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Hassocks or kneelers?
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Guy Barry
May 28, 2014, 7:20:39 AM5/28/14
to
What do you call those little cushions that people kneel on in church? I've
always called them "hassocks", but I was talking to someone yesterday who
referred to them as "kneelers". When I pointed out that I had a different
name for them he said he knew they were properly called hassocks, but most
ordinary people in the congregation called them kneelers, and so he tended
to use the term that was more widely known. I hadn't heard "kneeler" before
but it certainly requires less explanation.
--
Guy Barry
always called them "hassocks", but I was talking to someone yesterday who
referred to them as "kneelers". When I pointed out that I had a different
name for them he said he knew they were properly called hassocks, but most
ordinary people in the congregation called them kneelers, and so he tended
to use the term that was more widely known. I hadn't heard "kneeler" before
but it certainly requires less explanation.
--
Guy Barry
LFS
May 28, 2014, 7:36:58 AM5/28/14
to
a difference between hassocks and kneelers. The first Google hit I found
for "embroidered hassocks" seems to confirm this, although the
difference is unclear:
http://www.achurchnearyou.com/islip-st-nicholas/about-the-embroidered-hassocks-and-cushions.html
Other sites seem to use the words interchangeably.
--
Laura (emulate St George for email)
Guy Barry
May 28, 2014, 7:43:59 AM5/28/14
to
"LFS" wrote in message news:bum02r...@mid.individual.net...
"12 hassocks for the pews and a long kneeler for the Communion Rail were
given and worked by Mrs Hathway Jones." That suggests that hassocks are
cushions for individuals to kneel on, whereas kneelers are cushions for
several people to kneel on. It would certainly make sense.
--
Guy Barry
given and worked by Mrs Hathway Jones." That suggests that hassocks are
cushions for individuals to kneel on, whereas kneelers are cushions for
several people to kneel on. It would certainly make sense.
--
Guy Barry
Tony Cooper
May 28, 2014, 10:55:37 AM5/28/14
to
wooden platforms that fold out for use. No "little cushions" are
provided. If they were cushioned, I would call them "cushioned
kneelers".
If they were cushions that could be placed on the floor, I might call
them "hassocks".
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando FL
James Silverton
May 28, 2014, 11:10:03 AM5/28/14
to
cushion. Kneelers can also consist of low platforms extending the length
of a pew.
--
Jim Silverton (Potomac, MD)
Extraneous "not." in Reply To.
Tony Cooper
May 28, 2014, 11:22:04 AM5/28/14
to
use, and fold back in when not used, they would be an obstruction.
There's usually not much space between the seat the back of the pew in
front of that seat.
The ones that I have seen are the length of a pew, though.
Cheryl
May 28, 2014, 11:29:12 AM5/28/14
to
local churches, but the type that folds back is far more common locally.
I'd call both types 'kneelers' and they sometimes have pads of some
kind, but more often don't.
I'd call the separate little cushions that sit directly on the floor
'hassocks'. I'm not sure what I'd call the long cushions intended for
more than one kneeler at a time that you sometimes find directly on the
floor. A 'hassock', to me, is a smaller, individual cushion; not a long
skinny one.
--
Cheryl
Peter T. Daniels
May 28, 2014, 12:29:37 PM5/28/14
to
hassocks (not that that word occurs much; it's another word for ottoman/
footstool) to be called kneelers. Most of my experience with kneelers is
in Episcopal churches, where they are usually rectangular parallelopiped
cushions, one for each worshiper. The wooden fold-down things mentioned
by Tony prevail in Roman Catholic churches (they seem to welcome
mortification of the flesh whenever possible).
Peter T. Daniels
May 28, 2014, 12:31:00 PM5/28/14
to
On Wednesday, May 28, 2014 11:22:04 AM UTC-4, Tony Cooper wrote:
> I have only noticed the fold-out kind. If they do not fold out for
> use, and fold back in when not used, they would be an obstruction.
> There's usually not much space between the seat the back of the pew in
> front of that seat.
The ones in pries-dieux don't fold down or up.
> I have only noticed the fold-out kind. If they do not fold out for
> use, and fold back in when not used, they would be an obstruction.
> There's usually not much space between the seat the back of the pew in
> front of that seat.
Jenn
May 28, 2014, 12:35:34 PM5/28/14
to
called a "hassock".
--
Jenn
Guy Barry
May 28, 2014, 12:40:32 PM5/28/14
to
"Jenn" wrote in message news:lm538q$1hn$1...@echo.eternal-september.org...
kneel on, but Merriam-Webster gives both definitions:
"a cushion that you kneel on while praying"
"a cushion or soft stool that is used as a seat or for resting your feet"
Is the second an exclusively American usage?
--
Guy Barry
>
>Guy Barry wrote:
>> "12 hassocks for the pews and a long kneeler for the Communion Rail
>> were given and worked by Mrs Hathway Jones." That suggests that
>> hassocks are cushions for individuals to kneel on, whereas kneelers
>> are cushions for several people to kneel on. It would certainly make
>> sense.
>
>Growing up we had a 'foot stool' that was padded with upholstery and it was
>called a "hassock".
Hmm, PTD made a similar comment. I only know a hassock as something you
>Guy Barry wrote:
>> "12 hassocks for the pews and a long kneeler for the Communion Rail
>> were given and worked by Mrs Hathway Jones." That suggests that
>> hassocks are cushions for individuals to kneel on, whereas kneelers
>> are cushions for several people to kneel on. It would certainly make
>> sense.
>
>Growing up we had a 'foot stool' that was padded with upholstery and it was
>called a "hassock".
kneel on, but Merriam-Webster gives both definitions:
"a cushion that you kneel on while praying"
"a cushion or soft stool that is used as a seat or for resting your feet"
Is the second an exclusively American usage?
--
Guy Barry
Jenn
May 28, 2014, 12:52:20 PM5/28/14
to
because my parents called those things hassocks, but I don't hear the term
used very often now-a-days.
--
Jenn
Tony Cooper
May 28, 2014, 1:29:04 PM5/28/14
to
used to mean a piece of furniture is quite normal to me. However, I
don't think of a hassock as a foot stool.
A foot stool has legs and usually an upholstered or padded top. A
hassock has no legs.
http://www.donghiadigest.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/hassock-round-square-and-hexagon1.jpg
Message has been deleted
Peter T. Daniels
May 28, 2014, 1:51:14 PM5/28/14
to
On Wednesday, May 28, 2014 12:52:20 PM UTC-4, Jenn wrote:
> Guy Barry wrote:
> > "Jenn" wrote in message
> > news:lm538q$1hn$1...@echo.eternal-september.org...
> >> Guy Barry wrote:
> >>> "12 hassocks for the pews and a long kneeler for the Communion Rail
> >>> were given and worked by Mrs Hathway Jones." That suggests that
> >>> hassocks are cushions for individuals to kneel on, whereas kneelers
> >>> are cushions for several people to kneel on. It would certainly
> >>> make sense.
> >> Growing up we had a 'foot stool' that was padded with upholstery and
> >> it was called a "hassock".
> > Hmm, PTD made a similar comment. I only know a hassock as something
> > you kneel on, but Merriam-Webster gives both definitions:
> > "a cushion that you kneel on while praying"
> > "a cushion or soft stool that is used as a seat or for resting your
> > feet"
If those are 1. and 2., then that is their historical order of attestation.
> Guy Barry wrote:
> > "Jenn" wrote in message
> > news:lm538q$1hn$1...@echo.eternal-september.org...
> >> Guy Barry wrote:
> >>> "12 hassocks for the pews and a long kneeler for the Communion Rail
> >>> were given and worked by Mrs Hathway Jones." That suggests that
> >>> hassocks are cushions for individuals to kneel on, whereas kneelers
> >>> are cushions for several people to kneel on. It would certainly
> >>> make sense.
> >> Growing up we had a 'foot stool' that was padded with upholstery and
> >> it was called a "hassock".
> > Hmm, PTD made a similar comment. I only know a hassock as something
> > you kneel on, but Merriam-Webster gives both definitions:
> > "a cushion that you kneel on while praying"
> > "a cushion or soft stool that is used as a seat or for resting your
> > feet"
> > Is the second an exclusively American usage?
> It might be more American, but it also might be a bit old-fashioned, too,
> because my parents called those things hassocks, but I don't hear the term
> used very often now-a-days.
![Peter Duncanson [BrE]'s profile photo](http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjU1GGYFBCZgBCNB-pRgkosMu-ej0qpnECw3jc8uGYOTiF8a=s40-c)
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
May 28, 2014, 2:03:43 PM5/28/14
to
context.
>Is the second an exclusively American usage?
--
(in alt.usage.english)
Katy Jennison
May 28, 2014, 3:14:03 PM5/28/14
to
thick, and it lives in pews or, in modernised churches, between the rows
of chairs, whereas the kneeler at an altar rail is much longer and quite
a lot thinner.
--
Katy Jennison
CDB
May 28, 2014, 3:41:58 PM5/28/14
to
On 28/05/2014 12:31 PM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> Tony Cooper wrote:
>> I have only noticed the fold-out kind. If they do not fold out for
>> use, and fold back in when not used, they would be an obstruction.
>> There's usually not much space between the seat the back of the pew
>> in front of that seat.
> The ones in pries-dieux don't fold down or up.
Shades of horse doovers! I looked this one up to be sure: atilf agrees
> Tony Cooper wrote:
>> I have only noticed the fold-out kind. If they do not fold out for
>> use, and fold back in when not used, they would be an obstruction.
>> There's usually not much space between the seat the back of the pew
>> in front of that seat.
> The ones in pries-dieux don't fold down or up.
that the compound is invariable in French: "des prie-dieu". I suppose
English might get away with "prie-dieus", but it looks funny.
Peter T. Daniels
May 28, 2014, 4:27:20 PM5/28/14
to
CDB
May 28, 2014, 4:55:14 PM5/28/14
to
On 28/05/2014 4:27 PM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
verb-object compounds in English, like "spoilsport", but it's much
commoner in French.
> CDB wrote:
>> Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>>> Tony Cooper wrote:
>>>> I have only noticed the fold-out kind. If they do not fold out
>>>> for use, and fold back in when not used, they would be an
>>>> obstruction. There's usually not much space between the seat
>>>> the back of the pew in front of that seat.
>>> The ones in pries-dieux don't fold down or up.
>> Shades of horse doovers! I looked this one up to be sure: atilf
>> agrees that the compound is invariable in French: "des prie-dieu".
>> I suppose English might get away with "prie-dieus", but it looks
>> funny.
> What's the part of speech of "prie" in the French?
It's a verb, but I'm not sure which part of it. There are a few similar
>> Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>>> Tony Cooper wrote:
>>>> I have only noticed the fold-out kind. If they do not fold out
>>>> for use, and fold back in when not used, they would be an
>>>> obstruction. There's usually not much space between the seat
>>>> the back of the pew in front of that seat.
>>> The ones in pries-dieux don't fold down or up.
>> Shades of horse doovers! I looked this one up to be sure: atilf
>> agrees that the compound is invariable in French: "des prie-dieu".
>> I suppose English might get away with "prie-dieus", but it looks
>> funny.
> What's the part of speech of "prie" in the French?
verb-object compounds in English, like "spoilsport", but it's much
commoner in French.
Paul Wolff
May 28, 2014, 5:48:46 PM5/28/14
to
On Wed, 28 May 2014, Katy Jennison <ka...@spamtrap.kjennison.com> posted:
Katy expresses my view too. I'll add that in my experience hassocks tend
to have been embroidered with saintly motifs by church supporters.
In some churches, kneeling for prayer seems to have gone out of fashion,
and with dwindling congregations the hassocks are placed on the pews
where bottoms would have rested in former years. It's a toss-up whether
standing, or tilting forward on the pew edge, is considered the more
appropriate reverential pose at key moments in the service. But when the
church is crowded to standing-room only, hassocks come into their own as
emergency seating on the altar steps.
I have a friend who lives in Hassocks.
--
Paul
to have been embroidered with saintly motifs by church supporters.
In some churches, kneeling for prayer seems to have gone out of fashion,
and with dwindling congregations the hassocks are placed on the pews
where bottoms would have rested in former years. It's a toss-up whether
standing, or tilting forward on the pew edge, is considered the more
appropriate reverential pose at key moments in the service. But when the
church is crowded to standing-room only, hassocks come into their own as
emergency seating on the altar steps.
I have a friend who lives in Hassocks.
--
Paul
Leslie Danks
May 28, 2014, 5:59:13 PM5/28/14
to
--
Leslie (Les) Danks (BrE)
Purity is chemistry's essential Platonic rabbit.
R H Draney
May 28, 2014, 6:09:01 PM5/28/14
to
Paul Wolff filted:
--
Me? Sarcastic?
Yeah, right.
>
>Katy expresses my view too. I'll add that in my experience hassocks tend
>to have been embroidered with saintly motifs by church supporters.
>
>In some churches, kneeling for prayer seems to have gone out of fashion,
>and with dwindling congregations the hassocks are placed on the pews
>where bottoms would have rested in former years. It's a toss-up whether
>standing, or tilting forward on the pew edge, is considered the more
>appropriate reverential pose at key moments in the service. But when the
>church is crowded to standing-room only, hassocks come into their own as
>emergency seating on the altar steps.
>
>I have a friend who lives in Hassocks.
One of my feral cats has socks too....r
>Katy expresses my view too. I'll add that in my experience hassocks tend
>to have been embroidered with saintly motifs by church supporters.
>
>In some churches, kneeling for prayer seems to have gone out of fashion,
>and with dwindling congregations the hassocks are placed on the pews
>where bottoms would have rested in former years. It's a toss-up whether
>standing, or tilting forward on the pew edge, is considered the more
>appropriate reverential pose at key moments in the service. But when the
>church is crowded to standing-room only, hassocks come into their own as
>emergency seating on the altar steps.
>
>I have a friend who lives in Hassocks.
--
Me? Sarcastic?
Yeah, right.
Garrett Wollman
May 28, 2014, 6:24:15 PM5/28/14
to
In article <5DLjK0k+...@wolff.co.uk>,
certainly be self-explanatory. My recollection from long-ago family
churchgoing days was that it was covered not with embroidery but with
plain red leather (or perhaps artificial "leatherette"), and in our
(post-Vatican II) church there was no altar rail.
-GAWollman
--
Garrett A. Wollman | What intellectual phenomenon can be older, or more oft
wol...@bimajority.org| repeated, than the story of a large research program
Opinions not shared by| that impaled itself upon a false central assumption
my employers. | accepted by all practitioners? - S.J. Gould, 1993
Paul Wolff <pa...@two.wolff.co.uk> wrote:
>On Wed, 28 May 2014, Katy Jennison <ka...@spamtrap.kjennison.com> posted:
>On Wed, 28 May 2014, Katy Jennison <ka...@spamtrap.kjennison.com> posted:
>>In MyE a hassock is a rectangular thing, box-shaped, at least six
>>inches thick, and it lives in pews or, in modernised churches, between
>>the rows of chairs, whereas the kneeler at an altar rail is much longer
>>and quite a lot thinner.
>>
>Katy expresses my view too. I'll add that in my experience hassocks tend
>to have been embroidered with saintly motifs by church supporters.
>
>In some churches, kneeling for prayer seems to have gone out of fashion,
>and with dwindling congregations the hassocks are placed on the pews
>where bottoms would have rested in former years.
I'm not sure I know either of those words, although "kneeler" would
>>inches thick, and it lives in pews or, in modernised churches, between
>>the rows of chairs, whereas the kneeler at an altar rail is much longer
>>and quite a lot thinner.
>>
>Katy expresses my view too. I'll add that in my experience hassocks tend
>to have been embroidered with saintly motifs by church supporters.
>
>In some churches, kneeling for prayer seems to have gone out of fashion,
>and with dwindling congregations the hassocks are placed on the pews
>where bottoms would have rested in former years.
certainly be self-explanatory. My recollection from long-ago family
churchgoing days was that it was covered not with embroidery but with
plain red leather (or perhaps artificial "leatherette"), and in our
(post-Vatican II) church there was no altar rail.
-GAWollman
--
Garrett A. Wollman | What intellectual phenomenon can be older, or more oft
wol...@bimajority.org| repeated, than the story of a large research program
Opinions not shared by| that impaled itself upon a false central assumption
my employers. | accepted by all practitioners? - S.J. Gould, 1993
Ross
May 28, 2014, 7:32:21 PM5/28/14
to
On Thursday, May 29, 2014 5:29:04 AM UTC+12, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Wed, 28 May 2014 17:40:32 +0100, "Guy Barry"
>
>
> On Wed, 28 May 2014 17:40:32 +0100, "Guy Barry"
>
>
> I have no idea if it used outside of the US, but the word "hassock"
> used to mean a piece of furniture is quite normal to me. However, I
> don't think of a hassock as a foot stool.
>
> A foot stool has legs and usually an upholstered or padded top. A
> hassock has no legs.
>
> http://www.donghiadigest.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/hassock-round-square-and-hexagon1.jpg
Just like what we had at home in my youth. Leather (or some substitute) stuffed with straw. You could sit on it (though maybe a bit low for adults) or rest your feet on it. Good for a cat, too.
> used to mean a piece of furniture is quite normal to me. However, I
> don't think of a hassock as a foot stool.
>
> A foot stool has legs and usually an upholstered or padded top. A
> hassock has no legs.
>
> http://www.donghiadigest.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/hassock-round-square-and-hexagon1.jpg
We didn't have any such apparatus in church, but I am reminded that a recent a.u.e. thread on limericks led me to the thoroughly indecent but apparently
quite well known one about the Bishop of Birmingham: "as they knelt on a hassock, he lifted his cassock...". Said limerick neglects to specify whether
the Bishop was RC or CofE.
Robert Bannister
May 28, 2014, 8:59:45 PM5/28/14
to
--
Robert Bannister - 1940-71 SE England
1972-now W Australia
Peter T. Daniels
May 28, 2014, 11:10:44 PM5/28/14
to
On Wednesday, May 28, 2014 5:48:46 PM UTC-4, Paul Wolff wrote:
> Katy expresses my view too. I'll add that in my experience hassocks tend
> to have been embroidered with saintly motifs by church supporters.
The National Cathedral (Episcopal) in Washington, D.C., has a book about
> Katy expresses my view too. I'll add that in my experience hassocks tend
> to have been embroidered with saintly motifs by church supporters.
the hundreds of kneelers that were embroidered for all its side-chapels
and such by devout ladies from around the country (and probably abroad).
David D S
May 29, 2014, 3:17:05 AM5/29/14
to
a shit bomb, which ties in with that other thread.
--
David D S: UK and PR China. (Native BrEng speaker)
Use Reply-To header for email. This email address will be
valid for at least 2 weeks from 2014/5/29 15:16:25
David D S
May 29, 2014, 3:21:01 AM5/29/14
to
Paul Wolff wrote:
>[snip, ...]
Sussex district of West Sussex, England. Its name is
believed to derive from the tufts of grass found in the
surrounding fields." (wikipedia entry. I suspect that this
is quite accurate, given that I know who works on these
local geography articles.)
--
David D S: UK and PR China. (Native BrEng speaker)
Use Reply-To header for email. This email address will be
valid for at least 2 weeks from 2014/5/29 15:19:37
>[snip, ...]
> I have a friend who lives in Hassocks.
"Hassocks is a large village and civil parish in the Mid
Sussex district of West Sussex, England. Its name is
believed to derive from the tufts of grass found in the
surrounding fields." (wikipedia entry. I suspect that this
is quite accurate, given that I know who works on these
local geography articles.)
--
David D S: UK and PR China. (Native BrEng speaker)
Use Reply-To header for email. This email address will be
Guy Barry
May 29, 2014, 4:29:17 AM5/29/14
to
"CDB" wrote in message news:lm5ifj$r33$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
Very common indeed; in fact I'd say it was the commonest way of forming
compound nouns in French. E.g. from "essuyer" (to wipe) you can form:
essuie-main - hand towel
essuie-pieds - doormat
essuie-glace - windscreen wiper (or AmE windshield wiper)
essuie-verres - teacloth
essuie-meubles - duster
essuie-tout - kitchen roll
(I didn't know several of those - I rather like the last in particular.)
--
Guy Barry
compound nouns in French. E.g. from "essuyer" (to wipe) you can form:
essuie-main - hand towel
essuie-pieds - doormat
essuie-glace - windscreen wiper (or AmE windshield wiper)
essuie-verres - teacloth
essuie-meubles - duster
essuie-tout - kitchen roll
(I didn't know several of those - I rather like the last in particular.)
--
Guy Barry
James Hogg
May 29, 2014, 4:42:04 AM5/29/14
to
that the plural is "�crase-merdes".
--
James
Stan Brown
May 29, 2014, 4:54:20 AM5/29/14
to
On Wed, 28 May 2014 12:20:39 +0100, Guy Barry wrote:
>
> What do you call those little cushions that people kneel on in church? I've
> always called them "hassocks", but I was talking to someone yesterday who
> referred to them as "kneelers". When I pointed out that I had a different
> name for them he said he knew they were properly called hassocks, but most
> ordinary people in the congregation called them kneelers, and so he tended
> to use the term that was more widely known. I hadn't heard "kneeler" before
> but it certainly requires less explanation.
I've never heard them called anything but kneelers.
>
> What do you call those little cushions that people kneel on in church? I've
> always called them "hassocks", but I was talking to someone yesterday who
> referred to them as "kneelers". When I pointed out that I had a different
> name for them he said he knew they were properly called hassocks, but most
> ordinary people in the congregation called them kneelers, and so he tended
> to use the term that was more widely known. I hadn't heard "kneeler" before
> but it certainly requires less explanation.
"Hassock" is a synonym for "ottoman", or it was when I was a lad.
AHD4 says "1. A thick cushion used as a footstool or for kneeling",
covering both possibilities.
It also says "2. A dense clump of grass" -- which I thought was a
tussock.
--
"The difference between the /almost right/ word and the /right/ word
is ... the difference between the lightning-bug and the lightning."
--Mark Twain
Stan Brown, Tompkins County, NY, USA http://OakRoadSystems.com
Guy Barry
May 29, 2014, 5:00:32 AM5/29/14
to
"Paul Wolff" wrote in message news:5DLjK0k+...@wolff.co.uk...
>I have a friend who lives in Hassocks.
Some people live in Fishponds.
--
Guy Barry
>I have a friend who lives in Hassocks.
--
Guy Barry
Paul Wolff
May 29, 2014, 5:14:54 AM5/29/14
to
On Thu, 29 May 2014, Guy Barry <guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> posted:
--
Paul
>"Paul Wolff" wrote in message news:5DLjK0k+...@wolff.co.uk...
>>I have a friend who lives in Hassocks.
>
>Some people live in Fishponds.
>
<sings> "There's a plaice for us..."
>>I have a friend who lives in Hassocks.
>
>Some people live in Fishponds.
>
--
Paul
Paul Wolff
May 29, 2014, 5:18:02 AM5/29/14
to
On Thu, 29 May 2014, David D S <inv...@m-invalid.invalid> posted:
there are two English words of similar structure and identical meanings,
but no obvious common source.
--
Paul
>Paul Wolff wrote:
>
>>[snip, ...]
>> I have a friend who lives in Hassocks.
>
>"Hassocks is a large village and civil parish in the Mid
>Sussex district of West Sussex, England. Its name is
>believed to derive from the tufts of grass found in the
>surrounding fields." (wikipedia entry. I suspect that this
>is quite accurate, given that I know who works on these
>local geography articles.)
>
Odd. I call those tussocks (as I now see Stan Brown does too). It seems
>
>>[snip, ...]
>> I have a friend who lives in Hassocks.
>
>"Hassocks is a large village and civil parish in the Mid
>Sussex district of West Sussex, England. Its name is
>believed to derive from the tufts of grass found in the
>surrounding fields." (wikipedia entry. I suspect that this
>is quite accurate, given that I know who works on these
>local geography articles.)
>
there are two English words of similar structure and identical meanings,
but no obvious common source.
--
Paul
Leslie Danks
May 29, 2014, 5:45:37 AM5/29/14
to
Steve Hayes
May 29, 2014, 5:49:06 AM5/29/14
to
On Wed, 28 May 2014 12:20:39 +0100, "Guy Barry" <guy....@blueyonder.co.uk>
regional pattern, such as one might detect for gorse, furze and whins.
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
wrote:
>What do you call those little cushions that people kneel on in church? I've
>always called them "hassocks", but I was talking to someone yesterday who
>referred to them as "kneelers". When I pointed out that I had a different
>name for them he said he knew they were properly called hassocks, but most
>ordinary people in the congregation called them kneelers, and so he tended
>to use the term that was more widely known. I hadn't heard "kneeler" before
>but it certainly requires less explanation.
I've heard them called both. They are synonyms. I don't think there's even a
>What do you call those little cushions that people kneel on in church? I've
>always called them "hassocks", but I was talking to someone yesterday who
>referred to them as "kneelers". When I pointed out that I had a different
>name for them he said he knew they were properly called hassocks, but most
>ordinary people in the congregation called them kneelers, and so he tended
>to use the term that was more widely known. I hadn't heard "kneeler" before
>but it certainly requires less explanation.
regional pattern, such as one might detect for gorse, furze and whins.
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
David D S
May 29, 2014, 5:46:57 AM5/29/14
to
swallowed, One was saying to the other: "What';s a plaice like you
doing in a person like this?"
--
David D S: UK and PR China. (Native BrEng speaker)
Use Reply-To header for email. This email address will be
Guy Barry
May 29, 2014, 5:48:36 AM5/29/14
to
"Robert Bannister" wrote in message
news:bunf44...@mid.individual.net...
I've normally seen it spelt "pouffe", although the homophone has probably
largely driven the word out of use.
--
Guy Barry
news:bunf44...@mid.individual.net...
largely driven the word out of use.
--
Guy Barry
James Hogg
May 29, 2014, 6:22:31 AM5/29/14
to
--
James
Leslie Danks
May 29, 2014, 6:32:30 AM5/29/14
to
James Hogg
May 29, 2014, 6:36:48 AM5/29/14
to
Leslie Danks wrote:
> Guy Barry wrote:
>
>> "Robert Bannister" wrote in message
>> news:bunf44...@mid.individual.net...
>>> On 29/05/2014 1:29 am, Tony Cooper wrote:
>>>> A foot stool has legs and usually an upholstered or padded top. A
>>>> hassock has no legs.
>>>> http://www.donghiadigest.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/hassock-round-square-and-hexagon1.jpg
>>>>
>>> I think we would call all of those "poufs" in BrE.
>> I've normally seen it spelt "pouffe", although the homophone has
>> probably largely driven the word out of use.
>
> Queer telecommunications rules!
It's homophobes versus homophones.
> Guy Barry wrote:
>
>> "Robert Bannister" wrote in message
>> news:bunf44...@mid.individual.net...
>>> On 29/05/2014 1:29 am, Tony Cooper wrote:
>>>> A foot stool has legs and usually an upholstered or padded top. A
>>>> hassock has no legs.
>>>> http://www.donghiadigest.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/hassock-round-square-and-hexagon1.jpg
>>>>
>>> I think we would call all of those "poufs" in BrE.
>> I've normally seen it spelt "pouffe", although the homophone has
>> probably largely driven the word out of use.
>
> Queer telecommunications rules!
--
James
CDB
May 29, 2014, 6:59:38 AM5/29/14
to
On 29/05/2014 4:42 AM, James Hogg wrote:
> Guy Barry wrote:
> Guy Barry wrote:
>> "CDB" wrote:
>>> Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>>>> What's the part of speech of "prie" in the French?
>>> It's a verb, but I'm not sure which part of it. There are a few
>>> similar verb-object compounds in English, like "spoilsport", but
>>> it's much commoner in French.
>> Very common indeed; in fact I'd say it was the commonest way of
>> forming compound nouns in French. E.g. from "essuyer" (to wipe)
>> you can form:
>> essuie-main - hand towel essuie-pieds - doormat essuie-glace -
>> windscreen wiper (or AmE windshield wiper) essuie-verres -
>> teacloth essuie-meubles - duster essuie-tout - kitchen roll
>> (I didn't know several of those - I rather like the last in
>> particular.)
> Then there's the word for a shoe: "�crase-merde". Wiktionary assures
> me that the plural is "�crase-merdes".
Atilf points out that it's a "chaussure de ville" and adds that it's
>>> Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>>>> What's the part of speech of "prie" in the French?
>>> It's a verb, but I'm not sure which part of it. There are a few
>>> similar verb-object compounds in English, like "spoilsport", but
>>> it's much commoner in French.
>> Very common indeed; in fact I'd say it was the commonest way of
>> forming compound nouns in French. E.g. from "essuyer" (to wipe)
>> you can form:
>> essuie-main - hand towel essuie-pieds - doormat essuie-glace -
>> windscreen wiper (or AmE windshield wiper) essuie-verres -
>> teacloth essuie-meubles - duster essuie-tout - kitchen roll
>> (I didn't know several of those - I rather like the last in
>> particular.)
> Then there's the word for a shoe: "�crase-merde". Wiktionary assures
> me that the plural is "�crase-merdes".
"sans clous et � semelle plane". All very sensible. I understand that
Parisians love their dogs but seldom carry souvenirs of their passage.
charles
May 29, 2014, 7:44:38 AM5/29/14
to
In article <d2471a3a-41d4-4c73...@googlegroups.com>, Peter
T. Daniels <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
> hassocks (not that that word occurs much; it's another word for ottoman/
> footstool) to be called kneelers.
The Shorter OED suggests it's a word which has been in use since 1516.
--
From KT24
Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18
T. Daniels <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 28, 2014 7:20:39 AM UTC-4, Guy Barry wrote:
> > What do you call those little cushions that people kneel on in church?
> > I've always called them "hassocks", but I was talking to someone
> > yesterday who referred to them as "kneelers". When I pointed out that
> > I had a different name for them he said he knew they were properly
> > called hassocks, but most ordinary people in the congregation called
> > them kneelers, and so he tended to use the term that was more widely
> > known. I hadn't heard "kneeler" before but it certainly requires less
> > explanation.
> I've never known church kneelers to be called hassocks, nor have I known
> > What do you call those little cushions that people kneel on in church?
> > I've always called them "hassocks", but I was talking to someone
> > yesterday who referred to them as "kneelers". When I pointed out that
> > I had a different name for them he said he knew they were properly
> > called hassocks, but most ordinary people in the congregation called
> > them kneelers, and so he tended to use the term that was more widely
> > known. I hadn't heard "kneeler" before but it certainly requires less
> > explanation.
> hassocks (not that that word occurs much; it's another word for ottoman/
> footstool) to be called kneelers.
The Shorter OED suggests it's a word which has been in use since 1516.
--
From KT24
Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18
Peter T. Daniels
May 29, 2014, 7:53:46 AM5/29/14
to
On Thursday, May 29, 2014 4:29:17 AM UTC-4, Guy Barry wrote:
> "CDB" wrote in message news:lm5ifj$r33$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
> >On 28/05/2014 4:27 PM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> >> What's the part of speech of "prie" in the French?
> >It's a verb, but I'm not sure which part of it.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> "CDB" wrote in message news:lm5ifj$r33$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
> >On 28/05/2014 4:27 PM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> >> What's the part of speech of "prie" in the French?
> >It's a verb, but I'm not sure which part of it.
> >There are a few similar verb-object compounds in English,
> >like "spoilsport", but it's much commoner in French.
>
> Very common indeed; in fact I'd say it was the commonest way of forming
> compound nouns in French. E.g. from "essuyer" (to wipe) you can form:
> essuie-main - hand towel
> essuie-pieds - doormat
> essuie-glace - windscreen wiper (or AmE windshield wiper)
> essuie-verres - teacloth
> essuie-meubles - duster
> essuie-tout - kitchen roll
That doesn't help with the question of what verb-form it's felt to be.
> >like "spoilsport", but it's much commoner in French.
>
> Very common indeed; in fact I'd say it was the commonest way of forming
> compound nouns in French. E.g. from "essuyer" (to wipe) you can form:
> essuie-main - hand towel
> essuie-pieds - doormat
> essuie-glace - windscreen wiper (or AmE windshield wiper)
> essuie-verres - teacloth
> essuie-meubles - duster
> essuie-tout - kitchen roll
CDB
May 29, 2014, 9:15:16 AM5/29/14
to
On 29/05/2014 7:53 AM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> Guy Barry wrote:
> Guy Barry wrote:
>> "CDB" wrote:
>>> Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>>>> What's the part of speech of "prie" in the French?
>>> It's a verb, but I'm not sure which part of it.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>> There are a few similar verb-object compounds in English, like
>>> "spoilsport", but it's much commoner in French.
>> Very common indeed; in fact I'd say it was the commonest way of
>> forming compound nouns in French. E.g. from "essuyer" (to wipe)
>> you can form: essuie-main - hand towel essuie-pieds - doormat
>> essuie-glace - windscreen wiper (or AmE windshield wiper)
>> essuie-verres - teacloth essuie-meubles - duster essuie-tout -
>> kitchen roll
> That doesn't help with the question of what verb-form it's felt to
> be.
Atilf doesn't say, at least not in that article. In the article on
>>> Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>>>> What's the part of speech of "prie" in the French?
>>> It's a verb, but I'm not sure which part of it.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>> There are a few similar verb-object compounds in English, like
>>> "spoilsport", but it's much commoner in French.
>> Very common indeed; in fact I'd say it was the commonest way of
>> forming compound nouns in French. E.g. from "essuyer" (to wipe)
>> you can form: essuie-main - hand towel essuie-pieds - doormat
>> essuie-glace - windscreen wiper (or AmE windshield wiper)
>> essuie-verres - teacloth essuie-meubles - duster essuie-tout -
>> kitchen roll
> That doesn't help with the question of what verb-form it's felt to
> be.
"attrape-" it calls the form an "�l�ment pr�f." (I take the abbreviation
to stand for "pr�fixe", prefixed). I would guess that it's from the
third-person present indicative. On prie Dieu (transitive in French),
s'essuie les pieds, attrape des mouches.
Guy Barry
May 29, 2014, 10:06:26 AM5/29/14
to
"Peter T. Daniels" wrote in message
news:87f3b345-3b7b-443d...@googlegroups.com...
Presumably the third person singular of the present indicative. Are there
any examples from verbs not in "-er"?
--
Guy Barry
news:87f3b345-3b7b-443d...@googlegroups.com...
any examples from verbs not in "-er"?
--
Guy Barry
musika
May 29, 2014, 10:49:12 AM5/29/14
to
On 29/05/2014 10:45, Leslie Danks wrote:
> Paul Wolff wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 29 May 2014, Guy Barry <guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> posted:
>>> "Paul Wolff" wrote in message news:5DLjK0k+...@wolff.co.uk...
>>>> I have a friend who lives in Hassocks.
>>>
>>> Some people live in Fishponds.
>>>
>> <sings> "There's a plaice for us..."
>
> Now you're floundering.
>
"A little dab'll do you."
> Paul Wolff wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 29 May 2014, Guy Barry <guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> posted:
>>> "Paul Wolff" wrote in message news:5DLjK0k+...@wolff.co.uk...
>>>> I have a friend who lives in Hassocks.
>>>
>>> Some people live in Fishponds.
>>>
>> <sings> "There's a plaice for us..."
>
> Now you're floundering.
>
--
Ray
UK
James Hogg
May 29, 2014, 11:21:15 AM5/29/14
to
person singular form.
--
James
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
May 29, 2014, 11:25:39 AM5/29/14
to
the suffix "-ock". But it does end with:
A number of words in -ock seem to share a general sense of ‘rounded
protuberance’, ‘clump’, e.g. hassock n., hummock n., tummock n.,
and tussock n.
and then:
Forming diminutives.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Peter Moylan
May 28, 2014, 11:03:51 PM5/28/14
to
On 29/05/14 00:55, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Wed, 28 May 2014 12:20:39 +0100, "Guy Barry"
> On Wed, 28 May 2014 12:20:39 +0100, "Guy Barry"
> <guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> What do you call those little cushions that people kneel on in church? I've
>> always called them "hassocks", but I was talking to someone yesterday who
>> referred to them as "kneelers". When I pointed out that I had a different
>> name for them he said he knew they were properly called hassocks, but most
>> ordinary people in the congregation called them kneelers, and so he tended
>> to use the term that was more widely known. I hadn't heard "kneeler" before
>> but it certainly requires less explanation.
>
> In the church that I do not attend, they are "kneelers". They are
>
>> What do you call those little cushions that people kneel on in church? I've
>> always called them "hassocks", but I was talking to someone yesterday who
>> referred to them as "kneelers". When I pointed out that I had a different
>> name for them he said he knew they were properly called hassocks, but most
>> ordinary people in the congregation called them kneelers, and so he tended
>> to use the term that was more widely known. I hadn't heard "kneeler" before
>> but it certainly requires less explanation.
>
> wooden platforms that fold out for use. No "little cushions" are
> provided. If they were cushioned, I would call them "cushioned
> kneelers".
>
> If they were cushions that could be placed on the floor, I might call
> them "hassocks".
>
Wooden kneelers used to be standard in Catholic churches, and for all I
know they might still be. They're uncomfortable, as is appropriate for
people who believe in doing penance for their sins.
Embroidered cushions seem to be more popular in Anglican churches. I
wouldn't call them kneelers, but perhaps some people do.
Our local Anglican cathedral seems to cater mostly for very old people,
so I suppose their knees require gentler treatment.
--
Peter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org
For an e-mail address, see my web page.
Skitt
May 29, 2014, 7:25:16 PM5/29/14
to
On 5/28/2014 10:29 AM, Tony Cooper wrote:
> used to mean a piece of furniture is quite normal to me. However, I
> don't think of a hassock as a foot stool.
http://www.google.com/search?safe=off&hl=en&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1275&bih=710&q=hassock&oq=hassock&gs_l=img.3..0l10.2065.3837.0.4218.7.6.0.1.1.0.110.626.0j6.6.0....0...1ac.1.45.img..0.7.628.LOsb9qXy8AI
or http://tinyurl.com/ldyknoc
have legs.
--
Skitt (SF Bay Area)
http://home.comcast.net/~skitt99/main.html
> On Wed, 28 May 2014 17:40:32 +0100, "Guy Barry" wrote:
>> Hmm, PTD made a similar comment. I only know a hassock as something you
>> kneel on, but Merriam-Webster gives both definitions:
>>
>> "a cushion that you kneel on while praying"
>>
>> "a cushion or soft stool that is used as a seat or for resting your feet"
>>
>> Hmm, PTD made a similar comment. I only know a hassock as something you
>> kneel on, but Merriam-Webster gives both definitions:
>>
>> "a cushion that you kneel on while praying"
>>
>> "a cushion or soft stool that is used as a seat or for resting your feet"
>>
>> Is the second an exclusively American usage?
>
> I have no idea if it used outside of the US, but the word "hassock"
>
> used to mean a piece of furniture is quite normal to me. However, I
> don't think of a hassock as a foot stool.
>
> A foot stool has legs and usually an upholstered or padded top. A
> hassock has no legs.
> http://www.donghiadigest.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/hassock-round-square-and-hexagon1.jpg
>
Many of those at
> A foot stool has legs and usually an upholstered or padded top. A
> hassock has no legs.
> http://www.donghiadigest.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/hassock-round-square-and-hexagon1.jpg
>
http://www.google.com/search?safe=off&hl=en&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1275&bih=710&q=hassock&oq=hassock&gs_l=img.3..0l10.2065.3837.0.4218.7.6.0.1.1.0.110.626.0j6.6.0....0...1ac.1.45.img..0.7.628.LOsb9qXy8AI
or http://tinyurl.com/ldyknoc
have legs.
--
Skitt (SF Bay Area)
http://home.comcast.net/~skitt99/main.html
Robert Bannister
May 29, 2014, 8:01:55 PM5/29/14
to
It's not a word I often write and I was tempted by "poof".
--
Robert Bannister - 1940-71 SE England
1972-now W Australia
Robert Bannister
May 29, 2014, 8:02:50 PM5/29/14
to
Robert Bannister
May 29, 2014, 8:05:30 PM5/29/14
to
nobody could decide whether it was a footstool or a tuft, although it
took a great many more words to say so.
Tony Cooper
May 29, 2014, 8:35:44 PM5/29/14
to
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando FL
Peter Moylan
May 30, 2014, 1:22:48 AM5/30/14
to
On 29/05/14 19:46, David D S wrote:
> Paul Wolff wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 29 May 2014, Guy Barry <guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> posted:
>>> "Paul Wolff" wrote in message news:5DLjK0k+...@wolff.co.uk...
>>>> I have a friend who lives in Hassocks.
>>>
>>> Some people live in Fishponds.
>>>
>> <sings> "There's a plaice for us..."
>
> I remember a cartoon in which two fish were talking after having been
> swallowed, One was saying to the other: "What';s a plaice like you
> doing in a person like this?"
>
A former girlfriend of mine developed some serious knee problems,
> Paul Wolff wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 29 May 2014, Guy Barry <guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> posted:
>>> "Paul Wolff" wrote in message news:5DLjK0k+...@wolff.co.uk...
>>>> I have a friend who lives in Hassocks.
>>>
>>> Some people live in Fishponds.
>>>
>> <sings> "There's a plaice for us..."
>
> I remember a cartoon in which two fish were talking after having been
> swallowed, One was saying to the other: "What';s a plaice like you
> doing in a person like this?"
>
prompting the question "What's a joint like that doing in a nice girl
like you?"
Peter Moylan
May 30, 2014, 1:26:43 AM5/30/14
to
it's the stem of the verb, so in a sense it's not any inflected form of
the verb.
Peter Moylan
May 30, 2014, 1:27:27 AM5/30/14
to
On 29/05/14 18:54, Stan Brown wrote:
>
> "Hassock" is a synonym for "ottoman", or it was when I was a lad.
>
> AHD4 says "1. A thick cushion used as a footstool or for kneeling",
> covering both possibilities.
>
> It also says "2. A dense clump of grass" -- which I thought was a
> tussock.
>
Do they call them tussocks in Sussocks?
> On Wed, 28 May 2014 12:20:39 +0100, Guy Barry wrote:
>>
>> What do you call those little cushions that people kneel on in church? I've
>> always called them "hassocks", but I was talking to someone yesterday who
>> referred to them as "kneelers". When I pointed out that I had a different
>> name for them he said he knew they were properly called hassocks, but most
>> ordinary people in the congregation called them kneelers, and so he tended
>> to use the term that was more widely known. I hadn't heard "kneeler" before
>> but it certainly requires less explanation.
>
> I've never heard them called anything but kneelers.
>>
>> What do you call those little cushions that people kneel on in church? I've
>> always called them "hassocks", but I was talking to someone yesterday who
>> referred to them as "kneelers". When I pointed out that I had a different
>> name for them he said he knew they were properly called hassocks, but most
>> ordinary people in the congregation called them kneelers, and so he tended
>> to use the term that was more widely known. I hadn't heard "kneeler" before
>> but it certainly requires less explanation.
>
>
> "Hassock" is a synonym for "ottoman", or it was when I was a lad.
>
> AHD4 says "1. A thick cushion used as a footstool or for kneeling",
> covering both possibilities.
>
> It also says "2. A dense clump of grass" -- which I thought was a
> tussock.
>
Do they call them tussocks in Sussocks?
Paul Wolff
May 30, 2014, 3:19:45 AM5/30/14
to
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
May 30, 2014, 6:16:34 AM5/30/14
to
On Fri, 30 May 2014 08:19:45 +0100, Paul Wolff
A few examples appear in Old English, as bealluc bollock n. and
adj., bulluc bullock n. (although in these two the apparent root
word is not attested in Old English).
"bullock" was originally "a young bull, or bull calf".
<boun...@two.wolff.co.uk> wrote:
>On Thu, 29 May 2014, "Peter Duncanson [BrE]" <ma...@peterduncanson.net>
>posted:
>>On Thu, 29 May 2014 10:18:02 +0100, Paul Wolff
>><boun...@two.wolff.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 29 May 2014, David D S <inv...@m-invalid.invalid> posted:
>>>>Paul Wolff wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>[snip, ...]
>>>>> I have a friend who lives in Hassocks.
>>>>
>>>>"Hassocks is a large village and civil parish in the Mid
>>>>Sussex district of West Sussex, England. Its name is
>>>>believed to derive from the tufts of grass found in the
>>>>surrounding fields." (wikipedia entry. I suspect that this
>>>>is quite accurate, given that I know who works on these
>>>>local geography articles.)
>>>>
>>>Odd. I call those tussocks (as I now see Stan Brown does too). It seems
>>>there are two English words of similar structure and identical meanings,
>>>but no obvious common source.
>>
>>The OED is cautious, at some length, about the etymology and usage of
>>the suffix "-ock". But it does end with:
>>
>> A number of words in -ock seem to share a general sense of ‘rounded
>> protuberance’, ‘clump’, e.g. hassock n., hummock n., tummock n.,
>> and tussock n.
>>
>Bollocks.
Early that etymological note says:
>On Thu, 29 May 2014, "Peter Duncanson [BrE]" <ma...@peterduncanson.net>
>posted:
>>On Thu, 29 May 2014 10:18:02 +0100, Paul Wolff
>><boun...@two.wolff.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 29 May 2014, David D S <inv...@m-invalid.invalid> posted:
>>>>Paul Wolff wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>[snip, ...]
>>>>> I have a friend who lives in Hassocks.
>>>>
>>>>"Hassocks is a large village and civil parish in the Mid
>>>>Sussex district of West Sussex, England. Its name is
>>>>believed to derive from the tufts of grass found in the
>>>>surrounding fields." (wikipedia entry. I suspect that this
>>>>is quite accurate, given that I know who works on these
>>>>local geography articles.)
>>>>
>>>Odd. I call those tussocks (as I now see Stan Brown does too). It seems
>>>there are two English words of similar structure and identical meanings,
>>>but no obvious common source.
>>
>>The OED is cautious, at some length, about the etymology and usage of
>>the suffix "-ock". But it does end with:
>>
>> A number of words in -ock seem to share a general sense of ‘rounded
>> protuberance’, ‘clump’, e.g. hassock n., hummock n., tummock n.,
>> and tussock n.
>>
>Bollocks.
A few examples appear in Old English, as bealluc bollock n. and
adj., bulluc bullock n. (although in these two the apparent root
word is not attested in Old English).
"bullock" was originally "a young bull, or bull calf".
CDB
May 30, 2014, 9:16:04 AM5/30/14
to
On 30/05/2014 1:26 AM, Peter Moylan wrote:
> CDB wrote:
[verb-form in "prie-dieu"]
>> Atilf doesn't say, at least not in that article. In the article
>> on "attrape-" it calls the form an "�l�ment pr�f." (I take the
>> abbreviation to stand for "pr�fixe", prefixed). I would guess that
>> it's from the third-person present indicative. On prie Dieu
>> (transitive in French), s'essuie les pieds, attrape des mouches.
> Although that certainly gives the correct form, I prefer to think
> that it's the stem of the verb, so in a sense it's not any inflected
> form of the verb.
Just as good; maybe truer.
> CDB wrote:
[verb-form in "prie-dieu"]
>> Atilf doesn't say, at least not in that article. In the article
>> on "attrape-" it calls the form an "�l�ment pr�f." (I take the
>> abbreviation to stand for "pr�fixe", prefixed). I would guess that
>> it's from the third-person present indicative. On prie Dieu
>> (transitive in French), s'essuie les pieds, attrape des mouches.
> Although that certainly gives the correct form, I prefer to think
> that it's the stem of the verb, so in a sense it's not any inflected
> form of the verb.
Mike L
May 30, 2014, 5:45:55 PM5/30/14
to
On Wed, 28 May 2014 22:48:46 +0100, Paul Wolff
<boun...@two.wolff.co.uk> wrote:
>On Wed, 28 May 2014, Katy Jennison <ka...@spamtrap.kjennison.com> posted:
>>On 28/05/2014 12:43, Guy Barry wrote:
>>> "LFS" wrote in message news:bum02r...@mid.individual.net...
>>>> was a difference between hassocks and kneelers. The first Google hit I
>>>> found for "embroidered hassocks" seems to confirm this, although the
>>>> difference is unclear:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>http://www.achurchnearyou.com/islip-st-nicholas/about-the-embroidered-
>>>>hassocks-and-cushions.html
>>>>
>>>
>>> "12 hassocks for the pews and a long kneeler for the Communion Rail were
>>> given and worked by Mrs Hathway Jones." That suggests that hassocks are
>>> cushions for individuals to kneel on, whereas kneelers are cushions for
>>> several people to kneel on. It would certainly make sense.
>>>
>>
>>In MyE a hassock is a rectangular thing, box-shaped, at least six
>>inches thick, and it lives in pews or, in modernised churches, between
>>the rows of chairs, whereas the kneeler at an altar rail is much longer
>>and quite a lot thinner.
>>
>Katy expresses my view too. I'll add that in my experience hassocks tend
>to have been embroidered with saintly motifs by church supporters.
Coventry Friends' Meeting House has three or four of them, all very
plain honest grey; but they were bought for the benefit of a couple of
attenders whose feet didn't reach the floor from a chair. If anybody
were to kneel in a Quaker meeting, I imagine somebody would call an
ambulance.
Whether anybody wishes to know it or not, I shall now reveal the
difference between a French prie-dieu and an English one. I am told
that the kneely bit on a Fench one slopes comfortably, while that on
an English one is ruthlessly horizontal.
>
>In some churches, kneeling for prayer seems to have gone out of fashion,
>and with dwindling congregations the hassocks are placed on the pews
>where bottoms would have rested in former years. It's a toss-up whether
>standing, or tilting forward on the pew edge,
(An asana known, I believe, as the "Prot squat".)
>is considered the more
>appropriate reverential pose at key moments in the service. But when the
>church is crowded to standing-room only, hassocks come into their own as
>emergency seating on the altar steps.
--
Mike.
<boun...@two.wolff.co.uk> wrote:
>On Wed, 28 May 2014, Katy Jennison <ka...@spamtrap.kjennison.com> posted:
>>On 28/05/2014 12:43, Guy Barry wrote:
>>> "LFS" wrote in message news:bum02r...@mid.individual.net...
>>>>
>>>> On 28/05/2014 12:20, Guy Barry wrote:
>>>>> What do you call those little cushions that people kneel on in church?
>>>>> I've always called them "hassocks", but I was talking to someone
>>>>> yesterday who referred to them as "kneelers". When I pointed out that I
>>>>> had a different name for them he said he knew they were properly called
>>>>> hassocks, but most ordinary people in the congregation called them
>>>>> kneelers, and so he tended to use the term that was more widely known.
>>>>> I hadn't heard "kneeler" before but it certainly requires less
>>>>> explanation.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Remembering when I used to do a lot of needlepoint, I thought there
>>>> On 28/05/2014 12:20, Guy Barry wrote:
>>>>> What do you call those little cushions that people kneel on in church?
>>>>> I've always called them "hassocks", but I was talking to someone
>>>>> yesterday who referred to them as "kneelers". When I pointed out that I
>>>>> had a different name for them he said he knew they were properly called
>>>>> hassocks, but most ordinary people in the congregation called them
>>>>> kneelers, and so he tended to use the term that was more widely known.
>>>>> I hadn't heard "kneeler" before but it certainly requires less
>>>>> explanation.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> was a difference between hassocks and kneelers. The first Google hit I
>>>> found for "embroidered hassocks" seems to confirm this, although the
>>>> difference is unclear:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>http://www.achurchnearyou.com/islip-st-nicholas/about-the-embroidered-
>>>>hassocks-and-cushions.html
>>>>
>>>
>>> "12 hassocks for the pews and a long kneeler for the Communion Rail were
>>> given and worked by Mrs Hathway Jones." That suggests that hassocks are
>>> cushions for individuals to kneel on, whereas kneelers are cushions for
>>> several people to kneel on. It would certainly make sense.
>>>
>>
>>In MyE a hassock is a rectangular thing, box-shaped, at least six
>>inches thick, and it lives in pews or, in modernised churches, between
>>the rows of chairs, whereas the kneeler at an altar rail is much longer
>>and quite a lot thinner.
>>
>Katy expresses my view too. I'll add that in my experience hassocks tend
>to have been embroidered with saintly motifs by church supporters.
Coventry Friends' Meeting House has three or four of them, all very
plain honest grey; but they were bought for the benefit of a couple of
attenders whose feet didn't reach the floor from a chair. If anybody
were to kneel in a Quaker meeting, I imagine somebody would call an
ambulance.
Whether anybody wishes to know it or not, I shall now reveal the
difference between a French prie-dieu and an English one. I am told
that the kneely bit on a Fench one slopes comfortably, while that on
an English one is ruthlessly horizontal.
>
>In some churches, kneeling for prayer seems to have gone out of fashion,
>and with dwindling congregations the hassocks are placed on the pews
>where bottoms would have rested in former years. It's a toss-up whether
>standing, or tilting forward on the pew edge,
(An asana known, I believe, as the "Prot squat".)
>is considered the more
>appropriate reverential pose at key moments in the service. But when the
>church is crowded to standing-room only, hassocks come into their own as
>emergency seating on the altar steps.
>
>I have a friend who lives in Hassocks.
As, once, did I. But she died.
>I have a friend who lives in Hassocks.
--
Mike.
Mike L
May 30, 2014, 5:50:29 PM5/30/14
to
On Wed, 28 May 2014 15:41:58 -0400, CDB <belle...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On 28/05/2014 12:31 PM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>> Tony Cooper wrote:
>
>>> I have only noticed the fold-out kind. If they do not fold out for
>>> use, and fold back in when not used, they would be an obstruction.
>>> There's usually not much space between the seat the back of the pew
>>> in front of that seat.
>
>> The ones in pries-dieux don't fold down or up.
Quite Olympian. I wonder if Zeus and the gang sponsor a Grand Pries.
>
>Shades of horse doovers! I looked this one up to be sure: atilf agrees
>that the compound is invariable in French: "des prie-dieu". I suppose
>English might get away with "prie-dieus", but it looks funny.
>
--
Mike.
>On 28/05/2014 12:31 PM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>> Tony Cooper wrote:
>
>>> I have only noticed the fold-out kind. If they do not fold out for
>>> use, and fold back in when not used, they would be an obstruction.
>>> There's usually not much space between the seat the back of the pew
>>> in front of that seat.
>
>> The ones in pries-dieux don't fold down or up.
Quite Olympian. I wonder if Zeus and the gang sponsor a Grand Pries.
>
>Shades of horse doovers! I looked this one up to be sure: atilf agrees
>that the compound is invariable in French: "des prie-dieu". I suppose
>English might get away with "prie-dieus", but it looks funny.
>
--
Mike.
Mike L
May 30, 2014, 5:54:58 PM5/30/14
to
appositively, just as the English equivalent seems to be.
--
Mike.
Robert Bannister
May 30, 2014, 8:34:21 PM5/30/14
to
Peter Moylan
May 31, 2014, 4:19:51 AM5/31/14
to
On 31/05/14 10:34, Robert Bannister wrote:
> On 31/05/2014 5:54 am, Mike L wrote:
>> On Fri, 30 May 2014 09:16:04 -0400, CDB <belle...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 30/05/2014 1:26 AM, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>>> CDB wrote:
>>>
>>> [verb-form in "prie-dieu"]
>>>
>>>>> Atilf doesn't say, at least not in that article. In the article
>>>>> on "attrape-" it calls the form an "锟絣锟絤ent pr锟絝." (I take the
> On 31/05/2014 5:54 am, Mike L wrote:
>> On Fri, 30 May 2014 09:16:04 -0400, CDB <belle...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 30/05/2014 1:26 AM, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>>> CDB wrote:
>>>
>>> [verb-form in "prie-dieu"]
>>>
>>>>> Atilf doesn't say, at least not in that article. In the article
>>>>> abbreviation to stand for "pr锟絝ixe", prefixed). I would guess that
>>>>> it's from the third-person present indicative. On prie Dieu
>>>>> (transitive in French), s'essuie les pieds, attrape des mouches.
>>>
>>>> Although that certainly gives the correct form, I prefer to think
>>>> that it's the stem of the verb, so in a sense it's not any inflected
>>>> form of the verb.
>>>
>>> Just as good; maybe truer.
>>>
>> That's my feeling about it, too: an uninflected infinitive used
>> appositively, just as the English equivalent seems to be.
>
> But the French form is not an infinitive.
No, but it's like an infinitive with the infinitive ending snipped off.
>>>>> (transitive in French), s'essuie les pieds, attrape des mouches.
>>>
>>>> Although that certainly gives the correct form, I prefer to think
>>>> that it's the stem of the verb, so in a sense it's not any inflected
>>>> form of the verb.
>>>
>>> Just as good; maybe truer.
>>>
>> That's my feeling about it, too: an uninflected infinitive used
>> appositively, just as the English equivalent seems to be.
>
> But the French form is not an infinitive.
In English we don't have any "infinitive ending", so the infinitive and
the stem of a verb are the same thing. That's not true in the Romance
languages, where the infinitive can be thought of as one more inflected
form of the verb, with its own characteristic suffix.
Guy Barry
May 31, 2014, 4:46:34 AM5/31/14
to
"Peter Moylan" wrote in message news:538990a9$1...@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
As I said in an earlier post, is there any way of resolving this by looking
at verbs whose infinitive doesn't end in "-er"? James mentioned
"ouvre-lettres", but unfortunately that doesn't distinguish because "ouvrir"
has the irregular form "ouvre" in the present tense.
--
Guy Barry
at verbs whose infinitive doesn't end in "-er"? James mentioned
"ouvre-lettres", but unfortunately that doesn't distinguish because "ouvrir"
has the irregular form "ouvre" in the present tense.
--
Guy Barry
CDB
May 31, 2014, 8:40:21 AM5/31/14
to
On 31/05/2014 4:46 AM, Guy Barry wrote:
> "Peter Moylan" wrote:
>> Robert Bannister wrote:
[prie-dieu: personal or infinite?]
>>> But the French form is not an infinitive.
>> No, but it's like an infinitive with the infinitive ending snipped
>> off.
>> In English we don't have any "infinitive ending", so the infinitive
>> and the stem of a verb are the same thing. That's not true in the
>> Romance languages, where the infinitive can be thought of as one
>> more inflected form of the verb, with its own characteristic
>> suffix.
> As I said in an earlier post, is there any way of resolving this by
> looking at verbs whose infinitive doesn't end in "-er"? James
> mentioned "ouvre-lettres", but unfortunately that doesn't distinguish
> because "ouvrir" has the irregular form "ouvre" in the present
> tense.
James also mentioned "l�ve-glace", which takes more explaining. I was
thinking that a truncated form might have undergone the same
vowel-change as the 3ps, which once was "levet", according to atilf,
with stress on the first syllable (I think there must have been a stress
accent at that point, or why did everything following the Latin stressed
syllable tend to drop away?)
And then atilf mentioned the "lever-Dieu", the moment of
transubstantiation, and it all flew apart.
> "Peter Moylan" wrote:
>> Robert Bannister wrote:
[prie-dieu: personal or infinite?]
>>> But the French form is not an infinitive.
>> No, but it's like an infinitive with the infinitive ending snipped
>> off.
>> In English we don't have any "infinitive ending", so the infinitive
>> and the stem of a verb are the same thing. That's not true in the
>> Romance languages, where the infinitive can be thought of as one
>> more inflected form of the verb, with its own characteristic
>> suffix.
> As I said in an earlier post, is there any way of resolving this by
> looking at verbs whose infinitive doesn't end in "-er"? James
> mentioned "ouvre-lettres", but unfortunately that doesn't distinguish
> because "ouvrir" has the irregular form "ouvre" in the present
> tense.
thinking that a truncated form might have undergone the same
vowel-change as the 3ps, which once was "levet", according to atilf,
with stress on the first syllable (I think there must have been a stress
accent at that point, or why did everything following the Latin stressed
syllable tend to drop away?)
And then atilf mentioned the "lever-Dieu", the moment of
transubstantiation, and it all flew apart.
Robert Bannister
May 31, 2014, 10:47:22 PM5/31/14
to
French, was "ouvr-", "pri-", "essui-/essuy-". My query as to whether
such a thing even exists in French is the existence of verbs like
"craindre" or "seoir" and a number of others.
Robert Bannister
May 31, 2014, 11:12:43 PM5/31/14
to
"prend-" or even "crain-", but if there is, I can't track it down.
Robert Bannister
May 31, 2014, 11:16:02 PM5/31/14
to
On 31/05/2014 8:40 pm, CDB wrote:
> James also mentioned "l�ve-glace", which takes more explaining. I was
> thinking that a truncated form might have undergone the same
> vowel-change as the 3ps, which once was "levet", according to atilf,
> with stress on the first syllable (I think there must have been a stress
> accent at that point, or why did everything following the Latin stressed
> syllable tend to drop away?)
>
> And then atilf mentioned the "lever-Dieu", the moment of
> transubstantiation, and it all flew apart.
>
>
I'm not sure I understand you. Surely you're not taking the grave accent
> James also mentioned "l�ve-glace", which takes more explaining. I was
> thinking that a truncated form might have undergone the same
> vowel-change as the 3ps, which once was "levet", according to atilf,
> with stress on the first syllable (I think there must have been a stress
> accent at that point, or why did everything following the Latin stressed
> syllable tend to drop away?)
>
> And then atilf mentioned the "lever-Dieu", the moment of
> transubstantiation, and it all flew apart.
>
>
to indicate stress.
James Hogg
Jun 1, 2014, 3:24:57 AM6/1/14
to
--
James
Isabelle Cecchini
Jun 1, 2014, 4:11:33 AM6/1/14
to
Le 01/06/2014 09:24, James Hogg a �crit :
vaurien
va-t-en-guerre
boit-sans-soif
--
Isabelle Cecchini
va-t-en-guerre
boit-sans-soif
--
Isabelle Cecchini
Guy Barry
Jun 1, 2014, 5:39:36 AM6/1/14
to
"Isabelle Cecchini" wrote in message news:lmen7d$rct$1...@dont-email.me...
All those examples appear to be based on the 3rd sing. pres., or at least a
phonetic equivalent ("fait", "vaut", "va", "boit"). I presume the "t" in
the third is inserted for euphony in the same way as in the question
"va-t-il?"
--
Guy Barry
phonetic equivalent ("fait", "vaut", "va", "boit"). I presume the "t" in
the third is inserted for euphony in the same way as in the question
"va-t-il?"
--
Guy Barry
James Hogg
Jun 1, 2014, 6:22:29 AM6/1/14
to
that is still preserved before a following vowel, just like the "n" of
the English indefinite article.
--
James
Robert Bannister
Jun 1, 2014, 8:55:10 PM6/1/14
to
Robert Bannister
Jun 1, 2014, 8:57:58 PM6/1/14
to
have lost the T, which isn't pronounced in normal speech anyway.
Dr Nick
Jun 2, 2014, 2:54:40 AM6/2/14
to
Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> writes:
> In message <9Ejhv.132066$jf3.1...@fx31.am4>
> kneelers on the dais that the 'staff' used to take communion from during
> the service, though I think most people considered that an affectation
> of the particular priest.
>
> I suspect that's accurate because I've never heard hassock used
> otherwise outside of a BrE novel or TV show. Also, the priest in
> question had many peculiar anglophile affectations. Well, I presume he
> still does as he's not quite dead.
They were "kneelers" in the relatively "low church" (it had chairs, not
pews) CoE church I was brought up in. Blue leather (or
leather-substitute) hanging on hooks screwed into the back of the seat
of the chair in front.
> In message <9Ejhv.132066$jf3.1...@fx31.am4>
> Guy Barry <guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>> What do you call those little cushions that people kneel on in church?
>
> Kneelers, here. Hassocks was reserved for the separate section of
>> What do you call those little cushions that people kneel on in church?
>
> kneelers on the dais that the 'staff' used to take communion from during
> the service, though I think most people considered that an affectation
> of the particular priest.
>
> I suspect that's accurate because I've never heard hassock used
> otherwise outside of a BrE novel or TV show. Also, the priest in
> question had many peculiar anglophile affectations. Well, I presume he
> still does as he's not quite dead.
They were "kneelers" in the relatively "low church" (it had chairs, not
pews) CoE church I was brought up in. Blue leather (or
leather-substitute) hanging on hooks screwed into the back of the seat
of the chair in front.
Peter Moylan
Jun 2, 2014, 6:03:00 AM6/2/14
to
On 31/05/14 22:40, CDB wrote:
> James also mentioned "l�ve-glace", which takes more explaining. I was
> thinking that a truncated form might have undergone the same
> vowel-change as the 3ps, which once was "levet", according to atilf,
> with stress on the first syllable (I think there must have been a stress
> accent at that point, or why did everything following the Latin stressed
> syllable tend to drop away?)
>
> And then atilf mentioned the "lever-Dieu", the moment of
> transubstantiation, and it all flew apart.
That's not part of the same pattern, though. A lever-Dieu is not a
> James also mentioned "l�ve-glace", which takes more explaining. I was
> thinking that a truncated form might have undergone the same
> vowel-change as the 3ps, which once was "levet", according to atilf,
> with stress on the first syllable (I think there must have been a stress
> accent at that point, or why did everything following the Latin stressed
> syllable tend to drop away?)
>
> And then atilf mentioned the "lever-Dieu", the moment of
> transubstantiation, and it all flew apart.
device for lifting God. That, if it existed, would be called a l�ve-Dieu.
CDB
Jun 2, 2014, 12:47:05 PM6/2/14
to
On 02/06/2014 6:03 AM, Peter Moylan wrote:
> CDB wrote:
>> James also mentioned "l�ve-glace", which takes more explaining. I
>> was thinking that a truncated form might have undergone the same
>> vowel-change as the 3ps, which once was "levet", according to
>> atilf, with stress on the first syllable (I think there must have
>> been a stress accent at that point, or why did everything following
>> the Latin stressed syllable tend to drop away?)
>> And then atilf mentioned the "lever-Dieu", the moment of
>> transubstantiation, and it all flew apart.
> That's not part of the same pattern, though. A lever-Dieu is not a
> device for lifting God. That, if it existed, would be called a
> l�ve-Dieu.
I agree it's slippery. You could say that prie-dieu is not a device,
> CDB wrote:
>> James also mentioned "l�ve-glace", which takes more explaining. I
>> was thinking that a truncated form might have undergone the same
>> vowel-change as the 3ps, which once was "levet", according to
>> atilf, with stress on the first syllable (I think there must have
>> been a stress accent at that point, or why did everything following
>> the Latin stressed syllable tend to drop away?)
>> And then atilf mentioned the "lever-Dieu", the moment of
>> transubstantiation, and it all flew apart.
> That's not part of the same pattern, though. A lever-Dieu is not a
> device for lifting God. That, if it existed, would be called a
> l�ve-Dieu.
but a location, more; and that the lever-Dieu is not a device but an
occasion.
Dr Nick
Jun 2, 2014, 5:30:24 PM6/2/14
to
Robert Bannister <rob...@clubtelco.com> writes:
> On 29/05/2014 5:48 pm, Guy Barry wrote:
>> "Robert Bannister" wrote in message
>> news:bunf44...@mid.individual.net...
>>>
>>> On 29/05/2014 1:29 am, Tony Cooper wrote:
>>
>>>> A foot stool has legs and usually an upholstered or padded top. A
>>>> hassock has no legs.
>>>> http://www.donghiadigest.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/hassock-round-square-and-hexagon1.jpg
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I think we would call all of those "poufs" in BrE.
>>
>> I've normally seen it spelt "pouffe", although the homophone has
>> probably largely driven the word out of use.
>>
> The dictionary I checked with gave both without specifying a
> preference. It's not a word I often write and I was tempted by "poof".
I've heard it - many years ago - as "poufay".
> On 29/05/2014 5:48 pm, Guy Barry wrote:
>> "Robert Bannister" wrote in message
>> news:bunf44...@mid.individual.net...
>>>
>>> On 29/05/2014 1:29 am, Tony Cooper wrote:
>>
>>>> A foot stool has legs and usually an upholstered or padded top. A
>>>> hassock has no legs.
>>>> http://www.donghiadigest.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/hassock-round-square-and-hexagon1.jpg
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I think we would call all of those "poufs" in BrE.
>>
>> I've normally seen it spelt "pouffe", although the homophone has
>> probably largely driven the word out of use.
>>
> The dictionary I checked with gave both without specifying a
> preference. It's not a word I often write and I was tempted by "poof".
I've heard it - many years ago - as "poufay".
Guy Barry
Jun 3, 2014, 3:06:29 AM6/3/14
to
"Dr Nick" wrote in message news:87ppiro...@temporary-address.org.uk...
That's how I always used to hear it pronounced as a child, maybe by people
who didn't want to say something that sounded like "poof". I always thought
it was the correct pronunciation and was quite surprised when I heard people
saying "poof". There doesn't seem to be any historical justification for
the two-syllable pronunciation.
--
Guy Barry
who didn't want to say something that sounded like "poof". I always thought
it was the correct pronunciation and was quite surprised when I heard people
saying "poof". There doesn't seem to be any historical justification for
the two-syllable pronunciation.
--
Guy Barry
Paul Wolff
Jun 4, 2014, 6:41:47 AM6/4/14
to
On Mon, 2 Jun 2014, CDB <belle...@gmail.com> posted:
Ever slow out of my starting blocks, I've just remembered that we have
here an article of furniture which as a child I called a toy cupboard,
but it has since been identified as a garde-manger. That's a location,
of course (first or second course, doesn't matter, and if you have the
key you have the entr�e).
--
Paul
here an article of furniture which as a child I called a toy cupboard,
but it has since been identified as a garde-manger. That's a location,
of course (first or second course, doesn't matter, and if you have the
key you have the entr�e).
--
Paul
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