"facts are chiels that winna ding"

[Harrison Hill]

George Galloway in sparkling form in UK Parliament right now: "'Facts
are chiels that winna ding', as we say in Scotland".

http://www.robertburns.org/works/111.shtml

[annily]

Translation into English for us non-Scots?

--
Lifelong resident of Adelaide, South Australia

[James Hogg]

annily wrote:
> On 17.04.13 05:33, Harrison Hill wrote:
>> George Galloway in sparkling form in UK Parliament right now: "'Facts
>> are chiels that winna ding', as we say in Scotland".
>>
>> http://www.robertburns.org/works/111.shtml
>>
>
> Translation into English for us non-Scots?

But facts are fellows that will not be overturned,
And cannot be disputed.

translated from Burns

--
James

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

On Wed, 17 Apr 2013 08:06:27 +0200, James Hogg <Jas....@gOUTmail.com>
wrote:

Did Burns use Scots, Scottish English or a hybrid?

I ask that following an attempt to translate the sentence with the aid
of the Online Scots Dictionary:
http://www.scots-online.org/dictionary/search_scots.asp

It doesn't known "chiel(s)".

It gives "ding" as:
v. To strike, hit, surpass, get the better of.

The translation you quote treats "ding" as a passive form: "be
overturned by something" rather than "overturn something".

--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

[James Hogg]

Peter Duncanson [BrE] wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Apr 2013 08:06:27 +0200, James Hogg <Jas....@gOUTmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> annily wrote:
>>> On 17.04.13 05:33, Harrison Hill wrote:
>>>> George Galloway in sparkling form in UK Parliament right now: "'Facts
>>>> are chiels that winna ding', as we say in Scotland".
>>>>
>>>> http://www.robertburns.org/works/111.shtml
>>>>
>>> Translation into English for us non-Scots?
>> But facts are fellows that will not be overturned,
>> And cannot be disputed.
>>
>> translated from Burns
>
> Did Burns use Scots, Scottish English or a hybrid?
>
> I ask that following an attempt to translate the sentence with the aid
> of the Online Scots Dictionary:
> http://www.scots-online.org/dictionary/search_scots.asp
>
> It doesn't known "chiel(s)".

Strange. I entered "chiel" and it showed the desired result, albeit with
the spelling "chield".

The SND is better: http://www.dsl.ac.uk/dsl/. It gives you this definition:
A man, a young man. Familiarly, a "fellow."

> It gives "ding" as:
> v. To strike, hit, surpass, get the better of.
>
> The translation you quote treats "ding" as a passive form: "be
> overturned by something" rather than "overturn something".

SND adds this:
Occas. intr. to be smashed or shattered

--
James

[CDB]

On 17/04/2013 7:57 AM, James Hogg wrote:

Interesting that the version HH linked to, which defined most of the
non-standard words, had nothing to say about "ding". I suppose it's
related to the (NAmE?) noun for what you find in your car door on
returning to the parking-lot.

Another place to look is the _Scottish Corpus of Texts and Speech_. No
definitions, but there were enough examples of "ding" to give a good
idea of what it meant (strike, beat, defeat, active or passive; evidence
of same).

http://www.scottishcorpus.ac.uk/

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

On Wed, 17 Apr 2013 13:57:20 +0200, James Hogg <Jas....@gOUTmail.com>

wrote:

>Peter Duncanson [BrE] wrote:
>> On Wed, 17 Apr 2013 08:06:27 +0200, James Hogg <Jas....@gOUTmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> annily wrote:
>>>> On 17.04.13 05:33, Harrison Hill wrote:
>>>>> George Galloway in sparkling form in UK Parliament right now: "'Facts
>>>>> are chiels that winna ding', as we say in Scotland".
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.robertburns.org/works/111.shtml
>>>>>
>>>> Translation into English for us non-Scots?
>>> But facts are fellows that will not be overturned,
>>> And cannot be disputed.
>>>
>>> translated from Burns
>>
>> Did Burns use Scots, Scottish English or a hybrid?
>>
>> I ask that following an attempt to translate the sentence with the aid
>> of the Online Scots Dictionary:
>> http://www.scots-online.org/dictionary/search_scots.asp
>>
>> It doesn't known "chiel(s)".
>
>Strange. I entered "chiel" and it showed the desired result, albeit with
>the spelling "chield".

Yes. I saw "chield" but wasn't sure that "chiel" was a variant of
"chield" with a silent d.

>The SND is better: http://www.dsl.ac.uk/dsl/. It gives you this definition:
>A man, a young man. Familiarly, a "fellow."
>

Ah yes. I have now moved the bookmark to the SND much higher in my list
of dictionaries, etc. It had been relegated by more recent interesting
and useful links.

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

This is not the same "ding" as in "Ding-Dong the Witch is Dead".

<darfc>

[annily]

Thanks.

[theg...@gmail.com]

To ding means to let someone down, particularly in the Edinburgh area where you often hear about someone being "dingied" by a boy- or girlfriend, roughly "stood up".

[John Dunlop]

theg...@gmail.com:

> To ding means to let someone down, particularly in the Edinburgh area
> where you often hear about someone being "dingied" by a boy- or
> girlfriend, roughly "stood up".

Playground slang in south-west Scotland too.

It appears to be too recent a usage to have made it into the DSL.

--
John

[Mack A. Damia]

Nothing to do with "dingleberry"?

Dudley Do-Right on one of the episodes of the Rocky and Bullwinkle
Show was played by "K. Farley Dingwipe".

[Madrigal Gurneyhalt]

On Friday, 17 August 2018 17:13:56 UTC+1, Mack A. Damia wrote:
> On Fri, 17 Aug 2018 16:54:16 +0100, John Dunlop
> <dunlo...@ymail.com> wrote:
>
> >theg...@gmail.com:
> >
> >> To ding means to let someone down, particularly in the Edinburgh area
> >> where you often hear about someone being "dingied" by a boy- or
> >> girlfriend, roughly "stood up".
> >
> >Playground slang in south-west Scotland too.
> >
> >It appears to be too recent a usage to have made it into the DSL.
>
> Nothing to do with "dingleberry"?
>

Correct. It has nothing to do with dingleberry!