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To deliver on a promise

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Hibou

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Mar 15, 2023, 5:11:37 AM3/15/23
to
I find 'to deliver on a promise' (common in politics, fairly recent, and
apparently of American origin) conjures an image of a tipper lorry
dropping a load of coal. I expect that's just me, since people would not
use the expression if they had this picture in their minds - or would they?

Whatever happened to 'keep', 'fulfil', or 'honour' a promise? Since I
don't seem to hear them any more, I'm surprised to find they're still
alive (though 'honour''s looking a bit peelie-wally, as one might expect
in the realm of politics):

<https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=deliver+on+a+promise%2Ckeep+a+promise%2Cfulfil+a+promise%2Chonour+a+promise%2Cfulfill+a+promise%2Chonor+a+promise&year_start=1800&year_end=2019&corpus=en-GB-2019&smoothing=3>

<https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=deliver+on+a+promise%2Ckeep+a+promise%2Cfulfil+a+promise%2Chonour+a+promise%2Cfulfill+a+promise%2Chonor+a+promise&year_start=1800&year_end=2019&corpus=en-US-2019&smoothing=3

Hibou

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Mar 15, 2023, 5:13:48 AM3/15/23
to
[Angle bracket added to stop the link breaking.]

Peter T. Daniels

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Mar 15, 2023, 9:08:53 AM3/15/23
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On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 5:11:37 AM UTC-4, Hibou wrote:

> I find 'to deliver on a promise' (common in politics, fairly recent, and
> apparently of American origin) conjures an image of a tipper lorry

I suspect that's a "dump truck."

> dropping a load of coal. I expect that's just me, since people would not
> use the expression if they had this picture in their minds - or would they?

Coal hasn't been used in furnaces in residential buildings in decades,
and truckloads might be inadequate for the power plants that still use
it, so it's unlikely that image would arise.

> Whatever happened to 'keep', 'fulfil', or 'honour' a promise? Since I
> don't seem to hear them any more, I'm surprised to find they're still
> alive (though 'honour''s looking a bit peelie-wally, as one might expect
> in the realm of politics):

I don't know about Over There, but a slogan heard in the last presidential
campaign was "Promises made, promises kept."

Maybe "deliver" is a Brit cliché, whatever its origin.

> <https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=deliver+on+a+promise%2Ckeep+a+promise%2Cfulfil+a+promise%2Chonour+a+promise%2Cfulfill+a+promise%2Chonor+a+promise&year_start=1800&year_end=2019&corpus=en-GB-2019&smoothing=3>
>
> <https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=deliver+on+a+promise%2Ckeep+a+promise%2Cfulfil+a+promise%2Chonour+a+promise%2Cfulfill+a+promise%2Chonor+a+promise&year_start=1800&year_end=2019&corpus=en-US-2019&smoothing=3

lar3ryca

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Mar 15, 2023, 11:50:39 AM3/15/23
to
On 2023-03-15 03:11, Hibou wrote:
> I find 'to deliver on a promise' (common in politics, fairly recent, and
> apparently of American origin) conjures an image of a tipper lorry
> dropping a load of coal. I expect that's just me, since people would not
> use the expression if they had this picture in their minds - or would they?

If it's American in origin, it should conjure _up_ an image of a dump
truck dropping a load of coal.

> Whatever happened to 'keep', 'fulfil', or 'honour' a promise? Since I
> don't seem to hear them any more, I'm surprised to find they're still
> alive (though 'honour''s looking a bit peelie-wally, as one might expect
> in the realm of politics):

They are still around, but if you think of 'deliver on a promise' as
just another multi-word phrase used in place of a single word, you and I
would, at this point in time, be on the same page at the end of the day.

> <https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=deliver+on+a+promise%2Ckeep+a+promise%2Cfulfil+a+promise%2Chonour+a+promise%2Cfulfill+a+promise%2Chonor+a+promise&year_start=1800&year_end=2019&corpus=en-GB-2019&smoothing=3>
>
> <https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=deliver+on+a+promise%2Ckeep+a+promise%2Cfulfil+a+promise%2Chonour+a+promise%2Cfulfill+a+promise%2Chonor+a+promise&year_start=1800&year_end=2019&corpus=en-US-2019&smoothing=3

--
When you earnestly believe you can compensate for a lack of skill
by doubling your efforts, there's no end to what you can't do.

Hibou

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Mar 16, 2023, 4:58:50 AM3/16/23
to
Le 15/03/2023 à 13:08, Peter T. Daniels a écrit :
> On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 5:11:37 AM UTC-4, Hibou wrote:
>>
>> I find 'to deliver on a promise' (common in politics, fairly recent, and
>> apparently of American origin) conjures an image of a tipper lorry
>
> I suspect that's a "dump truck."

As ever, GETA (Google est ton ami).

>> dropping a load of coal. I expect that's just me, since people would not
>> use the expression if they had this picture in their minds - or would they?
>
> Coal hasn't been used in furnaces in residential buildings in decades,
> and truckloads might be inadequate for the power plants that still use
> it, so it's unlikely that image would arise.

Depends on where in the world one is (I watched a German documentary
recently about alternatives to gas, and it would seem coal is popular
over there for residential heating). But let's say the image is of a
tipper lorry dropping a load of MacGuffins on to a promissory note.

>> Whatever happened to 'keep', 'fulfil', or 'honour' a promise? Since I
>> don't seem to hear them any more, I'm surprised to find they're still
>> alive (though 'honour''s looking a bit peelie-wally, as one might expect
>> in the realm of politics):
>
> I don't know about Over There, but a slogan heard in the last presidential
> campaign was "Promises made, promises kept."

Well, one swallow doesn't make a summer.
If you look at these Ngrams, you'll find that it is twice as common in
American (books) as in British ones.

The early examples (pre-1950) found by Google Books are all American.

In general, you may take it that before I say something in a forum, I've
taken it for a test drive.

occam

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Mar 16, 2023, 5:34:53 AM3/16/23
to
On 15/03/2023 10:11, Hibou wrote:
> I find 'to deliver on a promise' (common in politics, fairly recent, and
> apparently of American origin) conjures an image of a tipper lorry
> dropping a load of coal. I expect that's just me, since people would not
> use the expression if they had this picture in their minds - or would they?
>
> Whatever happened to 'keep', 'fulfil', or 'honour' a promise? Since I
> don't seem to hear them any more, I'm surprised to find they're still
> alive


They are all alive and well, as your Ngram shows.

The reason why politicians (and businessmen) may prefer 'to deliver..."
is probably because it suggest a proactive deed, rather that the more
passive 'keep', 'honour', 'abide by' etc.

I may keep a promise by doing nothing (e.g. keeping my mouth shut),
however 'delivering' implies getting off my arse and doing something
positive (e.g. lowering taxes, building more houses, etc.).

Hibou

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Mar 16, 2023, 6:00:00 AM3/16/23
to
Le 16/03/2023 à 09:34, occam a écrit :
>
> The reason why politicians (and businessmen) may prefer 'to deliver..."
> is probably because it suggest a proactive deed, rather that the more
> passive 'keep', 'honour', 'abide by' etc.
>
> I may keep a promise by doing nothing (e.g. keeping my mouth shut),
> however 'delivering' implies getting off my arse and doing something
> positive (e.g. lowering taxes, building more houses, etc.).

Yes, that could be it.

Peter T. Daniels

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Mar 16, 2023, 12:04:12 PM3/16/23
to
On Thursday, March 16, 2023 at 4:58:50 AM UTC-4, Hibou wrote:
> Le 15/03/2023 à 13:08, Peter T. Daniels a écrit :
> > On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 5:11:37 AM UTC-4, Hibou wrote:

> >> I find 'to deliver on a promise' (common in politics, fairly recent, and
> >> apparently of American origin) conjures an image of a tipper lorry
> >
> > I suspect that's a "dump truck."
>
> As ever, GETA (Google est ton ami).

? To do what? Interpret a weird Briticism?

Does the verb "suspect" not alert you to a pleasantry?

> >> dropping a load of coal. I expect that's just me, since people would not
> >> use the expression if they had this picture in their minds - or would they?
> > Coal hasn't been used in furnaces in residential buildings in decades,
> > and truckloads might be inadequate for the power plants that still use
> > it, so it's unlikely that image would arise.
>
> Depends on where in the world one is (I watched a German documentary
> recently about alternatives to gas, and it would seem coal is popular
> over there for residential heating). But let's say the image is of a
> tipper lorry dropping a load of MacGuffins on to a promissory note.

Maguffins are not physical objects.

> >> Whatever happened to 'keep', 'fulfil', or 'honour' a promise? Since I
> >> don't seem to hear them any more, I'm surprised to find they're still
> >> alive (though 'honour''s looking a bit peelie-wally, as one might expect
> >> in the realm of politics):
> > I don't know about Over There, but a slogan heard in the last presidential
> > campaign was "Promises made, promises kept."
>
> Well, one swallow doesn't make a summer.

(Recte, "does not a summer make")

> > Maybe "deliver" is a Brit cliché, whatever its origin.
> >> <https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=deliver+on+a+promise%2Ckeep+a+promise%2Cfulfil+a+promise%2Chonour+a+promise%2Cfulfill+a+promise%2Chonor+a+promise&year_start=1800&year_end=2019&corpus=en-GB-2019&smoothing=3>
> >>
> >> <https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=deliver+on+a+promise%2Ckeep+a+promise%2Cfulfil+a+promise%2Chonour+a+promise%2Cfulfill+a+promise%2Chonor+a+promise&year_start=1800&year_end=2019&corpus=en-US-2019&smoothing=3>
> If you look at these Ngrams, you'll find that it is twice as common in
> American (books) as in British ones.
>
> The early examples (pre-1950) found by Google Books are all American.
>
> In general, you may take it that before I say something in a forum, I've
> taken it for a test drive.

As I said, its _origin_ does not determine its _use_.

AmE preserves a number of older usages that have been lost from BrE.

TonyCooper

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Mar 16, 2023, 12:28:58 PM3/16/23
to
On Thu, 16 Mar 2023 09:04:09 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
<gram...@verizon.net> wrote:

>On Thursday, March 16, 2023 at 4:58:50?AM UTC-4, Hibou wrote:
>> Le 15/03/2023 ą 13:08, Peter T. Daniels a écrit :
>> > On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 5:11:37?AM UTC-4, Hibou wrote:
>
>> >> I find 'to deliver on a promise' (common in politics, fairly recent, and
>> >> apparently of American origin) conjures an image of a tipper lorry
>> >
>> > I suspect that's a "dump truck."
>>
>> As ever, GETA (Google est ton ami).
>
>? To do what? Interpret a weird Briticism?

One wonders if "dump truck" is not a "weird Americanism" for a lorry
that can tip the contents out.



--

Tony Cooper - Orlando,Florida

Kerr-Mudd, John

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Mar 16, 2023, 4:22:35 PM3/16/23
to
On Thu, 16 Mar 2023 12:28:55 -0400
TonyCooper <tonyco...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, 16 Mar 2023 09:04:09 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> >On Thursday, March 16, 2023 at 4:58:50?AM UTC-4, Hibou wrote:
> >> Le 15/03/2023 à 13:08, Peter T. Daniels a écrit :
> >> > On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 5:11:37?AM UTC-4, Hibou wrote:
> >
> >> >> I find 'to deliver on a promise' (common in politics, fairly recent, and
> >> >> apparently of American origin) conjures an image of a tipper lorry
> >> >
> >> > I suspect that's a "dump truck."
> >>
> >> As ever, GETA (Google est ton ami).
> >
> >? To do what? Interpret a weird Briticism?
>
> One wonders if "dump truck" is not a "weird Americanism" for a lorry
> that can tip the contents out.
>
Data point: I (here in the UK) have always called them 'dumper trucks'.


--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

Peter T. Daniels

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Mar 16, 2023, 5:28:11 PM3/16/23
to
Why did you fail to quote the next sentence for your stooges?

Sam Plusnet

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Mar 16, 2023, 8:34:23 PM3/16/23
to
From a similar corner of the UK, I observe a distinction between:

A Dumper truck - one of those large, bright yellow things, used in
open-cast quarries and earth-moving groundwork. Their load-bed is shaped
somewhat like a builder's skip[1].

And a Tipper lorry - much like a conventional lorry with a flat=bed,
sides and a tailgate, but the front of the flat-bed is lifted up, just
behind the cabin, by a large hydraulic ram - so that the content slides
out of the (open) tailgate.

[1] The lorries that carry builder's skips around are another thing
altogether.

--
Sam Plusnet

TonyCooper

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Mar 16, 2023, 9:26:30 PM3/16/23
to
On Fri, 17 Mar 2023 00:34:18 +0000, Sam Plusnet <n...@home.com> wrote:

>On 16-Mar-23 20:22, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
>> On Thu, 16 Mar 2023 12:28:55 -0400
>> TonyCooper <tonyco...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 16 Mar 2023 09:04:09 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
>>> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Thursday, March 16, 2023 at 4:58:50?AM UTC-4, Hibou wrote:
>>>>> Le 15/03/2023 ą 13:08, Peter T. Daniels a écrit :
>>>>>> On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 5:11:37?AM UTC-4, Hibou wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>> I find 'to deliver on a promise' (common in politics, fairly recent, and
>>>>>>> apparently of American origin) conjures an image of a tipper lorry
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I suspect that's a "dump truck."
>>>>>
>>>>> As ever, GETA (Google est ton ami).
>>>>
>>>> ? To do what? Interpret a weird Briticism?
>>>
>>> One wonders if "dump truck" is not a "weird Americanism" for a lorry
>>> that can tip the contents out.
>>>
>> Data point: I (here in the UK) have always called them 'dumper trucks'.
>
> From a similar corner of the UK, I observe a distinction between:
>
>A Dumper truck - one of those large, bright yellow things, used in
>open-cast quarries and earth-moving groundwork. Their load-bed is shaped
>somewhat like a builder's skip[1].
>
>And a Tipper lorry - much like a conventional lorry with a flat=bed,
>sides and a tailgate, but the front of the flat-bed is lifted up, just
>behind the cabin, by a large hydraulic ram - so that the content slides
>out of the (open) tailgate.
>
>[1] The lorries that carry builder's skips around are another thing
>altogether.

Sam! You are using yet another weird British term in - what I can
only assume to be a deliberately provocative manner. A "skip", in the
US, is a hitch in one's stride that follows a hop and precedes a jump.
Or, it can be a person who has disappeared in order to avoid debt or
arrest.

That container that builders, and others, use is properly called a
"dumpster". The product was originally called a Dempster-Dumpster by
its originator - the Dempster Brothers, Inc - in 1935. The 88 years
that have past since the introduction of the product has certainly
been a sufficient amount of time for you to take up the less-weird
name.

"Dumpster" is a word that lends itself much better to describing
political fuck-ups. Who would want to use "skip fire" when "dumpster
fire" is available?

Peter Moylan

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Mar 16, 2023, 9:55:03 PM3/16/23
to
One garbage-handling company here had a slogan on the side of its
trucks: To the dump, to the dump, to the dump dump dump.

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

Sam Plusnet

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Mar 16, 2023, 10:48:50 PM3/16/23
to
On 17-Mar-23 1:26, TonyCooper wrote:

> That container that builders, and others, use is properly called a
> "dumpster".

In AmE you are no doubt correct. However that word isn't part of BrE,
and the object is not called that (even incorrectly) in the UK.

We have to find other places to build a fire.

--
Sam Plusnet

TonyCooper

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Mar 17, 2023, 1:17:23 AM3/17/23
to
When people in the UK look for discarded treasures in other people's
trash, do they go "skip-diving"? Or "skip scrounging" for
alliteration?

Kerr-Mudd, John

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Mar 17, 2023, 6:14:47 AM3/17/23
to
I like what you did there by skipping mention of the Skip Lorry.

How about: Will the panel please discuss "what is a van?"

Flower delivery moped type van up to house removal van, but not including a
covered utility truck, or possibly a station wagon (really? you can get
that much in it?)

Janet

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Mar 17, 2023, 10:21:42 AM3/17/23
to
In article <9ot71it6b2pqke83t...@4ax.com>,
tonyco...@gmail.com says...
Skip diving. A treasure trove.

When she was 70+, skip-diving mother in law fell into
the skip and broke her ribs.

Janet

Athel Cornish-Bowden

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Mar 17, 2023, 12:25:43 PM3/17/23
to
You may be in the van of a new movement.
>
> Flower delivery moped type van up to house removal van, but not including a
> covered utility truck, or possibly a station wagon (really? you can get
> that much in it?)


--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 36 years; mainly
in England until 1987.

lar3ryca

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Mar 17, 2023, 12:28:25 PM3/17/23
to
On 2023-03-17 08:21, Janet wrote:
> In article <9ot71it6b2pqke83t...@4ax.com>,
> tonyco...@gmail.com says...
>>
>> On Fri, 17 Mar 2023 02:48:43 +0000, Sam Plusnet <n...@home.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 17-Mar-23 1:26, TonyCooper wrote:
>>>
>>>> That container that builders, and others, use is properly called a
>>>> "dumpster".
>>>
>>> In AmE you are no doubt correct. However that word isn't part of BrE,
>>> and the object is not called that (even incorrectly) in the UK.
>>>
>>> We have to find other places to build a fire.
>>
>> When people in the UK look for discarded treasures in other people's
>> trash, do they go "skip-diving"? Or "skip scrounging" for
>> alliteration?
>
> Skip diving. A treasure trove.

Sounds like a Summer Olympics sport.

> When she was 70+, skip-diving mother in law fell into
> the skip and broke her ribs.
>
> Janet

--
Light travels faster than sound. That's why some people
appear bright until you hear them speak.

Sam Plusnet

unread,
Mar 17, 2023, 3:25:42 PM3/17/23
to
On 17-Mar-23 10:14, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
> How about: Will the panel please discuss "what is a van?"


There are a few specially configured vans, tailored to specific
purposes, and then there's the general purpose van ordinaire.

--
Sam Plusnet

Peter Moylan

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Mar 17, 2023, 9:16:56 PM3/17/23
to
<like>

Jerry Friedman

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Mar 17, 2023, 9:30:43 PM3/17/23
to
So that's not the one that has a guard?

--
Jerry Friedman

Sam Plusnet

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Mar 17, 2023, 11:12:56 PM3/17/23
to
Did I cause an affront?

--
Sam Plusnet

TonyCooper

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Mar 18, 2023, 8:59:58 AM3/18/23
to
On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 03:12:51 +0000, Sam Plusnet <n...@home.com> wrote:

>On 18-Mar-23 1:30, Jerry Friedman wrote:
>> On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 1:25:42?PM UTC-6, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>>> On 17-Mar-23 10:14, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
>>>> How about: Will the panel please discuss "what is a van?"
>>> There are a few specially configured vans, tailored to specific
>>> purposes, and then there's the general purpose van ordinaire.
>>
>> So that's not the one that has a guard?
>
>Did I cause an affront?

Yes, you are now in arrears.

Athel Cornish-Bowden

unread,
Mar 18, 2023, 10:12:13 AM3/18/23
to
Yes, but someone will back him up.

TonyCooper

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Mar 18, 2023, 10:56:15 AM3/18/23
to
On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 15:12:06 +0100, Athel Cornish-Bowden
<athe...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 2023-03-18 12:59:57 +0000, TonyCooper said:
>
>> On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 03:12:51 +0000, Sam Plusnet <n...@home.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 18-Mar-23 1:30, Jerry Friedman wrote:
>>>> On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 1:25:42?PM UTC-6, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>>>>> On 17-Mar-23 10:14, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
>>>>>> How about: Will the panel please discuss "what is a van?"
>>>>> There are a few specially configured vans, tailored to specific
>>>>> purposes, and then there's the general purpose van ordinaire.
>>>>
>>>> So that's not the one that has a guard?
>>>
>>> Did I cause an affront?
>>
>> Yes, you are now in arrears.
>
>Yes, but someone will back him up.

And then forward him to another address?

Sam Plusnet

unread,
Mar 18, 2023, 5:02:40 PM3/18/23
to
On 18-Mar-23 14:12, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> On 2023-03-18 12:59:57 +0000, TonyCooper said:
>
>> On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 03:12:51 +0000, Sam Plusnet <n...@home.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 18-Mar-23 1:30, Jerry Friedman wrote:
>>>> On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 1:25:42?PM UTC-6, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>>>>> On 17-Mar-23 10:14, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
>>>>>> How about: Will the panel please discuss "what is a van?"
>>>>> There are a few specially configured vans, tailored to specific
>>>>> purposes, and then there's the general purpose van ordinaire.
>>>>
>>>> So that's not the one that has a guard?
>>>
>>> Did I cause an affront?
>>
>> Yes, you are now in arrears.
>
> Yes, but someone will back him up.

I do hope not. I can't stand that terrible beeping noise.

(I was going to make a joke about not needing a banksman, but that
doesn't travel well (dogman for Au & NZ, spotter for the US, dunno for
Canada & etc.)

--
Sam Plusnet

Snidely

unread,
Mar 25, 2023, 5:52:35 AM3/25/23
to
Lo, on the 3/17/2023, Peter Moylan did proclaim ...
> On 18/03/23 06:25, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>> On 17-Mar-23 10:14, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
>>> How about: Will the panel please discuss "what is a van?"
>>
>>
>> There are a few specially configured vans, tailored to specific
>> purposes, and then there's the general purpose van ordinaire.
>
> <like>

I'm still coughing.

/dps

--
Killing a mouse was hardly a Nobel Prize-worthy exercise, and Lawrence
went apopleptic when he learned a lousy rodent had peed away all his
precious heavy water.
_The Disappearing Spoon_, Sam Kean

occam

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Mar 25, 2023, 6:01:48 AM3/25/23
to
Ross'init?

Peter Moylan

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Mar 25, 2023, 6:33:33 AM3/25/23
to
Most people seeing that slogan wouldn't be highbrow enough to recognise
that. But everyone knows the Lone Ranger Overture.

Peter T. Daniels

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Mar 25, 2023, 9:05:50 AM3/25/23
to
On Saturday, March 25, 2023 at 6:33:33 AM UTC-4, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 25/03/23 21:01, occam wrote:
> > On 17/03/2023 02:54, Peter Moylan wrote:

> >> One garbage-handling company here had a slogan on the side of its
> >> trucks: To the dump, to the dump, to the dump dump dump.
> > Ross'init?
>
> Most people seeing that slogan wouldn't be highbrow enough to recognise
> that. But everyone knows the Lone Ranger Overture.

FSVO "everyone" ... that was a very long time ago.

On *Jeopardy!*, I'm constantly struck by how little the contestants
in general know about even the 1980s. The other day, not one of
them recognized the date, or maybe it was the year, of JFK's
assassination (11/22/63).

occam

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Mar 25, 2023, 10:19:10 AM3/25/23
to
On 25/03/2023 11:33, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 25/03/23 21:01, occam wrote:
>> On 17/03/2023 02:54, Peter Moylan wrote:
>
>>> One garbage-handling company here had a slogan on the side of its
>>> trucks: To the dump, to the dump, to the dump dump dump.
>>
>> Ross'init?
>
> Most people seeing that slogan wouldn't be highbrow enough to recognise
> that. But everyone knows the Lone Ranger Overture.
>

Well, in the highbrow spectrum - somewhere between the Lone Ranger (1)
and the composer Rossini (10) - there was another UK TV series called
The Adventures of William Tell. That overture always conjures up
William Tell rather than the Lone Ranger for me.

Sam Plusnet

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Mar 25, 2023, 4:36:38 PM3/25/23
to
Yerbut.
Lone Ranger (TV series) 1949 to 1957
William Tell (TV series) 1958 to 1959

There's a lot of people out there today who wouldn't have come across
either programme. Even repeats have their limits.

--
Sam Plusnet

Peter Moylan

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Mar 25, 2023, 6:59:49 PM3/25/23
to
Sometimes I feel that there's a lot about the period 1950-1980, roughly,
that doesn't make it onto the WWW. It's too recent for historians, and
too far in the remote past for the sort of people who create web sites.

Luckily, books still exist.

Athel Cornish-Bowden

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Mar 26, 2023, 2:23:21 AM3/26/23
to
I would be one of those.

> Even repeats have their limits.


--

Athel Cornish-Bowden

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Mar 26, 2023, 2:37:32 AM3/26/23
to
I find that very frustrating when trying to check information at
Wikipedia. For example, suppose I know that Dr X was a distinguished
professor at the University of Y in the 1970s,and I want to find out
more. So I go to the website of the University of Y. There I can find
out who founded the university in 1834,and who is on its faculty today,
and the research that its youngsters are doing that will get the Nobel
Prize in 2045. But can I find out anything about people who were
prominent in 1976? No. I can't even find their names.
>
> Luckily, books still exist.


--

Peter Moylan

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Mar 26, 2023, 3:04:44 AM3/26/23
to
At my university we had a fairly informative web site as long as it was
run by our department, but then a directive came from above that all
department web sites would be replaced by a single university web site.
Fair enough, except that the people they put in charge of implementing
it seemed to be specialists in information hiding. It ended up being
visually attractive, but almost useless.

We had an almighty fight over making student materials (lecture notes,
etc.) available for download, something we had been doing for several
years. The deputy vice-chancellor for advertising, or whatever her title
was, had been recruited from Ballarat University. Now, Ballarat was not
originally a university, but a technical college or teacher's college or
something like that, that had been renamed a university during the great
national renaming that gave Australia a huge number of new universities.
I presume that by now they've managed to hire qualified staff, but back
then it didn't have a good reputation.

Her point of view was that things like lecture notes and lab
instructions were copyright material that was owned by the university,
not by the author, and should not be visible for other universities to
copy. The argument went something like this.

"Look, they make lecture notes available at lots of universities. They
do it at Stanford. They do it at MIT. They do it at Berkeley. They do it
at Cambridge."

"But not at Ballarat!"

We thought that was supposed to be a joke, but she was serious.

bil...@shaw.ca

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Mar 26, 2023, 3:23:05 AM3/26/23
to
Forgiveable, just past middle March.

bill (van)


Sergio Gatti

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Mar 26, 2023, 4:45:30 AM3/26/23
to
Peter Moylan hat am 25.03.2023 um 23:59 geschrieben:
> On 26/03/23 00:05, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>> On *Jeopardy!*, I'm constantly struck by how little the contestants
>> in general know about even the 1980s. The other day, not one of them
>> recognized the date, or maybe it was the year, of JFK's assassination
>> (11/22/63).

Perhaps younger people hear about it at school *in the US*. Not
elsewhere, though.

I have a similar problem about some German trivia, like very popular
songs and TV programs before I moved here in the 1980s.



> Sometimes I feel that there's a lot about the period 1950-1980, roughly,
> that doesn't make it onto the WWW. It's too recent for historians, and
> too far in the remote past for the sort of people who create web sites.

Don't forget copyright issues.

Athel Cornish-Bowden

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Mar 26, 2023, 5:20:10 AM3/26/23
to
On 2023-03-26 07:04:36 +0000, Peter Moylan said:

> On 26/03/23 17:37, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>> On 2023-03-25 22:59:43 +0000, Peter Moylan said:
>
>>> Sometimes I feel that there's a lot about the period 1950-1980,
>>> roughly, that doesn't make it onto the WWW. It's too recent for
>>> historians, and too far in the remote past for the sort of people
>>> who create web sites.
>>
>> I find that very frustrating when trying to check information at
>> Wikipedia. For example, suppose I know that Dr X was a distinguished
>> professor at the University of Y in the 1970s,and I want to find out
>> more. So I go to the website of the University of Y. There I can
>> find out who founded the university in 1834,and who is on its faculty
>> today, and the research that its youngsters are doing that will get
>> the Nobel Prize in 2045. But can I find out anything about people who
>> were prominent in 1976? No. I can't even find their names.
>
> At my university we had a fairly informative web site as long as it was
> run by our department, but then a directive came from above that all
> department web sites would be replaced by a single university web site.
> Fair enough, except that the people they put in charge of implementing
> it seemed to be specialists in information hiding. It ended up being
> visually attractive, but almost useless.

"visually attractive, but almost useless" describes almost all web
sites run by administrators, though not all are visually attractive.
>
> We had an almighty fight over making student materials (lecture notes,
> etc.) available for download, something we had been doing for several
> years. The deputy vice-chancellor for advertising, or whatever her title
> was, had been recruited from Ballarat University. Now, Ballarat was not
> originally a university, but a technical college or teacher's college or
> something like that, that had been renamed a university during the great
> national renaming that gave Australia a huge number of new universities.
> I presume that by now they've managed to hire qualified staff, but back
> then it didn't have a good reputation.
>
> Her point of view was that things like lecture notes and lab
> instructions were copyright material that was owned by the university,
> not by the author, and should not be visible for other universities to
> copy. The argument went something like this.
>
> "Look, they make lecture notes available at lots of universities. They
> do it at Stanford. They do it at MIT. They do it at Berkeley. They do it
> at Cambridge."
>
> "But not at Ballarat!"
>
> We thought that was supposed to be a joke, but she was serious.


--

occam

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Mar 26, 2023, 6:24:29 AM3/26/23
to
On 26/03/2023 11:20, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> On 2023-03-26 07:04:36 +0000, Peter Moylan said:
>
>> On 26/03/23 17:37, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>>> On 2023-03-25 22:59:43 +0000, Peter Moylan said:
>>
>>>> Sometimes I feel that there's a lot about the period 1950-1980,
>>>> roughly, that doesn't make it onto the WWW. It's too recent for
>>>> historians, and too far in the remote past for the sort of people
>>>> who create web sites.
>>>
>>> I find that very frustrating when trying to check information at
>>> Wikipedia. For example, suppose I know that Dr X was a distinguished
>>> professor at the University of Y in the 1970s,and I want to find out
>>> more. So I go to the website of the University of Y. There I can
>>> find out who founded the university in 1834,and who is on its faculty
>>> today, and the research that its youngsters are doing that will get
>>> the Nobel Prize in 2045. But can I find out anything about people who
>>> were prominent in 1976? No. I can't even find their names.
>>
>> At my university we had a fairly informative web site as long as it was
>> run by our department, but then a directive came from above that all
>> department web sites would be replaced by a single university web site.
>> Fair enough, except that the people they put in charge of implementing
>> it seemed to be specialists in information hiding. It ended up being
>> visually attractive, but almost useless.

In a past life, my working definition of 'information hiding' on a web
site was having an item on a page which could be not be reached with
three (or less) clicks. Not quite useless, but virtually undiscoverable
by those not committed enough.

>
> "visually attractive, but almost useless" describes almost all web sites
> run by administrators, though not all are visually attractive.

Not from the perspective of the administrators, presumably. We all have
our own perspective of information - what is important and what is not.
If an administrator cannot reach his own résumé page (with photo) within
two clicks, I am guessing that site is useless from one's perspective.


lar3ryca

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Mar 26, 2023, 1:17:51 PM3/26/23
to
It seems to work, though for our unrespected regular, putting
information on a website seems to do the job.

>> "visually attractive, but almost useless" describes almost all web sites
>> run by administrators, though not all are visually attractive.
>
> Not from the perspective of the administrators, presumably. We all have
> our own perspective of information - what is important and what is not.
> If an administrator cannot reach his own résumé page (with photo) within
> two clicks, I am guessing that site is useless from one's perspective.
>
>

--
roses are 0xFF0000
violets are 0x0000FF
all my base
are belong to you

bil...@shaw.ca

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Mar 26, 2023, 4:44:05 PM3/26/23
to
There are one or two channels on my cable TV menu that carry programming
from the 1950s through the '90s. If no one has managed to squirrel away the rights
for a rainy day, those programs cost nothing or next to nothing to put on the air
or cable, more likely) and you can always draw a small audience for whatever advertising
you can find.

MeTv is one channel that shows such programs in my region. It comes in one of those
packages of channels that the cable company sells as part of a bundle because nobody
would buy them as stand-alones. But if you have that bundle in your cable lineup and you're
laid up due to illness or you're out of work, or retired and bored, voila, there they are: The Rifleman,
Wanted Dead or Alive, Wagon Train, Paladin and yes, The Lone Ranger.

bill

bruce bowser

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Mar 26, 2023, 4:50:11 PM3/26/23
to
On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 5:11:37 AM UTC-4, Hibou wrote:
> I find 'to deliver on a promise' (common in politics, fairly recent, and
> apparently of American origin) conjures an image of a tipper lorry
> dropping a load of coal. I expect that's just me, since people would not
> use the expression if they had this picture in their minds - or would they?
>
> Whatever happened to 'keep', 'fulfil', or 'honour' a promise?
There is also "make good" and "deliver" on a promise. [Il y a aussi "rendre bon" et "livrer" sur une promesse.] (the French translation is sometimes preferred).

TonyCooper

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Mar 26, 2023, 4:57:09 PM3/26/23
to
On Sun, 26 Mar 2023 13:44:02 -0700 (PDT), "bil...@shaw.ca"
<bil...@shaw.ca> wrote:
The William Tell Overture Finale has been included in many
cartoons...here in a Looney Tunes cartoon:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTWBkvSzl-g

While TV shows become dated, cartoons never die. They are just as
appealing to a rug rat today as they were to a rug rat when they first
came out.

Peter T. Daniels

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Mar 26, 2023, 7:58:14 PM3/26/23