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The Whipping of the Quaker Women
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Mack A. Damia
Sep 1, 2021, 5:27:12 PM9/1/21
to
The Whipping of the Quaker Women
In 1662 three young Quaker women from England came to Dover (New
Hampshire). True to their faith, they preached against professional
ministers, restrictions on individual conscience, and the established
customs of the church-ruled settlement. They openly argued with
Dover's powerful Congregational minister John Reyner. For six weeks
the Quaker women held meetings and services at various dwellings
around Dover. Finally, one of the elders of the First Church, Hatevil
Nutter, had had enough. A petition by the inhabitants of Dover was
presented "humbly craving relief against the spreading & the wicked
errors of the Quakers among them". Captain Richard Walderne (Waldron),
crown magistrate, issued the following order: "To the constables of
Dover, Hampton, Salisbury, Newbury, Rowley, Ipswich, Wenham, Linn,
Boston, Roxbury, Dedham, and until these vagabond Quakers are carried
out of this jurisdiction, you, and every one of you are required in
the name of the King's Majesty's name, to take these vagabond Quakers,
Ann Coleman, Mary Tompkins, and Alice Ambrose, and make them fast to
the cart's tail, and driving the cart through your several towns, to
whip their naked backs, not exceeding ten stripes apiece on each of
them, in each town; and so to convey them from constable to constable,
till they are out of this jurisdiction". Walderne's punishment was
severe, calling for whippings in at least eleven towns, and requiring
travel over eighty miles in bitterly cold weather.
On a frigid winter day, constables John and Thomas Roberts of Dover
seized the three women. George Bishop recorded the follow account of
events. "Deputy Waldron caused these women to be stripped naked from
the middle upwards, and tied to a cart, and after awhile cruelly
whipped them, whilst the priest stood and looked and laughed at it."
Sewall's History of the Quakers continues " The women thus being
whipped at Dover, were carried to Hampton and there delivered to the
constable...The constable the next morning would have whipped them
before day, but they refused , saying they were not ashamed of their
sufferings. Then he would have whipped them with their clothes on,
when he had tied them to the cart. But they said, 'set us free, or do
according to thine order. He then spoke to a woman to take off their
clothes. But she said she would not for all the world. Why, said he,
then I'll do it myself. So he stripped them, and then stood trembling
whip in hand, and so he did the execution. Then he carried them to
Salisbury through the dirt and the snow half the leg deep; and here
they were whipped again. Indeed their bodies were so torn, that if
Providence had not watched over them, they might have been in danger
of their lives." In Salisbury, Sergeant Major Robert Pike stopped the
persecution of the Quaker women. Dr. Walter Barefoot, who was one of
the company that went with the constable, dressed their wounds and
brought them back to the Piscataqua, setting them up on the Maine side
of the river at the home of Major Nicholas Shapleigh of Kittery.
Eventually the Quaker women returned to Dover, and established a
church. In time, over a third of Dover's citizens became Quaker.
John Greenleaf Whittier immortalized the suffering of the Quaker women
in the following poem.
How The Women Went from Dover
The tossing spray of Cocheco's fall
Hardened to ice on its rocky wall,
As through Dover town in the chill, gray dawn,
Three women passed, at the cart-tail drawn !
Bared to the waist, for the north wind's grip
And keener sting of the constable's whip,
The blood that followed each hissing blow
Froze as it sprinkled the winter snow.
Priest and ruler, boy and maid
Followed the dismal cavalcade ;
And from door and window, open thrown,
Looked and wondered gaffer and crone.
"God is our witness," the victims cried,
"We suffer for Him who for all men died ;
The wrong ye do has been done before,
We bear the stripes that the Master bore !
"And thou, O Richard Waldron, for whom
We hear the feet of a coming doom,
On thy cruel heart and thy hand of wrong
Vengeance is sure, though it tarry long.
"In the light of the Lord, a flame we see
Climb and kindle a proud roof-tree ;
And beneath it an old man lying dead,
With stains of blood on his hoary head."
"Smite, Goodman Hate - Evil!-harder still !"
The magistrate cried, "lay on with a will !
Drive out of their bodies the Father of Lies,
Who through them preaches and prophesies !"
So into the forest they held their way,
By winding river and frost-rimmed bay,
Over wind-swept hills that felt the beat
Of the winter sea at their icy feet.
The Indian hunter, searching his traps,
Peered stealthily through the forest gaps ;
And the outlying settler shook his head,
"They're witches going to jail," he said.
At last a meeting-house came in view ;
A blast on his horn the constable blew ;
And the boys of Hampton cried up and down
"The Quakers have come !" to the wondering town.
From barn and woodpile the goodman came;
The goodwife quitted her quilting frame,
With her child at her breast ; and, hobbling slow,
The grandam followed to see the show.
Once more the torturing whip was swung,
Once more keen lashes the bare flesh stung.
"Oh, spare ! they are bleeding !" a little maid cried,
And covered her face the sight to hide.
A murmur ran round the crowd : "Good folks,"
Quoth the constable, busy counting the strokes,
"No pity to wretches like these is due,
They have beaten the gospel black and blue !"
Then a pallid woman, in wild-eyed fear,
With her wooden noggin of milk drew near.
"Drink, poor hearts !" a rude hand smote
Her draught away from a parching throat.
"Take heed," one whispered, "they'll take your cow
For fines, as they took your horse and plough,
And the bed from under you." "Even so,"
She said ;"they are cruel as death, I know."
Then on they passed, in the waning day,
Through Seabrook woods, a weariful way ;
By great salt meadows and sand-hills bare,
And glimpses of blue sea here and there.
By the meeting-house in Salisbury town,
The sufferers stood, in the red sundown
Bare for the lash ! O pitying Night,
Drop swift thy curtain and hide the sight !
With shame in his eye and wrath on his lip
The Salisbury constable dropped his whip.
"This warrant means murder foul and red ;
Cursed is he who serves it," he said.
"Show me the order, and meanwhile strike
A blow to your peril !" said Justice Pike.
Of all the rulers the land possessed,
Wisest and boldest was he and best.
He scoffed at witchcraft ; the priest he met
As man meets man ; his feet he set
Beyond his dark age, standing upright,
Soul-free, with his face to the morning light.
He read the warrant : "These convey
From our precincts ; at every town on the way
Give each ten lashes." "God judge the brute !
I tread his order under my foot !
"Cut loose these poor ones and let them go ;
Come what will of it, all men shall know
No warrant is good, though backed by the Crown,
For whipping women in Salisbury town!"
The hearts of the villagers, half released
From creed of terror and rule of priest,
By a primal instinct owned the right
Of human pity in law's despite.
For ruth and chivalry only slept,
His Saxon manhood the yeoman kept ;
Quicker or slower, the same blood ran
In the Cavalier and the Puritan.
The Quakers sank on their knees in praise
And thanks. A last, low sunset blaze
Flashed out from under a cloud, and shed
A golden glory on each bowed head.
The tale is one of an evil time,
When souls were fettered and thought was crime,
And heresy's whisper above its breath
Meant shameful scouring and bonds and death !
What marvel, that hunted and sorely tried,
Even woman rebuked and prophesied,
And soft words rarely answered back
The grim persuasion of whip and rack !
If her cry from the whipping-post and jail
Pierced sharp as the Kenite's** driven nail,
O woman, at ease in these happier days,
Forbear to judge of thy sister's ways !
How much thy beautiful life may owe
To her faith and courage thou canst not know,
Nor how from the paths of thy calm retreat
She smoothed the thorns with her bleeding feet.
spains...@gmail.com
Sep 2, 2021, 7:22:18 AM9/2/21
to
On Wednesday, September 1, 2021 at 10:27:12 PM UTC+1, Mack A. Damia wrote:
> The Whipping of the Quaker Women
<snip>
> The Whipping of the Quaker Women
> If her cry from the whipping-post and jail
> Pierced sharp as the Kenite's** driven nail,
> O woman, at ease in these happier days,
> Forbear to judge of thy sister's ways !
Kenite's ?
J. J. Lodder
Sep 2, 2021, 7:35:17 AM9/2/21
to
Mack A. Damia <drstee...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> If her cry from the whipping-post and jail
> Pierced sharp as the Kenite's** driven nail,
> O woman, at ease in these happier days,
> Forbear to judge of thy sister's ways !
Judges 4:21
> If her cry from the whipping-post and jail
> Pierced sharp as the Kenite's** driven nail,
> O woman, at ease in these happier days,
> Forbear to judge of thy sister's ways !
Jan
spains...@gmail.com
Sep 2, 2021, 9:14:45 AM9/2/21
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Judges 4.21 (KJV)
Then Jael Heber's wife took a nail of the tent, and took an
hammer in her hand, and went softly unto him, and smote the
nail into his temples, and fastened it into the ground: for he
was fast asleep and weary. So he died.
Ross Clark
Sep 2, 2021, 8:56:44 PM9/2/21
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value was not immediately clear. Reading the verse in isolation, I got
the impression Jael must have killed her husband (Heber), and as this is
not one of the Bible stories I heard in Sunday School, I was uncertain
whether God thought this was a good thing to do, or not.
Fr McKenzie to the rescue:
Heber was a Kenite, a member of "a non-Israelite clan closely associated
with Judah". So maybe that makes his wife (Jael) a Kenite too? Or maybe
it's the "Kenite's nail" because the nails belonged to the man of the
house? Or...the Kenites may have been nomadic smiths, so maybe they made
the nail.)
But it wasn't Heber she nailed, anyhow. It was Sisera, who was a friend
of Heber's. He was either a Canaanite commander or possibly a king.
Anyhow, his army was defeated by the Israelites, and he "sought refuge"
in his friend's wife's tent.
Folks sure knew their Bible in them days.
J. J. Lodder
Sep 3, 2021, 4:31:33 AM9/3/21
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where she is identified as Jael, wife of Heber the Kenite.
BTW, this iron nail is of course a dead giveaway.
It dates the story firmly to the iron age,
ages removed from Egypt's Middle Kingdom
that they are supposed to have fled from,
Jan
phil
Sep 3, 2021, 4:53:50 AM9/3/21
to
On 01/09/2021 22:26, Mack A. Damia wrote:
>
> The Whipping of the Quaker Women
>
>
> The Whipping of the Quaker Women
>
> Finally, one of the elders of the First Church, Hatevil
> Nutter, had had enough.
>
>
>
I'd never heard of Hatevil Nutter, and I had to google him to find out
> Nutter, had had enough.
>
>
>
whether he was real.
Obviously he was a bad hat.
Madhu
Sep 3, 2021, 5:01:45 AM9/3/21
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* (J. J. Lodder) <1pexe0c.166...@de-ster.xs4all.nl> :
Wrote on Fri, 3 Sep 2021 10:31:29 +0200:
>
> The Kenite connection is four verses up, Judges 4:17,
> where she is identified as Jael, wife of Heber the Kenite.
>
> BTW, this iron nail is of course a dead giveaway.
> It dates the story firmly to the iron age,
> ages removed from Egypt's Middle Kingdom
> that they are supposed to have fled from,
No it is a folly of mediaval imagination which you are relaying as truth
Tents had tent-pegs in all ages.
Wrote on Fri, 3 Sep 2021 10:31:29 +0200:
>
> The Kenite connection is four verses up, Judges 4:17,
> where she is identified as Jael, wife of Heber the Kenite.
>
> BTW, this iron nail is of course a dead giveaway.
> It dates the story firmly to the iron age,
> ages removed from Egypt's Middle Kingdom
> that they are supposed to have fled from,
Tents had tent-pegs in all ages.
J. J. Lodder
Sep 3, 2021, 5:52:25 AM9/3/21
to
They must have camped on rocky grounds, sometimes. [1]
And anyway, what have the middle ages to do with it?
It is a much older text, and a post-medieval translation.
Apart from that, without having relevant experience head-wise,
I doubt very much whether you can nail a man's head to the ground
with a single stroke, using a wooden peg.
If it takes prolonged hammering you would expect the man
to wake up to do something about about being hammered on,
Jan
[1] Look it up, even the Negev is mostly a rock desert,
with relatively small patches of sand.
Jerry Friedman
Sep 3, 2021, 11:10:18 AM9/3/21
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Since you're talking about the dating, is your argument that the story
would have been plausible in the Iron Age but not near the time it was
supposed to have happened? I'm not sure plausibility is the criterion
for Bible stories. This one also says all of Sisera's soldiers were killed,
which seems unlikely. The Lord is responsible for that, and the Lord
is probably also supposed to be responsible for Jael's feat with the
hammer and the tent-peg.
> [1] Look it up, even the Negev is mostly a rock desert,
> with relatively small patches of sand.
of Kedesh is on the Israeli-Lebanese border. Anyway, tents are usually
pitched where the ground is soft enough for whatever tent-pegs are
available.
--
Jerry Friedman
Sam Plusnet
Sep 3, 2021, 5:26:53 PM9/3/21
to
(There are so many translations that there could be one which does.)
The item in question could be something similar to a treenail.
--
Sam Plusnet
Wales, UK
Jerry Friedman
Sep 3, 2021, 7:35:14 PM9/3/21
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whatever.
On the other hand, Judges 4:13 refers to Sisera's iron chariots. (I assume
the translators who render the word "barzel" as "iron" know what they're
doing. Anyway, it apparently means "iron" in modern Hebrew.)
On the gripping hand, the Lubavitchers' literalist chronology places
Deborah's judgeship at 1107-1067 BC(E), which is distinctly in the Iron
Age. (Other literalist chronologies are available.)
--
Jerry Friedman
J. J. Lodder
Sep 4, 2021, 5:28:59 AM9/4/21
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> The item in question could be something similar to a treenail.
to clear this matter up for us,
but I'm afraid that some pesky ethics committee
might interfere with the progress of science.
Anyway, I don't think that a wooden peg would do the trick,
and that it really takes iron.
Apart from that, why would tent dwellers
have treenails/tennons/dowels lying around?
These belong in a different culture,
Jan
Athel Cornish-Bowden
Sep 4, 2021, 6:08:29 AM9/4/21
to
hammered it in through one of his eyes. (My wife doesn't like me to
sleep on my back, but I don't think it's because Jael will come
visiting.)
> Apart from that, why would tent dwellers
> have treenails/tennons/dowels lying around?
> These belong in a different culture,
>
> Jan
Athel -- French and British, living mainly in England until 1987.
Sam Plusnet
Sep 4, 2021, 3:43:34 PM9/4/21
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structure for a tent.
Since I'm pretty sure they didn't use fibre-glass poles or steel or
aluminium, they would need something to provide a framework.
You don't think a wooden peg would work?
There are many hardwoods. How about ironwood?
J. J. Lodder
Sep 4, 2021, 4:02:17 PM9/4/21
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<https://alchetron.com/cdn/sisera-841e5653-a32d-41b8-a88a-1bbe7b028f5-resize-750.jpeg>
I prefer the more gentle approach by Artemisia:
<https://artandmuseum.com/sites/default/files/styles/db_xl/public/2021-04/rmt.jpg?itok=o8Ra5If8>
Her nail is a bit short though,
Jan
Snidely
Sep 4, 2021, 8:19:01 PM9/4/21
to
After serious thinking Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote :
Isn't the temple a weak spot? You might only get the frontal lobes,
though.
> (My wife doesn't like me to sleep on my back,
> but I don't think it's because Jael will come visiting.)
When camping near Lake Shasta, we used two tents. The first tent
thought there was a bear in the second tent, but the second tent (where
I was) slept through the entire episode.
/dps
--
"I'm glad unicorns don't ever need upgrades."
"We are as up as it is possible to get graded!"
_Phoebe and Her Unicorn_, 2016.05.15
though.
> (My wife doesn't like me to sleep on my back,
> but I don't think it's because Jael will come visiting.)
thought there was a bear in the second tent, but the second tent (where
I was) slept through the entire episode.
/dps
--
"I'm glad unicorns don't ever need upgrades."
"We are as up as it is possible to get graded!"
_Phoebe and Her Unicorn_, 2016.05.15
Madhu
Sep 4, 2021, 9:43:32 PM9/4/21
to
* (J. J. Lodder) <1pexhfl.pu...@de-ster.xs4all.nl> :
Wrote on Fri, 3 Sep 2021 11:52:21 +0200:
I think the "iron nail" comes from the imagination of that time.
I haven't looked it up yet. I really don't have the stomach for this, or
Deborah's song
Wrote on Fri, 3 Sep 2021 11:52:21 +0200:
> Madhu <eno...@meer.net> wrote:
>> * (J. J. Lodder) <1pexe0c.166...@de-ster.xs4all.nl> :
>> Wrote on Fri, 3 Sep 2021 10:31:29 +0200:
>> > The Kenite connection is four verses up, Judges 4:17,
>> > where she is identified as Jael, wife of Heber the Kenite.
>> >
>> > BTW, this iron nail is of course a dead giveaway.
>> > It dates the story firmly to the iron age,
>> > ages removed from Egypt's Middle Kingdom
>> > that they are supposed to have fled from,
>>
>> No it is a folly of mediaval imagination which you are relaying as truth
>> Tents had tent-pegs in all ages.
>
> In the sand desert, sure, but most of Kanaan wasn't.
> They must have camped on rocky grounds, sometimes. [1]
> And anyway, what have the middle ages to do with it?
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b6/Giaele_e_Sisara.JPG/800px-Giaele_e_Sisara.JPG
>> * (J. J. Lodder) <1pexe0c.166...@de-ster.xs4all.nl> :
>> Wrote on Fri, 3 Sep 2021 10:31:29 +0200:
>> > The Kenite connection is four verses up, Judges 4:17,
>> > where she is identified as Jael, wife of Heber the Kenite.
>> >
>> > BTW, this iron nail is of course a dead giveaway.
>> > It dates the story firmly to the iron age,
>> > ages removed from Egypt's Middle Kingdom
>> > that they are supposed to have fled from,
>>
>> No it is a folly of mediaval imagination which you are relaying as truth
>> Tents had tent-pegs in all ages.
>
> In the sand desert, sure, but most of Kanaan wasn't.
> They must have camped on rocky grounds, sometimes. [1]
> And anyway, what have the middle ages to do with it?
I think the "iron nail" comes from the imagination of that time.
I haven't looked it up yet. I really don't have the stomach for this, or
Deborah's song
Peter Moylan
Sep 4, 2021, 10:04:55 PM9/4/21
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On 05/09/21 06:43, Sam Plusnet wrote:
> Treenails would be jolly handy to fix in place a wooden support
> structure for a tent.
> Since I'm pretty sure they didn't use fibre-glass poles or steel or
> aluminium, they would need something to provide a framework.
> You don't think a wooden peg would work?
> There are many hardwoods. How about ironwood?
In a sandy desert no kind of tent-peg would work, because it won't stay
> Treenails would be jolly handy to fix in place a wooden support
> structure for a tent.
> Since I'm pretty sure they didn't use fibre-glass poles or steel or
> aluminium, they would need something to provide a framework.
> You don't think a wooden peg would work?
> There are many hardwoods. How about ironwood?
fixed in the sand. In fact, I'm not sure how I'd pitch a tent in the
desert. Probably they used the kind of tents that would stay fixed in
position from their own weight (and the weight of the contents).
--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org
J. J. Lodder
Sep 5, 2021, 5:10:27 AM9/5/21
to
Peter Moylan <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
> On 05/09/21 06:43, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>
> > Treenails would be jolly handy to fix in place a wooden support
> > structure for a tent.
> > Since I'm pretty sure they didn't use fibre-glass poles or steel or
> > aluminium, they would need something to provide a framework.
> > You don't think a wooden peg would work?
> > There are many hardwoods. How about ironwood?
>
> In a sandy desert no kind of tent-peg would work, because it won't stay
> fixed in the sand.
I can confirm the opposite,
> On 05/09/21 06:43, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>
> > Treenails would be jolly handy to fix in place a wooden support
> > structure for a tent.
> > Since I'm pretty sure they didn't use fibre-glass poles or steel or
> > aluminium, they would need something to provide a framework.
> > You don't think a wooden peg would work?
> > There are many hardwoods. How about ironwood?
>
> In a sandy desert no kind of tent-peg would work, because it won't stay
> fixed in the sand.
from having camped in the dunes during a storm.
> In fact, I'm not sure how I'd pitch a tent in the
> desert.
Iron pegs won't do.
> Probably they used the kind of tents that would stay fixed in
> position from their own weight (and the weight of the contents).
Jan
Mack A. Damia
Sep 5, 2021, 11:20:29 AM9/5/21
to
On Sun, 5 Sep 2021 11:10:22 +0200, nos...@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J.
Lodder) wrote:
>Peter Moylan <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 05/09/21 06:43, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>>
>> > Treenails would be jolly handy to fix in place a wooden support
>> > structure for a tent.
>> > Since I'm pretty sure they didn't use fibre-glass poles or steel or
>> > aluminium, they would need something to provide a framework.
>> > You don't think a wooden peg would work?
>> > There are many hardwoods. How about ironwood?
>>
>> In a sandy desert no kind of tent-peg would work, because it won't stay
>> fixed in the sand.
>
>I can confirm the opposite,
>from having camped in the dunes during a storm.
>
>> In fact, I'm not sure how I'd pitch a tent in the
>> desert.
>
>Just use big wooden tent pegs, and a lot of them.
>Iron pegs won't do.
Screw-type pegs, at least ten inches long. Iron (steel) is okay.
Lodder) wrote:
>Peter Moylan <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 05/09/21 06:43, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>>
>> > Treenails would be jolly handy to fix in place a wooden support
>> > structure for a tent.
>> > Since I'm pretty sure they didn't use fibre-glass poles or steel or
>> > aluminium, they would need something to provide a framework.
>> > You don't think a wooden peg would work?
>> > There are many hardwoods. How about ironwood?
>>
>> In a sandy desert no kind of tent-peg would work, because it won't stay
>> fixed in the sand.
>
>I can confirm the opposite,
>from having camped in the dunes during a storm.
>
>> In fact, I'm not sure how I'd pitch a tent in the
>> desert.
>
>Just use big wooden tent pegs, and a lot of them.
>Iron pegs won't do.
Anchor with rocks if available.
J. J. Lodder
Sep 5, 2021, 3:40:50 PM9/5/21
to
as either 'kite anchor' or 'dog anchor'. [1]
Easy to manufacture, if you have mild steel,
which of course they hadn't.
Very hard to make with anvil and hammer,
Jan
[1] But kind of impractical
to take twenty of the things with you on holiday
for putting up a tent.
<https://intothewind.com/kite-anchor.html>
Mack A. Damia
Sep 5, 2021, 4:28:14 PM9/5/21
to
On Sun, 5 Sep 2021 21:40:47 +0200, nos...@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J.
Early man wasn't helpless. The screws could have been made (carved)
from wood. Wooden screws were first used in olive presses and grape
presses. They date from antiquity.
from wood. Wooden screws were first used in olive presses and grape
presses. They date from antiquity.
Mack A. Damia
Sep 5, 2021, 4:46:55 PM9/5/21
to
protruding along its length. As such:
|
|\
/|
|\
/|
Not certain how effective they would be, but it's worth a try.
J. J. Lodder
Sep 5, 2021, 4:50:05 PM9/5/21
to
> Wooden screws were first used in olive presses and grape
> presses. They date from antiquity.
to invent them,
Jan
Mack A. Damia
Sep 5, 2021, 5:03:34 PM9/5/21
to
On Sun, 5 Sep 2021 22:50:01 +0200, nos...@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J.
The oldest figurative sculpture is the mammoth ivory carving known as
the Lion Man of the Hohlenstein Stadel (38,000 BCE). This is one of
several Aurignacian carved figures from the series of ivory carvings
of the Swabian Jura, dating from 33,000 BCE, which were recently
discovered in southwestern Germany.
>> Wooden screws were first used in olive presses and grape
>> presses. They date from antiquity.
>
>It took the mathematical/engineering genius of Archimedes
>to invent them,
That's the Archimedes Screw, which is a bit more complex than an
ordinary screw. It is considered by some that the screw thread was
invented in about 400BC by Archytas of Tarentum.
the Lion Man of the Hohlenstein Stadel (38,000 BCE). This is one of
several Aurignacian carved figures from the series of ivory carvings
of the Swabian Jura, dating from 33,000 BCE, which were recently
discovered in southwestern Germany.
>> Wooden screws were first used in olive presses and grape
>> presses. They date from antiquity.
>
>It took the mathematical/engineering genius of Archimedes
>to invent them,
ordinary screw. It is considered by some that the screw thread was
invented in about 400BC by Archytas of Tarentum.
Peter T. Daniels
Sep 6, 2021, 8:51:22 AM9/6/21
to
On Sunday, September 5, 2021 at 5:03:34 PM UTC-4, Mack A. Damia wrote:
> On Sun, 5 Sep 2021 22:50:01 +0200, nos...@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J.
> Lodder) wrote:
> >Mack A. Damia <drstee...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> >Mack A. Damia <drstee...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> >> On Sun, 5 Sep 2021 11:10:22 +0200, nos...@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J.
> >> >> Lodder) wrote:
> >> >> >Just use big wooden tent pegs, and a lot of them.
> >> >> >Iron pegs won't do.
> >> >> Screw-type pegs, at least ten inches long. Iron (steel) is okay.
> On Sun, 5 Sep 2021 22:50:01 +0200, nos...@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J.
> Lodder) wrote:
> >Mack A. Damia <drstee...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> >Mack A. Damia <drstee...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> >> On Sun, 5 Sep 2021 11:10:22 +0200, nos...@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J.
> >> >> Lodder) wrote:
> >> >> >Just use big wooden tent pegs, and a lot of them.
> >> >> >Iron pegs won't do.
> >> >> Screw-type pegs, at least ten inches long. Iron (steel) is okay.
> >> Early man wasn't helpless. The screws could have been made (carved)
> >> from wood.
> >They were far too dumb for that.
>
> [irrelevant Aurignacian carved figures]
> >> from wood.
> >They were far too dumb for that.
>
>
> >> Wooden screws were first used in olive presses and grape
> >> presses. They date from antiquity.
> >It took the mathematical/engineering genius of Archimedes
> >to invent them,
>
> That's the Archimedes Screw, which is a bit more complex than an
> ordinary screw. It is considered by some that the screw thread was
> invented in about 400BC by Archytas of Tarentum.
That still doesn't take you back to :"early man." Less than two
> >> Wooden screws were first used in olive presses and grape
> >> presses. They date from antiquity.
> >It took the mathematical/engineering genius of Archimedes
> >to invent them,
>
> That's the Archimedes Screw, which is a bit more complex than an
> ordinary screw. It is considered by some that the screw thread was
> invented in about 400BC by Archytas of Tarentum.
centuries before Archimedes, actually.
Mack A. Damia
Sep 6, 2021, 12:11:06 PM9/6/21
to
as you claim, then it ought to be "Early Man" (capitalized).
We don't refer to the bronze age, the iron age or the mesolithic
period. They are all capitalized.
Peter T. Daniels
Sep 6, 2021, 1:53:02 PM9/6/21
to
> We don't refer to the bronze age, the iron age or the mesolithic
> period. They are all capitalized.
Mack A. Damia
Sep 6, 2021, 2:41:04 PM9/6/21
to
On Mon, 6 Sep 2021 10:52:59 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Duh? I wrote "Early man wasn't helpless". Early was capitalized
because it is the first word in the sentence.
You are referring to a specific group of people at a specific time. My
usage of it is very general.
>> We don't refer to the bronze age, the iron age or the mesolithic
>> period. They are all capitalized.
>
>We don't call the 4th-5th c. BCE "early man," or even "Early Man."
Who is "We"?
because it is the first word in the sentence.
You are referring to a specific group of people at a specific time. My
usage of it is very general.
>> We don't refer to the bronze age, the iron age or the mesolithic
>> period. They are all capitalized.
>
>We don't call the 4th-5th c. BCE "early man," or even "Early Man."
Peter T. Daniels
Sep 6, 2021, 3:28:17 PM9/6/21
to
its hegemony -- at least, was powerful enough to establish its epichoric
alphabet as the standard -- at the very end of the 5th c., viz. 403/402 BCE.
> >> We don't refer to the bronze age, the iron age or the mesolithic
> >> period. They are all capitalized.
> >We don't call the 4th-5th c. BCE "early man," or even "Early Man."
> Who is "We"?
point of view, Classical Greece and Rome are johnnies-come-lately,
and hardly seem ancient).
Even the Sumerians are not "early man."
Janet
Sep 7, 2021, 5:33:06 AM9/7/21
to
In article <2vncjg59l82qjue32...@4ax.com>,
drstee...@yahoo.com says...
According to PTD, it's all the women in Scotland in 1960.
HTH
Janet
drstee...@yahoo.com says...
HTH
Janet
Snidely
Sep 7, 2021, 6:48:32 AM9/7/21
to
/dps
--
You could try being nicer and politer
> instead, and see how that works out.
-- Katy Jennison
Arindam Banerjee
Sep 7, 2021, 7:04:58 PM9/7/21
to
On Thursday, 2 September 2021 at 07:27:12 UTC+10, Mack A. Damia wrote:
> The Whipping of the Quaker Women
>
> In 1662 three young Quaker women from England came to Dover (New
> Hampshire). True to their faith, they preached against professional
> ministers, restrictions on individual conscience, and the established
> customs of the church-ruled settlement. They openly argued with
> Dover's powerful Congregational minister John Reyner. For six weeks
> the Quaker women held meetings and services at various dwellings
> around Dover. Finally, one of the elders of the First Church, Hatevil
> Nutter, had had enough. A petition by the inhabitants of Dover was
> presented "humbly craving relief against the spreading & the wicked
> errors of the Quakers among them". Captain Richard Walderne (Waldron),
> crown magistrate, issued the following order: "To the constables of
> Dover, Hampton, Salisbury, Newbury, Rowley, Ipswich, Wenham, Linn,
> Boston, Roxbury, Dedham, and until these vagabond Quakers are carried
> out of this jurisdiction, you, and every one of you are required in
> the name of the King's Majesty's name, to take these vagabond Quakers,
> Ann Coleman, Mary Tompkins, and Alice Ambrose, and make them fast to
> the cart's tail, and driving the cart through your several towns, to
> whip their naked backs, not exceeding ten stripes apiece on each of
> them, in each town; and so to convey them from constable to constable,
> till they are out of this jurisdiction". Walderne's punishment was
> severe, calling for whippings in at least eleven towns, and requiring
> travel over eighty miles in bitterly cold weather.
>
> On a frigid winter day, constables John and Thomas Roberts of Dover
> seized the three women. George Bishop recorded the follow account of
> events. "Deputy Waldron caused these women to be stripped naked from
> the middle upwards, and tied to a cart, and after awhile cruelly
> whipped them, whilst the priest stood and looked and laughed at it."
> Sewall's History of the Quakers continues " The women thus being
> whipped at Dover, were carried to Hampton and there delivered to the
> constable...The constable the next morning would have whipped them
> before day, but they refused , saying they were not ashamed of their
> sufferings. Then he would have whipped them with their clothes on,
> when he had tied them to the cart. But they said, 'set us free, or do
> according to thine order. He then spoke to a woman to take off their
> clothes. But she said she would not for all the world. Why, said he,
> then I'll do it myself. So he stripped them, and then stood trembling
> whip in hand, and so he did the execution. Then he carried them to
> Salisbury through the dirt and the snow half the leg deep; and here
> they were whipped again. Indeed their bodies were so torn, that if
> Providence had not watched over them, they might have been in danger
> of their lives." In Salisbury, Sergeant Major Robert Pike stopped the
> persecution of the Quaker women. Dr. Walter Barefoot, who was one of
> the company that went with the constable, dressed their wounds and
> brought them back to the Piscataqua, setting them up on the Maine side
> of the river at the home of Major Nicholas Shapleigh of Kittery.
>
> Eventually the Quaker women returned to Dover, and established a
> church. In time, over a third of Dover's citizens became Quaker.
>
> John Greenleaf Whittier immortalized the suffering of the Quaker women
> in the following poem.
>
> How The Women Went from Dover
>
> The tossing spray of Cocheco's fall
> Hardened to ice on its rocky wall,
> As through Dover town in the chill, gray dawn,
> Three women passed, at the cart-tail drawn !
>
> Bared to the waist, for the north wind's grip
> And keener sting of the constable's whip,
> The blood that followed each hissing blow
> Froze as it sprinkled the winter snow.
>
> Priest and ruler, boy and maid
> Followed the dismal cavalcade ;
> And from door and window, open thrown,
> Looked and wondered gaffer and crone.
>
> "God is our witness," the victims cried,
> "We suffer for Him who for all men died ;
> The wrong ye do has been done before,
> We bear the stripes that the Master bore !
>
> "And thou, O Richard Waldron, for whom
> We hear the feet of a coming doom,
> On thy cruel heart and thy hand of wrong
> Vengeance is sure, though it tarry long.
>
> "In the light of the Lord, a flame we see
> Climb and kindle a proud roof-tree ;
> And beneath it an old man lying dead,
> With stains of blood on his hoary head."
>
> "Smite, Goodman Hate - Evil!-harder still !"
> The magistrate cried, "lay on with a will !
> Drive out of their bodies the Father of Lies,
> Who through them preaches and prophesies !"
>
> So into the forest they held their way,
> By winding river and frost-rimmed bay,
> Over wind-swept hills that felt the beat
> Of the winter sea at their icy feet.
>
> The Indian hunter, searching his traps,
> Peered stealthily through the forest gaps ;
> And the outlying settler shook his head,
> "They're witches going to jail," he said.
>
> At last a meeting-house came in view ;
> A blast on his horn the constable blew ;
> And the boys of Hampton cried up and down
> "The Quakers have come !" to the wondering town.
>
> From barn and woodpile the goodman came;
> The goodwife quitted her quilting frame,
> With her child at her breast ; and, hobbling slow,
> The grandam followed to see the show.
>
> Once more the torturing whip was swung,
> Once more keen lashes the bare flesh stung.
> "Oh, spare ! they are bleeding !" a little maid cried,
> And covered her face the sight to hide.
>
> A murmur ran round the crowd : "Good folks,"
> Quoth the constable, busy counting the strokes,
> "No pity to wretches like these is due,
> They have beaten the gospel black and blue !"
>
> Then a pallid woman, in wild-eyed fear,
> With her wooden noggin of milk drew near.
> "Drink, poor hearts !" a rude hand smote
> Her draught away from a parching throat.
>
> "Take heed," one whispered, "they'll take your cow
> For fines, as they took your horse and plough,
> And the bed from under you." "Even so,"
> She said ;"they are cruel as death, I know."
>
> Then on they passed, in the waning day,
> Through Seabrook woods, a weariful way ;
> By great salt meadows and sand-hills bare,
> And glimpses of blue sea here and there.
>
> By the meeting-house in Salisbury town,
> The sufferers stood, in the red sundown
> Bare for the lash ! O pitying Night,
> Drop swift thy curtain and hide the sight !
>
> With shame in his eye and wrath on his lip
> The Salisbury constable dropped his whip.
> "This warrant means murder foul and red ;
> Cursed is he who serves it," he said.
>
> "Show me the order, and meanwhile strike
> A blow to your peril !" said Justice Pike.
> Of all the rulers the land possessed,
> Wisest and boldest was he and best.
>
> He scoffed at witchcraft ; the priest he met
> As man meets man ; his feet he set
> Beyond his dark age, standing upright,
> Soul-free, with his face to the morning light.
>
> He read the warrant : "These convey
> From our precincts ; at every town on the way
> Give each ten lashes." "God judge the brute !
> I tread his order under my foot !
>
> "Cut loose these poor ones and let them go ;
> Come what will of it, all men shall know
> No warrant is good, though backed by the Crown,
> For whipping women in Salisbury town!"
>
> The hearts of the villagers, half released
> From creed of terror and rule of priest,
> By a primal instinct owned the right
> Of human pity in law's despite.
>
> For ruth and chivalry only slept,
> His Saxon manhood the yeoman kept ;
> Quicker or slower, the same blood ran
> In the Cavalier and the Puritan.
>
> The Quakers sank on their knees in praise
> And thanks. A last, low sunset blaze
> Flashed out from under a cloud, and shed
> A golden glory on each bowed head.
>
> The tale is one of an evil time,
> When souls were fettered and thought was crime,
> And heresy's whisper above its breath
> Meant shameful scouring and bonds and death !
>
> What marvel, that hunted and sorely tried,
> Even woman rebuked and prophesied,
> And soft words rarely answered back
> The grim persuasion of whip and rack !
> To her faith and courage thou canst not know,
> Nor how from the paths of thy calm retreat
> She smoothed the thorns with her bleeding feet.
Pretty horrible.
I have heard of Shakers.
Were they like Quakers?
> The Whipping of the Quaker Women
>
> In 1662 three young Quaker women from England came to Dover (New
> Hampshire). True to their faith, they preached against professional
> ministers, restrictions on individual conscience, and the established
> customs of the church-ruled settlement. They openly argued with
> Dover's powerful Congregational minister John Reyner. For six weeks
> the Quaker women held meetings and services at various dwellings
> around Dover. Finally, one of the elders of the First Church, Hatevil
> Nutter, had had enough. A petition by the inhabitants of Dover was
> presented "humbly craving relief against the spreading & the wicked
> errors of the Quakers among them". Captain Richard Walderne (Waldron),
> crown magistrate, issued the following order: "To the constables of
> Dover, Hampton, Salisbury, Newbury, Rowley, Ipswich, Wenham, Linn,
> Boston, Roxbury, Dedham, and until these vagabond Quakers are carried
> out of this jurisdiction, you, and every one of you are required in
> the name of the King's Majesty's name, to take these vagabond Quakers,
> Ann Coleman, Mary Tompkins, and Alice Ambrose, and make them fast to
> the cart's tail, and driving the cart through your several towns, to
> whip their naked backs, not exceeding ten stripes apiece on each of
> them, in each town; and so to convey them from constable to constable,
> till they are out of this jurisdiction". Walderne's punishment was
> severe, calling for whippings in at least eleven towns, and requiring
> travel over eighty miles in bitterly cold weather.
>
> On a frigid winter day, constables John and Thomas Roberts of Dover
> seized the three women. George Bishop recorded the follow account of
> events. "Deputy Waldron caused these women to be stripped naked from
> the middle upwards, and tied to a cart, and after awhile cruelly
> whipped them, whilst the priest stood and looked and laughed at it."
> Sewall's History of the Quakers continues " The women thus being
> whipped at Dover, were carried to Hampton and there delivered to the
> constable...The constable the next morning would have whipped them
> before day, but they refused , saying they were not ashamed of their
> sufferings. Then he would have whipped them with their clothes on,
> when he had tied them to the cart. But they said, 'set us free, or do
> according to thine order. He then spoke to a woman to take off their
> clothes. But she said she would not for all the world. Why, said he,
> then I'll do it myself. So he stripped them, and then stood trembling
> whip in hand, and so he did the execution. Then he carried them to
> Salisbury through the dirt and the snow half the leg deep; and here
> they were whipped again. Indeed their bodies were so torn, that if
> Providence had not watched over them, they might have been in danger
> of their lives." In Salisbury, Sergeant Major Robert Pike stopped the
> persecution of the Quaker women. Dr. Walter Barefoot, who was one of
> the company that went with the constable, dressed their wounds and
> brought them back to the Piscataqua, setting them up on the Maine side
> of the river at the home of Major Nicholas Shapleigh of Kittery.
>
> Eventually the Quaker women returned to Dover, and established a
> church. In time, over a third of Dover's citizens became Quaker.
>
> John Greenleaf Whittier immortalized the suffering of the Quaker women
> in the following poem.
>
> How The Women Went from Dover
>
> The tossing spray of Cocheco's fall
> Hardened to ice on its rocky wall,
> As through Dover town in the chill, gray dawn,
> Three women passed, at the cart-tail drawn !
>
> Bared to the waist, for the north wind's grip
> And keener sting of the constable's whip,
> The blood that followed each hissing blow
> Froze as it sprinkled the winter snow.
>
> Priest and ruler, boy and maid
> Followed the dismal cavalcade ;
> And from door and window, open thrown,
> Looked and wondered gaffer and crone.
>
> "God is our witness," the victims cried,
> "We suffer for Him who for all men died ;
> The wrong ye do has been done before,
> We bear the stripes that the Master bore !
>
> "And thou, O Richard Waldron, for whom
> We hear the feet of a coming doom,
> On thy cruel heart and thy hand of wrong
> Vengeance is sure, though it tarry long.
>
> "In the light of the Lord, a flame we see
> Climb and kindle a proud roof-tree ;
> And beneath it an old man lying dead,
> With stains of blood on his hoary head."
>
> "Smite, Goodman Hate - Evil!-harder still !"
> The magistrate cried, "lay on with a will !
> Drive out of their bodies the Father of Lies,
> Who through them preaches and prophesies !"
>
> So into the forest they held their way,
> By winding river and frost-rimmed bay,
> Over wind-swept hills that felt the beat
> Of the winter sea at their icy feet.
>
> The Indian hunter, searching his traps,
> Peered stealthily through the forest gaps ;
> And the outlying settler shook his head,
> "They're witches going to jail," he said.
>
> At last a meeting-house came in view ;
> A blast on his horn the constable blew ;
> And the boys of Hampton cried up and down
> "The Quakers have come !" to the wondering town.
>
> From barn and woodpile the goodman came;
> The goodwife quitted her quilting frame,
> With her child at her breast ; and, hobbling slow,
> The grandam followed to see the show.
>
> Once more the torturing whip was swung,
> Once more keen lashes the bare flesh stung.
> "Oh, spare ! they are bleeding !" a little maid cried,
> And covered her face the sight to hide.
>
> A murmur ran round the crowd : "Good folks,"
> Quoth the constable, busy counting the strokes,
> "No pity to wretches like these is due,
> They have beaten the gospel black and blue !"
>
> Then a pallid woman, in wild-eyed fear,
> With her wooden noggin of milk drew near.
> "Drink, poor hearts !" a rude hand smote
> Her draught away from a parching throat.
>
> "Take heed," one whispered, "they'll take your cow
> For fines, as they took your horse and plough,
> And the bed from under you." "Even so,"
> She said ;"they are cruel as death, I know."
>
> Then on they passed, in the waning day,
> Through Seabrook woods, a weariful way ;
> By great salt meadows and sand-hills bare,
> And glimpses of blue sea here and there.
>
> By the meeting-house in Salisbury town,
> The sufferers stood, in the red sundown
> Bare for the lash ! O pitying Night,
> Drop swift thy curtain and hide the sight !
>
> With shame in his eye and wrath on his lip
> The Salisbury constable dropped his whip.
> "This warrant means murder foul and red ;
> Cursed is he who serves it," he said.
>
> "Show me the order, and meanwhile strike
> A blow to your peril !" said Justice Pike.
> Of all the rulers the land possessed,
> Wisest and boldest was he and best.
>
> He scoffed at witchcraft ; the priest he met
> As man meets man ; his feet he set
> Beyond his dark age, standing upright,
> Soul-free, with his face to the morning light.
>
> He read the warrant : "These convey
> From our precincts ; at every town on the way
> Give each ten lashes." "God judge the brute !
> I tread his order under my foot !
>
> "Cut loose these poor ones and let them go ;
> Come what will of it, all men shall know
> No warrant is good, though backed by the Crown,
> For whipping women in Salisbury town!"
>
> The hearts of the villagers, half released
> From creed of terror and rule of priest,
> By a primal instinct owned the right
> Of human pity in law's despite.
>
> For ruth and chivalry only slept,
> His Saxon manhood the yeoman kept ;
> Quicker or slower, the same blood ran
> In the Cavalier and the Puritan.
>
> The Quakers sank on their knees in praise
> And thanks. A last, low sunset blaze
> Flashed out from under a cloud, and shed
> A golden glory on each bowed head.
>
> The tale is one of an evil time,
> When souls were fettered and thought was crime,
> And heresy's whisper above its breath
> Meant shameful scouring and bonds and death !
>
> What marvel, that hunted and sorely tried,
> Even woman rebuked and prophesied,
> And soft words rarely answered back
> The grim persuasion of whip and rack !
>
> If her cry from the whipping-post and jail
> Pierced sharp as the Kenite's** driven nail,
> O woman, at ease in these happier days,
> Forbear to judge of thy sister's ways !
>
> How much thy beautiful life may owe
> If her cry from the whipping-post and jail
> Pierced sharp as the Kenite's** driven nail,
> O woman, at ease in these happier days,
> Forbear to judge of thy sister's ways !
>
> To her faith and courage thou canst not know,
> Nor how from the paths of thy calm retreat
> She smoothed the thorns with her bleeding feet.
Pretty horrible.
I have heard of Shakers.
Were they like Quakers?
Mack A. Damia
Sep 7, 2021, 9:12:05 PM9/7/21
to
Nixon was a Quaker.
Google is your friend.
Madhu
Sep 8, 2021, 12:32:39 AM9/8/21
to
* Mack A. Damia <dd3gjg5bq6rg6v8kj...@4ax.com> :
Wrote on Tue, 07 Sep 2021 18:11:55 -0700:
>
> Google is your friend.
Google is not your friend you retards, google is the antichrist. It is
nobody's friend.
Wrote on Tue, 07 Sep 2021 18:11:55 -0700:
>
> Google is your friend.
Google is not your friend you retards, google is the antichrist. It is
nobody's friend.
Arindam Banerjee
Sep 8, 2021, 1:21:36 AM9/8/21
to
Like Omsk and Tomsk, two Russian cities.
As Clovis pointed out.
bil...@shaw.ca
Sep 8, 2021, 1:42:14 AM9/8/21
to
you can look them up. Does that seem offensive to you? Why?
bill
Peter T. Daniels
Sep 8, 2021, 9:15:06 AM9/8/21
to
Unicode blocks. Under the name "Noto" or "Noto Sans," they are
providing some.
Adam Funk
Sep 8, 2021, 10:15:07 AM9/8/21
to
--
I've had a few myself, he said,
but I never quit when I'm ahead
Peter T. Daniels
Sep 8, 2021, 10:48:47 AM9/8/21
to
On Wednesday, September 8, 2021 at 10:15:07 AM UTC-4, Adam Funk wrote:
> On 2021-09-08, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > On Wednesday, September 8, 2021 at 12:32:39 AM UTC-4, Madhu wrote:
> >> * Mack A. Damia <dd3gjg5bq6rg6v8kj...@4ax.com> :
> >> Wrote on Tue, 07 Sep 2021 18:11:55 -0700:
> >> > Google is your friend.
> >> Google is not your friend you retards, google is the antichrist. It is
> >> nobody's friend.
> > Google is the friend of those who need usable fonts for neglected
> > Unicode blocks. Under the name "Noto" or "Noto Sans," they are
> > providing some.
>
> Interesting, thanks.
Incidentally, I couldn't find the page by googling. Fortunately I got a
> On 2021-09-08, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > On Wednesday, September 8, 2021 at 12:32:39 AM UTC-4, Madhu wrote:
> >> * Mack A. Damia <dd3gjg5bq6rg6v8kj...@4ax.com> :
> >> Wrote on Tue, 07 Sep 2021 18:11:55 -0700:
> >> > Google is your friend.
> >> Google is not your friend you retards, google is the antichrist. It is
> >> nobody's friend.
> > Google is the friend of those who need usable fonts for neglected
> > Unicode blocks. Under the name "Noto" or "Noto Sans," they are
> > providing some.
>
> Interesting, thanks.
link from somewhere (Omniglot?) for one of the fonts or for the ToC
page and could get to it that way.
https://www.google.com/get/noto/
Mack A. Damia
Sep 8, 2021, 11:14:30 AM9/8/21
to
Jerry Friedman
Sep 8, 2021, 1:17:05 PM9/8/21
to
On Tuesday, September 7, 2021 at 5:04:58 PM UTC-6, Arindam Banerjee wrote:
> On Thursday, 2 September 2021 at 07:27:12 UTC+10, Mack A. Damia wrote:
> > The Whipping of the Quaker Women
[big snip]
> On Thursday, 2 September 2021 at 07:27:12 UTC+10, Mack A. Damia wrote:
> > The Whipping of the Quaker Women
> Pretty horrible.
> I have heard of Shakers.
> Were they like Quakers?
deal of information is available on the Internet.
--
Jerry Friedman
Mack A. Damia
Sep 8, 2021, 1:55:37 PM9/8/21
to
marry and have children. They adopted from orphanages. Shakers
believed that Mother Anne Lee was the second incarnation of Christ;
Quakers did not agree. Big differences.
0 new messages