You say Hate-ee, I say Ha-eetee
Steve Hayes
there I've noticed that newsreaders in several countries pronounce it
"Hate-ee".
Have I been wrong all along?
How do natives of the place pronounce it?
Hmm, just checked my dictionary -- it seems to give both pronunciations.
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
James Hogg
> Steve Hayes wrote:
>
>> I've always pronounced Haiti as "Ha-eetee", but since the recent
>> earthquake there I've noticed that newsreaders in several countries
>> pronounce it "Hate-ee".
>>
>> Have I been wrong all along?
>>
>> How do natives of the place pronounce it?
>
> impression is that they use the first pronunciation you give, but that
> the "ee" sound is very shortened so that it may be missed at times by
> hearers.
>
> I'm reminded of the Carmina Burana work:
> You say Car-meee-na, I say Car-my-na, ... Let's call the whole thing
> Orff.
I eat tea whereas u txt h80.
Is it formally known as Prince or Prance?
You savour Porto but I prefer Porro
All in my Boukman Eksperyans.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzQ4fWIh9Ec&feature=related
--
James
R H Draney
>
>I've always pronounced Haiti as "Ha-eetee", but since the recent earthquake
>there I've noticed that newsreaders in several countries pronounce it
>"Hate-ee".
>
>Have I been wrong all along?
>
>How do natives of the place pronounce it?
>
>Hmm, just checked my dictionary -- it seems to give both pronunciations.
We don't much cotton to saying country names in French..."Niger" is still
"NYE-jer" to use and not "nee-ZHAIR", and that other place in West Africa
remains "Ivory Coast" (conveniently named after two brands of soap)....r
--
A pessimist sees the glass as half empty.
An optometrist asks whether you see the glass
more full like this?...or like this?
Cheryl
> I've always pronounced Haiti as "Ha-eetee", but since the recent earthquake
> there I've noticed that newsreaders in several countries pronounce it
> "Hate-ee".
>
> Have I been wrong all along?
>
> How do natives of the place pronounce it?
>
> Hmm, just checked my dictionary -- it seems to give both pronunciations.
>
>
Hah-ee-tee (or something like that) from French-speakers.
The Canadian francophones speaking on the radio probably aren't of
Haitian ancestry and don't speak the verion of French they speak Haiti,
but on the other hand, there is a Haitian-Canadian community, so it's
not as though there aren't any Canadians who know how to pronounce the
name of the place. One of them is our governor-general.
--
Cheryl
Mike Barnes
>In Canada, I've always heard Hay-tee from English-speakers and Hah-ee-
>tee (or something like that) from French-speakers.
>
>The Canadian francophones speaking on the radio probably aren't of
>Haitian ancestry and don't speak the verion of French they speak Haiti,
>but on the other hand, there is a Haitian-Canadian community, so it's
>not as though there aren't any Canadians who know how to pronounce the
>name of the place. One of them is our governor-general.
I was in Canada while it was all going on and I was greatly surprised by
the number of TV presenters that said "Port-o-Pronce". It sounded to me
as if they were rhyming "Prince" with BrE "nonce", using a vowel sound
that I think doesn't normally feature in Canadian English speech, and
doesn't sound anything like a French "i" to me.
--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England
Cheryl
I've heard that along with an attempt at the French pronunciation - like
'prance' with a very nasal 'a'. I don't know where they got the 'pronce'
pronunciation, but there are newsreaders who can't pronounce Canadian
place names, never mind Haitian ones.
--
Cheryl
Cheryl
> Thus spake Mike Barnes (mikeb...@bluebottle.com) unto the assembled multitudes:
>
>> I was in Canada while it was all going on and I was greatly surprised by
>> the number of TV presenters that said "Port-o-Pronce". It sounded to me
>> as if they were rhyming "Prince" with BrE "nonce", using a vowel sound
>> that I think doesn't normally feature in Canadian English speech, and
>> doesn't sound anything like a French "i" to me.
>
> pronunciation ("Porto prance")? I got irritated by BBC reporters calling it
> "Porto prince" (English pronunciation of "prince").
>
I think Haitian French is not exactly the same as, well, French French.
In English-speaking parts of Canada, French place names are often -
almost always - not pronounced the way the French would pronounce them,
probably because the last francophone moved out a couple of centuries
ago and the anglophones have just gone ahead and adjusted the
pronunciation. In francophone areas, of course, you can have two
pronunciations or even two different names. I don't know if the local
anglophones in the overwhelmingly francophone Trois-Rivi�res still call
it 'Three Rivers', but they used to, years ago.
--
Cheryl
James Hogg
> Thus spake Mike Barnes (mikeb...@bluebottle.com) unto the assembled multitudes:
>
>> the number of TV presenters that said "Port-o-Pronce". It sounded to me
>> as if they were rhyming "Prince" with BrE "nonce", using a vowel sound
>> that I think doesn't normally feature in Canadian English speech, and
>> doesn't sound anything like a French "i" to me.
>
> pronunciation ("Porto prance")? I got irritated by BBC reporters calling it
> "Porto prince" (English pronunciation of "prince").
In standard French the t in Port is not pronounced. An English
approximation would be Porro Prance.
In Haitian Creole the t in Port is pronounced, but not the r. To my ears
it sounds more like Potto Pwence.
For IPA see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port-au-Prince
To hear the Creole pronunciation listen to the last track of:
http://www.amazon.com/Suspan-N-Lepa/dp/B002LA6VOQ
--
James
Robin Johnson
> Steve Hayes filted:
>>
>>I've always pronounced Haiti as "Ha-eetee", but since the recent earthquake
>>there I've noticed that newsreaders in several countries pronounce it
>>"Hate-ee".
>>
>>Have I been wrong all along?
>>
>>How do natives of the place pronounce it?
>>
>>Hmm, just checked my dictionary -- it seems to give both pronunciations.
>
> We don't much cotton to saying country names in French..."Niger" is still
> "NYE-jer" to use and not "nee-ZHAIR", and that other place in West Africa
> remains "Ivory Coast" (conveniently named after two brands of soap)....r
>
>
It's odd that the BBC have gone for 'heighty' since they are usually
keen to use the native name for places rather than the English one:
'Beijing', 'São Tomé and Principe', 'Chennai', 'Tiananmen Square'
and so on.
An obvious exception is 'Burma', since the name 'Myanmar' was invented by a
regime of which Auntie disapproves I suppose. There was a time when BBC
newsreaders were instructed to call the Ivory Coast 'Côte d'Ivoire' -
I well remember Jeremy Paxman pronouncing it so on 'Newsnight',
with obvious distaste!
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
wrote:
>I've always pronounced Haiti as "Ha-eetee", but since the recent earthquake
>there I've noticed that newsreaders in several countries pronounce it
>"Hate-ee".
>
>Have I been wrong all along?
>
>How do natives of the place pronounce it?
>
That might depend whether they are speaking French, Haitian Creole or
English.
Wikip says:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haiti
Haiti (pronounced /?he?t?/; French Ha�ti, pronounced: [a.iti];
Haitian Creole: Ayiti, Haitian Creole pronunciation: [ajiti])
In that "i" represents the reduced vowel sound in "happy, serious". "?"
represents the i sound in bit, lid, fill, bin.
The OED gives for Haitian:
({sm}he{shti}t{shti}{schwa}n, {sm}ha{shti}t{shti}{schwa}n,
-{sh}{schwa}n)
According to the OED pronunciation guide "e" represents the vowel sound
in the French "b�b�".
>Hmm, just checked my dictionary -- it seems to give both pronunciations.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Don Phillipson
news:0a35m5lsrvo23lovs...@4ax.com...
> I've always pronounced Haiti as "Ha-eetee", but since the recent
earthquake
> there I've noticed that newsreaders in several countries pronounce it
> "Hate-ee".
> Have I been wrong all along?
> How do natives of the place pronounce it?
> Hmm, just checked my dictionary -- it seems to give both pronunciations.
Pronunciation in English has long been Haytee (2 syllables, the
H aspirated.) Pronunciation in French has long been Ay -- ee -- tee
(3 syllables, H not aspirated.) The national language is French (or
Creole French.) Another phonological difference is stress: English
stresses the first syllable of Haytee; French has no default stress
but usually weights the second syllable more than the others.
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)
James Silverton
>> I've always pronounced Haiti as "Ha-eetee", but since the
>> recent
> earthquake
>> there I've noticed that newsreaders in several countries
>> pronounce it "Hate-ee". Have I been wrong all along? How do
>> natives of the place pronounce it? Hmm, just checked my
>> dictionary -- it seems to give both pronunciations.
>Pronunciation in English has long been Haytee (2 syllables, the
>H aspirated.) Pronunciation in French has long been Ay -- ee -- tee
>(3 syllables, H not aspirated.) The national language is French (or
>Creole French.) Another phonological difference is stress: English
>stresses the first syllable of Haytee; French has no default stress
>but usually weights the second syllable more than the others.
Since I find spoken Haitian Creole very difficult to comprehend, do you
have definite information that inhabitants pronounce the name as in
standard French? There is an example of a difference where Parisians
pronounce the name of the resort Chamonix as "Shamonix" and the locals
use "Shamoony" (rather close to the historical Chamouni and the English
speaker's pronunciation).
--
James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland
Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not
Peter Moylan
> I've always pronounced Haiti as "Ha-eetee", but since the recent earthquake
> there I've noticed that newsreaders in several countries pronounce it
> "Hate-ee".
>
> Have I been wrong all along?
>
> How do natives of the place pronounce it?
>
> Hmm, just checked my dictionary -- it seems to give both pronunciations.
>
French - either fran�ais m�tropolitain or ha�tien - it would be a gross
mistake to aspirate the "h".
The "hate-ee" is correct in English, I believe.
--
Peter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org
For an e-mail address, see my web page.
Robin Johnson
> Steve Hayes wrote:
[...]
> The "hate-ee" is correct in English, I believe.
Only in the North American variant, which some of the British are
now adopting...
James Hogg
That's the only pronunciation given in the very British pronouncing
dictionary compiled by Daniel Jones. It's much older than the
mock-French pronunication.
--
James
Steve Hayes
<ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
>On Fri, 29 Jan 2010 09:28:44 +0200, Steve Hayes <haye...@telkomsa.net>
>wrote:
>
>>I've always pronounced Haiti as "Ha-eetee", but since the recent earthquake
>>there I've noticed that newsreaders in several countries pronounce it
>>"Hate-ee".
>>
>>Have I been wrong all along?
>>
>>How do natives of the place pronounce it?
>>
>That might depend whether they are speaking French, Haitian Creole or
>English.
>
>Wikip says:
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haiti
>
> Haiti (pronounced /?he?t?/; French Ha�ti, pronounced: [a.iti];
> Haitian Creole: Ayiti, Haitian Creole pronunciation: [ajiti])
>
>In that "i" represents the reduced vowel sound in "happy, serious". "?"
>represents the i sound in bit, lid, fill, bin.
>
>The OED gives for Haitian:
>
> ({sm}he{shti}t{shti}{schwa}n, {sm}ha{shti}t{shti}{schwa}n,
> -{sh}{schwa}n)
>
>According to the OED pronunciation guide "e" represents the vowel sound
>in the French "b�b�".
OK, my dictionary says something similar, but how do YOU pronounce it?
>
>>Hmm, just checked my dictionary -- it seems to give both pronunciations.
--
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
wrote:
>On Fri, 29 Jan 2010 13:31:56 +0000, "Peter Duncanson (BrE)"
><ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 29 Jan 2010 09:28:44 +0200, Steve Hayes <haye...@telkomsa.net>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>I've always pronounced Haiti as "Ha-eetee", but since the recent earthquake
>>>there I've noticed that newsreaders in several countries pronounce it
>>>"Hate-ee".
>>>
>>>Have I been wrong all along?
>>>
>>>How do natives of the place pronounce it?
>>>
>>That might depend whether they are speaking French, Haitian Creole or
>>English.
>>
>>Wikip says:
>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haiti
>>
>> Haiti (pronounced /?he?t?/; French Ha�ti, pronounced: [a.iti];
>> Haitian Creole: Ayiti, Haitian Creole pronunciation: [ajiti])
>>
>>In that "i" represents the reduced vowel sound in "happy, serious". "?"
>>represents the i sound in bit, lid, fill, bin.
>>
>>The OED gives for Haitian:
>>
>> ({sm}he{shti}t{shti}{schwa}n, {sm}ha{shti}t{shti}{schwa}n,
>> -{sh}{schwa}n)
>>
>>According to the OED pronunciation guide "e" represents the vowel sound
>>in the French "b�b�".
>
>OK, my dictionary says something similar, but how do YOU pronounce it?
>>
BE (Before Earthquake) I might have pronounced it hah-ee-tee.
Now, AE, I'm not sure.
>>>Hmm, just checked my dictionary -- it seems to give both pronunciations.
--
R H Draney
>I well remember Jeremy Paxman pronouncing it so on 'Newsnight',
>with obvious distaste!
I know a few who wouldn't be able to come any closer than "coated voyeur"....r
Glenn Knickerbocker
> How do natives of the place pronounce it?
In last weekend's big benefit concert TV special, Wyclef Jean sang at
one point, "Ah-ee-tea, I'm talkin' 'bout hey-tea."
�R
Glenn Knickerbocker
> pronunciations or even two different names. I don't know if the local
> anglophones in the overwhelmingly francophone Trois-Rivi�res still call
> it 'Three Rivers', but they used to, years ago.
I didn't hear that at all when we stayed there 15 years ago, in either
the OUI or NON sections of town (it was just before the referendum).
�R
Cheryl
I must be getting old. I was there well before that, and I think the
usage was becoming uncommon even then.
--
Cheryl
Robert Bannister
>
> In standard French the t in Port is not pronounced. An English
> approximation would be Porro Prance.
I know that liaison is becoming increasingly rare in modern French, but
I would still have expected a sounded T in Port-au-Prince.
--
Rob Bannister
Steve Hayes
wrote:
My wife's great-great-great grandmother, Mary Kerwick, was born there in 1810.
When she died in Papendorp in the Cape Colony in 1863 her death notice stated
that she was born in "Three Rivers".
Mark Brader
>>> I've always pronounced Haiti as "Ha-eetee", but since the recent earthquake
>>> there I've noticed that newsreaders in several countries pronounce it
>>> "Hate-ee".
It's always been "Hate-ee" for me.
Robin Johnson:
> It's odd that the BBC have gone for 'heighty' since they are usually
> keen to use the native name for places rather than the English one:
> 'Beijing', 'S�o Tom� and Principe', 'Chennai', 'Tiananmen Square'
> and so on.
The native name for Sao Tome and Principe is "S�o Tom� e Pr�ncipe".
You seem to have gone half-and-half with your "and Principe".
What "English name" do you have in mind for the place? I haven't
ever heard one. Likewise for Tienanmen Square.
For the other two, it's dubious whether the names I imagine you have in
mind really qualify as "English". But I'd rather not get that thread
started again.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto "There are no new ideas, only new
m...@vex.net mouths to speak them." -- Linda Burman
My text in this article is in the public domain.
Mark Brader
> > What "English name" do you have in mind for the place? I haven't
> > ever heard one. Likewise for Tienanmen Square.
> "Gate of Heavenly Peace".
I've heard of that, but only as the translation of the name, not as a name.
--
Mark Brader "How can we believe that?"
Toronto "Because this time it's true!"
m...@vex.net -- Lynn & Jay: YES, PRIME MINISTER
John Holmes
> Mark Brader:
>>> What "English name" do you have in mind for the place? I haven't
>>> ever heard one. Likewise for Tienanmen Square.
>
> Zhang Dawei:
>> "Gate of Heavenly Peace".
>
> I've heard of that, but only as the translation of the name, not as a
> name.
And doesn't it refer to the gate itself, rather than the square that is
outside the gate?
--
Regards
John
for mail: my initials plus a u e
at tpg dot com dot au
John Dunlop
> The name "Port au Prince" is French, so surely it should use the French
> pronunciation ("Porto prance")? I got irritated by BBC reporters
> calling it "Porto prince" (English pronunciation of "prince").
/-prIn(t)s/ (as in English "prince") is the only pronunciation in the
Longman Pronunciation Dictionary (2000). The French is transcribed as
undergoing liaison, the /t/ being the onset to the second syllable.
The main pronunciation of "Haiti" is given as /'heIt i/. Alternatives
include two three-syllable pronunciations, differing in the quality of
their first vowels: /haI 'i:t i/ and /hA:-/.
--
John
CDB
> Glenn Knickerbocker <No...@bestweb.net> wrote:
>> Cheryl wrote:
>
>>> pronunciations or even two different names. I don't know if the
>>> local anglophones in the overwhelmingly francophone
>>> Trois-Rivi�res still call it 'Three Rivers', but they used to,
>>> years ago.
>>
>> I didn't hear that at all when we stayed there 15 years ago, in
>> either the OUI or NON sections of town (it was just before the
>> referendum).
>
> My wife's great-great-great grandmother, Mary Kerwick, was born
> there in 1810. When she died in Papendorp in the Cape Colony in
> 1863 her death notice stated that she was born in "Three Rivers".
>
English; when speaking French, you would naturally use the French
form. It also appeared on English-language maps as Three Rivers,
until some time in the sixties when map nomenclature was officially
reformed. Sorry, I don't remember much about the change, and haven't
been able to find an account of it.
>
It was probably the increasing assertiveness of French Quebeckers that
persuaded most Canadians to use "Trois-Rivi�res" after the 1960s --
that, and perhaps the fact that there are other places known by the
English name.
>
The Bellemares first show up in Canada near Trois-Rivi�res (in la
Paroisse de Yamachiche) in the late seventeenth century, so I am of
Trifluvian ancestry, although I didn't know that was the official word
for it ("trifluvien") until I started googling this question.
Cheryl
Maybe he's being inclusive by using a range of pronunciations.
On the other hand, words may be sung with a different pronunciation than
they are spoken with. I had a French teacher once who liked to play
songs for us to write down, and I might not remember much French, but I
do remember that some words were pronounced in unexpected ways when sung.
--
Cheryl
Steve Hayes
>Steve Hayes wrote:
>> Glenn Knickerbocker <No...@bestweb.net> wrote:
>> My wife's great-great-great grandmother, Mary Kerwick, was born
>> there in 1810. When she died in Papendorp in the Cape Colony in
>> 1863 her death notice stated that she was born in "Three Rivers".
>>
>In Ottawa, in the 1950s, it was regularly called "Three Rivers" in
>English; when speaking French, you would naturally use the French
>form. It also appeared on English-language maps as Three Rivers,
>until some time in the sixties when map nomenclature was officially
>reformed. Sorry, I don't remember much about the change, and haven't
>been able to find an account of it.
>>
>It was probably the increasing assertiveness of French Quebeckers that
>persuaded most Canadians to use "Trois-Rivi?s" after the 1960s --
>that, and perhaps the fact that there are other places known by the
>English name.
>>
>The Bellemares first show up in Canada near Trois-Rivi?s (in la
>Paroisse de Yamachiche) in the late seventeenth century, so I am of
>Trifluvian ancestry, although I didn't know that was the official word
>for it ("trifluvien") until I started googling this question.
Now that's something to remember.
We have some place names that are bilingual, or semi-bilingual.
Cape Town / Kaapstad
Warmbaths / Warmbad, though now known as Bela Bela
Mark Brader
> The Bellemares first show up in Canada near Trois-Rivi�res (in la
> Paroisse de Yamachiche) in the late seventeenth century, so I am of
> Trifluvian ancestry, although I didn't know that was the official word
> for it ("trifluvien") until I started googling this question.
That surprises me. The way I learned it in French class, "fleuve" means
a big river and "rivi�re" means a little one. It's like the distinction
in English between "river" on the one hand and "creek", "stream", "run",
"brook", etc. on the other, only in French you draw the boundary at a
larger size. So this strikes me as like having a town named "Three
Creeks" while its inhabitants are named "Tririverites".
Of course, one of the three rivers in Trois-Rivi�res is the St. Lawrence
(or St-Laurent), which is certainly a fleuve, so maybe my understanding
of the words is just faulty. Wouldn't be the only thing I learned in
school that was wrong.
--
Mark Brader | "I think it's safe to say that no person can hope to
Toronto | achieve basic life competence without consulting my
m...@vex.net | work on a regular basis." -- Cecil Adams
Mark Brader
> > In last weekend's big benefit concert TV special, Wyclef Jean sang at
> > one point, "Ah-ee-tea, I'm talkin' 'bout hey-tea."
Cheryl Perkins:
> Maybe he's being inclusive by using a range of pronunciations.
That's certainly how I read the line, seeing it here. First the local
pronunciation, then the English one.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto "When you say 'non-trivial', can you
m...@vex.net quantify that for me?" --Kate Hamilton
Peter Moylan
> C.D. Bellemare:
>> The Bellemares first show up in Canada near Trois-Rivi�res (in la
>> Paroisse de Yamachiche) in the late seventeenth century, so I am of
>> Trifluvian ancestry, although I didn't know that was the official word
>> for it ("trifluvien") until I started googling this question.
>
> That surprises me. The way I learned it in French class, "fleuve" means
> a big river and "rivi�re" means a little one. It's like the distinction
> in English between "river" on the one hand and "creek", "stream", "run",
> "brook", etc. on the other, only in French you draw the boundary at a
> larger size. So this strikes me as like having a town named "Three
> Creeks" while its inhabitants are named "Tririverites".
Perhaps it's more like using the word "antediluvian" in reference to
something that we don't, in English, call "The Deluge".
Reinhold {Rey} Aman
>
> Cheryl wrote:
>
>> On the other hand, words may be sung with a different pronunciation
>> than they are spoken with. I had a French teacher once who liked to
>> play songs for us to write down, and I might not remember much
>> French, but I do remember that some words were pronounced in
>> unexpected ways when sung.
>
> always pronounced (as a kind of "uh" sound) when we were being taught
> to sing French songs back in the 1960s.
>
For example, the final <-e> in "AlouettE, gentille AlouettE", in "Allons
enfants de la PatriE", and in "Fr�rE JacquEs".
--
~~~ Reinhold {Rey} Aman ~~~
Roland Hutchinson
> Mark Brader wrote:
>> C.D. Bellemare:
>>> The Bellemares first show up in Canada near Trois-Rivières (in la
>>> Paroisse de Yamachiche) in the late seventeenth century, so I am of
>>> Trifluvian ancestry, although I didn't know that was the official word
>>> for it ("trifluvien") until I started googling this question.
>>
>> That surprises me. The way I learned it in French class, "fleuve"
>> means a big river and "rivière" means a little one. It's like the
>> distinction in English between "river" on the one hand and "creek",
>> "stream", "run", "brook", etc. on the other, only in French you draw
>> the boundary at a larger size. So this strikes me as like having a
>> town named "Three Creeks" while its inhabitants are named
>> "Tririverites".
>
> Perhaps it's more like using the word "antediluvian" in reference to
> something that we don't, in English, call "The Deluge".
Perhaps it's simply that "trifluvian" is a coinage based on Latin rather
than French.
--
Roland Hutchinson
He calls himself "the Garden State's leading violist da gamba,"
... comparable to being ruler of an exceptionally small duchy.
--Newark (NJ) Star Ledger ( http://tinyurl.com/RolandIsNJ )
CDB
> C.D. Bellemare:
>
>> The Bellemares first show up in Canada near Trois-Rivi�res (in la
>> Paroisse de Yamachiche) in the late seventeenth century, so I am of
>> Trifluvian ancestry, although I didn't know that was the official
>> word for it ("trifluvien") until I started googling this question.
>
> That surprises me. The way I learned it in French class, "fleuve"
> means a big river and "rivi�re" means a little one. It's like the
> distinction in English between "river" on the one hand and "creek",
> "stream", "run", "brook", etc. on the other, only in French you
> draw the boundary at a larger size. So this strikes me as like
> having a town named "Three Creeks" while its inhabitants are named
> "Tririverites".
>
posted the word. My understanding of the difference was that a fleuve
runs into a sea or ocean, while a rivi\ere runs into another river, or
a lake (I think). I see in atilf that you are right, and the
distinction is also one of the size and complexity of the river
system. The bigger ones would be more likely to get to a sea, I
suppose.
> Of course, one of the three rivers in Trois-Rivi�res is the St.
> Lawrence (or St-Laurent), which is certainly a fleuve, so maybe my
> understanding of the words is just faulty. Wouldn't be the only
> thing I learned in school that was wrong.
>
Ahem. "Saint-Laurent".
>
I think Roland is right about the Latin derivation of the word.
There's no distinction reported in my Latin dictionary, which defines
"fluvius" as a river or stream. The example given is "Eurotas
fluvius", but I don't know how many Greek rivers there are that don't
flow into the Med.
Mark Brader
>> Of course, one of the three rivers in Trois-Rivi�res is the St.
C.D. Bellemare:
> Ahem. "Saint-Laurent".
"Ahem"?
> I think Roland is right about the Latin derivation of the word.
> There's no distinction reported in my Latin dictionary...
Makes sense, at that.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto "C and C++ are two different languages.
m...@vex.net That's UK policy..." -- Clive Feather
CDB
> Mark Brader:
>>> Of course, one of the three rivers in Trois-Rivi�res is the St.
>>> Lawrence (or St-Laurent) ...
>
> C.D. Bellemare:
>> Ahem. "Saint-Laurent".
>
> "Ahem"?
>
French. Delighted to pass it on.
>
>> I think Roland is right about the Latin derivation of the word.
>> There's no distinction reported in my Latin dictionary...
>
> Makes sense, at that.
>
Garrett Wollman
CDB <belle...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>A grunt of pleasure. Had my hand slapped a time or two for "St" in
>French. Delighted to pass it on.
Had the hand-slapper ever looked at a map of Quebec? At least on
mine, most of those "Saint"s and "Sainte"s aren't spelled out.
-GAWollman
--
Garrett A. Wollman | What intellectual phenomenon can be older, or more oft
wol...@bimajority.org| repeated, than the story of a large research program
Opinions not shared by| that impaled itself upon a false central assumption
my employers. | accepted by all practitioners? - S.J. Gould, 1993
CDB
> CDB <belle...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
>> A grunt of pleasure. Had my hand slapped a time or two for "St" in
>> French. Delighted to pass it on.
>
> Had the hand-slapper ever looked at a map of Quebec? At least on
> mine, most of those "Saint"s and "Sainte"s aren't spelled out.
>
have been house style where I worked, but I was given to understand
that it was the correct formal spelling. Maybe your map's excuse was
the need for economies of space.
Mark Brader
>>>> Of course, one of the three rivers in Trois-Rivi�res is the St.
>>>> Lawrence (or St-Laurent) ...
C.D. Bellemare:
>>> Ahem. "Saint-Laurent".
Mark Brader:
>> "Ahem"?
C.D. Bellemare:
> A grunt of pleasure. Had my hand slapped a time or two for "St" in
> French. Delighted to pass it on.
What on Earth are you talking about? (Reads followups.)
Oh. Don't be silly.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "It's easier to deal with 'opposite numbers'
m...@vex.net | when you know you cannot trust them." --Chess
CDB
> Mark Brader:
>>>>> Of course, one of the three rivers in Trois-Rivi�res is the St.
>>>>> Lawrence (or St-Laurent) ...
>
> C.D. Bellemare:
>>>> Ahem. "Saint-Laurent".
>
> Mark Brader:
>>> "Ahem"?
>
> C.D. Bellemare:
>> A grunt of pleasure. Had my hand slapped a time or two for "St" in
>> French. Delighted to pass it on.
>
> What on Earth are you talking about? (Reads followups.)
> Oh. Don't be silly.
>
Athel Cornish-Bowden
[ ... ]
> In standard French the t in Port is not pronounced. An English
> approximation would be Porro Prance.
>
> In Haitian Creole the t in Port is pronounced, but not the r. To my ears
> it sounds more like Potto Pwence.
>
> For IPA see:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port-au-Prince
>
> To hear the Creole pronunciation listen to the last track of:
> http://www.amazon.com/Suspan-N-Lepa/dp/B002LA6VOQ
This came up here a couple of weeks ago, and as the President of Haiti
was interviewed a couple of days ago on television I listened to see
how he would pronounce it: he definitely pronounced the r but not the
t. However, he was of course speaking French (as Creole would be
understood only with extreme difficulty in France), and might well have
said it differently if he'd been speaking Creole.
--
athel