'pay homage' vs. 'pay tribute'

[AL_n]

The other day, I was pointing out to a friend, that someone had not had the
decency to acknowledge help received from benefactors.

I wrote: "He did not pay tribute to them".

Afterwards, I wondered if I should have written "pay homage" rather than
"pay tribute". Which is better in this instance? Or are the two terms
completely interchangeable?

Thank you,

Al

[Stan Brown]

"Homage" is better. "Tribute" does not necessarily mean good with
monetary value, but it usually does mean that: conquered peoples paid
tribute to the Roman Empire. "Homage" means specifically "special
honor or respect" (AHD4), and therefore being more specific vis the
better choice.


--
"The difference between the /almost right/ word and the /right/ word
is ... the difference between the lightning-bug and the lightning."
--Mark Twain
Stan Brown, Tompkins County, NY, USA http://OakRoadSystems.com

[James Silverton]

On 2/12/2012 3:33 PM, Stan Brown wrote:
> On 12 Feb 2012 20:18:54 GMT, AL_n wrote:
>>
>> The other day, I was pointing out to a friend, that someone had not had the
>> decency to acknowledge help received from benefactors.
>>
>> I wrote: "He did not pay tribute to them".
>>
>> Afterwards, I wondered if I should have written "pay homage" rather than
>> "pay tribute". Which is better in this instance? Or are the two terms
>> completely interchangeable?
>
> "Homage" is better. "Tribute" does not necessarily mean good with
> monetary value, but it usually does mean that: conquered peoples paid
> tribute to the Roman Empire. "Homage" means specifically "special
> honor or respect" (AHD4), and therefore being more specific vis the
> better choice.
>
>

It seems that the word "homage" can be a bit unfamiliar to many and my
favorite radio station's announcers insist on pronouncing the word as
"omarge" even when the rest of the sentence is English not just in the
title "Homage à la Tombeau de Couperin". Webster's Encyclopedic gives
"homidj" or "omidj" and the OED essentially the same but, to my surprise
I admit, acknowledges also "omarge": "Brit. /ɒˈmɑːʒ/ , U.S. /oʊˈmɑʒ/"
even if it qualifies the pronunciation as mainly in
"3b spec. A work of art or entertainment which incorporates elements of
style or content characteristic of another work, artist, or genre, as a
means of paying affectionate tribute. Also: an instance of such tribute
within a work of art or entertainment."

Note the use of "tribute" in the definition.

--
Jim Silverton

Extraneous "not" in Reply To.

[Mark Brader]

"Al":

> The other day, I was pointing out to a friend, that someone had not had the
> decency to acknowledge help received from benefactors.
>
> I wrote: "He did not pay tribute to them".
>

> Afterwards, I wondered if I should have written "pay homage"...

I'd prefer "acknowledge" rather than either one.
--
Mark Brader "He'll spend at least part of his life
Toronto in prison, or parliament, or both."
m...@vex.net --Peter Moylan

[Duggy]

Basically interchangeable, but "pay tribute" has a sense of money/
goods and possibly forced honouring implied (but can be used without).

"Homage" without the "pay" can also be used to mean "respectfully
copied". It is sometimes pronounced different for that meaning but
written the same.

===
= DUG.
===

[Eric Walker]

No. "Homage" is not a general honoring: it is something created or done
publicly in honor, admiration, or celebration. The homage is typically
an artistic work, from an essay to a musical composition. And, though
the AHD5 says "of someone or something", I'd be surprised to see the word
used with respect to anything but honoring of a particular person.

"Tribute" is (in this sort of usage) a gift, payment, declaration, or
other acknowledgement of gratitude, respect, or admiration.

So there is similarity but not exact congruence.

(Also, without looking it up, my sense is that the verb with "homage" is
generally "render".)

--
Cordially,
Eric Walker

[Peter Brooks]

They're both, originally, about rendering money in acknowledgement of
your submission or vassalage to somebody else. The main difference is
that 'tribute' is Roman and 'homage' Feudal. They're both akin to what
dogs do when they cringe and lie on their backs to acknowledge that
they're beaten.

[semir...@my-deja.com]

It sounds very formal and even morbid if all the people involved are
still alive.

"He did not acknowledge their help/assistance" sounds better to me.

[Duggy]

On Feb 13, 8:23 am, m...@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:
> "Al":
>
> > The other day, I was pointing out to a friend, that someone had not had the
> > decency to acknowledge help received from benefactors.
>
> > I wrote: "He did not pay tribute to them".
>
> > Afterwards, I wondered if I should have written "pay homage"...
>
> I'd prefer "acknowledge" rather than either one.

Good point. Works better than either, less "worship" in it.

===
= DUG.
===

[Steve Hayes]

Strictly speaking, homage is intangible and tribute is tangible.

Homage is loyalty, and tribute is a form of taxation.

But both are frequently used of intangible things nowadays, with homage
usually being applied to the more distant past (he paid homage to his
predecessors), while tribute applies to the more recent past, such as someone
who has recently died.


--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

[Arcadian Rises]

Or, "he did not give proper credit where credit was due".

[Eric Walker]

On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 16:23:37 -0800, Peter Brooks wrote:

> They're both, originally, about rendering money in acknowledgement of
> your submission or vassalage to somebody else. The main difference is
> that 'tribute' is Roman and 'homage' Feudal. They're both akin to what
> dogs do when they cringe and lie on their backs to acknowledge that
> they're beaten.

True, but largely or wholly irrelevant to modern uses.


--
Cordially,
Eric Walker

[Don Phillipson]

On 12 Feb 2012 20:18:54 GMT, AL_n wrote:
>
> The other day, I was pointing out to a friend, that someone had not had
> the
> decency to acknowledge help received from benefactors.
>
> I wrote: "He did not pay tribute to them".
>
> Afterwards, I wondered if I should have written "pay homage" rather than
> "pay tribute". Which is better in this instance? Or are the two terms
> completely interchangeable?

Homage is a promise of obedience or loyalty. Tribute is an actual payment
in cash or kind. They mean quite different things: and neither is the same
as
either politeness or gratitude, which this context suggests.

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

[Jerry Friedman]

I agree with others that "acknowledge" would be better. Has anyone
suggested "thank"? That would be my first choice.

A look at Google Books suggests that the two phrases are about equally
common in this young century, but "pay homage" is almost always
literal (applied to gods and kings), whereas "pay tribute" is used now
and then in the sense you want.

However, it's usually in the first person--"I'd like to pay tribute
to" rather than "you didn't pay tribute to" or "he should paid tribute
to", etc. That's one of my reasons for preferring "acknowledge" and
"thank".

--
Jerry Friedman

[Jerry Friedman]

On Feb 12, 4:46 pm, Eric Walker <em...@owlcroft.com> wrote:
...

> (Also, without looking it up, my sense is that the verb with "homage" is
> generally "render".)

(Not particularly important, but at Google Ngram search "pay homage"
has been significantly more common since at least 1800.

http://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=pay+homage%2Crender+homage&year_start=1800&year_end=2008&corpus=0&smoothing=3

http://snipurl.com/226vob2
)

--
Jerry Friedman

[AL_n]

Jerry Friedman <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:53137709-6eb7-4316...@f30g2000yqh.googlegroups.com:

Thanks to all for the input. It is intriguing to read so many different
angles and insights on the homage/tribute question.

Al

[Ian Jackson]

In message <Xns9FF8C855...@130.133.4.11>, AL_n
<fgdf...@fghfghfg.com> writes

A "tribute band" could be said to "pay homage" to the original artists
(but not vice versa).
http://www.bootlegbeatles.com/
http://www.bootlegblondie.com/
--
Ian

[Mike Lyle]

On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 15:33:38 -0500, Stan Brown
<the_sta...@fastmail.fm> wrote:

>On 12 Feb 2012 20:18:54 GMT, AL_n wrote:
>>
>> The other day, I was pointing out to a friend, that someone had not had the
>> decency to acknowledge help received from benefactors.
>>
>> I wrote: "He did not pay tribute to them".
>>
>> Afterwards, I wondered if I should have written "pay homage" rather than
>> "pay tribute". Which is better in this instance? Or are the two terms
>> completely interchangeable?
>
>"Homage" is better. "Tribute" does not necessarily mean good with
>monetary value, but it usually does mean that: conquered peoples paid
>tribute to the Roman Empire. "Homage" means specifically "special
>honor or respect" (AHD4), and therefore being more specific vis the
>better choice.

The missing word is "thank". "He did not thank them." "Homage" is
completely out of place here, as it's the kind of special honour paid
only to kings and, by extension, to one's most influential masters in
a particular art. "Tribute" isn't quite right, either; it can include
expressions of gratitude, but includes other forms of recognition,
too. One might use it in a wordy formation, but they're usually a bad
idea.

--
Mike.

[AL_n]

Mike Lyle <mike_l...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in
news:07vij7hgsplpe051k...@4ax.com:

>>"Homage" is better. "Tribute" does not necessarily mean good with
>>monetary value, but it usually does mean that: conquered peoples paid
>>tribute to the Roman Empire. "Homage" means specifically "special
>>honor or respect" (AHD4), and therefore being more specific vis the
>>better choice.
>
> The missing word is "thank".

Actually, not so. The discussion was concerning someone's web site.
'Thanking' the said teachers would have been unusual. In the field of
pursuit in quastion, it is traditional to pay some sort of homage or
tribute to one's teachers, typically by mentioning them, and providing a
link to their websites, if any exist.

Al

[Mike Lyle]

In that case, if I understand the position correctly, the word seems
to me to be "acknowledge[ment]". "Homage" is overblown: as a rule (I
think we've said this already) it's not just the special respect I owe
you as an expert in the field, but that which is paid as of right to
royal personages. You'll also find it used in the specialist language
of the arts, with a special meaning, and usually pronounced as French.
And a "tribute" is what you'd be paying, but that doesn't mean you'd
use the word. An analogy would be "greeting": we say "Hello", and
that's a greeting, but we don't actually use the word "greeting" when
doing it.

Note that I'm saying all this because you asked!

--
Mike.

[Duggy]

On Feb 18, 5:08 am, "AL_n" <fgdfg...@fghfghfg.com> wrote:
> Mike Lyle <mike_lyle...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote innews:07vij7hgsplpe051k...@4ax.com:

Meanwhile, that is exactly what is called thanking in most places -
see movie credits and album covers.

===
= DUG.
===

[AL_n]

Mike Lyle <mike_l...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in

news:qvgtj7lfjpvg6h9a3...@4ax.com:

Thanks, but in this case, to merely acknowledge would have seemed
inappropriately half-hearted. In this sutuation, it would have been
appropriate to have lauded her teachers to some extent rather than merely
acknowledge them.

Al

[pierre.ext...@gmail.com]

Thank you, your answer is very well written and also has the same meaning in the French language.