Garibaldi Biscuits
John Dean
generations of school-children, was, according to the usual reliable
sources, invented in 1861 and named after the Italian patriot. Some
on-line sources suggest the name was applied because Garibaldi had made
a visit to England and was well received. From what I can see, however,
his visit to England was in 1864 and he wasn't that well received
anyway.
So - anyone confirm the biscuit was named after the famous Italian
General and American candle maker? (I'd be amazed if it wasn't).
Part two - Why? Why not the Lincoln biscuit, the Grant biscuit, the
Sherman biscuit?
--
John Dean
Oxford
Boron Elgar
If you folks would ditch the biscuits in favor of cookies, this would
not be a problem.
Boron
Raymond S. Wise
Too late. "Cookie" has already been accepted into British English, but
with the meaning restricted to "an American-style cookie," referring to
such cookies as chocolate-chip cookies and oatmeal-raisin cookies. (The
same thing has happened in French. An example of this can be seen in
the French-dubbed version of Woody Allen's *Small Time Crooks,* in
which the character named Frenchy bakes "cookies," not "biscuits.")
--
Raymond S. Wise
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
E-mail: mplsray @ yahoo . com
Boron Elgar
wrote:
But who'd dream of naming a cookie after an Italian revolutionary?
Boron
Philip Eden
"John Dean" <john...@frag.lineone.net> wrote:
Why not the Lincoln biscuit, the Grant biscuit, the
> Sherman biscuit?
> --
Have you never eaten a Lincoln, John? The only two kinds
of biscuit we were allowed to buy to supplement our milk-break
milk at William Austin County Primary were Rich Tea and
Lincoln.
And I understand Sherman Oats are van nuys too.
Philip Eden
Martin Ambuhl
> If you folks would ditch the biscuits in favor of cookies, this would
> not be a problem.
Perhaps John would rather not be tossing his cookies.
Charles Riggs
Again, I'd like to recommend Carr's Table Water biscuits. Far lower in
fat than the better known Ritz crackers, and just as good. Even better
with cheese on top, needless to say.
--
Charles Riggs
Laura F. Spira
Surely you've eaten a Lincoln biscuit?
http://www.nicecupofteaandasitdown.com/biscuits/previous.php3?item=20
Obviously not named for Abe, though.
--
Laura
(emulate St. George for email)
the Omrud
Good Man. Water biscuits are the very best accompaniment for strong
Cheddar. I love 'em.
--
David
=====
replace usenet with the
Matthew Huntbach
> The Garibaldi biscuit, or squashed fly biscuit as it has been known to
> generations of school-children, was, according to the usual reliable
> sources, invented in 1861 and named after the Italian patriot. Some
> on-line sources suggest the name was applied because Garibaldi had made
> a visit to England and was well received. From what I can see, however,
> his visit to England was in 1864 and he wasn't that well received
> anyway.
Garibaldi was widely admired in 19th-century England. He was seen as
a liberal reformer who was pushing through the sort of reforms that
had already taken place in Britain. He was also seen as an enemy of
the papacy, at a time when anti-Catholicism of the sort we now only
associate with the likes of Ian Paisley was normal throughout England.
If the biscuit was invented in 1861, it would have been at the height
of Garibaldi's fame, and in those days it wasn't unusual to name things
after famous and admired people.
Matthew Huntbach
Will
the Omrud wrote:
> Charles Riggs spake thusly:
[...]
> > Again, I'd like to recommend Carr's Table Water biscuits. Far lower in
> > fat than the better known Ritz crackers, and just as good. Even better
> > with cheese on top, needless to say.
>
> Good Man. Water biscuits are the very best accompaniment for strong
> Cheddar. I love 'em.
You need to be careful with water biscuits. Some varieties (possibly
including Carr's) contain hydrogenated vegetable oil which, together
with its bastard love child partially hydrogenated vegetable oil, is a
Bad Thing and must on no account whatsoever pass your lips.
I find Nairn's Oatcakes are also a fine accompaniment to all cheeses,
particularly Keen's or Montgomery's Cheddar, the two very best makers.
Will.
John Dean
Okay, but why Garibaldi particularly? Who else has had a biscuit named
after them? (Apart from the entire Bourbon dynasty).
I note that G had an item of clothing named after him - in the grand
tradition of Wellingtons, Cardigans and such. But a biscuit? And why
that particular *type* of biscuit?
--
John Dean
Oxford
John Dean
I've eaten many. But I didn't know they had a special name.
--
John Dean
Oxford
Harvey Van Sickle
-snip-
> Okay, but why Garibaldi particularly? Who else has had a biscuit
> named after them? (Apart from the entire Bourbon dynasty).
> I note that G had an item of clothing named after him - in the
> grand tradition of Wellingtons, Cardigans and such. But a biscuit?
> And why that particular *type* of biscuit?
(Imagine this in the typeface of a Victorian flyer, please.)
Because it is a REVOLUTIONARY and NEW COMESTIBLE, which when eaten in
moderation does wonders for one's CONSTITUTION. It SQUASHES the
OPPOSING FORCES OF REACTION like FLIES: without bloodshed, and
avoiding the need for RED SHIRTS.
(OK; I'll quit now...)
--
Cheers, Harvey
Canada for 30 years; S England since 1982.
(for e-mail, change harvey.news to harvey.van)
the Omrud
Alexi Sayle has a routine centering on why biscuits are named after
European revolutionaries, but I don't recall him getting any further
than Garibaldi and the Bourbons.
As to the biscuit, here's a comment from Stuart Payne of the
"sitdown" web site:
"There?s a raging debate about the Garibaldi biscuit," explains
Stuart. "Some people think it?s named after the unifier of Italy, but
it's been suggested that it was so named because the texture of the
biscuit reminded people of Garibaldi?s poor complexion."
Matthew Huntbach
I don't know, maybe the currants that go into the biscuits came from
Italy. It's difficult for us to imagine the impact that Garibaldi had
in 19th century England. Maybe we need to think of the popularity
Nelson Mandela has here. Or another way of thinking of it is to realise
that Catholicism in 19th century England was rather like Islam in
21st century England - tolerated, but viewed with considerable unease
partly because where it was dominant abroad it tended to be repressive
and supported extreme conservative regimes, and it was feared,
with some justification, to have aims of global domination. If a moderate
reforming figure were to storm through the Islamic world today, bringing down
the most extreme Islamic regimes and establishing a democratic
semi-secular Arabia, I'd think he'd gain a lot of popularity here.
Matthew Huntbach
Wood Avens
<john...@frag.lineone.net> wrote:
>Laura F. Spira wrote:
>> Surely you've eaten a Lincoln biscuit?
>>
>> http://www.nicecupofteaandasitdown.com/biscuits/previous.php3?item=20
>
>I've eaten many. But I didn't know they had a special name.
When I was a child (and I can'be that much older than you), surely all
biscuits had names. I can't think of one that was "just a biscuit".
Even today, there are remarkably few, and those mostly found in
assortment boxes. In the old days, they were delivered from the
grocer's in a paper bag; but the ones you'll find on the rolls on the
supermarket shelves today have the same names.
--
Katy Jennison
spamtrap: remove the first two letters after the @
Donna Richoux
> On Mon, 11 Jul 2005, John Dean wrote:
>
> > The Garibaldi biscuit, or squashed fly biscuit as it has been known to
> > generations of school-children, was, according to the usual reliable
> > sources, invented in 1861 and named after the Italian patriot. Some
> > on-line sources suggest the name was applied because Garibaldi had made
> > a visit to England and was well received. From what I can see, however,
> > his visit to England was in 1864 and he wasn't that well received
> > anyway.
Can you tell us why you thought so? Anyway, his worldwide fame
apparently began with his victories in 1860.
>
> Garibaldi was widely admired in 19th-century England. He was seen as
> a liberal reformer who was pushing through the sort of reforms that
> had already taken place in Britain. He was also seen as an enemy of
> the papacy, at a time when anti-Catholicism of the sort we now only
> associate with the likes of Ian Paisley was normal throughout England.
> If the biscuit was invented in 1861, it would have been at the height
> of Garibaldi's fame, and in those days it wasn't unusual to name things
> after famous and admired people.
While I was looking for any clues to this question, I came across this,
on a page by the Nottingham football club fans. It supports the notion
of a certain Garibaldi mania in England:
http://u-reds.com/Fans/RobRaynhamPage.asp
The Garibaldi Reds
The Forest Football Club was formed in 1865. The
previous year there had been a triumphant visit to
the UK by Giuseppe Garibaldi which had captured the
public imagination. Garibaldi was an Italian general
and had been a prime mover in the unification of
Italy in 1861 - before then it had been for
centuries a series of Nation States (Lombardy,
Tuscany, Piedmont etc). Unification brought King
Emmanuel II to the throne of a united Italy and
Garibaldi achieved fame because of his role.
Garibaldi himself had the reputation of being a
daring and imaginative military tactician, winning
many battles with swift movements of his army from
one location to another. His army wore scarlet red
shirts and unsurprisingly were referred to as
Garibaldi's redshirts. The young men who formed the
Forest Football Club wanted in some way to associate
themselves with the daring, tactical imagination and
swiftness of Garibaldi and thus adopted red as the
club colour in honour of the man himself and his
brave redshirts. After the club's inaugural meeting
the Treasurer, Wm. Brown, was dispatched into the
town with sufficient funds to purchase a set of
scarlet red silk caps, with tassels, from Committee
member Chas. Daft's drapery store. From then on the
players wore these caps at matches to represent and
identify the Forest club. Thus did the colour red
become forever associated with Nottingham Forest
Football Club.
That bit about knowing the treasurer's name and the instructions makes
me feel this is based on documentation, not hot air -- um, oral
tradition.
--
Best -- Donna Richoux
irwell
Paris has a Garibaldi Boulevard.
the Omrud
> Paris has a Garibaldi Boulevard.
Does it have squashed currants embedded in it?
Harvey Van Sickle
> irwell spake thusly:
>
>> Paris has a Garibaldi Boulevard.
>
> Does it have squashed currants embedded in it?
That takes the biscuit.
Laura F. Spira
Doesn't *every* biscuit have a name? (I feel I'm wandering into Old
Possum territory here.)
John Dean
Well, they had names in the sense that there were ways to identify the
kind of biscuit you wanted. But some of the names were uninspired,
uninspiring and, frankly, too generic to have any significance. I cite
here the "ginger biscuit" and the "shortbread biscuit". I see that the
Lincoln biscuit is a kind of shortbread, but I would never have needed
to identify them because I would never have to looked to lay hands on
one as long as there were visible alternatives. The "Lincoln" biscuit,
for me, could as easily be categorised as "the biscuit still on the
plate in a meeting after all the other biscuits have been eaten". Not to
say that no-one *would* eat it, bit the jammy dodgers, bourbons and pink
wafery things had to have gone first. There's another generic name - the
custard cream.
We used to get most of our biscuits via a neighbour who worked at
McVities where staff were allowed to bring out substandard product for a
nominal price. This may (or may not) be where the phrase "face like a
bag of broken biscuits" originated.
--
John Dean
Oxford
Pat Durkin
"Laura F. Spira" <la...@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> wrote in message
news:dau3b7$584$1...@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
> John Dean wrote:
> > Laura F. Spira wrote:
> >
> >>John Dean wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>The Garibaldi biscuit, or squashed fly biscuit as it has been known
> >>>to generations of school-children, was, according to the usual
> >>>reliable sources, invented in 1861 and named after the Italian
> >>>patriot.
Garibaldi biscuit on Wikipedia:
. . .It consists of currants squashed between two thin, rectangular
biscuits - a currant sandwich. It has a golden brown, glazed appearance.
Garibaldi biscuits are also known by the dysphemically-inclined as squashed
fly biscuits, because the squashed fruit do look a bit like dead flies. . .
> >>
> >>Surely you've eaten a Lincoln biscuit?
> >>
> >>http://www.nicecupofteaandasitdown.com/biscuits/previous.php3?item=20
> >>
> >
Someone had posted that wonderful site earlier. What an appetite it rouses!
> >
> > I've eaten many. But I didn't know they had a special name.
>
> Doesn't *every* biscuit have a name? (I feel I'm wandering into Old
> Possum territory here.)
I couldn't find a very good picture of the Dutch windmill cookie, but I
would think these shortbread cookies would be familiar in UK. Many times
they had sliced almonds on them. This was just one brand:
"Bremner Inc. Issues Recall of Stop & Shop Brand Dutch Windmill Cookies."
That is manufactured in St. Louis, MO, but others can be imported.
There were many recipes, some with the correctly shaped cookie cutter, and
others with improvized [stet] (surprise! In AmE the word is spelled with
"ised") quarter rounds placed in a "pinwheel" .
We would buy a specific kind of ginger cookie called a "ginger snap", which
was quite spicy and crisp. It has amazed me to see German chefs on TV using
these as thickeners in soups and sauces. The other kind of ginger cookie,
to us children, had to be "gingerbread men (boys)", and were home made.
Peanut butter cookies weren't properly cooked (or bought) if they didn't
have the characteristic forked impression (most often crossed fork tines) to
press the ball of dough into an almost flat and round shape. These were
usually doughy/chewy, but could get a bit crisp if left too long in the
oven.
Mike Lyle
Because (Ray O'Hara may not like this, but I'm not sure of his
precise position on post-Napoleonic Italy) he was a very popular
figure in Victorian England. Scout around, and be prepared for
astonishment at how many pubs etc were, and even are, named after
him.
The squashed-fly biscuit strikes a recent chord. For some reason I
decided last month that I wanted some, and skinflintily bought
Tesco's own brand. They were so seriously dull and minimally
curranted that I actually returned them and got my money back. I
repaired to the version offered by a Major Manufacturer, only to find
that they were exactly the same. Forty or more years had, it seemed,
amplified the proportion of fruit beyond reality. Thank God, ginger
nuts are still OK.
--
Mike.
Robin Bignall
wrote:
This story is confirmed by a link
http://www.nottinghamforest.premiumtv.co.uk/page/History/0,,10308~64339,00.html
from Forest's official web site.
I don't seem to be able to cut and paste from that site.
--
Robin
Hoddesdon, England
Paul Wolff
<bill...@hotmail.com> writes
(blessed though he may be) with a large enough production to get taken
up by a supermarket.
Do water biscuits have any other function than to carry cheese? Bath
Olivers are highly spoken of by the well-heeled.
ObBritishCheese: can there be two Great British Cheese Festivals this
year? The traditional Blenheim event is (was?) in September, where
Carr's water biscuits are freely dispensed:
http://www.oxford.gov.uk/tourism/events.cfm/action/detail/event/499/
but this may have been overtaken by an upstart in Cheltenham in October:
http://www.regionalfoodanddrink.co.uk/events/addnl_info.php?id=207
Bargains are to be found on the Sunday afternoons, when stallholders are
clearing out.
--
Paul
Experto credite.
Paul Wolff
<docr...@ntlworld.com> writes
known as the Garibaldi Gunners.
--
Paul
In bocca al Lupo!
Charles Riggs
<boun...@two.wolff.co.uk> wrote:
>Do water biscuits have any other function than to carry cheese?
With only 0.4 g of protein and 3.0 g of carbohydrates per Carr's
biscuit, not a major one. Then again, there are only traces of
saturated fat and sodium in them, according to the label. Total fat is
5.9 g per 100 g of biscuits, quite low when comparing Carr's biscuits
to similar products. The sugar content per 100g -- more biscuits than
any normal man would have at a sitting -- is a mere 1.9 g; hardly
worth mentioning, is it?
--
Charles Riggs
Robin Bignall
<boun...@two.wolff.co.uk> wrote:
>In message <4jp5d19n32g0kue9u...@4ax.com>, Robin Bignall
><docr...@ntlworld.com> writes
[details of how Nottingham Forest acquired their red shirts]
>>This story is confirmed by a link
>>http://www.nottinghamforest.premiumtv.co.uk/page/History/0,,10308~64339,00.html
>>from Forest's official web site.
>>I don't seem to be able to cut and paste from that site.
>>
>And the Forest red jerseys were later adopted by Arsenal, not widely
>known as the Garibaldi Gunners.
My father, who was a Forest season ticket holder all of his life,
believed that Arsenal had lent red shirts to Forest for one of
Forests's earliest games, and that they carried on using red in
gratitude. Sadly, or possibly luckily, he died in the 1960s long
before such things as web sites and facts could destroy his illusions.
But that version of the story, and the warm relation between Forest
and Arsenal, definitely existed round about 1950.
--
Robin
Hoddesdon, England
Linz
"Will" <bill...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1121077370.6...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> You need to be careful with water biscuits. Some varieties
> (possibly including Carr's) contain hydrogenated vegetable oil
> which, together with its bastard love child partially hydrogenated
> vegetable oil, is a Bad Thing and must on no account whatsoever
> pass your lips.
>
> I find Nairn's Oatcakes are also a fine accompaniment to all
> cheeses, particularly Keen's or Montgomery's Cheddar, the two very
> best makers.
The bonus to both these, and to many other good-for-cheese crackers,
is that small children can be persuaded that they are the Best Biscuit
Around. YoungBloke is very excited to get a half an oatcake to see him
through the hour's journey home from nursery.
Linz
"Paul Wolff" <boun...@two.wolff.co.uk> wrote in message
news:uK9oonyJ...@fpwolff.demon.co.uk...
> Do water biscuits have any other function than to carry cheese?
> Bath Olivers are highly spoken of by the well-heeled.
They come in handy when you're suffering with morning sickness.
the Omrud
We gave Daughter no sugary food as a baby until we relented while on
holiday in Rhodes when she was nearly 2. It seemed to us that
denying her the heavenly chocolate cake served at the quay-front
cafes would be tantamount to child abuse. She was utterly astonished
and finished off by picking up the plate and licking it clean. I
have photographs.
irwell
wrote:
>On 11 Jul 2005, the Omrud wrote
>
>> irwell spake thusly:
>>
>>> Paris has a Garibaldi Boulevard.
>>
>> Does it have squashed currants embedded in it?
>
>That takes the biscuit.
Petit pain avec mouche morte.
Jitze Couperus
>The Garibaldi biscuit, or squashed fly biscuit as it has been known to
>generations of school-children, was, according to the usual reliable
>sources, invented in 1861 and named after the Italian patriot. Some
>on-line sources suggest the name was applied because Garibaldi had made
>a visit to England and was well received. From what I can see, however,
>his visit to England was in 1864 and he wasn't that well received
>anyway.
>So - anyone confirm the biscuit was named after the famous Italian
>General and American candle maker? (I'd be amazed if it wasn't).
>Part two - Why? Why not the Lincoln biscuit, the Grant biscuit, the
>Sherman biscuit?
Not sure they exist in Rightpondia, but here in Merrica we have
something called a "Fig Newton" which fits approximately into the
same taxonomic space as the Garibaldi.
I am not overly familiar with this delicacy, but a couple of questions
arise:
Does a Fig Newton actually contain bits of fig, or is it merely a
re-branding of the venerable Garibaldi?
And which Newton was it named after?
- He of gravitational attraction fame?
- Newton Abbot?
- Wayne Newton?
Jitze
Frances Kemmish
>
> Not sure they exist in Rightpondia, but here in Merrica we have
> something called a "Fig Newton" which fits approximately into the
> same taxonomic space as the Garibaldi.
>
Fig Newtons are nothing like Garibaldi biscuits ("squashed fly
cemeteries", my husband calls them). I have had "Fig Rolls" in England,
which are essentially the same as "Fig Newtons".
> I am not overly familiar with this delicacy, but a couple of questions
> arise:
>
> Does a Fig Newton actually contain bits of fig, or is it merely a
> re-branding of the venerable Garibaldi?
>
Don't know about the figs, but they're not Garibaldis
> And which Newton was it named after?
>
> - He of gravitational attraction fame?
>
> - Newton Abbot?
>
> - Wayne Newton?
>
It's a mystery.
Fran
Paul Wolff
>On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 00:20:03 +0100, Paul Wolff
><boun...@two.wolff.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>In message <4jp5d19n32g0kue9u...@4ax.com>, Robin Bignall
>><docr...@ntlworld.com> writes
>
>[details of how Nottingham Forest acquired their red shirts]
>
>>>This story is confirmed by a link
>>>http://www.nottinghamforest.premiumtv.co.uk/page/History/0,,10308~6433
>>>9,00.html
>>>from Forest's official web site.
>>>I don't seem to be able to cut and paste from that site.
>>>
>>And the Forest red jerseys were later adopted by Arsenal, not widely
>>known as the Garibaldi Gunners.
>
>My father, who was a Forest season ticket holder all of his life,
>believed that Arsenal had lent red shirts to Forest for one of
>Forests's earliest games, and that they carried on using red in
>gratitude. Sadly, or possibly luckily, he died in the 1960s long
>before such things as web sites and facts could destroy his illusions.
>But that version of the story, and the warm relation between Forest
>and Arsenal, definitely existed round about 1950.
http://www.arseweb.com/other/faaq.html#6 refers to a donation of kit by
Forest, but
http://www.arsenal.com/article.asp?article=204740&lid=AboutArsenal&sub=Ki
t+Design&navlid=the+club&sublid=&Title=Kit+Design
says that many Forest players were still wearing it when it arrived.
Donna Richoux
>
> Does a Fig Newton actually contain bits of fig, or is it merely a
> re-branding of the venerable Garibaldi?
A picture of a fig newton here, although I think they pasted on more
seeds for some mysterious reason:
http://waynesword.palomar.edu/images/fig1.gif
>
> And which Newton was it named after?
>
> - He of gravitational attraction fame?
>
> - Newton Abbot?
>
> - Wayne Newton?
>
All you want to know about the invention and naming of Fig Newtons:
http://inventors.about.com/od/fstartinventions/a/Fig_Newton.htm
After I moved to Boston, I used to make jokes about all the different
villages within the boundaries of nearby Newton - Newton Center, Newton
Corner, Newton Upper Falls, Newton Highlands, Newtonville, West Newton -
by rattling them off and adding, "Old Newton, New Newton, Isaac Newton,
Fig Newton." Now, after all these years, I learn there was an actual
connection.
R H Draney
>
>Does a Fig Newton actually contain bits of fig, or is it merely a
>re-branding of the venerable Garibaldi?
>
>And which Newton was it named after?
>
> - He of gravitational attraction fame?
>
> - Newton Abbot?
>
> - Wayne Newton?
The fig is in the middle, as is the Newton in Olivia Newton-John....
QED....r
Areff
> Not sure they exist in Rightpondia, but here in Merrica we have
> something called a "Fig Newton" which fits approximately into the
> same taxonomic space as the Garibaldi.
Is that what the Garibaldi is like? I've been picturing something very
different.
Interestingly enough, the fig newton is supposed to contain bits of bees
and such.
> And which Newton was it named after?
>
> - He of gravitational attraction fame?
>
> - Newton Abbot?
>
> - Wayne Newton?
None of the above. As I'm sure Ray O'Hara can tell you, the fig newton is
named for Newton, Massachusetts, a suburb of Boston.
The generic name appears to be "fig bars". Nowadays there are also "apple
newtons" containing fake apple filling, etc.
the Omrud
> Jitze Couperus <couperus-e...@znet.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > Does a Fig Newton actually contain bits of fig, or is it merely a
> > re-branding of the venerable Garibaldi?
>
> A picture of a fig newton here, although I think they pasted on more
> seeds for some mysterious reason:
> http://waynesword.palomar.edu/images/fig1.gif
> >
That's a fig roll. Still fairly big over here.
the Omrud
> Jitze Couperus wrote:
> > Not sure they exist in Rightpondia, but here in Merrica we have
> > something called a "Fig Newton" which fits approximately into the
> > same taxonomic space as the Garibaldi.
>
> Is that what the Garibaldi is like? I've been picturing something very
> different.
No. Nothing like that. There are several images here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/cambridgeshire/e_break/biscuit_test/biscuit_test
.shtml
http://tinyurl.com/dv44o
> Interestingly enough, the fig newton is supposed to contain bits of bees
> and such.
Wasps. Bees don't pollenate the fig, it's tiny wasps.
Areff
> Areff spake thusly:
>
>> Jitze Couperus wrote:
>> > Not sure they exist in Rightpondia, but here in Merrica we have
>> > something called a "Fig Newton" which fits approximately into the
>> > same taxonomic space as the Garibaldi.
>>
>> Is that what the Garibaldi is like? I've been picturing something very
>> different.
>
> No. Nothing like that. There are several images here:
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/cambridgeshire/e_break/biscuit_test/biscuit_test
> .shtml
> http://tinyurl.com/dv44o
Oh. Those look something like what I think we call, or used to call,
"raisin cookies". I haven't had such things in 25 years or so.
Unfortunately, Google-imaging for "raisin cookies" just brings up pictures
of the familiar oatmeal raisin cookie. What I'm remembering are square
and relatively flat cookies with an almost graham-crackery exterior and a
layer of raisin substance as the 'filling'. Sandwichlike in the
metaphorical sense that Oreos and any cookie with two outside layers and
a middle filling can be called sandwichlike. But the exterior was
relatively soft and not crispy -- I'm not sure if the Garibaldi biscuit
differs in this important respect.
Robin Bignall
<boun...@two.wolff.co.uk> wrote:
The official Arsenal Football Club site shows that it was formed in
1886, while Forest started in 1865, so it does look as though the red
shirts went from Nottingham to London rather than vice-versa.
--
Robin
Hoddesdon, England
Peter Moylan
>We used to get most of our biscuits via a neighbour who worked at
>McVities where staff were allowed to bring out substandard product for a
>nominal price. This may (or may not) be where the phrase "face like a
>bag of broken biscuits" originated.
Many's the time I was sent, as a child, to the corner shop to buy
sixpence' worth of broken biscuits. They were an excellent deal for
families with many children and not much money. In those days the
shops kept their biscuits in large tins, and there were always enough
leftovers in the bottom of the tin to make "broken biscuits" a
standard shop item.
Now that I think of it, many shops in those days found uses for their
leftovers. A tailor's shop was a good source of scrap fabric for
school projects. Butchers used to keep bones and various bits of
offal to sell to dog and cat owners. It kept the animals healthy,
it was cheap for the owners, and it was one of the reasons people
got by with much smaller garbage bins than we need today.
--
Peter Moylan peter at ee dot newcastle dot edu dot au
http://eepjm.newcastle.edu.au (OS/2 and eCS information and software)
Areff
> Areff spake thusly:
>> "raisin cookies". I haven't had such things in 25 years or so.
>>
>> Unfortunately, Google-imaging for "raisin cookies" just brings up pictures
>> of the familiar oatmeal raisin cookie. What I'm remembering are square
>> and relatively flat cookies with an almost graham-crackery exterior and a
>> layer of raisin substance as the 'filling'. Sandwichlike in the
>> metaphorical sense that Oreos and any cookie with two outside layers and
>> a middle filling can be called sandwichlike. But the exterior was
>> relatively soft and not crispy -- I'm not sure if the Garibaldi biscuit
>> differs in this important respect.
>
> layers are indistinct. In an Oreo or Custard Creme, the layers can
> be separated with a thin plane, but in the Garibaldi, the currants
> are embedded in the centre of the biscuit, but not as a clear layer.
I think that's how the 'raisin cookie' was too, despite my referring to it
as sandwichlike. You couldn't take it apart, certainly, the way you can
an Oreo (or Hydrox [say, where is ...]).
> It's also important to note that the Garibaldi comes in sheets of a
> few biscuits (6?) or rather as a sheet of biscuitty material which is
> partly serrated to enable the biscuit eater to break the sheet into
> discrete biscuits. You will see on the photos above that the edges
> of each biscuit is rough this is because it has been broken from its
> neighbour.
I think that's how raisin cookies were sold too.
I checked the cookie aisle of my local supermarket but couldn't find
anything that remotely resembled these things I remember as 'raisin
cookies'. They must have gone the way of Buckwheat cereal and Freshen-Up
gum.
the Omrud
The Garibaldi is fairly soft. Another important feature is that the
layers are indistinct. In an Oreo or Custard Creme, the layers can
be separated with a thin plane, but in the Garibaldi, the currants
are embedded in the centre of the biscuit, but not as a clear layer.
In some places, the top biscuit layer touches the bottom biscuit
layer.
It's also important to note that the Garibaldi comes in sheets of a
few biscuits (6?) or rather as a sheet of biscuitty material which is
partly serrated to enable the biscuit eater to break the sheet into
discrete biscuits. You will see on the photos above that the edges
of each biscuit is rough this is because it has been broken from its
neighbour.
--
David (going on holiday this afternoon)
Philip Eden
"Peter Moylan" <pe...@seagoon.newcastle.edu.au> wrote in message
news:db21l6$8nm$1...@news.newcastle.edu.au...
> John Dean turpitued:
>
>>We used to get most of our biscuits via a neighbour who worked at
>>McVities where staff were allowed to bring out substandard product for a
>>nominal price. This may (or may not) be where the phrase "face like a
>>bag of broken biscuits" originated.
>
> Many's the time I was sent, as a child, to the corner shop to buy
> sixpence' worth of broken biscuits. They were an excellent deal for
> families with many children and not much money. In those days the
> shops kept their biscuits in large tins, and there were always enough
> leftovers in the bottom of the tin to make "broken biscuits" a
> standard shop item.
>
biscuits was always "But you have to break them to eat them."
Philip Eden
Sara Lorimer
> I checked the cookie aisle of my local supermarket but couldn't find
> anything that remotely resembled these things I remember as 'raisin
> cookies'. They must have gone the way of Buckwheat cereal and Freshen-Up
> gum.
The gum, at least, is still available:
http://www.hometownfavorites.com/shop/candy_cat.asp?c=4&p=1&id=777&newp=
Ewww. I remember that stuff. I don't approve of gum at any time, but
oozing gum should be banned.
--
SML
R H Draney
>
>The gum, at least, is still available:
>http://www.hometownfavorites.com/shop/candy_cat.asp?c=4&p=1&id=777&newp=
>
>Ewww. I remember that stuff. I don't approve of gum at any time, but
>oozing gum should be banned.
Did they use the "I didn't know the gum was loaded!" ad on your side?...r
Will
Linz wrote:
[..]
> The bonus to both these, and to many other good-for-cheese crackers,
> is that small children can be persuaded that they are the Best Biscuit
> Around. YoungBloke is very excited to get a half an oatcake to see him
> through the hour's journey home from nursery.
Don't forget rice cakes! My version(s) of YoungBloke and YoungerBloke
both clamour for them when OldBloke gets home, hot and weary from the
undulating cycle ride from work, and refills his glycogen stores with
said cakes. ObAUE - are rice cakes strictly cakes? Aren't they more
like biscuits (AmE "cookies") which to me implies crunch, where cake
implies...well, not crunch.
Will.
Sara Lorimer
> Don't forget rice cakes! My version(s) of YoungBloke and YoungerBloke
> both clamour for them when OldBloke gets home, hot and weary from the
> undulating cycle ride from work, and refills his glycogen stores with
> said cakes. ObAUE - are rice cakes strictly cakes? Aren't they more
> like biscuits (AmE "cookies") which to me implies crunch, where cake
> implies...well, not crunch.
I would say they're closer to crackers than cookies, unless you're
getting the sweetened kind. But "rice crackers" are something other than
"rice cakes," so....
--
SML
Areff
I'd say that rice cakes are not cookies and are not crackers, and aren't
particularly close to either of those categories.
They are 'cakes' only in the broadest sense of 'cake'.
I don't know from BrE 'biscuit', but 'cookie' to me does not
necessarily imply crunch -- many cookies are soft. 'Cake' certainly
implies no crunch (ignoring special categories like some
varieties of the ancient Tom Carvel ice cream cake).
Is there such a thing as a 'soft biscuit' in BrE, and, if not, what is the
BrE equivalent of a soft cookie?
Mike Lyle
[...]
> Do water biscuits have any other function than to carry cheese?
Bath
> Olivers are highly spoken of by the well-heeled.
I don't know about the well-heeled bit! but my mother always has
both. I've decided over the years that I don't really like Bath
Olivers. She speaks nostalgically of captain's biscuits, which you
can't get over here, and which I don't remember; I've never ventured
to try a recipe, but one on the Web looks rather like army hard tack,
which is very good.
--
Mike.
Will
I guess you're right. A Fig Roll is a biscuit, notionally, but is not
crunchy. So what is the difference between a cookie/bicuit and a cake?
Will.
Donna Richoux
> I guess you're right. A Fig Roll is a biscuit, notionally, but is not
> crunchy. So what is the difference between a cookie/bicuit and a cake?
I see the road unrolling before us that is paved with all the names of
baked goods.
If we go down this road yet again, would someone promise to turn it into
some sort of FAQ-reference? Like the Great Britain/England pages? I'm
sure everyone would kibitz helpfully.
Meanwhile, I know we've already found pictures for a lot of these
things. The Cook's Thesaurus is a decent site with pictures, names, and
some text about a wide variety of foods. For example:
http://www.foodsubs.com/Cookies.html
Areff
> I guess you're right. A Fig Roll is a biscuit, notionally, but is not
> crunchy.
Interestingly enough, the 1914 trademark registration record for "fig
newton" apparently described the product as a "biscuit". More evidence of
the former currency of "biscuit" (in the BrE sort of sense) in AmE, along
with Nabisco (National Biscuit Company).
I hope no one in the UK considers a fig roll a "roll".
> So what is the difference between a cookie/bicuit and a cake?
I think we've discussed this one before. In AmE there's one obvious
difference that might not be applicable to BrE: size. Well, shape
too. Cookies tend to be small; at its largest a cookie might be six
inches in diameter. Moreover, cookies are relatively flat things, though
often less flat than crackers (= BrE "savoury biscuits"?). A cake, using
the primary meaning in AmE which refers to a certain kind of countable
bakery item, is as a rule a large thing, much larger than a cookie, and
significantly taller than a cookie. It is typically softer (more cakelike
in fact) too. There are other differences, but those are a start.
I get the sense that "a cake" can refer to a broader class of things in
BrE, and that small cakes of some sort have remained popular there since
mediaeval times. I'm not sure that those things would be considered cakes
in AmE, but I'm getting out of my depth here.
Cupcakes are pretty close notionally to a miniature cake. Cupcakes should
be distinguished from (American) muffins, which should be distinguished
from AmE "English muffins", which should be distinguished from BrE
muffins, not to mention crumpets.
rban...@shaw.ca
<m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>Cupcakes are pretty close notionally to a miniature cake. Cupcakes should
>be distinguished from (American) muffins, which should be distinguished
>from AmE "English muffins", which should be distinguished from BrE
>muffins, not to mention crumpets.
>
>
Speaking of which I think Taiwan Bill has stopped
grepping for Taiwan or God. Or his latest wife
got him.
Sara Lorimer
> Will wrote:
>
> > I guess you're right. A Fig Roll is a biscuit, notionally, but is not
> > crunchy.
>
> Interestingly enough, the 1914 trademark registration record for "fig
> newton" apparently described the product as a "biscuit". More evidence of
> the former currency of "biscuit" (in the BrE sort of sense) in AmE, along
> with Nabisco (National Biscuit Company).
>
In our household, where they're eaten daily, they're called "fig bars."
They're actually Fig Newmans, but I don't like teaching my kid
brandnames.
--
SML
Areff
> In our household, where they're eaten daily, they're called "fig bars."
> They're actually Fig Newmans, but I don't like teaching my kid
> brandnames.
"Fig bar" is clearly the modern AmE generic for "fig newton" (unless you
consider "fig newton" a de facto generic). I've actually found that the
off-brands are typically better than Fig Newtons themselves -- something
about the outer layer of the product.
Charles Riggs
Franke has been spending time in California on a three-week holiday.
He should be back soon.
--
Charles Riggs
rban...@shaw.ca
He should be where he is needed. They may invade
China any minute.
Paul Wolff
<tr...@euronet.nl> writes
>Will <bill...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I guess you're right. A Fig Roll is a biscuit, notionally, but is not
>> crunchy. So what is the difference between a cookie/bicuit and a cake?
The decisive question is how do they behave when they age. Cakes start
out soft and harden on staling, while biscuits start out hard and soften
on staling. No nonsense about twice cooked.
>I see the road unrolling before us that is paved with all the names of
>baked goods.
>
>If we go down this road yet again, would someone promise to turn it into
>some sort of FAQ-reference? Like the Great Britain/England pages? I'm
>sure everyone would kibitz helpfully.
>
>Meanwhile, I know we've already found pictures for a lot of these
>things. The Cook's Thesaurus is a decent site with pictures, names, and
>some text about a wide variety of foods. For example:
> http://www.foodsubs.com/Cookies.html
>
And there are food lists ad nauseam at
<http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.por
tal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pageLibrary_ShowContent&id=HMCE_CL_000118&prope
rtyType=document#P240_9779>
Thinks: Time for Tiny! http://tinyurl.com/7n3qy
No prizes for working out the connection.
That site has much to catch the imagination. What is a barfi? Is horse
meat exotic? Who eats semi-set alcoholic jellies designed to be
swallowed as cocktails? Where does one go to buy unfermented fruit
juice intended specifically for sacramental purposes?
--
Paul
In bocca al Lupo!
Mike Lyle
> In message <1gzqn8e.193ub2wnsmsgkN%tr...@euronet.nl>, Donna Richoux
> <tr...@euronet.nl> writes
>> Will <bill...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I guess you're right. A Fig Roll is a biscuit, notionally, but
is
>>> not crunchy. So what is the difference between a cookie/bicuit
and
>>> a cake?
>
> The decisive question is how do they behave when they age. Cakes
start
> out soft and harden on staling, while biscuits start out hard and
> soften on staling. No nonsense about twice cooked.
Right, except about "twice cooked". I'd always assumed it meant not
"cooked twice", but "cooked more than usual" -- cf "high-baked". But
Beeton says it meant the kind for ships and other butch applications
were first baked normally, then set to dry out in the hot air in a
space above the oven -- to make sure they were dry enough not to go
mouldy in store.
I think our modern sweet biscuits have acquired the name simply
because they're thin.
>
[...]
> swallowed as cocktails? Where does one go to buy unfermented fruit
> juice intended specifically for sacramental purposes?
My father told, among many an anecdote of greater or lesser
reliability, of a wowser congregation in Oz which used red jelly
crystals dissolved in water; one Sunday the Good Lord arranged
weather cooler than average, and the concoction proved to have set.
--
Mike.
Donna Richoux
> And there are food lists ad nauseam at
>
> <http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.por
> tal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pageLibrary_ShowContent&id=HMCE_CL_000118&prope
> rtyType=document#P240_9779>
>
> Thinks: Time for Tiny! http://tinyurl.com/7n3qy
What a strange list. In ten words or less, what does it mean to
"zero-rate" vs. "standard-rate" something? Is it like tax-exempt -- you
do not charge VAT when you sell these products? It seems so random.
Chocolate cups here, sweetened popcorn there.
Dick Chambers
"Areff wrote
>
> I hope no one in the UK considers a fig roll a "roll".
We don't. A roll, in BrE, is a small item of bread, often eaten as an
accompaniment to soup. Larger rolls, typically about 6" (15 cm) in diameter
and 2" (5 cm) thick, are often used for making sandwiches. These are often
called by the alternative name "breadcake".
We do call fig rolls by exactly that name, and we would not understand what
a US American might mean by a "Fig Newton". Did a fig drop on Isaac's head
while he was pondering in the shade of the tree?
A Yorkshire and Lancashire speciality is the oven-bottom cake, which despite
its "cake" terminology is actually white bread. This is bread dough that has
been baked right at the bottom of the baker's oven, where the heat is less
intense. The baker's motivation is to economise on heat by making good use
of a part of the oven that is often wasted in other parts of the country.
The oven-bottom cake is three-quarters baked in the bakery, and the customer
expects to finish the job of baking later in his own oven at home. The
advantage to the customer is that he can produce his own hot bread, straight
out of the oven onto the dining table. Oven-bottom cakes come in three
sizes. Small, 4" diameter. Medium, 7" diameter. Large, 10" diameter. All
sizes about 2" to 3" thick. Highly recommended if you ever visit northern
England and have access to your own home oven.
---------------------------------------
>
>> So what is the difference between a cookie/bicuit and a cake?
>
> I think we've discussed this one before. In AmE there's one obvious
> difference that might not be applicable to BrE: size. Well, shape
> too. Cookies tend to be small; at its largest a cookie might be six
> inches in diameter. Moreover, cookies are relatively flat things, though
> often less flat than crackers (= BrE "savoury biscuits"?).
---------------------------------------
In the last twenty years, cookies have become well established in Britain
and the word has become incorporated into our language. One of the better
ideas to have arrived in this country from the USA. Every covered shopping
mall has a stall selling chocolate, ginger, spiced or plain cookies,
soft-centred but with a slightly crunchy outer skin, usually about 6" in
diameter and 0.5 to 0.75" thick. The larger supermarkets also sell packets
of cookies, fresh-baked each day.
Richard Chambers Leeds UK.
Paul Wolff
<tr...@euronet.nl> writes
>Paul Wolff <boun...@two.wolff.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>> And there are food lists ad nauseam at
>>
>> <http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.por
>> tal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pageLibrary_ShowContent&id=HMCE_CL_000118&prope
>> rtyType=document#P240_9779>
>>
>> Thinks: Time for Tiny! http://tinyurl.com/7n3qy
>
>What a strange list. In ten words or less, what does it mean to
>"zero-rate" vs. "standard-rate" something?
All are subject to tax, at zero or seventeenandahalf percent. There are
some other intermediate rates.
I'll trade a one-word seventeenandahalf against your 'less'.
>Is it like tax-exempt -- you
>do not charge VAT when you sell these products? It seems so random.
>Chocolate cups here, sweetened popcorn there.
>
I think the rationale, if rationale there be, is that luxuries (treats)
are taxed in full, while necessities (sustenance) are taxed at the
minimum.
There's a point to a zero tax rate, but I forget what it is. All I can
think of for now is that the values of zero-rated items are included in
the total sales box on the tax return, but exempt items (interest, for
example) aren't, and this is significant because VAT has to be accounted
for above a certain minimum annual sales value (around GBP 50-60k).
John Holmes
> Will wrote:
>
>> I guess you're right. A Fig Roll is a biscuit, notionally, but is
>> not crunchy.
>
> Interestingly enough, the 1914 trademark registration record for "fig
> newton" apparently described the product as a "biscuit". More
> evidence of the former currency of "biscuit" (in the BrE sort of
> sense) in AmE, along with Nabisco (National Biscuit Company).
Was it the case that the scone-like biscuit was a Southern usage and the
other a northern one? If so, it is interesting that it was the Southern
meaning that won out.
--
Regards
John
for mail: my initials plus a u e
at tpg dot com dot au
Matthew Huntbach
The rule in the UK is that food which is a staple part of meals is
exempt from the standard 17.5% national sales tax i.e. it is
zero-rated. Confectionery and snacks eaten outside meals, however, are
not exempt i.e. they are standard rated. From this stems all this
detail trying to establish just what category various items fall into.
Matthew Huntbach
Areff
> Areff wrote:
>> Will wrote:
>>
>>> I guess you're right. A Fig Roll is a biscuit, notionally, but is
>>> not crunchy.
>>
>> Interestingly enough, the 1914 trademark registration record for "fig
>> newton" apparently described the product as a "biscuit". More
>> evidence of the former currency of "biscuit" (in the BrE sort of
>> sense) in AmE, along with Nabisco (National Biscuit Company).
>
> Was it the case that the scone-like biscuit was a Southern usage and the
> other a northern one?
I believe so, and that is interesting. I think the scone-like biscuit has
become relatively nationalized (thanks in part to Kentucky Fried Chicken
[nka "KFC"]) but I, for one, still think of it as a Southern-origin thing.
I don't know if the two terms ever really competed, however. Maybe
"cookie/cracker biscuit" died out before Southern "scone biscuit" went
national.
Also note that cookie/cracker "biscuit" does exist in my passive
vocabulary, and not just as a BrE term. I think of it as referring to
certain sorts of cookies.
Matti Lamprhey
It's confusing to use "exempt" as a synonym for "zero-rated", though.
Here's an example where the difference can be important. Consider a
building contractor who builds and sells new houses and also buys
existing houses to repair and sell. The sale of a new house is
zero-rated for VAT, whilst that of an existing house is exempt. The
contractor will be charged VAT for many of the goods and services he
uses in both types of activity, but he can only reclaim the VAT charged
on those which are used in the building of his new houses. The VAT he
incurs in the repairs will have to be built into the price he charges
for the existing houses.
Matti
Mike Lyle
As good a moment as any to mention -- as I did at least one of the
other times we went round this mulberry bush -- that if you overcook
plain scones (experto crede) you get something very like the kind of
biscuit they used to take on expeditions. I can't easily believe this
a coincidence. I'm confident that I'd be able to make army-ration
biscuits on, at most, the third attempt (why weren't the things
wholemeal?).
--
Mike.
Wood Avens
<mike_l...@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>As good a moment as any to mention -- as I did at least one of the
>other times we went round this mulberry bush -- that if you overcook
>plain scones (experto crede) you get something very like the kind of
>biscuit they used to take on expeditions. I can't easily believe this
>a coincidence. I'm confident that I'd be able to make army-ration
>biscuits on, at most, the third attempt (why weren't the things
>wholemeal?).
What era of army rations are we talking about here? Are these the
same sort of biscuits as ship's biscuits or "hard tack"? You're sure
they were made of refined flour?
Just checking these parameters before chancing my arm with any
speculative answers.
--
Katy Jennison
spamtrap: remove the first two letters after the @
irwell
<mike_l...@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrote:
I call them King Alfreds, after the Saxon hero who was supposed
to watch over the scones for his landlady.
Mike Lyle
The ones I've eaten -- with some relish -- were made of white flour.
Oblong with the corners cut off, and dotted with regular pinpricks. I
don't know from the Navy ones. (Beeton 1861 and unaltered 1906 say
ships' biscuits are made from wheat flour from which only the
coarsest bran has been removed, while "captain's biscuits" are made
from "finer flour". I guess this means the old ones were wholemeal.)
--
Mike.
Mike Lyle
> On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 20:42:14 +0100, "Mike Lyle"
> <mike_l...@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> As good a moment as any to mention -- as I did at least one of the
>> other times we went round this mulberry bush -- that if you
overcook
>> plain scones (experto crede) you get something very like the kind
of
>> biscuit they used to take on expeditions. I can't easily believe
this
>> a coincidence. I'm confident that I'd be able to make army-ration
>> biscuits on, at most, the third attempt (why weren't the things
>> wholemeal?).
>
> I call them King Alfreds, after the Saxon hero who was supposed
> to watch over the scones for his landlady.
Our own Dear Queen, however, would never have been guilty of such a
culinary gaffe, having been a keen Girl Guide.
--
Mike..
Linz
"the Omrud" <usenet...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1d3df1564...@news.ntlworld.com...
> Linz spake thusly:
>
>>
>> "Will" <bill...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1121077370.6...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>> > I find Nairn's Oatcakes are also a fine accompaniment to all
>> > cheeses, particularly Keen's or Montgomery's Cheddar, the two
>> > very best makers.
>>
>> The bonus to both these, and to many other good-for-cheese
>> crackers, is that small children can be persuaded that they are
>> the Best Biscuit Around. YoungBloke is very excited to get a half
>> an oatcake to see him through the hour's journey home from
>> nursery.
>
> We gave Daughter no sugary food as a baby until we relented while
> on holiday in Rhodes when she was nearly 2. It seemed to us that
> denying her the heavenly chocolate cake served at the quay-front
> cafes would be tantamount to child abuse. She was utterly
> astonished and finished off by picking up the plate and licking it
> clean. I have photographs.
YB gets sugary food - he gets a mini muffin or gingerbread or cake
with his tea at nursery every day - which is why he has been persuaded
that oatcakes are A Good Thing at home. I don't get too precious about
what he eats as long as he gets a healthy variety.
Linz
>
>
> Linz wrote:
> [..]
>> The bonus to both these, and to many other good-for-cheese
>> crackers, is that small children can be persuaded that they are
>> the Best Biscuit Around. YoungBloke is very excited to get a half
>> an oatcake to see him through the hour's journey home from
>> nursery.
>
> YoungerBloke both clamour for them when OldBloke gets home, hot
> and weary from the undulating cycle ride from work, and refills
> his glycogen stores with said cakes. ObAUE - are rice cakes
> strictly cakes? Aren't they more like biscuits (AmE "cookies")
> which to me implies crunch, where cake implies...well, not crunch.
Oh, he gets rice cakes too, but has a tendency to crumble them into
their constituent grains and then abandon them.
Richard Bollard
<mike_l...@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>Paul Wolff wrote:
>> In message <1gzqn8e.193ub2wnsmsgkN%tr...@euronet.nl>, Donna Richoux
>> <tr...@euronet.nl> writes
>>> Will <bill...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I guess you're right. A Fig Roll is a biscuit, notionally, but
>is
>>>> not crunchy. So what is the difference between a cookie/bicuit
>and
>>>> a cake?
>>
>> The decisive question is how do they behave when they age. Cakes
>start
>> out soft and harden on staling, while biscuits start out hard and
>> soften on staling. No nonsense about twice cooked.
>
>Right, except about "twice cooked". I'd always assumed it meant not
>"cooked twice", but "cooked more than usual" -- cf "high-baked". But
>Beeton says it meant the kind for ships and other butch applications
>were first baked normally, then set to dry out in the hot air in a
>space above the oven -- to make sure they were dry enough not to go
>mouldy in store.
>
One of the few things we now have that is twice cooked by definition
is toast. Once to make it bread and twice to make it toast.
So, toast is biscuits, OK?
--
Richard Bollard
Canberra, Australia
Pat Durkin
"John Holmes" <see sig> wrote in message
news:42d8fc9c$1...@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
> Areff wrote:
> > Will wrote:
> >
> >> I guess you're right. A Fig Roll is a biscuit, notionally, but is
> >> not crunchy.
> >
> > Interestingly enough, the 1914 trademark registration record for "fig
> > newton" apparently described the product as a "biscuit". More
> > evidence of the former currency of "biscuit" (in the BrE sort of
> > sense) in AmE, along with Nabisco (National Biscuit Company).
>
> Was it the case that the scone-like biscuit was a Southern usage and the
> other a northern one? If so, it is interesting that it was the Southern
> meaning that won out.
>
southern. It was more likely universal, and still refers to home-cooked
biscuits. (When was baking powder invented?) Our mother made them
frequently to serve as a base for gravy of any kind as well as creamed
chipped beef, creamed cod, creamed tuna, salmon (in cream sauce or as a
patty). The southern biscuit usage is most recognized, in my experience,
when served in a meal as "biscuits and gravy", the gravy being primarily the
white gravy with the pork sausage cooked into it.
Small square (2 1/2" on the side) bread rolls are frequently baked in
rectangular or square pans and sold all stuck together in "flats". We also
call them biscuits, whether homemade or "bought". They are an almost
universally served item in the bread baskets presented with salads at many
restaurants. They are frequently accompanied by packets of saltines,
variously flavored bread sticks, and little plastic tubs of butter.
Paul Wolff
<richardbD...@amt.canberra.edu.au> writes
Your very own Dame Nellie's melba toast almost cracks it - thrice cooked
if I had to make it, unless there's a cunning short cut.
Default User
Also twice-baked potatoes.
Brian
Spehro Pefhany
<defaul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
And refried beans.
Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
sp...@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
R H Draney
>
>In message <ev2ud1d2p01pm1b53...@4ax.com>, Richard Bollard
><richardbD...@amt.canberra.edu.au> writes
>>>
>>is toast. Once to make it bread and twice to make it toast.
>>
>>So, toast is biscuits, OK?
>
>Your very own Dame Nellie's melba toast almost cracks it - thrice cooked
>if I had to make it, unless there's a cunning short cut.
Aha!...a new one for the redundancy file: "zwieback biscuit"....r
CDB
"Spehro Pefhany" <spef...@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote in message
news:rp60e1l6ab6e94kvi...@4ax.com...
> On 21 Jul 2005 21:22:32 GMT, the renowned "Default User"
> <defaul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>Richard Bollard wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 15 Jul 2005 23:25:11 +0100, "Mike Lyle"
>>> <mike_l...@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> > Right, except about "twice cooked". I'd always assumed it meant
>>> > not
>>> > "cooked twice", but "cooked more than usual" -- cf "high-baked".
>>> > But
>>> > Beeton says it meant the kind for ships and other butch
>>> > applications
>>> > were first baked normally, then set to dry out in the hot air in
>>> > a
>>> > space above the oven -- to make sure they were dry enough not to
>>> > go
>>> > mouldy in store.
>>> >
>>> One of the few things we now have that is twice cooked by
>>> definition
>>> is toast. Once to make it bread and twice to make it toast.
>>
>>
>>Also twice-baked potatoes.
>>
>>Brian
>
> And refried beans.
OBfussiness: "refritos", in this context just means they get the
living pants fried off them. When we were in Mexico, our cook Emilia
Sánchez, a delightful woman and a good cook too, would put boiled
beans, some water, and lots of oil in a clay pot on a very low gas
flame and leave it there for at least a day, stirring occasionally.
No repetitions of the "frying" were required, nor any improvement on
the result possible.
Pat Durkin
"CDB" <unbe...@sprint.ca> wrote in message
news:cCYDe.8790$EP2....@newscontent-01.sprint.ca...
emphatic repetitive form: something like "requetepequeno"(=itsy bitsy teeny
weeny). I think I have heard it used to describe a relative some
generations beyond "abuelo": requeteabuelo, or something like that.
(requeteviejo)
>
CDB
"Pat Durkin" <durk...@nothome.com> wrote in message
news:NB9Ee.1985$Fk4....@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
bis-cuit class.
sage
> Wood Avens wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 11 Jul 2005 12:34:23 +0100, "John Dean"
>><john...@frag.lineone.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Laura F. Spira wrote:
>>
>>>>Surely you've eaten a Lincoln biscuit?
>>>>
>>>>
>
> http://www.nicecupofteaandasitdown.com/biscuits/previous.php3?item=20
>
>>>I've eaten many. But I didn't know they had a special name.
>>
>>When I was a child (and I can'be that much older than you), surely all
>>biscuits had names. I can't think of one that was "just a biscuit".
>>Even today, there are remarkably few, and those mostly found in
>>assortment boxes. In the old days, they were delivered from the
>>grocer's in a paper bag; but the ones you'll find on the rolls on the
>>supermarket shelves today have the same names.
>
>
> (Snip)
> We used to get most of our biscuits via a neighbour who worked at
> McVities where staff were allowed to bring out substandard product for a
> nominal price. This may (or may not) be where the phrase "face like a
> bag of broken biscuits" originated.
My uncle drove a delivery van for McVities (in Levenshulme, I think). He
was a happy chap... but I don't remember getting any freebies.
Cheers, Sage
sage
> irwell spake thusly:
>
>
>>Paris has a Garibaldi Boulevard.
>
>
> Does it have squashed currants embedded in it?
>
You mean like Eccles cakes do?
Cheers, Sage
Pat Durkin
I just remembered: Great grandpa is usually bisabuelo. I think that gets us
back into the biscuit/triscuit class, right? And I think I have seen or
heard bisbisabuelo.
But refritos in the bis-cuit class? Sure they are. They don't get all eaten
at the first sitdown, do they? Well, like chili and other stews, they are
all the better for having been reheated.
Oh, and chicken/pork/turkey stuffing (dressing) is in the biscuit class, too
( or tris- when reheated). I can recall someone (a Brit) telling me that if
you heat up the cream or other stuff before putting it into a dough or
batter, that makes the finished product bis-cuit, too.
I don't know enough about potting, but I understand that bisque pottery,
even the unglazed stuff, has been twice cooked. But terra cotta hasn't
been.
John Dean
Levenshulme is the place I'm thinking of. My Auntie Vi (no relation)
worked there.
I see from a spot of Googling that the depot is still there.
And that they've turned "broken biscuits" into a commercial venture.
http://www.bits.bris.ac.uk/tjwood/mse/ownbrands1.html
"McVities make most of M & S biscuits. You can shop at the McVities
factory shop i,.e. broken biscuits etc.....and what do you mostly find
there............M&S Biscuits!! "
--
John Dean
Oxford
John Dean
But in the perfect Eccles cake, the currants are neither squashed nor
embedded. You just make a little bag of pastry, drop the currants in
(unsquashed), seal the bag and bake.
--
John Dean
Oxford
CDB
call them daily bread.
TsuiDF
Paul Wolff wrote:
>>
> That site has much to catch the imagination. What is a barfi? Is horse
> meat exotic? Who eats semi-set alcoholic jellies designed to be
> swallowed as cocktails? Where does one go to buy unfermented fruit
> juice intended specifically for sacramental purposes?
I think the answers are: an Indian sweet; not in Belgium; people in
their 20s; and -- a religious supply store? (that last one was
hard)....
and yes, a mini-food-FAQ would be wonderful.
Cheers,
Stephanie
in Brussels (where I once saw horse meat sushi listed on the menu)
CDB
>
[...]
> We must agree to disagree. You call reheated leftovers biscochos; I
> call them daily bread.
I give myself the bizness, in a prophylactic kind of way.
rban...@shaw.ca
All this bissing and trissing reminded me of a brief interchange with
my wife the other day) perhaps you might care to care to comment.
wife
how do *you* say trickuhlah?
me
trickuhlah
wife
(pointing to TV) *he* said trycollar
me
MIT I suppose.
and we went our ways.
Raymond S. Wise
rban...@shaw.ca wrote:
> On Sat, 23 Jul 2005 08:59:09 -0400, "CDB" <unbe...@sprint.ca> wrote:
[...]
> All this bissing and trissing reminded me of a brief interchange with
> my wife the other day) perhaps you might care to care to comment.
>
> wife
> how do *you* say trickuhlah?
> me
> trickuhlah
> wife
> (pointing to TV) *he* said trycollar
> me
> MIT I suppose.
>
> and we went our ways.
For the longest time I pronounced the name of the Japanese anime series
*Trigun* as [tri'gun] [tree-GOON]. Then I realized that the name of the
series was supposted to refer to three guns (It's a science-fiction
series set in a planet much resembling the Old West, and the main
character is a plant who looks human and has guns which appear from his
arms from time to time--not that he wants them to.) So it should be
['traIgVn] "TRY gun," with the "tri-" of "tricycle."
--
Raymond S. Wise
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
E-mail: mplsray @ yahoo . com
Mike Lyle
I don't suppose it's in any way unique, but when I was an unemployed
single parent, one of the children's weekly (or most-weekly) treats
was a big bag of broken biscuits from a repellent and now
swallowed-up place called "Kwik-Save". I used to examine the bags
very carefully to achieve the maximum proportion of chocolate-coateds
for my outlay. I do, just, remember that traditional grocers who
weighed things out used to have a glass-topped tin of broken biscuits
for a low price: at school we used to patronise these in a big way,
which is further confirmation, if any were needed, that a British
boarding-school education trains you for anything (but I haven't
tried prison yet).
--
Mike.
Pat Durkin
<rban...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:hl65e15i85kp0jjb8...@4ax.com...
I am ambivalent with the word. If I am thinking of the French flag,
cockade, etc, I will probably pronounce it as " 'tree co lor". However, if
I wanted to be understood by most of my neighbors and acquaintances and
don't want to stop and explain, I will say " 'try color(ed)", which isn't
all that much shorter, and certainly not clearer than "three-colored".
Three-cornered-hat is another that sometimes appears with "tri-".
rban...@shaw.ca
wrote:
In America the tricycle pronunciation seems to be the one used for the
three-coloured flag. I do not think I ever heard that in England
where I remember the 'tri' to have been not quite the sound in
'treacle' nor yet quite that of 'trick'.
Perhaps the shift to 'countree' from 'countri' for 'country' was just
beginning, though there were relatively few Jamaican immigrants in the
country when I left.