among the rest
Tacia
What follows is a test question from a book of comprehension tests
published in Taiwan in 2005.
---------
In our class, 10 students didn't pass the test in English. I am among
the rest.
(A) I didn't pass that test.
(B) I passed that test.
(C) I didn't take part in the test.
(D) In fact, I am not a student. I am their teacher.
---------
The given answer is (A). The Taiwanese author equates /among the rest/
with /one of them/, thus "one of the students who didn't pass the
test."
A Taiwanese teacher thinks that "among the rest = one of them" is
perhaps an old usage of English, but I tend to think that it is a
mistake.
What are your verdicts?
All the best,
Pablo
I think that's nonsense.
--
Pablo
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
wrote:
>Ladies and Gentlemen,
>
>What follows is a test question from a book of comprehension tests
>published in Taiwan in 2005.
>
>---------
>In our class, 10 students didn't pass the test in English. I am among
>the rest.
>(A) I didn't pass that test.
>(B) I passed that test.
>(C) I didn't take part in the test.
>(D) In fact, I am not a student. I am their teacher.
>---------
>
>The given answer is (A). The Taiwanese author equates /among the rest/
>with /one of them/, thus "one of the students who didn't pass the
>test."
>
To me the correct answer is (B). You are one of the students who did
take part in the test and you did pass.
>A Taiwanese teacher thinks that "among the rest = one of them" is
>perhaps an old usage of English, but I tend to think that it is a
>mistake.
>
"The rest" means "the others": the ones who have not been specifically
mentioned. In this case it means the other students.
If there are 50 students in a class and someones says "10 students
didn't pass the test" then "the rest" means the other 40.
If you say "There are 50 students in the class, 3 of them didn't take
the test, 10 didn't pass and I am among the rest" then "I am among the
rest" means you are one of the 37 students who did pass.
>What are your verdicts?
>
>
>All the best,
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
<ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
>If there are 50 students in a class and someones says "10 students
...someone...
Don Phillipson
news:3338e201-fe5c-45ec...@k17g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
The test question is basically flawed because it invites confusion between
two senses of the verb "pass:"
#1 = undergo (some test) and be judged successful.
#2 = simply to undergo (cf. French passer un examen. English probably
adopted from French these words "pass" and "test." Earlier in history
students were not "tested" but "examined" in Latin, arithmetic, etc.
Since the 19th century schools used examine = major (e.g. final
examination of each term) and test = minor (e.g. weekly tests of progress.)
Secondly, so far as vernacular English is concerned, for (A)
native English speakers usually say "I failed that test," not
"I didn't pass that test." (Only ultramodern politically
correct communities shun the word "fail" for reasons of
sympathetic magic.) Similarly for (C), when speaking of
a test for which the result is Pass or Fail, the usual form is
"I didn't take that test," not "I didn't take part in the test."
(The second sentence might be used in other contexts,
especially those with a different result than Pass/Fail.)
You are right that " students didn't pass the test . . . I am among
the rest" is non-colloquial. Native English speakers would usually
say "students didn't pass the test in English. I did."
Together these flaws suggest the book was prepared by people
with an imperfect command of modern English.
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)
Mark Brader
> In our class, 10 students didn't pass the test in English. I am among
> the rest.
>
> (A) I didn't pass that test.
> (B) I passed that test.
> (C) I didn't take part in the test.
> (D) In fact, I am not a student. I am their teacher.
It's a very unlikely sentence on grounds of style, but B is clearly the
answer.
(In a more normal style, if you're going to classify people into two
groups and refer to both groups, you don't identify the groups by
describing one of them in terms of a negative. In effect this describes
the second group by means of a double negative -- "the rest" are the
people for which it's NOT true that they did NOT pass the test. This
can be confusing and I guess that's what confused the teacher.)
--
Mark Brader "Things are getting too standard around here.
Toronto Time to innovate!"
m...@vex.net -- Ian Darwin and David Keldsen
My text in this article is in the public domain.
Steve Hayes
The correct answer is "None of the above", though it could be either B or C.
It means "I did not fail the terst" -- either by passing it, or by not taking
it.
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
Mark Brader
> >---------
> >In our class, 10 students didn't pass the test in English. I am among
> >the rest.
> >(A) I didn't pass that test.
> >(B) I passed that test.
> >(C) I didn't take part in the test.
> >(D) In fact, I am not a student. I am their teacher.
> >---------
Steve Hayes writes (copyedited):
> The correct answer is "None of the above", though it could be either
> B or C.
Wrong. It's B.
> It means "I did not fail the test" -- either by passing it, or by not
> taking it.
Wrong. It means "I am not one of the 10 who didn't pass the test" --
in other words, I did pass it.
--
Mark Brader | "...people continue to wish that C were something it is not,
Toronto | not realizing that if C were what they thought they wanted
m...@vex.net | it to be, it would never have succeeded and they wouldn't
| be using it in the first place." -- Steve Summit
Steve Hayes
>"Tacia" asks about:
>> >---------
>> >In our class, 10 students didn't pass the test in English. I am among
>> >the rest.
>> >(A) I didn't pass that test.
>> >(B) I passed that test.
>> >(C) I didn't take part in the test.
>> >(D) In fact, I am not a student. I am their teacher.
>> >---------
>
>Steve Hayes writes (copyedited):
>> The correct answer is "None of the above", though it could be either
>> B or C.
>
>Wrong. It's B.
>
>> It means "I did not fail the test" -- either by passing it, or by not
>> taking it.
>
>Wrong. It means "I am not one of the 10 who didn't pass the test" --
>in other words, I did pass it.
I disagree. It is ambiguous.
Case 1.
"The rest" means those members of the class who did not fail the test.
Assuming that there is a class of 100 members.
10 fail the test.
87 pass the test
3 did not take the test.
If I am not among the 10, but among "the rest", then I am among the 90,
because "the rest" means those members of the class who did not fail the test.
Case 2.
7 fail the test
3 did not pass because they did not take the test
90 passed the test.
90 is "the rest", therefore I passed the test.
But the natural meaning of "didn't pass" is that they failed.
So I think Case 1 is more likely, but the ambiguity remains.
Peter Moylan
Therefore 13 did not pass the test.
>
> If I am not among the 10, but among "the rest", then I am among the 90,
> because "the rest" means those members of the class who did not fail the test.
That's not what it said. "The rest" clearly means all members of the
class, minus those who did not pass the test.
>
> Case 2.
>
> 7 fail the test
> 3 did not pass because they did not take the test
> 90 passed the test.
>
> 90 is "the rest", therefore I passed the test.
>
> But the natural meaning of "didn't pass" is that they failed.
Either by taking the test and failing, or failing to take the test
(which normally also counts as a fail).
> So I think Case 1 is more likely, but the ambiguity remains.
Case 1 doesn't work unless you change the original wording, from "didn't
pass" to "took the test and failed". That leaves case 2 as the only
possible interpretation.
--
Peter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org
For an e-mail address, see my web page.
Donna Richoux
> On Wed, 19 May 2010 09:05:12 -0700 (PDT), Tacia <outof...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >---------
> >In our class, 10 students didn't pass the test in English. I am among
> >the rest.
> >(A) I didn't pass that test.
> >(B) I passed that test.
> >(C) I didn't take part in the test.
> >(D) In fact, I am not a student. I am their teacher.
> >---------
> >
> >The given answer is (A). The Taiwanese author equates /among the rest/
> >with /one of them/, thus "one of the students who didn't pass the
> >test."
> >
> >A Taiwanese teacher thinks that "among the rest = one of them" is
> >perhaps an old usage of English, but I tend to think that it is a
> >mistake.
> >
> >What are your verdicts?
>
> The correct answer is "None of the above", though it could be either B or C.
>
> It means "I did not fail the terst" -- either by passing it, or by not taking
> it.
If anyone didn't take the test at all, they couldn't have passed it.
They must be within the group of 10 who "didn't pass the test." One way
to fail to pass a test is to fail to take it.
The only way to negate "didn't pass the test" is "did pass the test." I
vote for B.
The real lesson here is that we are not likely to say "the rest" in a
negative situation like that. We'd say "among the ones who did" or some
such.
--
Best -- Donna Richoux