Any road up

[Justin Thyme]

When I was growing up in working-class Birmingham (the one in the
English Midlands) in the 60s "any road up" was a common-enough idiom
meaning something like "anyway" signalling that the topic under
discussion was (temporarily perhaps) abandoned and some other matter
turned to or returned to. One also heard it from Hugh Paddick in Round
the Horne. (More precisely, from Took and Feldman through the mouth of
Paddick.)

Any thoughts about just how "any road up" (also "any road" with no "up")
comes to mean "anyway"? And is it still current?

--
Shall we only threaten and be angry for an hour?
When the storm is ended shall we find
How softly but how swiftly they have sidled back to power
By the favour and contrivance of their kind?

From /Mesopotamia 1917/ by Rudyard Kipling

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

Justin Thyme skrev:

> Any thoughts about just how "any road up" (also "any road" with
> no "up") comes to mean "anyway"? And is it still current?

Is there such a huge difference between "way" and "road"?

--
Bertel, Kolt, Denmark

[Peter Moylan]

On 2015-Sep-02 21:20, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
> Justin Thyme skrev:
>
>> Any thoughts about just how "any road up" (also "any road" with
>> no "up") comes to mean "anyway"? And is it still current?
>
> Is there such a huge difference between "way" and "road"?

"Anyway" is such an old word that native speakers will not necessarily
see the connection with "any way". If we do, we think of it as "by any
means" rather than "by any route" [1].

Still, it's undeniable that "any road" is sometimes used. I suspect that
it started as a joke, before any of us were born. I've never heard the
version with the "up", but I suppose that that's regional.

[1] Interestingly, we do remain conscious of the constituent parts in
words like "anything", "anywhere", and even "anyone".

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

Peter Moylan skrev:

> "Anyway" is such an old word that native speakers will not necessarily
> see the connection with "any way". If we do, we think of it as "by any
> means" rather than "by any route" [1].

I think the reason is that "way" has two very common meanings.

> Still, it's undeniable that "any road" is sometimes used. I suspect that
> it started as a joke, before any of us were born.

That is my guess too. Similar jokes are not uncommon in Denmark.

> [1] Interestingly, we do remain conscious of the constituent parts in
> words like "anything", "anywhere", and even "anyone".

"Thing", "where" and "one" have only one meaning (sort of).

--
Bertel, Kolt, Denmark

[Justin Thyme]

Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
> Justin Thyme skrev:
>
>> Any thoughts about just how "any road up" (also "any road" with
>> no "up") comes to mean "anyway"? And is it still current?
>
> Is there such a huge difference between "way" and "road"?

Yes.

[Harrison Hill]

On Wednesday, 2 September 2015 11:56:16 UTC+1, Justin Thyme wrote:
> When I was growing up in working-class Birmingham (the one in the
> English Midlands) in the 60s "any road up" was a common-enough idiom
> meaning something like "anyway" signalling that the topic under
> discussion was (temporarily perhaps) abandoned and some other matter
> turned to or returned to. One also heard it from Hugh Paddick in Round
> the Horne. (More precisely, from Took and Feldman through the mouth of
> Paddick.)
>
> Any thoughts about just how "any road up" (also "any road" with no "up")
> comes to mean "anyway"? And is it still current?

I still say "any road" but I've never heard "any road up". Like the others I would guess it started as a joke.

There is no difference at all between "way" and "road" - the "way" between villages (a "bridleway") sometimes became a road and sometimes didn't. "Worple" is another one.

[the Omrud]

Over lunch today (scotch broth soup), Wife (knowing nothing of this
thread) slotted "anyroad" into the conversation. But then she is from
Yorkshire.

--
David

[James Hogg]

Ulster English has "road" in lots of places where standard English uses
"way" or "-where" or "-wards": "anyroad, everyroad, noroad, someroad,
backroads, halfroads, sideroads" and "Move it this road a wee bit."

--
James

[Jack Campin]

>>> Any thoughts about just how "any road up" (also "any road" with
>>> no "up") comes to mean "anyway"? And is it still current?
>> I still say "any road" but I've never heard "any road up".

>> There is no difference at all between "way" and "road" - the
>> "way" between villages (a "bridleway") sometimes became a road
>> and sometimes didn't. "Worple" is another one.
> Over lunch today (scotch broth soup), Wife (knowing nothing of
> this thread) slotted "anyroad" into the conversation. But then
> she is from Yorkshire.

I *must* try "anyworple" out when I'm next in Whitby.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
e m a i l : j a c k @ c a m p i n . m e . u k
Jack Campin, 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU, Scotland
mobile 07800 739 557 <http://www.campin.me.uk> Twitter: JackCampin

[the Omrud]

"Get out of the road" and "You're in my road" are used everywhere in
BrE, I think.

--
David

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

On 2015-09-02 12:56:13 +0200, Justin Thyme <Justi...@nowhere.com> said:

> When I was growing up in working-class Birmingham (the one in the
> English Midlands) in the 60s "any road up" was a common-enough idiom
> meaning something like "anyway" signalling that the topic under
> discussion was (temporarily perhaps) abandoned and some other matter
> turned to or returned to. One also heard it from Hugh Paddick in Round
> the Horne. (More precisely, from Took and Feldman through the mouth of
> Paddick.)

When I lived in Birmingham (the same one) in the 1970s I often heard
"any road" used to mean "anyway", but I don't remember ever hearing
"up" attached.

>
> Any thoughts about just how "any road up" (also "any road" with no
> "up") comes to mean "anyway"? And is it still current?


--

athel

[the Omrud]

On 02/09/2015 16:37, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> On 2015-09-02 12:56:13 +0200, Justin Thyme <Justi...@nowhere.com> said:
>
>> When I was growing up in working-class Birmingham (the one in the
>> English Midlands) in the 60s "any road up" was a common-enough idiom
>> meaning something like "anyway" signalling that the topic under
>> discussion was (temporarily perhaps) abandoned and some other matter
>> turned to or returned to. One also heard it from Hugh Paddick in
>> Round the Horne. (More precisely, from Took and Feldman through the
>> mouth of Paddick.)
>
> When I lived in Birmingham (the same one) in the 1970s I often heard
> "any road" used to mean "anyway", but I don't remember ever hearing "up"
> attached.

Ditto from my West Midlands childood, although I'm now familiar with it.
I would say that anyroadup is NorthernEngandE.

--
David

[Justin Thyme]

Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> On 2015-09-02 12:56:13 +0200, Justin Thyme <Justi...@nowhere.com> said:
>
>> When I was growing up in working-class Birmingham (the one in the
>> English Midlands) in the 60s "any road up" was a common-enough idiom
>> meaning something like "anyway" signalling that the topic under
>> discussion was (temporarily perhaps) abandoned and some other matter
>> turned to or returned to. One also heard it from Hugh Paddick in
>> Round the Horne. (More precisely, from Took and Feldman through the
>> mouth of Paddick.)
>
> When I lived in Birmingham (the same one) in the 1970s I often heard
> "any road" used to mean "anyway", but I don't remember ever hearing "up"
> attached.

Did you ever hear "chimbley" for "chimney"? If not either you moved in
the wrong circles, or the Brummies had educated themselves between times!

>> Any thoughts about just how "any road up" (also "any road" with no
>> "up") comes to mean "anyway"? And is it still current?
>
>


--

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

On 2015-09-02 17:36:09 +0000, Justin Thyme said:

> Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>> On 2015-09-02 12:56:13 +0200, Justin Thyme <Justi...@nowhere.com> said:
>>
>>> When I was growing up in working-class Birmingham (the one in the
>>> English Midlands) in the 60s "any road up" was a common-enough idiom
>>> meaning something like "anyway" signalling that the topic under
>>> discussion was (temporarily perhaps) abandoned and some other matter
>>> turned to or returned to. One also heard it from Hugh Paddick in
>>> Round the Horne. (More precisely, from Took and Feldman through the
>>> mouth of Paddick.)
>>
>> When I lived in Birmingham (the same one) in the 1970s I often heard
>> "any road" used to mean "anyway", but I don't remember ever hearing "up"
>> attached.
>
> Did you ever hear "chimbley" for "chimney"?

Not sure. Maybe.

> If not either you moved in the wrong circles,

Possibly. Where I lived from 1971 to 1977 (Northfield) wasn't exactly
working class, but it wasn't classy either. Later (1977 to 1982) I
lived in Moseley, which was more up-market (though very close to
Balsall Heath, which wasn't at all up-market).

> or the Brummies had educated themselves between times!
>
>>> Any thoughts about just how "any road up" (also "any road" with no
>>> "up") comes to mean "anyway"? And is it still current?


--

athel

[Derek Turner]

On Wed, 02 Sep 2015 11:56:13 +0100, Justin Thyme wrote:

> Any thoughts about just how "any road up" (also "any road" with no "up")
> comes to mean "anyway"? And is it still current?

Still very current in the midlands (North Staffordshire for certain). I
think it's still current further north (Yorkshire) too, but I may be
wrong.

[Robin Bignall]

On Wed, 2 Sep 2015 16:41:52 +0100, the Omrud <usenet...@gmail.com>
wrote:

I occasionally heard anyroadup WIWAL in Nottingham.
--
Robin Bignall
Herts, England (BrE)

[Robin Bignall]

On Wed, 02 Sep 2015 18:36:09 +0100, Justin Thyme
<Justi...@nowhere.com> wrote:

>Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>> On 2015-09-02 12:56:13 +0200, Justin Thyme <Justi...@nowhere.com> said:
>>
>>> When I was growing up in working-class Birmingham (the one in the
>>> English Midlands) in the 60s "any road up" was a common-enough idiom
>>> meaning something like "anyway" signalling that the topic under
>>> discussion was (temporarily perhaps) abandoned and some other matter
>>> turned to or returned to. One also heard it from Hugh Paddick in
>>> Round the Horne. (More precisely, from Took and Feldman through the
>>> mouth of Paddick.)
>>
>> When I lived in Birmingham (the same one) in the 1970s I often heard
>> "any road" used to mean "anyway", but I don't remember ever hearing "up"
>> attached.
>
>Did you ever hear "chimbley" for "chimney"? If not either you moved in
>the wrong circles, or the Brummies had educated themselves between times!
>

"Chimbley" was one of the words Dickens used when imitating working
class accents.

[Jerry Friedman]

Totally new to me. The OED spells it "warple".

--
Jerry Friedman

[Robert Bannister]

On 2/09/2015 6:56 pm, Justin Thyme wrote:
> When I was growing up in working-class Birmingham (the one in the
> English Midlands) in the 60s "any road up" was a common-enough idiom
> meaning something like "anyway" signalling that the topic under
> discussion was (temporarily perhaps) abandoned and some other matter
> turned to or returned to. One also heard it from Hugh Paddick in Round
> the Horne. (More precisely, from Took and Feldman through the mouth of
> Paddick.)
>
> Any thoughts about just how "any road up" (also "any road" with no "up")
> comes to mean "anyway"? And is it still current?
>

Is a "road" so very different from a "way"?

--
Robert Bannister
Perth, Western Australia

[Robert Bannister]

On 3/09/2015 1:36 am, Justin Thyme wrote:
> Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>> On 2015-09-02 12:56:13 +0200, Justin Thyme <Justi...@nowhere.com>
>> said:
>>
>>> When I was growing up in working-class Birmingham (the one in the
>>> English Midlands) in the 60s "any road up" was a common-enough idiom
>>> meaning something like "anyway" signalling that the topic under
>>> discussion was (temporarily perhaps) abandoned and some other matter
>>> turned to or returned to. One also heard it from Hugh Paddick in
>>> Round the Horne. (More precisely, from Took and Feldman through the
>>> mouth of Paddick.)
>>
>> When I lived in Birmingham (the same one) in the 1970s I often heard
>> "any road" used to mean "anyway", but I don't remember ever hearing "up"
>> attached.
>
> Did you ever hear "chimbley" for "chimney"? If not either you moved in
> the wrong circles, or the Brummies had educated themselves between times!

Regularly. Also "rezervaw" (reservoir) and "toytoyss" (tortoise).

[Peter T. Daniels]

In AmE, "way" very rarely refers to a physical thing; it refers to the path,
the direction taken ("Get out of the way!" "Do you know the way to San Jose?"
[sic no acute accent]). Presumably "highway" derives from the earlier sense
of some sort of road, but "way" there or in all the derivatives (expressway,
freeway, thruway, etc.) doesn't communicate anything. "Broadway" is also very
old.

The very occasional use of "Way" in a street name usually marks a very
insignificant road, maybe a private drive.

[Mark Brader]

Peter Moylan:

> Still, it's undeniable that "any road" is sometimes used. I suspect that
> it started as a joke, before any of us were born.

I went to the OED Online to look it up. I typed "any road" into the
search blank and it found zero entries for that phrase as a headword,
but two uses in definitions. One of these (under "bus") was a false
hit ("any road vehicle"), but the other one (under "road") read as
follows:

# 9. Eng. regional (chiefly north. in later use). Way, manner.
# Freq. as no road: (in) no way or manner; some road: (in) some
# way or manner. See also any road adv..

The "see also" was a link, of course, but as the original search result
suggested, it was a 404.

Anyway, there are 7 cites, from 1855 to 1991, including 5 different
phrasal contexts: "'all road'" (with scare quotes), "no road", "some
road or other", "the road she wants", and "the road of humouring her".


The original search also produced 16 hits for "any road" in quotations.
Of these, 13 appeared to be about actual roads, as in the "bus" definition.
2 more hits were the same line from Thomas Hardy (in 1919):

Why go any road now? White stands the handpost for brisk onbearers.

This is cited under both "handpost" (a finger-post) and "onbearer"
(from "on" and "bear", so presumably one who bears on).

The remaining hit is dated 2003, from one R. Bean in "Honeymoon Suite",
and it reads:

Any road, I said, I aren't gonna talk about Harriet.

This cite is about the use of "aren't", and therefore it appears under
"be", but in the section that only appears if you click on "see more"
under "forms". (Without knowing to so that, I could only find it in
Firefox by turning styles off.)


> I've never heard the version with the "up", but...

Likewise.
--
Mark Brader | "Warning! Drinking beer, wine or spirits during
Toronto | pregnancy can harm your baby." (City of Toronto
m...@vex.net | notice in restaurant washrooms--men's and women's)

My text in this article is in the public domain.

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

It seems to be different in BrE. "Way" in a street name is less frequent
than "Street", "Road", "Avenue", etc, but is doesn't mark an
insignificant road.

There are places with roads named "Queensway" and "Kingsway" that are
significant roads.

For example, there are several "Ways" in Manchester, England. One main
road in the south of the Greater Manchester area is "Kingsway". As it
heads south it has several different names, including: Storeys Way,
Ainslie Way, MacLean Way, Pendleton Way, Melrose Way. That's all within
15 miles.

Some other Ways in Manchester are: Greenside Way, Raynes Way, Orbital
Way, Eastham Way, Europa Way and Linstock Way.

There is a main road named "Park Way". Next to it is a trading estate
(business area) in which the roads are Alba Way, Caledonia Way, Hibernia
Way and Brightgate Way.

If "gate" in "Brightgate" comes from Old Norse "gata", then "Brightgate
Way" means "Bright street street"

--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

[Peter Moylan]

On 2015-Sep-03 13:53, Peter T. Daniels wrote:

> In AmE, "way" very rarely refers to a physical thing; it refers to the path,
> the direction taken ("Get out of the way!" "Do you know the way to San Jose?"
> [sic no acute accent]). Presumably "highway" derives from the earlier sense
> of some sort of road, but "way" there or in all the derivatives (expressway,
> freeway, thruway, etc.) doesn't communicate anything. "Broadway" is also very
> old.
>
> The very occasional use of "Way" in a street name usually marks a very
> insignificant road, maybe a private drive.

When I lived in Berkeley, California, I lived on Dwight Way, a fairly
heavily trafficked road that ran from the bay all the way into the
hills. It ran parallel to Channing Way, Bancroft Way, and Allston Way,
which were almost as long.

[R H Draney]

"Peter T. Daniels" <gram...@verizon.net> wrote in
news:89f1b393-cd35-4eab...@googlegroups.com:

In the greater Phoenix area, a "Way" runs north-and-south, and only east of
Central Avenue...a "Road" runs east-and-west....r

[Peter T. Daniels]

How far did the alphabet continue?

Were the streets laid out by Brits -- perhaps opportunists hoping for Gold
Rush riches who lucked into real estate instead?

[Peter T. Daniels]

... developers will do _anything_ they think will make their McMansions sound tony.

[James Hogg]

It's all part of a conspiracy to prove that your statement was wrong.

--
James

[Peter T. Daniels]

150+ years ago? Interesting.

[Charles Bishop]

In article <d4ps7f...@mid.individual.net>,

No, and umm, Yes. If I considered the two as synonyms for a path for
travel, then it's "no" since I'm aware of the similar meanings. If,
though I now come across "any road" in the expression similar to
"anyway" then it's "yes" since this use isn't common in my AmE. I do
know of it because of reading and the meaning is clear.

What causes me a few seconds of hesitation before recognition is
realizing that the meaning comes from the same place, that a way is
similar to a road, and it's this source of meaning that is exciting. At
least for someone who likes finding out about words.

--
charles

[James Hogg]

"Ah, well, this is where my claim falls to the ground. There's no
possible way of answering that argument, I'm afraid. I was only hoping
that you would not make that particular point, but I can see that you're
more than a match for me.""

--
James

[Sneaky O. Possum]

Robert Bannister <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote in
news:d4pscg...@mid.individual.net:

They say 'toytoyss'? My ears find that torturous. If I were a tortoise,
I'd consider 'toytoyss' tortious. When the judge ruled against them, the
Brummies would say 'Oh! That taught us!'
--
S.O.P.

[Jerry Friedman]

I forgot about this for a week. Anyway, it's not intended as evidence in
any argument--and the street is very insignificant.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/10904042@N04/

--
Jerry Friedman

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

I like it.