Why is "cream of tartar" called what it is (it's not a cream, and never was)?

[Danny D.]

Why is "cream of tartar" called what it is (it's not a cream,
and never was)?

It's simply a dry acid, which is scraped off barrels of wine,
and used in baking, to make baking soda give off bubbles when
you're baking non-acidic ingredients (such as a cake).

Every description says they have no idea why it's called "cream",
as, for example, this description:
http://www.simplyrecipes.com/the_difference_between_baking_soda_and_baking_powder/

Do you English aficionados, who have more resources, have
a suggestion as to why it's called "cream" of tartar?

[Pierre Jelenc]

In article <m97j2q$bec$1...@dont-email.me>,

It's the "cream", i.e. the best, most purified part of crude tartar.

Pierre

--
Pierre Jelenc
The Gigometer www.gigometer.com
The NYC Beer Guide www.nycbeer.org

[Katy Jennison]

I haven't got time to look this up, as I'm about to dash out, but here's
a speculation: that it refers to the bubbles, or the foam, in the same
way that "crema" refers to the thin layer of foam on the top of a good
espresso.

(Happy to be proved wrong.)

--
Katy Jennison

[Steve Hayes]

On Thu, 15 Jan 2015 05:26:50 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D." <dannyd...@gmail.com>
wrote:

One thing that I've wondered about is why baobab trees are sometimes called
"cream of tartar" trees.


--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

[Mark Brader]

Danny Di Amico:

>> Why is "cream of tartar" called what it is (it's not a cream,
>> and never was)?

I looked in the OED Online, but it doesn't have an explanation. However,
among the definitions listed for "cream" are:

# 2c. The part of a liquid which gathers on the top like the cream
# on milk; a 'head' of scum, froth, etc.

and

# 3. fig. The most excellent element or part; the best of its kind;
# the choice part; the quintessence.

Since cream of tartar is the purified form of crude tartar, Pierre Jelenc's
suggestion in another posting that it comes from sense 3 makes sense to me.
Depending on the process that was used to purify it when it was first
discovered, sense 2c also seems possible.


Steve Hayes:

> One thing that I've wondered about is why baobab trees are sometimes called
> "cream of tartar" trees.

The OED does cover that one. The name was first applied to an
Australian relative of the baobab and, according to John Lindley and
Thomas Moore in a 19th century book about botany, "the pulp of its
fruit has an agreeable acid taste, like cream of tartar".
--
Mark Brader, Toronto "When you say 'non-trivial', can you
m...@vex.net quantify that for me?" --Kate Hamilton

My text in this article is in the public domain.

[Guy Barry]

"Mark Brader" wrote in message
news:s9SdnRAhgrDQLSrJ...@vex.net...

>I looked in the OED Online, but it doesn't have an explanation. However,
>among the definitions listed for "cream" are:
>
># 2c. The part of a liquid which gathers on the top like the cream
># on milk; a 'head' of scum, froth, etc.
>
>and
>
># 3. fig. The most excellent element or part; the best of its kind;
># the choice part; the quintessence.

This brings to mind another puzzling use of "cream", as in "cream of chicken
soup" or "cream of tomato soup". It doesn't, as far as I know, refer to the
best part of the chicken or tomato, nor to some liquid that gathers on top
of chickens or tomatoes; it refers to the cream on milk, which is added to
the soup. So why the "of"?

--
Guy Barry

[Richard Tobin]

In article <m97rlq$624$1...@reader1.panix.com>,

Pierre Jelenc <rc...@panix.com> wrote:

>>Do you English aficionados, who have more resources, have
>>a suggestion as to why it's called "cream" of tartar?

>It's the "cream", i.e. the best, most purified part of crude tartar.

And it's white, unlike the raw material:

(OED under "tartar")

a. Chem. Bitartrate of potash (acid potassium tartrate), present in
grape juice, deposited in a crude form in the process of
fermentation, and adhering to the sides of wine-casks in the form of
a hard crust, also called argal or argol, which in the crude
state varies from pale pink to dark red, but when purified forms
white crystals, which are cream of tartar.

-- Richard

[spuorg...@gowanhill.com]

On Thursday, 15 January 2015 14:07:27 UTC, Guy Barry wrote:
> This brings to mind another puzzling use of "cream", as in "cream of chicken
> soup" or "cream of tomato soup". It doesn't, as far as I know, refer to the
> best part of the chicken or tomato, nor to some liquid that gathers on top
> of chickens or tomatoes; it refers to the cream on milk, which is added to
> the soup. So why the "of"?

Possibly a combination of it being a luxury form of chicken soup as it has cream added, or having a smooth and creamy texture rather than a lumpy broth?

Cf. "cream of wheat"

Owain

[Iain Archer]

Pierre Jelenc <rc...@panix.com> wrote on Thu, 15 Jan 2015 at 07:53:30:
>In article <m97j2q$bec$1...@dont-email.me>,
>Danny D. <dannyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>Why is "cream of tartar" called what it is (it's not a cream,
>>and never was)?
>>
>>It's simply a dry acid, which is scraped off barrels of wine,
>>and used in baking, to make baking soda give off bubbles when
>>you're baking non-acidic ingredients (such as a cake).
>>
>>Every description says they have no idea why it's called "cream",
>>as, for example, this description:
>>http://www.simplyrecipes.com/the_difference_between_baking_soda_and_bak
>>ing_powder/
>>
>>Do you English aficionados, who have more resources, have
>>a suggestion as to why it's called "cream" of tartar?
>
>It's the "cream", i.e. the best, most purified part of crude tartar.
>

It looks so.

"Cream of Tartar, called also crystals of tartar, in pharmacy, a
preparation
of tartar made in the following manner:
Take any quantity of crude tartar, boil it in water, till the parts
which are
capable of solution be entirely dissolved; filter the liquor whilst hot
through a flaunel bag into an earthen-pan, and evaporate till a pellicle
appears, then set it in a cold place, and suffer it to stand quietly two
or
three days: afterwards decant the fluid, and the crystals will be found
adhering to the pan: scrape them off, and evaporate the fluid as before,
and set it again to crystallise, and repeat the operation till all the
crystals
are formed. Cream of tartar is a gentle purge. It attenuates and
resolves
tough humours, and is good against obstructions of the viscera, and in
cachectic complaints. It is also a good adjunct to chalybeate
medicines."

--- The Complete Dictionary of Arts and Sciences in which the whole
Circle of Human Learning is explained, and the Difficulties attending
the Acquisition of Every Art, Whether Liberal or Mechanical, are
Removed, in the Most Easy and Familiar Manner, Croker, Rev Temple Henry;
Williams, Thomas; Clark, Samuel; London, 1764


"TARTAR (Chem.) the concretion which fixes to the inside of hogsheads
containing wine; when purified it is perfectly white, and shootrs out
crystals of tartar consisting of a peculiar acid, called tartaric acid,
imperfectly
saturated with potash: it is, therefor, a super-tartrate of alkali,
which, when
powdered, is the cream of tartar of the shop."

--- Universal Technological Dictionary Or Familiar Explanation of the
Terms Used in All Arts And Science, Volume 2
By George Crabb, London, 1823


I did look for other "cream of" instances, but the only one I found was
the following. In this case it clearly comes from its cream-like
consistency. Is it possible that cream of tartar may originally have
been sometimes obtained and used in a semi-liquid state? Further
research is needed.

"Although ptisans may be made with various kinds of corn, yet when
ptisan is ordered, it is supposed to be made of barley. If this
decoction was given with the barley in it, it was called whole ptisan;
if the water was strained from the barley, it was then called juice of
ptisan; and when it was boiled to a greater thickness, it was called
cream of ptisan, which is made at this day in another manner, namely, by
pressing the boiled barley with a wooden spoon through a hair sieve, and
then mixing it with the decoction. Thus a barley pap is made which has
the consistence of cream, and affords a mild, moist, softening food,
that does not putrefy."

--- An Abridgement of Baron Van Swieten's Commentaries Upon the
Aphorisms of Dr Herman Boerhaave Concerning the Knowledge and Cure of
Diseases. Vol IV, Colin Hossack MD of Colchester, London, 1775
--
Iain Archer

[Mark Brader]

Guy Barry:

> This brings to mind another puzzling use of "cream", as in "cream of chicken
> soup" or "cream of tomato soup". It doesn't, as far as I know, refer to the
> best part of the chicken or tomato, nor to some liquid that gathers on top
> of chickens or tomatoes; it refers to the cream on milk, which is added to
> the soup. So why the "of"?

I would have thought it obvious that the soup formed by adding cream (in
the dairy sense) is itself being considered a cream (in a more general
sense) -- so it's a cream made of chicken (or tomato).
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | Actor sent to jail for not finishing sentence
m...@vex.net | --Knoxville, TN, News-Sentinel, 1989-01-21

[Guy Barry]

"Mark Brader" wrote in message

news:5_6dnXZm3paF9iXJ...@vex.net...

>
>Guy Barry:
>> This brings to mind another puzzling use of "cream", as in "cream of
>> chicken
>> soup" or "cream of tomato soup". It doesn't, as far as I know, refer to
>> the
>> best part of the chicken or tomato, nor to some liquid that gathers on
>> top
>> of chickens or tomatoes; it refers to the cream on milk, which is added
>> to
>> the soup. So why the "of"?
>
>I would have thought it obvious that the soup formed by adding cream (in
>the dairy sense) is itself being considered a cream (in a more general
>sense) -- so it's a cream made of chicken (or tomato).

Oh, I'd always parsed it as [[cream of chicken] soup] rather than [cream of
[chicken soup]] - in other words I've always regarded it as a type of soup,
rather than a type of cream. Can a soup also be a cream?

--
Guy Barry

[Guy Barry]

"Mark Brader" wrote in message

news:5_6dnXZm3paF9iXJ...@vex.net...

>
>Guy Barry:
>> This brings to mind another puzzling use of "cream", as in "cream of
>> chicken
>> soup" or "cream of tomato soup". It doesn't, as far as I know, refer to
>> the
>> best part of the chicken or tomato, nor to some liquid that gathers on
>> top
>> of chickens or tomatoes; it refers to the cream on milk, which is added
>> to
>> the soup. So why the "of"?
>
>I would have thought it obvious that the soup formed by adding cream (in
>the dairy sense) is itself being considered a cream (in a more general
>sense) -- so it's a cream made of chicken (or tomato).

A friend of mine came up with a different explanation - that the soup was
originally made from creamed chicken (i.e. chicken blended to the
consistency of cream), and that the addition of dairy cream was a later
development. I've no idea if this is true though.

--
Guy Barry

[Iain Archer]

Guy Barry <guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote on Sat, 17 Jan 2015 at
12:55:17:

It looks possible.

From The Lady's Own Cookery Book and New Dinner-Table Directory,
London, 1844 [via GG]

p.163 "Cream of Chicken, or Fowl,

"For this purpose fowls are preferable, because the breasts are larger.
Take two chickens, cut off the breast, and roast them; the remainder put
in a stewpan with two pounds of the sinewy part of a knuckle of veal.
Boil the whole together to make a little clear good broth: when the
breasts are roasted, and your broth made, take all the white of the
breast, put it in a small stewpan, and add to it the broth clean and
clear. It will be better to cut the white of the chickens quite fine,
and, when you find that it is boiled soft, proceed in the same manner as
for cream of rice and pass it. Just in the same way, make it of the
thickness you judge proper, and warm in the same manner as the cream of
rice: put in a little salt if it is approved of."

p.259 "Cream of Rice.

"Wash and well clean some very good rice; put it into a stewpan, with
water, and boil it gently till quite soft, with a little cinnamon, if
agreeable to the taste. When the rice is boiled quite soft, take out the
cinnamon. Then take a large dish, and set it on a table: have a clean
tamis—a new one would be better—a tamis is only the piece of flannel
commonly used in kitchens for passing sauces through—and give one end
of the tamis to a person on the opposite side of the table to hold,
while you hold the other end with your left hand. Having a large wooden
spoon in your right, you put two or three spoonfuls of boiled rice into
this tamis, which is held over the large dish, and rub the rice upon it
with the spoon till it passes through into the dish. Whatever sticks to
the tamis take off with a silver spoon and put into the dish. When you
have passed the quantity you want, put it in a basin. It should be made
fresh every day. Warm it for use in a small silver or tin saucepan,
adding a little sugar and Madeira, according to your taste."
--
Iain Archer

[Dr Nick]

Iain Archer <iane...@gmail.com> writes:

> From The Lady's Own Cookery Book and New Dinner-Table Directory,
> London, 1844 [via GG]
>
> p.163 "Cream of Chicken, or Fowl,
>
> "For this purpose fowls are preferable, because the breasts are
> larger. Take two chickens, cut off the breast, and roast them; the
> remainder put in a stewpan with two pounds of the sinewy part of a
> knuckle of veal. Boil the whole together to make a little clear good
> broth: when the breasts are roasted, and your broth made, take all the
> white of the breast, put it in a small stewpan, and add to it the
> broth clean and clear. It will be better to cut the white of the
> chickens quite fine, and, when you find that it is boiled soft,
> proceed in the same manner as for cream of rice and pass it. Just in
> the same way, make it of the thickness you judge proper, and warm in
> the same manner as the cream of rice: put in a little salt if it is
> approved of."

Wow! Two (breastless) chickens and two pounds of veal to make "a little
clear good broth".

How many farms worth would you need to make a reasonable quantity?

[Pat Durkin]

"Katy Jennison" wrote in message
news:m9877j$fjm$1...@news.albasani.net...

No proof, of course, but there is Bailey's Irish, and crème de cacao,
etc. (just to stray a bit).

-- Pat Durkin
durkinpa at msn.com
Wisconsin



---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
http://www.avast.com

[Mike L]

On Mon, 2 Feb 2015 23:56:30 -0600, "Pat Durkin" <durk...@msn.com>
wrote:

>"Katy Jennison" wrote in message
>news:m9877j$fjm$1...@news.albasani.net...
>
>On 15/01/2015 05:26, Danny D. wrote:
>> Why is "cream of tartar" called what it is (it's not a cream,
>> and never was)?
>>
>> It's simply a dry acid, which is scraped off barrels of wine,
>> and used in baking, to make baking soda give off bubbles when
>> you're baking non-acidic ingredients (such as a cake).
>>
>> Every description says they have no idea why it's called "cream",
>> as, for example, this description:
>> http://www.simplyrecipes.com/the_difference_between_baking_soda_and_baking_powder/
>>
>> Do you English aficionados, who have more resources, have
>> a suggestion as to why it's called "cream" of tartar?
>>
>
>I haven't got time to look this up, as I'm about to dash out, but
>here's
>a speculation: that it refers to the bubbles, or the foam, in the same
>way that "crema" refers to the thin layer of foam on the top of a good
>espresso.
>
>(Happy to be proved wrong.)
>
>No proof, of course, but there is Bailey's Irish, and crème de cacao,
>etc. (just to stray a bit).

It was tartaric acid precipitated during wine-making: so presumably
"cream" in the sense of a minority white substance that separates
itself from the bulk. Presumably now made industrially. A "darker"
flavour than citric, I found when I used to make country wine.

--
Mike.

[lokim...@gmail.com]

In doing some looking around, I realized that "cream of tartar" seems to refer to the process of creating it. Tartaric acid is a byproduct of wine making, and forms at the top of a barrel of wine. This "cream" is scraped off and processed to make "cream of tartar". Now, I'm not 100% on this, but it seems to be the answer after looking at dozens of "cream of tartar" articles.

[Pierre Jelenc]

In article <7b22dd03-0694-474a...@googlegroups.com>,

<lokim...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thursday, January 15, 2015 at 6:27:21 AM UTC+1, Danny D. wrote:
> Why is "cream of tartar" called what it is (it's not a cream,
> and never was)?

Ah, but it is! It's the cream, i.e. the best, purest fraction of tartar.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cream
(def. #3)

[Don Phillipson]

On Thursday, January 15, 2015 at 6:27:21 AM UTC+1, Danny D. wrote:

> Why is "cream of tartar" called what it is (it's not a cream,
> and never was)?

Potassium bichromate was supplied in children's chemistry sets
(and sold at grocery stores) 1900-75 and usually labeled "cream
of tartar" because of its off-white colour. Most acids were sold in
liquid form but cream of tartar was fine crystals (like salt or sugar.)
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

[Jerry Friedman]

On Thursday, December 1, 2016 at 1:34:10 PM UTC-7, Don Phillipson wrote:
> On Thursday, January 15, 2015 at 6:27:21 AM UTC+1, Danny D. wrote:
>
> > Why is "cream of tartar" called what it is (it's not a cream,
> > and never was)?
>
> Potassium bichromate was supplied in children's chemistry sets
> (and sold at grocery stores) 1900-75 and usually labeled "cream
> of tartar" because of its off-white colour. Most acids were sold in
> liquid form but cream of tartar was fine crystals (like salt or sugar.)

I hope that's your error for "potassium bitartrate" and people weren't
selling potassium bichromate under a name that suggested edibility.

--
Jerry Friedman

[glyn...@hotmail.com]

I always assumed that this "cream of" refered to its smooth creamy texture. Also, there is the old slang expression "we creamed them" meaning that our team crushed/smashed the opponents.

[Peter Young]

Half of the answer is here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cream_of_tartar

but only half.

Peter.

--
Peter Young, (BrE, RP), Consultant Anaesthetist, 1975-2004.
(US equivalent: Certified Anesthesiologist) (AUE Pt)
Cheltenham and Gloucester, UK. Now happily retired.
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk

[Joy Beeson]

On Sat, 30 Sep 2017 10:16:15 -0700 (PDT), glyn...@hotmail.com wrote:

> Also, there is the old slang expression "we creamed them" meaning
> that our team crushed/smashed the opponents.

In the days before electric mixers, butter and sugar had to be creamed
together -- one crushed the mixture with the back of a spoon until it
acquired a smooth, uniform texture. The repeated folding and scraping
together also mixed a lot of air in, which helped the cake to rise.

Nowadays one just puts them into a mixer bowl and whips them
thoroughly.

--
Joy Beeson, U.S.A., mostly central Hoosier,
some Northern Indiana, Upstate New York, Florida, and Hawaii
joy beeson at comcast dot net http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/
The above message is a Usenet post.
I don't recall having given anyone permission to use it on a Web site.

[Robert Bannister]

On 1/10/17 12:16 pm, Joy Beeson wrote:
> On Sat, 30 Sep 2017 10:16:15 -0700 (PDT), glyn...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>> Also, there is the old slang expression "we creamed them" meaning
>> that our team crushed/smashed the opponents.
>
>
> In the days before electric mixers, butter and sugar had to be creamed
> together -- one crushed the mixture with the back of a spoon until it
> acquired a smooth, uniform texture. The repeated folding and scraping
> together also mixed a lot of air in, which helped the cake to rise.
>
> Nowadays one just puts them into a mixer bowl and whips them
> thoroughly.
>

We used to cream the butter and sugar with our hands. The warmth of our
hands helped soften the butter.

--
Robert B. born England a long time ago;
Western Australia since 1972

[occam]

Ooou! If Nigella Lawson had uttered that last sentence in one of her TV
programs, she would have been accused of being deliberately saucy with
intent to arouse.

[Peter Moylan]

I thought that that was the entire point of Nigella Lawson's shows. She
clearly has no culinary skills, and would probably not have been hired
if she had smaller breasts.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia

[Robert Bannister]

On 2/10/17 10:33 pm, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 02/10/17 19:41, occam wrote:
>> On 02/10/2017 01:08, Robert Bannister wrote:
>
>>> We used to cream the butter and sugar with our hands. The warmth of our
>>> hands helped soften the butter.
>>
>> Ooou!  If Nigella Lawson had uttered that last sentence in one of her TV
>> programs, she would have been accused of being deliberately saucy with
>> intent to arouse.
>
> I thought that that was the entire point of Nigella Lawson's shows. She
> clearly has no culinary skills, and would probably not have been hired
> if she had smaller breasts.
>

I always thought she made things that I wouldn't mind cooking myself,
unlike the other chefs who make weird things and present them in an even
weirder way.

[occam]

On 02/10/2017 16:33, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 02/10/17 19:41, occam wrote:
>> On 02/10/2017 01:08, Robert Bannister wrote:
>
>>> We used to cream the butter and sugar with our hands. The warmth of our
>>> hands helped soften the butter.
>>
>> Ooou!  If Nigella Lawson had uttered that last sentence in one of her TV
>> programs, she would have been accused of being deliberately saucy with
>> intent to arouse.
>
> I thought that that was the entire point of Nigella Lawson's shows. She
> clearly has no culinary skills, and would probably not have been hired
> if she had smaller breasts.
>

Aaaww... that's harsh. There are a lot of busty women (and men) out
there who will not be hired for lack of culinary skills. She clearly
appeals to certain demographic of men who enjoy the soft porn of
watching cream being whipped and licked off fingers in the presence of
their wife, pretending all the while that they are watching a cookery
program. I've watched a highly entertaining spoof of her show, which is
where I get my caricature impressions.

[occam]

Here's one 'compilation' example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtS2Ikk7A9I

[Quinn C]

* occam:

> On 02/10/2017 16:33, Peter Moylan wrote:
>> On 02/10/17 19:41, occam wrote:
>>> On 02/10/2017 01:08, Robert Bannister wrote:
>>
>>>> We used to cream the butter and sugar with our hands. The warmth of our
>>>> hands helped soften the butter.
>>>
>>> Ooou!  If Nigella Lawson had uttered that last sentence in one of her TV
>>> programs, she would have been accused of being deliberately saucy with
>>> intent to arouse.
>>
>> I thought that that was the entire point of Nigella Lawson's shows. She
>> clearly has no culinary skills, and would probably not have been hired
>> if she had smaller breasts.
>
> Aaaww... that's harsh. There are a lot of busty women (and men) out
> there who will not be hired for lack of culinary skills.

Who'd want to see busty men?

--
...an explanatory principle - like "gravity" or "instinct" -
really explains nothing. It’s a sort of conventional agreement
between scientists to stop trying to explain things at a
certain point. -- Gregory Bateson

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

On 2017-10-03 10:09:20 +0000, occam said:

> On 03/10/2017 11:50, occam wrote:
>> On 02/10/2017 16:33, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>> On 02/10/17 19:41, occam wrote:
>>>> On 02/10/2017 01:08, Robert Bannister wrote:
>>>
>>>>> We used to cream the butter and sugar with our hands. The warmth of our
>>>>> hands helped soften the butter.
>>>>
>>>> Ooou!  If Nigella Lawson had uttered that last sentence in one of her TV
>>>> programs, she would have been accused of being deliberately saucy with
>>>> intent to arouse.
>>>
>>> I thought that that was the entire point of Nigella Lawson's shows. She
>>> clearly has no culinary skills, and would probably not have been hired
>>> if she had smaller breasts.
>>>
>>
>> Aaaww... that's harsh. There are a lot of busty women (and men

Busty men? Not a lot of those in television.

>> ) out
>> there who will not be hired for lack of culinary skills. She clearly
>> appeals to certain demographic of men who enjoy the soft porn of
>> watching cream being whipped and licked off fingers in the presence of
>> their wife, pretending all the while that they are watching a cookery
>> program. I've watched a highly entertaining spoof of her show, which is
>> where I get my caricature impressions.
>>
>
> Here's one 'compilation' example:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtS2Ikk7A9I

Not about breasts, but about eyes:

Since we first noticed we've been increasingly struck by the proportion
of the people who appear regularly on television, as well as actors in
films made for television, with blue eyes. I asked my wife if she could
think of anyone with blue eyes among the people we see every day at
lunch, and she could think of just one. When we checked the eyes in
question, yes, they are blue, but more grey than bright blue, and yes,
the owner of the eyes agreed that she was probably the only one, or one
of very few. OK, we live on the Mediterranean, and it might be
different further north, but many of the people who work at the CNRS
come from further north anyway. On television, however, many people
have bright blue eyes, and others have eyes closer to the blue end of
the scale than to the brown.

I'm referring to my own experience, of course, i.e. to French
television, but I wonder if it's the same elsewhere.




--
athel

[occam]

On 05/10/2017 09:10, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> On 2017-10-03 10:09:20 +0000, occam said:
>
>> On 03/10/2017 11:50, occam wrote:
>>> On 02/10/2017 16:33, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>>> On 02/10/17 19:41, occam wrote:
>>>>> On 02/10/2017 01:08, Robert Bannister wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> We used to cream the butter and sugar with our hands. The warmth
>>>>>> of our
>>>>>> hands helped soften the butter.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ooou!  If Nigella Lawson had uttered that last sentence in one of
>>>>> her TV
>>>>> programs, she would have been accused of being deliberately saucy with
>>>>> intent to arouse.
>>>>
>>>> I thought that that was the entire point of Nigella Lawson's shows. She
>>>> clearly has no culinary skills, and would probably not have been hired
>>>> if she had smaller breasts.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Aaaww... that's harsh. There are a lot of busty women (and men
>
> Busty men? Not a lot of those in television.
>

I was jokingly referring to overweight chefs with 'moobs'.

(http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=moobs)

[Whiskers]

On 2017-10-05, Athel Cornish-Bowden <acor...@imm.cnrs.fr> wrote:

[...]

> Not about breasts, but about eyes:
>
> Since we first noticed we've been increasingly struck by the proportion
> of the people who appear regularly on television, as well as actors in
> films made for television, with blue eyes. I asked my wife if she could
> think of anyone with blue eyes among the people we see every day at
> lunch, and she could think of just one. When we checked the eyes in
> question, yes, they are blue, but more grey than bright blue, and yes,
> the owner of the eyes agreed that she was probably the only one, or one
> of very few. OK, we live on the Mediterranean, and it might be
> different further north, but many of the people who work at the CNRS
> come from further north anyway. On television, however, many people
> have bright blue eyes, and others have eyes closer to the blue end of
> the scale than to the brown.
>
> I'm referring to my own experience, of course, i.e. to French
> television, but I wonder if it's the same elsewhere.

I wonder if the lighting of the TV studio has anything to do with the
brightness and blueness of the eyes? There are also coloured contact
lenses which allow people to have almost any eye colour they want.

A rough count on a BBC news programme from London just scored 17 brown
pairs, and one each of grey black hazel and purple (and gold, silver,
and turquoise, from three parrots). I suspect the purple eyes were
contact lenses.

My own eyes look grey to me, but some people say they're blue.

--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~

[Peter T. Daniels]

Elizabeth Taylor was renowned for "violet" eyes. I never could tell.

> My own eyes look grey to me, but some people say they're blue.

"Blue" eyes are simply unpigmented eyes, so they should be seen with blond hair.
As are mine.

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

On 2017-10-05 12:56:06 +0000, Whiskers said:

> On 2017-10-05, Athel Cornish-Bowden <acor...@imm.cnrs.fr> wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>> Not about breasts, but about eyes:
>>
>> Since we first noticed we've been increasingly struck by the proportion
>> of the people who appear regularly on television, as well as actors in
>> films made for television, with blue eyes. I asked my wife if she could
>> think of anyone with blue eyes among the people we see every day at
>> lunch, and she could think of just one. When we checked the eyes in
>> question, yes, they are blue, but more grey than bright blue, and yes,
>> the owner of the eyes agreed that she was probably the only one, or one
>> of very few. OK, we live on the Mediterranean, and it might be
>> different further north, but many of the people who work at the CNRS
>> come from further north anyway. On television, however, many people
>> have bright blue eyes, and others have eyes closer to the blue end of
>> the scale than to the brown.
>>
>> I'm referring to my own experience, of course, i.e. to French
>> television, but I wonder if it's the same elsewhere.
>
> I wonder if the lighting of the TV studio has anything to do with the
> brightness and blueness of the eyes?

Possibly. I wondered about that.

> There are also coloured contact
> lenses which allow people to have almost any eye colour they want.

Apparently they explain why Ivanka Trump's eyes are not always the same colour.

>
> A rough count on a BBC news programme from London just scored 17 brown
> pairs, and one each of grey black hazel and purple (and gold, silver,
> and turquoise, from three parrots). I suspect the purple eyes were
> contact lenses.
>
> My own eyes look grey to me, but some people say they're blue.

Mine are approximately midway between brown and blue ("hazel"). My
wife's likewise. Our daughter had very dark brown eyes when she was a
child, but they've lightened a lot.

One of the reasons that this bothers me is that elementary accounts of
Mendel's laws give a definite impression that human eyes are either
clearly brown or clearly blue, whereas the reality is more complicated.

--
athel

[Cheryl]

Things are always simplified for schoolchildren. Inheritance of eye
colour is similar enough to Mendelian inheritance (one gene,
dominant/recessive) to be a decent although not perfect example of
Mendelian inheritance. In fact, more than one gene is involved, and once
that happens, things get complicated.

--
Cheryl

[Whiskers]

And the poor kids with curly leaves whose parents are both flat-leaved
end up confused or even distressed. 'School science' should never
mislead the pupils.

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

Yes, but unfortunately it's not just in books for schoolchildren.

> Inheritance of eye colour is similar enough to Mendelian inheritance
> (one gene, dominant/recessive) to be a decent although not perfect
> example of Mendelian inheritance. In fact, more than one gene is
> involved, and once that happens, things get complicated.


--

athel

[RH Draney]

On 10/5/2017 7:30 AM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>
> "Blue" eyes are simply unpigmented eyes, so they should be seen with blond hair.
> As are mine.

Unpigmented eyes are pink, not blue, as seen in albinos....

And bunnies....r

[snide...@gmail.com]

And eyecolor (for the pigmented irises) depend on variations
in the amount of melanin [1]
(and perhaps in the type of melanin ... I know that at least 2 shapes exist).

[1] as does hair color, except neon green and purple.

/dps

[J. J. Lodder]

Or even quite red, depending on light conditions,

Jan

[Cheryl]

Well, no, technically blue eyes lack pigment, or rather, they have low
levels of melanin, and the colour is due to Rayleigh scattering and not
blue pigment in the eyes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_color#Blue

--
Cheryl

[Cheryl]

It is extremely difficult to present something in terms simple enough
for beginners and at the same time entirely accurate.

It the case of the inheritance of eye colour, problems would really only
arise in trying to explain the very rare birth of a brown-eyed child to
two blue-eyed parents, or in explaining the occurrence of colours like
hazel that don't really fit the pattern anyway since they aren't really
blue or brown. I can't remember off-hand how my teachers explained hazel
eyes; they may have simply left them out of the discussion.

--
Cheryl

[RH Draney]

On 10/6/2017 3:06 AM, Cheryl wrote:
>
> It the case of the inheritance of eye colour, problems would really only
> arise in trying to explain the very rare birth of a brown-eyed child to
> two blue-eyed parents, or in explaining the occurrence of colours like
> hazel that don't really fit the pattern anyway since they aren't really
> blue or brown. I can't remember off-hand how my teachers explained hazel
> eyes; they may have simply left them out of the discussion.

How did they explain dichromatism, as in for example silent movie
actress Colleen Moore?...r

[Cheryl]

I don't think the subject ever came up.

--
Cheryl

[Snidely]

Friday, Cheryl quipped:

And albinos have even lower levels of pigmentation; the pink or red is
the result of seeing the red blood cells travelling through the
vessels.

/dps

--
"That's a good sort of hectic, innit?"

" Very much so, and I'd recommend the haggis wontons."
-njm

[Quinn C]

* Athel Cornish-Bowden:

> Since we first noticed we've been increasingly struck by the proportion
> of the people who appear regularly on television, as well as actors in
> films made for television, with blue eyes. I asked my wife if she could
> think of anyone with blue eyes among the people we see every day at
> lunch, and she could think of just one. When we checked the eyes in
> question, yes, they are blue, but more grey than bright blue, and yes,
> the owner of the eyes agreed that she was probably the only one, or one
> of very few. OK, we live on the Mediterranean, and it might be
> different further north, but many of the people who work at the CNRS
> come from further north anyway. On television, however, many people
> have bright blue eyes, and others have eyes closer to the blue end of
> the scale than to the brown.
>
> I'm referring to my own experience, of course, i.e. to French
> television, but I wonder if it's the same elsewhere.

It's quite possible that TV enhances the color somehow, but blue
(and green) eyes are certainly not a rarity in more northern
areas. Growing up in Germany, everyone in my family has blue or
green eyes, even my father with his "black" (by traditional German
standards) hair, and many of my friends had them, too, probably a
majority of those who were simply "German" with no "migration
background".

When a choir-mate recently got her own TV show, and we all watched
the first episode together, I noticed again - in a close-up - how
very light blue eyes freak me out. She's Irish.

<http://www.gustotv.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/flour-power.jpg>,
but the effect was certainly more striking in the video, which may
explain what you noticed. Probably the stark lighting. Her eyes
looked almost transparent in one scene.

My own eyes are described as "grey-blue" in my passport. It was
probably one of my parents filling out the form the first time
around, and has been copied over since. Comparing to others, I
don't think the "grey" specification is warranted. I'd name them
just blue, but that is certainly a fuzzy boundary. In fact, as a
child, I wondered what "grey eyes" are supposed to look like; I
only knew shades of blue, some clearer, some more dull.

I think this is about as blue as it gets, naturally (and allowing
for color distortions in bringing them onto a screen):
<https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5d/Deep_Blue_eye.jpg>

It was also never clear to me what "hazel eyes" refers to. The
standard translation to German is just "light brown", but when I
search for images of hazel eyes online, most examples are eyes
that are partly blue/green and partly brown, usually more brown
around the pupil. None were like my sister's, who has (or had as a
child, when I looked closely) green eyes with little yellow spots
(which were probably in fact brown, but lighter than the green.)

--
If Helen Keller is alone in the forest and falls down, does she
make a sound?

[Tony Cooper]

On Tue, 10 Oct 2017 13:56:18 -0400, Quinn C
<lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:

>It was also never clear to me what "hazel eyes" refers to. The
>standard translation to German is just "light brown", but when I
>search for images of hazel eyes online, most examples are eyes
>that are partly blue/green and partly brown, usually more brown
>around the pupil. None were like my sister's, who has (or had as a
>child, when I looked closely) green eyes with little yellow spots
>(which were probably in fact brown, but lighter than the green.)

I have dark brown eyes, but my brother has hazel eyes. They are light
brown and kinda mottled with green. While I come up short in
describing "hazel", it is an eye color that I can identify.

Our mother had brown eyes and our father had blue eyes. His were
rather pale blue normally, but would darken or lighten according to
his emotional state. It was a noticeable change. When angry, his
eyes would turn very pale blue and he looked as if he was looking at
something above and to the right. Yet, his focus would be straight
ahead.

My brother and I watched his eyes when we were in trouble. They let
us know if he was truly angry with us or just putting up the stern
father front.

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

[elena.k...@gmail.com]

четверг, 15 января 2015 г., 8:27:21 UTC+3 пользователь Danny D. написал:
> Why is "cream of tartar" called what it is (it's not a cream,
> and never was)?
>
> It's simply a dry acid, which is scraped off barrels of wine,
> and used in baking, to make baking soda give off bubbles when
> you're baking non-acidic ingredients (such as a cake).
>
> Every description says they have no idea why it's called "cream",
> as, for example, this description:
> http://www.simplyrecipes.com/the_difference_between_baking_soda_and_baking_powder/
>
> Do you English aficionados, who have more resources, have
> a suggestion as to why it's called "cream" of tartar?


Hi,

It actually comes from the Latin "cremor tartari", where "cremor" means "thick juice".

[CDB]

That is an interesting point. I see that the Spanish equivalent is
"crémor tártaro", where "tártaro" seems to be an adjective. Is there a
similar form in any Slavic languages?

[elena.k...@gmail.com]

понедельник, 23 декабря 2019 г., 22:12:22 UTC+3 пользователь CDB написал:

Well, in Russian there is a term "кремортартар" (kremortartar), which is obviously derived from the Latin "cremor tartari".
And in the Latin term, "tartari" is a genitive from "tartarum" - a Medieval Latin word, from which "tartar" is derived in European languages. Here is the etymology:

https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=Cream%20of%20tartar&fbclid=IwAR1nw98rhKT-OnJCcv1Dh2pS45bq2yXF-t7TC3OGOKChgZMTPrs7PaSrBII

So, the English term "cream of tartar" seems to be a literal translation from the Latin.

[bebe...@aol.com]

Very well, but why "cream"? It would seem the word is used in its sense
of "choicest part" (by M-W's definition), not for the consistency of
cream as one might expect.

Indeed, the cream of tartar is obtained after purification of "beeswing"
(M-W says: a film of shining scales of tartar formed in port and some
other wines after long keeping) and thus somehow constitutes the best part
(or the "cream") thereof.

[CDB]

On 12/23/2019 7:07 PM, elena.k...@gmail.com wrote:
> CDB написал:

>> elena.k...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> Danny D. написал:

>>>> Why is "cream of tartar" called what it is (it's not a cream,
>>>> and never was)?

>>>> It's simply a dry acid, which is scraped off barrels of wine,
>>>> and used in baking, to make baking soda give off bubbles when
>>>> you're baking non-acidic ingredients (such as a cake).

>>>> Every description says they have no idea why it's called
>>>> "cream", as, for example, this description:
>>>> http://www.simplyrecipes.com/the_difference_between_baking_soda_and_baking_powder/

Do you English aficionados, who have more resources, have
>>>> a suggestion as to why it's called "cream" of tartar?

>>> It actually comes from the Latin "cremor tartari", where
>>> "cremor" means "thick juice".

>> That is an interesting point. I see that the Spanish equivalent
>> is "crémor tártaro", where "tártaro" seems to be an adjective. Is
>> there a similar form in any Slavic languages?

> Well, in Russian there is a term "кремортартар" (kremortartar), which
> is obviously derived from the Latin "cremor tartari". And in the
> Latin term, "tartari" is a genitive from "tartarum" - a Medieval
> Latin word, from which "tartar" is derived in European languages.
> Here is the etymology:

> https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=Cream%20of%20tartar&fbclid=IwAR1nw98rhKT-OnJCcv1Dh2pS45bq2yXF-t7TC3OGOKChgZMTPrs7PaSrBII

Elena:

So, the English term "cream of tartar" seems to be a literal translation
from the Latin.

Yes, although "cream" seems more like a "faux ami" than an equivalent of
"cremor", unless Bebercito's explanation is right. It goes to show how
quickly terminology can spread when it's attached to a new product.

[Peter Moylan]

On 24/12/19 11:07, elena.k...@gmail.com wrote:

> понедельник, 23 декабря 2019 г., 22:12:22 UTC+3 пользователь CDB написал:

I was surprised to see that Russian, like English, has a "December" word
that means "tenth month". (I was also surprised to see a resurrection of
a 2015 thread, but that's a separate topic.) A little Googling showed me
that the Russian month names, like the English ones, are minor variants
of the Roman ones. Still, it was interesting to see that Russian has a
whole wealth of pre-Roman month names.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia