"dustcart" and another gripe about unnecessary localization in children's books

[Adam Funk]

The UK publishers of the Judy Moody books have meddled with the text
in the name of localization (Mom/Mum, &c.). Considering all the
American TV (over a wide range of quality) that kids are exposed to in
the UK, I find this totally unnecessary for comprehension, as well as
extremely annoying.

The term "garbage truck" in several places in _Judy Moody Declares
Independence_ has been replaced by "dustcart". I doubt that many
British children would actually have trouble understanding the
original.

Furthermore, do many people still say "dustcart" in BrE for the modern
version? (The term I usually hear in the UK is "bin lorry".)


--
Classical Greek lent itself to the promulgation of a rich culture,
indeed, to Western civilization. Computer languages bring us
doorbells that chime with thirty-two tunes, alt.sex.bestiality, and
Tetris clones. (Stoll 1995)

[Lanarcam]

On Mar 27, 6:10 pm, Adam Funk <a24...@ducksburg.com> wrote:
> The UK publishers of the Judy Moody books have meddled with the text
> in the name of localization (Mom/Mum, &c.).  Considering all the
> American TV (over a wide range of quality) that kids are exposed to in
> the UK, I find this totally unnecessary for comprehension, as well as
> extremely annoying.
>
> The term "garbage truck" in several places in _Judy Moody Declares
> Independence_ has been replaced by "dustcart".  I doubt that many
> British children would actually have trouble understanding the
> original.
>
> Furthermore, do many people still say "dustcart" in BrE for the modern
> version?  (The term I usually hear in the UK is "bin lorry".)
>

Ich bin lorry for you, Sir.

[Adam Funk]

no doughnuts for you then


--
By dint of plentiful try...catch constructs throughout our code base,
we are sometimes able to prevent our applications from aborting. We
think of the resultant state as "nailing the corpse in the upright
position". [Verity Stob]

[Peter Duncanson (BrE)]

On Tue, 27 Mar 2012 17:10:41 +0100, Adam Funk <a24...@ducksburg.com>
wrote:

>The UK publishers of the Judy Moody books have meddled with the text
>in the name of localization (Mom/Mum, &c.). Considering all the
>American TV (over a wide range of quality) that kids are exposed to in
>the UK, I find this totally unnecessary for comprehension, as well as
>extremely annoying.
>
>The term "garbage truck" in several places in _Judy Moody Declares
>Independence_ has been replaced by "dustcart". I doubt that many
>British children would actually have trouble understanding the
>original.
>

It's possible that many British children might understand "garbage
truck" better than than they would "dustcart".

>Furthermore, do many people still say "dustcart" in BrE for the modern
>version? (The term I usually hear in the UK is "bin lorry".)


--

Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

[Adrian Bailey]

"Adam Funk" <a24...@ducksburg.com> wrote in message
news:1d5949x...@news.ducksburg.com...

> The UK publishers of the Judy Moody books have meddled with the text
> in the name of localization (Mom/Mum, &c.). Considering all the
> American TV (over a wide range of quality) that kids are exposed to in
> the UK, I find this totally unnecessary for comprehension, as well as
> extremely annoying.
>
> The term "garbage truck" in several places in _Judy Moody Declares
> Independence_ has been replaced by "dustcart". I doubt that many
> British children would actually have trouble understanding the
> original.
>
> Furthermore, do many people still say "dustcart" in BrE for the modern
> version? (The term I usually hear in the UK is "bin lorry".)

When is the book set? "Dustcart" is indeed an antiquated expression.

Adrian

[Eric Walker]

On Tue, 27 Mar 2012 18:56:41 +0100, Adrian Bailey wrote:

[...]

> When is the book set? "Dustcart" is indeed an antiquated expression.

If the original was "garbage truck", it can't be ages back.


--
Cordially,
Eric Walker

[Adam Funk]

On 2012-03-27, Eric Walker wrote:

> On Tue, 27 Mar 2012 18:56:41 +0100, Adrian Bailey wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>> When is the book set? "Dustcart" is indeed an antiquated expression.
>
> If the original was "garbage truck", it can't be ages back.

The first book in the series was published in 2000 [1] and the setting
seems to me to be fairly contemporary. I wonder if someone has run a
search-and-replace on the text using an out-of-date AmE--BrE
"conversion table".



[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megan_McDonald#Judy_Moody_and_Stink


--
Mathematiker sind wie Franzosen: Was man ihnen auch sagt, übersetzen
sie in ihre eigene Sprache, so daß unverzüglich etwas völlig anderes
daraus wird. [Goethe]

[Adam Funk]

On 2012-03-27, Peter Duncanson (BrE) wrote:

> On Tue, 27 Mar 2012 17:10:41 +0100, Adam Funk <a24...@ducksburg.com>
> wrote:

>>The term "garbage truck" in several places in _Judy Moody Declares
>>Independence_ has been replaced by "dustcart". I doubt that many
>>British children would actually have trouble understanding the
>>original.
>>
> It's possible that many British children might understand "garbage
> truck" better than than they would "dustcart".

Possibly. For me the term "dustcart" evokes an old-fashioned kind,
certainly not compatible with big modern wheely bins.

But googling "dustcart" gives this as the first hit:

dustcart [ˈdʌstˌkɑːt] n
(Engineering / Automotive Engineering) a road vehicle for
collecting domestic refuse US and Canadian name garbage truck

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/dustcart

which might support my theory that someone is using an out-of-date
conversion table.

[Peter Duncanson (BrE)]

On Wed, 28 Mar 2012 12:40:42 +0100, Adam Funk <a24...@ducksburg.com>

wrote:

>On 2012-03-27, Peter Duncanson (BrE) wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 27 Mar 2012 17:10:41 +0100, Adam Funk <a24...@ducksburg.com>
>> wrote:
>
>>>The term "garbage truck" in several places in _Judy Moody Declares
>>>Independence_ has been replaced by "dustcart". I doubt that many
>>>British children would actually have trouble understanding the
>>>original.
>>>
>> It's possible that many British children might understand "garbage
>> truck" better than than they would "dustcart".
>
>Possibly. For me the term "dustcart" evokes an old-fashioned kind,
>certainly not compatible with big modern wheely bins.
>
>But googling "dustcart" gives this as the first hit:
>

> dustcart [?d?st?k??t] n

> (Engineering / Automotive Engineering) a road vehicle for
> collecting domestic refuse US and Canadian name garbage truck
>
> http://www.thefreedictionary.com/dustcart
>
>which might support my theory that someone is using an out-of-date
>conversion table.

There is also this recent job advert in England:
http://www.reed.co.uk/jobs/dustcart-operative/21288204

Dustcart Operative

Stafforce Personnel are recruiting Dustcart Operatives for a leading
Recycling and Waste Management Company based in Crawley, West
Sussex.

The ideal applicant would have experience of working within the
Recycling and Waste Industry but this is not essential.

The job involves travelling within the local area in a Dustcart to
residential homes and businesses and collecting household waste.
This is therefore a physical position and heavy lifting will be
involved.

The hours are 7am till 3.30pm with a 30 minute unpaid break,
although it is job and finish so will often finish earlier. The
hourly rate is £6.08 per hour.

Re "job and finish" -

http://www.encyclo.co.uk/define/Job%20And%20Finish

Job and finish is British slang for work without scheduled hours in
which the employee leaves when the job is finished.

That is not quite correct in the case above. There are scheduled hours,
and the workers will be paid according to the scheduled hours. However,
if the job is completed before the scheduled finishing time the workers
are not required to hang around until that time.

[Mike L]

And, though "bin-man" is taking over in ordinary speech, "dustman" is
still current in BrE.
[...]

--
Mike.

[Peter Duncanson (BrE)]

"bin-man/binman" is such a natural term that I'm very surprised that the
earliest examples in the OED are from the 1960s.

[Mike L]

On Wed, 28 Mar 2012 21:46:37 +0100, "Peter Duncanson (BrE)"

Perhaps that's because what the lads took away really was still mostly
dust at that time: in the form of coal ash, of course.

On the hyphen, I think I was using it to indicate stress. "BINm@n"
versus "bin-MAN". I don't think I've ever written the word before.

--
Mike.

[Peter Moylan]

Peter Duncanson (BrE) wrote:

> Re "job and finish" -
>
> http://www.encyclo.co.uk/define/Job%20And%20Finish
>
> Job and finish is British slang for work without scheduled hours in
> which the employee leaves when the job is finished.
>
> That is not quite correct in the case above. There are scheduled hours,
> and the workers will be paid according to the scheduled hours. However,
> if the job is completed before the scheduled finishing time the workers
> are not required to hang around until that time.

Our local council recently scrapped "job and finish" for the garbos.
Under the old system, the bins were usually emptied early in the
morning. Now the truck sometimes doesn't turn up until the next day.
Occasionally I see a collection of garbage trucks parked, for no
apparent reason, next to a local sports ground.

Progress.

--
Peter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org
For an e-mail address, see my web page.

[Peter Duncanson (BrE)]

Indeed. My surprise is that there are not earlier uses of "binman" in
view of the fact that household rubbish has been put in "bins"
throughout my lifetime.
The classic stye of dustbin that I grew up with:
http://www.grumpyoldarchive.co.uk/dustbin.jpg

>On the hyphen, I think I was using it to indicate stress. "BINm@n"
>versus "bin-MAN". I don't think I've ever written the word before.

--

[Adam Funk]

On 2012-03-28, Peter Moylan wrote:

> Peter Duncanson (BrE) wrote:
>
>> Re "job and finish" -
>>
>> http://www.encyclo.co.uk/define/Job%20And%20Finish
>>
>> Job and finish is British slang for work without scheduled hours in
>> which the employee leaves when the job is finished.
>>
>> That is not quite correct in the case above. There are scheduled hours,
>> and the workers will be paid according to the scheduled hours. However,
>> if the job is completed before the scheduled finishing time the workers
>> are not required to hang around until that time.
>
> Our local council recently scrapped "job and finish" for the garbos.
> Under the old system, the bins were usually emptied early in the
> morning. Now the truck sometimes doesn't turn up until the next day.
> Occasionally I see a collection of garbage trucks parked, for no
> apparent reason, next to a local sports ground.
>
> Progress.

Indeed! And beatings will continue until morale improves too.


--
Unix is a user-friendly operating system. It's just very choosy about
its friends.

[Adam Funk]

Wow, I'm surprised. Of course, the stereotype (clearly untrue in this
case) is that local governments make up newfangled, fancy job titles,
so you'd expect the ad to seek a "mobile waste management technician".

> And, though "bin-man" is taking over in ordinary speech, "dustman" is
> still current in BrE.

Because of the song!

And what kind of hat is a dustman supposed to wear, anyway? (The ones
I've seen wear woolly hats in the winter & none in the summer.)


--
When you look at a photograph of the earth you don't see any
borders. That realization is where our hope as a planet lies.
[Graham Nash]

[Adam Funk]

On 2012-03-28, Peter Moylan wrote:

> Peter Duncanson (BrE) wrote:
>
>> Re "job and finish" -
>>
>> http://www.encyclo.co.uk/define/Job%20And%20Finish
>>
>> Job and finish is British slang for work without scheduled hours in
>> which the employee leaves when the job is finished.
>>
>> That is not quite correct in the case above. There are scheduled hours,
>> and the workers will be paid according to the scheduled hours. However,
>> if the job is completed before the scheduled finishing time the workers
>> are not required to hang around until that time.
>
> Our local council recently scrapped "job and finish" for the garbos.

Just out of curiosity, is there a correlation between Australian slang
words ending in "-o(s)" & the ones that refer to people (as opposed to
"barbie" for "barbecue", for example)?


--
Civilization is a race between catastrophe and education.
[H G Wells]

[Nick Spalding]

Peter Duncanson (BrE) wrote, in
<1ld8n792gvad22rj0...@4ax.com>
on Thu, 29 Mar 2012 11:21:46 +0100:

It is only about fifteen years since we changed from those to the
wheelie bins, resulting in the disappearance of the family of foxes that
had lived in my back garden for two or three years.

>>On the hyphen, I think I was using it to indicate stress. "BINm@n"
>>versus "bin-MAN". I don't think I've ever written the word before.
--

Nick Spalding
BrE/IrE

[James Silverton]

It only just occurred to me but the US usage would not be "rubbish" but
"garbage". I've also seen "refuse".

--
Jim Silverton (Potomac, MD)

Extraneous "not" in Reply To.

[rwalker]

On Thu, 29 Mar 2012 11:21:46 +0100, "Peter Duncanson (BrE)"
<ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:

>Indeed. My surprise is that there are not earlier uses of "binman" in
>view of the fact that household rubbish has been put in "bins"
>throughout my lifetime.
>The classic stye of dustbin that I grew up with:
>http://www.grumpyoldarchive.co.uk/dustbin.jpg

And in American English it's a classic example of a garbage can (or
ash can in some dialects).

[R H Draney]

Adam Funk filted:

>
>On 2012-03-28, Mike L wrote:
>
>> And, though "bin-man" is taking over in ordinary speech, "dustman" is
>> still current in BrE.
>
>Because of the song!
>
>And what kind of hat is a dustman supposed to wear, anyway? (The ones
>I've seen wear woolly hats in the winter & none in the summer.)

Something that coordinates nicely with gorblimey trousers, I reckon....r


--
Me? Sarcastic?
Yeah, right.

[Robert Bannister]

But you have to admit that they didn't actually take the bins away; it
was the "dust" inside the bins that they removed - I am guessing that
this referred to ash from domestic fires.

> The classic stye of dustbin that I grew up with:
> http://www.grumpyoldarchive.co.uk/dustbin.jpg
>
>> On the hyphen, I think I was using it to indicate stress. "BINm@n"
>> versus "bin-MAN". I don't think I've ever written the word before.
>


--

Robert Bannister

[Robert Bannister]

On 29/03/12 8:53 PM, Adam Funk wrote:
> On 2012-03-28, Mike L wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 28 Mar 2012 14:19:07 +0100, "Peter Duncanson (BrE)"
>> <ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
>
>>> There is also this recent job advert in England:
>>> http://www.reed.co.uk/jobs/dustcart-operative/21288204
>>>
>>> Dustcart Operative
>>>
>>> Stafforce Personnel are recruiting Dustcart Operatives for a leading
>>> Recycling and Waste Management Company based in Crawley, West
>>> Sussex.
>
> Wow, I'm surprised. Of course, the stereotype (clearly untrue in this
> case) is that local governments make up newfangled, fancy job titles,
> so you'd expect the ad to seek a "mobile waste management technician".
>
>
>> And, though "bin-man" is taking over in ordinary speech, "dustman" is
>> still current in BrE.
>
> Because of the song!
>
> And what kind of hat is a dustman supposed to wear, anyway? (The ones
> I've seen wear woolly hats in the winter& none in the summer.)
>
>

They had a leather thing a bit like American firemen wear or used to
wear in shape.

--
Robert Bannister

[Nick Spalding]

Robert Bannister wrote, in <9tkhk...@mid.individual.net>
on Fri, 30 Mar 2012 09:46:46 +0800:

And the old-style bins didn't need those warnings about "No Hot Ashes".

>> The classic stye of dustbin that I grew up with:
>> http://www.grumpyoldarchive.co.uk/dustbin.jpg
>>
>>> On the hyphen, I think I was using it to indicate stress. "BINm@n"
>>> versus "bin-MAN". I don't think I've ever written the word before.
>>
--

Nick Spalding
BrE/IrE

[Adam Funk]

The google image search turned up a lot of garbag^W dust, but I guess
these are examples the right thing?

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_MxEwAqH6was/TQlGqPUXNJI/AAAAAAAAAtk/-9XvXf5QHFA/s1600/Pyne%252C+WH-Dustman-Pynes+British+Costumes-sm.jpg

http://digicoll.library.wisc.edu/History/data/images/TuerOldLdn/reference/063r.gif


--
The internet is quite simply a glorious place. Where else can you find
bootlegged music and films, questionable women, deep seated xenophobia
and amusing cats all together in the same place? [Tom Belshaw]

[Adam Funk]

On 2012-03-30, Robert Bannister wrote:

I suppose in the good old days™, there wasn't so much packaging to get
rid of, and people probably threw a lot of that in the fire anyway.


--
But the government always tries to coax well-known writers into the
Establishment; it makes them feel educated. [Robert Graves]

[Adam Funk]

And now on to the next question...


--
Nam Sibbyllam quidem Cumis ego ipse oculis meis vidi in ampulla
pendere, et cum illi pueri dicerent: beable beable beable; respondebat
illa: doidy doidy doidy. [plorkwort]

[Mike L]

On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 14:48:20 +0100, Adam Funk <a24...@ducksburg.com>
wrote:

>On 2012-03-29, R H Draney wrote:
>
>> Adam Funk filted:
>>>
>>>On 2012-03-28, Mike L wrote:
>>>
>>>> And, though "bin-man" is taking over in ordinary speech, "dustman" is
>>>> still current in BrE.
>>>
>>>Because of the song!
>>>
>>>And what kind of hat is a dustman supposed to wear, anyway? (The ones
>>>I've seen wear woolly hats in the winter & none in the summer.)
>>
>> Something that coordinates nicely with gorblimey trousers, I reckon....r
>
>And now on to the next question...

...Nah, jump up on the cart!

--
Mike.

[Robert Bannister]

I seem to remember our bin catching fire a couple of times when the
still hot ashes ignited something else in the bin, but the bins were
metal back then.

--
Robert Bannister

[Robert Bannister]

On 30/03/12 9:47 PM, Adam Funk wrote:
> On 2012-03-30, Robert Bannister wrote:
>
>> On 29/03/12 8:53 PM, Adam Funk wrote:
>
>>> And what kind of hat is a dustman supposed to wear, anyway? (The ones
>>> I've seen wear woolly hats in the winter& none in the summer.)
>>>
>>>
>> They had a leather thing a bit like American firemen wear or used to
>> wear in shape.
>
> The google image search turned up a lot of garbag^W dust, but I guess
> these are examples the right thing?
>
> http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_MxEwAqH6was/TQlGqPUXNJI/AAAAAAAAAtk/-9XvXf5QHFA/s1600/Pyne%252C+WH-Dustman-Pynes+British+Costumes-sm.jpg
>
> http://digicoll.library.wisc.edu/History/data/images/TuerOldLdn/reference/063r.gif
>
>

Yes, especially the second one. Not all dustmen wore them, but I presume
they were issued with them.

--
Robert Bannister

[Peter Moylan]

Adam Funk wrote:
> On 2012-03-28, Mike L wrote:
>
>> And, though "bin-man" is taking over in ordinary speech, "dustman" is
>> still current in BrE.
>
> Because of the song!
>
> And what kind of hat is a dustman supposed to wear, anyway? (The ones
> I've seen wear woolly hats in the winter & none in the summer.)

Initially, because of mishearing the words, I thought he wore a
Dutchman's hat.

[Peter Moylan]

I've been sitting on this question because I can't think of a good
answer. I don't think there is a correlation, though.

There are a couple of names that attract an -o ending, but no general
trend. (Besides, anyone who signs his name "Jno." can hardly complain if
people call him "Johnno".)

Now I'm trying to think of some Australian slang words ending in -o.

Piano: already in use in England before it reached Australia.
Dingo: a formally accepted word, not slang.
Drongo: I thought that was slang, but it's just a re-use
of a non-slang word.
Yobbo: now, that has to be slang. (Looks it up.) Hmm,
apparently not exclusively Australian.
Milko: now we're getting closer. That one is genuinely in
the same class as garbo.
Bottle-o: surprise! I thought that one was English slang,
but apparently not.
Lingo: not exclusively Australian, but I knew that.
Blotto: another surprise. I thought that one was pure
Australian, but it's not.

You can probably tell that I'm thrashing about here. Very slight support
for your hypothesis, but perhaps others can do better.

[jgharston]

Mike L wrote:
> >>>And what kind of hat is a dustman supposed to wear, anyway?

> >> Something that coordinates nicely with gorblimey trousers, I reckon....r
> >And now on to the next question...
> ...Nah, jump up on the cart!

Dum dilli dilli dilli dum dilli ii

JGH

[R H Draney]

Peter Moylan filted:

>
>There are a couple of names that attract an -o ending, but no general
>trend. (Besides, anyone who signs his name "Jno." can hardly complain if
>people call him "Johnno".)
>
>Now I'm trying to think of some Australian slang words ending in -o.
>
>Piano: already in use in England before it reached Australia.
>Dingo: a formally accepted word, not slang.
>Drongo: I thought that was slang, but it's just a re-use
> of a non-slang word.
>Yobbo: now, that has to be slang. (Looks it up.) Hmm,
> apparently not exclusively Australian.

Nope...I think I even heard Alex use it in "A Clockwork Orange"....

>Milko: now we're getting closer. That one is genuinely in
> the same class as garbo.
>Bottle-o: surprise! I thought that one was English slang,
> but apparently not.
>Lingo: not exclusively Australian, but I knew that.
>Blotto: another surprise. I thought that one was pure
> Australian, but it's not.

A term that struck me as Australian when first I heard it (perhaps on this very
newsgroup) was "Quango"...besides the "-o" ending, it's got the first part that
sounds like the airline that cute little koala was always griping about....r

[Mike L]

I thought I was going to come up with lots of "-o" slang, but I too am
surprised to find I can't.

"arvo" - afternoon
"Tommo" - the Thompson bit of "Lililan Thompson", among others
"reffo" - refugee
"compo" is Brit as well as Aus.
"rello" - relation.

I've run dry. But I don't think the "-o" form is biased either to
people or to things.

--
Mike.

[Mike L]

On Sat, 31 Mar 2012 23:09:38 +1100, Peter Moylan
<inv...@peter.pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

Just remembered "Jappo". My father told me it used to be applied to
shoddy goods, of real or metaphorical Japanese origin: one needing to
retire too often from a jungle juice session could be said to have "a
Jappo bladder".

--
Mike.

[tony cooper]

Is the search limited to Oz slang? If not, then add aggro.


--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

[Robert Bannister]

I don't think I've come across that last one - always "rellie" for me.
"smoko" - morning tea break; now often called "coffee break" and even
more often non-existent in our modern, "reformed" industrial world;
"dekko" - (for "look"); I think that's British.

>
> I've run dry. But I don't think the "-o" form is biased either to
> people or to things.
>


--

Robert Bannister

[Peter Moylan]

The conclusion I'm coming to, after searching for examples, is that the
"-o" ending is not particularly Australian. It's just that we have a
handful of examples that strike others as foreign.

[Peter Moylan]

Mike L wrote:

> I thought I was going to come up with lots of "-o" slang, but I too am
> surprised to find I can't.
>
> "arvo" - afternoon
> "Tommo" - the Thompson bit of "Lililan Thompson", among others
> "reffo" - refugee

"Reffo" is a bit dated by now. The modern term is "suspected asylum
seeker". That "suspected" is an important element; it's the main
justification we have for putting them into prison. The real reason
might be xenophobia, but nobody wants to say that out loud. Or perhaps
it's just the fear that an influx of poor people will hurt our
prosperous way of life.

It sometimes strikes me that the most xenophobic elements in our society
are descendants of an earlier wave of refugees.

> "compo" is Brit as well as Aus.
> "rello" - relation.
>
> I've run dry. But I don't think the "-o" form is biased either to
> people or to things.

--

[Peter Duncanson (BrE)]

Ah, but...

"Dekko" doesn't fit the pattern. It is a Hindi word that has been
adopted into English by British soldiers.
OED:

dekko, n.
Forms: Also decko, †dekho.
Etymology: < Hindi dekho, imperative of dekhna- to look: compare
deck n.2
slang (orig. Army slang).

A look. Also as v., to look, look at.

1894 Daily News 8 Sept. 6/3, I had a ‘dekho’ round every ‘house’
in the place, but couldn't see you.
....

>>
>> I've run dry. But I don't think the "-o" form is biased either to
>> people or to things.
>>

--

Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

[jgharston]

Peter Moylan wrote:
> "Reffo" is a bit dated by now. The modern term is "suspected asylum
> seeker". That "suspected" is an important element; it's the main
> justification we have for putting them into prison.

Seeking asylum is illegal? And suspicion is proof of guilt? Strange
legal system you have there.

JGH

[Steve Hayes]

On Sat, 31 Mar 2012 17:44:01 +1100, Peter Moylan
<inv...@peter.pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

>Adam Funk wrote:
>> On 2012-03-28, Mike L wrote:
>>
>>> And, though "bin-man" is taking over in ordinary speech, "dustman" is
>>> still current in BrE.
>>
>> Because of the song!
>>
>> And what kind of hat is a dustman supposed to wear, anyway? (The ones
>> I've seen wear woolly hats in the winter & none in the summer.)
>
>Initially, because of mishearing the words, I thought he wore a
>Dutchman's hat.

My old man's a Dutchman
He wears a Dutchman's hat
He held a referendum
And he got shot by Pratt.

That's how we used to sing it, anyway.



--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

[Steve Hayes]

On Sat, 31 Mar 2012 23:09:38 +1100, Peter Moylan
<inv...@peter.pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

>Now I'm trying to think of some Australian slang words ending in -o.
>
>Piano: already in use in England before it reached Australia.
>Dingo: a formally accepted word, not slang.
>Drongo: I thought that was slang, but it's just a re-use
> of a non-slang word.
>Yobbo: now, that has to be slang. (Looks it up.) Hmm,
> apparently not exclusively Australian.
>Milko: now we're getting closer. That one is genuinely in
> the same class as garbo.
>Bottle-o: surprise! I thought that one was English slang,
> but apparently not.
>Lingo: not exclusively Australian, but I knew that.
>Blotto: another surprise. I thought that one was pure
> Australian, but it's not.
>
>You can probably tell that I'm thrashing about here. Very slight support
>for your hypothesis, but perhaps others can do better.

We used to have "ou" jokes

What's a trio?
An ou what sits in a tree.

What's a radio?
A member of the Special Branch.

[R H Draney]

BrE filted:

Interesting...I wonder how it found its way into the Boontling word "deke", "to
look at"....r

[Adam Funk]

I think you're right, & I think the supposition posed in my question
was bunk.


--
The generation of random numbers is too important to be left to
chance. [Robert R. Coveyou]

[Mike L]

On Sun, 01 Apr 2012 10:01:37 +1000, Peter Moylan
<inv...@peter.pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

>Mike L wrote:
>
>> I thought I was going to come up with lots of "-o" slang, but I too am
>> surprised to find I can't.
>>
>> "arvo" - afternoon
>> "Tommo" - the Thompson bit of "Lililan Thompson", among others
>> "reffo" - refugee
>
>"Reffo" is a bit dated by now. The modern term is "suspected asylum
>seeker". That "suspected" is an important element; it's the main
>justification we have for putting them into prison. The real reason
>might be xenophobia, but nobody wants to say that out loud. Or perhaps
>it's just the fear that an influx of poor people will hurt our
>prosperous way of life.
>
>It sometimes strikes me that the most xenophobic elements in our society
>are descendants of an earlier wave of refugees.
>

"Reffo" has never been in my active vocab: I learnt it from the
parents, and I don't think they ever used it in earnest.
[...]
--
Mike.

[Steve Hayes]

On Sun, 1 Apr 2012 07:27:49 -0700 (PDT), jgharston <j...@arcade.demon.co.uk>
wrote:

Yup, Oz has joined the Saudi Arabia and the USA in the club of those who
reject the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which says that everyone has
the right to seek asylum.

[Peter Moylan]

I don't deny it.

Our political system has both a right wing and a left wing. The right
wing wants to tell us that suspected asylum seekers are probably
terrorists, who are seeking entry into our country in order to destroy
it. In that, they are supported by the radio "shock jocks".

The left wing of politics recognises that such arguments have gained a
lot of popular support. Thus, it too wants to be recognised as being
tough on refugees.

The (few) intellectuals in our country describe this as a "race to the
bottom".

[Adam Funk]

On 2012-04-03, Peter Moylan wrote:

> jgharston wrote:
>> Peter Moylan wrote:
>>> "Reffo" is a bit dated by now. The modern term is "suspected asylum
>>> seeker". That "suspected" is an important element; it's the main
>>> justification we have for putting them into prison.
>>
>> Seeking asylum is illegal? And suspicion is proof of guilt? Strange
>> legal system you have there.
>
> I don't deny it.
>
> Our political system has both a right wing and a left wing. The right
> wing wants to tell us that suspected asylum seekers are probably
> terrorists, who are seeking entry into our country in order to destroy
> it. In that, they are supported by the radio "shock jocks".
>
> The left wing of politics recognises that such arguments have gained a
> lot of popular support. Thus, it too wants to be recognised as being
> tough on refugees.
>
> The (few) intellectuals in our country describe this as a "race to the
> bottom".

That is *not* a uniquely Australian problem.

[Mike L]

On Tue, 03 Apr 2012 20:29:32 +0100, Adam Funk <a24...@ducksburg.com>
wrote:

>On 2012-04-03, Peter Moylan wrote:
>
>> jgharston wrote:
>>> Peter Moylan wrote:
>>>> "Reffo" is a bit dated by now. The modern term is "suspected asylum
>>>> seeker". That "suspected" is an important element; it's the main
>>>> justification we have for putting them into prison.
>>>
>>> Seeking asylum is illegal? And suspicion is proof of guilt? Strange
>>> legal system you have there.
>>
>> I don't deny it.
>>
>> Our political system has both a right wing and a left wing. The right
>> wing wants to tell us that suspected asylum seekers are probably
>> terrorists, who are seeking entry into our country in order to destroy
>> it. In that, they are supported by the radio "shock jocks".
>>
>> The left wing of politics recognises that such arguments have gained a
>> lot of popular support. Thus, it too wants to be recognised as being
>> tough on refugees.
>>
>> The (few) intellectuals in our country describe this as a "race to the
>> bottom".
>
>That is *not* a uniquely Australian problem.

As I've quoted before:
Q: "How do you confuse the editor of the Daily Mail?"
A: "Tell him that illegal immigrants are the natural prey of bogus
asylum seekers."

For the purposes of due legal process, "bogus" means "foreign".

--
Mike.