Alexander McCall Smith
Barbara
library, and the librarian said this is dictated by the Library of
Congress designation, here in the U.S.
On browsing the internet I find that whenever he is referred to by last
name only, it is "McCall Smith." (I would have expected it to be
"Smith.") Can anyone tell me whether this is a common practice, or
whether it might simply be the author's preference?
Thank you.
Barbara Herrick
Buffalo, New York
Tony Cooper
McCall Smith seems to be his last name. One would expect the two
names to be hyphenated, but that is evidently not his preference.
He's referred to as McCall Smith in
http://www.chico.mweb.co.za/art/2003/2003dec/031205-detective.html
the Mail & Guardian website. They give his first name as Alexander,
but say he is known as Sandy.
--
Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL
Don Aitken
This "expectation" that multiple surnames will be hyphenated is a
fairly recent thing, a fact obscured by the nasty habit of many
genealogy websites which insert hypens which the bearers of the name
concerned never used. There is not necessarily anything in the
orthography of a name which tells you what is part of the surname and
what isn't.
--
Don Aitken
Mail to the From: address is not read.
To email me, substitute "clara.co.uk" for "freeuk.com"
John Kane
I know at least one family with the same usage. Then you get something
like Barklay de Tolly. That's the surname. The complete name is Mikhail
Bogdanovich Barclay de Tolly. A librarian was having a problem finding
something about him for me until I realised that I had not told her
that Barclay was not his first name.
Vinny Burgoo
Count yourself lucky. George MacDonald Fraser is sometimes found (or do
I mean not found?) on the M and the F shelves in the same bookshop.
--
V
"They are a handful of miserable resuscitators of a degenerate dead religion
who wish to return to the monstrous dark delusions of the past," said Father
Efstathios Kollas, the President of Greek Clergymen.
Mike M
> In alt.usage.english, Barbara wrote:
>
> >I was surprised to find his books alphabetized under "M" in the local
> >library, and the librarian said this is dictated by the Library of
> >Congress designation, here in the U.S.
> >
> >On browsing the internet I find that whenever he is referred to by last
> >name only, it is "McCall Smith." (I would have expected it to be
> >"Smith.") Can anyone tell me whether this is a common practice, or
> >whether it might simply be the author's preference?
>
> Count yourself lucky. George MacDonald Fraser is sometimes found (or do
> I mean not found?) on the M and the F shelves in the same bookshop.
>
Bookshop staff do struggle with this sort of thing. I've seen:
Daphne du Maurier sometimes under "D", sometimes "M"
John le Carre sometimes under "L", sometimes "C"
...and so on.
But the "Mc"s and "Mac"s are always under "M".
Record shops are no better. I've seen Vaughan Williams under "W".
Mike M
Barbara
It occurred to me to google "double surnames" which led to an
interesting Wikipedia article "Double-barrelled surnames." That author
immediately pointed to the "Smith" case; use of a preceding surname
helps distinguish the family from so many others with that last name.
That article goes on to discuss the practice in various cultures, some
of which customarily hyphenate while others don't. Plus there's a
separate article on Iberian naming customs, a whole 'nother thing.
I suppose book and music store personnel have to think about where the
customer would look, as well as about proper alphabetizing!
Barbara
Buffalo, New York
Oleg Lego
Not being a Vaughan Williams fan, I would probably look under "W" is
someone asked me to pick up something by him (it?, them?). I gather it
should be under "V", but don't know why.
rzed
news:1169562376.6...@d71g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
Given the terms you're using, you seem to be regarding the staff
as deficient in some way because they shelve material in more than
one location. Contrarily, I give them credit for trying to help
browsing customers find what they're looking for, even if it is in
the wrong place (by one shelving convention).
It's more difficult and expensive to keep two locations stocked.
It would be easier and cheaper to keep the items in one location
and point and grunt to get their customers to wander in that
direction, but then the aue grumps would be complaining about
their manners and their lack of foresight for not having the thing
in both locations.
One bookstore that employed me for a short while kept their stock
alphabetically by title within author within publisher, which made
it easy to reshelve (and reasonably unambiguous as to location),
but practically impossible to browse in.
--
rzed
Frances Kemmish
> One bookstore that employed me for a short while kept their stock
> alphabetically by title within author within publisher, which made
> it easy to reshelve (and reasonably unambiguous as to location),
> but practically impossible to browse in.
>
The alternative, I suppose, would be the method used by Foyles[1]. I
never did work out what it was.
Fran
[1] Large bookshop on Charing Cross Road in London. It was difficult to
get around, impossible to find what you were looking for, and they
employed staff who combined churlishness with ignorance in a way rarely
found in nature.
Mike M
Because his name was Ralph Vaughan Williams. Ralph (pronounced "Rafe")
was his Christian name, Vaughan Williams (no hyphen) was his surname.
But thinking his Christian name was "Vaughan" is an easy mistake to
make if you're not in the know. I would expect record shop staff to
know this, but unfortunately, many of them might as well be on
supermarket checkouts for all the knowledge of the subject they
display.
Mike M
R H Draney
>
>One bookstore that employed me for a short while kept their stock
>alphabetically by title within author within publisher, which made
>it easy to reshelve (and reasonably unambiguous as to location),
>but practically impossible to browse in.
And even "alphabetically by title within author" is inconvenient when the
individual titles form a series (unless the author is Sue Grafton)....
Chicago put out most of their albums with numeric titles...at first they used
Roman numerals, which if you considered "Chicago at Carnegie Hall" another name
for "Chicago IV" would have made them alphabetical as well...such a scheme was
destined to break down with "Chicago IX", which was actually called "Chicago's
Greatest Hits", and they broke the pattern completely with the next album, "Hot
Streets"....r
--
"You got Schadenfreude on my Weltanschauung!"
"You got Weltanschauung in my Schadenfreude!"
Vinny Burgoo
>"Mike M" <mikm...@googlemail.com> wrote in
[...]
>> Record shops are no better. I've seen Vaughan Williams under
>> "W".
>
>Given the terms you're using, you seem to be regarding the staff
>as deficient in some way because they shelve material in more than
>one location. Contrarily, I give them credit for trying to help
>browsing customers find what they're looking for, even if it is in
>the wrong place (by one shelving convention).
>
>It's more difficult and expensive to keep two locations stocked.
>It would be easier and cheaper to keep the items in one location
>and point and grunt to get their customers to wander in that
>direction, but then the aue grumps would be complaining about
>their manners and their lack of foresight for not having the thing
>in both locations.
But in the examples I was thinking of, the George MacDonald Fraser books
in stock weren't stocked in both locations. In the Telford Waterstones,
for example, his Flashman books were filed with the fiction Fs. The
McAuslans and the other non-Flashman books (including some non-fiction)
were filed with the fiction Ms.
It's enough to drive a chap into the arms of Amazon.
Vinny Burgoo
Wonderful for browsing, though. You never knew what you were going to
chance upon next. I do hope it's still going.
Oleg Lego
On the other hand, if I was asked to pick up a Vaughan Williams item,
I sure wouldn't be looking for it in the "W" section, so perhaps the
store employee (or the boss) are not so dumb after all.
Evan Kirshenbaum
> Chicago put out most of their albums with numeric titles...at first
> they used Roman numerals, which if you considered "Chicago at
> Carnegie Hall" another name for "Chicago IV" would have made them
> alphabetical as well...such a scheme was destined to break down with
> "Chicago IX", which was actually called "Chicago's Greatest Hits",
> and they broke the pattern completely with the next album, "Hot
> Streets"....r
But went back to it every once in a while (XIV, XXV, XXVI, and XXX).
The Wikipedia article gives their albums as
The Chicago Transit Authority
Chicago II [originally just "Chicago"]
Chicago III
Chicago at Carnegie Hall
Chicago V
Chicago VI
Chicago VII
Chicago VIII
Chicago IX - Chicago's Greatest Hits
Chicago X
Chicago XI
Hot Streets
Chicago 13
Chicago XIV
Greatest Hits, Volume II
Chicago 16
Chicago 17
Chicago 18
Chicago 19
Greatest Hits 1982-1989
Twenty 1
Night & Day Big Band
The Heart of Chicago 1967-1997
The Heart of Chicago 1967-1998 Volume II
Chicago XXV: The Christmas Album
Chicago XXVI: Live in Concert
The Very Best of: Only the Beginning
The Box
Love Songs
Chicago XXX
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_%28band%29
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |"The Dynamics of Interbeing and
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |Monological Imperatives in 'Dick
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |and Jane' : A Study in Psychic
|Transrelational Modes."
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com | Calvin
(650)857-7572
Sara Lorimer
> But in the examples I was thinking of, the George MacDonald Fraser books
> in stock weren't stocked in both locations. In the Telford Waterstones,
> for example, his Flashman books were filed with the fiction Fs. The
> McAuslans and the other non-Flashman books (including some non-fiction)
> were filed with the fiction Ms.
>
> It's enough to drive a chap into the arms of Amazon.
Speaking of Amazons: there's a bookstore in Seattle that shelves its
fiction by male writers and female writers on separate shelves. (Or at
least they did ten years ago, the last time I was there.)
--
SML
Salvatore Volatile
> The Wikipedia article gives their albums as
>
> The Chicago Transit Authority
Though the album spine said "CHICAGO TRANSIT AUTHORITY I" as I recall.
--
Salvatore Volatile
Evan Kirshenbaum
> Evan Kirshenbaum wrote:
>> The Wikipedia article gives their albums as
>>
>> The Chicago Transit Authority
>
> Though the album spine said "CHICAGO TRANSIT AUTHORITY I" as I
> recall.
I suspect that it didn't when it was originally issued. My
understanding is that the first two albums were _The Chicago Transit
Authority_ and _Chicago_, and only after the third album came out did
they decide to retcon the earlier ones.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |The General Theorem of Usenet
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |Information: If you really want to
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |know the definitive answer, post
|the wrong information, and wait for
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com |someone to come by and explain in
(650)857-7572 |excruciating detail precisely how
|wrong you are.
http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ | Eric The Read
R H Draney
>
>Speaking of Amazons: there's a bookstore in Seattle that shelves its
>fiction by male writers and female writers on separate shelves. (Or at
>least they did ten years ago, the last time I was there.)
Where would they put "The Policeman's Beard Is Half-Constructed"?...r
R J Valentine
} Evan Kirshenbaum wrote:
}> The Wikipedia article gives their albums as
}>
}> The Chicago Transit Authority
}
} Though the album spine said "CHICAGO TRANSIT AUTHORITY I" as I recall.
If you want to talk spines, how about:
MALEDICTA I-1 (1977)
MALEDICTA I-2 - LEGMAN FESTSCHRIFT
MALEdiCTA 1978
MALEdiCTA 3
MALEDICTA IV-1 (1980)
MALEDICTA IV-2 (1980)
MALEdiCTA 1981
MALEdiCTA 1982
MALEdiCTA 1983
MALEdiCTA 8
MALEdiCTA 9
MALEdiCTA 10
MALEDICTA 11
MALEDICTA 12
(13 I think I have, but it eludes me since the move.)
Is 14 out yet? If not, will it be:
MALEdiCTA 14 - Monkey's Uncle
--
rjv
Vinny Burgoo
>Speaking of Amazons: there's a bookstore in Seattle that shelves its
>fiction by male writers and female writers on separate shelves. (Or at
>least they did ten years ago, the last time I was there.)
Jolly good idea, what-what. Ideally, they would be in separate rooms.
Or, better, shops. That way a chap wouldn't find himself accidentally
enthralled by Jade's long and troubled entanglement with Sir Hugh
D'Yarse, the taciturn and sometimes brutal entrepreneur, champion skier
and chateau-owner who, Jade knows, deep down really wants to change but
just hasn't had the right opportunities - or, dare she hope, the right
woman.
There's also the Anita Brookner problem. Just touching one of her books
can drain all the blood right out of a chap's body. Very nasty. Saw it
happen once. Dreadful business. Squatter was never quite the same
afterwards. Quit the army and opened a wool shop, I believe.
--
V
Amethyst Deceiver
> rzed wrote:
>
>> One bookstore that employed me for a short while kept their stock
>> alphabetically by title within author within publisher, which made
>> it easy to reshelve (and reasonably unambiguous as to location),
>> but practically impossible to browse in.
>>
>
> The alternative, I suppose, would be the method used by Foyles[1]. I
> never did work out what it was.
By publisher, iirc.
--
Linz
Wet Yorks via Cambridge, York, London and Watford
My accent may vary
Archie Valparaiso
wrought:
Tales of Unisex Bookshop-Browsing #1
Late Seventies. A bookshop on Notting Hill Gate. I'm browsing. A
woman's browsing next to me. Christ, it's Julie Christie. We make eye
contact. I fall even more hopelessly in love than I'd been ever since
I saw *McCabe and Mrs Miller*. She makes her purchase and leaves. I
never see her again.
Several years later I would rent a flat above that bookshop in the
hope that some of her perfume might have impregnated the fabric of the
building, several molecules of which might still remain.
Some chance. There was a dentist's on the first floor between my gaff
and the bookshop so the whole place actually stank of mouthwash. Aw,
bugger.
--
Archie Valparaiso
(Me? I blame the weather.)
Vinny Burgoo
>Tales of Unisex Bookshop-Browsing #1
>
>Late Seventies. A bookshop on Notting Hill Gate. I'm browsing. A
>woman's browsing next to me. Christ, it's Julie Christie. We make eye
>contact. I fall even more hopelessly in love than I'd been ever since
>I saw *McCabe and Mrs Miller*. She makes her purchase and leaves. I
>never see her again.
>
>Several years later I would rent a flat above that bookshop in the
>hope that some of her perfume might have impregnated the fabric of the
>building, several molecules of which might still remain.
>
>Some chance. There was a dentist's on the first floor between my gaff
>and the bookshop so the whole place actually stank of mouthwash. Aw,
>bugger.
You must have had it bad. That's perilously close to stalking.
You should have gone to Mercia (not to be confused with Murcia*) instead
and sniffed her folly. No dentists for miles:
http://www.odd-stuff.info/follies/flounders.htm
*I wonder if they are etymological cousins. Mercia is related to
"Marches", in the badlands sense. I couldn't find anything online about
Murcia's etymology, just a few unkind jokes about murciar, to rob.
--
V
Archie Valparaiso
wrought:
>In alt.usage.english, Archie Valparaiso wrote:
>
>>Tales of Unisex Bookshop-Browsing #1
>>
>>Late Seventies. A bookshop on Notting Hill Gate. I'm browsing. A
>>woman's browsing next to me. Christ, it's Julie Christie. We make eye
>>contact. I fall even more hopelessly in love than I'd been ever since
>>I saw *McCabe and Mrs Miller*. She makes her purchase and leaves. I
>>never see her again.
>>
>>Several years later I would rent a flat above that bookshop in the
>>hope that some of her perfume might have impregnated the fabric of the
>>building, several molecules of which might still remain.
>>
>>Some chance. There was a dentist's on the first floor between my gaff
>>and the bookshop so the whole place actually stank of mouthwash. Aw,
>>bugger.
>
>You must have had it bad. That's perilously close to stalking.
Nah, she was never seen in the bookshop or even area again -- and I
did wait ten years before returning to the Scene of the Vision.
>You should have gone to Mercia (not to be confused with Murcia*) instead
>and sniffed her folly. No dentists for miles:
>
>http://www.odd-stuff.info/follies/flounders.htm
Such a fine folly is not to be sniffed at.
>*I wonder if they are etymological cousins. Mercia is related to
>"Marches", in the badlands sense. I couldn't find anything online about
>Murcia's etymology, just a few unkind jokes about murciar, to rob.
Ah, it was them Romans that called it that, meaning "place of much
murk", so there may well be an underlying badlands connection there
somewhere.[1]
And I wonder if either Mercia or Murcia could be related to Lord Joe
Mercer of Maine Road?
[1. Proper-ish answer: According to Spanish Wikipedia "Murcia" is a
corruption of its Moorish name, Madina Mursiya. Maybe Yusuf will tell
us what that means.]
Vinny Burgoo
>On Wed, 24 Jan 2007 20:03:37 +0000, Vinny Burgoo <hnN...@yahoo.co.uk>
>>*I wonder if they are etymological cousins. Mercia is related to
>>"Marches", in the badlands sense. I couldn't find anything online about
>>Murcia's etymology, just a few unkind jokes about murciar, to rob.
>
>Ah, it was them Romans that called it that, meaning "place of much
>murk", so there may well be an underlying badlands connection there
>somewhere.[1]
>
>And I wonder if either Mercia or Murcia could be related to Lord Joe
>Mercer of Maine Road?
>
>[1. Proper-ish answer: According to Spanish Wikipedia "Murcia" is a
>corruption of its Moorish name, Madina Mursiya. Maybe Yusuf will tell
>us what that means.]
In the meantime, some ersatz googlearning:
A Mursiya (Marsiyah etc.) is apparently a type of elegy.
Madina (Medina etc.) just means town.
--
V
Mike Lyle
[...]
> Madina (Medina etc.) just means town.
And may often have a Rabat nearby. That means suburb.
--
Mike.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
athel...@yahoo
On Jan 25, 4:39 pm, Vinny Burgoo <hnN...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
[ ... ]
> >[1. Proper-ish answer: According to Spanish Wikipedia "Murcia" is a
> >corruption of its Moorish name, Madina Mursiya. Maybe Yusuf will tell
> >us what that means.]
And maybe he won't bother, now that Daniel has been so unnecessarily
offensive.
athel
Daniel al-Autistiqui
wrote:
[...]
>
>Because his name was Ralph Vaughan Williams. Ralph (pronounced "Rafe")
>was his Christian name, Vaughan Williams (no hyphen) was his surname.
>
>But thinking his Christian name was "Vaughan" is an easy mistake to
>make if you're not in the know. I would expect record shop staff to
>know this, but unfortunately, many of them might as well be on
>supermarket checkouts for all the knowledge of the subject they
>display.
>
I'm starting to lose the ability to tolerate this practice. If
someone wants to be called "Ralph Vaughan Williams" and say that both
"Vaughan" and "Williams" belong to the surname, they must write it
with a hyphen or else "Vaughan" becomes a middle name. (It is true
that a lot of other people in his family may have had names ending
with "Vaughan Williams", but in that case they simply had the same
middle name -- which, I suppose, was often a *second* middle name.
I'm dubious about whether someone can demand that their name be
spelled "Ralph" and pronounced "Rafe", but that's another matter
entirely.)
In this connection, I should note that I've looked several times
recently at a copy of my birth certificate; it shows my name as being,
quite simply, "DANIEL GERARD MC GRATH", with nothing at all to
indicate "first name", "middle name", and "last name". Thus, how do
we know that "Mc" is not legally my second middle name and "Grath" my
surname? I think of it as "Daniel" (first name), "Gerard" (middle
name), "McGrath" (last name); but I was always taught to write
"McGrath" without the space. Was I really supposed to be writing "Mc
Grath" all along? (And should I have learned to capitalize every
single letter in the name, as the birth certificate indicates?)
Now, I suppose that there could exist, somewhere, a man who writes his
name exactly like mine -- "Daniel Gerard McGrath", with no hyphens --
but insists that his surname is "Gerard McGrath". To make such a
demand is, IMO, ridiculous. As far as I am concerned, he has the very
same name as me. On the other hand, "Ralph Vaughan Williams" by my
logic would have to go under "R". Before you know it we may actually
have to start doing it this way.
daniel mcgrath
--
Daniel Gerard McGrath, a/k/a "Govende":
for e-mail replace "invalid" with "com"
Developmentally disabled;
has Autism (Pervasive Developmental Disorder),
Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder,
& periodic bouts of depression.
[This signature is under construction.]
Oleg Lego
That's indeed the way I catalogue all the MP3s I have. They are in
directories, and are under the name I recognize the artist by.
Directory name:
3 Doors Down
Esther & Abi Ofarim
Flatt and Scruggs
Luther Wright and the Wrongs
Stompin' Tom Connors
and so on
Nick Atty
<gove...@hotmail.invalid> wrote:
>On 23 Jan 2007 08:37:14 -0800, "Mike M" <mikm...@googlemail.com>
>wrote:
>
>[...]
>>
>>Because his name was Ralph Vaughan Williams. Ralph (pronounced "Rafe")
>>was his Christian name, Vaughan Williams (no hyphen) was his surname.
>>
>>But thinking his Christian name was "Vaughan" is an easy mistake to
>>make if you're not in the know. I would expect record shop staff to
>>know this, but unfortunately, many of them might as well be on
>>supermarket checkouts for all the knowledge of the subject they
>>display.
>>
>I'm starting to lose the ability to tolerate this practice. If
>someone wants to be called "Ralph Vaughan Williams" and say that both
>"Vaughan" and "Williams" belong to the surname, they must write it
>with a hyphen or else "Vaughan" becomes a middle name. (It is true
>that a lot of other people in his family may have had names ending
>with "Vaughan Williams", but in that case they simply had the same
>middle name -- which, I suppose, was often a *second* middle name.
>I'm dubious about whether someone can demand that their name be
>spelled "Ralph" and pronounced "Rafe", but that's another matter
>entirely.)
It's a pity Brian {Hamilton Kelly} isn't still around, or I'd set him
loose on you!
--
On-line canal route planner: http://www.canalplan.org.uk
(Waterways World site of the month, April 2001)
My Reply-To address *is* valid, though likely to die soon
Maria
>
> Now, I suppose that there could exist, somewhere, a man who writes his
> name exactly like mine -- "Daniel Gerard McGrath", with no hyphens --
> but insists that his surname is "Gerard McGrath". To make such a
> demand is, IMO, ridiculous. As far as I am concerned, he has the very
> same name as me. On the other hand, "Ralph Vaughan Williams" by my
> logic would have to go under "R". Before you know it we may actually
> have to start doing it this way.
I find those double-barreled but non-hyphenated last names confusing.
That may be because they are not common at all in the US.
If you and I were Brits, we might think differently on the issue.
Yes?
--
Maria
Resident of southeast Michigan, near Detroit; native of east Tennessee.
There's only one 'n' in my email address, and it's not in my first name.
(The email address I use in this newsgroup is munged.)
Maria
> Daniel al-Autistiqui wrote, in part:
>> Now, I suppose that there could exist, somewhere, a man who writes
>> his name exactly like mine -- "Daniel Gerard McGrath", with no
>> hyphens -- but insists that his surname is "Gerard McGrath". To
>> make such a demand is, IMO, ridiculous. As far as I am concerned,
>> he has the very same name as me. On the other hand, "Ralph Vaughan
>> Williams" by my logic would have to go under "R". Before you know
>> it we may actually have to start doing it this way.
>
> That's indeed the way I catalogue all the MP3s I have. They are in
> directories, and are under the name I recognize the artist by.
>
>
> Directory name:
>
> 3 Doors Down
> Esther & Abi Ofarim
> Flatt and Scruggs
> Luther Wright and the Wrongs
> Stompin' Tom Connors
>
> and so on
Flatt and Scruggs? You're my kind of Music Man, though I can't say I've
heard of the others.
Re directories and last names: The company I used to work for (before
retirement set in) had an employee directory which was alphabetized by
first names. This was great -- we all used first names for each other
anyway, and often wouldn't have known what last name to look under.
Recently, I saw a copy of the current directory. It's now in last-name
order. My reaction was to wonder if the place has reverted to the dark
days of the past with employees Mistering, Missusing, and Missing each
other all the day long.
R H Draney
>
>I find those double-barreled but non-hyphenated last names confusing.
>That may be because they are not common at all in the US.
In some parts of the US they're *quite* common...I've got loads of people with
names like "De Los Santos" around me...between them and the likes of "Eula May
Jones" and "Billy Joe Smith" I had a heck of a time writing a program to split
names into alphabetizable firsts and lasts....r
Oleg Lego
>Oleg Lego wrote:
>> Daniel al-Autistiqui wrote, in part:
>
>>> Now, I suppose that there could exist, somewhere, a man who writes
>>> his name exactly like mine -- "Daniel Gerard McGrath", with no
>>> hyphens -- but insists that his surname is "Gerard McGrath". To
>>> make such a demand is, IMO, ridiculous. As far as I am concerned,
>>> he has the very same name as me. On the other hand, "Ralph Vaughan
>>> Williams" by my logic would have to go under "R". Before you know
>>> it we may actually have to start doing it this way.
>>
>> That's indeed the way I catalogue all the MP3s I have. They are in
>> directories, and are under the name I recognize the artist by.
>>
>>
>> Directory name:
>>
>> 3 Doors Down
>> Esther & Abi Ofarim
>> Flatt and Scruggs
>> Luther Wright and the Wrongs
>> Stompin' Tom Connors
>>
>> and so on
>
>Flatt and Scruggs? You're my kind of Music Man, though I can't say I've
>heard of the others.
3 Doors Down is rock, fairly heavy.
Esther & Abi Ofarim are German (well, they sing in German). Very nice
harmony. My favourite is _Noch einen Tanz_ ... (from memory)
Schatz, geh' nach Haus,
Dein Mann, er ist Krank.
Wie ist er Krank,
Medizin steht in Schrank.
Luther Wright and the Wrongs. Canadian group. Best they do is _A
frozen Puck to the Head_" ...
"Love hit him, like a frozen puck tot he head."
Stompin' Tom Connors is a Canadian icon. Sings a wide variety of
songs, many of which are quite funny. He's from Prince Edward Island,
and his trademark is a largish piece of plywood which he uses to stomp
on with the heel of his boot, in time to his guitar and vocals.
My favourite of his is _The Ballad of Muktuk Annie_
Lemme tell ya th' story of Muktuk Annie
Who came south to go t' school
With a see-through blouse
And seal-skin mini,
Ol' Annie sure looked cool
She blew inta Montreal
In the early fall
Like nothin' they'd ever seen
With long black hair and reindeer underwear
She weighed about two-sixteen
Let's see... if you like Flat & Scruggs, you'd like some of my
others...
Allen Shelton
Bill Monroe
Boxcar Willie
Charlie Walker
Doug Kershaw
George Jones
Hazel Dickens
Holy Modal Rounders
Homer & Jethro
Hoyt Axton (have you heard _You're the Hangnail in my Life_?)
John Hartford
Laurie Lewis
Mike Snider
Ralph Stanley
Ricky Skaggs
The Stonemans
Tommy Jackson
Stanley Brothers
Stringbean
Walt Koken
A friend once described my tastes in music as "violently eclectic".
I love humourous songs (Fred Dagg, Kevin Bloody Wilson, McLean &
McLean, Red Peters, Tim Wilson, Heywood Banks), clever rhymes (is
anyone better than Paul Simon or Tom Lehrer at them?), classical (Fave
is Rossini's _Thieving Magpie Overture_, country, western, rock, big
band, african, and that's just a few classifications I can think of.
Tony Cooper
wrote:
>Let's see... if you like Flat & Scruggs, you'd like some of my
>others...
>
>Allen Shelton
>Bill Monroe
>Boxcar Willie
>Charlie Walker
>Doug Kershaw
>George Jones
>Hazel Dickens
>Holy Modal Rounders
>Homer & Jethro
>Hoyt Axton (have you heard _You're the Hangnail in my Life_?)
>John Hartford
>Laurie Lewis
>Mike Snider
>Ralph Stanley
>Ricky Skaggs
>The Stonemans
>Tommy Jackson
>Stanley Brothers
>Stringbean
>Walt Koken
>
The only name above that appears on my list is Hoyt Axton. I'll never
forgive the person who stole my case of 8-tracks that included "A
Rusty Old Halo" (best cut: "Della and the Dealer"). The album never
came out in cassette form, but I see it's now available - with some of
his other older stuff - on CD. I'll have to order a couple.
He was the first to come out with "Greenback Dollar", which was later
made famous by those three guys in the striped shirts. I saw them
sing in a small bar in Chicago (The Old Town Pub) before they hit it
big.
Hoyt's mother earned her chops, too. She wrote "Heartbreak Hotel"
among other songs. That was the song that launched Elvis, and Mae was
the one who put Elvis and Col Parker together.
--
Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL
Maria
> The Maria entity posted thusly:
>> Flatt and Scruggs? You're my kind of Music Man, though I can't say
>> I've heard of the others.
> Let's see... if you like Flat & Scruggs, you'd like some of my
> others...
>
> Allen Shelton
> Bill Monroe
> Boxcar Willie
> Charlie Walker
> Doug Kershaw
> George Jones
> Hazel Dickens
> Holy Modal Rounders
> Homer & Jethro
> Hoyt Axton (have you heard _You're the Hangnail in my Life_?)
> John Hartford
> Laurie Lewis
> Mike Snider
> Ralph Stanley
> Ricky Skaggs
> The Stonemans
> Tommy Jackson
> Stanley Brothers
> Stringbean
> Walt Koken
I'm familiar with several of the above. Generally, I like Bluegrass and
some "country" (along with many other kinds of music).
> A friend once described my tastes in music as "violently eclectic".
Take out the "violently" and you've got my tastes in music. But that's
normal, isn't it? Give me Classical, give me Rock, give me sound tracks
from Broadway shows, give me Folk, give me Polkas, give me it all, every
kind. Hey, I even liked Liberace. And, of course, Gershwin and Cole
Porter. Did I mention Dylan? Bobby Darin? The Rolling Stones? Paul
Whiteman?
> I love humourous songs (Fred Dagg, Kevin Bloody Wilson, McLean &
> McLean, Red Peters, Tim Wilson, Heywood Banks),
You left out Weird Al, Ray Stevens, Stan Freberg, Spike Jones, and maybe
a few others.
> ....clever rhymes (is
> anyone better than Paul Simon or Tom Lehrer at them?), classical (Fave
> is Rossini's _Thieving Magpie Overture_, country, western, rock, big
> band, african, and that's just a few classifications I can think of.
It's a problem sometimes to remember song titles and the names of the
musicians and/or singers. But once I hear the first few bars, the names
(and the lyrics, if any) come back to me.
Tomorrow, I think I'll listen to a few albums.
--
Maria
R H Draney
>
>A friend once described my tastes in music as "violently eclectic".
>I love humourous songs (Fred Dagg, Kevin Bloody Wilson, McLean &
>McLean, Red Peters, Tim Wilson, Heywood Banks), clever rhymes (is
>anyone better than Paul Simon or Tom Lehrer at them?),
Maria mentioned Weird Al in connection with the first parenthesis, but he
belongs here too...so does Allan Sherman....
> classical (Fave
>is Rossini's _Thieving Magpie Overture_, country, western, rock, big
>band, african, and that's just a few classifications I can think of.
*So* close on the Rossini; my own fave classical piece is the overture for "The
Italian Girl in Algiers"....r
Maria
> Maria filted:
>>
>> I find those double-barreled but non-hyphenated last names confusing.
>> That may be because they are not common at all in the US.
>
> In some parts of the US they're *quite* common...I've got loads of
> people with names like "De Los Santos" around me...between them and
> the likes of "Eula May Jones" and "Billy Joe Smith" I had a heck of a
> time writing a program to split names into alphabetizable firsts and
> lasts....r
And Mexican/Latino names are not unheard of in Daytwa. (What's "Detroit"
in mejicano?) I think (not positive) that "De Los Whatever" would be in
the phone book under the "D" listings.
In my Address Book (Outlook Express), one can alphabetize by first or
last name. First and last names are in two separate boxes. Sorting is
controlled by what one places in the First Name and Last Name boxes.
It's like sorting the way one wants in Excel, yes?
Pat Durkin
"Maria" <maria...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:M3Nuh.13933$ji1....@newssvr12.news.prodigy.net...
>R H Draney wrote:
>> Maria filted:
>>>
>>> I find those double-barreled but non-hyphenated last names
>>> confusing.
>>> That may be because they are not common at all in the US.
>>
>> In some parts of the US they're *quite* common...I've got loads of
>> people with names like "De Los Santos" around me...between them and
>> the likes of "Eula May Jones" and "Billy Joe Smith" I had a heck of a
>> time writing a program to split names into alphabetizable firsts and
>> lasts....r
>
> And Mexican/Latino names are not unheard of in Daytwa. (What's
> "Detroit" in mejicano?) I think (not positive) that "De Los Whatever"
> would be in the phone book under the "D" listings.
>
> In my Address Book (Outlook Express), one can alphabetize by first or
> last name. First and last names are in two separate boxes. Sorting is
> controlled by what one places in the First Name and Last Name boxes.
> It's like sorting the way one wants in Excel, yes?
>
I don't have Excel, but if you mean by clicking at the head of a column,
then yes. My email address book sorts in that manner. (OE user. Love
it.)
Oleg Lego
Most are bluegrass or bluegrass-ish country. I did that because Maria
said she liked Flat & Scruggs.
> I'll never
>forgive the person who stole my case of 8-tracks that included "A
>Rusty Old Halo" (best cut: "Della and the Dealer"). The album never
>came out in cassette form, but I see it's now available - with some of
>his other older stuff - on CD. I'll have to order a couple.
"Della and the Dealer' is a great piece.
>He was the first to come out with "Greenback Dollar", which was later
>made famous by those three guys in the striped shirts. I saw them
>sing in a small bar in Chicago (The Old Town Pub) before they hit it
>big.
>
>Hoyt's mother earned her chops, too. She wrote "Heartbreak Hotel"
>among other songs. That was the song that launched Elvis, and Mae was
>the one who put Elvis and Col Parker together.
Who originally sang "Heartbreak Hotel"? I was thinking Big Mama
Thornton, but perhaps that was "Hound Dog", or perhaps my memory is
totally shot.
Sara Lorimer
> Re directories and last names: The company I used to work for (before
> retirement set in) had an employee directory which was alphabetized by
> first names. This was great -- we all used first names for each other
> anyway, and often wouldn't have known what last name to look under.
I Have Heard that that's how the phone book is organized in Iceland.
--
L, SM
Oleg Lego
Sounds like you are more eclectic in taste than I am. I really don't
like show tunes.
>> I love humourous songs (Fred Dagg, Kevin Bloody Wilson, McLean &
>> McLean, Red Peters, Tim Wilson, Heywood Banks),
>
>You left out Weird Al, Ray Stevens, Stan Freberg, Spike Jones, and maybe
>a few others.
I left out many. In addition to your list, I like:
The Arrogant Worms Moxie Fruvous
Mother Tucker's Yellow Duck Alan Sherman
Homer & Jethro The Chad Mitchell Trio
Barenaked Ladies Jack Blanchard and Misty Morgan
Rodney Carrington Todd Yohn
Buddy Whasisname & the Other Fellers
Bobby Bare Nilsson
Arlo Guthrie Dennis Leary
Da Yoopers (I know you've heard of this one)
The Fugs Jerry Jeff Walker
Too many more...
Oleg Lego
>Oleg Lego filted:
>>
>>A friend once described my tastes in music as "violently eclectic".
>>I love humourous songs (Fred Dagg, Kevin Bloody Wilson, McLean &
>>McLean, Red Peters, Tim Wilson, Heywood Banks), clever rhymes (is
>>anyone better than Paul Simon or Tom Lehrer at them?),
>
>Maria mentioned Weird Al in connection with the first parenthesis, but he
>belongs here too...so does Allan Sherman....
>
>> classical (Fave
>>is Rossini's _Thieving Magpie Overture_, country, western, rock, big
>>band, african, and that's just a few classifications I can think of.
>
>*So* close on the Rossini; my own fave classical piece is the overture for "The
>Italian Girl in Algiers"....r
Don't have that one. I'll see if I can find it.
Salvatore Volatile
> And Mexican/Latino names are not unheard of in Daytwa. (What's "Detroit"
> in mejicano?)
Estrecho.
--
Salvatore Volatile
R H Draney
>
>R H Draney wrote:
>> Maria filted:
>>>
>>> I find those double-barreled but non-hyphenated last names confusing.
>>> That may be because they are not common at all in the US.
>>
>> In some parts of the US they're *quite* common...I've got loads of
>> people with names like "De Los Santos" around me...between them and
>> the likes of "Eula May Jones" and "Billy Joe Smith" I had a heck of a
>> time writing a program to split names into alphabetizable firsts and
>> lasts....r
>
>And Mexican/Latino names are not unheard of in Daytwa. (What's "Detroit"
>in mejicano?) I think (not positive) that "De Los Whatever" would be in
>the phone book under the "D" listings.
Not sure about "De", but convention dictates that such things as movie titles be
alphabetized with both initial definite and indefinite articles suppressed, and
further stipulates that this applies even when the articles are not
English...this led to some amusing snafus when an automated process was used to
prepare the weekly television movie listings in our paper: "LA Confidential"
was found listed under C....r
Robert Lieblich
[ . . .]
> Not sure about "De", but convention dictates that such things as movie titles be
> alphabetized with both initial definite and indefinite articles suppressed, and
> further stipulates that this applies even when the articles are not
> English...this led to some amusing snafus when an automated process was used to
> prepare the weekly television movie listings in our paper: "LA Confidential"
> was found listed under C
IMDB lists the title as "L.A. Confidential." Either the title was
input without the punctuation or the software wasn't sophisticated
enough to detect it.
--
Bob Lieblich
Punctuation matters
sig...@binet.is
The entire country is on a first name basis, you do not adress anybody
by his last name either.
Pat Durkin
<sig...@binet.is> wrote in message
news:1169998741....@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Isn't the last name a combination of "son" or "datter", plus the
father's given name? Maybe, at times the mother's given name is used.
Well, that convention may not be in vogue any longer. I should think,
though, that the first name is sufficient, unless there are 2 or more
with the same given name involved in the conversation. Then, the family
name might be used.
Don't the Russians have a very-much-multiplied first name system? Don't
they really draw all kinds of degrees of familiarity, what with their
diminutives, and patronymics?
Tony Cooper
wrote:
>Don't the Russians have a very-much-multiplied first name system? Don't
>they really draw all kinds of degrees of familiarity, what with their
>diminutives, and patronymics?
>
God, yes. I remarked to my D-I-L that a book that I'm currently
reading has four variations of names for Nicolai (also my grandson's
name) and she replied "Only four?"
Skitt
> <sig...@binet.is> wrote
>> Sara Lorimer wrote:
>>> Maria wrote:
>>>> Re directories and last names: The company I used to work for
>>>> (before retirement set in) had an employee directory which
>>>> was alphabetized by first names. This was great -- we all
>>>> used first names for each other anyway, and often wouldn't
>>>> have known what last name to look under.
>>>
>>> I Have Heard that that's how the phone book is organized in Iceland.
>>
>> The entire country is on a first name basis, you do not adress
>> anybody by his last name either.
>
> Isn't the last name a combination of "son" or "datter",
dottir
> plus the father's given name? [...]
--
Skitt
Jes' fine
Default User
They don't have last names the way most of the rest of the world does.
It's straight patronyms, with either "son" or "dottir" stuck on the end
of one's father's first name. So a man would quite possibly have a
different last name than his father, and certainly different than his
sister.
Brian
--
If televison's a babysitter, the Internet is a drunk librarian who
won't shut up.
-- Dorothy Gambrell (http://catandgirl.com)
Daniel al-Autistiqui
I had no idea that he had died until just this past Friday, when I had
been trying to search Google Groups for more information on these
"double surnames" and I happened to see the AUE thread of August 2005.
Well, now that he's left us, I suppose that some people might prefer
to go against his wishes and call him "Mr. Kelly" or "Mr.
Hamilton-Kelly", much as many books print the surname of Edward
FitzGerald (1809-1883) as "Fitzgerald".
Speaking of which, I've wondered for some time about the indexing of
the original author of the Rubaiyat. The name Omar Khayyam seems to
almost always appear under "O" (although the University of Virginia
Press _Rubáiyát of Omar Khayyám_, edited by Christopher Decker, has
"Khayyám, Omar" in its index, between Kennedy and Khorassan). He is
more commonly called "Omar" on second reference, too. Dictionaries
often list "Khayyam, Omar", cross-referencing it to "Omar Khayyam",
but they don't explain why it's under "O". I can only assume that
"Khayyam" (= "tentmaker") is not generally considered to be a true
surname, though I believe that his father also bore that name.
Perhaps the ancient Persians simply did not have true surnames. There
was another Persian poet named Jalal-ud-din Rumi; and "Jalal-ud-din",
used to refer to him on second reference, is by no means as common as
"Rumi" (the transliteration of the latter is more standardized, in any
case). I was quite surprised to find his name listed under "J" in the
Biographical Names section of MWCD11.
Yusuf B Gursey
wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Jan 2007 19:19:09 +0000, Nick Atty
>
>
>
>
>
> <1-nos...@temporary-address.org.uk> wrote:
> >On Fri, 26 Jan 2007 12:22:54 -0500, Daniel al-Autistiqui
>
> >>On 23 Jan 2007 08:37:14 -0800, "Mike M" <mikmoo...@googlemail.com>
islamic lands did not have family names until modern times, in some
places they are still not required by law.
there was the given name followed by the patronymics, followed by
various names and subriquettes many acquired later in life. see Enc.
of Islam II "Ism" for more details.
> was anotherPersianpoet named Jalal-ud-din Rumi; and "Jalal-ud-din",
> used to refer to him on second reference, is by no means as common as
> "Rumi" (the transliteration of the latter is more standardized, in any
Rumi indicates he was a resident of Anatolia.