Misle list 2002

233 views
Skip to first unread message

Donna Richoux

unread,
Mar 13, 2002, 6:11:00 PM3/13/02
to
I promised to update the misle list. Actually, once I set aside the
foreign words and proper names, on the principle that it is quite
routine for them to be misleading, I was left with only these recent
additions:

deicer
fathead
potash
sidereal
titleist
unshed

A grand summary of all collected misles, now (for the first time!) in
alphabetical order:

ampitheater
apply (like lemony)
baketable
barfly
barroom
bassethorns.
bedraggled
bedrock
beribboned
biopic
boathouse
bootheels
codenamed
codeveloper
coworker
deicer
fathead
goatherd
infrared
manslaughter
menswear
menus
middecade
miniseries
misheard
misled
molester (like hamster)
moped
mothers (like butterfly-lovers)
porthole
potash
pothole
redrawing
riverbed
shelfreading
sidereal
sundried
sundry
therapist
titleist
triphammer
tutus
underfed
undermined (resembles "undetermined")
unionized periodic acid, which is pronounced by chemists
"un-ionized per-iodic acid"
unshed
warchest
warplane
watershed
--------------
What IS all this about, some of you are saying. It's hard to give a
definition of a misle. These are words that people have reported have
actually misled them, because the spelling suggests another
pronunciation. It usually gives just a momentary sensation of confusion,
although the mistake may continue for years, as people have reported
that the word "misled" did in their childhood.

I do have notes in my file as to who reported these. I'd like to keep
the list to actual reports of being misled, and not merely jokes or
possibilities. I have my doubts about that "Handbook for Young Mothers."

--
Respectfully submitted -- Donna Richoux

Frances Kemmish

unread,
Mar 13, 2002, 7:07:32 PM3/13/02
to
Donna Richoux wrote:
>
> I promised to update the misle list. Actually, once I set aside the
> foreign words and proper names, on the principle that it is quite
> routine for them to be misleading, I was left with only these recent
> additions:
>
> deicer
> fathead
> potash
> sidereal
> titleist
> unshed
>

I came across one the other day, in that interminable "Electric
Kettle" discussion, I think. Someone referred to "mirage", and my
first thought was that he was talking about something akin to
"drainage" or "seepage".

Fran

John Hatpin

unread,
Mar 13, 2002, 8:10:50 PM3/13/02
to
Frances Kemmish <fkem...@optonline.net> wrote:

I was a little surprised not to see "posthumous". Or is it just me, I
wonder.
--
John H
Yorkshire, England

Pat Durkin

unread,
Mar 13, 2002, 11:17:20 PM3/13/02
to

"Donna Richoux" <tr...@euronet.nl> wrote in message
news:1f90ctk.16csw8t1dfd8u7N%tr...@euronet.nl...

> I promised to update the misle list. Actually, once I set aside the
> foreign words and proper names, on the principle that it is quite
> routine for them to be misleading, I was left with only these recent
> additions:
>
> deicer
> fathead
> potash
> sidereal
> titleist
> unshed
>
Can I nominate? :
One entry found for mishit.


Main Entry: mis搬it
Pronunciation: "mis-'hit
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): -hit; -hit暗ing
Date: 1904
: to hit in a faulty manner

Randy Orrison

unread,
Mar 14, 2002, 2:00:10 AM3/14/02
to
Another for your list: melancholy. I can remember (though it was many
years ago) realizing that meh-LAN-cho-ly (which I'd only ever read)
and melon-collie (which I'd only ever heard) were the same word.

Randy
--
-randyo
Randy Orrison -- Orrison Consulting Ltd. -- rorr...@hotmail.com
The reply address is valid, but a spam trap. Use bigfoot
instead of hotmail if you want a response.

dcw

unread,
Mar 14, 2002, 4:26:07 AM3/14/02
to
In article <1f90ctk.16csw8t1dfd8u7N%tr...@euronet.nl>,
Donna Richoux <tr...@euronet.nl> wrote:

>What IS all this about, some of you are saying. It's hard to give a
>definition of a misle. These are words that people have reported have
>actually misled them, because the spelling suggests another
>pronunciation. It usually gives just a momentary sensation of confusion,
>although the mistake may continue for years, as people have reported
>that the word "misled" did in their childhood.

In the "momentary confusion" class: "predate", "recover", "reformed",
which should have had hyphens.

Also a couple of mishy-phens: "tapestry" divided as "tape-stry", and a
real killer from Johnson's dictionary, under "Diarrhoea":

... cured either by purging off the cause, or by restring-
ing the bowels.

David

Matti Lamprhey

unread,
Mar 14, 2002, 4:57:28 AM3/14/02
to
"Donna Richoux" <tr...@euronet.nl> wrote...
> [...]
> undermined (resembles "undetermined")

I'd accept "undermined" as a mishy-phen candidate, but to include it as a
misle for the reason that someone once misread it as another word seems
quite wrong. That would be an opener of floodgates; a wedge flaunting its
dainty end.

Matti


Donna Richoux

unread,
Mar 14, 2002, 6:25:44 AM3/14/02
to
Matti Lamprhey <matti-...@totally-official.com> wrote:

Well, I didn't mean a person looked at it and thought it was
"undetermined." I was trying to give a clue as to the mispronunciation.
Un-DER-minnd. It rhymes with "determined."

Some people look at these lists and are quite baffled as to how anyone
could possibly pronounce the words a different way. Sometimes, like
"baketable" and "marketable," the clue lies in the resemblance to
another word.

If my attempted clue was poor, I can find another way to convey the
idea. There's always ASCII IPA (said she unenthusiastically).

--
Best -- Donna Richoux

Philip Eden

unread,
Mar 14, 2002, 6:59:10 AM3/14/02
to

Donna Richoux <tr...@euronet.nl> wrote in message
news:1f90ctk.16csw8t1dfd8u7N%tr...@euronet.nl...
> What IS all this about, some of you are saying. It's hard to give a
> definition of a misle. These are words that people have reported have
> actually misled them, because the spelling suggests another
> pronunciation. It usually gives just a momentary sensation of confusion,
> although the mistake may continue for years, as people have reported
> that the word "misled" did in their childhood.
>
> I do have notes in my file as to who reported these. I'd like to keep
> the list to actual reports of being misled, and not merely jokes or
> possibilities. I have my doubts about that "Handbook for Young Mothers."
>
One of the more embarrassing events from my school days was
standing up in class and reading out an entire poem about
a bushranger (as BUSH-RANG-@), the word appearing half a dozen
times at least. I obviously had no idea what I was reading.

The word 'clerestory' featured here a few months ago, a word
that would, at a guess, catch out 9 out of 10 adults.

This thread has record-breaking potential ....

Philip Eden


John Hatpin

unread,
Mar 14, 2002, 7:11:54 AM3/14/02
to
John Hatpin <ag...@brookview.kaDELETETHISBITroo.co.uk> wrote:

Oh, and another one: "haphazard", which, as a kid, I read and
pronounced "hah-fer-ZARD".

Bill Schnakenberg

unread,
Mar 14, 2002, 7:39:09 AM3/14/02
to
John Hatpin wrote:

>
> >>
> >>I came across one the other day, in that interminable "Electric
> >>Kettle" discussion, I think. Someone referred to "mirage", and my
> >>first thought was that he was talking about something akin to
> >>"drainage" or "seepage".
> >
> >I was a little surprised not to see "posthumous". Or is it just me, I
> >wonder.
>
> Oh, and another one: "haphazard", which, as a kid, I read and
> pronounced "hah-fer-ZARD".

As a child, I remember the epiphany when discovering the correct
pronounciation of the written word 'recipe'.


--
Bill

Gary Vellenzer

unread,
Mar 14, 2002, 7:57:59 AM3/14/02
to
In article <1f90ctk.16csw8t1dfd8u7N%tr...@euronet.nl>, tr...@euronet.nl
says...

>
> ampitheater

It's not as good an example if you spell it "amphitheater", but the
quibblers won't go after you either.


Gary

Anno Siegel

unread,
Mar 14, 2002, 8:22:19 AM3/14/02
to
According to Donna Richoux <tr...@euronet.nl>:

> I promised to update the misle list. Actually, once I set aside the
> foreign words and proper names, on the principle that it is quite
> routine for them to be misleading, I was left with only these recent
> additions:
>
> deicer
> fathead
> potash
> sidereal
> titleist
> unshed

[...]

sonofabitch?

It does appear in print, and it throws me every time.

Anno

Donna Richoux

unread,
Mar 14, 2002, 9:52:46 AM3/14/02
to
Gary Vellenzer <gvell...@nyc.rr.com> wrote:

Yeah, that one has to come off of there. The guy reported he said it as
"armpit-heater" but that depends on ignoring the first h.

Mark Barratt

unread,
Mar 14, 2002, 11:32:32 AM3/14/02
to
On Thu, 14 Mar 2002 00:11:00 +0100, tr...@euronet.nl (Donna Richoux)
wrote:

>
>moped

I presume that the past tense of the verb "mope" is intended here. In
the UK, "moped" pronounced mo-ped, is also a noun indicating what's
known around here as a "bromfiets" (from "motor" and "pedals"). I
don't think there's an American equivalent word.

Presumably you would want to eliminate non-homophonous homonyms like
"bow" and "lead", so I also wonder about "sundry". Presumably
"sun-dry" is an actual word (although I would not personally omit the
hyphen).

--
Mark Barratt
"Geloof je in liefde op het eerste gezicht, of moet ik nog een keer
langslopen?"
--
The oldest silence speaks the loudest.

Joe Manfre

unread,
Mar 14, 2002, 1:39:59 PM3/14/02
to
Mark Barratt (mark.b...@chello.be) wrote:
>tr...@euronet.nl (Donna Richoux) wrote:

>>moped
>
>I presume that the past tense of the verb "mope" is intended here. In
>the UK, "moped" pronounced mo-ped, is also a noun indicating what's
>known around here as a "bromfiets" (from "motor" and "pedals"). I
>don't think there's an American equivalent word.

Eh? We've got mopeds here too. Why wouldn't we?

I know that when I were a lad in school I did indeed read a story
called "The Missing Moped", in which I guess somebody's moped was
missing, and I sure did misread the title. (Wouldn't you mope if you
were missing?) I don't think I was particularly familiar with the
verb "mope" then, but I read the noun "moped" as /moUpt/, understood
that it was a noun, and couldn't guess what it meant until my brane
made the connection with "mo-ped". I guess that experience makes me
sympathetic to the idea of treating "moped" as a misle.


>Presumably you would want to eliminate non-homophonous homonyms like
>"bow" and "lead", so I also wonder about "sundry". Presumably
>"sun-dry" is an actual word (although I would not personally omit the
>hyphen).

Sure -- it's how you make sundried tomatoes. (Chopping them in a
blender?)


JM

Richard Fontana

unread,
Mar 14, 2002, 2:11:20 PM3/14/02
to
On Thu, 14 Mar 2002, Mark Barratt wrote:

> On Thu, 14 Mar 2002 00:11:00 +0100, tr...@euronet.nl (Donna Richoux)
> wrote:
>
> >
> >moped
>
> I presume that the past tense of the verb "mope" is intended here. In
> the UK, "moped" pronounced mo-ped, is also a noun indicating what's
> known around here as a "bromfiets" (from "motor" and "pedals"). I
> don't think there's an American equivalent word.

Sure there is -- "moped". Not that you see too many people utilizing
such vehicles nowadays.

John Hatpin

unread,
Mar 14, 2002, 3:31:51 PM3/14/02
to
tr...@euronet.nl (Donna Richoux) wrote:

I don't see anything at all wrong with the way you've already
described it. Some of the others I had to think about, but it was
worth the effort for the chortle of recognition.

Shakib Otaqui

unread,
Mar 14, 2002, 12:48:23 PM3/14/02
to
In article <4mtv8uouda0ql2ju6...@4ax.com>,
John Hatpin <ag...@brookview.kaDELETETHISBITroo.co.uk>
wrote:

> [...]


> I was a little surprised not to see "posthumous". Or is it just me, I
> wonder.

That's the supply of a Middle Eastern food by mail, isn't it?

--


Jeff Chapman

unread,
Mar 14, 2002, 4:15:10 PM3/14/02
to
According to Donna Richoux <tr...@euronet.nl>:
> I promised to update the misle list. Actually, once I set aside the
> foreign words and proper names, on the principle that it is quite
> routine for them to be misleading, I was left with only these recent
> additions:
>
> deicer
> fathead
> potash
> sidereal
> titleist
> unshed

Hi Donna,

Well, for years I read epitome as the three syllable ep-i-tome (long
o). The fellow is the ep-i-tome of laziness... I took it to be some
kind of tome. All that time I also heard people speak of uh-pit-uh-me
of laziness, however I took that for a different word, probably
spelled, oh... opitumi. Was I surprised!

-- Jeff
(the epitome of time wasters)

Trevor Coultart

unread,
Mar 14, 2002, 4:49:02 PM3/14/02
to
On 13/3/02 11:11 pm, Donna Richoux posted:

> I promised to update the misle list. Actually, once I set aside the
> foreign words and proper names, on the principle that it is quite
> routine for them to be misleading, I was left with only these recent
> additions:
>

I was so pleased to see the title of this as the "misle list". I had no idea
that being misled by "misled" was so common. It still throws me every time,
but I had thought I was the only one! Thank you!

Trevor Coultart
---

J. J. Lodder

unread,
Mar 14, 2002, 6:52:34 PM3/14/02
to
Mark Barratt <mark.b...@chello.be> wrote:

> Mark Barratt
> "Geloof je in liefde op het eerste gezicht, of moet ik nog een keer
> langslopen?"

langslopen is a good one too,

Jan

John Hatpin

unread,
Mar 14, 2002, 7:28:39 PM3/14/02
to
sha...@tinlc.lumbercartel.com (Shakib Otaqui) wrote:

Yes, or perhaps leaf litter ...

John Dean

unread,
Mar 14, 2002, 8:08:13 PM3/14/02
to

"John Hatpin" <ag...@brooREMOVEMEkview.karoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:50229u8747r9sqs0b...@4ax.com...

> tr...@euronet.nl (Donna Richoux) wrote:
>
> >Matti Lamprhey <matti-...@totally-official.com> wrote:
> >
> >> "Donna Richoux" <tr...@euronet.nl> wrote...
> >> > [...]
> >> > undermined (resembles "undetermined")
> >>
> >
> >If my attempted clue was poor, I can find another way to convey the
> >idea. There's always ASCII IPA (said she unenthusiastically).
>
> I don't see anything at all wrong with the way you've already
> described it. Some of the others I had to think about, but it was
> worth the effort for the chortle of recognition.
>

It took me a long time to associate the 'salvalatelly' my mother talked
about with the 'sal volatile' I read about in 19th Century novels.
And what about hyperbole?
--
John Dean
Oxford
De-frag to reply


Robert Bannister

unread,
Mar 14, 2002, 8:35:46 PM3/14/02
to
Philip Eden wrote:

I was 7 before I realised that the word I pronounced in my head as sokitty,
was, in fact, said soss eye etty. I thought they were 2 different words.


--
Rob Bannister

Tony Cooper

unread,
Mar 14, 2002, 10:06:07 PM3/14/02
to
Richard Fontana wrote:
>
> Sure there is -- "moped". Not that you see too many people utilizing
> such vehicles nowadays.

Ah, Richard, there go again being insular again. Mopeds and
scooter are having a tremendous revival in the U.S.
(excluding your neighborhood) See:
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/features/lifestyle/orl-livscooter12031202mar12.story
for an article about the large number of scooters and mopeds
at Daytona's Bike Week.

Vespa is opening dealerships all over the country. The
Vespa is the darling of the upper crust crowd. Any Honda or
Kawasaki motorcycle dealership will have rows of different
brands in stock.

You may argue that a moped and a scooter are different, but
"such vehicles" include both to average person. A moped is
really a bicycle with a motor that is usually started by
pedaling. The scooter either kick-starts or has electric
start. "Whizzer" still builds and sells mopeds, and several
dealers in the U.S. sell mopeds made in India and other
Asian countries. I'm surprised that you don't see "such
vehicles" around.

It used to be that any vehicle with less than a 50cc engine
did not require a driver's license in many states. Most
states have eliminated this loophole for on-street driving
since so many people with their driver's license revoked
took to mopeds.

--
Tony Cooper aka: tony_co...@yahoo.com
Provider of Jots and Tittles

Skitt

unread,
Mar 14, 2002, 10:16:32 PM3/14/02
to

"Tony Cooper" <tony_co...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> It used to be that any vehicle with less than a 50cc engine
> did not require a driver's license in many states. Most
> states have eliminated this loophole for on-street driving
> since so many people with their driver's license revoked
> took to mopeds.

Yeah, but now, in some places, they won't even let you walk while drunk. I
remember the times when I had to get out of bed and go retrieve my late
wife's son from downtown Livermore, when he got detained for walking while
drunk (being drunk in public), trying to navigate his way home after the
bars had closed. The police saw him fall down at a curb once, and that was
it.
--
Skitt (in SF Bay Area) http://www.geocities.com/opus731/
I speak English well -- I learn it from a book!
-- Manuel (Fawlty Towers)


Richard Fontana

unread,
Mar 14, 2002, 10:58:43 PM3/14/02
to
On Thu, 14 Mar 2002, Tony Cooper wrote:

> Richard Fontana wrote:
> >
> > Sure there is -- "moped". Not that you see too many people utilizing
> > such vehicles nowadays.
>
> Ah, Richard, there go again being insular again. Mopeds and
> scooter are having a tremendous revival in the U.S.
> (excluding your neighborhood) See:
> http://www.orlandosentinel.com/features/lifestyle/orl-livscooter12031202mar12.story
> for an article about the large number of scooters and mopeds
> at Daytona's Bike Week.

Coop, I am sure that these things are very popular down on the Florida
Peninsula. But nationally popular? I dunno. It might be a Balmy
Weather Thing, or a BWT.

> Vespa is opening dealerships all over the country. The
> Vespa is the darling of the upper crust crowd. Any Honda or
> Kawasaki motorcycle dealership will have rows of different
> brands in stock.
>
> You may argue that a moped and a scooter are different, but
> "such vehicles" include both to average person.

I'm not sure about this, Coop. I don't know from these subcultural
practices, yet I have a fair idea of the difference between a
moped and a scooter. Very different consumer demographics too, I'd
think. (Vide infra.)

> A moped is
> really a bicycle with a motor that is usually started by
> pedaling. The scooter either kick-starts or has electric
> start. "Whizzer" still builds and sells mopeds, and several
> dealers in the U.S. sell mopeds made in India and other
> Asian countries. I'm surprised that you don't see "such
> vehicles" around.

I remember seeing mopeds back in the 1970s. Lots of people
in Brooklyn and Queens had 'em. Some people had "motor-bikes" too,
which were different -- I forget exactly how; Coop, do you know? And
I remember scooters being briefly popular during the early 1980s. So
I see both practices, if they are being repopularized today, as
"retro" trends, but separate ones.

I can't remember the last time I saw either a scooter or a moped on
the Road here in Connecticut. Maybe never. But there's plenty
of Weekend Outlaw Biker Subculture types -- completely different.
You see them on Sundays travelling from one assisted living community
to the next. (NTTAWWT.)

Mark Barratt

unread,
Mar 14, 2002, 11:35:19 PM3/14/02
to

I thought it was quite cute, but maybe I'm missing something. Here's
my translation:

Do you believe in love at first sight, or do I have to walk past
again?

--
Ik ben maar beginelling in het Nederlands.
Dus, alle verbeteringen zal welkom worden.

Tony Cooper

unread,
Mar 15, 2002, 12:19:15 AM3/15/02
to

Talk to the people at Vespa of Ridgefield on Ethan Allen
Parkway.


But there's plenty
> of Weekend Outlaw Biker Subculture types -- completely different.
> You see them on Sundays travelling from one assisted living community
> to the next. (NTTAWWT.)

Well, it was 82 (F) here today, and the scooters and mopeds
are out. Come summer, you may see the surge in interest in
this form of transportation. Motorcycles tend to be almost
year-round since they are more basic transportation than
alternative transportation. They are alternative
transportation for dentists, lawyers, and other wild ones in
the corporate world.

I would consider a moped to be a motor bike. Mopeds have
larger wheels - 24" to 26" - and scooters have smaller
ones. Mopeds and motor bikes can be pedaled manually. The
Whizzer
http://whizzermotorbike.catalog.com/browseGroup.cfm?item_group_id=48621
is what I'd call a motor bike.

Charles Riggs

unread,
Mar 15, 2002, 12:55:25 AM3/15/02
to

How soon, though, will you learn the meaning of epiphany?

Charles Riggs

Richard Fontana

unread,
Mar 15, 2002, 2:18:52 AM3/15/02
to
On Fri, 15 Mar 2002, Tony Cooper wrote:

> > I can't remember the last time I saw either a scooter or a moped on
> > the Road here in Connecticut. Maybe never.
>
> Talk to the people at Vespa of Ridgefield on Ethan Allen
> Parkway.

Coop, there ain't no Ethan Allen Parkway. I think you mean the Ethan
Allen Highway. 'Cept no one calls it that. They call it "Historic
Route 7" (except when it's a speedtra^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H limited access
highway, in which case it becomes known as "Super 7"). Actually, down
Ridgefield way some call it the Danbury Road. You'd like that area,
Coop. Lots of car dealerships!

Historic Route 7 is a fine road. It's almost as great as Historic
Route 1, with which I'm sure you're familiar.


Steve Hayes

unread,
Mar 15, 2002, 4:15:47 AM3/15/02
to
On Thu, 14 Mar 2002 18:39:59 GMT, man...@world.std.com (Joe Manfre) wrote:

>Mark Barratt (mark.b...@chello.be) wrote:
>>tr...@euronet.nl (Donna Richoux) wrote:
>
>>>moped
>>
>>I presume that the past tense of the verb "mope" is intended here. In
>>the UK, "moped" pronounced mo-ped, is also a noun indicating what's
>>known around here as a "bromfiets" (from "motor" and "pedals"). I
>>don't think there's an American equivalent word.
>
>Eh? We've got mopeds here too. Why wouldn't we?
>
>I know that when I were a lad in school I did indeed read a story
>called "The Missing Moped", in which I guess somebody's moped was
>missing, and I sure did misread the title. (Wouldn't you mope if you
>were missing?) I don't think I was particularly familiar with the
>verb "mope" then, but I read the noun "moped" as /moUpt/, understood
>that it was a noun, and couldn't guess what it meant until my brane
>made the connection with "mo-ped". I guess that experience makes me
>sympathetic to the idea of treating "moped" as a misle.

I haven't seen a moped for 30 years. Are there still places where they are
available?

ASround here a motor scooter (Vespa, Lambretta etc) was known as a bromponie,
but I haven't seen one of those for years either.

But it reminds me of the song (sung to the tune of "Big rock candy mountain")

O die gebrom van die brommers
op die vrot komkommers
die dawerende hael op die dakke
waar die akkedisse ak
end die kakelakke ..... lak
in die bobbejane bop in die berge.

--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/steve.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

Chris Malcolm

unread,
Mar 15, 2002, 5:40:41 AM3/15/02
to
Tony Cooper <tony_co...@yahoo.com> writes:

>You may argue that a moped and a scooter are different, but
>"such vehicles" include both to average person. A moped is
>really a bicycle with a motor that is usually started by
>pedaling. The scooter either kick-starts or has electric
>start.

By "average person" I take it you mean "American". I don't think world
homogenisation has quite gone that far yet.

There is very important legal distinction between mopeds and
non-mopeds which affects who is able to ride them and under what
conditions which still pertains in a number of countries. That's the
reason the devices are manufactured, to take advantage of the market
niche created by these legal differences. The crucial mechanical point
on which the legal distinctions depend is that pedal assistance is
available to the motor, and could reasonably be said to be required
under some circumstances.

The fact that no legal consequences, such as being fined, licence
revoked, etc., may follow from a US English speaker being careless
about or ignorant of the distinction doesn't legitimise the error.
--
Chris Malcolm c...@dai.ed.ac.uk +44 (0)131 650 3085
School of Artificial Intelligence, Division of Informatics
Edinburgh University, 5 Forrest Hill, Edinburgh, EH1 2QL, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/daidb/people/homes/cam/ ] DoD #205

J. J. Lodder

unread,
Mar 15, 2002, 8:22:18 AM3/15/02
to
Mark Barratt <mark.b...@chello.be> wrote:

> On Fri, 15 Mar 2002 00:52:34 +0100, nos...@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J.
> Lodder) wrote:
>
> >Mark Barratt <mark.b...@chello.be> wrote:
> >
> >> Mark Barratt
> >> "Geloof je in liefde op het eerste gezicht, of moet ik nog een keer
> >> langslopen?"
> >
> >langslopen is a good one too,
>
> I thought it was quite cute, but maybe I'm missing something. Here's
> my translation:
>
> Do you believe in love at first sight, or do I have to walk past
> again?

Correct. But
langs = past or by; lopen = to walk
lang = long; slopen = to wreck, to demolish.

> --
> Ik ben maar beginelling in het Nederlands.

beginneling


> Dus, alle verbeteringen zal welkom worden.

zijn welkom, or
zullen welkom zijn, or
zullen verwelkomd worden. (more in case of persons, too formal)

The first form to be preferred, as it is a simple statement of fact.
The whole is still somewhat translated English.

Ik ben nog maar net met het Nederlands begonnen,
dus alle verbeteringen zijn welkom.

Or more informal:
Ik ben nog maar net met het Nederlands begonnen,
dus vertel me alsjeblieft wat ik fout doe.

Zou ik bijvoorbeeld zeggen,

Jan

Bill Schnakenberg

unread,
Mar 15, 2002, 9:09:10 AM3/15/02
to
Charles Riggs wrote:

I thought I had.
http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary

Main Entry: epiph·a·ny
Pronunciation: i-'pi-f&-nE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -nies
Etymology: Middle English epiphanie, from Middle French,
from Late Latin
epiphania, from Late Greek, plural, probably alteration
of Greek
epiphaneia appearance, manifestation, from epiphainein to
manifest, from
epi- + phainein to show -- more at FANCY
[...]

3 a (1) : a usually sudden manifestation or perception of the essential
nature or meaning of something (2) : an intuitive grasp of reality through
something (as an event) usually simple and striking (3) : an illuminating
discovery b : a revealing scene or moment

--
Bill

Tony Cooper

unread,
Mar 15, 2002, 10:18:59 AM3/15/02
to
Chris Malcolm wrote:
>
> Tony Cooper <tony_co...@yahoo.com> writes:
>
> >You may argue that a moped and a scooter are different, but
> >"such vehicles" include both to average person. A moped is
> >really a bicycle with a motor that is usually started by
> >pedaling. The scooter either kick-starts or has electric
> >start.
>
> By "average person" I take it you mean "American". I don't think world
> homogenisation has quite gone that far yet.
>
The average person *is* American. The rest of you are
either above or below average.

Mark Barratt

unread,
Mar 15, 2002, 1:00:27 PM3/15/02
to
On Fri, 15 Mar 2002 10:40:41 +0000 (UTC), c...@holyrood.ed.ac.uk (Chris
Malcolm) wrote:

>The crucial mechanical point
>on which the legal distinctions depend is that pedal assistance is
>available to the motor, and could reasonably be said to be required
>under some circumstances.

I think you'll find that this definition is obsolete, and was replaced
by a simple horsepower limit some years ago, after some manufacturers
introduced models which were legally mopeds (50cc engine, plus the
pedal restriction you mention), but were capable of speeds approaching
60 mph.

Modern mopeds do not generally have pedals, I think.

--
She offered her honour; he honoured her offer;
then all night long it was honour and offer.

Mark Barratt

unread,
Mar 15, 2002, 1:24:25 PM3/15/02
to
On Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:22:18 +0100, nos...@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J.
Lodder) wrote:

<snip very welcome comments on my Dutch sig>

(Dutch is off-topic, of course, so I'll try to keep this brief)

Thanks, Jan. I've amended the sig (which is intended for use on
Dutch-language newsgroups) to what you see below.

I wonder about the truth of the first line, though. I've been studying
the language sporadically for well over a year, now. Doesn't it say
that I've just begun (I'm a bit puzzled about "net", to be honest)?

--

Charles Riggs

unread,
Mar 16, 2002, 5:31:12 AM3/16/02
to
On Fri, 15 Mar 2002 09:09:10 -0500, Bill Schnakenberg
<will...@frontiernet.net> wrote:

>Charles Riggs wrote:

>> How soon, though, will you learn the meaning of epiphany?
>
>I thought I had.
>http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary

>3 a (1) : a usually sudden manifestation or perception of the essential


>nature or meaning of something (2) : an intuitive grasp of reality through
>something (as an event) usually simple and striking (3) : an illuminating
>discovery b : a revealing scene or moment

It is an unusual word. To me it a far more monumental event that what
is described above. That was evidently how Joyce saw it, if I'm
reading Ulysses right; that's the only place I remember seeing the
word in print, outside of dictionaries.

Charles Riggs

J. J. Lodder

unread,
Mar 16, 2002, 7:06:38 AM3/16/02
to
Mark Barratt <mark.b...@chello.be> wrote:

> On Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:22:18 +0100, nos...@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J.
> Lodder) wrote:
>
> <snip very welcome comments on my Dutch sig>
>
> (Dutch is off-topic, of course, so I'll try to keep this brief)
>
> Thanks, Jan. I've amended the sig (which is intended for use on
> Dutch-language newsgroups) to what you see below.
>
> I wonder about the truth of the first line, though. I've been studying
> the language sporadically for well over a year, now. Doesn't it say
> that I've just begun (I'm a bit puzzled about "net", to be honest)?

Literally yes. It doesn't have to be taken too literally.

> --
> Ik ben nog maar net met het Nederlands begonnen,
> dus alle verbeteringen zijn welkom.

You might say instead, and shorter:
Ik ben Nederlands aan het leren en hoor het graag als ik wat fout doe.
Ik ben Nederlands aan het leren en hoor graag wat ik nog fout doe.

For newsgroup use you might add that E-mail comment is preferred
to avoid annoying others.

It may seem strange in this forum,
but generally the Dutch consider it very much against netiquette
to comment on other peoples spelling or grammar on usenet,
unless really necessary to avoid misunderstandings.

See the FAQ for nl.filosofie for example
for some explanation.

Jan

J. J. Lodder

unread,
Mar 16, 2002, 7:06:40 AM3/16/02
to
Trevor Coultart <coultart.r...@mac.com> wrote:

Like Rick in Casablanca you might say you were misinformed,

Jan

Peter P.

unread,
Mar 16, 2002, 3:53:05 PM3/16/02
to

"Mark Barratt" <mark.b...@chello.be> wrote in message
news:nad49u8q1b588rame...@4ax.com...

> On Fri, 15 Mar 2002 10:40:41 +0000 (UTC), c...@holyrood.ed.ac.uk (Chris
> Malcolm) wrote:
>
> >The crucial mechanical point
> >on which the legal distinctions depend is that pedal assistance is
> >available to the motor, and could reasonably be said to be required
> >under some circumstances.
>
> I think you'll find that this definition is obsolete, and was replaced
> by a simple horsepower limit some years ago, after some manufacturers
> introduced models which were legally mopeds (50cc engine, plus the
> pedal restriction you mention), but were capable of speeds approaching
> 60 mph.
>
> Modern mopeds do not generally have pedals, I think.
>
I seem to recall that in one Continental (Europe) country-France I suspect-
there was a law that allowed one to ride a "moped"without a licence
providing that the bike had pedals but did not specify that the pedals could
propel the machine. One manufacturer is reputed to have produced a machine
that had no pedals mounted on the frame but provided a neat pair of model
pedals in the tool bag beneath the seat.

Peter P.> --

Mark Barratt

unread,
Mar 16, 2002, 6:03:17 PM3/16/02
to
On Sat, 16 Mar 2002 20:53:05 GMT, "Peter P." <rin...@bluyonder.co.uk>
wrote:

>I seem to recall that in one Continental (Europe) country-France I suspect-
>there was a law that allowed one to ride a "moped"without a licence
>providing that the bike had pedals but did not specify that the pedals could
>propel the machine. One manufacturer is reputed to have produced a machine
>that had no pedals mounted on the frame but provided a neat pair of model
>pedals in the tool bag beneath the seat.

My immediate response to that is "pull the other one", but it does
remind me of the one about the young guy who gets talking with a girl
in a bar, buys her several drinks, and seems to be getting somewhere.
As the evening draws to a close, he leans close to her and whispers
"Why don't we go back to your place?". She replies, with a wistful
look, "We could, but I'm on my menstrual cycle". "That's no problem!"
replies our enterprising hero, "I'll follow you on my Honda 50!"

Sorry.

Maria Conlon

unread,
Mar 17, 2002, 12:09:23 AM3/17/02
to

Mark Barratt wrote


[bad joke snipped]

>Sorry.

You should be, Mark. Couldn't you be reminded of a funnier joke next
time?

;-)

Maria

Mark Barratt

unread,
Mar 17, 2002, 11:09:16 PM3/17/02
to

Okay. It's the last class of the day, and the class have finished the
work that the teacher had planned with ten minutes remaining. As an
incentive, she offers the first two students who can answer history
questions the chance to leave early. The first question is "who said:
'all I can offer is blood, sweat, toil and tears'?". Johnny knows the
answer and leaps to his feet. But the girl in front of him knows it
too, and is the one called upon by the teacher to say "Winston
Churchill".

The second question is "who said 'The die is cast?'". Again Johnny
knows the answer, and is on his feet in a flash, but again one of the
girls beats him to it, and correctly answers "Julius Caeser".
Dejected, Johnny resumes his seat, muttering (a little too loudly), "I
wish those bitches had kept their mouths shut". Shocked, the teacher
turns to the class and demands "Who said that?" Johnny leaps
immediately to his feet and says "Bill Clinton! Can I go home now?"

Any better?

Reinhold (Rey) Aman

unread,
Mar 18, 2002, 12:10:53 AM3/18/02
to
Mark Barratt wrote:

> On Sun, 17 Mar 2002 00:09:23 -0500, "Maria Conlon" wrote:

[...]

> > Couldn't you be reminded of a funnier joke next time?

> Okay. It's the last class of the day, [...]

> Any better?

No, non, nein, neen! Whoever told you that joke did a horrible job of
chopping up and distorting a longer and funnier version called "The
Foreign Student" or similar.

--
Reinhold (Rey) Aman

J. J. Lodder

unread,
Mar 18, 2002, 5:23:33 AM3/18/02
to
Maria Conlon <mcon...@sprynet.com> wrote:

One of the girls Mick Jagger in vain tries to get satisfaction from says
to get rid of him:
'I'm on a losing streak.'

Took a long time before I stumbled across the meaning
in some other context.

Jan

Maria Conlon

unread,
Mar 19, 2002, 6:11:30 AM3/19/02
to

Mark Barratt wrote

>Maria Conlon wrote:
>>Mark Barratt wrote
>>
>>[bad joke snipped]

>>>Sorry.

>>You should be, Mark. Couldn't you be reminded of a funnier joke
next
>>time?

>Okay.

[Another joke snipped, not quite as bad as the first, but still
bad.]

>Any better?

Marginally, but I've heard it before so it wasn't funny. Care to try
again? I like puns if they're *really* bad.

Maria (Tootsie)

Mark Barratt

unread,
Mar 19, 2002, 8:26:15 AM3/19/02
to
On Tue, 19 Mar 2002 06:11:30 -0500, "Maria Conlon"
<mcon...@sprynet.com> wrote:

>Care to try
>again? I like puns if they're *really* bad.

OK, my last attempt.

Johnny puts his hand up and says "Miss, I need to go pee!". "Now,
Johnny", says the teacher, "you know we're supposed to use grown-up
words in class. The grown-up word is 'urinate'. Let me hear you use
the word 'urinate' in a sentence, and you can go." Johnny, who is
concentrating on holding has bladder, can only manage "Uh, urinate...
but if you had bigger tits you'd be a 10."

bill.howard

unread,
Mar 22, 2002, 2:28:50 AM3/22/02
to

"Maria Conlon" <mcon...@sprynet.com> wrote in message
news:a7769i$ieu2h$1...@ID-113669.news.dfncis.de...
>
[conversation snipped]

> I like puns if they're *really* bad.
>

Man walks into a bar, asks for a double entendre.
So the barmaid gives him one.


Michael Hamm

unread,
Sep 14, 2004, 11:37:20 AM9/14/04
to
Mark Barratt <mark.b...@chello.be> wrote, in part:
> Presumably you would want to eliminate non-homophonous homonyms like
> "bow" and "lead", so I also wonder about "sundry". Presumably
> "sun-dry" is an actual word (although I would not personally omit the
> hyphen).

Once, in an Internet-based chat room, someone asked me what my Web pages
were about. I replied "Sundries." It took him a while to realize I was
not referring to tomatoes.

Michael Hamm
AM, Math, Wash. U. St. Louis
msh...@math.wustl.edu Standard disclaimers:
http://math.wustl.edu/~msh210/ ... legal.html

Mark Barratt

unread,
Sep 14, 2004, 1:54:41 PM9/14/04
to
Michael Hamm wrote:
> Mark Barratt <mark.b...@chello.be> wrote, in part:
> > Presumably you would want to eliminate non-homophonous homonyms like
> > "bow" and "lead", so I also wonder about "sundry". Presumably
> > "sun-dry" is an actual word (although I would not personally omit the
> > hyphen).
>
> Once, in an Internet-based chat room, someone asked me what my Web pages
> were about. I replied "Sundries." It took him a while to realize I was
> not referring to tomatoes.

I glanced at this and thought "No, I've never written anything like
that" - and then I looked a little closer. 14th March 2002, when I
was still in Belgium. You're really interested in this "misle"
thing, aren't you?

--
Regards,
Mark Barratt
(Now in Hungary)

Reply all
Reply to author
Forward
0 new messages