Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss
"cribhouse" (was: German commercial phonation, what is it?)
308 views
Skip to first unread message
Adam Funk
Jun 26, 2012, 5:30:05 AM6/26/12
to
On 2012-06-26, Dr. HotSalt wrote:
> On Jun 25, 4:30 am, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> On Jun 25, 2:26 am, "Dr. HotSalt" <alien8...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Yes, I know, it's "Latinized Greek". I note that those authorities
>> > that strictly deny "octopi" seem to be mainly British in origin, while
>> > those that allow it seem to be mainly American. As for me, "-es" is
>> > clumsy while "-odes" is just plain ugly.
>>
>> > Elsewhere you aver that languages are works in progress, and that
>> > you are loath to criticize "local usages". Please make up your mind.
>>
>> Since it's an ordinary English word, it ought to be treated as one:
>> octopuses.
>
> It's an "ordinary English word" only in the James Nicoll sense:
>
> "The problem with defending the purity of the English language is
> that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just
> borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down
> alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new
> vocabulary."
Curiously, googling "cribhouse" turns up mainly that quote (which is
the only place I recall ever seeing or hearing the word), although
with a bit more searching I find that it means "dive" or "brothel", so
there's a bit of redundancy, unless Nicoll thought a whorehouse whore
was better or worse than the other kinds.
--
The generation of random numbers is too important to be left to
chance. [Robert R. Coveyou]
> On Jun 25, 4:30 am, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> On Jun 25, 2:26 am, "Dr. HotSalt" <alien8...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Yes, I know, it's "Latinized Greek". I note that those authorities
>> > that strictly deny "octopi" seem to be mainly British in origin, while
>> > those that allow it seem to be mainly American. As for me, "-es" is
>> > clumsy while "-odes" is just plain ugly.
>>
>> > Elsewhere you aver that languages are works in progress, and that
>> > you are loath to criticize "local usages". Please make up your mind.
>>
>> Since it's an ordinary English word, it ought to be treated as one:
>> octopuses.
>
> It's an "ordinary English word" only in the James Nicoll sense:
>
> "The problem with defending the purity of the English language is
> that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just
> borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down
> alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new
> vocabulary."
Curiously, googling "cribhouse" turns up mainly that quote (which is
the only place I recall ever seeing or hearing the word), although
with a bit more searching I find that it means "dive" or "brothel", so
there's a bit of redundancy, unless Nicoll thought a whorehouse whore
was better or worse than the other kinds.
--
The generation of random numbers is too important to be left to
chance. [Robert R. Coveyou]
Brian M. Scott
Jun 26, 2012, 5:54:15 AM6/26/12
to
On Tue, 26 Jun 2012 10:30:05 +0100, Adam Funk
<a24...@ducksburg.com> wrote in
<news:t1cob9...@news.ducksburg.com> in
sci.lang,alt.usage.english,alt.religion.kibology:
> On 2012-06-26, Dr. HotSalt wrote:
>> On Jun 25, 4:30 am, "Peter T. Daniels"
>> <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
[...]
>>> Since it's an ordinary English word, it ought to be
>>> treated as one: octopuses.
>> It's an "ordinary English word" only in the James Nicoll sense:
>> "The problem with defending the purity of the English
>> language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse
>> whore. We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English
>> has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them
>> unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary."
Which means that at this point it's an ordinary English word
in any reasonable sense of the term.
> Curiously, googling "cribhouse" turns up mainly that quote
> (which is the only place I recall ever seeing or hearing
> the word), although with a bit more searching I find that
> it means "dive" or "brothel", so there's a bit of
> redundancy, unless Nicoll thought a whorehouse whore was
> better or worse than the other kinds.
The OED has a Dos Passos citation from 1930. I've long been
familiar with <crib> 'brothel; a room or shack used for
prosititution', which is attested in that sense from 1882 in
the Sydney Slang Dictionary and in the sense 'low dive' from
~1857; the OED says that it's chiefly U.S. I think that
James's line was my first encounter with <cribhouse>; I took
it to refer to a brothel as a whole, distinguishing it from
the individual cribs.
Brian
<a24...@ducksburg.com> wrote in
<news:t1cob9...@news.ducksburg.com> in
sci.lang,alt.usage.english,alt.religion.kibology:
> On 2012-06-26, Dr. HotSalt wrote:
>> On Jun 25, 4:30 am, "Peter T. Daniels"
>> <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>> Since it's an ordinary English word, it ought to be
>>> treated as one: octopuses.
>> It's an "ordinary English word" only in the James Nicoll sense:
>> "The problem with defending the purity of the English
>> language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse
>> whore. We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English
>> has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them
>> unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary."
in any reasonable sense of the term.
> Curiously, googling "cribhouse" turns up mainly that quote
> (which is the only place I recall ever seeing or hearing
> the word), although with a bit more searching I find that
> it means "dive" or "brothel", so there's a bit of
> redundancy, unless Nicoll thought a whorehouse whore was
> better or worse than the other kinds.
familiar with <crib> 'brothel; a room or shack used for
prosititution', which is attested in that sense from 1882 in
the Sydney Slang Dictionary and in the sense 'low dive' from
~1857; the OED says that it's chiefly U.S. I think that
James's line was my first encounter with <cribhouse>; I took
it to refer to a brothel as a whole, distinguishing it from
the individual cribs.
Brian
Message has been deleted
Peter Brooks
Jun 26, 2012, 1:21:30 PM6/26/12
to
On Jun 26, 8:18 pm, Lewis <g.kr...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
> In message <c1sq0p0g8t2b$.1lwkjf37v2b0....@40tude.net>
> And while I would not attest to the relative quality, surely a brothel
> whore is not the same as, say, a streetwalker.
>
Why not? It could be exactly the same person - streetwalker in summer
but brothel whore in winter for the warmth.
> In message <c1sq0p0g8t2b$.1lwkjf37v2b0....@40tude.net>
> whore is not the same as, say, a streetwalker.
>
Why not? It could be exactly the same person - streetwalker in summer
but brothel whore in winter for the warmth.
tony cooper
Jun 26, 2012, 2:27:00 PM6/26/12
to
streetwalker generally has a pimp that looks after her interests to
some extent. He is supposed to protect her from aggressive clients,
bail her out of jail, and make sure no competitor infringes her
territory. The brothel madame has a similar job description.
Neither the pimp nor the madame would look kindly to a seasonal
employee.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Adam Funk
Jun 26, 2012, 3:06:20 PM6/26/12
to
On 2012-06-26, Lewis wrote:
> Brian M. Scott <b.s...@csuohio.edu> wrote:
to brothels, don't they? That suggests that people think there's a
substantial difference. I guess Nicoll's point was that English could
be even more impure.
--
Master Foo said: "A man who mistakes secrets for knowledge is like
a man who, seeking light, hugs a candle so closely that he smothers
it and burns his hand." --- Eric Raymond
> Brian M. Scott <b.s...@csuohio.edu> wrote:
>> On Tue, 26 Jun 2012 10:30:05 +0100, Adam Funk wrote:
>>> Curiously, googling "cribhouse" turns up mainly that quote
>>> (which is the only place I recall ever seeing or hearing
>>> the word), although with a bit more searching I find that
>>> it means "dive" or "brothel", so there's a bit of
>>> redundancy, unless Nicoll thought a whorehouse whore was
>>> better or worse than the other kinds.
>
>> The OED has a Dos Passos citation from 1930. I've long been
>> familiar with <crib> 'brothel; a room or shack used for
>> prosititution', which is attested in that sense from 1882 in
>> the Sydney Slang Dictionary and in the sense 'low dive' from
>> ~1857; the OED says that it's chiefly U.S. I think that
>> James's line was my first encounter with <cribhouse>; I took
>> it to refer to a brothel as a whole, distinguishing it from
>> the individual cribs.
>
>>> Curiously, googling "cribhouse" turns up mainly that quote
>>> (which is the only place I recall ever seeing or hearing
>>> the word), although with a bit more searching I find that
>>> it means "dive" or "brothel", so there's a bit of
>>> redundancy, unless Nicoll thought a whorehouse whore was
>>> better or worse than the other kinds.
>
>> The OED has a Dos Passos citation from 1930. I've long been
>> familiar with <crib> 'brothel; a room or shack used for
>> prosititution', which is attested in that sense from 1882 in
>> the Sydney Slang Dictionary and in the sense 'low dive' from
>> ~1857; the OED says that it's chiefly U.S. I think that
>> James's line was my first encounter with <cribhouse>; I took
>> it to refer to a brothel as a whole, distinguishing it from
>> the individual cribs.
>
> And while I would not attest to the relative quality, surely a brothel
> whore is not the same as, say, a streetwalker.
Most places that have legalized prostitution restrict the legal kind
> whore is not the same as, say, a streetwalker.
to brothels, don't they? That suggests that people think there's a
substantial difference. I guess Nicoll's point was that English could
be even more impure.
--
Master Foo said: "A man who mistakes secrets for knowledge is like
a man who, seeking light, hugs a candle so closely that he smothers
it and burns his hand." --- Eric Raymond
Dr. HotSalt
Jun 26, 2012, 8:54:07 PM6/26/12
to
On Jun 26, 2:54 am, "Brian M. Scott" <b.sc...@csuohio.edu> wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Jun 2012 10:30:05 +0100, Adam Funk
> <a24...@ducksburg.com> wrote in
> <news:t1cob9...@news.ducksburg.com> in
> sci.lang,alt.usage.english,alt.religion.kibology:
>
> > On 2012-06-26, Dr. HotSalt wrote:
> >> On Jun 25, 4:30 am, "Peter T. Daniels"
> >> <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> >>> Since it's an ordinary English word, it ought to be
> >>> treated as one: octopuses.
> >> It's an "ordinary English word" only in the James Nicoll sense:
> >> "The problem with defending the purity of the English
> >> language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse
> >> whore. We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English
> >> has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them
> >> unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary."
>
> Which means that at this point it's an ordinary English word
> in any reasonable sense of the term.
Yep, and is pluralized as a given English speaker sees fit.
> On Tue, 26 Jun 2012 10:30:05 +0100, Adam Funk
> <a24...@ducksburg.com> wrote in
> <news:t1cob9...@news.ducksburg.com> in
> sci.lang,alt.usage.english,alt.religion.kibology:
>
> > On 2012-06-26, Dr. HotSalt wrote:
> >> On Jun 25, 4:30 am, "Peter T. Daniels"
> >> <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> >>> Since it's an ordinary English word, it ought to be
> >>> treated as one: octopuses.
> >> It's an "ordinary English word" only in the James Nicoll sense:
> >> "The problem with defending the purity of the English
> >> language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse
> >> whore. We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English
> >> has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them
> >> unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary."
>
> Which means that at this point it's an ordinary English word
> in any reasonable sense of the term.
English (as used) is messy.
> > Curiously, googling "cribhouse" turns up mainly that quote
> > (which is the only place I recall ever seeing or hearing
> > the word), although with a bit more searching I find that
> > it means "dive" or "brothel", so there's a bit of
> > redundancy, unless Nicoll thought a whorehouse whore was
> > better or worse than the other kinds.
but I knew the word decades ago.
> The OED has a Dos Passos citation from 1930. I've long been
> familiar with <crib> 'brothel; a room or shack used for
> prosititution', which is attested in that sense from 1882 in
> the Sydney Slang Dictionary and in the sense 'low dive' from
> ~1857; the OED says that it's chiefly U.S. I think that
> James's line was my first encounter with <cribhouse>; I took
> it to refer to a brothel as a whole, distinguishing it from
> the individual cribs.
elsethread); a cribhouse whore operates out of an establishment (with
an assumed reputation to uphold) as opposed to a streetwalker.
Dr. HotSalt
Jerry Friedman
Jun 26, 2012, 10:10:56 PM6/26/12
to
On Jun 26, 6:54 pm, "Dr. HotSalt" <alien8...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jun 26, 2:54 am, "Brian M. Scott" <b.sc...@csuohio.edu> wrote:
...
> On Jun 26, 2:54 am, "Brian M. Scott" <b.sc...@csuohio.edu> wrote:
> > The OED has a Dos Passos citation from 1930. I've long been
> > familiar with <crib> 'brothel; a room or shack used for
> > prosititution', which is attested in that sense from 1882 in
> > the Sydney Slang Dictionary and in the sense 'low dive' from
> > ~1857; the OED says that it's chiefly U.S. I think that
> > James's line was my first encounter with <cribhouse>; I took
> > it to refer to a brothel as a whole, distinguishing it from
> > the individual cribs.
>
> That's the meaning I'm familiar with (as Tony Cooper noted
> elsethread); a cribhouse whore operates out of an establishment (with
> an assumed reputation to uphold) as opposed to a streetwalker.
--
Jerry Friedman
tony cooper
Jun 27, 2012, 12:26:18 AM6/27/12
to
mean "where I live"? Respectable young adults, too.
Peter Moylan
Jun 27, 2012, 3:59:36 AM6/27/12
to
streetwalkers aren't.
Besides, someone who managed to get employment in a brothel would hardly
want to go down-market again.
--
Peter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org
For an e-mail address, see my web page.
![Peter Duncanson [BrE]'s profile photo](http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjU1GGYFBCZgBCNB-pRgkosMu-ej0qpnECw3jc8uGYOTiF8a=s40-c)
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Jun 27, 2012, 7:49:23 AM6/27/12
to
This (from Houghton Mifflin) does not include the whorehouse sense:
http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/entry/crib
crib
NOUN:
1. A bed with high sides for a young child or baby.
2. a. A small building, usually with slatted sides, for storing
corn.
b. A rack or trough for fodder; a manger.
c. A stall for cattle.
3. A small crude cottage or room.
4. Slang One's home.
5. A framework to support or strengthen a mine or shaft.
6. A wicker basket.
7. a. A petty theft.
b. Plagiarism.
c. See pony.
8. Games A set of cards made up from discards by each player in
cribbage, used by the dealer.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/crib
3.
a : a small narrow room or dwelling : hut, shack
b : a room or shack used for prostitution
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Adam Funk
Jun 27, 2012, 12:16:03 PM6/27/12
to
On 2012-06-27, Peter Duncanson [BrE] wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Jun 2012 00:26:18 -0400, tony cooper
><tony.co...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>Has anyone mentioned that "crib" is a term used by young adults to
>>mean "where I live"? Respectable young adults, too.
>
> That usage may not have come from the whorehouse meaning of crib.
I think the "where I live" & "brothel" meanings both comes from
> On Wed, 27 Jun 2012 00:26:18 -0400, tony cooper
><tony.co...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>Has anyone mentioned that "crib" is a term used by young adults to
>>mean "where I live"? Respectable young adults, too.
>
> That usage may not have come from the whorehouse meaning of crib.
earlier ones.
The OED doesn't have a separate entry for "cribhouse" but lists it
under 3d: "slang (chiefly U.S.). A saloon, ‘low dive’, or
brothel. Also crib-house, crib-joint." with citations from 1857,
whereas 3a "A small habitation, cabin, hovel; a narrow room" goes back
to 1600 (Shakespeare).
--
No right of private conversation was enumerated in the Constitution.
I don't suppose it occurred to anyone at the time that it could be
prevented. [Whitfield Diffie]
benl...@ihug.co.nz
Jun 27, 2012, 5:38:01 PM6/27/12
to
On Jun 28, 4:16 am, Adam Funk <a24...@ducksburg.com> wrote:
> On 2012-06-27, Peter Duncanson [BrE] wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 27 Jun 2012 00:26:18 -0400, tony cooper
> ><tony.cooper...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>Has anyone mentioned that "crib" is a term used by young adults to
> >>mean "where I live"? Respectable young adults, too.
>
> > That usage may not have come from the whorehouse meaning of crib.
>
> I think the "where I live" & "brothel" meanings both comes from
> earlier ones.
>
> The OED doesn't have a separate entry for "cribhouse" but lists it
> under 3d: "slang (chiefly U.S.). A saloon, ‘low dive’, or
> brothel. Also crib-house, crib-joint." with citations from 1857,
> whereas 3a "A small habitation, cabin, hovel; a narrow room" goes back
> to 1600 (Shakespeare).
And COHA has just one citation, where it's clearly nothing to do with
> On 2012-06-27, Peter Duncanson [BrE] wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 27 Jun 2012 00:26:18 -0400, tony cooper
> ><tony.cooper...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>Has anyone mentioned that "crib" is a term used by young adults to
> >>mean "where I live"? Respectable young adults, too.
>
> > That usage may not have come from the whorehouse meaning of crib.
>
> I think the "where I live" & "brothel" meanings both comes from
> earlier ones.
>
> The OED doesn't have a separate entry for "cribhouse" but lists it
> under 3d: "slang (chiefly U.S.). A saloon, ‘low dive’, or
> brothel. Also crib-house, crib-joint." with citations from 1857,
> whereas 3a "A small habitation, cabin, hovel; a narrow room" goes back
> to 1600 (Shakespeare).
prostitution:
OSCAR GRAHAM We're hard-working folks, We go to sleep early, Mr.
Sawyer. OLD MAN Yes, sir.
OSCAR GRAHAM (Abruptly coming out on the porch.) We can give you a
poor bed in the cribhouse.
OLD MAN Thankee -- any place to rest will not be poor.
- Paul Eliot Green, 'The Honeycomb' (1934)
Peter T. Daniels
Jun 27, 2012, 5:46:28 PM6/27/12
to
Surely that's a corncrib.
benl...@ihug.co.nz
Jun 27, 2012, 8:14:23 PM6/27/12
to
And just to add more to the pile, 'crib' survives in South Island NZ
usage for a small holiday home (= NI 'bach').
0 new messages