Strop for England

[Tony Cooper]

In a book I'm reading one character, reluctant to bother another
character, says of the other character "She could strop for England".

To the best of my knowledge, "strop" is not used in AmE except as a
archiac term for a strap used to sharpen a straight razor: a razor
strop.

The British usage seems to be "in a perpetual bad mood". "Stroppy",
meaning "acting in an aggrieved manner" is familar to me, but not
"strop" as in the example sentence.

Interesting usage. "He could strop for New Jersey" could catch on
here.


--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

On 2016-11-07 19:16:31 +0000, Tony Cooper said:

> In a book I'm reading one character, reluctant to bother another
> character, says of the other character "She could strop for England".
>
> To the best of my knowledge, "strop" is not used in AmE except as a
> archiac term for a strap used to sharpen a straight razor: a razor
> strop.

I think that's also the main usage in British English.

>
> The British usage seems to be "in a perpetual bad mood". "Stroppy",
> meaning "acting in an aggrieved manner" is familar to me, but not
> "strop" as in the example sentence.

"Stroppy" as an adjective is far more frequent than "strop" as a verb.
As for "stroppy", I'm not sure that it has the permanent character that
your definition suggests. A normally good-natured person can be stroppy
on occasion. I've heard such statements as "I was feeling a bit
stroppy".

>
> Interesting usage. "He could strop for New Jersey" could catch on
> here.

If you're thinking of the person I think you are, then I wouldn't apply
the word to him, as he's never in a nice mood.


--
athel

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Monday, November 7, 2016 at 2:52:19 PM UTC-5, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> On 2016-11-07 19:16:31 +0000, Tony Cooper said:

> > In a book I'm reading one character, reluctant to bother another
> > character, says of the other character "She could strop for England".
> > To the best of my knowledge, "strop" is not used in AmE except as a
> > archiac term for a strap used to sharpen a straight razor: a razor
> > strop.

What on earth makes you think it's archaic?

> I think that's also the main usage in British English.
>
> > The British usage seems to be "in a perpetual bad mood". "Stroppy",
> > meaning "acting in an aggrieved manner" is familar to me, but not
> > "strop" as in the example sentence.
>
> "Stroppy" as an adjective is far more frequent than "strop" as a verb.
> As for "stroppy", I'm not sure that it has the permanent character that
> your definition suggests. A normally good-natured person can be stroppy
> on occasion. I've heard such statements as "I was feeling a bit
> stroppy".
> >
> > Interesting usage. "He could strop for New Jersey" could catch on
> > here.

No, I guess it's _not_ me you're thinking of, for I don't "act in an
aggrieved manner for New Jersey." You must be reverting to one
of your "stories."

> If you're thinking of the person I think you are, then I wouldn't apply
> the word to him, as he's never in a nice mood.

How would he know?

[David Kleinecke]

Our metaphors are unraveling.

Tony suggests a membership on the New Jersey stropping team in,
one imagines, the World Stropping League and it somehow changes
into a discussion of moods. Thread slippage is expected - but
this is overdoing it.

[Tony Cooper]

If we would establish the "World Stropping League", we would only
include teams from US states following precedence set by the World
Series of baseball.

[Jerry Friedman]

On Monday, November 7, 2016 at 2:15:02 PM UTC-7, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Mon, 7 Nov 2016 12:49:06 -0800 (PST), David Kleinecke
> <dklei...@gmail.com> wrote:

...

> >Tony suggests a membership on the New Jersey stropping team in,
> >one imagines, the World Stropping League and it somehow changes
> >into a discussion of moods. Thread slippage is expected - but
> >this is overdoing it.
>
> If we would establish the "World Stropping League", we would only
> include teams from US states following precedence set by the World
> Series of baseball.

I predict that post will get a response beginning "Sorry".

--
Jerry Friedman

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Monday, November 7, 2016 at 4:15:02 PM UTC-5, Tony Cooper wrote:

> If we would establish the "World Stropping League", we would only
> include teams from US states following precedence set by the World
> Series of baseball.

Unfamiliar with the Toronto Blue Jays are you?

[CDB]

On 11/7/2016 3:49 PM, David Kleinecke wrote:
> Peter T. Daniels wrote:

>> Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>>> Tony Cooper said:

>>>> In a book I'm reading one character, reluctant to bother
>>>> another character, says of the other character "She could strop
>>>> for England". To the best of my knowledge, "strop" is not used
>>>> in AmE except as a archiac term for a strap used to sharpen a
>>>> straight razor: a razor strop.

>> What on earth makes you think it's archaic?

>>> I think that's also the main usage in British English.

>>>> The British usage seems to be "in a perpetual bad mood".
>>>> "Stroppy", meaning "acting in an aggrieved manner" is familar
>>>> to me, but not "strop" as in the example sentence.

>>> "Stroppy" as an adjective is far more frequent than "strop" as a
>>> verb. As for "stroppy", I'm not sure that it has the permanent
>>> character that your definition suggests. A normally good-natured
>>> person can be stroppy on occasion. I've heard such statements as
>>> "I was feeling a bit stroppy".

>>>> Interesting usage. "He could strop for New Jersey" could catch
>>>> on here.

>> No, I guess it's _not_ me you're thinking of, for I don't "act in
>> an aggrieved manner for New Jersey." You must be reverting to one
>> of your "stories."

The phrase merely indicates a talent of high calibre. Not that you
strop for New Jersey in the major leagues, but that you could. Tony's
book's character is Olympically stroppy.

>>> If you're thinking of the person I think you are, then I wouldn't
>>> apply the word to him, as he's never in a nice mood.

>> How would he know?

> Our metaphors are unraveling.

> Tony suggests a membership on the New Jersey stropping team in, one
> imagines, the World Stropping League and it somehow changes into a
> discussion of moods. Thread slippage is expected - but this is
> overdoing it.

Stropping puts a sharp edge on your temper.

[Tony Cooper]

I seem to have slipped one by. I would have expected a world-class
stropper to have caught that I wrote "...a archaic term for a
strap...".

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

That is a verbing of the noun "strop":

Brit. colloq.
As a mass noun: belligerence, peevishness (rare). As a count noun: a
fit of temper; a sulk.

Which is [OED] a:

Back-formation < stroppy adj.

stroppy, adj.
Etymology: ? abbrev. of obstreperous adj. with altered stem-vowel.
colloq.
Bad-tempered, rebellious, awkward, obstreperous, unruly.

The earliest quotation for that is:

1951 H. Hastings Seagulls over Sorrento ii. i, in Plays of Year
IV. 76 There ain't nothing clever about answering him back and
being stroppy.


https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/strop#strop_Noun_200

strop 2
noun
1970s: probably a back-formation from stroppy.

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/stroppy

stroppy
adjective
British
informal

Bad-tempered and argumentative.
1950s: perhaps an abbreviation of obstreperous.

--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

[Sam Plusnet]

In article <ivq12c1cgup53avb0...@4ax.com>,
tonyco...@gmail.com says...

>
> If we would establish the "World Stropping League", we would only
> include teams from US states following precedence set by the World
> Series of baseball.
>
>

This monitor needed a good clean anyway.

[Jack Campin]

>> In a book I'm reading one character, reluctant to bother another
>> character, says of the other character "She could strop for England".
>> To the best of my knowledge, "strop" is not used in AmE except as a
>> archiac term for a strap used to sharpen a straight razor: a razor
>> strop.
> I think that's also the main usage in British English.
>> The British usage seems to be "in a perpetual bad mood". "Stroppy",
>> meaning "acting in an aggrieved manner" is familar to me, but not
>> "strop" as in the example sentence.
> "Stroppy" as an adjective is far more frequent than "strop" as a verb.

In NZE, "strop" as a verb means "masturbate".

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
e m a i l : j a c k @ c a m p i n . m e . u k
Jack Campin, 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU, Scotland
mobile 07800 739 557 <http://www.campin.me.uk> Twitter: JackCampin

[Jerry Friedman]

On 11/7/16 12:52 PM, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> On 2016-11-07 19:16:31 +0000, Tony Cooper said:
>
>> In a book I'm reading one character, reluctant to bother another
>> character, says of the other character "She could strop for England".
>>
>> To the best of my knowledge, "strop" is not used in AmE except as a
>> archiac term for a strap used to sharpen a straight razor: a razor
>> strop.
>
> I think that's also the main usage in British English.
>>
>> The British usage seems to be "in a perpetual bad mood". "Stroppy",
>> meaning "acting in an aggrieved manner" is familar to me, but not
>> "strop" as in the example sentence.
>
> "Stroppy" as an adjective is far more frequent than "strop" as a verb.

...

How about "X could [verb] for England"? Is that common, like
"world-class [verber] here? Totally original to this book? Somewhere
in between?

--
Jerry Friedman
"No Trump" bridge-themed political shirts: cafepress.com/jerrysdesigns
Bumper stickers ditto: cafepress/jerrysstickers

[Charles Bishop]

In article <MPG.328b1d6...@news.plus.net>,

How's yer keyboard?

--
charles, and the cat?

[Charles Bishop]

In article <ivq12c1cgup53avb0...@4ax.com>,

Tony Cooper <tonyco...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, 7 Nov 2016 12:49:06 -0800 (PST), David Kleinecke
> <dklei...@gmail.com> wrote:
>

[snip from strap to strop]

> >
> >Tony suggests a membership on the New Jersey stropping team in,
> >one imagines, the World Stropping League and it somehow changes
> >into a discussion of moods. Thread slippage is expected - but
> >this is overdoing it.
>
> If we would establish the "World Stropping League", we would only
> include teams from US states following precedence set by the World
> Series of baseball.

Can there be a Canadian team as well?

--
charles

[Reinhold {Rey} Aman]

Charles Bishop wrote:

>
> Sam Plusnet wrote:
>>
>> This monitor needed a good clean anyway.
>>
> How's yer keyboard?
>

Speaking of which, Charlie, it was an immense pleasure spending half an
hour typing up for you instructions about making screenshots and
cleaning your keyboard.

Something must have gone wrong though when you cleaned your keyboard.
I'm sorry to see that in addition to the previously stuck keys J and X,
now six additional keys are also sticking: the T, H, A, N, K, and S.

De nada.

--
~~~ Reinhold {Rey} Aman ~~~

[Tony Cooper]

Certainly, but only when Canada freezes over and the hosers can strop
on their skates.

[occam]

This reminds me of a recent stand up joke (with Trump in mind): "The
Miss Universe pageant is rigged folks. How come it is always an
Earthling that wins it every time?"

[James Hogg]

Jerry Friedman wrote:
> On 11/7/16 12:52 PM, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>> On 2016-11-07 19:16:31 +0000, Tony Cooper said:
>>
>>> In a book I'm reading one character, reluctant to bother another
>>> character, says of the other character "She could strop for England".
>>>
>>> To the best of my knowledge, "strop" is not used in AmE except as a
>>> archiac term for a strap used to sharpen a straight razor: a razor
>>> strop.
>>
>> I think that's also the main usage in British English.
>>>
>>> The British usage seems to be "in a perpetual bad mood". "Stroppy",
>>> meaning "acting in an aggrieved manner" is familar to me, but not
>>> "strop" as in the example sentence.
>>
>> "Stroppy" as an adjective is far more frequent than "strop" as a verb.
> ...
>
> How about "X could [verb] for England"? Is that common, like
> "world-class [verber] here? Totally original to this book? Somewhere
> in between?

It's not original to this book. Instead of England you can hear county
names: "I could bore for Berkshire on the subject of X."

--
James

[Peter Moylan]

On 2016-Nov-08 10:27, Jack Campin wrote:
>>> In a book I'm reading one character, reluctant to bother another
>>> character, says of the other character "She could strop for England".
>>> To the best of my knowledge, "strop" is not used in AmE except as a
>>> archiac term for a strap used to sharpen a straight razor: a razor
>>> strop.
>> I think that's also the main usage in British English.
>>> The British usage seems to be "in a perpetual bad mood". "Stroppy",
>>> meaning "acting in an aggrieved manner" is familar to me, but not
>>> "strop" as in the example sentence.
>> "Stroppy" as an adjective is far more frequent than "strop" as a verb.
>
> In NZE, "strop" as a verb means "masturbate".

I hope nobody does it with a straight razor.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia

[Peter Moylan]

On 2016-Nov-08 12:53, Jerry Friedman wrote:
>
> How about "X could [verb] for England"? Is that common, like
> "world-class [verber] here? Totally original to this book? Somewhere
> in between?

I've heard "He could talk for Ireland" from an Irish friend.

[musika]

On 08/11/2016 01:53, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> On 11/7/16 12:52 PM, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>> On 2016-11-07 19:16:31 +0000, Tony Cooper said:
>>
>>> In a book I'm reading one character, reluctant to bother another
>>> character, says of the other character "She could strop for England".
>>>
>>> To the best of my knowledge, "strop" is not used in AmE except as a
>>> archiac term for a strap used to sharpen a straight razor: a razor
>>> strop.
>>
>> I think that's also the main usage in British English.
>>>
>>> The British usage seems to be "in a perpetual bad mood". "Stroppy",
>>> meaning "acting in an aggrieved manner" is familar to me, but not
>>> "strop" as in the example sentence.
>>
>> "Stroppy" as an adjective is far more frequent than "strop" as a verb.
> ...
>
> How about "X could [verb] for England"? Is that common, like
> "world-class [verber] here? Totally original to this book? Somewhere
> in between?
>

Extremely common.

--
Ray
UK

[Adam Funk]

On 2016-11-07, Tony Cooper wrote:

> In a book I'm reading one character, reluctant to bother another
> character, says of the other character "She could strop for England".
>
> To the best of my knowledge, "strop" is not used in AmE except as a
> archiac term for a strap used to sharpen a straight razor: a razor
> strop.
>
> The British usage seems to be "in a perpetual bad mood". "Stroppy",
> meaning "acting in an aggrieved manner" is familar to me, but not
> "strop" as in the example sentence.

It can also be a noun: "He's having a strop."

> Interesting usage. "He could strop for New Jersey" could catch on
> here.

The resident chauvinist is no doubt highly offended by being
associated with a BrE term.


--
Just memorize these shell commands and type them to sync up. If you
get errors, save your work elsewhere, delete the project, and download
a fresh copy. <https://xkcd.com/1597/>

[Adam Funk]

On 2016-11-07, Jack Campin wrote:

>>> In a book I'm reading one character, reluctant to bother another
>>> character, says of the other character "She could strop for England".
>>> To the best of my knowledge, "strop" is not used in AmE except as a
>>> archiac term for a strap used to sharpen a straight razor: a razor
>>> strop.
>> I think that's also the main usage in British English.
>>> The British usage seems to be "in a perpetual bad mood". "Stroppy",
>>> meaning "acting in an aggrieved manner" is familar to me, but not
>>> "strop" as in the example sentence.
>> "Stroppy" as an adjective is far more frequent than "strop" as a verb.
>
> In NZE, "strop" as a verb means "masturbate".

I'd never heard of that --- thanks for the warning.


--
No sport is less organized than Calvinball!

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Tuesday, November 8, 2016 at 5:30:05 AM UTC-5, Adam Funk wrote:
> On 2016-11-07, Tony Cooper wrote:

> > Interesting usage. "He could strop for New Jersey" could catch on
> > here.
>
> The resident chauvinist is no doubt highly offended by being
> associated with a BrE term.

No one has yet managed to figure out what Abie was trying to say
in that particular attempt at an insult.

[Jerry Friedman]

On 11/8/16 12:36 AM, James Hogg wrote:
> Jerry Friedman wrote:
>> On 11/7/16 12:52 PM, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>>> On 2016-11-07 19:16:31 +0000, Tony Cooper said:
>>>
>>>> In a book I'm reading one character, reluctant to bother another
>>>> character, says of the other character "She could strop for England".

...

>>>>
>>>> The British usage seems to be "in a perpetual bad mood". "Stroppy",
>>>> meaning "acting in an aggrieved manner" is familar to me, but not
>>>> "strop" as in the example sentence.
>>>
>>> "Stroppy" as an adjective is far more frequent than "strop" as a verb.
>> ...
>>
>> How about "X could [verb] for England"? Is that common, like
>> "world-class [verber]

"

>> here? Totally original to this book? Somewhere
>> in between?
>
> It's not original to this book. Instead of England you can hear county
> names: "I could bore for Berkshire on the subject of X."

Thanks to you, Peter M., and Ray.

[Whiskers]

On 2016-11-07, Tony Cooper <tonyco...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In a book I'm reading one character, reluctant to bother another
> character, says of the other character "She could strop for England".
>

> To the best of my knowledge, "strop" is not used in AmE except as a
> archiac term for a strap used to sharpen a straight razor: a razor
> strop.
>

> The British usage seems to be "in a perpetual bad mood". "Stroppy",
> meaning "acting in an aggrieved manner" is familar to me, but not
> "strop" as in the example sentence.
>

> Interesting usage. "He could strop for New Jersey" could catch on
> here.

Derived from 'Obstreperous'.

--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~

[Whiskers]

It is of course not archaic. Although I think that isn't the mistake
you were thinking of.

[Tony Cooper]

On Tue, 08 Nov 2016 10:17:32 +0000, Adam Funk <a24...@ducksburg.com>
wrote:

>On 2016-11-07, Tony Cooper wrote:
>
>> In a book I'm reading one character, reluctant to bother another
>> character, says of the other character "She could strop for England".
>>
>> To the best of my knowledge, "strop" is not used in AmE except as a
>> archiac term for a strap used to sharpen a straight razor: a razor
>> strop.
>>
>> The British usage seems to be "in a perpetual bad mood". "Stroppy",
>> meaning "acting in an aggrieved manner" is familar to me, but not
>> "strop" as in the example sentence.
>
>It can also be a noun: "He's having a strop."
>
>
>> Interesting usage. "He could strop for New Jersey" could catch on
>> here.
>
>The resident chauvinist is no doubt highly offended by being
>associated with a BrE term.

He's trying. He's used "bloody" a couple of times recently, but it
came across as rather Dick Van Dykeish. He hasn't got it.

[Tony Cooper]

On Tue, 8 Nov 2016 15:14:12 +0000, Whiskers <catwh...@operamail.com>
wrote:

I'm not sure about "archaic" being a mistakenly used term. "Archaic"
is "very old or old-fashioned". The word "strop" is an old-fashioned
term for a strap. It isn't used anymore. However, a razor strop -
the object itself - is still a strop.

The actual mistake was not acknowledging the pirate sound.

[Janet]

In article <0ak12c9lfbsv37j7e...@4ax.com>, tonycooper214
@gmail.com says...

>
> In a book I'm reading one character, reluctant to bother another
> character, says of the other character "She could strop for England".
>
> To the best of my knowledge, "strop" is not used in AmE except as a
> archiac term for a strap used to sharpen a straight razor: a razor
> strop.
>
> The British usage seems to be "in a perpetual bad mood".

No implication of "perpetual".

"having a strop" is just an outburst of annoyance.

"stroppy" ; adjective to describe cross person.

Janet

[Janet]

In article <nvrb5v$nd$1...@news.albasani.net>, jerry_f...@yahoo.com
says...

>
> On 11/7/16 12:52 PM, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> > On 2016-11-07 19:16:31 +0000, Tony Cooper said:
> >
> >> In a book I'm reading one character, reluctant to bother another
> >> character, says of the other character "She could strop for England".
> >>
> >> To the best of my knowledge, "strop" is not used in AmE except as a
> >> archiac term for a strap used to sharpen a straight razor: a razor
> >> strop.
> >
> > I think that's also the main usage in British English.
> >>
> >> The British usage seems to be "in a perpetual bad mood". "Stroppy",
> >> meaning "acting in an aggrieved manner" is familar to me, but not
> >> "strop" as in the example sentence.
> >
> > "Stroppy" as an adjective is far more frequent than "strop" as a verb.
> ...
>
> How about "X could [verb] for England"? Is that common,

Yes.

Janet

[Janet]

In article <36cd5358-a4fa-4250...@googlegroups.com>,
gram...@verizon.net says...

Oh yes they did

Janet

[Sam Plusnet]

In article <MPG.328c31f06d234bd39899d5
@news.individual.net>, nob...@home.com says...

Is it Panto season already?

[Peter T. Daniels]

As if Abie Cooper were qualified to judge, having learned his BrE
from televised costume dramas.

[Peter T. Daniels]

Then they should have posted their interpretation here.

[Tony Cooper]

If you describe a person as cross, you are pretty much implying that
the person is perpetually cross. If you say they are in a cross, or
stroppy mood, you are stating a current - not perpetual - attitude.

"He's being (cross or stroppy)" is temporary. "He's a stroppy old
bugger" is a description of perpetual temperament.

[Tony Cooper]

I seriously doubt if anyone here is in the dark about who is on the
New Jerseyite All-Stars Stropping team...the Pelé of Stropping.

[Adam Funk]

It's behind you!


--
Java is kind of like kindergarten. There are lots of rules you have to
remember. If you don't follow them, the compiler makes you sit in the
corner until you do. --- Don Raab

[Whiskers]

'In a strop' or possibly 'having a strop' is a transient condition.
'Stroppy' may not be.

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Tuesday, November 8, 2016 at 5:10:00 PM UTC-5, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Tue, 8 Nov 2016 19:03:49 -0000, Janet <nob...@home.com> wrote:
> >In article <36cd5358-a4fa-4250...@googlegroups.com>,
> >gram...@verizon.net says...
> >> On Tuesday, November 8, 2016 at 5:30:05 AM UTC-5, Adam Funk wrote:
> >> > On 2016-11-07, Tony Cooper wrote:

> >> > > Interesting usage. "He could strop for New Jersey" could catch on
> >> > > here.
> >> > The resident chauvinist is no doubt highly offended by being
> >> > associated with a BrE term.
> >> No one has yet managed to figure out what Abie was trying to say
> >> in that particular attempt at an insult.
> > Oh yes they did
>

> I seriously doubt if anyone here is in the dark about who is on the
> New Jerseyite All-Stars Stropping team...the Pelé of Stropping.

Christopher James Christie. Screwing the state since 2009.

[Janet]

In article <9ei42chvqqsdubddc...@4ax.com>, tonycooper214
@gmail.com says...

>
> On Tue, 8 Nov 2016 18:59:09 -0000, Janet <nob...@home.com> wrote:
>
> >In article <0ak12c9lfbsv37j7e...@4ax.com>, tonycooper214
> >@gmail.com says...
> >>
> >> In a book I'm reading one character, reluctant to bother another
> >> character, says of the other character "She could strop for England".
> >>
> >> To the best of my knowledge, "strop" is not used in AmE except as a
> >> archiac term for a strap used to sharpen a straight razor: a razor
> >> strop.
> >>
> >> The British usage seems to be "in a perpetual bad mood".
> >
> > No implication of "perpetual".
> >
> > "having a strop" is just an outburst of annoyance.
> >
> > "stroppy" ; adjective to describe cross person.
> >
> > Janet
>
> If you describe a person as cross, you are pretty much implying that
> the person is perpetually cross.

Not in my English. "Mrs Jones was cross when the cat ate her canary".
One-off event.



Janet.

[Janet]

In article <a5f2f036-1f79-4ba9...@googlegroups.com>,

gram...@verizon.net says...
>
> On Tuesday, November 8, 2016 at 2:03:53 PM UTC-5, Janet wrote:
> > In article <36cd5358-a4fa-4250...@googlegroups.com>,
> > gram...@verizon.net says...
> > >
> > > On Tuesday, November 8, 2016 at 5:30:05 AM UTC-5, Adam Funk wrote:
> > > > On 2016-11-07, Tony Cooper wrote:
> > >
> > > > > Interesting usage. "He could strop for New Jersey" could catch on
> > > > > here.
> > > >
> > > > The resident chauvinist is no doubt highly offended by being
> > > > associated with a BrE term.
> > >
> > > No one has yet managed to figure out what Abie was trying to say
> > > in that particular attempt at an insult.
> >
> > Oh yes they did
>
> Then they should have posted their interpretation here.

I don't want you to grow up with a victim complex.

Janet

[Janet]

In article <MPG.328c37a...@news.plus.net>, n...@home.com says...

We're still auditioning for Prince Charming.

Janet

[Tony Cooper]

On Wed, 9 Nov 2016 17:17:43 -0000, Janet <nob...@home.com> wrote:

>In article <9ei42chvqqsdubddc...@4ax.com>, tonycooper214
>@gmail.com says...
>>
>> On Tue, 8 Nov 2016 18:59:09 -0000, Janet <nob...@home.com> wrote:
>>
>> >In article <0ak12c9lfbsv37j7e...@4ax.com>, tonycooper214
>> >@gmail.com says...
>> >>
>> >> In a book I'm reading one character, reluctant to bother another
>> >> character, says of the other character "She could strop for England".
>> >>
>> >> To the best of my knowledge, "strop" is not used in AmE except as a
>> >> archiac term for a strap used to sharpen a straight razor: a razor
>> >> strop.
>> >>
>> >> The British usage seems to be "in a perpetual bad mood".
>> >
>> > No implication of "perpetual".
>> >
>> > "having a strop" is just an outburst of annoyance.
>> >
>> > "stroppy" ; adjective to describe cross person.
>> >
>> > Janet
>>
>> If you describe a person as cross, you are pretty much implying that
>> the person is perpetually cross.
>
> Not in my English. "Mrs Jones was cross when the cat ate her canary".
> One-off event.
>

But that's descriptive of a past time, and it doesn't describe Mrs
Jones as cross. "That cross old bat who has the cat that ate her
canary" pretty much implies perpetual crossness.

[Jerry Friedman]

Just like "She could strop for England" (perpetual) and "She got
stroppy" (momentary).

When you said "the British usage" above, did you mean "She could
strop for England"? I thought you were referring to the British
usage of "strop" in general, contrasted with our use.

--
Jerry Friedman

[Sam Plusnet]

In article <MPG.328d6c21898e0a6c9899e0

@news.individual.net>, nob...@home.com says...
>
> In article <MPG.328c37a...@news.plus.net>, n...@home.com says...
> >
> > In article <MPG.328c31f06d234bd39899d5
> > @news.individual.net>, nob...@home.com says...
> > >
> > > In article <36cd5358-a4fa-4250...@googlegroups.com>,
> > > gram...@verizon.net says...
> > > >
> > > > On Tuesday, November 8, 2016 at 5:30:05 AM UTC-5, Adam Funk wrote:
> > > > > On 2016-11-07, Tony Cooper wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > > Interesting usage. "He could strop for New Jersey" could catch on
> > > > > > here.
> > > > >
> > > > > The resident chauvinist is no doubt highly offended by being
> > > > > associated with a BrE term.
> > > >
> > > > No one has yet managed to figure out what Abie was trying to say
> > > > in that particular attempt at an insult.
> > >
> > > Oh yes they did
> > >
> > Is it Panto season already?
>
> We're still auditioning for Prince Charming.
>

Just find out who has the best-looking legs.

[Tony Cooper]

Not in general, but in the specific: to be in a bad mood and be
unpleasant to other people.

>contrasted with our use.

You mean our use in "razor strop" when they were used? Wasn't it
called that there?

As far as I know, "strop" and "stroppy" are not used in the US.

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Wednesday, November 9, 2016 at 5:09:26 PM UTC-5, Tony Cooper wrote:

> You mean our use in "razor strop" when they were used? Wasn't it
> called that there?

That's the second time you've implied that "razor strop" is archaic or
obsolete. Where do you _get_ this stuff?

[Jack Campin]

>> You mean our use in "razor strop" when they were used?
>> Wasn't it called that there?
> That's the second time you've implied that "razor strop"
> is archaic or obsolete. Where do you _get_ this stuff?

Where do you get a razor strop?

The object is obscure and almost extinct, so the word for
it is too. Might be different if the KJV had taken it up,
but it doesn't describe the Lord stropping the razor of
judgement or suggest an appropriate toolkit for mohels.

I last saw somebody using a straight razor in Turkey in
the 1990s. Maybe the Turkish barbers that have caught
on in the UK in recent years might use them; I haven't
been into one. They probably just use the Turkish word
for a strop (which I just looked up; you never know when
you might want to drop it into a conversation).

I'm surprised the NZ sense of the word hasn't become more
widespread. If you've ever seen anybody use one you can
imagine why it makes sense. Some languages (like Maltese,
I think) have the same metaphor for friction drums.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
e m a i l : j a c k @ c a m p i n . m e . u k
Jack Campin, 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU, Scotland
mobile 07800 739 557 <http://www.campin.me.uk> Twitter: JackCampin

[Tony Cooper]

On Thu, 10 Nov 2016 00:36:53 +0000, Jack Campin
<bo...@purr.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>>> You mean our use in "razor strop" when they were used?
>>> Wasn't it called that there?
>> That's the second time you've implied that "razor strop"
>> is archaic or obsolete. Where do you _get_ this stuff?
>
>Where do you get a razor strop?
>
>The object is obscure and almost extinct, so the word for
>it is too. Might be different if the KJV had taken it up,
>but it doesn't describe the Lord stropping the razor of
>judgement or suggest an appropriate toolkit for mohels.
>
>I last saw somebody using a straight razor in Turkey in
>the 1990s. Maybe the Turkish barbers that have caught
>on in the UK in recent years might use them; I haven't
>been into one. They probably just use the Turkish word
>for a strop (which I just looked up; you never know when
>you might want to drop it into a conversation).
>
>I'm surprised the NZ sense of the word hasn't become more
>widespread. If you've ever seen anybody use one you can
>imagine why it makes sense. Some languages (like Maltese,
>I think) have the same metaphor for friction drums.

My grandfather used a straight razor, and a razor strop hung from a
peg next to the bathroom sink. It was said, when I was growing up,
that if you were bad your father would "take the razor strop to you".
My father used a double-edge blade safety razor to shave so there was
no strop in our house, and my grandfather's severest form of
disapproval was a stern look.

I suppose there's a market today for razor strops as items of decor,
and that they are in the "vintage" category now.

[Robert Bannister]

On 8/11/16 3:52 am, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> On 2016-11-07 19:16:31 +0000, Tony Cooper said:
>

>> In a book I'm reading one character, reluctant to bother another
>> character, says of the other character "She could strop for England".
>>
>> To the best of my knowledge, "strop" is not used in AmE except as a
>> archiac term for a strap used to sharpen a straight razor: a razor
>> strop.
>

> I think that's also the main usage in British English.
>>

>> The British usage seems to be "in a perpetual bad mood". "Stroppy",
>> meaning "acting in an aggrieved manner" is familar to me, but not
>> "strop" as in the example sentence.
>

> "Stroppy" as an adjective is far more frequent than "strop" as a verb.

> As for "stroppy", I'm not sure that it has the permanent character that
> your definition suggests. A normally good-natured person can be stroppy
> on occasion. I've heard such statements as "I was feeling a bit stroppy".

>>
>> Interesting usage. "He could strop for New Jersey" could catch on
>> here.
>

> If you're thinking of the person I think you are, then I wouldn't apply
> the word to him, as he's never in a nice mood.
>
>
Is this verbal usage relatively new? I can't say I had heard before I
left England, and I don't think I've heard it on any British TV shows,
of which I watch quite a few.

--
Robert B. born England a long time ago;
Western Australia since 1972

[Robert Bannister]

On 8/11/16 5:15 am, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Mon, 7 Nov 2016 12:49:06 -0800 (PST), David Kleinecke
> <dklei...@gmail.com> wrote:
>

>> On Monday, November 7, 2016 at 12:24:28 PM UTC-8, Peter T. Daniels wrote:

>>> On Monday, November 7, 2016 at 2:52:19 PM UTC-5, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>>>> On 2016-11-07 19:16:31 +0000, Tony Cooper said:
>>>
>>>>> In a book I'm reading one character, reluctant to bother another
>>>>> character, says of the other character "She could strop for England".
>>>>> To the best of my knowledge, "strop" is not used in AmE except as a
>>>>> archiac term for a strap used to sharpen a straight razor: a razor
>>>>> strop.
>>>

>>> What on earth makes you think it's archaic?

>>>
>>>> I think that's also the main usage in British English.
>>>>
>>>>> The British usage seems to be "in a perpetual bad mood". "Stroppy",
>>>>> meaning "acting in an aggrieved manner" is familar to me, but not
>>>>> "strop" as in the example sentence.
>>>>
>>>> "Stroppy" as an adjective is far more frequent than "strop" as a verb.
>>>> As for "stroppy", I'm not sure that it has the permanent character that
>>>> your definition suggests. A normally good-natured person can be stroppy
>>>> on occasion. I've heard such statements as "I was feeling a bit
>>>> stroppy".
>>>>>
>>>>> Interesting usage. "He could strop for New Jersey" could catch on
>>>>> here.
>>>

>>> No, I guess it's _not_ me you're thinking of, for I don't "act in an
>>> aggrieved manner for New Jersey." You must be reverting to one
>>> of your "stories."

>>>
>>>> If you're thinking of the person I think you are, then I wouldn't apply
>>>> the word to him, as he's never in a nice mood.
>>>

>>> How would he know?
>>
>> Our metaphors are unraveling.

>>
>> Tony suggests a membership on the New Jersey stropping team in,
>> one imagines, the World Stropping League and it somehow changes
>> into a discussion of moods. Thread slippage is expected - but
>> this is overdoing it.
>
> If we would establish the "World Stropping League", we would only
> include teams from US states following precedence set by the World
> Series of baseball.
>

Your new president has only promised to make America great again, not
the world. Europe, however, has had plenty of experience with walls, as
has China. None of them were very successful.

[Robert Bannister]

On 8/11/16 9:53 am, Jerry Friedman wrote:

> On 11/7/16 12:52 PM, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>> On 2016-11-07 19:16:31 +0000, Tony Cooper said:
>>
>>> In a book I'm reading one character, reluctant to bother another
>>> character, says of the other character "She could strop for England".
>>>
>>> To the best of my knowledge, "strop" is not used in AmE except as a
>>> archiac term for a strap used to sharpen a straight razor: a razor
>>> strop.
>>

>> I think that's also the main usage in British English.
>>>
>>> The British usage seems to be "in a perpetual bad mood". "Stroppy",
>>> meaning "acting in an aggrieved manner" is familar to me, but not
>>> "strop" as in the example sentence.
>>
>> "Stroppy" as an adjective is far more frequent than "strop" as a verb.

> ...
>
> How about "X could [verb] for England"? Is that common, like
> "world-class [verber] here? Totally original to this book? Somewhere
> in between?
>

I'd say it was commonplace in Britain.

[Robert Bannister]

On 8/11/16 6:17 pm, Adam Funk wrote:
> On 2016-11-07, Tony Cooper wrote:
>

>> In a book I'm reading one character, reluctant to bother another
>> character, says of the other character "She could strop for England".
>>
>> To the best of my knowledge, "strop" is not used in AmE except as a
>> archiac term for a strap used to sharpen a straight razor: a razor
>> strop.
>>

>> The British usage seems to be "in a perpetual bad mood". "Stroppy",
>> meaning "acting in an aggrieved manner" is familar to me, but not
>> "strop" as in the example sentence.
>

> It can also be a noun: "He's having a strop."

I'm more familiar with "He's in (bit of) a strop".

[Robert Bannister]

I thought that was for the panto horse.

[Robert Bannister]

On 8/11/16 11:12 pm, Whiskers wrote:

> On 2016-11-07, Tony Cooper <tonyco...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> In a book I'm reading one character, reluctant to bother another
>> character, says of the other character "She could strop for England".
>>
>> To the best of my knowledge, "strop" is not used in AmE except as a
>> archiac term for a strap used to sharpen a straight razor: a razor
>> strop.
>>
>> The British usage seems to be "in a perpetual bad mood". "Stroppy",
>> meaning "acting in an aggrieved manner" is familar to me, but not
>> "strop" as in the example sentence.
>>

>> Interesting usage. "He could strop for New Jersey" could catch on
>> here.
>

> Derived from 'Obstreperous'.
>

Hence "streppy throat" - irritable throat?

--
Robert B. Please don't tell me about coccus.

[Robert Bannister]

Are you saying razor strops are not still used? Every hairdresser I've
been to has one and uses it, and I presume those people who use an open
razor at home do the same.

[Tony Cooper]

We always want someone else to be responsible. The last time we were
involved with a wall, we told them "Tear down this wall!". This time,
we're saying "Pay for this wall!".

[Peter Moylan]

Anyone would be irritated by obstreptococci.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia

[Tony Cooper]

You do realize that any American who reads that line giggles at you?

>has one and uses it, and I presume those people who use an open
>razor at home do the same.

As far as I know, straight razors went out with cut-purses.

[snide...@gmail.com]

Not the ones who go to Supercuts or Fantastic Sams, which seem to keep busy.
Finding a traditional barber is still possible,
but many barbershops are staffed by stylists these days.

>
> >has one and uses it, and I presume those people who use an open
> >razor at home do the same.
>
> As far as I know, straight razors went out with cut-purses.

Probably rare for home use,
but showing up in some "retro razor" dealerships.

I've seen them at salons and even barbershops.
I think the SportClips franchises may use straight razors.
They have the hot towels for the face.
But I'm going just by the advertising, not experience.
Ditto the Eighteen Eight Fine Men's Salons,
which seem to have a luxe price list.

/dps

[Jerry Friedman]

On 11/9/16 6:56 PM, Robert Bannister wrote:

[strop for England]

> Is this verbal usage relatively new? I can't say I had heard before I
> left England, and I don't think I've heard it on any British TV shows,
> of which I watch quite a few.

It's not in the OED. Maybe someone should submit it.

--
Jerry Friedman

[bill van]

In article <f7n72ctg9e5iquq36...@4ax.com>,

It's the pernicious influence of the Intarnets. Too many sites have pay
walls.
--
bill

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Wednesday, November 9, 2016 at 7:37:01 PM UTC-5, Jack Campin wrote:

NO, HE DID NOT.

> >> You mean our use in "razor strop" when they were used?
> >> Wasn't it called that there?
> > That's the second time you've implied that "razor strop"
> > is archaic or obsolete. Where do you _get_ this stuff?
>
> Where do you get a razor strop?

Presumably the same place all the other barber/hair salon products come
from, such as the blue water they "sterilize" the combs in.

[Tony Cooper]

On Wed, 9 Nov 2016 19:17:52 -0800 (PST), snide...@gmail.com wrote:

>On Wednesday, November 9, 2016 at 6:40:45 PM UTC-8, Tony Cooper wrote:
>> On Thu, 10 Nov 2016 10:10:30 +0800, Robert Bannister
>> <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:
>> >On 10/11/16 6:09 am, Tony Cooper wrote:
>
>> >> You mean our use in "razor strop" when they were used? Wasn't it
>> >> called that there?
>> >
>> >Are you saying razor strops are not still used? Every hairdresser I've
>> >been to
>>
>> You do realize that any American who reads that line giggles at you?
>
>Not the ones who go to Supercuts or Fantastic Sams, which seem to keep busy.
>Finding a traditional barber is still possible,
>but many barbershops are staffed by stylists these days.

The barbershop I currently use is staffed by male barbers. Before
finding this place I did use that type of shop, and the stylists were
female.

The "giggle", though, is over the word "hairdresser", not the gender
of the person wielding the scissors. At least in my English,
"hairdresser" is used only to describe the person that does women's
hair.

Even when I went to the chain places like you mention above, I would
never say I was going to the hairdressers. I even resist using
"stylist" because there's not much styling that can be done with what
I have. What I get is "shorter".

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

Probably, but that says something about Americans.

>
>> has one and uses it, and I presume those people who use an open
>> razor at home do the same.
>
> As far as I know, straight razors went out with cut-purses.


--

athel

[Richard Heathfield]

On 10/11/16 02:40, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Nov 2016 10:10:30 +0800, Robert Bannister
> <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:
>
>> On 10/11/16 6:09 am, Tony Cooper wrote:

<snip>

>>> You mean our use in "razor strop" when they were used? Wasn't it
>>> called that there?
>>
>> Are you saying razor strops are not still used? Every hairdresser I've
>> been to
>
> You do realize that any American who reads that line giggles at you?

What's wrong with going to a hairdresser? Do Americans really giggle at
such things? *All* Americans?

Do the British giggle when the Americans drive on the wrong side of the
road, or drop 'u's all over the carpet, or call their handbags purses?
Of course not. It's just part of that rich and diverse cultural fabric
that keeps life interesting for all of us.

I'm sure you're wrong. But there will be *some* Americans for whom it's
true, no doubt. And if I were you, I wouldn't pay too much attention to
them until they've got over their titillation at the thought that
another culture might use words in a slightly different way to them.

--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

[charles]

In article <o01dmf$jhc$1...@dont-email.me>,

Richard Heathfield <r...@cpax.org.uk> wrote:
> On 10/11/16 02:40, Tony Cooper wrote:
> > On Thu, 10 Nov 2016 10:10:30 +0800, Robert Bannister
> > <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On 10/11/16 6:09 am, Tony Cooper wrote:
> <snip>
> >>> You mean our use in "razor strop" when they were used? Wasn't it
> >>> called that there?
> >>
> >> Are you saying razor strops are not still used? Every hairdresser I've
> >> been to
> >
> > You do realize that any American who reads that line giggles at you?

> What's wrong with going to a hairdresser? Do Americans really giggle at
> such things? *All* Americans?

I suspect the "giggle" is at the use of "hairdresser" for men. The more
masculine version is "barber" - or beard trimmer. Now, they would use a
razor strop.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

[Richard Heathfield]

On 10/11/16 09:18, charles wrote:
> In article <o01dmf$jhc$1...@dont-email.me>,
> Richard Heathfield <r...@cpax.org.uk> wrote:
>> On 10/11/16 02:40, Tony Cooper wrote:
>>> On Thu, 10 Nov 2016 10:10:30 +0800, Robert Bannister
>>> <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 10/11/16 6:09 am, Tony Cooper wrote:
>> <snip>
>>>>> You mean our use in "razor strop" when they were used? Wasn't it
>>>>> called that there?
>>>>
>>>> Are you saying razor strops are not still used? Every hairdresser I've
>>>> been to
>>>
>>> You do realize that any American who reads that line giggles at you?
>
>> What's wrong with going to a hairdresser? Do Americans really giggle at
>> such things? *All* Americans?
>
> I suspect the "giggle" is at the use of "hairdresser" for men.

I suspect you're right. But it's like giggling on being introduced to a
man called Leslie (such as Leslie Nielsen, the actor) or Tracy (such as
Tracy Smothers, the wrestler) or Marion (such as John Wayne).

> The more
> masculine version is "barber" - or beard trimmer.

Maybe to you it's more masculine. To me, a barber is someone who puts a
pudding bowl on your head and cuts around the rim, whereas a hairdresser
is someone who understands about things like ears. I'm sure I am grossly
mis-characterising the barbers of this world on the basis of a childhood
prejudice, but there it is.

> Now, they would use a razor strop.

Surely that's unlikely, nowadays?

[charles]

In article <o01f43$o5d$1...@dont-email.me>,

According to last weekend's Sunday Times, open blade razors are coming
back. My father had a set of 7 (one for each day of the week)

[charles]

In article <55dcc42a...@candehope.me.uk>, charles

following up my own post: It was The Oldie which had the article - not the
Sunday Times

[Katy Jennison]

My father had two, and used them alternately.

They certainly are coming back (if they ever left). The on-trend thing
here is the "Turkish barber" (there are now two such establishments here
in Witney) which do a proper wet shave.

Ordinary English barbers used to do the same thing, of course, and
probably there are some who still do, but fashion requires a young Turk.

--
Katy Jennison

[Janet]

In article <bogus-99A631....@four.schnuerpel.eu>,
bo...@purr.demon.co.uk says...

>
> >> You mean our use in "razor strop" when they were used?
> >> Wasn't it called that there?
> > That's the second time you've implied that "razor strop"
> > is archaic or obsolete. Where do you _get_ this stuff?
>
> Where do you get a razor strop?

http://www.shaving-shack.com/strops-and-hones/

Janet

[Janet]

In article <e8i2m2...@mid.individual.net>, rob...@clubtelco.com
says...

> Your new president has only promised to make America great again, not
> the world. Europe, however, has had plenty of experience with walls, as
> has China. None of them were very successful.
>

Humpty Dumpty Trumpty will soon have egg all over his face. Or all
over America's face.

Janet.

[Janet]

In article <e8i33u...@mid.individual.net>, rob...@clubtelco.com
says...

That's streptococcal throat but I'm sure you know that :-)

Janet

[Richard Heathfield]

On 10/11/16 02:00, Robert Bannister wrote:
<snip>

>>
> Your new president has only promised to make America great again, not
> the world. Europe, however, has had plenty of experience with walls, as
> has China. None of them were very successful.

Actually, Wall's has been doing pretty well ever since 1886.

[Janet]

In article <o00mkn$e25$1...@dont-email.me>, pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid
says...

If it makes you very cross you might need a stroperation, available
in any backstreet traditional barbers.

Janet

[Adam Funk]

On 2016-11-10, Richard Heathfield wrote:

> On 10/11/16 09:18, charles wrote:

>> Richard Heathfield <r...@cpax.org.uk> wrote:

>>> What's wrong with going to a hairdresser? Do Americans really giggle at
>>> such things? *All* Americans?
>>
>> I suspect the "giggle" is at the use of "hairdresser" for men.
>
> I suspect you're right. But it's like giggling on being introduced to a
> man called Leslie (such as Leslie Nielsen, the actor) or Tracy (such as
> Tracy Smothers, the wrestler) or Marion (such as John Wayne).
>
>> The more
>> masculine version is "barber" - or beard trimmer.
>
> Maybe to you it's more masculine. To me, a barber is someone who puts a
> pudding bowl on your head and cuts around the rim, whereas a hairdresser
> is someone who understands about things like ears. I'm sure I am grossly
> mis-characterising the barbers of this world on the basis of a childhood
> prejudice, but there it is.

Nonsense, except for the last sentence! I got a good haircuit
yesterday in a place with "barber" on the sign. The female barber did
use an open-blade razor on the back of my neck at the end of the
process, but I didn't get a good look at whether it was one piece or
had replaceable (disposable) blades.



--
A mathematical formula should never be "owned" by anybody! Mathematics
belongs to God. --- Donald Knuth

[CDB]

On 11/10/2016 4:18 AM, charles wrote:
> Richard Heathfield <r...@cpax.org.uk> wrote:

>> Tony Cooper wrote:

>>> Robert Bannister <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:
>>>> Tony Cooper wrote:
>> <snip>

>>>>> You mean our use in "razor strop" when they were used? Wasn't
>>>>> it called that there?

>>>> Are you saying razor strops are not still used? Every
>>>> hairdresser I've been to

>>> You do realize that any American who reads that line giggles at
>>> you?

>> What's wrong with going to a hairdresser? Do Americans really
>> giggle at such things? *All* Americans?

Certainly not all.

> I suspect the "giggle" is at the use of "hairdresser" for men. The
> more masculine version is "barber" - or beard trimmer. Now, they
> would use a razor strop.

Tony is old. Me too, almost as. We both remember when "hairdresser"
was open code for "homosexual". People who giggle might do it in
acknowledgement of that killer witticism, or it might just be embarrassment.

Remember Joan Rivers's "Mr. Phyllis" routine? The giggles start right away.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlgDXDxgUUY

[RH Draney]

Familiar enough to form part of the setup for the first R-rated movie I
ever saw in the theatre: "Shampoo"...set in 1968, made in 1975, Warren
Beatty's randy hairdresser character is given unrestricted intimate
access to all his female clients because their husbands assume he must
be gay....r

[Charles Bishop]

In article <o01f43$o5d$1...@dont-email.me>,

Richard Heathfield <r...@cpax.org.uk> wrote:

> On 10/11/16 09:18, charles wrote:
> > In article <o01dmf$jhc$1...@dont-email.me>,
> > Richard Heathfield <r...@cpax.org.uk> wrote:
> >> On 10/11/16 02:40, Tony Cooper wrote:
> >>> On Thu, 10 Nov 2016 10:10:30 +0800, Robert Bannister
> >>> <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On 10/11/16 6:09 am, Tony Cooper wrote:
> >> <snip>
> >>>>> You mean our use in "razor strop" when they were used? Wasn't it
> >>>>> called that there?
> >>>>
> >>>> Are you saying razor strops are not still used? Every hairdresser I've
> >>>> been to
> >>>
> >>> You do realize that any American who reads that line giggles at you?
> >
> >> What's wrong with going to a hairdresser? Do Americans really giggle at
> >> such things? *All* Americans?
> >
> > I suspect the "giggle" is at the use of "hairdresser" for men.
>
> I suspect you're right. But it's like giggling on being introduced to a
> man called Leslie (such as Leslie Nielsen, the actor) or Tracy (such as
> Tracy Smothers, the wrestler) or Marion (such as John Wayne).

Well, yes. But I assume Tony didn't really mean that all Americans would
giggle, or most or many. It was a joke on Tony's part and not a
representation of what would happen, a throw away line, if you will. I
didn't giggle, but I did assume that hairdresser referred to a female
until I read the rest.

>
> > The more
> > masculine version is "barber" - or beard trimmer.
>
> Maybe to you it's more masculine. To me, a barber is someone who puts a
> pudding bowl on your head and cuts around the rim, whereas a hairdresser
> is someone who understands about things like ears. I'm sure I am grossly
> mis-characterising the barbers of this world on the basis of a childhood
> prejudice, but there it is.

Ah.

>
> > Now, they would use a razor strop.
>
> Surely that's unlikely, nowadays?

--

charles

[Jerry Friedman]

On 11/10/16 4:01 AM, Katy Jennison wrote:
> On 10/11/2016 09:57, charles wrote:
>> In article <o01f43$o5d$1...@dont-email.me>,
>> Richard Heathfield <r...@cpax.org.uk> wrote:
>>> On 10/11/16 09:18, charles wrote:

...

>>>> Now, they would use a razor strop.
>>
>>> Surely that's unlikely, nowadays?
>>
>> According to last weekend's Sunday Times, open blade razors are coming
>> back. My father had a set of 7 (one for each day of the week)
>>
>
> My father had two, and used them alternately.
>
> They certainly are coming back (if they ever left). The on-trend thing
> here is the "Turkish barber" (there are now two such establishments here
> in Witney) which do a proper wet shave.

Maybe attraction to "two such establishments" overriding the singular
"Turkish barber".

> Ordinary English barbers used to do the same thing, of course, and
> probably there are some who still do, but fashion requires a young Turk.

I suspect that a lot of ordinary American barbers have a straight razor
on hand and will shave you with it on request. I suspect this on the
basis of one offer that a female barber made about 25 years ago, but
that seems like proof to me. Anyway, my need for a haircut is getting
more urgent every day, so I'll soon be able to double /and/ update my
sample.

People with other ideas about evidence can look at Web sites such as

http://straightrazors.com/

--
Jerry Friedman

[Tony Cooper]

On Thu, 10 Nov 2016 09:13:17 +0000, Richard Heathfield
<r...@cpax.org.uk> wrote:

>On 10/11/16 02:40, Tony Cooper wrote:
>> On Thu, 10 Nov 2016 10:10:30 +0800, Robert Bannister
>> <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 10/11/16 6:09 am, Tony Cooper wrote:
><snip>
>>>> You mean our use in "razor strop" when they were used? Wasn't it
>>>> called that there?
>>>
>>> Are you saying razor strops are not still used? Every hairdresser I've
>>> been to
>>
>> You do realize that any American who reads that line giggles at you?
>
>What's wrong with going to a hairdresser? Do Americans really giggle at
>such things? *All* Americans?
>
>Do the British giggle when the Americans drive on the wrong side of the
>road, or drop 'u's all over the carpet, or call their handbags purses?
>Of course not. It's just part of that rich and diverse cultural fabric
>that keeps life interesting for all of us.
>
>I'm sure you're wrong. But there will be *some* Americans for whom it's
>true, no doubt. And if I were you, I wouldn't pay too much attention to
>them until they've got over their titillation at the thought that
>another culture might use words in a slightly different way to them.

How much attention do I pay to the Brit who giggles when I use "fanny"
in a slightly different way than they would?

That there are differences, and that we laugh at the differences, is
one of the joys of the language we don't share.

[Mack A. Damia]

On Thu, 10 Nov 2016 00:36:53 +0000, Jack Campin
<bo...@purr.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>>> You mean our use in "razor strop" when they were used?
>>> Wasn't it called that there?

>> That's the second time you've implied that "razor strop"
>> is archaic or obsolete. Where do you _get_ this stuff?
>
>Where do you get a razor strop?

I bought one in second-hand store many years ago. "Genuine Russian
leather", or that's what is imprinted on the strop.

[Rich Ulrich]

On Thu, 10 Nov 2016 12:19:32 +0000, Adam Funk <a24...@ducksburg.com>
wrote:

Hairdressers use scissors a lot. My childhood barber used a stout
version of an "electric razor."

My present-day hairdresser has available an electric razor, which
is (I think) mostly used for men. However, I'm pretty sure that
getting your hair "razor cut" is something that is possible, for men
and for women. And that it uses a straight razor.

--
Rich Ulrich

[Tony Cooper]

On Thu, 10 Nov 2016 07:56:54 -0500, CDB <belle...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 11/10/2016 4:18 AM, charles wrote:
>> Richard Heathfield <r...@cpax.org.uk> wrote:
>>> Tony Cooper wrote:
>>>> Robert Bannister <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:
>>>>> Tony Cooper wrote:
>>> <snip>
>
>>>>>> You mean our use in "razor strop" when they were used? Wasn't
>>>>>> it called that there?
>
>>>>> Are you saying razor strops are not still used? Every
>>>>> hairdresser I've been to
>
>>>> You do realize that any American who reads that line giggles at
>>>> you?
>
>>> What's wrong with going to a hairdresser? Do Americans really
>>> giggle at such things? *All* Americans?
>
>Certainly not all.
>
>> I suspect the "giggle" is at the use of "hairdresser" for men. The
>> more masculine version is "barber" - or beard trimmer. Now, they
>> would use a razor strop.
>
>Tony is old. Me too, almost as. We both remember when "hairdresser"
>was open code for "homosexual". People who giggle might do it in
>acknowledgement of that killer witticism, or it might just be embarrassment.
>

I regret using "giggle". What I was thinking of is that involuntary
mental start we experience when we see/hear a word used, or
pronounced, differently than we expect the word to be used or
pronounced: hairdresser, fag, fanny, laboratory, etc.

Perhaps there is a better word than "giggle" for this. "Giggle", in
fact, conjures up an image of pre-teen girls heads-together and
discussing boys, not a manly reaction to a word associated unmanly
treatments in a beauty salon.

At one time in the US, when a woman went to have her hair "done", she
went to the "beauty shop". That same establishment is now where some
men go to have a haircut, but those men don't think of the place as a
"beauty shop".

For that matter, why do women have their hair "done" when the process
is never done? It's a visit where the results are temporary.

The subject area has other terms that are questionable. Women have
their hair "trimmed" and men have their hair "cut". Women have
"permanents" that are temporary. Women have a "shampoo and set" but
nothing is set. There's something called a "comb out", but I don't
know what's combed out.

A couple of my shots showing the difference between a barbershop and a
beauty shop:

https://photos.smugmug.com/Candids/i-tBrqcRR/0/X2/2010-01-13-30C-X2.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/Candids/i-RjWpvsJ/0/O/2012-02-16-1.jpg

[RH Draney]

Do tanners process Russian hide in some special way?...r

[charles]

In article <o022sq$t16$1...@news.albasani.net>,

I have seen what look like old fashioned striaght razors actually fitted
with a single sided safety razor blade. I've only seen them in the mirror,
though.

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

It can be misleading to see things only in the mirror. As I think I
mentioned before, the lady who cuts my hair is left-handed, but it was
more than five years before I noticed this, though I do normally notice
when people are left-handed.


--
athel

[Mack A. Damia]

On Thu, 10 Nov 2016 11:28:52 -0700, RH Draney <dado...@cox.net>
wrote:

Apparently, it is a general process of tanning leather using tree
bark. The process originated in Russia but has since spread to other
countries.

[Katy Jennison]

On 10/11/2016 15:14, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> On 11/10/16 4:01 AM, Katy Jennison wrote:
>> On 10/11/2016 09:57, charles wrote:
>>> In article <o01f43$o5d$1...@dont-email.me>,
>>> Richard Heathfield <r...@cpax.org.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 10/11/16 09:18, charles wrote:
> ...
>
>>>>> Now, they would use a razor strop.
>>>
>>>> Surely that's unlikely, nowadays?
>>>
>>> According to last weekend's Sunday Times, open blade razors are coming
>>> back. My father had a set of 7 (one for each day of the week)
>>>
>>
>> My father had two, and used them alternately.
>>
>> They certainly are coming back (if they ever left). The on-trend thing
>> here is the "Turkish barber" (there are now two such establishments here
>> in Witney) which do a proper wet shave.
>
> Maybe attraction to "two such establishments" overriding the singular
> "Turkish barber".

Ooh. Got me bang to rights. I considered trying to think up a
plausible rationale, but, well, life's too short, innit.

>> Ordinary English barbers used to do the same thing, of course, and
>> probably there are some who still do, but fashion requires a young Turk.
>
> I suspect that a lot of ordinary American barbers have a straight razor
> on hand and will shave you with it on request. I suspect this on the
> basis of one offer that a female barber made about 25 years ago, but
> that seems like proof to me. Anyway, my need for a haircut is getting
> more urgent every day, so I'll soon be able to double /and/ update my
> sample.
>
> People with other ideas about evidence can look at Web sites such as
>
> http://straightrazors.com/
>

--

Katy Jennison

[Sam Plusnet]

In article <e8i30e...@mid.individual.net>,
rob...@clubtelco.com says...
>
> On 10/11/16 3:36 am, Sam Plusnet wrote:
> > In article <MPG.328d6c21898e0a6c9899e0
> > @news.individual.net>, nob...@home.com says...
> >>
> >> In article <MPG.328c37a...@news.plus.net>, n...@home.com says...
> >>>
> >>> In article <MPG.328c31f06d234bd39899d5
> >>> @news.individual.net>, nob...@home.com says...
> >>>>
> >>>> In article <36cd5358-a4fa-4250...@googlegroups.com>,
> >>>> gram...@verizon.net says...
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Tuesday, November 8, 2016 at 5:30:05 AM UTC-5, Adam Funk wrote:

> >>>>>> On 2016-11-07, Tony Cooper wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>> Interesting usage. "He could strop for New Jersey" could catch on
> >>>>>>> here.
> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> The resident chauvinist is no doubt highly offended by being
> >>>>>> associated with a BrE term.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> No one has yet managed to figure out what Abie was trying to say
> >>>>> in that particular attempt at an insult.
> >>>>
> >>>> Oh yes they did
> >>>>
> >>> Is it Panto season already?
> >>
> >> We're still auditioning for Prince Charming.
> >>
> > Just find out who has the best-looking legs.
> >
> >
> I thought that was for the panto horse.

I have never seen a pantomime horse wearing tights, nor
slapping their thigh to add emphasis to some statement.

[Sam Plusnet]

In article <55dcc42a...@candehope.me.uk>,
cha...@candehope.me.uk says...

>
> According to last weekend's Sunday Times, open blade razors are coming
> back.
>

A particulary lethal boomerang?

[Jerry Friedman]

On Thursday, November 10, 2016 at 8:14:36 AM UTC-7, Jerry Friedman wrote:
...

> I suspect that a lot of ordinary American barbers have a straight razor
> on hand and will shave you with it on request. I suspect this on the
> basis of one offer that a female barber made about 25 years ago, but
> that seems like proof to me. Anyway, my need for a haircut is getting
> more urgent every day, so I'll soon be able to double /and/ update my sample.

...

And I did. I told my barber I was involved in an Internet
discussion about whether the word "strop" was obsolete, and
asked him whether he had one. He said no, because they're
obsolete. He used to have one, but he gave it away. His use
of "obsolete" was an exaggeration, but he thinks men who like straight razors like them mostly for tradition, and in the case
of barbershop shaves, as a relaxing luxury. He added that he
shaves himself with an open-blade razor with disposable blades.

When he worked for another barber, he had to do shaves, but he
was never very good at the honing and stropping that are
necessary.

If you'd like a professional view, he said he doesn't know
how to do "razor fade" haircuts, and he thinks they're a
waste because they look good, but only for a day. He
found shaving customers unpleasant and felt it was a waste
of money for them because the shave lasts so little time, and
a waste of time and unpleasantness for him because a shave
takes as long as a haircut but you can't charge nearly as much
for it (because it lasts so little time).

--
Jerry Friedman

[Robert Bannister]

On 10/11/16 10:40 am, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Nov 2016 10:10:30 +0800, Robert Bannister
> <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:
>
>> On 10/11/16 6:09 am, Tony Cooper wrote:

>>> On Wed, 9 Nov 2016 11:33:42 -0800 (PST), Jerry Friedman
>>> <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2016 at 12:04:15 PM UTC-7, Tony Cooper wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 9 Nov 2016 17:17:43 -0000, Janet <nob...@home.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In article <9ei42chvqqsdubddc...@4ax.com>, tonycooper214
>>>>>> @gmail.com says...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, 8 Nov 2016 18:59:09 -0000, Janet <nob...@home.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In article <0ak12c9lfbsv37j7e...@4ax.com>, tonycooper214
>>>>>>>> @gmail.com says...

>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In a book I'm reading one character, reluctant to bother another
>>>>>>>>> character, says of the other character "She could strop for England".
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> To the best of my knowledge, "strop" is not used in AmE except as a
>>>>>>>>> archiac term for a strap used to sharpen a straight razor: a razor
>>>>>>>>> strop.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The British usage seems to be "in a perpetual bad mood".
>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> No implication of "perpetual".
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "having a strop" is just an outburst of annoyance.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "stroppy" ; adjective to describe cross person.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Janet
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you describe a person as cross, you are pretty much implying that
>>>>>>> the person is perpetually cross.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not in my English. "Mrs Jones was cross when the cat ate her canary".
>>>>>> One-off event.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> But that's descriptive of a past time, and it doesn't describe Mrs
>>>>> Jones as cross. "That cross old bat who has the cat that ate her
>>>>> canary" pretty much implies perpetual crossness.
>>>>
>>>> Just like "She could strop for England" (perpetual) and "She got
>>>> stroppy" (momentary).
>>>>
>>>> When you said "the British usage" above, did you mean "She could
>>>> strop for England"? I thought you were referring to the British
>>>> usage of "strop" in general,
>>>
>>> Not in general, but in the specific: to be in a bad mood and be
>>> unpleasant to other people.
>>>
>>>> contrasted with our use.

>>>
>>> You mean our use in "razor strop" when they were used? Wasn't it
>>> called that there?
>>
>> Are you saying razor strops are not still used? Every hairdresser I've
>> been to
>
> You do realize that any American who reads that line giggles at you?

So do your hairdressers not shave the back of your neck when you get a
haircut or do they use a clean safety razor blade on each customer?

>
>> has one and uses it, and I presume those people who use an open
>> razor at home do the same.
>
> As far as I know, straight razors went out with cut-purses.
>


--
Robert B. born England a long time ago;
Western Australia since 1972

[Peter Moylan]

I've only ever known that as "strep throat". (I'm suffering from a case
of it right now, so please excuse any failure of concentration.) The
"streppy" variant is new to me.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia

[Robert Bannister]

On 10/11/16 12:38 pm, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Wed, 9 Nov 2016 19:17:52 -0800 (PST), snide...@gmail.com wrote:

>
>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2016 at 6:40:45 PM UTC-8, Tony Cooper wrote:
>>> On Thu, 10 Nov 2016 10:10:30 +0800, Robert Bannister
>>> <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:
>>>> On 10/11/16 6:09 am, Tony Cooper wrote:
>>
>>>>> You mean our use in "razor strop" when they were used? Wasn't it
>>>>> called that there?
>>>>
>>>> Are you saying razor strops are not still used? Every hairdresser I've
>>>> been to
>>>
>>> You do realize that any American who reads that line giggles at you?
>>

>> Not the ones who go to Supercuts or Fantastic Sams, which seem to keep busy.
>> Finding a traditional barber is still possible,
>> but many barbershops are staffed by stylists these days.
>
> The barbershop I currently use is staffed by male barbers. Before
> finding this place I did use that type of shop, and the stylists were
> female.
>
> The "giggle", though, is over the word "hairdresser", not the gender
> of the person wielding the scissors. At least in my English,
> "hairdresser" is used only to describe the person that does women's
> hair.

I see. I find that elsewhere the word "barber" is old-fashioned and
conjures up an image of a man who gives you a full shave or else presses
a lever that tips you into the cellar and the pie-making department.
>
> Even when I went to the chain places like you mention above, I would
> never say I was going to the hairdressers. I even resist using
> "stylist" because there's not much styling that can be done with what
> I have. What I get is "shorter".

[Robert Bannister]

On 10/11/16 5:57 pm, charles wrote:
> In article <o01f43$o5d$1...@dont-email.me>,
> Richard Heathfield <r...@cpax.org.uk> wrote:
>> On 10/11/16 09:18, charles wrote:

>>> In article <o01dmf$jhc$1...@dont-email.me>,
>>> Richard Heathfield <r...@cpax.org.uk> wrote:

>>>> On 10/11/16 02:40, Tony Cooper wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 10 Nov 2016 10:10:30 +0800, Robert Bannister
>>>>> <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 10/11/16 6:09 am, Tony Cooper wrote:

>>>> <snip>

>>>>>>> You mean our use in "razor strop" when they were used? Wasn't it
>>>>>>> called that there?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Are you saying razor strops are not still used? Every hairdresser I've
>>>>>> been to
>>>>>
>>>>> You do realize that any American who reads that line giggles at you?
>>>

>>>> What's wrong with going to a hairdresser? Do Americans really giggle at
>>>> such things? *All* Americans?
>>>

>>> I suspect the "giggle" is at the use of "hairdresser" for men.
>

>> I suspect you're right. But it's like giggling on being introduced to a
>> man called Leslie (such as Leslie Nielsen, the actor) or Tracy (such as
>> Tracy Smothers, the wrestler) or Marion (such as John Wayne).
>

>>> The more
>>> masculine version is "barber" - or beard trimmer.
>

>> Maybe to you it's more masculine. To me, a barber is someone who puts a
>> pudding bowl on your head and cuts around the rim, whereas a hairdresser
>> is someone who understands about things like ears. I'm sure I am grossly
>> mis-characterising the barbers of this world on the basis of a childhood
>> prejudice, but there it is.
>

>>> Now, they would use a razor strop.
>
>> Surely that's unlikely, nowadays?
>

> According to last weekend's Sunday Times, open blade razors are coming

> back. My father had a set of 7 (one for each day of the week)
>

I think it's a fashion thing. I've even contemplated it myself, but
decided I was too old to learn a complicated and possibly dangerous new
procedure.

[Robert Bannister]

On 10/11/16 7:01 pm, Katy Jennison wrote:

> My father had two, and used them alternately.
>
> They certainly are coming back (if they ever left). The on-trend thing
> here is the "Turkish barber" (there are now two such establishments here
> in Witney) which do a proper wet shave.
>

> Ordinary English barbers used to do the same thing, of course, and
> probably there are some who still do, but fashion requires a young Turk.
>

What I haven't seen since I was a child is beard singeing. I asked my
hairdresser about it, and he said he used to do it back in the Dark
Ages, but that there was no call for it these days.