Merriam-Webster vs. American Heritage
Andy Klein
I'm not sure if this is the place for this or not, but here
goes...
I'm a senior in high school this year so I'll be taking off for
college in a year. I figure I'll need to buy myself a collegiate
dictionary to take along with me. I'm a little unsure of which
to buy. I know that both Merriam-Webster and American Heritage
both came out with new collegiate editions recently. They both
cost about $20. So my question is:
Do college professors typically prefer the American Heritage
3rd Collegiate or the Merriam-Webster 10th Collegiate? or is it
a toss up?
Thanks,
Andy Klein
Avon Lake, OH
Timothy C. May
: Do college professors typically prefer the American Heritage
: 3rd Collegiate or the Merriam-Webster 10th Collegiate? or is it
: a toss up?
:
You'll be in fine shape with either, or with the Random House
Unabridged, for that matter. Merely _having_ a dictionary larger than
a paperback novel will put you in the top 1% of college students, so I
don't think you need to worry about which dictionary is preferred by
professors. In fact, I can't imagine a situation in which they could
even _tell_ which you were using, as the prescriptivist/descriptivist
debate only matters for a handful of words.
Good luck!
By the way, a much more important issue is what kind of computer and
word processor you'll get, as this is where you'll spend most of your
writing time.
-Tim May
--
..........................................................................
Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tc...@netcom.com | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
408-688-5409 | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
W.A.S.T.E.: Aptos, CA | black markets, collapse of governments.
Higher Power: 2^756839 | Public Key: PGP and MailSafe available.
Note: I put time and money into writing this posting. I hope you enjoy it.
Marilyn Gelman
newsgroup. I've overheard suprising advice given at bookstores and such...it
would be nice to see a discussion here.
If I wanted to purchase the standard reference books used by a particular
school, I think I would call the school's English department and ask for
recommendations (style guide, dictionary, thesaurus).
These are my experiences: Since I cannot have the OED two volume set,
circa WWII, or the full OED, I have been working with:
the Random House big guy - too big to carry from room to room and use
on the spur of the moment,
the American Heritage Dictionary, Third Edition - about $30 and a joy...
even when I've looked up a word in a different book, I look up the same word
there just for fun. Although the AHD is too big to hold on my lap,
doesn't fit on the bookshelves near my typewriter or PC, and weighs too much
for me to grab with one hand, I manage to keep the book close to me, and
an ancient $3.95 hardcover, romance paperback novel sized, AHD, published
by Dell Publishing Co (bearing a sticker, "EVERBIND BOOKS."
To me, a dictionary is a technical manual. The book must be user-friendly.
I bought the Third College Edition of "Webster's New Word Dictionary" because
I liked the column width and fonts. But the darn thing is so slippery that it
falls out of my hands. I removed the dust jacket to find it is the cover of
the book that causes the problem. The book has less value to me. I almost
returned it for that reason.
Webster's Dictionary of Synonyms and Roget's Thesaurus (4th! edition, Chapman)
are tops in my opinion. Both fit on my little bookshelf, or on stacks of papers
on my desk, or under my chair. I can grab each with one hand - neither book
is slippery, even with dust jackets. The books are well balanced - I can
hold each open in the palm of one hand and flip pages or write with the other
hand. The paper feels good - the thesaurus paper is cool and delicate; the
"Synonyms" paper has a strong texture that makes it feel like a street fighter.
I enjoy online dictionaries...but, boy, I really love to get my hands on a good
book! Marilyn Gelman
Robert L. McMillin
dictionaries and other reference books, gel...@sun490.fdu.edu (Marilyn
Gelman) said:
> I think it is terrific that someone has asked about dictionaries in this
> newsgroup. I've overheard suprising advice given at bookstores and such...it
> would be nice to see a discussion here.
> If I wanted to purchase the standard reference books used by a particular
> school, I think I would call the school's English department and ask for
> recommendations (style guide, dictionary, thesaurus).
> These are my experiences: Since I cannot have the OED two volume set,
> circa WWII, or the full OED, I have been working with:
> the Random House big guy - too big to carry from room to room and use
> on the spur of the moment,
I have seen the RH dictionary, but haven't really had the opportunity to
peruse its pages thoroughly. As I recall, the price on this one ranges
from $60 to around $100, depending on the store. I seem to recall a
price of about $65 at the Super Crown in Torrance, CA (about 20 miles SW
of downtown Los Angeles).
In any case, if the Random House Webster's is halfway decent, it should
surely surpass the lowly and very abridged Dorset & Baber {Webster's New
Universal Unabridged Dictionary}. I got this monster about four years
ago as a Christmas or birthday present just after they first appeared in
the B. Dalton stores. Let me tell you: the paper is thin and acidic.
The pages have yellowed substantially in the relatively short time I've
owned mine. Further, it doesn't have all the fun, four-letter
obscenities that we all wondered about as children. I wanted it for its
comprehensiveness. It looks like all I got was a large, heavy
dictionary -- the spine is nearly five inches wide, making it quite
unsuitable for workaday use.
So, for that reason, I purchased Prentice-Hall's recently published
{Webster's New World Dictionary} (Third College Edition). This
workhorse sees me through the day, every day. The paper has a clean,
smooth feel to it, and best of all, fits well in my hand. This
dictionary also sports all the naughty words (but of course!), endearing
it to me further.
> To me, a dictionary is a technical manual. The book must be
> user-friendly. I bought the Third College Edition of "Webster's New
> Word Dictionary" because I liked the column width and fonts. But the
> darn thing is so slippery that it falls out of my hands. I removed
> the dust jacket to find it is the cover of the book that causes the
> problem. The book has less value to me. I almost returned it for
> that reason.
Interesting. English is a slippery tongue, but should its "user's
manual" be so? In any case, I don't have these problems; perhaps I have
more strength in my hands than you.
> Webster's Dictionary of Synonyms and Roget's Thesaurus (4th! edition,
> Chapman) are tops in my opinion.
I also have the Roget's 4th, but have never had call for the Dictionary
of Synonyms. How is it better, different, or both than Roget's?
Additional reference works: I have the {Bartletts' Familiar Quotations}
15th (!) edition. I saw the 16th edition, and was summarily
unimpressed. It's got some trendy quotes, which I think should be
removed in the next edition or two; but overall, the editors inserted
them at the expense of some very unfamilar and older quotes.
Finally come my foreign language dictionaries: the Oxford/Duden English/
German dictionary, and Cassell's Latin/English. In truth, I haven't
much call for either (except recently when I spent a month in Germany on
business), but I do like to keep the Latin around when snooping around
the back alleys of English. You never know where a Latin root will lead
you...
In any case, the one book I would most like to have that I have yet to
see on any bookstore shelves is a good rhyming dictionary. My
girlfriend has a small one, but it's nowhere near comprehensive.
Suggestions?
--
Robert L. McMillin | Surf City Software | r...@helen.surfcty.com | Dude!
Translations from the Clintonese available on request.
Timothy C. May
"alt.usage.english.dictionaries.reviews," so this group looks to be
the best alternative for briefly reviewing some dictionaries.
For some reason, I keep buying new ones. My latest acquisition,
described in this very group, is the Oxford English Dictionary, New
Edition (or 2nd, if you prefer), published in 1989 and issued in a
photographically reduced version in 1991. The 2400 pages each have 9
of the original pages, for a total of over 21,000 pages! A
hemispherical magnifying lens is also included.
When the urge to find the meaning of "defensatrice" strikes you in the
middle of the night, this is the dictionary to have! Of more use,
perhaps, is the extensive set of example usages given for most words,
drawn from various writings over the centuries.
The cost is between $250 and $325. The paperback version, with 36
pages per page, will include a jeweller's loupe, I hear.
I also have the three main unabridged dictionaries, the
Merriam-Webster "Third New International" ($60-$100), the Random House
"Dictionary of the English Language, Unabridged, 2nd Edition"
($50-$90), and the "American Heritage Dictionary of the English
Language, 3rd Edition" ($30-$40).
I won't give word counts, numbers of pages, etc. Folks should look at
each one and choose the one that best fits their needs. For some, the
completeness is prime (the OED wins hands down). For others,
portability is paramount (the AHD wins, the RH and M-W lose, and the
OED is too big to move off a table, practically speaking).
The one thing I strongly recommend is to skip the abridged
dictionaries. While they may have most of the words an educated person
is likely to use, frustrations will arise as obscure words are not
found. And the abridged dictionaries skimp on examples and secondary
usages.
The best bet, I think, is a reasonably complete unabridged dictionary
that is also portable enough to actually be at hand when the reader or
writer needs it. The American Heritage wins hands down.
It also has a very attractive and easy to read typeface, many useful
photographs and diagrams in the margins (a trademark, practically, of
the American Heritage line), an excellent section on etymology and the
Indo-European roots of English, and a very reasonable price.
(For the college-bound student, Andy, who started this thread, this is
the dictionary I would recommend. I paid $32 for mine. And the
"College Edition" is smaller, slightly less readable, and not quite as
complete, for about half this. Since a nice dictionary can be so much
fun to browse, and hence be an educational--and SAT
score-enhancing--experience, I would urge college-bound students to
get the unabridged version and savor its excellence.)
With the American Heritage, I seldom turn to either my Merriam-Webster
Third or my Random House Unabridged. And now that I have my OED open
on a tilt stand next to my computer, I expect to waste, er, spend even
more time browsing and exploring.
By the way, there are lots of deals of used copies of the Oxford
English Dictionary, 1st Edition, in the photoreduced version. Usually
these go for between $80 and $120. I don't feel it's very useful,
except for exploration purposes, because the senses given for so many
of the words are outdated and new sense are missing altogether. The
"Supplements" partly fixed this problem, but they add both to the cost
and to the hassle of looking up a word (a two-step process).
This is a welcome thread. I'd like to hear other reactions to these
(and other) great dictionaries.
David Sewell
>
> Do college professors typically prefer the American Heritage
>3rd Collegiate or the Merriam-Webster 10th Collegiate? or is it
>a toss up?
College professors, even those in English departments, probably won't
care. (Most of them are still using their old dog-eared dictionaries
they bought when they were in college, anyway.) However, if you
really want to be on the side of the angels, American university
presses generally advise authors and editors to use the 9th edition of
Webster's New Collegiate (or its great-grandaddy, the unabridged Third
International). Now that the 10th Collegiate is out, that should
become the standard.
--
David Sewell "Where the earth is dry, the
ds...@lion.ccit.arizona.edu soul is wisest and best."
dse...@violet.ccit.arizona.edu --Heraclitus
Daniel Fain
>In any case, if the Random House Webster's is halfway decent, it should
>surely surpass the lowly and very abridged Dorset & Baber {Webster's New
>Universal Unabridged Dictionary}. I got this monster about four years
>ago as a Christmas or birthday present just after they first appeared in
>the B. Dalton stores. Let me tell you: the paper is thin and acidic.
>The pages have yellowed substantially in the relatively short time I've
>owned mine. Further, it doesn't have all the fun, four-letter
>obscenities that we all wondered about as children. I wanted it for its
Speaking of four-letter obscenities, I remember a presentation my
middle school teacher did on censorship which mentioned that American
Heritage had removed "ball [vt]" in response to criticism by parents'
groups. I may remember this all wrong, in which case I am sure flames
will fly.
I think Webster's Collegiate dictionary comes in two hardcover
versions: one which has a jacket, and one without. The one without
has a very nice cover, and includes both "fuck" and "Fourier
transform."
Dan Fain
Computation and Neural Systems
Caltech
Dan Tilque
>Andy Klein (af...@yfn.ysu.edu) wrote:
>
>: Do college professors typically prefer the American Heritage
>: 3rd Collegiate or the Merriam-Webster 10th Collegiate? or is it
>: a toss up?
>
>You'll be in fine shape with either, or with the Random House
>Unabridged, for that matter.
I agree that both M-W10C and AHD are good dictionaries, and while I'm
not disparaging RHD, it does cost around $65-70. Probably more than
your typical college student is likely to budget. Think of the pizzas
you can buy with the difference.
>Merely _having_ a dictionary larger than
>a paperback novel will put you in the top 1% of college students, so I
>don't think you need to worry about which dictionary is preferred by
>professors.
I once had an English instructor who didn't like the fact that I used
the word "tout". He had this very small book that had a word list in it
(but no definitions) and since "tout" wasn't in that he thought it
wasn't a word. I'll be hanged if I know how this guy ever got an
advanced degree.
>In fact, I can't imagine a situation in which they could
>even _tell_ which you were using, as the prescriptivist/descriptivist
>debate only matters for a handful of words.
Both have usage notes for most of the disputed cases. M-W is more
liberal than AHD, in general.
---
Dan Tilque -- da...@techbook.com
If there was anything that depressed him more than his own cynicism, it
was that quite often it still wasn't as cynical as real life.
-- Terry Pratchett, Guards! Guards!
Dan Tilque
>"alt.usage.english.dictionaries.reviews," so this group looks to be
>the best alternative for briefly reviewing some dictionaries.
I posted a short review of M-W 10th Collegiate a while back, so I guess
there's precedence.
>The paperback version [of the OED], with 36
>pages per page, will include a jeweller's loupe, I hear.
This is the first time I've heard of a pb edition. Kind of boggles the
mind. Also the loupe is in line with my prediction that by the 5th
edition, the compact OED will come with a scanning electron microscope.
>
>I also have the three main unabridged dictionaries, the
>Merriam-Webster "Third New International" ($60-$100), the Random House
>"Dictionary of the English Language, Unabridged, 2nd Edition"
>($50-$90), and the "American Heritage Dictionary of the English
>Language, 3rd Edition" ($30-$40).
The AHD is not an unabridged dictionary. Unabridged is a technical term
meaning that the dictionary has 400,000 entries or more. Actually, RHD
isn't quite this large either, but it's close.
If you're a real dictionary fiend who like *lots* of words the obscurer
the better, also get Webster's Second and an old (pre-1965 or so) Funk
and Wagnall's. These can be found in used book stores, although F&W is
hard to find.
>
>The one thing I strongly recommend is to skip the abridged
>dictionaries. While they may have most of the words an educated person
>is likely to use, frustrations will arise as obscure words are not
>found. And the abridged dictionaries skimp on examples and secondary
>usages.
Your average person does not really need an unabridged. Unless they're
reading Gene Wolfe or Stephen Donaldson or someone like that.
But I can't fault your recommendation the the new AHD. It is an
excellent dictionary. Personally, I'm partial to M-W, but then I like
large dictionaries. Except for the OED, M-W makes the largest
dictionaries in their respective classes.
Dan Tilque
>
>Speaking of four-letter obscenities, I remember a presentation my
>middle school teacher did on censorship which mentioned that American
>Heritage had removed "ball [vt]" in response to criticism by parents'
>groups. I may remember this all wrong, in which case I am sure flames
>will fly.
Not a flame, but a correction. You're probably getting this mixed up
with the fact that AHD was the first dictionary to publish words like
"fuck". "shit", etc. This created a huge uproar when it came out in
1969.
This is a bit ironic in light of the fact that AHD was created in
response to the big uproar over the permissiveness of Webster's Third.
I imagine there were people who refused to have Web3 in their house
because it didn't label "ain't" as substandard, and wouldn't have AHD
because it had obscenities. Of course, all the other general purpose
dictionaries then added the obscenities, so I imagine those people only
have children's dictionaries in their houses.
>
>I think Webster's Collegiate dictionary comes in two hardcover
>versions: one which has a jacket, and one without. The one without
>has a very nice cover, and includes both "fuck" and "Fourier
>transform."
There is a Webster's Collegiate Dictionary published by Merriam-Webster
that is different from the numbered Collegiate (the latest of which is
the 10th and just came out this year). I do not have a copy because
it's smaller than the numbered ones. It's possible that this one does
not have the obscenities. I'll check it out.