Cervical - pronunciation
John Dean
presented with the conflicting schools of pronunciation. Even news readers &
reporters on the same programme do it differently. Choices are SER - vical
and ser - VYE - cal. (I won't countenance the horrendous development of
ser - VYE - A - cal)
Since Cervical comes from cervix, I can't see why SERvical shouldn't be
universal. But dictionaries seem to sanction both.
Any preferences out there?
--
John Dean -- Oxford
I am anti-spammed -- defrag me to reply
Mike Lyle
Dean wrote:
>
>Cervical cancer being, sadly, much in the UK news again, we are daily
>presented with the conflicting schools of pronunciation. Even news readers &
>reporters on the same programme do it differently. Choices are SER - vical
>and ser - VYE - cal. (I won't countenance the horrendous development of
>ser - VYE - A - cal)
>Since Cervical comes from cervix, I can't see why SERvical shouldn't be
>universal. But dictionaries seem to sanction both.
>Any preferences out there?
>--
Why some med-eye-cal people take leave of their senses and say "umbil-eye-cal",
"cerv-eye-cal" etc when they wouldn't dream of uttering "polit-eye-cal" or
"crit-eye-cal" has always bothered me, and aue has never explained it.
Michael.
Richard Fontana
> Cervical cancer being, sadly, much in the UK news again, we are daily
> presented with the conflicting schools of pronunciation. Even news readers &
> reporters on the same programme do it differently. Choices are SER - vical
> and ser - VYE - cal. (I won't countenance the horrendous development of
> ser - VYE - A - cal)
> Since Cervical comes from cervix, I can't see why SERvical shouldn't be
> universal. But dictionaries seem to sanction both.
> Any preferences out there?
Without even consulting a dictionary I can say confidently that only
"SER-vical" /'sRv@k@l/ would be acceptable in the U.S. of A.
Stephen Toogood
<nos...@newsranger.com> writes
Whose armour was covered in nicks.
He said "In the lists'
Where I pick up these twists;
I'm the target of so many pricks".
Does this help? Perhaps not.
--
Stephen Toogood
Robert M. Lewis
Are you certain? I have heard ser-VYE-cal screening often enough. I
don't think that it is a Canadianism either.
As for why, perhaps to add weight to the word as SER-vi-cal slips past
the tongue more quickly than ser-VI-al does.
Robert M. Lewis
Curiouser and curiouser!
Richard Crowley
> Why some med-eye-cal people take leave of their
> senses and say "umbil-eye-cal", "cerv-eye-cal" etc
> when they wouldn't dream of uttering "polit-eye-cal"
> or> "crit-eye-cal" has always bothered me, and aue
> has never explained it.
The medical biz seems to have their own pronunciation of several other words
for which civilians have chosen a preferred pronunciation.
The one that leaps to mind is "sonnemeter" for "centimeter". As in "the
patient is dialated 10 sonnemeters" Anyone know how this came about?
RC in OR
Rainer Thonnes
"John Dean" <john...@fragmsn.com> writes:
>Cervical cancer being, sadly, much in the UK news again, we are daily
>presented with the conflicting schools of pronunciation. Even news readers &
>reporters on the same programme do it differently. Choices are SER - vical
>and ser - VYE - cal. (I won't countenance the horrendous development of
>ser - VYE - A - cal)
>Since Cervical comes from cervix, I can't see why SERvical shouldn't be
>universal. But dictionaries seem to sanction both.
>Any preferences out there?
"Cervical" has two medical meanings. The Latin word "cervix" means
neck, and hence anything related to the ordinary neck (the bit between
your head and your body), such as bones, muscles, or whatever, is also
called "cervical". In this usage the conventional pronunciation is
"SER-vi-cal".
But where it refers to the cervix, being the "neck" of the uterus, the
conventional pronunciation is "ser-VYE-cal". Medics use this dual
pronunciation as a kind of double-check to make sure they agree as to
which part of your body they're taking about, even though context
should not normally leave any room for doubt.
Mike Lyle
wrote:
[...]
>
>"Cervical" has two medical meanings. The Latin word "cervix" means
>neck, and hence anything related to the ordinary neck (the bit between
>your head and your body), such as bones, muscles, or whatever, is also
>called "cervical". In this usage the conventional pronunciation is
>"SER-vi-cal".
>
>But where it refers to the cervix, being the "neck" of the uterus, the
>conventional pronunciation is "ser-VYE-cal". Medics use this dual
>pronunciation as a kind of double-check to make sure they agree as to
>which part of your body they're taking about, even though context
>should not normally leave any room for doubt.
And "umbilical"?
Mike.
Rainer Thonnes
No excuses for that one. Anyone saying "umbi-LYE-cal" is just
plain wrong. It could well be a kind of back-formation, by way
of a joke, from "ser-VYE-cal", and then somehow it caught on.
Have you heard "umbi-LYE-cal" in the UK, or just in the colonies?
Ross Howard
wrote:
>Cervical cancer being, sadly, much in the UK news again, we are daily
>presented with the conflicting schools of pronunciation. Even news readers &
>reporters on the same programme do it differently. Choices are SER - vical
>and ser - VYE - cal. (I won't countenance the horrendous development of
>ser - VYE - A - cal)
>Since Cervical comes from cervix, I can't see why SERvical shouldn't be
>universal. But dictionaries seem to sanction both.
>Any preferences out there?
I'm with you. "suh-VYE-kl" seems to be based on no precedent other
than "survival", which is not an adjective anyway, and even if it
were, it's not derived from "survix".
Curiously enough, the same problem exists a couple of inches further
up with "YOU-tu-reen" versus "YOU-tuh-rine", a couple of inches lower
down with "vuh-JYE-nal" versus "VA-jih-nal"; and then, nipping outside
and heading north another inch or so, we have "CLIH-tuh-riss" versus
"clih-TORE-iss".
But why stop there? Let's play Gynopron! -- I'll open with a
"you-RETH-ruh", and a pair of "uh-VAIR-iz". Anyone fancy seeing me
with a G-spot?
Ross Howard
Ross Howard
It's apparently common in gye-nuh-cuh-luh-JYE-cal and puh-DYE-uh-tric
circles.
Ross Howard
Iannis Kyris
>
> But where it refers to the cervix, being the "neck" of the uterus, the
> conventional pronunciation is "ser-VYE-cal". Medics use this dual
> pronunciation as a kind of double-check to make sure they agree as to
> which part of your body they're taking about, even though context
> should not normally leave any room for doubt.
I know several British (English, to be more precise) physicians who opt for
'ser-VYE-cal' spine, 'ser-VYE-cal' lymphadenopathy, and so forth.
--
Iannis Kyris
Athens, Greece
-----------------------------------------------------------------
'There are no answers, only cross-references'
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Please remove z and 57 from email address
Beverly Erlebacher
> "Richard Crowley" <rcro...@xprt.net> posted:
>
> The medical biz seems to have their own pronunciation of several
> other words for which civilians have chosen a preferred pronunciation.
> The one that leaps to mind is "sonnemeter" for "centimeter". As in "the
> patient is dialated 10 sonnemeters" Anyone know how this came about?
It's derived from the French pronunciation of 'centimetre', which
sounds something like 'sontimetter'. Possibly the Brits use this
pronunciation, while the Americans say 'sentimeeter'.
Earle D Jones
(Dr. Jai Maharaj) wrote:
> In article <9cuq28$1si$1...@usenet.otenet.gr>,
> "Iannis Kyris" <izk...@altavista.com> posted:
> > Rainer Thonnes wrote:
> > >
> > > But where it refers to the cervix, being the "neck" of the uterus,
> > > the
> > > conventional pronunciation is "ser-VYE-cal". Medics use this dual
> > > pronunciation as a kind of double-check to make sure they agree as to
> > > which part of your body they're taking about, even though context
> > > should not normally leave any room for doubt.
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> > I know several British (English, to be more precise) physicians who opt
> > for
> > 'ser-VYE-cal' spine, 'ser-VYE-cal' lymphadenopathy, and so forth.
> > Iannis Kyris
> > Athens, Greece
*
As the gynecologist says, "Madam, I am at your cervix."
earle
*
Jacqui
> "Richard Crowley posted:
> >
> > The medical biz seems to have their own pronunciation of several
> > other words for which civilians have chosen a preferred pronunciation.
> > The one that leaps to mind is "sonnemeter" for "centimeter". As in "the
> > patient is dialated 10 sonnemeters" Anyone know how this came about?
>
> It's derived from the French pronunciation of 'centimetre', which
> sounds something like 'sontimetter'. Possibly the Brits use this
> pronunciation, while the Americans say 'sentimeeter'.
Do you have any evidence that we (British) do that? Cos we don't.
Sente-meeter. I've never heard sont from anyone but a French person.
Jac
Steve Harris
news:3AF3BC1A...@baa.hotmail.com...
And they would rather swallow the r at the end, would they not? The
American
MD pronunciation (limited almost entirely to obstetricians) would seem to be
a silly affectation.
Speaking of the British/Indian pronunciation, I once had an Indian prof of
anatomy. It took me a week to understand half of what he was saying.
Uhm-bi-LIKE-us. What the hell is that? Obviously somewhere near the navel
from the drawing....
Roger Whitehead
> It's derived from the French pronunciation of 'centimetre', which
> sounds something like 'sontimetter'. Possibly the Brits use this
> pronunciation, while the Americans say 'sentimeeter'
I've never met any Briton who pronounces it that way. We say it like
the Americs.
Regards,
Roger
Roger Whitehead
wrote:
> Many physicians here are from Bharat
> (some say that 35% are), so it's a real Disneyland of accents here.
All phoney, you mean?
Regards,
Roger
Philip Eden
I've never heard that from a French person, only from Brits and Merkins
and Tipodeans trying (with limited success) to speak French.
Philip E.
Alan Jones
"Roger Whitehead" <r...@office-futures.com> wrote in message
news:VA.0000208...@office-futures.com...
Well, not quite. We tend to pronounce the 't' as /t/ and (dialects excepted)
ignore the 'r'. But I agree that, in spite of the 're' spelling (optional in
UK), the BrE pronunciation isn't in any respect Frenchified. And we do use
the metric system in everyday situations, not just in obstetrics and
gynaecology, though "millimetre/-ter" is a more usual unit than
"centimetre/-ter" for DIY as such.
Alan Jones
Richard Fontana
> "Roger Whitehead" <r...@office-futures.com> wrote in message
> news:VA.0000208...@office-futures.com...
> > In article <2001May4.1...@jarvis.cs.toronto.edu>, Beverly
> > Erlebacher wrote:
> > > It's derived from the French pronunciation of 'centimetre', which
> > > sounds something like 'sontimetter'. Possibly the Brits use this
> > > pronunciation, while the Americans say 'sentimeeter'
> >
> > I've never met any Briton who pronounces it that way. We say it like
> > the Americs.
>
> Well, not quite. We tend to pronounce the 't' as /t/ and (dialects excepted)
Just a technicality: Americans pronounce the /t/ too, but they might
realize it differently from the way British speakers do.
Many Americans would pronounce the 't' in "centimeter" as something at
least close to a [t]; it's not pronounced "sennimeter" by such Americans
if that's what you're thinking of. This is true in at least the more
authentic and socially-valued varieties of the Postwar Prestige Standard
group of accents, as well as in some eastern coastal non-prestigious
accents. Many other Americans, perhaps especially those of a Western
orientation, or occidentation, would probably say actual
"sennimeter"; while perhaps many other Americans would use that flappy
sound after the /n/. Most Americans would of course use the flappy sound
for the second /t/ in "centimeter".
CBI
"Steve Harris" <SBHar...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:9d0i12$vtj$1...@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net...
>
> And they would rather swallow the r at the end [of the word centimeter],
would they not? The
> American
would seem to be
> a silly affectation.
>
I could never proove it, but I always had the distinct impression that they
were just being pompous. Judging from the reaction you would get from some
of them if you pronouned the word in the common manner it seemed to me they
were doing it intentionally to draw some distinction between themselves and
others. It was like you couldn't be accepted as one of them if you did not
adopt this silly practice. It made it easy to tell which students were
considering a career in OB/Gyn.
> Speaking of the British/Indian pronunciation, I once had an Indian prof of
> anatomy. It took me a week to understand half of what he was saying.
> Uhm-bi-LIKE-us. What the hell is that? Obviously somewhere near the navel
> from the drawing....
>
I had a professor who did the same thing, only he was British. We used to
poke fun of him by similarly altering other words like tra-KEE-a. It was
never clear if he got the joke.
--
CBI, MD
Robert Lieblich
>
> "Steve Harris" <SBHar...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:9d0i12$vtj$1...@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net...
> >
> > And they would rather swallow the r at the end [of the word centimeter],
> would they not? The
> > American
> > MD pronunciation [sontimeter] (limited almost entirely to obstetricians)
> would seem to be
> > a silly affectation.
> >
>
> I could never proove it, but I always had the distinct impression that they
> were just being pompous. Judging from the reaction you would get from some
> of them if you pronouned the word in the common manner it seemed to me they
> were doing it intentionally to draw some distinction between themselves and
> others. It was like you couldn't be accepted as one of them if you did not
> adopt this silly practice. It made it easy to tell which students were
> considering a career in OB/Gyn.
Right you are, only it appears that the students are abandoning it.
I asked my niece, who is a fourth-year resident in obstetrics, if
she ever used the affected pseudo-French pronunciation of
"centimeter," She said no. She reports that older practitioners in
the field often use it, but most of the younger ones prefer
English. She had no recollection of ever hearing ser-VYE-cal and at
first wasn't even sure what I was saying.
[Maharaj-added groups trimmed. This thread started out on AUE
only.]
Peter Moylan
>The one that leaps to mind is "sonnemeter" for "centimeter". As in "the
>patient is dialated 10 sonnemeters" Anyone know how this came about?
Cerviacle was bad enough. Please tell me that that "dialated"
was a typo.
--
Peter Moylan pe...@ee.newcastle.edu.au
http://eepjm.newcastle.edu.au
R J Valentine
Well, one problem in perception is that the "n" in "centimeter" puts the
tongue in just the right position for the flappy sound, so the whole thing
is how hard a push it is given afterwards. An [I] sound (as in "tim")
after it may make it more audible than an [@] sound (as in "tum" (British
"term"?)) might make it seem, so the whole thing may come down to how loud
the spit bubble breaks.
--
R. J. Valentine <mailto:r...@smart.net>
Roger Whitehead
wrote:
> Please tell me that that "dialated" was a typo.
After that he dialnined.
Regards,
Roger
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Roger Whitehead,
Oxted, Surrey, England
Roger Whitehead
> Well, not quite. We tend to pronounce the 't' as /t/ and (dialects excepted)
> ignore the 'r'.
Ah, a hunter of /Pediculus capitis/ , I see.
R J Valentine
} Richard Crowley wrote:
}
}>The one that leaps to mind is "sonnemeter" for "centimeter". As in "the
}>patient is dialated 10 sonnemeters" Anyone know how this came about?
}
} Cerviacle was bad enough. Please tell me that that "dialated"
} was a typo.
It's better than "dialatated".
Thomas A Lawson
Poms and Ozzies put the stress on "me" in decimetre, centimetre and
millimetre.
Why is it that when they "kilometre", with stress on the "om".
Even the French put the stress on the "me" in "kilometre".
The Right and South Pondians slavishly follow French spelling, but not
pronunciation. The Left Pondians "Anglicized" the spelling, but follow
the French stress patter.
Why?
Of course, looking for rational explanations in the English language is
about as fruitful as seeking the Loch Ness Monster.
--
Regards,
Tom Lawson
http://www.ditpublishing.com
John Dean
Thomas A Lawson <jus...@ditpublishing.com> wrote in message
news:3AF48371...@ditpublishing.com...
>
> Of course, looking for rational explanations in the English language is
> about as fruitful as seeking the Loch Ness Monster.
Less so, because at least you get to enjoy great scenery at Loch Ness
--
John Dean -- Oxford
I am anti-spammed -- defrag me to reply
Philip Eden
> millimetre.
>
> Why is it that when they "kilometre", with stress on the "om".
>
> Even the French put the stress on the "me" in "kilometre".
>
> The Right and South Pondians slavishly follow French spelling, but not
> pronunciation. The Left Pondians "Anglicized" the spelling, but follow
> the French stress patter.
>
> Why?
>
> Tom Lawson
By no means all do. In fact I would say that the primary stress is
on the first syllable rather than the third. Including, as far as
I am concerned, kilometre. And please don't perpetuate the myth
that there is a given stress pattern in French words; rather, it
depends on the cadence of the phrases and sentences.
As for the idea of French stress patter, that's mildly amusing
but I'm easily amused these days.
PhilipE
Philip Eden
CBI <C.B.I.dele...@MailAndNews.com> wrote in message >
> I had a professor who did the same thing, only he was British. We used to
> poke fun of him by similarly altering other words like tra-KEE-a. It was
> never clear if he got the joke.
> --
> CBI, MD
>
if he tried it anywhere in the UK now.
PhilipE
Rowan Dingle
[...]
>As for the idea of French stress patter, that's mildly amusing
>but I'm easily amused these days.
Is it worth buying the Sunday Telegraph today? By which I mean, does it
contain the skinny on why the Thames is getting longer?
--
Rowan Dingle
Steve Hayes
<jus...@ditpublishing.com> wrote:
>> > It's derived from the French pronunciation of 'centimetre', which
>> > sounds something like 'sontimetter'. Possibly the Brits use this
>> > pronunciation, while the Americans say 'sentimeeter'.
>>
>> Do you have any evidence that we (British) do that? Cos we don't.
>> Sente-meeter. I've never heard sont from anyone but a French person.
>>
>> Jac
>
>
>Poms and Ozzies put the stress on "me" in decimetre, centimetre and
>millimetre.
>
>Why is it that when they "kilometre", with stress on the "om".
The English-speaking world is divided into those who say "KILL a metre", and
those who say kil-O-m@t@.
I tend to use the former.
Steve Hayes
http://www.suite101.com/myhome.cfm/methodius
Thomas A Lawson
Well, French patter occasionaly stresses me, but that is another matter.
I am pleased to hear that the "om" stres is not univeersal in Right
Pondia. However, it is standard in South Pondia.
After replaying the cassette, I must admit that the French pronunciation
of "kilometre" is unstressed.
As is the American pronunciation of "kilometer". Well, a bit on the
initial syllable.
Ozzan pronunciation of "decimetre", "centimetre" and "millimetre" is
lightly stressed on the first syllable, but Ozzans hammer the "om".
If they did not get this from Right Pondia, then whence?
Richard Fontana
I hear two pronunciations of "kilometer" in the US, /k@'lAm@tR/ and
/'kIl@mitR/. I think the first one is more prevalent, but then
most people rarely have reason to pronounce the word.
Thomas A Lawson
Don't the Yanks usually call'em "klicks"?
Richard Fontana
I don't think that term is known to most Yanks.
Steve Hayes
wrote:
Skinny?
That's a new one on me.
Steve Hayes
http://www.suite101.com/myhome.cfm/methodius
Charles Riggs
wrote:
>On Sun, 6 May 2001 13:03:03 +0100, Rowan Dingle <din...@nospam.demon.co.uk>
>wrote:
>
>>In alt.usage.english Philip Eden <phi...@weather.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>[...]
>>
>>>As for the idea of French stress patter, that's mildly amusing
>>>but I'm easily amused these days.
>>
>>Is it worth buying the Sunday Telegraph today? By which I mean, does it
>>contain the skinny on why the Thames is getting longer?
>
>Skinny?
>
>That's a new one on me.
It means correct information. Often called "the straight skinny".
Charles Riggs
Charles Riggs
<jus...@ditpublishing.com> wrote:
>Don't the Yanks usually call'em "klicks"?
The GIs stationed in Germany often called them that. Few Americans
would use that term today, I think.
Charles Riggs
Richard Fontana
> On Sun, 6 May 2001 13:03:03 +0100, Rowan Dingle <din...@nospam.demon.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> >In alt.usage.english Philip Eden <phi...@weather.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> >[...]
> >
> >>As for the idea of French stress patter, that's mildly amusing
> >>but I'm easily amused these days.
> >
> >Is it worth buying the Sunday Telegraph today? By which I mean, does it
> >contain the skinny on why the Thames is getting longer?
>
> Skinny?
>
> That's a new one on me.
World War II-era American soldier slang, I believe.
Peter Moylan
>Ozzan pronunciation of "decimetre", "centimetre" and "millimetre" is
>lightly stressed on the first syllable, but Ozzans hammer the "om".
Around here, hammering the 'om' in 'kilometre' is seen as a
vulgar Americanism.
Tom, several times recently you've made comments about Australian
usage that are totally at odds with my own experience. Are things
really that much different out west?
Peter Moylan
>The English-speaking world is divided into those who say "KILL a metre", and
>those who say kil-O-m@t@.
>
>I tend to use the former.
I use both. For me (and, in my experience, for most Australians) the
stress goes on the first syllable when it's a unit of measurement
(centimetre, kilometre, micrometre, etc.) and on the antepenultimate
syllable when it's a device for measuring something (thermometer,
micrometer, kilometer, etc.).
Furthermore, the word for a thousand metres ends in -re, while the
device for measuring kills ends in -er.
Rainer Thonnes
rho...@navegalia.com (Ross Howard) writes:
>>
>>No excuses for that one. Anyone saying "umbi-LYE-cal" is just
>>plain wrong. It could well be a kind of back-formation, by way
>>of a joke, from "ser-VYE-cal", and then somehow it caught on.
>>Have you heard "umbi-LYE-cal" in the UK, or just in the colonies?
>
>It's apparently common in gye-nuh-cuh-luh-JYE-cal and puh-DYE-uh-tric
>circles.
It might be expected that there should be some common ground between
gynaecologists and paediatricians, but surely puh-DYE-uh-tric (or
preferably puh-dye-ATT-ric) concerns feet, not children (podiatric).
Ross Howard
No, no, that's poe-deea-TRICK. Do try to keep up.
Ross Howard
Philip Eden
Rowan Dingle <din...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:yWgiqxA3...@wickenden.demon.co.uk...
You missed it. That was two weeks ago.
Philip E.
Roger Whitehead
> on the antepenultimate
> syllable when it's a device for measuring something (thermometer,
What's the last, a weighing machine or an odometer?
Regards,
Thomas A Lawson
Well, some things are kinda different.
One thing I thought was a Westernism is the pronunciation of
"anaesthetist", rendered as "aneethatist".
However, I have heard this same pronuciation from Eastern Staters.
How to you pronounce it?
I also remember getting a shock in Brisbane, back in the 60s. I was
visiting a friend, who suggested that we grab some beer and go out to
the paysho.
Is this common in Bananaland?
Peter Moylan
>In article <9d602e$14h$9...@seagoon.newcastle.edu.au>, Peter Moylan wrote:
>> on the antepenultimate
>> syllable when it's a device for measuring something (thermometer,
>> micrometer, kilometer . .
>
>What's the last, a weighing machine or an odometer?
None of the above. It's a device for doing body counts.
--
Peter Moylan pe...@ee.newcastle.edu.au
See http://eepjm.newcastle.edu.au for OS/2 information and software
Peter Moylan
>Peter Moylan wrote:
>> Tom, several times recently you've made comments about Australian
>> usage that are totally at odds with my own experience. Are things
>> really that much different out west?
>Well, some things are kinda different.
>
>One thing I thought was a Westernism is the pronunciation of
>"anaesthetist", rendered as "aneethatist".
>
>However, I have heard this same pronuciation from Eastern Staters.
>
>How to you pronounce it?
I pronounce the 's' myself, but I've heard 'aneethatist' in more
than one eastern state. Probably fairly widespread. I'm inclined
to forgive this one on the grounds that it's a difficult word,
possibly more difficult than 'Wednesday'.
>I also remember getting a shock in Brisbane, back in the 60s. I was
>visiting a friend, who suggested that we grab some beer and go out to
>the paysho.
>
>Is this common in Bananaland?
Sorry, but I can't even begin to guess what 'paysho' might be.
That's because most of my time in Qld has been spent on the
Gold Coast, and that's an area dominated by tourists. (It is
possible to pick the natives by the way they dress, but Gold
Coast natives are a special case linguistically: they rarely come
out with a sentence that's more than one syllable long.)
Moving north to Brisbane, you're still not getting your true
banana-benders. Half the population is made up of retirees
from Victoria. Even as far up as Noosa there's a heavy
influence from what Joh used to call 'you people down south'.
You People Down South try to bring your communist ideas
up here and I, I, I'm telling you it's no good, because we don't
think, it's not good enough, by God you deserve a good
whipping for all those lies you write in your newspapers.
No, to find your true Queenslander you have to head inland
to cow-and-peanut country, or up to the stretch between
Rockhampton and Townsville that specialises in urban rednecks,
or up to the Gulf Country where they don't believe in
abominations like towns. You get some fascinating
quasi-dialects in all of those places, but I wouldn't have a
clue which word belongs to which region. I still have trouble,
after all these years, even managing to talk Newcastle.
Jacqui
> Rowan Dingle wrote
> > Is it worth buying the Sunday Telegraph today? By which I mean, does it
> > contain the skinny on why the Thames is getting longer?
>
> You missed it. That was two weeks ago.
I read it but I can't say I particularly understood WHY. Sorry. :(
Jac
Rowan Dingle
>You missed it. That was two weeks ago.
Oh no, it's happened again - another Lost Fortnight!
--
Rowan Dingle
Philip Eden
Jacqui <Sirlawren...@baa.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3AF79FF9...@baa.hotmail.com...
Jacqui,
What was so difficult?
P.
David McMurray
Peter Moylan <ro...@seagoon.newcastle.edu.au> wrote:
> Thomas A Lawson <jus...@ditpublishing.com> wrote:
[...]
> >I also remember getting a shock in Brisbane, back in the 60s. I was
> >visiting a friend, who suggested that we grab some beer and go out to
> >the paysho.
> >
> >Is this common in Bananaland?
>
> Sorry, but I can't even begin to guess what 'paysho' might be.
Just be payshent -- it'll come to you.
[...]
--
David
Jacqui
> Jacqui wrote
> > > Rowan Dingle wrote
> >
> > > > Is it worth buying the Sunday Telegraph today? By which I mean, does
> it
> > > > contain the skinny on why the Thames is getting longer?
> > >
> > > You missed it. That was two weeks ago.
> >
> > I read it but I can't say I particularly understood WHY. Sorry. :(
> What was so difficult?
I don't know offhand without rereading (can't find it in the Telegraph
search engine) but ISTR thinking that I didn't quite "get" it. That's no
reflection on you (I usually enjoy the columns), just a lack of
appropriate knowledge on my part I suspect.
Jac
Mike Barnes
>Anyone fancy seeing me
>with a G-spot?
Posting a binary here would be Bad Form, but if you put the picture on
the web and posted the URL, it might be worth a look, yes.
--
Mike Barnes
Mike Lyle
Jacqui wrote:
>
>Beverly Erlebacher wrote:
>> "Richard Crowley posted:
>> >
>> > The medical biz seems to have their own pronunciation of several
>> > other words for which civilians have chosen a preferred pronunciation.
>> > The one that leaps to mind is "sonnemeter" for "centimeter". As in "the
>> > patient is dialated 10 sonnemeters" Anyone know how this came about?
>>
>> It's derived from the French pronunciation of 'centimetre', which
>> sounds something like 'sontimetter'. Possibly the Brits use this
>> pronunciation, while the Americans say 'sentimeeter'.
>
>Do you have any evidence that we (British) do that? Cos we don't.
>Sente-meeter. I've never heard sont from anyone but a French person.
>
said it was French influence, even though their usual European language was
English.
Mike.
Philip Eden
In summary: the recent rains led to a rise in the water-table, which
in turn led to springs running from a higher level than usual. When
springs break out from a higher level they appear further "upstream" -
in this case about a mile west of the "official" source of the Thames,
making the river about a mile longer. HTH.
P.
Jacqui
> Jacqui wrote
> > Philip Eden wrote:
> > > Jacqui wrote
> > > > Philip Eden wrote:
> > > > > Rowan Dingle wrote
> > > > > > why the Thames is getting longer?
> > > > >
> > > > > You missed it. That was two weeks ago.
> > > >
> > > > I read it but I can't say I particularly understood WHY. Sorry. :(
> >
> > > What was so difficult?
> >
> > I don't know offhand without rereading (can't find it in the Telegraph
> > search engine) but ISTR thinking that I didn't quite "get" it. That's no
> > reflection on you (I usually enjoy the columns), just a lack of
> > appropriate knowledge on my part I suspect.
> In summary: the recent rains led to a rise in the water-table, which
> in turn led to springs running from a higher level than usual. When
> springs break out from a higher level they appear further "upstream" -
> in this case about a mile west of the "official" source of the Thames,
> making the river about a mile longer. HTH.
Ah. I'm with you now. So the bit of water gushing out of the ground
somewhere is now gushing out somewhere further <-- that way, making the
distance to the sea a bit further than usual. But why does rain mean the
springs come out higher? Is it something to do with "the water table"?
(I think that's the bit I didn't get.)
Jac
John Dean
> Philip Eden wrote:
>
> Ah. I'm with you now. So the bit of water gushing out of the ground
> somewhere is now gushing out somewhere further <-- that way, making the
> distance to the sea a bit further than usual. But why does rain mean the
> springs come out higher? Is it something to do with "the water table"?
> (I think that's the bit I didn't get.)
They didn't teach you the water table at school ? <sigh>
One times water is damp
Two times water is wet
Three times water is soaking
Four times water is sopping
Five times water is flooding ......
--
John Dean -- Oxford
I am anti-spammed -- defrag me to reply
Mike Lyle
Thomas A Lawson wrote:
>
>Peter Moylan wrote:
>>
>> Tom [Lawson], several times recently you've made comments about Australian
>> usage that are totally at odds with my own experience. Are things
>> really that much different out west?
>>
[Tom said]
>the paysho.
>
>Is this common in Bananaland?
>
Peter then accurately libelled about half my family.
My question: in NSW we had a "bush-house"; a Western friend called it a
"sleep-out". Is there still a difference in usage?
And were we using my father's Banana-speak or my mother's Victorian?
Mike.
Thomas A Lawson
>
> Thomas A Lawson <jus...@ditpublishing.com> wrote:
> >Peter Moylan wrote:
>
> >> Tom, several times recently you've made comments about Australian
> >> usage that are totally at odds with my own experience. Are things
> >> really that much different out west?
>
> >Well, some things are kinda different.
> >
> >One thing I thought was a Westernism is the pronunciation of
> >"anaesthetist", rendered as "aneethatist".
> >
> >However, I have heard this same pronuciation from Eastern Staters.
> >
> >How to you pronounce it?
>
> I pronounce the 's' myself, but I've heard 'aneethatist' in more
> than one eastern state. Probably fairly widespread. I'm inclined
> to forgive this one on the grounds that it's a difficult word,
> possibly more difficult than 'Wednesday'.
>
> >I also remember getting a shock in Brisbane, back in the 60s. I was
> >visiting a friend, who suggested that we grab some beer and go out to
> >the paysho.
> >
> >Is this common in Bananaland?
>
> Sorry, but I can't even begin to guess what 'paysho' might be.
Patio.
snip
Peter Moylan
Thank you, it all comes back now.
It's an interesting word. My dictionary gives two pronunciations,
without any indication that one might be substandard. I'd guess
that patty-oh is the dominant one, but paysho is definitely
heard. I don't know what the geographic distribution might be.
It would be interesting to do a Richoux Ratty-oh on this, but
Google doesn't tell us about pronunciations.
The only other word I can think of that's comparable (in terms of
keeping the hard 't') to patio is ratiocination, which is not exactly
a common word. If you go by analogies, then paysho is actually the
more logical pronunciation. It might well be product of people who
got their vocabulary from books, the sort of people who grew up
thinking that 'misle' is a word.
I say patty-oh myself, but I'm starting to wonder whether paysho
should be counted as the more educated form. How is it
pronounced in Spain?
ObThreadDrift: while riffling through the dictionary I noticed the
entry for 'parity'. The last part of the definition says
6. Computers. a method of checking information in a computer,
by counting the number of digits in a binary number.
The Macquarie Dictionary, a first-rate dictionary in most respects,
has always been particularly bad on computing terminology.
According to the credits their computer specialist is someone from
a psychology department. Not an appropriate choice, one would have
thought, but perhaps they couldn't find a computer person who could
read and write.
Peter Moylan
>>Peter Moylan wrote:
>Peter then accurately libelled about half my family.
Sorry, Mike, I thought you were from further south. Maybe I should start
libelling the crow-eaters; we don't seem to have any of them among
the aue regulars.
>My question: in NSW we had a "bush-house"; a Western friend called it a
>"sleep-out". Is there still a difference in usage?
>
>And were we using my father's Banana-speak or my mother's Victorian?
Before giving my own answer, I'd like to give the Macquarie definitions,
which are interesting from several points of view.
bush house /'bUS hAUs/, n. 1. a rough dwelling in the bush.
2. a small garden shelter in which plants being cultivated
are protected from wind and weather, usu. with roof and sides
thatched with dead native foliage.
sleep-out /'slip-AUt/, n. a partially enclosed porch or
verandah, used as sleeping quarters.
None of those is what you meant, right? I think you've found some
meanings that didn't get recorded.
'Bush house' is unfamiliar to me, so it's probably from Queensland.
I can confirm that 'sleep-out' is known in both Victoria and NSW.
A sleep-out can be a modified back verandah, as the dictionary
says, but more commonly the sleep-out is a separate building, a
sort of shed that's been fitted out as a bedroom. It's a common
solution to the problem of having more children than house, and
they can be found both in suburbia and in country towns. (Not
so much out in the bush, where houses are often big enough for
a large family.) Now that the baby boom is over and grey power is
the coming thing, the estate agents are starting to call them
granny flats.
Frances Kemmish
>
> Mike Lyle wrote:
> >>Peter Moylan wrote:
>
> >Peter then accurately libelled about half my family.
>
> Sorry, Mike, I thought you were from further south. Maybe I should start
> libelling the crow-eaters; we don't seem to have any of them among
> the aue regulars.
Someone who posts to another newsgroup that I follow calls herself a
"crow-eater". I don't think anyone ever asked her what she meant by
it. So, where does she come from?
Fran
lurkeress
From the Fairfield Primary School webpage
http://www.fairfieldps.vic.edu.au/australia/sa.htm
If you live in SA* you can be called 'A Crow Eater' !!
*The capital of South Australia is Adelaide.
"Frances Kemmish" <arc...@iconn.net> wrote in message
news:3AF96A0B...@iconn.net...
Frances Kemmish
>
> From the Fairfield Primary School webpage
> http://www.fairfieldps.vic.edu.au/australia/sa.htm
>
> If you live in SA* you can be called 'A Crow Eater' !!
>
> *The capital of South Australia is Adelaide.
>
I looked at that web page. Do they really eat meat pies floating in
pea soup?
Fran
N.Mitchum
----
> I looked at that web page. Do they really eat meat pies floating in
> pea soup?
Wow! They eat the pies while floating in soup?
----NM
Peter Moylan
Indeed they do. For some strange reason they haven't managed to
export the recipe to anywhere else, so it's the only place on the
entire planet where you can buy a floater.
I've never tried it myself, so I can't report on the taste.
Adelaide is an interesting place. From one point of view it's
the most cultured city in Australia. It's the city of churches,
the focus of arts festivals, home to several universities and I don't
know what else. It has excellent restaurants that don't have
floating pies on the menu. Just outside the city you have the
Barossa Valley, the source of the very best red wines in the
country. Take a walk around the centre of Adelaide and you feel
that you're in a civilised land. Drive through the suburbs and
you discover the Australian dream, comfortable housing in
pleasant surroundings.
Drive a little further, though, and you find yourself in a hostile
desert. You're in the middle of nowhere. Oh, yes, there are a
few small towns out there, a few farms, but basically South
Australia is an empty state with one big city and a few smaller
towns hanging on to the fringe.
This has had an interesting effect on the people of Adelaide.
For them Adelaide is South Australia, and South Australia is Adelaide.
It's hard to get them even to admit that there's a whole lot of
country out there. They've drawn a cocoon around themselves, a
defence against the terrible emptiness that surrounds them. They
try to deny to themselves that that emptiness exists. If they
travel to other states they travel by air, so that they can step
directly from one big city to another without seeing the bit in
between.
Australia has a lot of wilderness, a lot of desert, huge areas
which are marginally habitable or not at all habitable. We
Australians are comfortable with that situation -- it's part of
the beauty of the place -- and are happy enough living in the
parts that are eminently habitable. (And that includes the
small-town South Australians, who don't have such a blinkered
view of their state as the Adelaideans have.) Adelaide is
special because it's the one place in the country, in my experience,
where you get such an abrupt transition between the oasis and the
desert.
Stan Busby
I am an American who had occasion to drive from
Sydney to Melbourne via Eden and back via
Wagga-Wagga. I had a map. On the map are
"traces" and "tracks". I have concluded that a
trace is what happen if you go that way the
first time. It becomes a track if you come back
the same way.
Peter Moylan
>I am an American who had occasion to drive from
>Sydney to Melbourne via Eden and back via
>Wagga-Wagga. I had a map. On the map are
>"traces" and "tracks". I have concluded that a
>trace is what happen if you go that way the
>first time. It becomes a track if you come back
>the same way.
Very close. A trace means that someone has passed that way before.
A track means that they probably reached their destination.
Your trip must have been long ago, though. Nowadays both those
routes involve sealed roads for the entire distance. The
inland route is for when you're in a hurry. The coastal route
is for when you'd like to bum around, spend the nights at a
few campsites, loll on the beaches. Some of the Victorian
beaches along that section would freeze the nuts off a tractor,
but the scenery is beautiful. Once you round the corner and
get into the NSW south coast you're into warm weather and surfer
country. Just don't try to drive to the national capital from
anywhere around there. It looks easy enough on the maps,
but you'll break an axle for sure.
Now if you'd gone a little further inland, over to the Birdsville
track for example ... there's a place that consumes its share
of tourists, and sometimes even a couple of the locals. <Serious
mode on>. If you're ever planning to go that way, make sure you
inform the local police. That way they'll send out a search
party once they notice you've haven't been seen for a few weeks.
Mike Lyle
Moylan wrote:
>
>Stan Busby wrote:
>
>>I am an American who had occasion to drive from
>>Sydney to Melbourne via Eden and back via
>>Wagga-Wagga. I had a map. On the map are
>>"traces" and "tracks". I have concluded that a
>>trace is what happen if you go that way the
>>first time. It becomes a track if you come back
>>the same way.
>
>Very close. A trace means that someone has passed that way before.
>A track means that they probably reached their destination.
>
When ah itches, ah scratches.
Mike.