To deliver on a promise

[Hibou]

I find 'to deliver on a promise' (common in politics, fairly recent, and
apparently of American origin) conjures an image of a tipper lorry
dropping a load of coal. I expect that's just me, since people would not
use the expression if they had this picture in their minds - or would they?

Whatever happened to 'keep', 'fulfil', or 'honour' a promise? Since I
don't seem to hear them any more, I'm surprised to find they're still
alive (though 'honour''s looking a bit peelie-wally, as one might expect
in the realm of politics):

<https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=deliver+on+a+promise%2Ckeep+a+promise%2Cfulfil+a+promise%2Chonour+a+promise%2Cfulfill+a+promise%2Chonor+a+promise&year_start=1800&year_end=2019&corpus=en-GB-2019&smoothing=3>

<https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=deliver+on+a+promise%2Ckeep+a+promise%2Cfulfil+a+promise%2Chonour+a+promise%2Cfulfill+a+promise%2Chonor+a+promise&year_start=1800&year_end=2019&corpus=en-US-2019&smoothing=3

[Hibou]

[Angle bracket added to stop the link breaking.]

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 5:11:37 AM UTC-4, Hibou wrote:

> I find 'to deliver on a promise' (common in politics, fairly recent, and
> apparently of American origin) conjures an image of a tipper lorry

I suspect that's a "dump truck."

> dropping a load of coal. I expect that's just me, since people would not
> use the expression if they had this picture in their minds - or would they?

Coal hasn't been used in furnaces in residential buildings in decades,
and truckloads might be inadequate for the power plants that still use
it, so it's unlikely that image would arise.

> Whatever happened to 'keep', 'fulfil', or 'honour' a promise? Since I
> don't seem to hear them any more, I'm surprised to find they're still
> alive (though 'honour''s looking a bit peelie-wally, as one might expect
> in the realm of politics):

I don't know about Over There, but a slogan heard in the last presidential
campaign was "Promises made, promises kept."

Maybe "deliver" is a Brit cliché, whatever its origin.

> <https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=deliver+on+a+promise%2Ckeep+a+promise%2Cfulfil+a+promise%2Chonour+a+promise%2Cfulfill+a+promise%2Chonor+a+promise&year_start=1800&year_end=2019&corpus=en-GB-2019&smoothing=3>
>
> <https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=deliver+on+a+promise%2Ckeep+a+promise%2Cfulfil+a+promise%2Chonour+a+promise%2Cfulfill+a+promise%2Chonor+a+promise&year_start=1800&year_end=2019&corpus=en-US-2019&smoothing=3

[lar3ryca]

On 2023-03-15 03:11, Hibou wrote:
> I find 'to deliver on a promise' (common in politics, fairly recent, and
> apparently of American origin) conjures an image of a tipper lorry
> dropping a load of coal. I expect that's just me, since people would not
> use the expression if they had this picture in their minds - or would they?

If it's American in origin, it should conjure _up_ an image of a dump
truck dropping a load of coal.

> Whatever happened to 'keep', 'fulfil', or 'honour' a promise? Since I
> don't seem to hear them any more, I'm surprised to find they're still
> alive (though 'honour''s looking a bit peelie-wally, as one might expect
> in the realm of politics):

They are still around, but if you think of 'deliver on a promise' as
just another multi-word phrase used in place of a single word, you and I
would, at this point in time, be on the same page at the end of the day.

> <https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=deliver+on+a+promise%2Ckeep+a+promise%2Cfulfil+a+promise%2Chonour+a+promise%2Cfulfill+a+promise%2Chonor+a+promise&year_start=1800&year_end=2019&corpus=en-GB-2019&smoothing=3>
>
> <https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=deliver+on+a+promise%2Ckeep+a+promise%2Cfulfil+a+promise%2Chonour+a+promise%2Cfulfill+a+promise%2Chonor+a+promise&year_start=1800&year_end=2019&corpus=en-US-2019&smoothing=3

--
When you earnestly believe you can compensate for a lack of skill
by doubling your efforts, there's no end to what you can't do.

[Hibou]

Le 15/03/2023 à 13:08, Peter T. Daniels a écrit :
> On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 5:11:37 AM UTC-4, Hibou wrote:
>>
>> I find 'to deliver on a promise' (common in politics, fairly recent, and
>> apparently of American origin) conjures an image of a tipper lorry
>
> I suspect that's a "dump truck."

As ever, GETA (Google est ton ami).

>> dropping a load of coal. I expect that's just me, since people would not
>> use the expression if they had this picture in their minds - or would they?
>
> Coal hasn't been used in furnaces in residential buildings in decades,
> and truckloads might be inadequate for the power plants that still use
> it, so it's unlikely that image would arise.

Depends on where in the world one is (I watched a German documentary
recently about alternatives to gas, and it would seem coal is popular
over there for residential heating). But let's say the image is of a
tipper lorry dropping a load of MacGuffins on to a promissory note.

>> Whatever happened to 'keep', 'fulfil', or 'honour' a promise? Since I
>> don't seem to hear them any more, I'm surprised to find they're still
>> alive (though 'honour''s looking a bit peelie-wally, as one might expect
>> in the realm of politics):
>
> I don't know about Over There, but a slogan heard in the last presidential
> campaign was "Promises made, promises kept."

Well, one swallow doesn't make a summer.

> Maybe "deliver" is a Brit cliché, whatever its origin.
>
>> <https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=deliver+on+a+promise%2Ckeep+a+promise%2Cfulfil+a+promise%2Chonour+a+promise%2Cfulfill+a+promise%2Chonor+a+promise&year_start=1800&year_end=2019&corpus=en-GB-2019&smoothing=3>
>>
>> <https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=deliver+on+a+promise%2Ckeep+a+promise%2Cfulfil+a+promise%2Chonour+a+promise%2Cfulfill+a+promise%2Chonor+a+promise&year_start=1800&year_end=2019&corpus=en-US-2019&smoothing=3>

If you look at these Ngrams, you'll find that it is twice as common in
American (books) as in British ones.

The early examples (pre-1950) found by Google Books are all American.

In general, you may take it that before I say something in a forum, I've
taken it for a test drive.

[occam]

On 15/03/2023 10:11, Hibou wrote:
> I find 'to deliver on a promise' (common in politics, fairly recent, and
> apparently of American origin) conjures an image of a tipper lorry
> dropping a load of coal. I expect that's just me, since people would not
> use the expression if they had this picture in their minds - or would they?
>
> Whatever happened to 'keep', 'fulfil', or 'honour' a promise? Since I
> don't seem to hear them any more, I'm surprised to find they're still
> alive

They are all alive and well, as your Ngram shows.

The reason why politicians (and businessmen) may prefer 'to deliver..."
is probably because it suggest a proactive deed, rather that the more
passive 'keep', 'honour', 'abide by' etc.

I may keep a promise by doing nothing (e.g. keeping my mouth shut),
however 'delivering' implies getting off my arse and doing something
positive (e.g. lowering taxes, building more houses, etc.).

[Hibou]

Le 16/03/2023 à 09:34, occam a écrit :
>
> The reason why politicians (and businessmen) may prefer 'to deliver..."
> is probably because it suggest a proactive deed, rather that the more
> passive 'keep', 'honour', 'abide by' etc.
>
> I may keep a promise by doing nothing (e.g. keeping my mouth shut),
> however 'delivering' implies getting off my arse and doing something
> positive (e.g. lowering taxes, building more houses, etc.).

Yes, that could be it.

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Thursday, March 16, 2023 at 4:58:50 AM UTC-4, Hibou wrote:
> Le 15/03/2023 à 13:08, Peter T. Daniels a écrit :
> > On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 5:11:37 AM UTC-4, Hibou wrote:

> >> I find 'to deliver on a promise' (common in politics, fairly recent, and
> >> apparently of American origin) conjures an image of a tipper lorry
> >
> > I suspect that's a "dump truck."
>
> As ever, GETA (Google est ton ami).

? To do what? Interpret a weird Briticism?

Does the verb "suspect" not alert you to a pleasantry?

> >> dropping a load of coal. I expect that's just me, since people would not
> >> use the expression if they had this picture in their minds - or would they?
> > Coal hasn't been used in furnaces in residential buildings in decades,
> > and truckloads might be inadequate for the power plants that still use
> > it, so it's unlikely that image would arise.
>
> Depends on where in the world one is (I watched a German documentary
> recently about alternatives to gas, and it would seem coal is popular
> over there for residential heating). But let's say the image is of a
> tipper lorry dropping a load of MacGuffins on to a promissory note.

Maguffins are not physical objects.

> >> Whatever happened to 'keep', 'fulfil', or 'honour' a promise? Since I
> >> don't seem to hear them any more, I'm surprised to find they're still
> >> alive (though 'honour''s looking a bit peelie-wally, as one might expect
> >> in the realm of politics):
> > I don't know about Over There, but a slogan heard in the last presidential
> > campaign was "Promises made, promises kept."
>
> Well, one swallow doesn't make a summer.

(Recte, "does not a summer make")

> > Maybe "deliver" is a Brit cliché, whatever its origin.
> >> <https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=deliver+on+a+promise%2Ckeep+a+promise%2Cfulfil+a+promise%2Chonour+a+promise%2Cfulfill+a+promise%2Chonor+a+promise&year_start=1800&year_end=2019&corpus=en-GB-2019&smoothing=3>
> >>
> >> <https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=deliver+on+a+promise%2Ckeep+a+promise%2Cfulfil+a+promise%2Chonour+a+promise%2Cfulfill+a+promise%2Chonor+a+promise&year_start=1800&year_end=2019&corpus=en-US-2019&smoothing=3>
> If you look at these Ngrams, you'll find that it is twice as common in
> American (books) as in British ones.
>
> The early examples (pre-1950) found by Google Books are all American.
>
> In general, you may take it that before I say something in a forum, I've
> taken it for a test drive.

As I said, its _origin_ does not determine its _use_.

AmE preserves a number of older usages that have been lost from BrE.

[TonyCooper]

On Thu, 16 Mar 2023 09:04:09 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
<gram...@verizon.net> wrote:

>On Thursday, March 16, 2023 at 4:58:50?AM UTC-4, Hibou wrote:
>> Le 15/03/2023 ą 13:08, Peter T. Daniels a écrit :

>> > On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 5:11:37?AM UTC-4, Hibou wrote:
>
>> >> I find 'to deliver on a promise' (common in politics, fairly recent, and
>> >> apparently of American origin) conjures an image of a tipper lorry
>> >
>> > I suspect that's a "dump truck."
>>
>> As ever, GETA (Google est ton ami).
>
>? To do what? Interpret a weird Briticism?

One wonders if "dump truck" is not a "weird Americanism" for a lorry
that can tip the contents out.



--

Tony Cooper - Orlando,Florida

[Kerr-Mudd, John]

On Thu, 16 Mar 2023 12:28:55 -0400
TonyCooper <tonyco...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, 16 Mar 2023 09:04:09 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> >On Thursday, March 16, 2023 at 4:58:50?AM UTC-4, Hibou wrote:

> >> Le 15/03/2023 à 13:08, Peter T. Daniels a écrit :
> >> > On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 5:11:37?AM UTC-4, Hibou wrote:
> >
> >> >> I find 'to deliver on a promise' (common in politics, fairly recent, and
> >> >> apparently of American origin) conjures an image of a tipper lorry
> >> >
> >> > I suspect that's a "dump truck."
> >>
> >> As ever, GETA (Google est ton ami).
> >
> >? To do what? Interpret a weird Briticism?
>
> One wonders if "dump truck" is not a "weird Americanism" for a lorry
> that can tip the contents out.
>

Data point: I (here in the UK) have always called them 'dumper trucks'.


--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

[Peter T. Daniels]

Why did you fail to quote the next sentence for your stooges?

[Sam Plusnet]

From a similar corner of the UK, I observe a distinction between:

A Dumper truck - one of those large, bright yellow things, used in
open-cast quarries and earth-moving groundwork. Their load-bed is shaped
somewhat like a builder's skip[1].

And a Tipper lorry - much like a conventional lorry with a flat=bed,
sides and a tailgate, but the front of the flat-bed is lifted up, just
behind the cabin, by a large hydraulic ram - so that the content slides
out of the (open) tailgate.

[1] The lorries that carry builder's skips around are another thing
altogether.

--
Sam Plusnet

[TonyCooper]

On Fri, 17 Mar 2023 00:34:18 +0000, Sam Plusnet <n...@home.com> wrote:

>On 16-Mar-23 20:22, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
>> On Thu, 16 Mar 2023 12:28:55 -0400
>> TonyCooper <tonyco...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 16 Mar 2023 09:04:09 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
>>> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Thursday, March 16, 2023 at 4:58:50?AM UTC-4, Hibou wrote:

>>>>> Le 15/03/2023 ą 13:08, Peter T. Daniels a écrit :
>>>>>> On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 5:11:37?AM UTC-4, Hibou wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>> I find 'to deliver on a promise' (common in politics, fairly recent, and
>>>>>>> apparently of American origin) conjures an image of a tipper lorry
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I suspect that's a "dump truck."
>>>>>
>>>>> As ever, GETA (Google est ton ami).
>>>>
>>>> ? To do what? Interpret a weird Briticism?
>>>
>>> One wonders if "dump truck" is not a "weird Americanism" for a lorry
>>> that can tip the contents out.
>>>
>> Data point: I (here in the UK) have always called them 'dumper trucks'.
>
> From a similar corner of the UK, I observe a distinction between:
>
>A Dumper truck - one of those large, bright yellow things, used in
>open-cast quarries and earth-moving groundwork. Their load-bed is shaped
>somewhat like a builder's skip[1].
>
>And a Tipper lorry - much like a conventional lorry with a flat=bed,
>sides and a tailgate, but the front of the flat-bed is lifted up, just
>behind the cabin, by a large hydraulic ram - so that the content slides
>out of the (open) tailgate.
>
>[1] The lorries that carry builder's skips around are another thing
>altogether.

Sam! You are using yet another weird British term in - what I can
only assume to be a deliberately provocative manner. A "skip", in the
US, is a hitch in one's stride that follows a hop and precedes a jump.
Or, it can be a person who has disappeared in order to avoid debt or
arrest.

That container that builders, and others, use is properly called a
"dumpster". The product was originally called a Dempster-Dumpster by
its originator - the Dempster Brothers, Inc - in 1935. The 88 years
that have past since the introduction of the product has certainly
been a sufficient amount of time for you to take up the less-weird
name.

"Dumpster" is a word that lends itself much better to describing
political fuck-ups. Who would want to use "skip fire" when "dumpster
fire" is available?

[Peter Moylan]

One garbage-handling company here had a slogan on the side of its
trucks: To the dump, to the dump, to the dump dump dump.

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

[Sam Plusnet]

On 17-Mar-23 1:26, TonyCooper wrote:

> That container that builders, and others, use is properly called a
> "dumpster".

In AmE you are no doubt correct. However that word isn't part of BrE,
and the object is not called that (even incorrectly) in the UK.

We have to find other places to build a fire.

--
Sam Plusnet

[TonyCooper]

When people in the UK look for discarded treasures in other people's
trash, do they go "skip-diving"? Or "skip scrounging" for
alliteration?

[Kerr-Mudd, John]

I like what you did there by skipping mention of the Skip Lorry.

How about: Will the panel please discuss "what is a van?"

Flower delivery moped type van up to house removal van, but not including a
covered utility truck, or possibly a station wagon (really? you can get
that much in it?)

[Janet]

In article <9ot71it6b2pqke83t...@4ax.com>,
tonyco...@gmail.com says...

Skip diving. A treasure trove.

When she was 70+, skip-diving mother in law fell into
the skip and broke her ribs.

Janet

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

You may be in the van of a new movement.

>
> Flower delivery moped type van up to house removal van, but not including a
> covered utility truck, or possibly a station wagon (really? you can get
> that much in it?)


--

Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 36 years; mainly
in England until 1987.

[lar3ryca]

On 2023-03-17 08:21, Janet wrote:
> In article <9ot71it6b2pqke83t...@4ax.com>,
> tonyco...@gmail.com says...
>>
>> On Fri, 17 Mar 2023 02:48:43 +0000, Sam Plusnet <n...@home.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 17-Mar-23 1:26, TonyCooper wrote:
>>>
>>>> That container that builders, and others, use is properly called a
>>>> "dumpster".
>>>
>>> In AmE you are no doubt correct. However that word isn't part of BrE,
>>> and the object is not called that (even incorrectly) in the UK.
>>>
>>> We have to find other places to build a fire.
>>
>> When people in the UK look for discarded treasures in other people's
>> trash, do they go "skip-diving"? Or "skip scrounging" for
>> alliteration?
>
> Skip diving. A treasure trove.

Sounds like a Summer Olympics sport.

> When she was 70+, skip-diving mother in law fell into
> the skip and broke her ribs.
>
> Janet

--
Light travels faster than sound. That's why some people
appear bright until you hear them speak.

[Sam Plusnet]

On 17-Mar-23 10:14, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
> How about: Will the panel please discuss "what is a van?"

There are a few specially configured vans, tailored to specific
purposes, and then there's the general purpose van ordinaire.

--
Sam Plusnet

[Peter Moylan]

<like>

[Jerry Friedman]

So that's not the one that has a guard?

--
Jerry Friedman

[Sam Plusnet]

Did I cause an affront?

--
Sam Plusnet

[TonyCooper]

On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 03:12:51 +0000, Sam Plusnet <n...@home.com> wrote:

>On 18-Mar-23 1:30, Jerry Friedman wrote:

>> On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 1:25:42?PM UTC-6, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>>> On 17-Mar-23 10:14, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
>>>> How about: Will the panel please discuss "what is a van?"
>>> There are a few specially configured vans, tailored to specific
>>> purposes, and then there's the general purpose van ordinaire.
>>
>> So that's not the one that has a guard?
>
>Did I cause an affront?

Yes, you are now in arrears.

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

Yes, but someone will back him up.

[TonyCooper]

On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 15:12:06 +0100, Athel Cornish-Bowden
<athe...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 2023-03-18 12:59:57 +0000, TonyCooper said:
>
>> On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 03:12:51 +0000, Sam Plusnet <n...@home.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 18-Mar-23 1:30, Jerry Friedman wrote:
>>>> On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 1:25:42?PM UTC-6, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>>>>> On 17-Mar-23 10:14, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
>>>>>> How about: Will the panel please discuss "what is a van?"
>>>>> There are a few specially configured vans, tailored to specific
>>>>> purposes, and then there's the general purpose van ordinaire.
>>>>
>>>> So that's not the one that has a guard?
>>>
>>> Did I cause an affront?
>>
>> Yes, you are now in arrears.
>
>Yes, but someone will back him up.

And then forward him to another address?

[Sam Plusnet]

On 18-Mar-23 14:12, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> On 2023-03-18 12:59:57 +0000, TonyCooper said:
>
>> On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 03:12:51 +0000, Sam Plusnet <n...@home.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 18-Mar-23 1:30, Jerry Friedman wrote:
>>>> On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 1:25:42?PM UTC-6, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>>>>> On 17-Mar-23 10:14, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
>>>>>> How about: Will the panel please discuss "what is a van?"
>>>>> There are a few specially configured vans, tailored to specific
>>>>> purposes, and then there's the general purpose van ordinaire.
>>>>
>>>> So that's not the one that has a guard?
>>>
>>> Did I cause an affront?
>>
>> Yes, you are now in arrears.
>
> Yes, but someone will back him up.

I do hope not. I can't stand that terrible beeping noise.

(I was going to make a joke about not needing a banksman, but that
doesn't travel well (dogman for Au & NZ, spotter for the US, dunno for
Canada & etc.)

--
Sam Plusnet

[Snidely]

Lo, on the 3/17/2023, Peter Moylan did proclaim ...

> On 18/03/23 06:25, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>> On 17-Mar-23 10:14, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
>>> How about: Will the panel please discuss "what is a van?"
>>
>>
>> There are a few specially configured vans, tailored to specific
>> purposes, and then there's the general purpose van ordinaire.
>
> <like>

I'm still coughing.

/dps

--
Killing a mouse was hardly a Nobel Prize-worthy exercise, and Lawrence
went apopleptic when he learned a lousy rodent had peed away all his
precious heavy water.
_The Disappearing Spoon_, Sam Kean

[occam]

Ross'init?

[Peter Moylan]

Most people seeing that slogan wouldn't be highbrow enough to recognise
that. But everyone knows the Lone Ranger Overture.

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Saturday, March 25, 2023 at 6:33:33 AM UTC-4, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 25/03/23 21:01, occam wrote:
> > On 17/03/2023 02:54, Peter Moylan wrote:

> >> One garbage-handling company here had a slogan on the side of its
> >> trucks: To the dump, to the dump, to the dump dump dump.
> > Ross'init?
>
> Most people seeing that slogan wouldn't be highbrow enough to recognise
> that. But everyone knows the Lone Ranger Overture.

FSVO "everyone" ... that was a very long time ago.

On *Jeopardy!*, I'm constantly struck by how little the contestants
in general know about even the 1980s. The other day, not one of
them recognized the date, or maybe it was the year, of JFK's
assassination (11/22/63).

[occam]

On 25/03/2023 11:33, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 25/03/23 21:01, occam wrote:
>> On 17/03/2023 02:54, Peter Moylan wrote:
>
>>> One garbage-handling company here had a slogan on the side of its
>>> trucks: To the dump, to the dump, to the dump dump dump.
>>
>> Ross'init?
>
> Most people seeing that slogan wouldn't be highbrow enough to recognise
> that. But everyone knows the Lone Ranger Overture.
>

Well, in the highbrow spectrum - somewhere between the Lone Ranger (1)
and the composer Rossini (10) - there was another UK TV series called
The Adventures of William Tell. That overture always conjures up
William Tell rather than the Lone Ranger for me.

[Sam Plusnet]

Yerbut.
Lone Ranger (TV series) 1949 to 1957
William Tell (TV series) 1958 to 1959

There's a lot of people out there today who wouldn't have come across
either programme. Even repeats have their limits.

--
Sam Plusnet

[Peter Moylan]

Sometimes I feel that there's a lot about the period 1950-1980, roughly,
that doesn't make it onto the WWW. It's too recent for historians, and
too far in the remote past for the sort of people who create web sites.

Luckily, books still exist.

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

I would be one of those.

> Even repeats have their limits.


--

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

I find that very frustrating when trying to check information at
Wikipedia. For example, suppose I know that Dr X was a distinguished
professor at the University of Y in the 1970s,and I want to find out
more. So I go to the website of the University of Y. There I can find
out who founded the university in 1834,and who is on its faculty today,
and the research that its youngsters are doing that will get the Nobel
Prize in 2045. But can I find out anything about people who were
prominent in 1976? No. I can't even find their names.

>
> Luckily, books still exist.


--

[Peter Moylan]

At my university we had a fairly informative web site as long as it was
run by our department, but then a directive came from above that all
department web sites would be replaced by a single university web site.
Fair enough, except that the people they put in charge of implementing
it seemed to be specialists in information hiding. It ended up being
visually attractive, but almost useless.

We had an almighty fight over making student materials (lecture notes,
etc.) available for download, something we had been doing for several
years. The deputy vice-chancellor for advertising, or whatever her title
was, had been recruited from Ballarat University. Now, Ballarat was not
originally a university, but a technical college or teacher's college or
something like that, that had been renamed a university during the great
national renaming that gave Australia a huge number of new universities.
I presume that by now they've managed to hire qualified staff, but back
then it didn't have a good reputation.

Her point of view was that things like lecture notes and lab
instructions were copyright material that was owned by the university,
not by the author, and should not be visible for other universities to
copy. The argument went something like this.

"Look, they make lecture notes available at lots of universities. They
do it at Stanford. They do it at MIT. They do it at Berkeley. They do it
at Cambridge."

"But not at Ballarat!"

We thought that was supposed to be a joke, but she was serious.

[bil...@shaw.ca]

Forgiveable, just past middle March.

bill (van)

[Sergio Gatti]

Peter Moylan hat am 25.03.2023 um 23:59 geschrieben:

> On 26/03/23 00:05, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>> On *Jeopardy!*, I'm constantly struck by how little the contestants
>> in general know about even the 1980s. The other day, not one of them
>> recognized the date, or maybe it was the year, of JFK's assassination
>> (11/22/63).

Perhaps younger people hear about it at school *in the US*. Not
elsewhere, though.

I have a similar problem about some German trivia, like very popular
songs and TV programs before I moved here in the 1980s.

> Sometimes I feel that there's a lot about the period 1950-1980, roughly,
> that doesn't make it onto the WWW. It's too recent for historians, and
> too far in the remote past for the sort of people who create web sites.

Don't forget copyright issues.

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

On 2023-03-26 07:04:36 +0000, Peter Moylan said:

> On 26/03/23 17:37, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>> On 2023-03-25 22:59:43 +0000, Peter Moylan said:
>
>>> Sometimes I feel that there's a lot about the period 1950-1980,
>>> roughly, that doesn't make it onto the WWW. It's too recent for
>>> historians, and too far in the remote past for the sort of people
>>> who create web sites.
>>
>> I find that very frustrating when trying to check information at
>> Wikipedia. For example, suppose I know that Dr X was a distinguished
>> professor at the University of Y in the 1970s,and I want to find out
>> more. So I go to the website of the University of Y. There I can
>> find out who founded the university in 1834,and who is on its faculty
>> today, and the research that its youngsters are doing that will get
>> the Nobel Prize in 2045. But can I find out anything about people who
>> were prominent in 1976? No. I can't even find their names.
>
> At my university we had a fairly informative web site as long as it was
> run by our department, but then a directive came from above that all
> department web sites would be replaced by a single university web site.
> Fair enough, except that the people they put in charge of implementing
> it seemed to be specialists in information hiding. It ended up being
> visually attractive, but almost useless.

"visually attractive, but almost useless" describes almost all web
sites run by administrators, though not all are visually attractive.

>
> We had an almighty fight over making student materials (lecture notes,
> etc.) available for download, something we had been doing for several
> years. The deputy vice-chancellor for advertising, or whatever her title
> was, had been recruited from Ballarat University. Now, Ballarat was not
> originally a university, but a technical college or teacher's college or
> something like that, that had been renamed a university during the great
> national renaming that gave Australia a huge number of new universities.
> I presume that by now they've managed to hire qualified staff, but back
> then it didn't have a good reputation.
>
> Her point of view was that things like lecture notes and lab
> instructions were copyright material that was owned by the university,
> not by the author, and should not be visible for other universities to
> copy. The argument went something like this.
>
> "Look, they make lecture notes available at lots of universities. They
> do it at Stanford. They do it at MIT. They do it at Berkeley. They do it
> at Cambridge."
>
> "But not at Ballarat!"
>
> We thought that was supposed to be a joke, but she was serious.


--

[occam]

On 26/03/2023 11:20, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> On 2023-03-26 07:04:36 +0000, Peter Moylan said:
>
>> On 26/03/23 17:37, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>>> On 2023-03-25 22:59:43 +0000, Peter Moylan said:
>>
>>>> Sometimes I feel that there's a lot about the period 1950-1980,
>>>> roughly, that doesn't make it onto the WWW. It's too recent for
>>>> historians, and too far in the remote past for the sort of people
>>>> who create web sites.
>>>
>>> I find that very frustrating when trying to check information at
>>> Wikipedia. For example, suppose I know that Dr X was a distinguished
>>> professor at the University of Y in the 1970s,and I want to find out
>>> more. So I go to the website of the University of Y. There I can
>>> find out who founded the university in 1834,and who is on its faculty
>>> today, and the research that its youngsters are doing that will get
>>> the Nobel Prize in 2045. But can I find out anything about people who
>>> were prominent in 1976? No. I can't even find their names.
>>
>> At my university we had a fairly informative web site as long as it was
>> run by our department, but then a directive came from above that all
>> department web sites would be replaced by a single university web site.
>> Fair enough, except that the people they put in charge of implementing
>> it seemed to be specialists in information hiding. It ended up being
>> visually attractive, but almost useless.

In a past life, my working definition of 'information hiding' on a web
site was having an item on a page which could be not be reached with
three (or less) clicks. Not quite useless, but virtually undiscoverable
by those not committed enough.

>
> "visually attractive, but almost useless" describes almost all web sites
> run by administrators, though not all are visually attractive.

Not from the perspective of the administrators, presumably. We all have
our own perspective of information - what is important and what is not.
If an administrator cannot reach his own résumé page (with photo) within
two clicks, I am guessing that site is useless from one's perspective.

[lar3ryca]

It seems to work, though for our unrespected regular, putting
information on a website seems to do the job.

>> "visually attractive, but almost useless" describes almost all web sites
>> run by administrators, though not all are visually attractive.
>
> Not from the perspective of the administrators, presumably. We all have
> our own perspective of information - what is important and what is not.
> If an administrator cannot reach his own résumé page (with photo) within
> two clicks, I am guessing that site is useless from one's perspective.
>
>

--
roses are 0xFF0000
violets are 0x0000FF
all my base
are belong to you

[bil...@shaw.ca]

There are one or two channels on my cable TV menu that carry programming
from the 1950s through the '90s. If no one has managed to squirrel away the rights
for a rainy day, those programs cost nothing or next to nothing to put on the air
or cable, more likely) and you can always draw a small audience for whatever advertising
you can find.

MeTv is one channel that shows such programs in my region. It comes in one of those
packages of channels that the cable company sells as part of a bundle because nobody
would buy them as stand-alones. But if you have that bundle in your cable lineup and you're
laid up due to illness or you're out of work, or retired and bored, voila, there they are: The Rifleman,
Wanted Dead or Alive, Wagon Train, Paladin and yes, The Lone Ranger.

bill

[bruce bowser]

On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 5:11:37 AM UTC-4, Hibou wrote:
> I find 'to deliver on a promise' (common in politics, fairly recent, and
> apparently of American origin) conjures an image of a tipper lorry

> dropping a load of coal. I expect that's just me, since people would not
> use the expression if they had this picture in their minds - or would they?
>
> Whatever happened to 'keep', 'fulfil', or 'honour' a promise?
There is also "make good" and "deliver" on a promise. [Il y a aussi "rendre bon" et "livrer" sur une promesse.] (the French translation is sometimes preferred).

[TonyCooper]

On Sun, 26 Mar 2023 13:44:02 -0700 (PDT), "bil...@shaw.ca"
<bil...@shaw.ca> wrote:

The William Tell Overture Finale has been included in many
cartoons...here in a Looney Tunes cartoon:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTWBkvSzl-g

While TV shows become dated, cartoons never die. They are just as
appealing to a rug rat today as they were to a rug rat when they first
came out.

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Sunday, March 26, 2023 at 4:44:05 PM UTC-4, bil...@shaw.ca wrote:

> There are one or two channels on my cable TV menu that carry programming
> from the 1950s through the '90s. If no one has managed to squirrel away the rights
> for a rainy day, those programs cost nothing or next to nothing to put on the air
> or cable, more likely) and you can always draw a small audience for whatever advertising
> you can find.
>
> MeTv is one channel that shows such programs in my region. It comes in one of those
> packages of channels that the cable company sells as part of a bundle because nobody
> would buy them as stand-alones. But if you have that bundle in your cable lineup and you're
> laid up due to illness or you're out of work, or retired and bored, voila, there they are: The Rifleman,
> Wanted Dead or Alive, Wagon Train, Paladin and yes, The Lone Ranger.

MeTV is broadcast channel 31.1 out of Middletown (or is it Morristown), NJ.
I'm watching M*A*S*H on it right now MeTY+ is ch. 38.8, which gives me
*Hawaiian Eye* each weekday at 10 pm. It will be interesting to see how
it changed with statehood in '61. *Hawaii Five-O* meant nothing more than
50th State.)

[Sam Plusnet]

There's a free-to-air channel here (UK) which does something similar.
There is a good reason why the adverts concentrate on stair-lifts and
walk-in baths etc.

i.e. Those people who are too young to have seen either of those
programmes are also too young to watch TV channels which offer this
material.

--
Sam Plusnet

[TonyCooper]

On Mon, 27 Mar 2023 00:59:03 +0100, Sam Plusnet <n...@home.com> wrote:

>On 26-Mar-23 21:44, bil...@shaw.ca wrote:

The barber shop that I go to has the television set to some channel
that shows old sit-coms. The last time I had a haircut "I Dream of
Jeannie" (1965-1970) was showin.

The barber (owner) told me he keeps the TV permanently set to that
channel because patrons don't mind seeing only part of a episode and
don't care if they get there at the beginning of an episode.

If he tuned to more interesting shows, customers would want to watch
entire episodes. The old shows also spark questions from his
customers, and even arguments. What's the name of that actress who's
playing...? and "No, that was...!".

Chris, the barber/owner, could clear the board if the catagory was
"Who played (character) in (show)?"

[Mark Brader]

William Boei:

> There are one or two channels on my cable TV menu that carry programming

> from the 1950s through the '90s...

> MeTv is one channel that shows such programs in my region. It comes
> in one of those packages of channels that the cable company sells

> as part of a bundle because nobody would buy them as stand-alones...

Huh. You will remember that once upon a time before channels were
sold standalone, cable companies already offered them in bundles.
At one time in this period when I had Rogers cable in Toronto,
MeTV was the name of my chosen service bundle.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto "(A topological cat is essential here.)"
m...@vex.net --Ian Stewart

My text in this article is in the public domain.

[lar3ryca]

I've been laid up for about 8 weeks now, and my go-to oldies are /The
Closer/, /Due South/, /Hudson and Rex/, /Cheers/, and /Taxi/.

Thanks for the reminders of other shows.

--
In India, “cold weather” is merely a phrase to distinguish between weather
which will melt a brass doorknob and weather which only makes it mushy.
–Mark Twain

[Mack A. Damia]

On Mon, 27 Mar 2023 09:28:02 -0600, lar3ryca <la...@invalid.ca> wrote:

>On 2023-03-26 14:44, bil...@shaw.ca wrote:

Seinfeld for me. Funny show!

I enjoy the old Perry Mason Show with Ramond Burr. HBO has a new
series about Mason when he was a young attorney just starting out.
Some good acting and scenes, but it is too long. On the eleventh
episode now.

[Mack A. Damia]

(Della Street is a lesbian; Paul Drake is black)

[lar3ryca]

Did you ever live in New York?
I get the feeling that Jerry Seinfeld might be appreciated by New Yorkers.

Personally I Find his stand-up comedy and the TV show decidedly unfunny.
Another one I can't stand is Will Ferrell.

> I enjoy the old Perry Mason Show with Ramond Burr. HBO has a new
> series about Mason when he was a young attorney just starting out.
> Some good acting and scenes, but it is too long. On the eleventh
> episode now.

I haven't watched the new one, but I used to like the old show.
My mother went to school with Raymond Burr, in New Westminster, BC.

--
You're 100 percent correct -- it's been scientifically proven that
microwaving changes the molecular structure of food.
THIS IS CALLED COOKING, YOU FOOL!

[TonyCooper]

I would not attribute the show's popularity to the audience's exposure
to NYC. It ranks very high on my list of favorite sitcoms, and I've
never lived in NYC. I've never lived in Torquay, either, and that
show ranks equally high on my list.

>
>> I enjoy the old Perry Mason Show with Ramond Burr. HBO has a new
>> series about Mason when he was a young attorney just starting out.
>> Some good acting and scenes, but it is too long. On the eleventh
>> episode now.
>
>I haven't watched the new one, but I used to like the old show.
>My mother went to school with Raymond Burr, in New Westminster, BC.
--

Tony Cooper - Orlando,Florida

[Mack A. Damia]

Kensington in Brooklyn near Prospect Park during the 1980s. I taught
at a business school in Manhattan near Port Authority and Times
Square.

[lar3ryca]

Interesting. To me, those are at the extreme opposites on the humour
spectrum.

>>> I enjoy the old Perry Mason Show with Ramond Burr. HBO has a new
>>> series about Mason when he was a young attorney just starting out.
>>> Some good acting and scenes, but it is too long. On the eleventh
>>> episode now.
>>
>> I haven't watched the new one, but I used to like the old show.
>> My mother went to school with Raymond Burr, in New Westminster, BC.

--

Synonym: a word you can use instead of a word you can't spell.

[TonyCooper]

Not really. In both, the absurd is the source of humor. The things
that the Seinfeld plots were based on were the absurd reactions of the
characters to non-events (the famous "a show about nothing"). The
Fawlty plots were also the absurd reactions of the character to
non-events.

A Seinfeld plot line was about being refused when ordering soup
because of an absurd reaction of the soup provider because a customer
wanted bread with his soup. A Fawtly Towers plot line was about the
Basil's absurd reaction when a customer ordered Waldorf salad and the
absurd demands of the customer.

Both shows presented ordinary events with exaggerated and absurd
reactions.

>
>>>> I enjoy the old Perry Mason Show with Ramond Burr. HBO has a new
>>>> series about Mason when he was a young attorney just starting out.
>>>> Some good acting and scenes, but it is too long. On the eleventh
>>>> episode now.
>>>
>>> I haven't watched the new one, but I used to like the old show.
>>> My mother went to school with Raymond Burr, in New Westminster, BC.
--

Tony Cooper - Orlando,Florida

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

I have. No, that's a lie, I lived several years in Newton Abbot
(1944-1947; 1951-1954; many visits afterwards), which is about 11 km
from Torquay. Close enough to be more or less the same place by North
American standards.

>> either, and that
>> show ranks equally high on my list.

I assume you're referring to Fawlty Towers, which I've only rarely
seen, but I've enjoyed it when I have.

>
> Interesting. To me, those are at the extreme opposites on the humour spectrum.
>
>>>> I enjoy the old Perry Mason Show with Ramond Burr.

The first programme I ever watched after we acquired a television in
about 1958. It was a must-see for several years.

>>>> HBO has a new
>>>> series about Mason when he was a young attorney just starting out.
>>>> Some good acting and scenes, but it is too long. On the eleventh
>>>> episode now.
>>>
>>> I haven't watched the new one, but I used to like the old show.
>>> My mother went to school with Raymond Burr, in New Westminster, BC.

Am I right in thinking that New Westminster is pronounced as if it were
written New West Minster (the "minster" bit is unstressed in British
English)? I remember being surprised at that when I went to Vancouver.

[Sam Plusnet]

Worrying.
I though everyone who ever knew Perry Mason died a violent death.

--
Sam Plusnet

[lar3ryca]

Yes, that's how it's pronounced, assuming that it's those two words
joined together, and not pronounced as if they were two separate words.

--
Some people say, contractions in the English language are difficult.
Indeed, they're.

[bil...@shaw.ca]

It's the oldest municipality (of 21) in Greater Vancouver and locals usually
refer to it as New West

New West has a public market that sits on the south bank of the
Fraser River; the market is an excellent place to stop for a cup of coffee
and a snack, and a very impressive sight when it is in freshet, the peak of
the spring flood period.

I am overdue for a visit, but when I used to drop by the market regularly,
there was a fresh fish shop inside that served excellent fresh fish and chips.

bill

[Mack A. Damia]

Della had a nude scene last night. Nice touch of T & A.

[Janet]

In article <tvv0dn$3psod$1...@dont-email.me>,
la...@invalid.ca says...

> Synonym: a word you can use instead of a word you can't spell.

Sinonym ; when you couldn't spell the synonym either.

Janet.

[Kerr-Mudd, John]

That's all chin^w greek to me.

There's only one type of grain that is spelt right.


--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

[Mack A. Damia]

On Sat, 25 Mar 2023 15:19:05 +0100, occam <oc...@nowhere.nix> wrote:

>On 25/03/2023 11:33, Peter Moylan wrote:
>> On 25/03/23 21:01, occam wrote:
>>> On 17/03/2023 02:54, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>
>>>> One garbage-handling company here had a slogan on the side of its
>>>> trucks: To the dump, to the dump, to the dump dump dump.
>>>
>>> Ross'init?
>>
>> Most people seeing that slogan wouldn't be highbrow enough to recognise
>> that. But everyone knows the Lone Ranger Overture.
>>
>
>Well, in the highbrow spectrum - somewhere between the Lone Ranger (1)
>and the composer Rossini (10) - there was another UK TV series called
>The Adventures of William Tell. That overture always conjures up
>William Tell rather than the Lone Ranger for me.

I asked a question in here some time ago about the name of a classical
music piece played in an episode of The Lone Ranger.

Can't remember how we found it, but it turned out to be Joseph
Hellmesberger Sr., "Gewitterszene". Slightly faster beat in the TV
show.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JD5Kklx86Y8

[Snidely]

Kerr-Mudd, John suggested that ...

Okay, you've had a rough day. You should go off and forage for some
supper, and let the internet fiber cool off.

/dps "all the way from east to west"

--
"I'm glad unicorns don't ever need upgrades."
"We are as up as it is possible to get graded!"
_Phoebe and Her Unicorn_, 2016.05.15

[bil...@shaw.ca]

On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 2:11:37 AM UTC-7, Hibou wrote:
> I find 'to deliver on a promise' (common in politics, fairly recent, and
> apparently of American origin) conjures an image of a tipper lorry
> dropping a load of coal. I expect that's just me, since people would not
> use the expression if they had this picture in their minds - or would they?
>

> Whatever happened to 'keep', 'fulfil', or 'honour' a promise? Since I
> don't seem to hear them any more, I'm surprised to find they're still
> alive (though 'honour''s looking a bit peelie-wally, as one might expect
> in the realm of politics):
>
"Keep a promise" is very common here. And after that, "break a promise". And all the
other possibilities.

By the way, we don't have tipper lorries here. We have dump trucks.

bill, and what the hell is peelie-wally?