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rain and wind: plural or singular?
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Yilaner
Sep 14, 2016, 5:30:27 AM9/14/16
to
Roads were blocked by fallen branches amid heavy winds and lashing rain in southern Taiwan.
Howling winds continue to pound the area.
Heavy rains caused flooding and landslides in many areas of the city.
with heavy rain and screaming wind.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Is it a matter of style or correctness? For me, I don't find any obvious rules about when to choose the singular form and when when to use the plural form. In most cases, is it a safe bet to just use rain in its singular form and wind in its plural form?
Howling winds continue to pound the area.
Heavy rains caused flooding and landslides in many areas of the city.
with heavy rain and screaming wind.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Is it a matter of style or correctness? For me, I don't find any obvious rules about when to choose the singular form and when when to use the plural form. In most cases, is it a safe bet to just use rain in its singular form and wind in its plural form?
Don Phillipson
Sep 14, 2016, 8:33:55 AM9/14/16
to
"Yilaner" <yil...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:c464815c-e925-4d63...@googlegroups.com...
> Is it a matter of style or correctness? For me, I don't find any obvious
> rules about when to choose the singular form and when when to use
> the plural form.
No rule of either grammar or style governs this
point. Both singular and plural terms are used
thus to describe the weather. Both are correct.
> In most cases, is it a safe bet to just use rain in its
> singular form and wind in its plural form?
Definitely not: there are no "safe bets."
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)
news:c464815c-e925-4d63...@googlegroups.com...
> Is it a matter of style or correctness? For me, I don't find any obvious
> rules about when to choose the singular form and when when to use
> the plural form.
point. Both singular and plural terms are used
thus to describe the weather. Both are correct.
> In most cases, is it a safe bet to just use rain in its
> singular form and wind in its plural form?
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)
Peter T. Daniels
Sep 14, 2016, 9:09:05 AM9/14/16
to
one way or the other, between a subject and a verb, other than "winds
continue," where -- how could there be a question?
Jerry Friedman
Sep 14, 2016, 10:21:39 AM9/14/16
to
On 9/14/16 6:25 AM, Don Phillipson wrote:
> "Yilaner" <yil...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:c464815c-e925-4d63...@googlegroups.com...
>
>> Is it a matter of style or correctness? For me, I don't find any obvious
>> rules about when to choose the singular form and when when to use
>> the plural form.
>
> No rule of either grammar or style governs this
> point. Both singular and plural terms are used
> thus to describe the weather. Both are correct.
I agree as far as that goes. I wonder whether "rain" suggests
> "Yilaner" <yil...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:c464815c-e925-4d63...@googlegroups.com...
>
>> Is it a matter of style or correctness? For me, I don't find any obvious
>> rules about when to choose the singular form and when when to use
>> the plural form.
>
> No rule of either grammar or style governs this
> point. Both singular and plural terms are used
> thus to describe the weather. Both are correct.
steadiness and "rains" suggests episodes of rain separated by dry or
drier periods. Likewise whether "wind" suggests steadiness and "winds"
suggests gustiness and shifting.
>> In most cases, is it a safe bet to just use rain in its
>> singular form and wind in its plural form?
>
> Definitely not: there are no "safe bets."
wrong one.
--
Jerry Friedman
"No Trump" bridge-themed political shirts: cafepress.com/jerrysdesigns
Bumper stickers ditto: cafepress/jerrysstickers
Harrison Hill
Sep 14, 2016, 11:54:31 AM9/14/16
to
said above) a hint that there may be lulls in the plural versions of
"rains" and "winds". The same applies to the resulting "heavy seas".
grammar...@gmail.com
Sep 14, 2016, 12:05:56 PM9/14/16
to
Mark Brader
Sep 14, 2016, 3:23:18 PM9/14/16
to
"Yilaner":
but the plural suggests different qualities of rain or wind at
different times, and storms do often have that characteristic, so
it also makes sense.
--
Mark Brader | "It is impractical for the standard to attempt to
Toronto | constrain the behavior of code that does not obey
m...@vex.net | the constraints of the standard." -- Doug Gwyn
My text in this article is in the public domain.
> Roads were blocked by fallen branches amid heavy winds and lashing rain
> in southern Taiwan.
>
> Howling winds continue to pound the area.
>
> Heavy rains caused flooding and landslides in many areas of the city.
>
> with heavy rain and screaming wind.
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Is it a matter of style or correctness?
Style, I'd say. The singular is always safe and that's what I use,
> in southern Taiwan.
>
> Howling winds continue to pound the area.
>
> Heavy rains caused flooding and landslides in many areas of the city.
>
> with heavy rain and screaming wind.
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Is it a matter of style or correctness?
but the plural suggests different qualities of rain or wind at
different times, and storms do often have that characteristic, so
it also makes sense.
--
Mark Brader | "It is impractical for the standard to attempt to
Toronto | constrain the behavior of code that does not obey
m...@vex.net | the constraints of the standard." -- Doug Gwyn
My text in this article is in the public domain.
Helen Lacedaemonian
Sep 14, 2016, 4:53:03 PM9/14/16
to
And the fogs of war,
Helen
Dr. HotSalt
Sep 14, 2016, 5:47:51 PM9/14/16
to
On Wednesday, September 14, 2016 at 2:30:27 AM UTC-7, Yilaner wrote:
> Roads were blocked by fallen branches amid heavy winds and lashing rain in
> southern Taiwan.
>
> Howling winds continue to pound the area.
To me plural winds signifies wind that changes direction and speed, not necessarily rapidly, or that are not consistent over the area.
> Roads were blocked by fallen branches amid heavy winds and lashing rain in
> southern Taiwan.
>
> Howling winds continue to pound the area.
> Heavy rains caused flooding and landslides in many areas of the city.
> with heavy rain and screaming wind.
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Is it a matter of style or correctness? For me, I don't find any obvious
> rules about when to choose the singular form and when when to use the plural
> form. In most cases, is it a safe bet to just use rain in its singular form
> and wind in its plural form?
What I want to know is, when we say "it's raining" or "it's windy" or "it's cold", what is "it"? It's not the sky (as PTD said the sky isn't an object) and even if it were, why should I care if it's cold twenty thousand feet above where I am? Worse, in desert areas there's virga which is rain that evaporates before reaching the ground- you can look up and *see* it coming, then disappearing.
Is it "the weather"? That never seemed quite right to me despite the usual Q&A "How's the weather?" "It's warm".
Dr. HotSalt
Eric Walker
Sep 14, 2016, 7:18:50 PM9/14/16
to
On Wed, 14 Sep 2016 08:21:30 -0600, Jerry Friedman wrote:
[...]
> I wonder whether "rain" suggests
> steadiness and "rains" suggests episodes of rain separated by dry or
> drier periods. Likewise whether "wind" suggests steadiness and "winds"
> suggests gustiness and shifting.
Yes, either temporal or geographical variations ("Taiwan" is a large
enough area that the rainstorm in one place may be different from that in
another, or, as you say, the manner and intensity may vary in one place
over time, or both, I guess). Likewise for windstorms.
[...]
> I wonder whether "rain" suggests
> steadiness and "rains" suggests episodes of rain separated by dry or
> drier periods. Likewise whether "wind" suggests steadiness and "winds"
> suggests gustiness and shifting.
enough area that the rainstorm in one place may be different from that in
another, or, as you say, the manner and intensity may vary in one place
over time, or both, I guess). Likewise for windstorms.
Peter T. Daniels
Sep 14, 2016, 10:58:51 PM9/14/16
to
On Wednesday, September 14, 2016 at 5:47:51 PM UTC-4, Dr. HotSalt wrote:
> On Wednesday, September 14, 2016 at 2:30:27 AM UTC-7, Yilaner wrote:
> > Roads were blocked by fallen branches amid heavy winds and lashing rain in
> > southern Taiwan.
> > Howling winds continue to pound the area.
>
> To me plural winds signifies wind that changes direction and speed, not necessarily rapidly, or that are not consistent over the area.
>
> > Heavy rains caused flooding and landslides in many areas of the city.
>
> To me plural rains signifies rain that comes and goes, as it were, or that isn't falling at the same rate over the area.
>
> > with heavy rain and screaming wind.
>
> That seems to signify what one might experience at any given time in a random location in the area- a general condition rather than a specific event, if you see what I mean.
>
> On Wednesday, September 14, 2016 at 2:30:27 AM UTC-7, Yilaner wrote:
> > Roads were blocked by fallen branches amid heavy winds and lashing rain in
> > southern Taiwan.
> > Howling winds continue to pound the area.
>
> To me plural winds signifies wind that changes direction and speed, not necessarily rapidly, or that are not consistent over the area.
>
> > Heavy rains caused flooding and landslides in many areas of the city.
>
> To me plural rains signifies rain that comes and goes, as it were, or that isn't falling at the same rate over the area.
>
> > with heavy rain and screaming wind.
>
> That seems to signify what one might experience at any given time in a random location in the area- a general condition rather than a specific event, if you see what I mean.
>
> > Is it a matter of style or correctness? For me, I don't find any obvious
> > rules about when to choose the singular form and when when to use the plural
> > form. In most cases, is it a safe bet to just use rain in its singular form
> > and wind in its plural form?
>
> Style more than correctness, but there's no clear distinction. What you get from weather reporters is what's most dramatic, not what most accurately describes the development of events over time. As others have said here are no general rules, but with experience you come to see the appropriateness of singulars and plurals in given contexts.
>
> What I want to know is, when we say "it's raining" or "it's windy" or "it's cold", what is "it"? It's not the sky (as PTD said the sky isn't an object) and even if it were, why should I care if it's cold twenty thousand feet above where I am? Worse, in desert areas there's virga which is rain that evaporates before reaching the ground- you can look up and *see* it coming, then disappearing.
>
> Is it "the weather"? That never seemed quite right to me despite the usual Q&A "How's the weather?" "It's warm".
Lewis Carroll had the Dodo address that one 150 years ago. ("When I find
> > rules about when to choose the singular form and when when to use the plural
> > form. In most cases, is it a safe bet to just use rain in its singular form
> > and wind in its plural form?
>
> Style more than correctness, but there's no clear distinction. What you get from weather reporters is what's most dramatic, not what most accurately describes the development of events over time. As others have said here are no general rules, but with experience you come to see the appropriateness of singulars and plurals in given contexts.
>
> What I want to know is, when we say "it's raining" or "it's windy" or "it's cold", what is "it"? It's not the sky (as PTD said the sky isn't an object) and even if it were, why should I care if it's cold twenty thousand feet above where I am? Worse, in desert areas there's virga which is rain that evaporates before reaching the ground- you can look up and *see* it coming, then disappearing.
>
> Is it "the weather"? That never seemed quite right to me despite the usual Q&A "How's the weather?" "It's warm".
something, it's generally a frog or a worm.")
Dr. HotSalt
Sep 15, 2016, 4:48:21 PM9/15/16
to
On Wednesday, September 14, 2016 at 7:58:51 PM UTC-7, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> On Wednesday, September 14, 2016 at 5:47:51 PM UTC-4, Dr. HotSalt wrote:
> > What I want to know is, when we say "it's raining" or "it's windy" or
> > "it's cold", what is "it"? It's not the sky...
> On Wednesday, September 14, 2016 at 5:47:51 PM UTC-4, Dr. HotSalt wrote:
> > What I want to know is, when we say "it's raining" or "it's windy" or
> >
> > Is it "the weather"? That never seemed quite right to me despite the
> > usual Q&A "How's the weather?" "It's warm".
>
> Lewis Carroll had the Dodo address that one 150 years ago. ("When I find
> something, it's generally a frog or a worm.")
That sounds like a variation on "if all you have is a hammer...".
> > Is it "the weather"? That never seemed quite right to me despite the
> > usual Q&A "How's the weather?" "It's warm".
>
> Lewis Carroll had the Dodo address that one 150 years ago. ("When I find
> something, it's generally a frog or a worm.")
Dr. HotSalt
Peter Moylan
Sep 18, 2016, 10:11:12 PM9/18/16
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