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Try to hurt us, we eat at P F Chang's
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Quinn C
Apr 27, 2018, 7:27:52 PM4/27/18
to
Can someone explain this joke to me (from Good Girls, S01E09):
| Because, you know,
| last time this happened
| you were all like,
| "Yeah, just try to hurt us.
| We eat at PF Chang's, bitch."
What does eating at P. F. Chang's make you? Used to hurt? Scared of
nothing? Rich?
To my surprise, there is a P. F. Chang's in Montreal.
--
Do not they speak false English ... that doth not speak thou to one,
and what ever he be, Father, Mother, King, or Judge, is he not a
Novice, and Unmannerly, and an Ideot, and a Fool, that speaks Your
to one, which is not to be spoken to a singular, but to many?
-- George Fox (1660)
| Because, you know,
| last time this happened
| you were all like,
| "Yeah, just try to hurt us.
| We eat at PF Chang's, bitch."
What does eating at P. F. Chang's make you? Used to hurt? Scared of
nothing? Rich?
To my surprise, there is a P. F. Chang's in Montreal.
--
Do not they speak false English ... that doth not speak thou to one,
and what ever he be, Father, Mother, King, or Judge, is he not a
Novice, and Unmannerly, and an Ideot, and a Fool, that speaks Your
to one, which is not to be spoken to a singular, but to many?
-- George Fox (1660)
Tony Cooper
Apr 27, 2018, 8:18:49 PM4/27/18
to
On Fri, 27 Apr 2018 19:27:59 -0400, Quinn C
<lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:
>Can someone explain this joke to me (from Good Girls, S01E09):
>
>| Because, you know,
>| last time this happened
>| you were all like,
>| "Yeah, just try to hurt us.
>| We eat at PF Chang's, bitch."
>
>What does eating at P. F. Chang's make you? Used to hurt? Scared of
>nothing? Rich?
>
>To my surprise, there is a P. F. Chang's in Montreal.
Not enough context, but P.F. Chang's is a rather upscale restaurant
<lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:
>Can someone explain this joke to me (from Good Girls, S01E09):
>
>| Because, you know,
>| last time this happened
>| you were all like,
>| "Yeah, just try to hurt us.
>| We eat at PF Chang's, bitch."
>
>What does eating at P. F. Chang's make you? Used to hurt? Scared of
>nothing? Rich?
>
>To my surprise, there is a P. F. Chang's in Montreal.
for Chinese food.
Should I put "Chinese" in scare quotes?
Looking at their online menu for the local P.F. Chang, I see that it's
a little more expensive than most neighborhood Chinese restaurants,
but not really at the high end.
"Orange Peel Chicken" is $14.50, and the same dish is $13.95 at the
place in our area that we'd normally go to, but that's also in the
almost-upscale range. At the more ordinary Chinese restaurant in this
area it's $10.95.
The P.F. Chang's here is noisy and attracts a social crowd that will
spend more on booze than food. The place in our area caters to a
rather quiet dinner group of older people. Drinks are served at the
table, but there's no bar area like there is at Chang's.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Tak To
Apr 27, 2018, 9:35:30 PM4/27/18
to
On 4/27/2018 7:27 PM, Quinn C wrote:
> Can someone explain this joke to me (from Good Girls, S01E09):
>
> | Because, you know,
> | last time this happened
> | you were all like,
> | "Yeah, just try to hurt us.
> | We eat at PF Chang's, bitch."
>
> What does eating at P. F. Chang's make you? Used to hurt? Scared of
> nothing? Rich?
No idea either. I wonder if the point is just that the person
> Can someone explain this joke to me (from Good Girls, S01E09):
>
> | Because, you know,
> | last time this happened
> | you were all like,
> | "Yeah, just try to hurt us.
> | We eat at PF Chang's, bitch."
>
> What does eating at P. F. Chang's make you? Used to hurt? Scared of
> nothing? Rich?
identified by "you" was able to baffle her then interlocutor
with something that is complete nonsensical and got out of
a tight situation.
--
Tak
----------------------------------------------------------------+-----
Tak To ta...@alum.mit.eduxx
--------------------------------------------------------------------^^
[taode takto ~{LU5B~}] NB: trim the xx to get my real email addr
Peter T. Daniels
Apr 27, 2018, 10:46:03 PM4/27/18
to
Red Lobster, Olive Garden, and TGIFriday. They serve food that's pretty to
look at and has no flavor.
Tony tends to miss the forest for the trees.
Horace LaBadie
Apr 28, 2018, 12:54:59 AM4/28/18
to
In article <1lu03u80...@mid.crommatograph.info>,
point Christina Hendricks' character convinced the gang boss that he
would be stupid to kill them. Her argument was that they were middle
class soccer moms who did all the typical middle class things such as
belong to the PTA and hold bake sales for little league or whatever.
Their deaths would be big news, and would inevitably put the gang boss
in the spotlight. So eating at P.F. Chang's would be yet another middle
class activity.
Quinn C <lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:
> Can someone explain this joke to me (from Good Girls, S01E09):
>
> | Because, you know,
> | last time this happened
> | you were all like,
> | "Yeah, just try to hurt us.
> | We eat at PF Chang's, bitch."
>
> What does eating at P. F. Chang's make you? Used to hurt? Scared of
> nothing? Rich?
>
> To my surprise, there is a P. F. Chang's in Montreal.
I stopped watching the show after about the third episode, but at one
> Can someone explain this joke to me (from Good Girls, S01E09):
>
> | Because, you know,
> | last time this happened
> | you were all like,
> | "Yeah, just try to hurt us.
> | We eat at PF Chang's, bitch."
>
> What does eating at P. F. Chang's make you? Used to hurt? Scared of
> nothing? Rich?
>
> To my surprise, there is a P. F. Chang's in Montreal.
point Christina Hendricks' character convinced the gang boss that he
would be stupid to kill them. Her argument was that they were middle
class soccer moms who did all the typical middle class things such as
belong to the PTA and hold bake sales for little league or whatever.
Their deaths would be big news, and would inevitably put the gang boss
in the spotlight. So eating at P.F. Chang's would be yet another middle
class activity.
Tony Cooper
Apr 28, 2018, 9:50:26 AM4/28/18
to
S01E09)" I take it that's a TV show.
Peter T. Daniels
Apr 28, 2018, 10:21:29 AM4/28/18
to
start -- a coven of middle-aged women (who may or may not be soccer moms?)
involved in a mob crime ring.
Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Apr 28, 2018, 10:30:11 AM4/28/18
to
to a UK series of about a decade ago, and even more so to the 2008
Queen Latifah film, Mad Money. I'm surprised somebody hasn't sued
for credit at the very least!
Peter T. Daniels
Apr 28, 2018, 10:35:29 AM4/28/18
to
"based on" information is given.
Quinn C
Apr 28, 2018, 12:37:44 PM4/28/18
to
* Tony Cooper:
> On Fri, 27 Apr 2018 19:27:59 -0400, Quinn C
> <lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:
>
>>Can someone explain this joke to me (from Good Girls, S01E09):
>>
>>| Because, you know,
>>| last time this happened
>>| you were all like,
>>| "Yeah, just try to hurt us.
>>| We eat at PF Chang's, bitch."
>>
>>What does eating at P. F. Chang's make you? Used to hurt? Scared of
>>nothing? Rich?
>>
>>To my surprise, there is a P. F. Chang's in Montreal.
>
> Not enough context, but P.F. Chang's is a rather upscale restaurant
> for Chinese food.
>
> Should I put "Chinese" in scare quotes?
Yes. Or not use it at all. Their Canadian website doesn't make any
claim to selling Chinese food, they call their stuff "Asian-inspired
haute cuisine". Where I'd put "haute cuisine" in scare quotes for sure.
> Looking at their online menu for the local P.F. Chang, I see that it's
> a little more expensive than most neighborhood Chinese restaurants,
> but not really at the high end.
>
> "Orange Peel Chicken" is $14.50, and the same dish is $13.95 at the
> place in our area that we'd normally go to, but that's also in the
> almost-upscale range. At the more ordinary Chinese restaurant in this
> area it's $10.95.
When I make that comparison locally, the difference is a little bigger
here ($21 - $14.95 - $11.75), but $21 isn't really expensive, either.
--
- It's the title search for the Rachel property.
Guess who owns it?
- Tell me it's not that bastard Donald Trump.
-- Gilmore Girls, S02E08 (2001)
> On Fri, 27 Apr 2018 19:27:59 -0400, Quinn C
> <lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:
>
>>Can someone explain this joke to me (from Good Girls, S01E09):
>>
>>| Because, you know,
>>| last time this happened
>>| you were all like,
>>| "Yeah, just try to hurt us.
>>| We eat at PF Chang's, bitch."
>>
>>What does eating at P. F. Chang's make you? Used to hurt? Scared of
>>nothing? Rich?
>>
>>To my surprise, there is a P. F. Chang's in Montreal.
>
> Not enough context, but P.F. Chang's is a rather upscale restaurant
> for Chinese food.
>
> Should I put "Chinese" in scare quotes?
claim to selling Chinese food, they call their stuff "Asian-inspired
haute cuisine". Where I'd put "haute cuisine" in scare quotes for sure.
> Looking at their online menu for the local P.F. Chang, I see that it's
> a little more expensive than most neighborhood Chinese restaurants,
> but not really at the high end.
>
> "Orange Peel Chicken" is $14.50, and the same dish is $13.95 at the
> place in our area that we'd normally go to, but that's also in the
> almost-upscale range. At the more ordinary Chinese restaurant in this
> area it's $10.95.
here ($21 - $14.95 - $11.75), but $21 isn't really expensive, either.
--
- It's the title search for the Rachel property.
Guess who owns it?
- Tell me it's not that bastard Donald Trump.
-- Gilmore Girls, S02E08 (2001)
Quinn C
Apr 28, 2018, 12:53:26 PM4/28/18
to
* Peter T. Daniels:
Well, if that's not your thing ... To me, a show in a capsule sounds
unappealing if it's centered around a hospital, or a 19th century
upper-class family, or the mob - in Good Girls, that's not the case -,
but such shows can still be brilliant - as well as execrable.
What makes it interesting to me is the way the three very different
women interact with each other and their situation. In fact, they're so
different they're a very unlikely trio. They made two of them sisters,
maybe to make it halfway believable.
Of course I'm aware of reasons that shows centered around female
protagonists tend to be less appealing to you, but more appealing to
me.
--
Performance: A statement of the speed at which a computer system
works. Or rather, might work under certain circumstances. Or was
rumored to be working over in Jersey about a month ago.
unappealing if it's centered around a hospital, or a 19th century
upper-class family, or the mob - in Good Girls, that's not the case -,
but such shows can still be brilliant - as well as execrable.
What makes it interesting to me is the way the three very different
women interact with each other and their situation. In fact, they're so
different they're a very unlikely trio. They made two of them sisters,
maybe to make it halfway believable.
Of course I'm aware of reasons that shows centered around female
protagonists tend to be less appealing to you, but more appealing to
me.
--
Performance: A statement of the speed at which a computer system
works. Or rather, might work under certain circumstances. Or was
rumored to be working over in Jersey about a month ago.
Peter T. Daniels
Apr 28, 2018, 3:36:05 PM4/28/18
to
season), Brothers and Sisters, Madam Secretary? (Admittedly I never tried
Sisters and abandoned Parenthood partway through the first episode.)
Ross
Apr 28, 2018, 4:48:50 PM4/28/18
to
(in the "Trivia" section) has already noted the similarity to Mad Money.
Mark Brader
Apr 28, 2018, 5:07:33 PM4/28/18
to
Tony Cooper:
that you'll find in a number of places, meaning episode 9 of season 1.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | Remember, folks, determinism is your *friend*!
m...@vex.net | (Or is that "Your friend is deterministic"?)
> That solves something not understandable to me: "(from Good Girls,
> S01E09)" I take it that's a TV show.
It must be. I hadn't heard of it either, but "S01E09" is a notation
> S01E09)" I take it that's a TV show.
that you'll find in a number of places, meaning episode 9 of season 1.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | Remember, folks, determinism is your *friend*!
m...@vex.net | (Or is that "Your friend is deterministic"?)
Tony Cooper
Apr 28, 2018, 5:17:11 PM4/28/18
to
On Sat, 28 Apr 2018 12:37:51 -0400, Quinn C
It may be just the US locations, but P.F. Chang's was owned by "P.F.
Chang's China Bistro, Inc.", but is now owned by Centerbridge
Partners.
I would say that $21 is expensive for a selection that is available in
other restraints for half that price.
Chang's China Bistro, Inc.", but is now owned by Centerbridge
Partners.
I would say that $21 is expensive for a selection that is available in
other restraints for half that price.
Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Apr 28, 2018, 5:19:38 PM4/28/18
to
Tony Cooper
Apr 28, 2018, 5:30:21 PM4/28/18
to
On Sat, 28 Apr 2018 12:53:33 -0400, Quinn C
<lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:
>Of course I'm aware of reasons that shows centered around female
>protagonists tend to be less appealing to you, but more appealing to
>me.
I am curious about why you would make that assumption about PTD. I
<lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:
>Of course I'm aware of reasons that shows centered around female
>protagonists tend to be less appealing to you, but more appealing to
>me.
certainly wouldn't, and I think I know as much about him as you do.
I know he has some prejudices against certain types of programming
(specifically, anything I like), but the gender of the protagonist
isn't one that I can determine.
From me, he would consider that comment of yours to be slur.
musika
Apr 28, 2018, 5:32:53 PM4/28/18
to
On 28/04/2018 22:17, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Sat, 28 Apr 2018 12:37:51 -0400, Quinn C
> On Sat, 28 Apr 2018 12:37:51 -0400, Quinn C
>> When I make that comparison locally, the difference is a little
>> bigger here ($21 - $14.95 - $11.75), but $21 isn't really
>> expensive, either.
>
> It may be just the US locations, but P.F. Chang's was owned by "P.F.
> Chang's China Bistro, Inc.", but is now owned by Centerbridge
> Partners.
>
> I would say that $21 is expensive for a selection that is available
> in other restraints for half that price.
>
Bring your own handcuffs?
>> bigger here ($21 - $14.95 - $11.75), but $21 isn't really
>> expensive, either.
>
> It may be just the US locations, but P.F. Chang's was owned by "P.F.
> Chang's China Bistro, Inc.", but is now owned by Centerbridge
> Partners.
>
> I would say that $21 is expensive for a selection that is available
> in other restraints for half that price.
>
--
Ray
UK
Tony Cooper
Apr 28, 2018, 6:11:08 PM4/28/18
to
spellcheck-caused errors.
Kerr-Mudd,John
Apr 29, 2018, 5:36:11 AM4/29/18
to
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
Kerr-Mudd,John
Apr 29, 2018, 5:38:11 AM4/29/18
to
Peter T. Daniels
Apr 29, 2018, 9:13:22 AM4/29/18
to
Middle Voice should only be wielded by people with considerable competence.
Quinn C
Apr 30, 2018, 1:14:22 PM4/30/18
to
* Tony Cooper:
> On Sat, 28 Apr 2018 12:53:33 -0400, Quinn C
> <lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:
>
>>Of course I'm aware of reasons that shows centered around female
>>protagonists tend to be less appealing to you, but more appealing to
>>me.
>
> I am curious about why you would make that assumption about PTD. I
> certainly wouldn't, and I think I know as much about him as you do.
>
> I know he has some prejudices against certain types of programming
> (specifically, anything I like), but the gender of the protagonist
> isn't one that I can determine.
This hypothesis of mine was based on the assumption that PTD might be
like most people - we like to see people who are somewhat like us to
identify with easier, and we like to look at people we find attractive.
In both of these aspects, gender often plays a role.
I only brought it up because there was very little in the "capsule" he
quoted that his disinclination could be based on.
> From me, he would consider that comment of yours to be slur.
I'm not sure. But even if, it *would* be a different situation.
--
Strategy: A long-range plan whose merit cannot be evaluated
until sometime after those creating it have left the organization.
> On Sat, 28 Apr 2018 12:53:33 -0400, Quinn C
> <lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:
>
>>Of course I'm aware of reasons that shows centered around female
>>protagonists tend to be less appealing to you, but more appealing to
>>me.
>
> I am curious about why you would make that assumption about PTD. I
> certainly wouldn't, and I think I know as much about him as you do.
>
> I know he has some prejudices against certain types of programming
> (specifically, anything I like), but the gender of the protagonist
> isn't one that I can determine.
like most people - we like to see people who are somewhat like us to
identify with easier, and we like to look at people we find attractive.
In both of these aspects, gender often plays a role.
I only brought it up because there was very little in the "capsule" he
quoted that his disinclination could be based on.
> From me, he would consider that comment of yours to be slur.
--
Strategy: A long-range plan whose merit cannot be evaluated
until sometime after those creating it have left the organization.
Quinn C
Apr 30, 2018, 1:43:59 PM4/30/18
to
* Tony Cooper:
I see that many locations actually have the words "China Bistro" above
the entrance. Not the ones in Canada, though.
The one in Montreal and one in neighboring Laval seem to be the only
Canadian locations at this point.
> I would say that $21 is expensive for a selection that is available in
> other restraints for half that price.
Nah, a factor of 2 can be easily justified by differences in quality of
ingredients, reliably good preparation, location, decoration, number of
staff etc.
I think my neighborhood place can only keep the prices that low because
a lot of their output - probably more than half - is for take-out.
--
Skyler: Uncle Cosmo ... why do they call this a word processor?
Cosmo: It's simple, Skyler ... you've seen what food processors
do to food, right?
Cartoon by Jeff MacNelley
the entrance. Not the ones in Canada, though.
The one in Montreal and one in neighboring Laval seem to be the only
Canadian locations at this point.
> I would say that $21 is expensive for a selection that is available in
> other restraints for half that price.
ingredients, reliably good preparation, location, decoration, number of
staff etc.
I think my neighborhood place can only keep the prices that low because
a lot of their output - probably more than half - is for take-out.
--
Skyler: Uncle Cosmo ... why do they call this a word processor?
Cosmo: It's simple, Skyler ... you've seen what food processors
do to food, right?
Cartoon by Jeff MacNelley
Tony Cooper
Apr 30, 2018, 2:16:25 PM4/30/18
to
On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 13:43:56 -0400, Quinn C
I would say that better ingredients and better preparation add to the
value, but the location, decoration, and staff number just add to the
cost.
"Justified", though, is something the customer believes. The customer
justifies paying more by accepting the ambience as a benefit.
I'm not sure about the "better ingredients", though. Organic cat, I
guess.
>
>I think my neighborhood place can only keep the prices that low because
>a lot of their output - probably more than half - is for take-out.
--
value, but the location, decoration, and staff number just add to the
cost.
"Justified", though, is something the customer believes. The customer
justifies paying more by accepting the ambience as a benefit.
I'm not sure about the "better ingredients", though. Organic cat, I
guess.
>
>I think my neighborhood place can only keep the prices that low because
>a lot of their output - probably more than half - is for take-out.
--
Tony Cooper
Apr 30, 2018, 2:22:35 PM4/30/18
to
On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 13:14:20 -0400, Quinn C
but not his strange obsession with "Keeping Up Appearances".
>
>I only brought it up because there was very little in the "capsule" he
>quoted that his disinclination could be based on.
>
>> From me, he would consider that comment of yours to be slur.
>
>I'm not sure. But even if, it *would* be a different situation.
--
<lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:
>* Tony Cooper:
>
>> On Sat, 28 Apr 2018 12:53:33 -0400, Quinn C
>> <lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:
>>
>>>Of course I'm aware of reasons that shows centered around female
>>>protagonists tend to be less appealing to you, but more appealing to
>>>me.
>>
>> I am curious about why you would make that assumption about PTD. I
>> certainly wouldn't, and I think I know as much about him as you do.
>>
>> I know he has some prejudices against certain types of programming
>> (specifically, anything I like), but the gender of the protagonist
>> isn't one that I can determine.
>
>This hypothesis of mine was based on the assumption that PTD might be
>like most people - we like to see people who are somewhat like us to
>identify with easier, and we like to look at people we find attractive.
>In both of these aspects, gender often plays a role.
That would explain his liking "Will and Grace" and "Modern Family",
>* Tony Cooper:
>
>> On Sat, 28 Apr 2018 12:53:33 -0400, Quinn C
>> <lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:
>>
>>>Of course I'm aware of reasons that shows centered around female
>>>protagonists tend to be less appealing to you, but more appealing to
>>>me.
>>
>> I am curious about why you would make that assumption about PTD. I
>> certainly wouldn't, and I think I know as much about him as you do.
>>
>> I know he has some prejudices against certain types of programming
>> (specifically, anything I like), but the gender of the protagonist
>> isn't one that I can determine.
>
>This hypothesis of mine was based on the assumption that PTD might be
>like most people - we like to see people who are somewhat like us to
>identify with easier, and we like to look at people we find attractive.
>In both of these aspects, gender often plays a role.
but not his strange obsession with "Keeping Up Appearances".
>
>I only brought it up because there was very little in the "capsule" he
>quoted that his disinclination could be based on.
>
>> From me, he would consider that comment of yours to be slur.
>
>I'm not sure. But even if, it *would* be a different situation.
--
Peter T. Daniels
Apr 30, 2018, 3:51:04 PM4/30/18
to
On Monday, April 30, 2018 at 1:14:22 PM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:
> * Tony Cooper:
> > On Sat, 28 Apr 2018 12:53:33 -0400, Quinn C
> > <lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:
> >>Of course I'm aware of reasons that shows centered around female
> >>protagonists tend to be less appealing to you, but more appealing to
> >>me.
> > I am curious about why you would make that assumption about PTD. I
> > certainly wouldn't, and I think I know as much about him as you do.
> >
> > I know he has some prejudices against certain types of programming
> > (specifically, anything I like), but the gender of the protagonist
> > isn't one that I can determine.
>
> This hypothesis of mine was based on the assumption that PTD might be
> like most people - we like to see people who are somewhat like us to
> identify with easier, and we like to look at people we find attractive.
> In both of these aspects, gender often plays a role.
>
> I only brought it up because there was very little in the "capsule" he
> quoted that his disinclination could be based on.
He has never seen a single episode of *The Sopranos*.
> * Tony Cooper:
> > On Sat, 28 Apr 2018 12:53:33 -0400, Quinn C
> > <lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:
> >>Of course I'm aware of reasons that shows centered around female
> >>protagonists tend to be less appealing to you, but more appealing to
> >>me.
> > I am curious about why you would make that assumption about PTD. I
> > certainly wouldn't, and I think I know as much about him as you do.
> >
> > I know he has some prejudices against certain types of programming
> > (specifically, anything I like), but the gender of the protagonist
> > isn't one that I can determine.
>
> This hypothesis of mine was based on the assumption that PTD might be
> like most people - we like to see people who are somewhat like us to
> identify with easier, and we like to look at people we find attractive.
> In both of these aspects, gender often plays a role.
>
> I only brought it up because there was very little in the "capsule" he
> quoted that his disinclination could be based on.
Peter T. Daniels
Apr 30, 2018, 3:53:04 PM4/30/18
to
On Monday, April 30, 2018 at 2:22:35 PM UTC-4, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 13:14:20 -0400, Quinn C
> <lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:
> >* Tony Cooper:
> >> On Sat, 28 Apr 2018 12:53:33 -0400, Quinn C
> >> <lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:
> >>>Of course I'm aware of reasons that shows centered around female
> >>>protagonists tend to be less appealing to you, but more appealing to
> >>>me.
> >> I am curious about why you would make that assumption about PTD. I
> >> certainly wouldn't, and I think I know as much about him as you do.
> >>
> >> I know he has some prejudices against certain types of programming
> >> (specifically, anything I like), but the gender of the protagonist
> >> isn't one that I can determine.
> >This hypothesis of mine was based on the assumption that PTD might be
> >like most people - we like to see people who are somewhat like us to
> >identify with easier, and we like to look at people we find attractive.
> >In both of these aspects, gender often plays a role.
>
> That would explain his liking "Will and Grace" and "Modern Family",
> but not his strange obsession with "Keeping Up Appearances".
? When did he last mention it? When did it cease being shown weekly on Thirteen?
> On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 13:14:20 -0400, Quinn C
> <lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:
> >* Tony Cooper:
> >> On Sat, 28 Apr 2018 12:53:33 -0400, Quinn C
> >> <lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:
> >>>Of course I'm aware of reasons that shows centered around female
> >>>protagonists tend to be less appealing to you, but more appealing to
> >>>me.
> >> I am curious about why you would make that assumption about PTD. I
> >> certainly wouldn't, and I think I know as much about him as you do.
> >>
> >> I know he has some prejudices against certain types of programming
> >> (specifically, anything I like), but the gender of the protagonist
> >> isn't one that I can determine.
> >This hypothesis of mine was based on the assumption that PTD might be
> >like most people - we like to see people who are somewhat like us to
> >identify with easier, and we like to look at people we find attractive.
> >In both of these aspects, gender often plays a role.
>
> That would explain his liking "Will and Grace" and "Modern Family",
> but not his strange obsession with "Keeping Up Appearances".
Prejudices and preconceptions are very difficult to shake.
Tony Cooper
Apr 30, 2018, 5:02:22 PM4/30/18
to
On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 12:51:01 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
<gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>On Monday, April 30, 2018 at 1:14:22 PM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:
>> * Tony Cooper:
>> > On Sat, 28 Apr 2018 12:53:33 -0400, Quinn C
>> > <lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:
>
>> >>Of course I'm aware of reasons that shows centered around female
>> >>protagonists tend to be less appealing to you, but more appealing to
>> >>me.
>> > I am curious about why you would make that assumption about PTD. I
>> > certainly wouldn't, and I think I know as much about him as you do.
>> >
>> > I know he has some prejudices against certain types of programming
>> > (specifically, anything I like), but the gender of the protagonist
>> > isn't one that I can determine.
>>
>> This hypothesis of mine was based on the assumption that PTD might be
>> like most people - we like to see people who are somewhat like us to
>> identify with easier, and we like to look at people we find attractive.
>> In both of these aspects, gender often plays a role.
>>
>> I only brought it up because there was very little in the "capsule" he
>> quoted that his disinclination could be based on.
>
>He has never seen a single episode of *The Sopranos*.
Non sequitur, which is Latin for "Whaddafuck?"
<gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>On Monday, April 30, 2018 at 1:14:22 PM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:
>> * Tony Cooper:
>> > On Sat, 28 Apr 2018 12:53:33 -0400, Quinn C
>> > <lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:
>
>> >>Of course I'm aware of reasons that shows centered around female
>> >>protagonists tend to be less appealing to you, but more appealing to
>> >>me.
>> > I am curious about why you would make that assumption about PTD. I
>> > certainly wouldn't, and I think I know as much about him as you do.
>> >
>> > I know he has some prejudices against certain types of programming
>> > (specifically, anything I like), but the gender of the protagonist
>> > isn't one that I can determine.
>>
>> This hypothesis of mine was based on the assumption that PTD might be
>> like most people - we like to see people who are somewhat like us to
>> identify with easier, and we like to look at people we find attractive.
>> In both of these aspects, gender often plays a role.
>>
>> I only brought it up because there was very little in the "capsule" he
>> quoted that his disinclination could be based on.
>
>He has never seen a single episode of *The Sopranos*.
>> > From me, he would consider that comment of yours to be slur.
>>
>> I'm not sure. But even if, it *would* be a different situation.
Peter T. Daniels
Apr 30, 2018, 5:05:28 PM4/30/18
to
On Monday, April 30, 2018 at 5:02:22 PM UTC-4, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 12:51:01 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >On Monday, April 30, 2018 at 1:14:22 PM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:
> >> * Tony Cooper:
> >> > On Sat, 28 Apr 2018 12:53:33 -0400, Quinn C
> >> > <lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:
> >> >>Of course I'm aware of reasons that shows centered around female
> >> >>protagonists tend to be less appealing to you, but more appealing to
> >> >>me.
> >> > I am curious about why you would make that assumption about PTD. I
> >> > certainly wouldn't, and I think I know as much about him as you do.
> >> >
> >> > I know he has some prejudices against certain types of programming
> >> > (specifically, anything I like), but the gender of the protagonist
> >> > isn't one that I can determine.
> >> This hypothesis of mine was based on the assumption that PTD might be
> >> like most people - we like to see people who are somewhat like us to
> >> identify with easier, and we like to look at people we find attractive.
> >> In both of these aspects, gender often plays a role.
> >> I only brought it up because there was very little in the "capsule" he
> >> quoted that his disinclination could be based on.
> >He has never seen a single episode of *The Sopranos*.
>
> Non sequitur, which is Latin for "Whaddafuck?"
You must have failed to read the description of *Good Girls*.
> On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 12:51:01 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >On Monday, April 30, 2018 at 1:14:22 PM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:
> >> * Tony Cooper:
> >> > On Sat, 28 Apr 2018 12:53:33 -0400, Quinn C
> >> > <lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:
> >> >>Of course I'm aware of reasons that shows centered around female
> >> >>protagonists tend to be less appealing to you, but more appealing to
> >> >>me.
> >> > I am curious about why you would make that assumption about PTD. I
> >> > certainly wouldn't, and I think I know as much about him as you do.
> >> >
> >> > I know he has some prejudices against certain types of programming
> >> > (specifically, anything I like), but the gender of the protagonist
> >> > isn't one that I can determine.
> >> This hypothesis of mine was based on the assumption that PTD might be
> >> like most people - we like to see people who are somewhat like us to
> >> identify with easier, and we like to look at people we find attractive.
> >> In both of these aspects, gender often plays a role.
> >> I only brought it up because there was very little in the "capsule" he
> >> quoted that his disinclination could be based on.
> >He has never seen a single episode of *The Sopranos*.
>
> Non sequitur, which is Latin for "Whaddafuck?"
Quinn C
Apr 30, 2018, 11:03:45 PM4/30/18
to
* Horace LaBadie:
> In article <1lu03u80...@mid.crommatograph.info>,
follow in real time.
--
The least questioned assumptions are often the most questionable
-- Paul Broca
... who never questioned that men are more intelligent than women
> In article <1lu03u80...@mid.crommatograph.info>,
> Quinn C <lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:
>
>> Can someone explain this joke to me (from Good Girls, S01E09):
>>
>>| Because, you know,
>>| last time this happened
>>| you were all like,
>>| "Yeah, just try to hurt us.
>>| We eat at PF Chang's, bitch."
>>
>> What does eating at P. F. Chang's make you? Used to hurt? Scared of
>> nothing? Rich?
>>
>> To my surprise, there is a P. F. Chang's in Montreal.
>
>
>> Can someone explain this joke to me (from Good Girls, S01E09):
>>
>>| Because, you know,
>>| last time this happened
>>| you were all like,
>>| "Yeah, just try to hurt us.
>>| We eat at PF Chang's, bitch."
>>
>> What does eating at P. F. Chang's make you? Used to hurt? Scared of
>> nothing? Rich?
>>
>> To my surprise, there is a P. F. Chang's in Montreal.
>
> I stopped watching the show after about the third episode, but at one
> point Christina Hendricks' character convinced the gang boss that he
> would be stupid to kill them. Her argument was that they were middle
> class soccer moms who did all the typical middle class things such as
> belong to the PTA and hold bake sales for little league or whatever.
> Their deaths would be big news, and would inevitably put the gang boss
> in the spotlight. So eating at P.F. Chang's would be yet another middle
> class activity.
That makes sense, but would definitely be too difficult for me to
> point Christina Hendricks' character convinced the gang boss that he
> would be stupid to kill them. Her argument was that they were middle
> class soccer moms who did all the typical middle class things such as
> belong to the PTA and hold bake sales for little league or whatever.
> Their deaths would be big news, and would inevitably put the gang boss
> in the spotlight. So eating at P.F. Chang's would be yet another middle
> class activity.
follow in real time.
--
The least questioned assumptions are often the most questionable
-- Paul Broca
... who never questioned that men are more intelligent than women
Quinn C
Apr 30, 2018, 11:10:59 PM4/30/18
to
you say it's not there, I'm going to accept that until I have more
information.
Is Brothers and Sisters a female-focused show? It sounds like it would
be balanced. Also, didn't you hate Calista F.?
Quinn C
Apr 30, 2018, 11:14:30 PM4/30/18
to
* Peter T. Daniels:
> On Monday, April 30, 2018 at 1:14:22 PM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:
>> * Tony Cooper:
>>> On Sat, 28 Apr 2018 12:53:33 -0400, Quinn C
>>> <lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:
>
>>>>Of course I'm aware of reasons that shows centered around female
>>>>protagonists tend to be less appealing to you, but more appealing to
>>>>me.
>>> I am curious about why you would make that assumption about PTD. I
>>> certainly wouldn't, and I think I know as much about him as you do.
>>>
>>> I know he has some prejudices against certain types of programming
>>> (specifically, anything I like), but the gender of the protagonist
>>> isn't one that I can determine.
>>
>> This hypothesis of mine was based on the assumption that PTD might be
>> like most people - we like to see people who are somewhat like us to
>> identify with easier, and we like to look at people we find attractive.
>> In both of these aspects, gender often plays a role.
>>
>> I only brought it up because there was very little in the "capsule" he
>> quoted that his disinclination could be based on.
>
> He has never seen a single episode of *The Sopranos*.
Neither have I. As I said, Good Girls isn't focused on the mob. After
nine episodes, the women are still trying to figure out the names and
roles of the three mob people they sometimes meet (of whom only one
actually interacts with them.)
--
Certain writers assert very decidedly that no pronouns are
needed beyond those we already possess, but this is simply a
dogmatic opinion, unsupported by the facts.
-- Findlay (OH) Jeffersonian (1875)
> On Monday, April 30, 2018 at 1:14:22 PM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:
>> * Tony Cooper:
>>> On Sat, 28 Apr 2018 12:53:33 -0400, Quinn C
>>> <lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:
>
>>>>Of course I'm aware of reasons that shows centered around female
>>>>protagonists tend to be less appealing to you, but more appealing to
>>>>me.
>>> I am curious about why you would make that assumption about PTD. I
>>> certainly wouldn't, and I think I know as much about him as you do.
>>>
>>> I know he has some prejudices against certain types of programming
>>> (specifically, anything I like), but the gender of the protagonist
>>> isn't one that I can determine.
>>
>> This hypothesis of mine was based on the assumption that PTD might be
>> like most people - we like to see people who are somewhat like us to
>> identify with easier, and we like to look at people we find attractive.
>> In both of these aspects, gender often plays a role.
>>
>> I only brought it up because there was very little in the "capsule" he
>> quoted that his disinclination could be based on.
>
> He has never seen a single episode of *The Sopranos*.
nine episodes, the women are still trying to figure out the names and
roles of the three mob people they sometimes meet (of whom only one
actually interacts with them.)
--
Certain writers assert very decidedly that no pronouns are
needed beyond those we already possess, but this is simply a
dogmatic opinion, unsupported by the facts.
-- Findlay (OH) Jeffersonian (1875)
Peter T. Daniels
Apr 30, 2018, 11:29:31 PM4/30/18
to
the failure of the family's winery, the death of her husband (Tom Skerrit,
seen in occasional flashbacks), and on top of it all the family is Jewish.
It was a shock that it was cancelled before its fifth season. (Same thing
happened to *The OC*. Evening "continuing dramas" seem to have a natural
lifespan of five seasons -- cable series with their much shorter seasons
can go longer -- so when they're cut short, or as with *Lost* unexpectedly
renewed for a sixth season, things can go awry. I should have added
*Nashville* to my female-centered series, which instead of being canceled
moved to cable, and then Connie Britton told Colbert that her character
had been killed off!)
Cheryl
May 1, 2018, 4:58:06 AM5/1/18
to
On 2018-04-30 2:44 PM, Quinn C wrote:
> * Tony Cooper:
>
>> On Sat, 28 Apr 2018 12:53:33 -0400, Quinn C
>> <lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:
>>
>>> Of course I'm aware of reasons that shows centered around female
>>> protagonists tend to be less appealing to you, but more appealing to
>>> me.
>>
>> I am curious about why you would make that assumption about PTD. I
>> certainly wouldn't, and I think I know as much about him as you do.
>>
>> I know he has some prejudices against certain types of programming
>> (specifically, anything I like), but the gender of the protagonist
>> isn't one that I can determine.
>
> This hypothesis of mine was based on the assumption that PTD might be
> like most people - we like to see people who are somewhat like us to
> identify with easier, and we like to look at people we find attractive.
> In both of these aspects, gender often plays a role.
I'm not sure about that. I watch almost no series TV, but based on
> * Tony Cooper:
>
>> On Sat, 28 Apr 2018 12:53:33 -0400, Quinn C
>> <lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:
>>
>>> Of course I'm aware of reasons that shows centered around female
>>> protagonists tend to be less appealing to you, but more appealing to
>>> me.
>>
>> I am curious about why you would make that assumption about PTD. I
>> certainly wouldn't, and I think I know as much about him as you do.
>>
>> I know he has some prejudices against certain types of programming
>> (specifically, anything I like), but the gender of the protagonist
>> isn't one that I can determine.
>
> This hypothesis of mine was based on the assumption that PTD might be
> like most people - we like to see people who are somewhat like us to
> identify with easier, and we like to look at people we find attractive.
> In both of these aspects, gender often plays a role.
books, I've often thought that I prefer the different and even exotic to
one feature someone like me, or like people I know well. There also used
to be a generalization among some librarians that boys generally read
only books featuring male protagonists, but girls will read books
feather either male or female protagonists. I certainly followed that
pattern as a girl. I suppose I still do, although I don't keep a record
of my reading.
--
Cheryl
Madrigal Gurneyhalt
May 1, 2018, 7:36:22 AM5/1/18
to
being alive while Dad is dead, overpower the boys by being played by
Sally Field, Calista Flockhart, and Rachel Griffiths against some very
less well known male leads, and of course one of the boys is gay. So
yes, pretty much female-focused. Great show but it knew its market!
CDB
May 1, 2018, 9:07:03 AM5/1/18
to
On 5/1/2018 4:57 AM, Cheryl wrote:
> Quinn C wrote:
>> * Tony Cooper:
> Quinn C wrote:
>> * Tony Cooper:
Nancy Drew to the Hardy Boys: the Boys were recent, sketchily-written,
formulaic stuff, while Nancy (written in the '30s) offered old stuff I
didn't know about -- roadsters, Chinese characters, trust funds --
written in better style. I had to smuggle them home from the library,
though.
Peter T. Daniels
May 1, 2018, 9:37:36 AM5/1/18
to
On Monday, April 30, 2018 at 11:10:59 PM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:
> Is Brothers and Sisters a female-focused show? It sounds like it would
> be balanced. Also, didn't you hate Calista F.?
I managed to not see the closing question until Maddie quoted it. "Hate"
> Is Brothers and Sisters a female-focused show? It sounds like it would
> be balanced. Also, didn't you hate Calista F.?
is inappropriate. I disliked her before and after *Brothers and Sisters*
-- *Ally McBeal* was the only David E. Kelley series I didn't watch (that
I know of), and she was the very first reason to be put off by *Supergirl*
(other reasons emerged over the next few episodes, and CBS came to its
senses).
Peter T. Daniels
May 1, 2018, 9:41:31 AM5/1/18
to
On Tuesday, May 1, 2018 at 9:07:03 AM UTC-4, CDB wrote:
> In my own experience, a lot of that was social pressure. I preferred
> Nancy Drew to the Hardy Boys: the Boys were recent, sketchily-written,
> formulaic stuff, while Nancy (written in the '30s) offered old stuff I
> didn't know about -- roadsters, Chinese characters, trust funds --
> written in better style. I had to smuggle them home from the library,
> though.
The NYPL wouldn't carry those children's serials. I got to buy another
> In my own experience, a lot of that was social pressure. I preferred
> Nancy Drew to the Hardy Boys: the Boys were recent, sketchily-written,
> formulaic stuff, while Nancy (written in the '30s) offered old stuff I
> didn't know about -- roadsters, Chinese characters, trust funds --
> written in better style. I had to smuggle them home from the library,
> though.
Hardy Boys each time I went to my father's office. Never tried Nancy Drew,
but preferred Rick Brant (science-oriented). Note that all the ones that
are still sold have mostly been rewritten to remove the racism and other
inappropriate remarks, and also to dumb down the language for the less
literate children of today.
Horace LaBadie
May 1, 2018, 9:43:21 AM5/1/18
to
In article <pc9opi$1nvn$2...@gioia.aioe.org>, CDB <belle...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Leslie McFarlane, the Canadian author, wrote twenty-one of the Hardy
Boys mysteries, most of them in the thirties and forties. He was the
original Franklin W. Dixon. McFarlane hated the books.
Look up The Ghost of the Hardy Boys by Gene Weingarten. It's collected
with other of his long features in The FIddler in the Subway.
wrote:
Boys mysteries, most of them in the thirties and forties. He was the
original Franklin W. Dixon. McFarlane hated the books.
Look up The Ghost of the Hardy Boys by Gene Weingarten. It's collected
with other of his long features in The FIddler in the Subway.
Jerry Friedman
May 1, 2018, 9:55:56 AM5/1/18
to
On 5/1/18 7:06 AM, CDB wrote:
[boys will read boys]
> In my own experience, a lot of that was social pressure. I preferred
> Nancy Drew to the Hardy Boys: the Boys were recent, sketchily-written,
> formulaic stuff, while Nancy (written in the '30s) offered old stuff I
> didn't know about -- roadsters, Chinese characters, trust funds --
> written in better style. I had to smuggle them home from the library,
> though.
I see, not Chinese characters, Chinese /characters/.
--
Jerry Friedman
[boys will read boys]
> In my own experience, a lot of that was social pressure. I preferred
> Nancy Drew to the Hardy Boys: the Boys were recent, sketchily-written,
> formulaic stuff, while Nancy (written in the '30s) offered old stuff I
> didn't know about -- roadsters, Chinese characters, trust funds --
> written in better style. I had to smuggle them home from the library,
> though.
--
Jerry Friedman
CDB
May 1, 2018, 11:08:24 AM5/1/18
to
On 5/1/2018 9:43 AM, Horace LaBadie wrote:
I will look out for it, thanks. Bad style has to be very bad, for a
ten-year-old to notice it.
ten-year-old to notice it.
CDB
May 1, 2018, 11:08:30 AM5/1/18
to
may have been bowdlerised too). Numbers of Chinese characters, mostly
illiterate.
Quinn C
May 1, 2018, 12:50:50 PM5/1/18
to
* Cheryl:
> On 2018-04-30 2:44 PM, Quinn C wrote:
>> * Tony Cooper:
>>
>>> On Sat, 28 Apr 2018 12:53:33 -0400, Quinn C
>>> <lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Of course I'm aware of reasons that shows centered around female
>>>> protagonists tend to be less appealing to you, but more appealing to
>>>> me.
>>>
>>> I am curious about why you would make that assumption about PTD. I
>>> certainly wouldn't, and I think I know as much about him as you do.
>>>
>>> I know he has some prejudices against certain types of programming
>>> (specifically, anything I like), but the gender of the protagonist
>>> isn't one that I can determine.
>>
>> This hypothesis of mine was based on the assumption that PTD might be
>> like most people - we like to see people who are somewhat like us to
>> identify with easier, and we like to look at people we find attractive.
>> In both of these aspects, gender often plays a role.
>
> I'm not sure about that. I watch almost no series TV, but based on
> books, I've often thought that I prefer the different and even exotic to
> one feature someone like me, or like people I know well.
Well, that's certainly another reason to read or watch something, but I
stand by my opinion above on people's general preference.
I do tire of TV series where I find none of the characters sympathetic
or relatable. That's probably less pronounced in books, and even
movies.
> There also used
> to be a generalization among some librarians that boys generally read
> only books featuring male protagonists, but girls will read books
> feather either male or female protagonists. I certainly followed that
> pattern as a girl. I suppose I still do, although I don't keep a record
> of my reading.
Yes, but the usual explanations I hear for that are
- existing stories with female protagonists don't offer enough variety
for contemporary girls
- having male-associated interests (and traits) as a girl is more
socially acceptable than the opposite
I was actually very surprised to learn, as an adult, that many people
find it difficult or don't like to identify with characters of a
different gender. Like most of us, I started out thinking being like me
is normal, and that included seeing myself reflected in both boys and
girls easily.
While in my case it may be easily explained by my gender
non-conformity, in general I don't think by itself it's an indication
of such. Well functioning empathy is enough. Ah, see, that could be one
more reason why girls are more willing to read male-centered stories.
--
Pentiums melt in your PC, not in your hand.
> On 2018-04-30 2:44 PM, Quinn C wrote:
>> * Tony Cooper:
>>
>>> On Sat, 28 Apr 2018 12:53:33 -0400, Quinn C
>>> <lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Of course I'm aware of reasons that shows centered around female
>>>> protagonists tend to be less appealing to you, but more appealing to
>>>> me.
>>>
>>> I am curious about why you would make that assumption about PTD. I
>>> certainly wouldn't, and I think I know as much about him as you do.
>>>
>>> I know he has some prejudices against certain types of programming
>>> (specifically, anything I like), but the gender of the protagonist
>>> isn't one that I can determine.
>>
>> This hypothesis of mine was based on the assumption that PTD might be
>> like most people - we like to see people who are somewhat like us to
>> identify with easier, and we like to look at people we find attractive.
>> In both of these aspects, gender often plays a role.
>
> I'm not sure about that. I watch almost no series TV, but based on
> books, I've often thought that I prefer the different and even exotic to
> one feature someone like me, or like people I know well.
stand by my opinion above on people's general preference.
I do tire of TV series where I find none of the characters sympathetic
or relatable. That's probably less pronounced in books, and even
movies.
> There also used
> to be a generalization among some librarians that boys generally read
> only books featuring male protagonists, but girls will read books
> feather either male or female protagonists. I certainly followed that
> pattern as a girl. I suppose I still do, although I don't keep a record
> of my reading.
- existing stories with female protagonists don't offer enough variety
for contemporary girls
- having male-associated interests (and traits) as a girl is more
socially acceptable than the opposite
I was actually very surprised to learn, as an adult, that many people
find it difficult or don't like to identify with characters of a
different gender. Like most of us, I started out thinking being like me
is normal, and that included seeing myself reflected in both boys and
girls easily.
While in my case it may be easily explained by my gender
non-conformity, in general I don't think by itself it's an indication
of such. Well functioning empathy is enough. Ah, see, that could be one
more reason why girls are more willing to read male-centered stories.
--
Pentiums melt in your PC, not in your hand.
Quinn C
May 1, 2018, 12:50:50 PM5/1/18
to
* CDB:
To consciously notice it, sure, but at least certain types of bad style
can turn a ten-year-old off.
--
The Internet? Is that thing still around? - Homer Simpson
can turn a ten-year-old off.
--
The Internet? Is that thing still around? - Homer Simpson
Madrigal Gurneyhalt
May 1, 2018, 12:59:02 PM5/1/18
to
make me odd?
Tony Cooper
May 1, 2018, 3:05:20 PM5/1/18
to
On Tue, 1 May 2018 09:58:59 -0700 (PDT), Madrigal Gurneyhalt
<purpl...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> Well, that's certainly another reason to read or watch something, but I
>> stand by my opinion above on people's general preference.
>>
>> I do tire of TV series where I find none of the characters sympathetic
>> or relatable. That's probably less pronounced in books, and even
>> movies.
>>
>> > There also used
>> > to be a generalization among some librarians that boys generally read
>> > only books featuring male protagonists, but girls will read books
>> > feather either male or female protagonists. I certainly followed that
>> > pattern as a girl. I suppose I still do, although I don't keep a record
>> > of my reading.
>>
>> Yes, but the usual explanations I hear for that are
>> - existing stories with female protagonists don't offer enough variety
>> for contemporary girls
>> - having male-associated interests (and traits) as a girl is more
>> socially acceptable than the opposite
>>
>> I was actually very surprised to learn, as an adult, that many people
>> find it difficult or don't like to identify with characters of a
>> different gender.
>
>Really? Pretty much all the books I read have female leads. Does this
>make me odd?
The world of fiction is far more advanced in gender equality than the
<purpl...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> Well, that's certainly another reason to read or watch something, but I
>> stand by my opinion above on people's general preference.
>>
>> I do tire of TV series where I find none of the characters sympathetic
>> or relatable. That's probably less pronounced in books, and even
>> movies.
>>
>> > There also used
>> > to be a generalization among some librarians that boys generally read
>> > only books featuring male protagonists, but girls will read books
>> > feather either male or female protagonists. I certainly followed that
>> > pattern as a girl. I suppose I still do, although I don't keep a record
>> > of my reading.
>>
>> Yes, but the usual explanations I hear for that are
>> - existing stories with female protagonists don't offer enough variety
>> for contemporary girls
>> - having male-associated interests (and traits) as a girl is more
>> socially acceptable than the opposite
>>
>> I was actually very surprised to learn, as an adult, that many people
>> find it difficult or don't like to identify with characters of a
>> different gender.
>
>Really? Pretty much all the books I read have female leads. Does this
>make me odd?
corporate world. Based only on what I observe at the library, more of
today's fiction is written by females than males. Female authors tend
to have female protagonists.
I lean toward the mystery genre, and think of PD James, Kathy Reichs,
Janet Evanovich, Mary Higgins Clark, Ruth Rendell, and - of course -
Patricia Cornwell in this group. (Omission doesn't mean I haven't
read them; inclusion doesn't mean I do.)
TV - especially Brit TV - is not that far behind. We're currently
watching "Unforgotten" (Nicola Walker) and "Call The Midwife". Looking
forward to a new season of "Last Tango in Halifax" (Nicola Walker,
again, but shares the lead), "Shameless", "Veep", and "Victoria" and
anything with Sara Lancashire in the lead.
I can't imagine choosing a television program because I identify with
the character or find the character attractive. Why would I watch a
show with an elderly, bald, big-nosed, retired businessman as the lead
character?
RH Draney
May 1, 2018, 3:14:03 PM5/1/18
to
Flockhart had a great bit early in the second season in which we find
Cat Grant dictating a letter turning down a date with Harrison Ford,
explaining that she doesn't date older men, and especially not ones who
are married....r
RH Draney
May 1, 2018, 3:16:14 PM5/1/18
to
named, respectively, Alice and Dorothy....r
David Kleinecke
May 1, 2018, 4:12:11 PM5/1/18
to
Rich Ulrich
May 1, 2018, 5:28:53 PM5/1/18
to
On Tue, 01 May 2018 15:05:15 -0400, Tony Cooper
<tonyco...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>The world of fiction is far more advanced in gender equality than the
>corporate world. Based only on what I observe at the library, more of
>today's fiction is written by females than males. Female authors tend
>to have female protagonists.
>
>I lean toward the mystery genre, and think of PD James, Kathy Reichs,
>Janet Evanovich, Mary Higgins Clark, Ruth Rendell, and - of course -
>Patricia Cornwell in this group. (Omission doesn't mean I haven't
>read them; inclusion doesn't mean I do.)
I read a half-dozen or more of KR and JE before I quit on them.
<tonyco...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>The world of fiction is far more advanced in gender equality than the
>corporate world. Based only on what I observe at the library, more of
>today's fiction is written by females than males. Female authors tend
>to have female protagonists.
>
>I lean toward the mystery genre, and think of PD James, Kathy Reichs,
>Janet Evanovich, Mary Higgins Clark, Ruth Rendell, and - of course -
>Patricia Cornwell in this group. (Omission doesn't mean I haven't
>read them; inclusion doesn't mean I do.)
I quit earlier on the other ones named. I look to female authors
for mysteries because so many of the male authors when I started
were distastefully macho and sexist.
When I branched out from reading sci-fi in the 1990s, blatant
sexism seemed more prevalent in mysteries than it had been in sci-fi.
In mysteries, there were exceptions like John D. MacDonald, Donald
Westlake, and Lawrence Block ... but they did seem like exceptions.
I still look forward to new books by Carol O'Connell, JA Jance,
Laura Lippman, Laurie R. King, Karin Slaughter, Margaret Maron, et al.
Female leads, mostly.
--
Rich Ulrich
Peter T. Daniels
May 1, 2018, 5:33:21 PM5/1/18
to
On Tuesday, May 1, 2018 at 3:05:20 PM UTC-4, Tony Cooper wrote:
> I can't imagine choosing a television program because I identify with
> the character or find the character attractive. Why would I watch a
> show with an elderly, bald, big-nosed, retired businessman as the lead
> character?
Because he was played by Judd Hirsch? (Except for the bald part.) He can do
> I can't imagine choosing a television program because I identify with
> the character or find the character attractive. Why would I watch a
> show with an elderly, bald, big-nosed, retired businessman as the lead
> character?
NO wrong. Even *Taxi* was occasionally bearable despite the presence of Andy
Kaufman, Tony Danza, and Christopher Lloyd.
Peter T. Daniels
May 1, 2018, 5:34:35 PM5/1/18
to
wikiparticle to find her number of l's.
Quinn C
May 1, 2018, 5:38:39 PM5/1/18
to
* Tony Cooper:
That sounds like you have no idea what "identifying with a character"
means.
Do you really watch every show as a detached, anthropological observer,
suppressing any emotions you would have towards the situations
depicted, so as not to get confused over the reactions you see in those
"alien" people?
What do you think your average 10-year old girl looks like who
supposedly identifies more easily with Wonder Woman than with
Spiderman?
And as for the aspect of looking at attractive people, if that wasn't
an important consideration, the cast of pretty much any TV show would
look *very* different.
Especially US TV. Just compare the number of - to take your own example
- grossly overweight shoppers at a random Walmart, and grossly
overweight characters in a random TV show.
Or to quote another observation of yours:
| Another major difference between real life and Grey's Anatomy is that
| I rarely saw an attractive female doctor. They weren't all bone-ugly,
| but very few were head-turners.
People might not care as much as the producers seem to think, but if
you don't care about that at all, I'd say you're an exception. Then
again, why would you have written the above?
--
*Multitasking* /v./ Screwing up several things at once
means.
Do you really watch every show as a detached, anthropological observer,
suppressing any emotions you would have towards the situations
depicted, so as not to get confused over the reactions you see in those
"alien" people?
What do you think your average 10-year old girl looks like who
supposedly identifies more easily with Wonder Woman than with
Spiderman?
And as for the aspect of looking at attractive people, if that wasn't
an important consideration, the cast of pretty much any TV show would
look *very* different.
Especially US TV. Just compare the number of - to take your own example
- grossly overweight shoppers at a random Walmart, and grossly
overweight characters in a random TV show.
Or to quote another observation of yours:
| Another major difference between real life and Grey's Anatomy is that
| I rarely saw an attractive female doctor. They weren't all bone-ugly,
| but very few were head-turners.
People might not care as much as the producers seem to think, but if
you don't care about that at all, I'd say you're an exception. Then
again, why would you have written the above?
--
*Multitasking* /v./ Screwing up several things at once
Peter T. Daniels
May 1, 2018, 5:46:53 PM5/1/18
to
On Tuesday, May 1, 2018 at 5:38:39 PM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:
> What do you think your average 10-year old girl looks like who
> supposedly identifies more easily with Wonder Woman than with
> Spiderman?
Did Wonder Woman ever kiss anyone upside down? Now _that_ was an iconic moment!
> What do you think your average 10-year old girl looks like who
> supposedly identifies more easily with Wonder Woman than with
> Spiderman?
> Especially US TV. Just compare the number of - to take your own example
> - grossly overweight shoppers at a random Walmart, and grossly
> overweight characters in a random TV show.
than they were 20 years ago when we last saw them.) (Kevin James is also
smaller than he was when he was King of Queens. And Als Roker and Sharpton
look positively undernourished.)
Quinn C
May 1, 2018, 5:57:34 PM5/1/18
to
* Peter T. Daniels:
> On Tuesday, May 1, 2018 at 5:38:39 PM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:
>
>> What do you think your average 10-year old girl looks like who
>> supposedly identifies more easily with Wonder Woman than with
>> Spiderman?
>
> Did Wonder Woman ever kiss anyone upside down? Now _that_ was an iconic moment!
True, and who'd hang upside down more often than little girls?
>> Especially US TV. Just compare the number of - to take your own example
>> - grossly overweight shoppers at a random Walmart, and grossly
>> overweight characters in a random TV show.
>
> Is that why they flock hard to *Rosanne*? (Though both are much svelter
> than they were 20 years ago when we last saw them.) (Kevin James is also
> smaller than he was when he was King of Queens. And Als Roker and Sharpton
> look positively undernourished.)
As I said, the audience probably doesn't care as much as the producers
think. But Roseanne's (original) success stems from presenting a
mom/family who's more "normal" than usually seen on TV, i.e. covering
the aspect of identification rather than attractiveness.
--
Software is getting slower
more rapidly than hardware becomes faster
--Wirth's law
> On Tuesday, May 1, 2018 at 5:38:39 PM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:
>
>> What do you think your average 10-year old girl looks like who
>> supposedly identifies more easily with Wonder Woman than with
>> Spiderman?
>
> Did Wonder Woman ever kiss anyone upside down? Now _that_ was an iconic moment!
>> Especially US TV. Just compare the number of - to take your own example
>> - grossly overweight shoppers at a random Walmart, and grossly
>> overweight characters in a random TV show.
>
> Is that why they flock hard to *Rosanne*? (Though both are much svelter
> than they were 20 years ago when we last saw them.) (Kevin James is also
> smaller than he was when he was King of Queens. And Als Roker and Sharpton
> look positively undernourished.)
think. But Roseanne's (original) success stems from presenting a
mom/family who's more "normal" than usually seen on TV, i.e. covering
the aspect of identification rather than attractiveness.
--
Software is getting slower
more rapidly than hardware becomes faster
--Wirth's law
Cheryl
May 1, 2018, 6:16:59 PM5/1/18
to
authors, but that's no longer always the case. I could name a few female
authors whose descriptions of violent crimes were extremely graphic.
Since I don't like that kind of writing, I don't know if they still
write that sort of thing, or if many of the newer authors depict even
more violent.
--
Cheryl
Paul Wolff
May 1, 2018, 6:30:49 PM5/1/18
to
On Tue, 1 May 2018, Tony Cooper <tonyco...@gmail.com> posted:
Germaine Greer, author of /The Female Eunuch/ and "a pioneer of
second-wave feminism", claims that female viewers' fascination with the
victimisation of women is to blame for the prevalence of sexual violence
and rape on television, according to a /Times/ article today, reporting
an article she wrote for the /Radio Times/ (a British TV listings
journal).
She claims that the audience for television programmes centred on
violent crime with largely female victims is itself preponderantly
female. Drama series that have been mentioned in this context include
/The Fall/, /Luther/, /Top of the Lake/, /Paranoid/, and /The Bridge/.
"Who is watching and reading the proliferating imagery of female
victimhood? Women, that's who," she writes.
--
Paul
>On Tue, 1 May 2018 09:58:59 -0700 (PDT), Madrigal Gurneyhalt
(who seems to have removed on a whim several layers of attribution)
second-wave feminism", claims that female viewers' fascination with the
victimisation of women is to blame for the prevalence of sexual violence
and rape on television, according to a /Times/ article today, reporting
an article she wrote for the /Radio Times/ (a British TV listings
journal).
She claims that the audience for television programmes centred on
violent crime with largely female victims is itself preponderantly
female. Drama series that have been mentioned in this context include
/The Fall/, /Luther/, /Top of the Lake/, /Paranoid/, and /The Bridge/.
"Who is watching and reading the proliferating imagery of female
victimhood? Women, that's who," she writes.
--
Paul
Tony Cooper
May 1, 2018, 7:29:42 PM5/1/18
to
On Tue, 01 May 2018 17:28:49 -0400, Rich Ulrich
<rich....@comcast.net> wrote:
>On Tue, 01 May 2018 15:05:15 -0400, Tony Cooper
><tonyco...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>The world of fiction is far more advanced in gender equality than the
>>corporate world. Based only on what I observe at the library, more of
>>today's fiction is written by females than males. Female authors tend
>>to have female protagonists.
>>
>>I lean toward the mystery genre, and think of PD James, Kathy Reichs,
>>Janet Evanovich, Mary Higgins Clark, Ruth Rendell, and - of course -
>>Patricia Cornwell in this group. (Omission doesn't mean I haven't
>>read them; inclusion doesn't mean I do.)
>
>I read a half-dozen or more of KR and JE before I quit on them.
>I quit earlier on the other ones named. I look to female authors
>for mysteries because so many of the male authors when I started
>were distastefully macho and sexist.
My preference is British crime fiction for this very reason. The
<rich....@comcast.net> wrote:
>On Tue, 01 May 2018 15:05:15 -0400, Tony Cooper
><tonyco...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>The world of fiction is far more advanced in gender equality than the
>>corporate world. Based only on what I observe at the library, more of
>>today's fiction is written by females than males. Female authors tend
>>to have female protagonists.
>>
>>I lean toward the mystery genre, and think of PD James, Kathy Reichs,
>>Janet Evanovich, Mary Higgins Clark, Ruth Rendell, and - of course -
>>Patricia Cornwell in this group. (Omission doesn't mean I haven't
>>read them; inclusion doesn't mean I do.)
>
>I read a half-dozen or more of KR and JE before I quit on them.
>I quit earlier on the other ones named. I look to female authors
>for mysteries because so many of the male authors when I started
>were distastefully macho and sexist.
authors who have a DCI as the chief protagonist seem to write
"cleaner". I'm using "cleaner", in this case, to mean they move
through the storyline without the need to spice things up with a lot
of descriptive sex. I think a lot of authors add the sex scenes just
to pad out the plot. I don't object to graphic sexual descriptions,
but I get annoyed when they clearly don't figure in to the plot.
Peter Robinson (English/Canadian)for example, is a good read and
doesn't resort to tricks like that.
>
>When I branched out from reading sci-fi in the 1990s, blatant
>sexism seemed more prevalent in mysteries than it had been in sci-fi.
>In mysteries, there were exceptions like John D. MacDonald, Donald
>Westlake, and Lawrence Block ... but they did seem like exceptions.
>
>I still look forward to new books by Carol O'Connell,
Funny you should mention her. I just set aside her "Dead Famous" as
>When I branched out from reading sci-fi in the 1990s, blatant
>sexism seemed more prevalent in mysteries than it had been in sci-fi.
>In mysteries, there were exceptions like John D. MacDonald, Donald
>Westlake, and Lawrence Block ... but they did seem like exceptions.
>
>I still look forward to new books by Carol O'Connell,
not-worth-finishing. Her Kathleen Mallory character is too James
Bondish.
>JA Jance,
>Laura Lippman, Laurie R. King, Karin Slaughter, Margaret Maron, et al.
>Female leads, mostly.
--
Tony Cooper
May 1, 2018, 7:34:09 PM5/1/18
to
whining about something. Same with Ty Burrell (Phil in "Modern
Family").
Cheryl
May 1, 2018, 7:39:10 PM5/1/18
to
On 2018-05-01 8:59 PM, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Tue, 01 May 2018 17:28:49 -0400, Rich Ulrich
> <rich....@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 01 May 2018 15:05:15 -0400, Tony Cooper
>> <tonyco...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> The world of fiction is far more advanced in gender equality than the
>>> corporate world. Based only on what I observe at the library, more of
>>> today's fiction is written by females than males. Female authors tend
>>> to have female protagonists.
>>>
>>> I lean toward the mystery genre, and think of PD James, Kathy Reichs,
>>> Janet Evanovich, Mary Higgins Clark, Ruth Rendell, and - of course -
>>> Patricia Cornwell in this group. (Omission doesn't mean I haven't
>>> read them; inclusion doesn't mean I do.)
>>
>> I read a half-dozen or more of KR and JE before I quit on them.
>> I quit earlier on the other ones named. I look to female authors
>> for mysteries because so many of the male authors when I started
>> were distastefully macho and sexist.
>
> My preference is British crime fiction for this very reason. The
> authors who have a DCI as the chief protagonist seem to write
> "cleaner". I'm using "cleaner", in this case, to mean they move
> through the storyline without the need to spice things up with a lot
> of descriptive sex. I think a lot of authors add the sex scenes just
> to pad out the plot. I don't object to graphic sexual descriptions,
> but I get annoyed when they clearly don't figure in to the plot.
This isn't limited to crime fiction. Romance novels have gone from
> On Tue, 01 May 2018 17:28:49 -0400, Rich Ulrich
> <rich....@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 01 May 2018 15:05:15 -0400, Tony Cooper
>> <tonyco...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> The world of fiction is far more advanced in gender equality than the
>>> corporate world. Based only on what I observe at the library, more of
>>> today's fiction is written by females than males. Female authors tend
>>> to have female protagonists.
>>>
>>> I lean toward the mystery genre, and think of PD James, Kathy Reichs,
>>> Janet Evanovich, Mary Higgins Clark, Ruth Rendell, and - of course -
>>> Patricia Cornwell in this group. (Omission doesn't mean I haven't
>>> read them; inclusion doesn't mean I do.)
>>
>> I read a half-dozen or more of KR and JE before I quit on them.
>> I quit earlier on the other ones named. I look to female authors
>> for mysteries because so many of the male authors when I started
>> were distastefully macho and sexist.
>
> My preference is British crime fiction for this very reason. The
> authors who have a DCI as the chief protagonist seem to write
> "cleaner". I'm using "cleaner", in this case, to mean they move
> through the storyline without the need to spice things up with a lot
> of descriptive sex. I think a lot of authors add the sex scenes just
> to pad out the plot. I don't object to graphic sexual descriptions,
> but I get annoyed when they clearly don't figure in to the plot.
having a chaste kiss on the last page to lengthy and very explicit sex
scenes at apparently random places in the text - that is, they don't
appear to actually contribute to the development of the relationship
between the protagonists and the way they get over various obstacles.
I've noticed on some sites about such books, some readers ask for (and
get) suggestions of books that lack such scenes.
--
Cheryl
Tony Cooper
May 1, 2018, 8:21:58 PM5/1/18
to
young...10 or 12, maybe. I "borrowed" the book from my Aunt' room
when she was away at college.
There were no descriptions of any sex act in the book, but the
chapters ended with a sentence that lead to the clear conclusion that
a sex act would follow.
Tony Cooper
May 1, 2018, 8:32:31 PM5/1/18
to
"Luther" of marginal interest, but did like the other three. My wife
also watched the other three, but I don't think she saw them any
differently than I did.
I wonder if Linda Fairstein's books are read more by females than
males. Fairstein is a former NYC Prosecutor and head of the sex crimes
unit of the Manhattan District Attorney's office. Her novels are
intensely graphical. Only one of her books - "Final Jeopardy" - was
made into a movie. Rated at 5.6 out of 10 by IMDb.
Peter T. Daniels
May 1, 2018, 11:13:38 PM5/1/18
to
about Roseanne and Jackie's cantankerous mother, who is still Estelle
Parsons (the characters are respectively 65, 60, and 90 years old). Her mother, the grandmother, had been Shelley Winters. It was a treat whenever
she showed up! Parsons will be 91 in November and shows no signs of
physically slowing down, including when climbing to the window sill and
threatening to jump.
Peter T. Daniels
May 1, 2018, 11:16:31 PM5/1/18
to
Parson's one-night stand. He had like three lines and presumably the
director kept him from being Christopher Lloyd.
Quinn C
May 2, 2018, 1:59:52 AM5/2/18
to
* Peter T. Daniels:
> On Tuesday, May 1, 2018 at 5:57:34 PM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:
>> * Peter T. Daniels:
>>
>>> On Tuesday, May 1, 2018 at 5:38:39 PM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:
>>>
>>>> What do you think your average 10-year old girl looks like who
>>>> supposedly identifies more easily with Wonder Woman than with
>>>> Spiderman?
>>>
>>> Did Wonder Woman ever kiss anyone upside down? Now _that_ was an iconic moment!
>>
>> True, and who'd hang upside down more often than little girls?
>>
>>>> Especially US TV. Just compare the number of - to take your own example
>>>> - grossly overweight shoppers at a random Walmart, and grossly
>>>> overweight characters in a random TV show.
>>>
>>> Is that why they flock hard to *Rosanne*? (Though both are much svelter
>>> than they were 20 years ago when we last saw them.) (Kevin James is also
>>> smaller than he was when he was King of Queens. And Als Roker and Sharpton
>>> look positively undernourished.)
>>
>> As I said, the audience probably doesn't care as much as the producers
>> think. But Roseanne's (original) success stems from presenting a
>> mom/family who's more "normal" than usually seen on TV, i.e. covering
>> the aspect of identification rather than attractiveness.
>
> They left the political stuff behind after the first episode.
I wrote "original", referring to the 1980s debut; I haven't seen the
> On Tuesday, May 1, 2018 at 5:57:34 PM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:
>> * Peter T. Daniels:
>>
>>> On Tuesday, May 1, 2018 at 5:38:39 PM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:
>>>
>>>> What do you think your average 10-year old girl looks like who
>>>> supposedly identifies more easily with Wonder Woman than with
>>>> Spiderman?
>>>
>>> Did Wonder Woman ever kiss anyone upside down? Now _that_ was an iconic moment!
>>
>> True, and who'd hang upside down more often than little girls?
>>
>>>> Especially US TV. Just compare the number of - to take your own example
>>>> - grossly overweight shoppers at a random Walmart, and grossly
>>>> overweight characters in a random TV show.
>>>
>>> Is that why they flock hard to *Rosanne*? (Though both are much svelter
>>> than they were 20 years ago when we last saw them.) (Kevin James is also
>>> smaller than he was when he was King of Queens. And Als Roker and Sharpton
>>> look positively undernourished.)
>>
>> As I said, the audience probably doesn't care as much as the producers
>> think. But Roseanne's (original) success stems from presenting a
>> mom/family who's more "normal" than usually seen on TV, i.e. covering
>> the aspect of identification rather than attractiveness.
>
> They left the political stuff behind after the first episode.
recent episodes. The rest of your post also didn't relate in any way to
my subject matter, so an indication that you're entirely changing
subject would have been in order.
--
A computer will do what you tell it to do, but that may be much
different from what you had in mind. - Joseph Weizenbaum
CDB
May 2, 2018, 7:25:35 AM5/2/18
to
On 5/1/2018 3:15 PM, RH Draney wrote:
Of course; and Peter Rabbit and Freddy the Pig and Dr Doolittle and Mr
Popper and Lad (a dog) and so onwards. It didn't do to be exclusive in
one's tastes.
I didn't start the list intending to name only male subjects; but those
stories are all about animals, in one way or another, and I think that
may be the unifying thread.
Popper and Lad (a dog) and so onwards. It didn't do to be exclusive in
one's tastes.
I didn't start the list intending to name only male subjects; but those
stories are all about animals, in one way or another, and I think that
may be the unifying thread.
Peter T. Daniels
May 2, 2018, 8:39:31 AM5/2/18
to
audience generated by Trump's approval of Mrs. Barr's apparent politics.
If you were trying to change the topic to what was broadcast 30 years ago,
I'm not with you.
Quinn C
May 2, 2018, 9:27:01 AM5/2/18
to
Politics hadn't been a topic in this discussion strand. In the light of
your new comment, I see that you made an implicit claim that overweight
Walmart customers form the core of Roseanne's contemporary audience. I
didn't notice, and there's no elaborating on that without evidence that
it's even true.
People in general did flock to Roseanne 30 years ago, and I outlined
why this was relevant to my topic.
--
Press any key to continue or any other key to quit.
Jerry Friedman
May 2, 2018, 9:54:17 AM5/2/18
to
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2011/may/06/gender-imbalance-children-s-literature
(Or have we had that in the thread already?)
--
Jerry Friedman
Jerry Friedman
May 2, 2018, 9:58:34 AM5/2/18
to
On 5/1/18 10:58 AM, Madrigal Gurneyhalt wrote:
> On Tuesday, 1 May 2018 17:50:50 UTC+1, Quinn C wrote:
>> * Cheryl:
...
> On Tuesday, 1 May 2018 17:50:50 UTC+1, Quinn C wrote:
>> * Cheryl:
>>> There also used
>>> to be a generalization among some librarians that boys generally read
>>> only books featuring male protagonists, but girls will read books
>>> feather either male or female protagonists. I certainly followed that
>>> pattern as a girl. I suppose I still do, although I don't keep a record
>>> of my reading.
>>
>> Yes, but the usual explanations I hear for that are
>> - existing stories with female protagonists don't offer enough variety
>> for contemporary girls
>> - having male-associated interests (and traits) as a girl is more
>> socially acceptable than the opposite
>>
>> I was actually very surprised to learn, as an adult, that many people
>> find it difficult or don't like to identify with characters of a
>> different gender.
>
> Really? Pretty much all the books I read have female leads. Does this
> make me odd?
about pornography). I don't know of any studies, though.
--
Jerry Friedman
Tony Cooper
May 2, 2018, 10:35:33 AM5/2/18
to
On Wed, 2 May 2018 09:27:15 -0400, Quinn C
<lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:
>* Peter T. Daniels:
>
>> On Wednesday, May 2, 2018 at 1:59:52 AM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:
>>> * Peter T. Daniels:
>>>> On Tuesday, May 1, 2018 at 5:57:34 PM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:
>>>>> * Peter T. Daniels:
<lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:
>* Peter T. Daniels:
>
>> On Wednesday, May 2, 2018 at 1:59:52 AM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:
>>> * Peter T. Daniels:
>>>> On Tuesday, May 1, 2018 at 5:57:34 PM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:
>>>>> * Peter T. Daniels:
>>> I wrote "original", referring to the 1980s debut; I haven't seen the
>>> recent episodes. The rest of your post also didn't relate in any way to
>>> my subject matter, so an indication that you're entirely changing
>>> subject would have been in order.
>>
>> What we had been talking about was overweight shoppers at Walmart, and the
>> audience generated by Trump's approval of Mrs. Barr's apparent politics.
>> If you were trying to change the topic to what was broadcast 30 years ago,
>> I'm not with you.
>
>And I'm not with the person using the royal we above.
>
>Politics hadn't been a topic in this discussion strand. In the light of
>your new comment, I see that you made an implicit claim that overweight
>Walmart customers form the core of Roseanne's contemporary audience. I
>didn't notice, and there's no elaborating on that without evidence that
>it's even true.
There is the claim that Americans in general are overweight. There is
>>> recent episodes. The rest of your post also didn't relate in any way to
>>> my subject matter, so an indication that you're entirely changing
>>> subject would have been in order.
>>
>> What we had been talking about was overweight shoppers at Walmart, and the
>> audience generated by Trump's approval of Mrs. Barr's apparent politics.
>> If you were trying to change the topic to what was broadcast 30 years ago,
>> I'm not with you.
>
>And I'm not with the person using the royal we above.
>
>Politics hadn't been a topic in this discussion strand. In the light of
>your new comment, I see that you made an implicit claim that overweight
>Walmart customers form the core of Roseanne's contemporary audience. I
>didn't notice, and there's no elaborating on that without evidence that
>it's even true.
the claim that more Americans shop at Walmart than any other store
chain. There is the claim that "Roseanne" is one of the most-watched
shows of the 2018 schedule.
If the three of those claims have a factual basis, then that is
evidence that overweight Americans who shop at Walmart are the core of
the show's contemporary audience.
Which of the three claims would you like to refute to disprove this
claim?
Madrigal Gurneyhalt
May 2, 2018, 11:41:20 AM5/2/18
to
as like eating a sweet with the wrapper still on!) I'm not sure I'd
call it a preference. I don't eschew male led books. I enjoy the
Morgue Drawer (does it make a difference that the male
lead is a ghost?), Department Q, and the Rivers of London series
for example. It's just that the greater number of must reads has
fallen out to be either partnerships in which the female is of
equal importance (Lynley & Havers, Lloyd and Hill, Cormoran Strike)
or female led (Chronicles of St. Mary's, The Detective's Daughter,
Ruth Galloway, Maggie Sullivan, Gower Street Detective, Merrily
Watkins, Coroner Jenny Cooper, Leigh Koslow, Stephanie Plum,
Chequy Files,Genevieve Lenard, Lana Harvey, Calamity Jayne,
Temperance Brennan, Lil and Boris, the Spellmans, - to name but
the most recent additions to my Kindle).
Madrigal Gurneyhalt
May 2, 2018, 11:44:49 AM5/2/18
to
given that TV audiences are generally a very small and atypical proportion
of the US population.
Quinn C
May 2, 2018, 12:16:11 PM5/2/18
to
* Tony Cooper:
That's not how language works. Actually, it's more that that's not how
communication works.
For the sentence "overweight Walmart customers form the core of the
audience of 'Roseanne'" [1] to be a useful utterance, you need to show
that overweight Walmart customers watch are overrepresented in the
audience of "Roseanne" compared to other shows.
In your interpretation, the statement would be better rewritten as
"humans form the core of the audience of 'Roseanne'". Which sets it
apart from some shows on DOGTV, but I don't think that's actually the
competition "Roseanne" has in mind.
____
[1] Being so nice as to ignore "grossly", which was part of the initial
conversation, and would invalidate the first of your three claims.
--
The nice thing about standards is that you have so many to choose
from; furthermore, if you do not like any of them, you can just
wait for next year's model.
Andrew Tanenbaum, _Computer Networks_ (1981), p. 168.
communication works.
For the sentence "overweight Walmart customers form the core of the
audience of 'Roseanne'" [1] to be a useful utterance, you need to show
that overweight Walmart customers watch are overrepresented in the
audience of "Roseanne" compared to other shows.
In your interpretation, the statement would be better rewritten as
"humans form the core of the audience of 'Roseanne'". Which sets it
apart from some shows on DOGTV, but I don't think that's actually the
competition "Roseanne" has in mind.
____
[1] Being so nice as to ignore "grossly", which was part of the initial
conversation, and would invalidate the first of your three claims.
--
The nice thing about standards is that you have so many to choose
from; furthermore, if you do not like any of them, you can just
wait for next year's model.
Andrew Tanenbaum, _Computer Networks_ (1981), p. 168.
David Kleinecke
May 2, 2018, 12:26:21 PM5/2/18
to
dump. Our worlds are far apart.
Quinn C
May 2, 2018, 12:26:40 PM5/2/18
to
* Paul Wolff:
> Germaine Greer, author of /The Female Eunuch/ and "a pioneer of
> second-wave feminism", claims that female viewers' fascination with the
> victimisation of women is to blame for the prevalence of sexual violence
> and rape on television, according to a /Times/ article today, reporting
> an article she wrote for the /Radio Times/ (a British TV listings
> journal).
>
> She claims that the audience for television programmes centred on
> violent crime with largely female victims is itself preponderantly
> female. Drama series that have been mentioned in this context include
> /The Fall/, /Luther/, /Top of the Lake/, /Paranoid/, and /The Bridge/.
Must be British dramas - I haven't heard any of those titles.
> "Who is watching and reading the proliferating imagery of female
> victimhood? Women, that's who," she writes.
Does she elaborate on why? Assuming it's true, I would suggest it's a
way of dealing with the fear of being a victim. That makes some sense -
most women are on some level afraid of becoming a victim, but only few
men, I would hope, have to actively deal with a desire or fear of
becoming a perpetrator in violent crimes.
It's of course questionable whether "imagery of female
victimhood" is a useful way of dealing with the fear.
--
Ice hockey is a form of disorderly conduct
in which the score is kept.
-- Doug Larson
> Germaine Greer, author of /The Female Eunuch/ and "a pioneer of
> second-wave feminism", claims that female viewers' fascination with the
> victimisation of women is to blame for the prevalence of sexual violence
> and rape on television, according to a /Times/ article today, reporting
> an article she wrote for the /Radio Times/ (a British TV listings
> journal).
>
> She claims that the audience for television programmes centred on
> violent crime with largely female victims is itself preponderantly
> female. Drama series that have been mentioned in this context include
> /The Fall/, /Luther/, /Top of the Lake/, /Paranoid/, and /The Bridge/.
> "Who is watching and reading the proliferating imagery of female
> victimhood? Women, that's who," she writes.
way of dealing with the fear of being a victim. That makes some sense -
most women are on some level afraid of becoming a victim, but only few
men, I would hope, have to actively deal with a desire or fear of
becoming a perpetrator in violent crimes.
It's of course questionable whether "imagery of female
victimhood" is a useful way of dealing with the fear.
--
Ice hockey is a form of disorderly conduct
in which the score is kept.
-- Doug Larson
Tony Cooper
May 2, 2018, 12:28:37 PM5/2/18
to
right - the sample used was 800. From this page:
http://www.pewresearch.org/methodology/u-s-survey-research/sampling/
it says that using a sample size of 1,000 calls, they can determine
accurate enough information.
As far as TV audiences being "atypical", I would ask "What is
'typical'"?
The second episode of "Roseanne" was watched by 15.2 million people
(based on some sample). Last week's "Meet The Press" was watched by
4.3 million people (based on some sample). I didn't watch "Roseanne",
but I did watch "Meet The Press".
Which is the typical group of Americans? Those who watched one show
but not the other, those who watched both shows, or those who didn't
watch any shows?
As to my sloppy statistical analysis, which claim would *you* like to
refute? Overweight Americans? Popularity of Walmart? One of the
most-watched show?
On an a.u.e. theme, I would not say something is an "atypical
proportion". The proportion might be an atypical group, but the
proportion itself can't be atypical. It is a mathematical figure that
describes the relationship between groups of figures.
Quinn C
May 2, 2018, 12:32:47 PM5/2/18
to
* Madrigal Gurneyhalt:
I don't remotely get that reference.
Is reading crime fiction like stabbing someone with the knife still in
the sheath?
> I'm not sure I'd
> call it a preference. I don't eschew male led books. I enjoy the
> Morgue Drawer (does it make a difference that the male
> lead is a ghost?), Department Q, and the Rivers of London series
> for example. It's just that the greater number of must reads has
> fallen out to be either partnerships in which the female is of
> equal importance (Lynley & Havers, Lloyd and Hill, Cormoran Strike)
> or female led (Chronicles of St. Mary's, The Detective's Daughter,
> Ruth Galloway, Maggie Sullivan, Gower Street Detective, Merrily
> Watkins, Coroner Jenny Cooper, Leigh Koslow, Stephanie Plum,
> Chequy Files,Genevieve Lenard, Lana Harvey, Calamity Jayne,
> Temperance Brennan, Lil and Boris, the Spellmans, - to name but
> the most recent additions to my Kindle).
Gluttony!
Is reading crime fiction like stabbing someone with the knife still in
the sheath?
> I'm not sure I'd
> call it a preference. I don't eschew male led books. I enjoy the
> Morgue Drawer (does it make a difference that the male
> lead is a ghost?), Department Q, and the Rivers of London series
> for example. It's just that the greater number of must reads has
> fallen out to be either partnerships in which the female is of
> equal importance (Lynley & Havers, Lloyd and Hill, Cormoran Strike)
> or female led (Chronicles of St. Mary's, The Detective's Daughter,
> Ruth Galloway, Maggie Sullivan, Gower Street Detective, Merrily
> Watkins, Coroner Jenny Cooper, Leigh Koslow, Stephanie Plum,
> Chequy Files,Genevieve Lenard, Lana Harvey, Calamity Jayne,
> Temperance Brennan, Lil and Boris, the Spellmans, - to name but
> the most recent additions to my Kindle).
Madrigal Gurneyhalt
May 2, 2018, 12:42:18 PM5/2/18
to
On Wednesday, 2 May 2018 17:26:40 UTC+1, Quinn C wrote:
> * Paul Wolff:
>
> > Germaine Greer, author of /The Female Eunuch/ and "a pioneer of
> > second-wave feminism", claims that female viewers' fascination with the
> > victimisation of women is to blame for the prevalence of sexual violence
> > and rape on television, according to a /Times/ article today, reporting
> > an article she wrote for the /Radio Times/ (a British TV listings
> > journal).
> >
> > She claims that the audience for television programmes centred on
> > violent crime with largely female victims is itself preponderantly
> > female. Drama series that have been mentioned in this context include
> > /The Fall/, /Luther/, /Top of the Lake/, /Paranoid/, and /The Bridge/.
>
> Must be British dramas - I haven't heard any of those titles.
Hmm, let's see ...
> * Paul Wolff:
>
> > Germaine Greer, author of /The Female Eunuch/ and "a pioneer of
> > second-wave feminism", claims that female viewers' fascination with the
> > victimisation of women is to blame for the prevalence of sexual violence
> > and rape on television, according to a /Times/ article today, reporting
> > an article she wrote for the /Radio Times/ (a British TV listings
> > journal).
> >
> > She claims that the audience for television programmes centred on
> > violent crime with largely female victims is itself preponderantly
> > female. Drama series that have been mentioned in this context include
> > /The Fall/, /Luther/, /Top of the Lake/, /Paranoid/, and /The Bridge/.
>
> Must be British dramas - I haven't heard any of those titles.
The Fall; UK & Ireland, shown across the world but not USA (yet)
Luther; UK, shown Australia and BBC America
Top of the Lake; Aus/NZ/UK, shown Aus, UK, and USA (Sundance)
Paranoid; UK, on Netflix
The Bridge; the original Scandi-noir, shown UK and Aus subtitled
A US version was made by FX and ran for two series.
Cheryl
May 2, 2018, 12:47:53 PM5/2/18
to
attacked, not that they are afraid of becoming a victim, at least no
more than anyone who lives among other humans. And that the
level/existence of such a fear varies considerably even among women of
similar ages and backgrounds, if my observation is anything to go by. I
can't say I worry much, if at all, about becoming a victim as I go
around my daily life. I have a friend at the opposite extreme, who sees
danger everywhere.
I also haven't seen any of the series mentioned above, although of
course, I've seen shows/movies and read books in which there were female
victims. I've also read ones with male victims, and child victims of
both sexes. I haven't done a count to figure out the breakdown, and I
don't like extreme violence, fictional or otherwise, so that may come
into both my choice of entertainment and my reaction to it.
--
Cheryl
Quinn C
May 2, 2018, 12:53:10 PM5/2/18
to
* Tony Cooper:
> On Wed, 2 May 2018 08:44:46 -0700 (PDT), Madrigal Gurneyhalt
> <purpl...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Wednesday, 2 May 2018 15:35:33 UTC+1, Tony Cooper wrote:
>>> On Wed, 2 May 2018 09:27:15 -0400, Quinn C
>>> <lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:
>>>
>>> >[...] In the light of
--
The generation of random numbers is too important to be left to
chance.
Robert R. Coveyou
> On Wed, 2 May 2018 08:44:46 -0700 (PDT), Madrigal Gurneyhalt
> <purpl...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Wednesday, 2 May 2018 15:35:33 UTC+1, Tony Cooper wrote:
>>> On Wed, 2 May 2018 09:27:15 -0400, Quinn C
>>> <lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:
>>>
>>> >your new comment, I see that you made an implicit claim that overweight
>>> >Walmart customers form the core of Roseanne's contemporary audience. I
>>> >didn't notice, and there's no elaborating on that without evidence that
>>> >it's even true.
>>>
>>> There is the claim that Americans in general are overweight. There is
>>> the claim that more Americans shop at Walmart than any other store
>>> chain. There is the claim that "Roseanne" is one of the most-watched
>>> shows of the 2018 schedule.
>>>
>>> If the three of those claims have a factual basis, then that is
>>> evidence that overweight Americans who shop at Walmart are the core of
>>> the show's contemporary audience.
>>
>>I'm not sure it is. That's some pretty sloppy statistical analysis, especially
>>given that TV audiences are generally a very small and atypical proportion
>>of the US population.
>
> [...]
>>> >Walmart customers form the core of Roseanne's contemporary audience. I
>>> >didn't notice, and there's no elaborating on that without evidence that
>>> >it's even true.
>>>
>>> There is the claim that Americans in general are overweight. There is
>>> the claim that more Americans shop at Walmart than any other store
>>> chain. There is the claim that "Roseanne" is one of the most-watched
>>> shows of the 2018 schedule.
>>>
>>> If the three of those claims have a factual basis, then that is
>>> evidence that overweight Americans who shop at Walmart are the core of
>>> the show's contemporary audience.
>>
>>I'm not sure it is. That's some pretty sloppy statistical analysis, especially
>>given that TV audiences are generally a very small and atypical proportion
>>of the US population.
>
> On an a.u.e. theme, I would not say something is an "atypical
> proportion". The proportion might be an atypical group, but the
> proportion itself can't be atypical. It is a mathematical figure that
> describes the relationship between groups of figures.
I assumed it was a mistake for "portion".
> proportion". The proportion might be an atypical group, but the
> proportion itself can't be atypical. It is a mathematical figure that
> describes the relationship between groups of figures.
--
The generation of random numbers is too important to be left to
chance.
Robert R. Coveyou
CDB
May 2, 2018, 1:38:10 PM5/2/18
to
"gender"?) They all get the pronoun that applies to the beast I
have been associating with most recently*. When I still had The Bear
all dogs were male; now that I am walking Diana Montana (though rarely,
since she has moved away) they are all "she" to me.
In reference to the nurture-nature debate: I certainly talk to Montana
differently -- lots of talk about how gorgeous she is (well, beagles are
beautiful dogs) and maybe a little more cuddling.
_____________________________________________________
*I noted the ambiguity, but decided I meant both possibiilities.
Paul Wolff
May 2, 2018, 2:31:44 PM5/2/18
to
On Wed, 2 May 2018, Quinn C <lispa...@crommatograph.info> posted:
women are only trying to satisfy the desires of their audiences. "Female
victimisation sells. What should disturb us is that it sells to women,"
she says.
She suggests that large numbers of female viewers enjoy fantasising
about sexual assault. Apparently she cites a 2008 study by US academics
finding that one third of women had fantasised about being raped, and
half about some kind of forced sex. [Don't blame me for answering the
question. And the Times article doesn't give the actual citation.]
She goes on to say that that the man who struggles to resist the
heroine's fatal charms has been a staple of chick-lit ever since Jane
Eyre. And that the delusion that rape is the result of overwhelming
sexual desire is a female delusion. [That claimed delusion isn't a
belief I'd expect many, if any, men to hold.]
>Assuming it's true, I would suggest it's a
>way of dealing with the fear of being a victim. That makes some sense -
>most women are on some level afraid of becoming a victim, but only few
>men, I would hope, have to actively deal with a desire or fear of
>becoming a perpetrator in violent crimes.
That seems to square with Greer's remarks about the female delusion.
to comment further.
--
Paul
>* Paul Wolff:
>
>> Germaine Greer, author of /The Female Eunuch/ and "a pioneer of
>> second-wave feminism", claims that female viewers' fascination with the
>> victimisation of women is to blame for the prevalence of sexual violence
>> and rape on television, according to a /Times/ article today, reporting
>> an article she wrote for the /Radio Times/ (a British TV listings
>> journal).
>>
>> She claims that the audience for television programmes centred on
>> violent crime with largely female victims is itself preponderantly
>> female. Drama series that have been mentioned in this context include
>> /The Fall/, /Luther/, /Top of the Lake/, /Paranoid/, and /The Bridge/.
>
>Must be British dramas - I haven't heard any of those titles.
>
>> "Who is watching and reading the proliferating imagery of female
>> victimhood? Women, that's who," she writes.
>
>Does she elaborate on why?
Greer says that crime dramas with gratuitous depictions of attacks on
>
>> Germaine Greer, author of /The Female Eunuch/ and "a pioneer of
>> second-wave feminism", claims that female viewers' fascination with the
>> victimisation of women is to blame for the prevalence of sexual violence
>> and rape on television, according to a /Times/ article today, reporting
>> an article she wrote for the /Radio Times/ (a British TV listings
>> journal).
>>
>> She claims that the audience for television programmes centred on
>> violent crime with largely female victims is itself preponderantly
>> female. Drama series that have been mentioned in this context include
>> /The Fall/, /Luther/, /Top of the Lake/, /Paranoid/, and /The Bridge/.
>
>Must be British dramas - I haven't heard any of those titles.
>
>> "Who is watching and reading the proliferating imagery of female
>> victimhood? Women, that's who," she writes.
>
>Does she elaborate on why?
women are only trying to satisfy the desires of their audiences. "Female
victimisation sells. What should disturb us is that it sells to women,"
she says.
She suggests that large numbers of female viewers enjoy fantasising
about sexual assault. Apparently she cites a 2008 study by US academics
finding that one third of women had fantasised about being raped, and
half about some kind of forced sex. [Don't blame me for answering the
question. And the Times article doesn't give the actual citation.]
She goes on to say that that the man who struggles to resist the
heroine's fatal charms has been a staple of chick-lit ever since Jane
Eyre. And that the delusion that rape is the result of overwhelming
sexual desire is a female delusion. [That claimed delusion isn't a
belief I'd expect many, if any, men to hold.]
>Assuming it's true, I would suggest it's a
>way of dealing with the fear of being a victim. That makes some sense -
>most women are on some level afraid of becoming a victim, but only few
>men, I would hope, have to actively deal with a desire or fear of
>becoming a perpetrator in violent crimes.
>
>It's of course questionable whether "imagery of female
>victimhood" is a useful way of dealing with the fear.
>
These matters aren't within the range of my experience and I don't care
>It's of course questionable whether "imagery of female
>victimhood" is a useful way of dealing with the fear.
>
to comment further.
--
Paul
Tony Cooper
May 2, 2018, 3:26:46 PM5/2/18
to
On Wed, 2 May 2018 09:42:15 -0700 (PDT), Madrigal Gurneyhalt
<purpl...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>On Wednesday, 2 May 2018 17:26:40 UTC+1, Quinn C wrote:
>> * Paul Wolff:
>>
>> > Germaine Greer, author of /The Female Eunuch/ and "a pioneer of
>> > second-wave feminism", claims that female viewers' fascination with the
>> > victimisation of women is to blame for the prevalence of sexual violence
>> > and rape on television, according to a /Times/ article today, reporting
>> > an article she wrote for the /Radio Times/ (a British TV listings
>> > journal).
>> >
>> > She claims that the audience for television programmes centred on
>> > violent crime with largely female victims is itself preponderantly
>> > female. Drama series that have been mentioned in this context include
>> > /The Fall/, /Luther/, /Top of the Lake/, /Paranoid/, and /The Bridge/.
>>
>> Must be British dramas - I haven't heard any of those titles.
>
>Hmm, let's see ...
>
>The Fall; UK & Ireland, shown across the world but not USA (yet)
Yes it has. It was available on Netflix. We watched it.
<purpl...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>On Wednesday, 2 May 2018 17:26:40 UTC+1, Quinn C wrote:
>> * Paul Wolff:
>>
>> > Germaine Greer, author of /The Female Eunuch/ and "a pioneer of
>> > second-wave feminism", claims that female viewers' fascination with the
>> > victimisation of women is to blame for the prevalence of sexual violence
>> > and rape on television, according to a /Times/ article today, reporting
>> > an article she wrote for the /Radio Times/ (a British TV listings
>> > journal).
>> >
>> > She claims that the audience for television programmes centred on
>> > violent crime with largely female victims is itself preponderantly
>> > female. Drama series that have been mentioned in this context include
>> > /The Fall/, /Luther/, /Top of the Lake/, /Paranoid/, and /The Bridge/.
>>
>> Must be British dramas - I haven't heard any of those titles.
>
>Hmm, let's see ...
>
>The Fall; UK & Ireland, shown across the world but not USA (yet)
>Luther; UK, shown Australia and BBC America
>Top of the Lake; Aus/NZ/UK, shown Aus, UK, and USA (Sundance)
>Paranoid; UK, on Netflix
>The Bridge; the original Scandi-noir, shown UK and Aus subtitled
>A US version was made by FX and ran for two series.
Jimmy Wilkinson Knife
May 2, 2018, 3:30:45 PM5/2/18
to
On Sat, 28 Apr 2018 22:19:36 +0100, Madrigal Gurneyhalt <purpl...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> On Saturday, 28 April 2018 22:17:11 UTC+1, Tony Cooper wrote:
>> On Sat, 28 Apr 2018 12:37:51 -0400, Quinn C
>> <lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:
>>
>> >* Tony Cooper:
>> >
>> >> On Fri, 27 Apr 2018 19:27:59 -0400, Quinn C
>> >> <lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>Can someone explain this joke to me (from Good Girls, S01E09):
>> >>>
>> >>>| Because, you know,
>> >>>| last time this happened
>> >>>| you were all like,
>> >>>| "Yeah, just try to hurt us.
>> >>>| We eat at PF Chang's, bitch."
>> >>>
>> >>>What does eating at P. F. Chang's make you? Used to hurt? Scared of
>> >>>nothing? Rich?
>> >>>
>> >>>To my surprise, there is a P. F. Chang's in Montreal.
>> >>
>> >> Not enough context, but P.F. Chang's is a rather upscale restaurant
>> >> for Chinese food.
>> >>
>> >> Should I put "Chinese" in scare quotes?
>> >
>> >Yes. Or not use it at all. Their Canadian website doesn't make any
>> >claim to selling Chinese food, they call their stuff "Asian-inspired
>> >haute cuisine". Where I'd put "haute cuisine" in scare quotes for sure.
>> >
>> >> Looking at their online menu for the local P.F. Chang, I see that it's
>> >> a little more expensive than most neighborhood Chinese restaurants,
>> >> but not really at the high end.
>> >>
>> >> "Orange Peel Chicken" is $14.50, and the same dish is $13.95 at the
>> >> place in our area that we'd normally go to, but that's also in the
>> >> almost-upscale range. At the more ordinary Chinese restaurant in this
>> >> area it's $10.95.
>> >
>> >When I make that comparison locally, the difference is a little bigger
>> >here ($21 - $14.95 - $11.75), but $21 isn't really expensive, either.
>>
>> It may be just the US locations, but P.F. Chang's was owned by "P.F.
>> Chang's China Bistro, Inc.", but is now owned by Centerbridge
>> Partners.
>>
>> I would say that $21 is expensive for a selection that is available in
>> other restraints for half that price.
>> --
> Do you get the kinky handcuffs and leather straitjackets free then?
Flange.
https://www.xvideos.com/video6832704/extreme_-_whipping_until_she_passes_out._-_eroprofile
--
FOR SALE BY OWNER. Complete set of Encyclopedia Britannica , 45 volumes.
Excellent condition, £200 or best offer.
No longer needed, got married, wife knows everything.
> On Saturday, 28 April 2018 22:17:11 UTC+1, Tony Cooper wrote:
>> On Sat, 28 Apr 2018 12:37:51 -0400, Quinn C
>> <lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:
>>
>> >* Tony Cooper:
>> >
>> >> On Fri, 27 Apr 2018 19:27:59 -0400, Quinn C
>> >> <lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>Can someone explain this joke to me (from Good Girls, S01E09):
>> >>>
>> >>>| Because, you know,
>> >>>| last time this happened
>> >>>| you were all like,
>> >>>| "Yeah, just try to hurt us.
>> >>>| We eat at PF Chang's, bitch."
>> >>>
>> >>>What does eating at P. F. Chang's make you? Used to hurt? Scared of
>> >>>nothing? Rich?
>> >>>
>> >>>To my surprise, there is a P. F. Chang's in Montreal.
>> >>
>> >> Not enough context, but P.F. Chang's is a rather upscale restaurant
>> >> for Chinese food.
>> >>
>> >> Should I put "Chinese" in scare quotes?
>> >
>> >Yes. Or not use it at all. Their Canadian website doesn't make any
>> >claim to selling Chinese food, they call their stuff "Asian-inspired
>> >haute cuisine". Where I'd put "haute cuisine" in scare quotes for sure.
>> >
>> >> Looking at their online menu for the local P.F. Chang, I see that it's
>> >> a little more expensive than most neighborhood Chinese restaurants,
>> >> but not really at the high end.
>> >>
>> >> "Orange Peel Chicken" is $14.50, and the same dish is $13.95 at the
>> >> place in our area that we'd normally go to, but that's also in the
>> >> almost-upscale range. At the more ordinary Chinese restaurant in this
>> >> area it's $10.95.
>> >
>> >When I make that comparison locally, the difference is a little bigger
>> >here ($21 - $14.95 - $11.75), but $21 isn't really expensive, either.
>>
>> It may be just the US locations, but P.F. Chang's was owned by "P.F.
>> Chang's China Bistro, Inc.", but is now owned by Centerbridge
>> Partners.
>>
>> I would say that $21 is expensive for a selection that is available in
>> other restraints for half that price.
>> --
> Do you get the kinky handcuffs and leather straitjackets free then?
Flange.
https://www.xvideos.com/video6832704/extreme_-_whipping_until_she_passes_out._-_eroprofile
--
FOR SALE BY OWNER. Complete set of Encyclopedia Britannica , 45 volumes.
Excellent condition, £200 or best offer.
No longer needed, got married, wife knows everything.
Jimmy Wilkinson Knife
May 2, 2018, 3:31:55 PM5/2/18
to
On Sat, 28 Apr 2018 23:11:07 +0100, Tony Cooper <tonyco...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 28 Apr 2018 14:19:36 -0700 (PDT), Madrigal Gurneyhalt
> Please show more restraint in future in commenting about my
> spellcheck-caused errors.
Turn off autocorrect. I just get red lines and have to pick the correct word from a list.
--
If you jog in a jogging suit, lounge in lounging pyjamas, and smoke in a smoking jacket, why would anyone want to wear a windbreaker?
> On Sat, 28 Apr 2018 14:19:36 -0700 (PDT), Madrigal Gurneyhalt
> spellcheck-caused errors.
Turn off autocorrect. I just get red lines and have to pick the correct word from a list.
--
If you jog in a jogging suit, lounge in lounging pyjamas, and smoke in a smoking jacket, why would anyone want to wear a windbreaker?
Jimmy Wilkinson Knife
May 2, 2018, 3:33:08 PM5/2/18
to
> the entrance. Not the ones in Canada, though.
>
> The one in Montreal and one in neighboring Laval seem to be the only
> Canadian locations at this point.
>
>> I would say that $21 is expensive for a selection that is available in
>> other restraints for half that price.
>
> Nah, a factor of 2 can be easily justified by differences in quality of
>> I would say that $21 is expensive for a selection that is available in
>> other restraints for half that price.
>
> ingredients, reliably good preparation, location, decoration, number of
> staff etc.
And serving the food in less than half a fucking hour. Why do people put up with restaurants that take that long? When I'm hungry I want to eat now, not after 30 minutes of my stomach growling.
--
Why are there more white people killed in avalanches than blacks?
The blacks are easier to find in the snow.
Jimmy Wilkinson Knife
May 2, 2018, 3:35:21 PM5/2/18
to
On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 19:16:21 +0100, Tony Cooper <tonyco...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 13:43:56 -0400, Quinn C
> I would say that better ingredients and better preparation add to the
> value, but the location, decoration, and staff number just add to the
> cost.
>
> "Justified", though, is something the customer believes. The customer
> justifies paying more by accepting the ambience as a benefit.
>
> I'm not sure about the "better ingredients", though. Organic cat, I
> guess.
I googled that for a laugh, and you can actually buy organic cat food. Er.... organic meat? How is that even possible?
--
The Web brings people together because no matter what kind of a twisted sexual mutant you happen to be, you've got millions of pals out there. Type in "Find people that have sex with goats that are on fire" and the computer will say "Specify type of goat." -- Rich Jeni
> On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 13:43:56 -0400, Quinn C
> value, but the location, decoration, and staff number just add to the
> cost.
>
> "Justified", though, is something the customer believes. The customer
> justifies paying more by accepting the ambience as a benefit.
>
> I'm not sure about the "better ingredients", though. Organic cat, I
> guess.
I googled that for a laugh, and you can actually buy organic cat food. Er.... organic meat? How is that even possible?
--
The Web brings people together because no matter what kind of a twisted sexual mutant you happen to be, you've got millions of pals out there. Type in "Find people that have sex with goats that are on fire" and the computer will say "Specify type of goat." -- Rich Jeni
CDB
May 2, 2018, 4:25:40 PM5/2/18
to
On 5/2/2018 1:37 PM, CDB wrote:
[formative influences]
> Hah. Dogs and cats are generically ambiguous (is that the adjective
> for "gender"?) They all get the pronoun that applies to the beast I
> have been associating with most recently*. When I still had The
> Bear all dogs were male; now that I am walking Diana Montana (though
> rarely, since she has moved away) they are all "she" to me.
My question referred to "generic"; it just didn't seem that way.
[montium domina ut foret]
[formative influences]
> Hah. Dogs and cats are generically ambiguous (is that the adjective
> for "gender"?) They all get the pronoun that applies to the beast I
> have been associating with most recently*. When I still had The
> Bear all dogs were male; now that I am walking Diana Montana (though
> rarely, since she has moved away) they are all "she" to me.
[montium domina ut foret]
Madrigal Gurneyhalt
May 2, 2018, 5:23:52 PM5/2/18
to
'gender ambiguous', although perhaps 'gender indeterminate' might
be the better expression in this case.
Quinn C
May 2, 2018, 5:35:04 PM5/2/18
to
* CDB:
In this context, "generic" might indicate that you use the same
pronouns for wolves and coyotes (Canis), but not for foxes (Vulpes).
"Unspecific" seems to hint at a similar practice.
--
Please don't get catty about my interpretation
pronouns for wolves and coyotes (Canis), but not for foxes (Vulpes).
"Unspecific" seems to hint at a similar practice.
--
Please don't get catty about my interpretation
snide...@gmail.com
May 2, 2018, 8:03:42 PM5/2/18
to
On Monday, April 30, 2018 at 12:51:04 PM UTC-7, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> On Monday, April 30, 2018 at 1:14:22 PM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:
> > I only brought it up because there was very little in the "capsule" he
> > quoted that his disinclination could be based on.
>
> He has never seen a single episode of *The Sopranos*.
This describes why we don't comprehend your viewpoint:
<URL:http://www.gocomics.com/super-fun-pak-comix/2014/10/09>
/dps
> On Monday, April 30, 2018 at 1:14:22 PM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:
> > I only brought it up because there was very little in the "capsule" he
> > quoted that his disinclination could be based on.
>
> He has never seen a single episode of *The Sopranos*.
This describes why we don't comprehend your viewpoint:
<URL:http://www.gocomics.com/super-fun-pak-comix/2014/10/09>
/dps
bil...@shaw.ca
May 2, 2018, 8:27:11 PM5/2/18
to
version in which the victim is found at the mid-point
of the Chunnel.
I've seen all of the above except Paranoid, either on PBS
or on Netflix. I'll always give a new policier series a look,
and stay with most though not all of them. Most recently,
we watched a Norwegian-Swedish mini-series called Borderliner.
It was quite watchable but ended suddenly with many of our
questions unanswered.
bill
Tony Cooper
May 2, 2018, 8:42:55 PM5/2/18
to
rock musician - Steven Van Zandt/E Street Band - co-wrote and starred
in a series set in Norway.
A person, by the way, who acts as a thread-merger because he's often
seen in a do-rag.
Jerry Friedman
May 2, 2018, 10:50:49 PM5/2/18
to
> [montium domina ut foret]
It was.
--
Jerry Friedman
Quinn C
May 2, 2018, 10:56:35 PM5/2/18
to
* bil...@shaw.ca:
Checking ... Canadian Netflix has, at this point, The Fall, Paranoid
and The Bridge (UK version). I guess they didn't bubble up in my
recommendations because I wasn't watching or searching for any similar
shows on Netflix.
I don't currently have regular TV of any kind, so the major other way
to hear about a show is when it's mentioned in some other kind of media
I consume (online publication, podcast), which is largely US shows and
Web series.
--
Bug:
An elusive creature living in a program that makes it incorrect.
The activity of "debugging," or removing bugs from a program, ends
when people get tired of doing it, not when the bugs are removed.
and The Bridge (UK version). I guess they didn't bubble up in my
recommendations because I wasn't watching or searching for any similar
shows on Netflix.
I don't currently have regular TV of any kind, so the major other way
to hear about a show is when it's mentioned in some other kind of media
I consume (online publication, podcast), which is largely US shows and
Web series.
--
Bug:
An elusive creature living in a program that makes it incorrect.
The activity of "debugging," or removing bugs from a program, ends
when people get tired of doing it, not when the bugs are removed.
Jerry Friedman
May 2, 2018, 10:57:21 PM5/2/18
to
Okay, if it's not a preference, I think it's an odd way for things to
fall out. But many strange things happen.
--
Jerry Friedman
Quinn C
May 2, 2018, 11:03:41 PM5/2/18
to
* Quinn C:
> Checking ... Canadian Netflix has, at this point, The Fall, Paranoid
> and The Bridge (UK version)
Correction: The Bridge (Scandinavian version) - I guess there was no UK
version.
When I hear this title, I still think of the 1959 German film, which we
were shown in school.
--
Q: What do computer engineers use for birth control?
A: Their personalities.
> Checking ... Canadian Netflix has, at this point, The Fall, Paranoid
> and The Bridge (UK version)
version.
When I hear this title, I still think of the 1959 German film, which we
were shown in school.
--
Q: What do computer engineers use for birth control?
A: Their personalities.
Tony Cooper
May 2, 2018, 11:19:51 PM5/2/18
to
On Wed, 2 May 2018 12:16:09 -0400, Quinn C
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