Joke: preposition at end
Joseph C Fineman
the yard, "Sir, can you tell me where the Widener Library is at?" The
student replies, "At Harvard, we do not end a sentence with a
preposition." To which she answers, "Very well; tell me where the
Widener is at, *asshole*."
--
Joe Fineman j...@world.std.com
239 Clinton Road (617) 731-9190
Brookline, MA 02146
Rohan Oberoi
|> A young lady from Georgia, just arrived at Harvard, asked a student in
|> the yard, "Sir, can you tell me where the Widener Library is at?" The
|> student replies, "At Harvard, we do not end a sentence with a
|> preposition." To which she answers, "Very well; tell me where the
|> Widener is at, *asshole*."
Preposition humour has been much more subtle and less
distasteful. For the benefit of the few who have not
seen it, here's what Churchill said when one of his
sentences was attacked by a pen-wielding civil servant
in a memo:
"This is the sort of pedantic nonsense", fumed Churchill,
"up with which I will not put !"
Rohan.
Wayne W. McDougall
ro...@nmc.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Rohan Oberoi) writes:
> Preposition humour has been much more subtle and less
> distasteful. For the benefit of the few who have not
> seen it, here's what Churchill said when one of his
> sentences was attacked by a pen-wielding civil servant
> in a memo:
>
> "This is the sort of pedantic nonsense", fumed Churchill,
> "up with which I will not put !"
>
> Rohan.
Strike a key when ready . . .
I am fairly sure that Churchill was in fact criticising some underling's
dangling preposition, and did so in an amusing way, rather than responding
to someone criticising him.
I await with joy being corrected with a reference.
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Jim Balter
I've heard this attributed to Benjamin Franklin.
Wilson Follett writes, in his entry on pedantry: "... it may induce caution to
consider a few examples of misplaced care that will almost always strike the
hearer or reader as finical--here the casual speaker will say /finicky/--and
that he may be so much annoyed by as to call pedantic. The list may as well
begin with the pedantry that consists in the observance of imaginary rules.
Among these are the injunctions against the SPLIT INFINITIVE and against ending
a sentence with a PREPOSITION; the effort to put ONLY as close to its object as
possible (/Tender noodles made from only the yolk of fresh eggs/--where's the
flour?); the avoidance of /just/ (/I just don't like it/) in the belief that it
is a misuse of /just/ as in /justice/, whereas it is from /juxta/, and means
just what it says; the effort to place epithets next to the word they apply to
(avoiding /a good cup of coffee/ in favor of /a cup of good coffee/); or the
studied rejection of CASE and SINCE (causal) without reason."
-- J Q B
Wes Groleau X7574
Rohan Oberoi
|> ro...@nmc.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Rohan Oberoi) writes:
|>
|> > Preposition humour has been much more subtle and less
|> > distasteful. For the benefit of the few who have not
|> > seen it, here's what Churchill said when one of his
|> > sentences was attacked by a pen-wielding civil servant
|> > in a memo:
|> >
|> > "This is the sort of pedantic nonsense", fumed Churchill,
|> > "up with which I will not put !"
|> >
|> > Rohan.
|>
|> Strike a key when ready . . .
|>
|> I am fairly sure that Churchill was in fact criticising some underling's
|> dangling preposition, and did so in an amusing way, rather than responding
|> to someone criticising him.
Hmm. The version I posted was the one I read in a biography
of Churchill. I can't vouch for the biographer, and I can't
dig up the biography. Since someone else has posted saying
that the US has attributed the lines to Ben Franklin, I'm
perfectly willing to believe that there are multiple versions
floating around.
By the way, I've been told that we only have the preposition
rule in English because in Latin it's impossible to end a
sentence with a preposition. Anyone know if this is
plausible ?
Rohan.
Mongo
>By the way, I've been told that we only have the preposition
>rule in English because in Latin it's impossible to end a
>sentence with a preposition. Anyone know if this is
>plausible ?
>Rohan.
the way I heard (I think it was on the radio - maybe Paul Harvey) was that a
professor of English at some English college had decided that preposition must
mean that the word is supposed to come before something. After some discusions
with his colleagues it was finally made an accepted rule of grammer. Any way
hat's what I heard.
--
===============================================================================
Mongo | We'll take the Niggers and the Chinks, but
n923...@henson.cc.wwu.edu | we don't want the Irish.
| Mel Brooks
John H Anderson
>Most grammarians admit it's all right to end a sentence with. A preposition.
Most grammarians agree that it's alright to use a preposition to end a
sentence with.
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Todd Andrew Simpson
the way I heard (I think it was on the radio - maybe Paul Harvey) was
that a professor of English at some English college had decided that
preposition must mean that the word is supposed to come before
something. After some discusions with his colleagues it was finally
made an accepted rule of grammer. Any way that's what I heard.
That's not exactly what I heard, but it's similar. Here's what Bill
Bryson says in "The Mother Tongue: English & How it Got That Way"
(ellipses are mine):
"Consider the curiously persistent notion that sentences should not
end with a proposition. The source of this stricture, and several
other equally dubious ones, was one Robert Lowth, an eighteenth-
century clergyman and amateur grammarian whose _A Short Introduction
to English Grammar_, published in 1762, enjoyed a long and distres-
singly influential life both in his native England and abroad. . . .
Perhaps the most remarkable and curiously enduring of Lowth's many
beliefs was the conviction that sentences ought not to end with a
preposition. But even he was not didactic about it. . . . He sug-
gested only that he thought it better and more graceful, not crucial,
to place the preposition before its relative 'in solemn and graceful'
writing. Within a hundred years this had been converted from a piece
of questionable advice into an immutable rule. In a remarkable out-
burst of literal-mindedness, nineteenth-century academics took it as
read that the very name _pre-position_ meant it must come before
something -- anything."
Silly, huh? But maybe I shouldn't be posting to and reading Usenet, I
have plenty of work on with which I have to get.
Todo
Todd Andrew Simpson
In article <C789y...@crdnns.crd.ge.com> gro...@e7sa.crd.ge.com (Wes Groleau X7574) writes:
>Most grammarians admit it's all right to end a sentence with. A preposition.
Most grammarians agree that it's alright to use a preposition to end a
sentence with.
I notice in a lot (alot?) of advertisements that the people who write
them seem to think that whenever a sentence contains a comma. You can
replace it with a period and start a new sentence. This is supposed
to make the ad more effective. Because short sentences are easier to
read. More powerful. And deliver more bang for the buck. But
sometimes it doesn't work out right. In the newspaper ads I see for
Forbes magazine. It says "No guts. No story." Forbes wants you to
think that if it didn't have the guts. Then it wouldn't print the
story. But instead one thinks that it has no guts. And no story.
Todo
Pierre Jelenc
>ro...@nmc.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Rohan Oberoi) writes:
>
>
>
>>By the way, I've been told that we only have the preposition
>>rule in English because in Latin it's impossible to end a
>>sentence with a preposition. Anyone know if this is
>>plausible ?
>
>>Rohan.
>
>the way I heard (I think it was on the radio - maybe Paul Harvey) was that a
>professor of English at some English college had decided that preposition must
>mean that the word is supposed to come before something. After some discusions
>with his colleagues it was finally made an accepted rule of grammer. Any way
>hat's what I heard.
But a "preposition" in English is not a preposition: it is a particle that
may be used as a preposition (before a noun) or as a modifier (usually
after a verb). Thus while one cannot end a sentence with a word that is
grammatically a preposition, it is perfectly OK to end it with the same
word in its clothes of verbal particle.
And it is OK to start a sentence with a coordinating conjunction.
Pierre
--
Pierre Jelenc
rc...@panix.com
Dennis Baron
>Most grammarians agree that it's alright to use a preposition to end a
>sentence with.
>
But is it all right to say alright?
Dennis
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\'\ fax: 217-333-4321
Dennis Baron \'\ __________
Department of English / '| ()_________)
Univ. of Illinois \ '/ \ ~~~~~~~~ \
608 S. Wright St. \ \ ~~~~~~ \
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Young Sul
>
>
>>Most grammarians agree that it's alright to use a preposition to end a
>>sentence with.
>>
>But is it all right to say alright?
>
>Dennis
athena% webster alright
al.right \o.l-'ri-t\ av(or aj) [ME, fr. al + right] : ALL Right
I guess its ok!
-y
The One and Only
>>sentence with.
>>
>But is it all right to say alright?
Noone sez alright anymore.
Jim
--
She blinded me with SCIENCE!
BECKMANN PETR
>>sentence with.
started reading, then stopped and said:
"What did you choose a dull book like this to be read to out of for?"
Petr Beckmann
Gerard Fryer
The version I've heard is much better. You can figure out the
introduction yourself. The punchline is
"What did you bring that book I didn't want to be read out of to up
for?"
--
Gerard Fryer
Richard Losey
>But a "preposition" in English is not a preposition: it is a particle that
>may be used as a preposition (before a noun) or as a modifier (usually
>after a verb). Thus while one cannot end a sentence with a word that is
>grammatically a preposition, it is perfectly OK to end it with the same
>word in its clothes of verbal particle.
End a sentence with a preposition?
That is a convention up with which I shall not put!
(Attributed to Winston Churchill)
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard W Losey (rlo...@sdf.lonestar.org)
"My strength is as the strength of ten because my code is pure."
Peter Moylan
> "What did you bring that book I didn't want to be read out of to up
> for?"
It was an Australian book, so insert "about down under" at the
appropriate point.
Mark, have you considered a FTJ supplement to the FAQ file?
--
Peter Moylan ee...@cc.newcastle.edu.au OR pe...@ee.newcastle.edu.au
Daniel J Tilque
>
>>Most grammarians agree that it's alright to use a preposition to end a
>>sentence with.
>>
>But is it all right to say alright?
I wonder about that alot. Especially when I'm in the altogether in the
shower. After awhile, I get so confused that I never get already to go
out.
--
Dan Tilque -- da...@cs.pdx.edu
Domenico De Vitto {spider}
no avail(sp?) :
Why, O why is I (as in 'me') a capital ?????
(and the answer isn't because it's the biggest town in the country......)
Dom
William R. Ward
) Talking about grammer, I've asked degree english students in the UK this to
) no avail(sp?) :
)
) Why, O why is I (as in 'me') a capital ?????
You also gave an example of the other English word that is always
all-capitals, "O"... Alternatively spelled "Oh" (but IMHO in error, as
the latter has a different meaning in my idiolect anyway).
This is a very good question. Probably for pragmatic reasons: A
lowercase "i" might have a tendency to disappear, it being so small.
Why "O" is always capitalized is an even more difficult question;
probably for the same reason that "He" or "Him" is when talking about
God. Most commonly this is used in the form "Tell us, O Lord, why the
sky is blue?" as from the Bible. I suppose you could say "Tell me, O
garbage man, do you like your job?" just as easily.
--Bill.
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Santa Cruz CA 95060 USA
Andy Symes
Why, O why is 'O' a capital???
Andy.
Raphael Mankin
>Talking about grammer, I've asked degree english students in the UK this to
>no avail(sp?) :
>
>Why, O why is I (as in 'me') a capital ?????
>
And why, Oh why, is ``grammar'' so frequently mis-spelt?
--
Raphael Mankin Nil taurus excretum
Mark LaPolla
: > "What did you bring that book I didn't want to be read out of to up
: > for?"
: It was an Australian book, so insert "about down under" at the
: appropriate point.
Very interesting (but inappropriate)! Let's start a splinter group
called rec.linguistics.preposition.anal or to make it shorter
rec.prepositionH !
As a descriptive linguist (retired), I think I may be offended by this
thread. (I'm not sure but I'll think about it! ;-)
M.
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