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arthurvv vart
May 17, 2022, 3:14:15 AM5/17/22
to
1) Fox isn't a channel where you can say I don't want it.
(He's talking about cable subscriptions.)
source:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsdCIzCXHO0
From: 52:00 to 52:10
Is '1' grammatical?
Is it natural?
What does 'where' mean here exactly?
I've always had this problem with English. We can't really say:
2) There was a scholar about whom we didn't know how many books he had published.
We have to say
3) There was a scholar and we didn't know how many books he had published.
I suppose a lot of people use the gapless relative and go for:
4) There was a scholar that we didn't know how many books he had published.
'1' seems to solve the problem with 'where'. But is it correct?
How about '3' and '4'?
Gratefully,
Navi
(He's talking about cable subscriptions.)
source:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsdCIzCXHO0
From: 52:00 to 52:10
Is '1' grammatical?
Is it natural?
What does 'where' mean here exactly?
I've always had this problem with English. We can't really say:
2) There was a scholar about whom we didn't know how many books he had published.
We have to say
3) There was a scholar and we didn't know how many books he had published.
I suppose a lot of people use the gapless relative and go for:
4) There was a scholar that we didn't know how many books he had published.
'1' seems to solve the problem with 'where'. But is it correct?
How about '3' and '4'?
Gratefully,
Navi
Peter Moylan
May 17, 2022, 6:44:37 AM5/17/22
to
On 17/05/22 17:14, arthurvv vart wrote:
> I've always had this problem with English. We can't really say:
>
> 2) There was a scholar about whom we didn't know how many books he had published.
>
> We have to say
>
> 3) There was a scholar and we didn't know how many books he had published.
> I suppose a lot of people use the gapless relative and go for:
>
> 4) There was a scholar that we didn't know how many books he had published.
There must be tens of thousands of scholars whose publication record is
> I've always had this problem with English. We can't really say:
>
> 2) There was a scholar about whom we didn't know how many books he had published.
>
> We have to say
>
> 3) There was a scholar and we didn't know how many books he had published.
> I suppose a lot of people use the gapless relative and go for:
>
> 4) There was a scholar that we didn't know how many books he had published.
unknown to me. It's hard enough keeping track of the researchers in my
own field.
My point, in case it's not obvious, is that statements like the above
about some unspecified scholar are so waffly as to be pointless. To get
a meaningful version you'd have to be talking about a scholar whose
identity has been established. And then, of course, you would write a
completely different sentence, something like
"Consider John Smith. We don't know how many books he wrote,
but it's clear that he had a lot of influence."
This is about a concrete person. Existential claims like "There was ...
occur less often in real writing. Of course they do occur sometimes, but
when they do we don't try to pack too much information into a single
sentence. Here's an example of what I might write:
"There was once a scholar who wrote many books. His identity
is not important. We don't know how many books he wrote,
but that doesn't matter. The important thing about that
person is that ... "
Notice how I broke the information into several sentences.
--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org
Tony Cooper
May 17, 2022, 8:53:47 AM5/17/22
to
On Tue, 17 May 2022 00:14:13 -0700 (PDT), arthurvv vart
<arthu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>1) Fox isn't a channel where you can say I don't want it.
>
>(He's talking about cable subscriptions.)
>
>source:
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsdCIzCXHO0
>
>
<arthu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>1) Fox isn't a channel where you can say I don't want it.
>
>(He's talking about cable subscriptions.)
>
>source:
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsdCIzCXHO0
>
>
>What does 'where' mean here exactly?
"Where", in this context, mean "an example of" or any words to that
effect.
The statement is based on the fact that if a person signs up for
cable, the cable provider's group of channels includes Fox, and Fox
cannot be omitted from that group.
It might be misleading to some readers here. Most people would want
the Fox channel as part of their cable package. What they might not
want is the Fox News channel. That's a different channel.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida
I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.
Peter T. Daniels
May 17, 2022, 10:26:20 AM5/17/22
to
On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 3:14:15 AM UTC-4, arthurvv vart wrote:
> 1) Fox isn't a channel where you can say I don't want it.
>
> (He's talking about cable subscriptions.)
>
> source:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsdCIzCXHO0
>
> From: 52:00 to 52:10
> Is '1' grammatical?
> Is it natural?
>
> What does 'where' mean here exactly?
'in/at which' -- seems perfectly natural
> 1) Fox isn't a channel where you can say I don't want it.
>
> (He's talking about cable subscriptions.)
>
> source:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsdCIzCXHO0
>
> From: 52:00 to 52:10
> Is '1' grammatical?
> Is it natural?
>
> What does 'where' mean here exactly?
> I've always had this problem with English. We can't really say:
>
> 2) There was a scholar about whom we didn't know how many books he had published.
>
> We have to say
sentences into one.
> 3) There was a scholar and we didn't know how many books he had published.
> I suppose a lot of people use the gapless relative and go for:
>
> 4) There was a scholar that we didn't know how many books he had published.
>
> '1' seems to solve the problem with 'where'. But is it correct?
> How about '3' and '4'?
Peter T. Daniels
May 17, 2022, 10:28:48 AM5/17/22
to
On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 6:44:37 AM UTC-4, Peter Moylan wrote:
> This is about a concrete person. Existential claims like "There was ...
> occur less often in real writing. Of course they do occur sometimes, but
> when they do we don't try to pack too much information into a single
> sentence. Here's an example of what I might write:
>
> "There was once a scholar who wrote many books. His identity
> is not important. We don't know how many books he wrote,
> but that doesn't matter. The important thing about that
> person is that ... "
... he was Alexander of Macedon's tutor.
> This is about a concrete person. Existential claims like "There was ...
> occur less often in real writing. Of course they do occur sometimes, but
> when they do we don't try to pack too much information into a single
> sentence. Here's an example of what I might write:
>
> "There was once a scholar who wrote many books. His identity
> is not important. We don't know how many books he wrote,
> but that doesn't matter. The important thing about that
> person is that ... "
> Notice how I broke the information into several sentences.
Peter T. Daniels
May 17, 2022, 10:33:07 AM5/17/22
to
On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 8:53:47 AM UTC-4, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Tue, 17 May 2022 00:14:13 -0700 (PDT), arthurvv vart
> <arthu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >1) Fox isn't a channel where you can say I don't want it.
> >(He's talking about cable subscriptions.)
> >source:
> >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsdCIzCXHO0
> >What does 'where' mean here exactly?
>
> "Where", in this context, mean "an example of" or any words to that
> effect.
>
> The statement is based on the fact that if a person signs up for
> cable, the cable provider's group of channels includes Fox, and Fox
> cannot be omitted from that group.
>
> It might be misleading to some readers here. Most people would want
> the Fox channel as part of their cable package. What they might not
> want is the Fox News channel. That's a different channel.
But Fox is broadcast TV. Even if you get it through wires, you're not
> On Tue, 17 May 2022 00:14:13 -0700 (PDT), arthurvv vart
> <arthu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >1) Fox isn't a channel where you can say I don't want it.
> >(He's talking about cable subscriptions.)
> >source:
> >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsdCIzCXHO0
> >What does 'where' mean here exactly?
>
> "Where", in this context, mean "an example of" or any words to that
> effect.
>
> The statement is based on the fact that if a person signs up for
> cable, the cable provider's group of channels includes Fox, and Fox
> cannot be omitted from that group.
>
> It might be misleading to some readers here. Most people would want
> the Fox channel as part of their cable package. What they might not
> want is the Fox News channel. That's a different channel.
paying a fee for it, but, as I noted the other day, you _are_ paying for
Fox News. Every month. Even if you never look at it.
But your digression has nothing at all to do with arthur-Navi's query.
> --
>
> Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida
>
> I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.
And irrelevancy,
>
> Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida
>
> I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.
Tony Cooper
May 17, 2022, 10:56:04 AM5/17/22
to
The most commonly seen form of entertainment is opening the group to
see what PTD has posted that is the text equivilent of putting his
foot in his mouth.
In this case, you've made a post that is intended to be critical of my
"digression" by adding something that is not relevant to the question
asked.
Then, you merrily type on and add your own digression about paying for
Fox News! That, coupled with your usual "It was me, me, me, and I
want credit for it" bit about "as I noted".
To top it off, your post doesn't address Arthur's question.
You've met today's quota of entertainment, but I'm sure you'll add
more. In this, at least, you are an over-achiever.
CDB
May 17, 2022, 11:41:58 AM5/17/22
to
On 5/17/2022 8:53 AM, Tony Cooper wrote:
> arthurvv vart <arthu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 1) Fox isn't a channel where you can say I don't want it.
>> (He's talking about cable subscriptions.)
>> source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsdCIzCXHO0
>> What does 'where' mean here exactly?
> "Where", in this context, mean "an example of" or any words to that
> effect.
> The statement is based on the fact that if a person signs up for
> cable, the cable provider's group of channels includes Fox, and Fox
> cannot be omitted from that group.
> It might be misleading to some readers here. Most people would want
> the Fox channel as part of their cable package. What they might not
> want is the Fox News channel. That's a different channel.
If, contrary to all good sense, they didn't want any Fox, I suppose they
> arthurvv vart <arthu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 1) Fox isn't a channel where you can say I don't want it.
>> (He's talking about cable subscriptions.)
>> source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsdCIzCXHO0
>> What does 'where' mean here exactly?
> "Where", in this context, mean "an example of" or any words to that
> effect.
> The statement is based on the fact that if a person signs up for
> cable, the cable provider's group of channels includes Fox, and Fox
> cannot be omitted from that group.
> It might be misleading to some readers here. Most people would want
> the Fox channel as part of their cable package. What they might not
> want is the Fox News channel. That's a different channel.
could say "Fox isn't a channel you can say you don't want (and be
listened to)" or "Fox isn't a channel whose offer you can refuse".
Tony Cooper
May 17, 2022, 12:43:46 PM5/17/22
to
>But Fox is broadcast TV. Even if you get it through wires, you're not
>paying a fee for it, but, as I noted the other day, you _are_ paying for
>Fox News. Every month. Even if you never look at it.
>
Of course the same is true of CNN and MSNBC. The difference is that
>paying a fee for it, but, as I noted the other day, you _are_ paying for
>Fox News. Every month. Even if you never look at it.
>
Fox News had better negotiators.
Peter T. Daniels
May 17, 2022, 2:28:51 PM5/17/22
to
On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 10:56:04 AM UTC-4, Tony Cooper wrote:
> To top it off, your post doesn't address Arthur's question.
Because I had already answered it, illiterate moron.
> To top it off, your post doesn't address Arthur's question.
> --
> Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida
>
> I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.
And stupidity.
> Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida
>
> I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.
Peter T. Daniels
May 17, 2022, 2:30:01 PM5/17/22
to
On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 12:43:46 PM UTC-4, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Tue, 17 May 2022 07:33:00 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >But Fox is broadcast TV. Even if you get it through wires, you're not
> >paying a fee for it, but, as I noted the other day, you _are_ paying for
> >Fox News. Every month. Even if you never look at it.
>
> Of course the same is true of CNN and MSNBC. The difference is that
> Fox News had better negotiators.
No. You have to order MSNBC and pay for it, as part of some package
> On Tue, 17 May 2022 07:33:00 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >But Fox is broadcast TV. Even if you get it through wires, you're not
> >paying a fee for it, but, as I noted the other day, you _are_ paying for
> >Fox News. Every month. Even if you never look at it.
>
> Of course the same is true of CNN and MSNBC. The difference is that
> Fox News had better negotiators.
or other. They only get your $3 or so if you have asked to pay it.
> --
> Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida
>
> I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.
And misinformation.
> Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida
>
> I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.
Tony Cooper
May 17, 2022, 4:41:55 PM5/17/22
to
On Tue, 17 May 2022 11:29:59 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
or satellite-provided service or to something like YouTube which you
will pay for. The cable/satellite channels get a "carriage fee".
Dunno about YouTube.
You've used $3.00 for the Fox News amount, but what I find is that it
averages about $2.00 per month. If you can cite something that shows
$3.00, do so.
However, each cable/satellite provider has a contract that is renewed
each year and I can't find 2022 figures. The 2021 fee for Fox News
is about $2.00 on average and an average because each provider is not
paying the same fee. Each cable/satellite provider has a contract
that is renewed each year, so the numbers may change.
MSNBC and CNN's carriage fees are much lower because the negotiations
and fees are based on viewership.
However, each cable/satellite provider has a contract that is renewed
each year. The "average" is because each provider is paying the same
fee.
This chart shows the fees for Fox News, MSNBC, and CNN. Someone who
watches Fox News but not MSNBC or CNN is paying for MSNBC and CNN.
https://www.pewresearch.org/journalism/chart/sotnm-cable-license-fee-revenue-for-cable-tv/
I've included "satellite" providers because DISH TV and DIRECTTV.
Personally, I don't understand the fooferaw about Fox New's carriage
fee. ESPN charges the highest carriage fee (over $5.00 per month) and
many cable/satellite subscribers have that in their package and never
watch it.
<gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 12:43:46 PM UTC-4, Tony Cooper wrote:
>> On Tue, 17 May 2022 07:33:00 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
>> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> >But Fox is broadcast TV. Even if you get it through wires, you're not
>> >paying a fee for it, but, as I noted the other day, you _are_ paying for
>> >Fox News. Every month. Even if you never look at it.
>> x
>On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 12:43:46 PM UTC-4, Tony Cooper wrote:
>> On Tue, 17 May 2022 07:33:00 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
>> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> >But Fox is broadcast TV. Even if you get it through wires, you're not
>> >paying a fee for it, but, as I noted the other day, you _are_ paying for
>> >Fox News. Every month. Even if you never look at it.
>> Of course the same is true of CNN and MSNBC. The difference is that
>> Fox News had better negotiators.
>
>No. You have to order MSNBC and pay for it, as part of some package
>or other. They only get your $3 or so if you have asked to pay it.
You can only get Fox News, CNN, or MSNBC by subscribing to some cable-
>> Fox News had better negotiators.
>
>No. You have to order MSNBC and pay for it, as part of some package
>or other. They only get your $3 or so if you have asked to pay it.
or satellite-provided service or to something like YouTube which you
will pay for. The cable/satellite channels get a "carriage fee".
Dunno about YouTube.
You've used $3.00 for the Fox News amount, but what I find is that it
averages about $2.00 per month. If you can cite something that shows
$3.00, do so.
However, each cable/satellite provider has a contract that is renewed
each year and I can't find 2022 figures. The 2021 fee for Fox News
is about $2.00 on average and an average because each provider is not
paying the same fee. Each cable/satellite provider has a contract
that is renewed each year, so the numbers may change.
MSNBC and CNN's carriage fees are much lower because the negotiations
and fees are based on viewership.
However, each cable/satellite provider has a contract that is renewed
each year. The "average" is because each provider is paying the same
fee.
This chart shows the fees for Fox News, MSNBC, and CNN. Someone who
watches Fox News but not MSNBC or CNN is paying for MSNBC and CNN.
https://www.pewresearch.org/journalism/chart/sotnm-cable-license-fee-revenue-for-cable-tv/
I've included "satellite" providers because DISH TV and DIRECTTV.
Personally, I don't understand the fooferaw about Fox New's carriage
fee. ESPN charges the highest carriage fee (over $5.00 per month) and
many cable/satellite subscribers have that in their package and never
watch it.
Peter T. Daniels
May 17, 2022, 5:18:19 PM5/17/22
to
On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 4:41:55 PM UTC-4, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Tue, 17 May 2022 11:29:59 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> >On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 12:43:46 PM UTC-4, Tony Cooper wrote:
> >> On Tue, 17 May 2022 07:33:00 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
> >> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >> >But Fox is broadcast TV. Even if you get it through wires, you're not
> >> >paying a fee for it, but, as I noted the other day, you _are_ paying for
> >> >Fox News. Every month. Even if you never look at it.
> On Tue, 17 May 2022 11:29:59 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> >On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 12:43:46 PM UTC-4, Tony Cooper wrote:
> >> On Tue, 17 May 2022 07:33:00 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
> >> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >> >But Fox is broadcast TV. Even if you get it through wires, you're not
> >> >paying a fee for it, but, as I noted the other day, you _are_ paying for
> >> >Fox News. Every month. Even if you never look at it.
> >> Of course the same is true of CNN and MSNBC. The difference is that
> >> Fox News had better negotiators.
> >No. You have to order MSNBC and pay for it, as part of some package
> >or other. They only get your $3 or so if you have asked to pay it.
>
> You can only get Fox News, CNN, or MSNBC by subscribing to some cable-
> or satellite-provided service or to something like YouTube which you
> will pay for. The cable/satellite channels get a "carriage fee".
> Dunno about YouTube.
Wrong end of the stick, as usual. You cannot NOT have $3 of your
> >> Fox News had better negotiators.
> >No. You have to order MSNBC and pay for it, as part of some package
> >or other. They only get your $3 or so if you have asked to pay it.
>
> You can only get Fox News, CNN, or MSNBC by subscribing to some cable-
> or satellite-provided service or to something like YouTube which you
> will pay for. The cable/satellite channels get a "carriage fee".
> Dunno about YouTube.
monthly cable bill go to Fox News, whereas if you don't choose to
get MSNBC, it doesn't get any payment from you.
I'd guess that CNN has a similar deal to Fox News, because all
hotels have both of those but some hotels don't have MSNBC,
suggesting they'd have to pay extra for it.
> You've used $3.00 for the Fox News amount, but what I find is that it
> averages about $2.00 per month. If you can cite something that shows
> $3.00, do so.
Media," within the last month or so.
> However, each cable/satellite provider has a contract that is renewed
> each year and I can't find 2022 figures. The 2021 fee for Fox News
> is about $2.00 on average and an average because each provider is not
> paying the same fee. Each cable/satellite provider has a contract
> that is renewed each year, so the numbers may change.
>
> MSNBC and CNN's carriage fees are much lower because the negotiations
> and fees are based on viewership.
>
> However, each cable/satellite provider has a contract that is renewed
> each year. The "average" is because each provider is paying the same
> fee.
>
> This chart shows the fees for Fox News, MSNBC, and CNN. Someone who
> watches Fox News but not MSNBC or CNN is paying for MSNBC and CNN.
> https://www.pewresearch.org/journalism/chart/sotnm-cable-license-fee-revenue-for-cable-tv/
That says ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about the question at hand --
that you cannot opt out of paying for Fox News.
Whereas if you want to watch MSNBC at all, you have to opt in
and pay for it.
> I've included "satellite" providers because DISH TV and DIRECTTV.
>
> Personally, I don't understand the fooferaw about Fox New's carriage
> fee. ESPN charges the highest carriage fee (over $5.00 per month) and
> many cable/satellite subscribers have that in their package and never
> watch it.
No one is complaining that the fee is $3 instead of $2 or $4. The
problem is that they have to pay it even if they would never ever
tune it in and did not choose a premium package that included it.
The existence of "packages" is a different evil relating to cable TV
but that's not the problem here.
> --
> Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida
>
> I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.
And not only misinformation, but also miscomprehension,
> Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida
>
> I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.
Tony Cooper
May 17, 2022, 7:27:30 PM5/17/22
to
On Tue, 17 May 2022 14:18:16 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
my choices are?
The basic cable package with my provider includes Fox News, MSNBC, and
CNN. I have no choice. There are seventyeleven other channels (that
are not the standard ABC, NBC, CBS channels) that come with that basic
cable package, and I never watch most of them. Comedy Central, yes,
Bravo on ocassion, and maybe a couple of others.
I did choose to add HBO and Showtime (a linked package).
>> You've used $3.00 for the Fox News amount, but what I find is that it
>> averages about $2.00 per month. If you can cite something that shows
>> $3.00, do so.
>
>It was on an NPR or more likely WNYC broadcast, probably "On the
>Media," within the last month or so.
So it's hearsay according to your recollection. Was it the figure for
the provider of the reporter's cable package, or the average for all
providers?
You do understand that there are many cable/satellite providers?
Viewership by channel will vary by area and carriage fees are based on
viewership. That's why "average" figures are used.
>> However, each cable/satellite provider has a contract that is renewed
>> each year and I can't find 2022 figures. The 2021 fee for Fox News
>> is about $2.00 on average and an average because each provider is not
>> paying the same fee. Each cable/satellite provider has a contract
>> that is renewed each year, so the numbers may change.
>>
>> MSNBC and CNN's carriage fees are much lower because the negotiations
>> and fees are based on viewership.
>>
>> However, each cable/satellite provider has a contract that is renewed
>> each year. The "average" is because each provider is paying the same
>> fee.
>>
>> This chart shows the fees for Fox News, MSNBC, and CNN. Someone who
>> watches Fox News but not MSNBC or CNN is paying for MSNBC and CNN.
>
>Since when?
Probably 1980 for CNN when they first started and 1996 for MSNBC.
>
>> https://www.pewresearch.org/journalism/chart/sotnm-cable-license-fee-revenue-for-cable-tv/
>
>That says ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about the question at hand --
>that you cannot opt out of paying for Fox News.
That's not a question at hand. No one is disputing that. The
carriage fees for all channels is built into the provider's rates.
>Whereas if you want to watch MSNBC at all, you have to opt in
>and pay for it.
I asked above: You don't have cable/satellite, but you feel qualified
to tell me what my choices are?
The "opt in" aspect is which plan you subscribe to and what plans are
available from the provider in your area. In mine, there's no opt in
or opt out for either MSNBC or Fox News.
In your case, Xfinity (a provider in your area) would add both MSNBC
and Fox News (but both, not just either) if you take the next level up
from the minimum plan.
https://www.xfinity.com/learn/channel-lineup-bundles
Because they offer a channel in some plan, they will pay a carriage
fee to that channel. Subcribers can't opt out of any of those fees
from any channel.
>The existence of "packages" is a different evil relating to cable TV
>but that's not the problem here.
Of course it is. The cable/satellite providers sell only a "package"
with optional extra "packages". No provider offers just an ala carte
choice of channels. Some offer a package and also the ability to add
extra channels, but the provider decides what's in the basic package.
What you don't seem to be able to understand is that carriage fees
paid to all channels are factored in in the provider's basic rates.
It's not just Fox New's carriage fees,
<gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 4:41:55 PM UTC-4, Tony Cooper wrote:
>> On Tue, 17 May 2022 11:29:59 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
>> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>> >On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 12:43:46 PM UTC-4, Tony Cooper wrote:
>> >> On Tue, 17 May 2022 07:33:00 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
>> >> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> >> >But Fox is broadcast TV. Even if you get it through wires, you're not
>> >> >paying a fee for it, but, as I noted the other day, you _are_ paying for
>> >> >Fox News. Every month. Even if you never look at it.
>> >> Of course the same is true of CNN and MSNBC. The difference is that
>> >> Fox News had better negotiators.
>> >No. You have to order MSNBC and pay for it, as part of some package
>> >or other. They only get your $3 or so if you have asked to pay it.
>>
>> You can only get Fox News, CNN, or MSNBC by subscribing to some cable-
>> or satellite-provided service or to something like YouTube which you
>> will pay for. The cable/satellite channels get a "carriage fee".
>> Dunno about YouTube.
>
>Wrong end of the stick, as usual. You cannot NOT have $3 of your
>monthly cable bill go to Fox News, whereas if you don't choose to
>get MSNBC, it doesn't get any payment from you.
You don't have cable/satellite, but you feel qualified to tell me what
>On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 4:41:55 PM UTC-4, Tony Cooper wrote:
>> On Tue, 17 May 2022 11:29:59 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
>> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>> >On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 12:43:46 PM UTC-4, Tony Cooper wrote:
>> >> On Tue, 17 May 2022 07:33:00 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
>> >> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> >> >But Fox is broadcast TV. Even if you get it through wires, you're not
>> >> >paying a fee for it, but, as I noted the other day, you _are_ paying for
>> >> >Fox News. Every month. Even if you never look at it.
>> >> Of course the same is true of CNN and MSNBC. The difference is that
>> >> Fox News had better negotiators.
>> >No. You have to order MSNBC and pay for it, as part of some package
>> >or other. They only get your $3 or so if you have asked to pay it.
>>
>> You can only get Fox News, CNN, or MSNBC by subscribing to some cable-
>> or satellite-provided service or to something like YouTube which you
>> will pay for. The cable/satellite channels get a "carriage fee".
>> Dunno about YouTube.
>
>Wrong end of the stick, as usual. You cannot NOT have $3 of your
>monthly cable bill go to Fox News, whereas if you don't choose to
>get MSNBC, it doesn't get any payment from you.
my choices are?
The basic cable package with my provider includes Fox News, MSNBC, and
CNN. I have no choice. There are seventyeleven other channels (that
are not the standard ABC, NBC, CBS channels) that come with that basic
cable package, and I never watch most of them. Comedy Central, yes,
Bravo on ocassion, and maybe a couple of others.
I did choose to add HBO and Showtime (a linked package).
>> You've used $3.00 for the Fox News amount, but what I find is that it
>> averages about $2.00 per month. If you can cite something that shows
>> $3.00, do so.
>
>It was on an NPR or more likely WNYC broadcast, probably "On the
>Media," within the last month or so.
the provider of the reporter's cable package, or the average for all
providers?
You do understand that there are many cable/satellite providers?
Viewership by channel will vary by area and carriage fees are based on
viewership. That's why "average" figures are used.
>> However, each cable/satellite provider has a contract that is renewed
>> each year and I can't find 2022 figures. The 2021 fee for Fox News
>> is about $2.00 on average and an average because each provider is not
>> paying the same fee. Each cable/satellite provider has a contract
>> that is renewed each year, so the numbers may change.
>>
>> MSNBC and CNN's carriage fees are much lower because the negotiations
>> and fees are based on viewership.
>>
>> However, each cable/satellite provider has a contract that is renewed
>> each year. The "average" is because each provider is paying the same
>> fee.
>>
>> This chart shows the fees for Fox News, MSNBC, and CNN. Someone who
>> watches Fox News but not MSNBC or CNN is paying for MSNBC and CNN.
>
>Since when?
>
>> https://www.pewresearch.org/journalism/chart/sotnm-cable-license-fee-revenue-for-cable-tv/
>
>That says ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about the question at hand --
>that you cannot opt out of paying for Fox News.
carriage fees for all channels is built into the provider's rates.
>Whereas if you want to watch MSNBC at all, you have to opt in
>and pay for it.
to tell me what my choices are?
The "opt in" aspect is which plan you subscribe to and what plans are
available from the provider in your area. In mine, there's no opt in
or opt out for either MSNBC or Fox News.
In your case, Xfinity (a provider in your area) would add both MSNBC
and Fox News (but both, not just either) if you take the next level up
from the minimum plan.
https://www.xfinity.com/learn/channel-lineup-bundles
>
>> I've included "satellite" providers because DISH TV and DIRECTTV.
>>
>> Personally, I don't understand the fooferaw about Fox New's carriage
>> fee. ESPN charges the highest carriage fee (over $5.00 per month) and
>> many cable/satellite subscribers have that in their package and never
>> watch it.
>
>Yes, you do understand nothing.
>
>No one is complaining that the fee is $3 instead of $2 or $4. The
>problem is that they have to pay it even if they would never ever
>tune it in and did not choose a premium package that included it.
All provider's rates include a cost factor to them of carriage fees.
>> I've included "satellite" providers because DISH TV and DIRECTTV.
>>
>> Personally, I don't understand the fooferaw about Fox New's carriage
>> fee. ESPN charges the highest carriage fee (over $5.00 per month) and
>> many cable/satellite subscribers have that in their package and never
>> watch it.
>
>Yes, you do understand nothing.
>
>No one is complaining that the fee is $3 instead of $2 or $4. The
>problem is that they have to pay it even if they would never ever
>tune it in and did not choose a premium package that included it.
Because they offer a channel in some plan, they will pay a carriage
fee to that channel. Subcribers can't opt out of any of those fees
from any channel.
>The existence of "packages" is a different evil relating to cable TV
>but that's not the problem here.
with optional extra "packages". No provider offers just an ala carte
choice of channels. Some offer a package and also the ability to add
extra channels, but the provider decides what's in the basic package.
What you don't seem to be able to understand is that carriage fees
paid to all channels are factored in in the provider's basic rates.
It's not just Fox New's carriage fees,
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