Motherland vs Fatherland
Anil Kumar Mudumbe
I am trying to find out how/why countries are referred
to as Motherland vs Fatherland ?
thanks,
Anil
CyberCypher
news:41883629.02092...@posting.google.com:
> Hi,
>
> I am trying to find out how/why countries are referred
> to as Motherland vs Fatherland ?
Parental favoritism and sexism pure and simple.
--
Franke: Speaker and teacher of Standard International English (SIE)
Per Rønne
> I am trying to find out how/why countries are referred
> to as Motherland vs Fatherland ?
Well, maybe we should find out the proper word in different languages.
In Danish the Fatherland is ones home country and the Motherland is a
colony's founding country. As thus people have a Fatherland and
countries /may/ have a Motherland. The motherland of the United States
is England ...
In German the proper word is Fatherland, in Turkish I know it is
Motherland.
And in the Oxford English Dictionary you can read the following on
fatherland:
1. The land of one's birth, one's country. †in fatherland, at home
(opp. to abroad). Cf. mother-country.
b. Used to translate the Dutch or German vaderland, vaterland. the
Fatherland: now usually = Germany.
2. The land of one's fathers; mother-country.
Hence "fatherlandish a. [+ -ish], of, or pertaining to, one's
fatherland.
And motherland:
a. A country as the mother or producer of anything. b. The country
of one's origin; one's native country.
--
Per Erik Rønne
John Dean
I think that's an interesting question. In England, I hear people talk of
the 'Mother Country' but not the Motherland. In Wales it's 'Land of my
Fathers'. The Germans have das Vaterland - the Fatherland, and Russians have
Rodina - the Motherland. French have la Patrie - the country - which is
feminine but I don't think they call it Motherland. USAns seem to favour the
neutral 'Homeland'.
It would be interesting to see a list of countries divided as to whether
thay call themselves Motherland, Fatherland, something neutral or Nothing at
all.
Unfortunately, I have no idea how or why any of these came about.
--
John Dean
Oxford
De-frag to reply
Lars Eighner
<41883629.02092...@posting.google.com>,
the lovely and talented Anil Kumar Mudumbe
broadcast on alt.usage.english:
> Hi,
> I am trying to find out how/why countries are referred
> to as Motherland vs Fatherland ?
If they are fascist, it is Fatherland. If they are
communist, it is Motherland. If they have idiots running
the government, it is Homeland.
--
Lars Eighner -finger for geek code- eig...@io.com http://www.io.com/~eighner/
"The very essence of the creative is its novelty, and hence we have no
standard by which to judge it." --Carl R. Rogers, On Becoming a Person
Sebastian Hew
> French have la
> Patrie - the country - which is feminine but I don't think they call
> it Motherland.
The French 'la patrie' is presumably from Latin 'patria', fatherland,
regularly feminine because it is a noun of the first declension.
Nonetheless, 'patria' is etymologically related to 'pater', father, and
its usual translation, when one parent must be chosen, is fatherland.
Sebastian.
Pat Durkin
"Lars Eighner" <eig...@io.com> wrote in message
news:slrnapbs7a....@dumpster.io.com...
> In our last episode,
> <41883629.02092...@posting.google.com>,
> the lovely and talented Anil Kumar Mudumbe
> broadcast on alt.usage.english:
>
> > Hi,
>
> > I am trying to find out how/why countries are referred
> > to as Motherland vs Fatherland ?
>
> If they are fascist, it is Fatherland. If they are
> communist, it is Motherland. If they have idiots running
> the government, it is Homeland.
>
Charles Riggs
<john...@frag.lineone.net> wrote:
>It would be interesting to see a list of countries divided as to whether
>thay call themselves Motherland, Fatherland, something neutral or Nothing at
>all.
If we aren't the group to do it, which is? I'll make a tiny start:
France Feminine
Russia Feminine
Germany Masculine
England Feminine, I believe
US Feminine, I think, based on the song "America the
Beautiful"
Ireland Feminine?
Damn, that wasn't very interesting. They all appear to be Motherlands,
except for Germany.
Charles
Sebastian Hew
> If we aren't the group to do it, which is? I'll make a tiny start:
>
> France Feminine
I would have said that France has the masculine. Granted, la patrie is
grammatically feminine, as indeed it is in Latin, but it is
etymologically related to père and therefore semantically masculine,
c.f., la sentinelle.
Sebastian.
John Holmes
> > to as Motherland vs Fatherland ?
>
> If they are fascist, it is Fatherland. If they are
> communist, it is Motherland. If they have idiots running
> the government, it is Homeland.
Oh dear. Does that mean that if we have a national song with the lines:
Our own land, our Homeland
To cherish for eternity.
that we're going to have to put up with the idiots for all eternity?
--
Regards
John
Per Rønne
> Charles Riggs wrote:
> > France Feminine
Or virtue from Latin virtus - which comes from Latin »vir«, man.
Slightly difficult in English because the English word »man« both mean
»adult male human« and just »human«.
--
Per Erik Rønne
Mike Lyle
They're part of our Gloria Sarah Titch.
Mike.
John Holmes
"Mike Lyle" <mike_l...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3fa4d950.02092...@posting.google.com...
> "John Holmes" <hol...@smart.net.au> wrote in message
news:<an71ds$1jg$2...@perki.connect.com.au>...
> >
lines:
> >
> > Our own land, our Homeland
> > To cherish for eternity.
> >
> > that we're going to have to put up with the idiots for all eternity?
>
> They're part of our Gloria Sarah Titch.
Yeah, carnal paired luck eyes pose. But nodgers idiots egg jelly,
smudgers nark leds a nutter rep airgs.
--
Regards
John
Mike Lyle
Cripesmite, esserding umdrum! Numbutter mobber flyman lowcuss, Saul A R.
Mike.
sage
(Not that I've been able to translate it all. Not related to Emma Chizzit,
are you?)
Cheers, Sage
Christopher Green
USAns seem to favour the neutral 'Homeland'.
Only a certain sort of USAn that self-consciously wraps themselves in
the flag.
Since the USA is a nation of relatively recent immigrants, terms
connoting ancestry like "Fatherland" and "Motherland" haven't had a
chance to take hold, and Native Americans didn't think in those terms,
AFAIK.
--
Chris Green
Evan Kirshenbaum
> USAns seem to favour the neutral 'Homeland'.
Before the recent "homleand security" (and what the hell is wrong with
"domestic"?) I would have said that 95% of Americans would say that a
"homeland" is where you (or, more likely, your ancestors) came *from*,
often in the phrase "ancestral homeland". It seems really weird to
apply it to the US.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |The mystery of government is not how
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |Washington works, but how to make it
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |stop.
| P.J. O'Rourke
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com
(650)857-7572
Ray
> "John Holmes" <hol...@smart.net.au> wrote in message
news:<an8mi7$8id$2...@perki.connect.com.au>...
> > "Mike Lyle" <mike_l...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> > news:3fa4d950.02092...@posting.google.com...
> > >
> >
> > Yeah, carnal paired luck eyes pose. But nodgers idiots egg jelly,
> > smudgers nark leds a nutter rep airgs.
>
> Cripesmite, esserding umdrum! Numbutter mobber flyman lowcuss, Saul A R.
>
> Mike.
Airs, aorta do sum a bare tit. An aorta do it quick, sews we arn Wayne A.
Rand orler time. An aorta think a bare tit, core swennay rush INUIT, sorl
mucked arp inney end. An aorta ask me wotter do, stead a fallem drongos
inner gummint. An aorta stop sucker NUPTA everyone aller time. Doan chew
worry abat that, mate, scona be a grade A whennay getter rairn tuit.
Ray
R J Valentine
} "John Dean" <john...@frag.lineone.net> writes:
}
}> USAns seem to favour the neutral 'Homeland'.
}
} Before the recent "homleand security" (and what the hell is wrong with
} "domestic"?)
You mean like for household alarm systems that might help to prevent some
tipes of domestic violence?
} I would have said that 95% of Americans would say that a
} "homeland" is where you (or, more likely, your ancestors) came *from*,
} often in the phrase "ancestral homeland". It seems really weird to
} apply it to the US.
A lot of people living on reservations might not think so.
It's just that "Department of the Interior" and "National Security
Agency" were already taken.
--
R. J. Valentine <mailto:r...@smart.net>
Mike Lyle
> Mike Lyle <mike_l...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:3fa4d950.02093...@posting.google.com...
> > "John Holmes" <hol...@smart.net.au> wrote in message
> news:<an8mi7$8id$2...@perki.connect.com.au>...
> > > "Mike Lyle" <mike_l...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> > > news:3fa4d950.02092...@posting.google.com...
> > > > "John Holmes" <hol...@smart.net.au> wrote in message
> news:<an71ds$1jg$2...@perki.connect.com.au>...
> > > > >
> > > > > Oh dear. Does that mean that if we have a national song with the
> lines:
> > > > >
> > > > > Our own land, our Homeland
> > > > > To cherish for eternity.
> > > > >
> > > > > that we're going to have to put up with the idiots for all eternity?
> > > >
> > > > They're part of our Gloria Sarah Titch.
> > >
> > > Yeah, carnal paired luck eyes pose. But nodgers idiots egg jelly,
> > > smudgers nark leds a nutter rep airgs.
> >
> > Cripesmite, esserding umdrum! Numbutter mobber flyman lowcuss, Saul A R.
> >
> > Mike.
> You've given me the laugh of the month, gentlemen. :)
> (Not that I've been able to translate it all. Not related to Emma Chizzit,
> are you?)
Surnly. Pradda vut.
Mike.
Evan Kirshenbaum
> Evan Kirshenbaum <kirsh...@hpl.hp.com> wrote:
>
> } I would have said that 95% of Americans would say
> } that a "homeland" is where you (or, more likely, your ancestors)
> } came *from*, often in the phrase "ancestral homeland". It seems
> } really weird to apply it to the US.
>
> A lot of people living on reservations might not think so.
Even they wouldn't apply it to "the US", but to specific regions that
happen to now be within the US. I've heard it use, somewhat tongue-
in-cheek, by people who have moved significant distances within the US
as well (as by one friend who lived in California but grew up in
Milwaukee).
> It's just that "Department of the Interior" and "National Security
> Agency" were already taken.
Yeah. I was expecting "Domestic Security" before they came out with
the "homeland" nonsense.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |If I may digress momentarily from
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |the mainstream of this evening's
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |symposium, I'd like to sing a song
|which is completely pointless.
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com | Tom Lehrer
(650)857-7572