rised, rose, rosen etc.
qazmlp
Gary Williams
> When will you use rised, rose, rosen, raised? I'm confused about these
Well, it isn't "rised", it's "rose. And it isn't "rosen", it's
"risen".
Rise is the present tense form, rose the past, risen the past
participle. Use them as you would the present, past, and past
participle of any other verb.
"Raised" is not part of the conjugation of "rise" at all, but is the
past tense and past participle of the verb "to raise".
The difference between these two verbs is that "to rise" is
intransitive, and "to raise" is transitive. That is, the verb "to
rise" describes an action but does not permit that action to have an
object. The verb "to raise" is transitive, and demands that the
action have an object.
"To rise" is to go to a higher level; "to raise" is to take something
to a higher level.
What if the subject of a sentence goes to a higher level under its own
power? Generally we will use "to rise": "The hot-air balloon rose
into the sky." It is possible to use "to raise" reflexively if the
subject is animate: "The sick man slowly raised himself from his
bed." There is, I think, a subtle difference between "to rise" and
"to raise oneself"; but I think that at this stage you may regard the
two as equivalent.
Gary Williams
Nick Wedd
<qazml...@rediffmail.com> writes
>When will you use rised, rose, rosen, raised? I'm confused about these
I never use "rised" or "rosen" in English.
"Raise" is a transitive verb.
"I raise horses."
"I have raised some horses."
"I raised some horses."
"Rise" is an intransitive verb.
"The cake rises."
"The cake has risen."
"The cake rose."
A rose is also a flower.
Nick
--
Nick Wedd ni...@maproom.co.uk
Richard Fontana
Also, an AmE "raise" (increase in an employee's salary) is a BrE "rise",
if I'm not mistaken.
Nick Wedd
Fontana <rfon...@wesleyan.edu> writes
It is indeed.
Also, a "rise" is something a fish does (or gives?) when you are
angling. "Look, Tim has got a rise!".
Alan Jones
"Richard Fontana" <rfon...@wesleyan.edu> wrote in message
news:slrna23toa....@localhost.localdomain...
Quite so. The employer raises our salary, we get a rise in pay, our income
rises..
Alan Jones
R H Draney
There is also the word "rear" (in some dialects, a homophone of
"rare"), a near-synonym of "raise", in the sense of nurturing a child
or other agricultural product to maturity....
And a US "raisin" is a UK "sultana", but that has as little to do with
the matter as the bit above about the flower....r
--
"God grant me the Serenity to accept the things I
cannot change, the Courage to change the things
I can, and the Wisdom to know the difference
...oh, and a pony!"
M.J.Powell
<ni...@maproom.co.uk> writes
And, oddly, you can take a 'rise' out of someone.
Mike
--
M.J.Powell
Apurbva Chandra Senray
> In article <c$5+GnDvf...@maproom.demon.co.uk>, Nick Wedd
> <ni...@maproom.co.uk> writes
> >Also, a "rise" is something a fish does (or gives?) when you are
> >angling. "Look, Tim has got a rise!".
>
> And, oddly, you can take a 'rise' out of someone.
Is that the same as "getting a rise" out of someone?
Don Aitken
wrote:
>And a US "raisin" is a UK "sultana", but that has as little to do with
>the matter as the bit above about the flower....r
Surely not? Boxes of "California Seedless Raisins" with a picture of a
cheery all-American girl on the front are common supermarket items
hereabouts - small black sweet things that stick to your teeth. I've
never heard anything else called a raisin. Sultanas are larger, and a
sort of biege color. I presume they come from read and white grapes,
respectively. There are also currants, which are very much like
raisins (possibly another name for the same thing), but I only come
across them in buns.
--
Don Aitken
R H Draney
wrote:
>On Thu, 20 Dec 2001 17:45:07 GMT, dado...@earthlink.net (R H Draney)
>wrote:
>
>>And a US "raisin" is a UK "sultana", but that has as little to do with
>>the matter as the bit above about the flower....r
>
>Surely not? Boxes of "California Seedless Raisins" with a picture of a
>cheery all-American girl on the front are common supermarket items
>hereabouts - small black sweet things that stick to your teeth.
Is this her?
Considering the history and location of California's raisin belt, that
"all-American girl" looks awfully Mexican....
>I've
>never heard anything else called a raisin. Sultanas are larger, and a
>sort of biege color. I presume they come from read and white grapes,
>respectively. There are also currants, which are very much like
>raisins (possibly another name for the same thing), but I only come
>across them in buns.
I'll take your word for it...I just know that the preantepenultimate
time I made Irish soda bread, a British acquaintance of mine kept
calling "sultanas" the bits I had purchased under the rubric of
"golden raisins"...thought it was a Pondian thing....r
Mike Oliver
> I'll take your word for it...I just know that the preantepenultimate
> time I made Irish soda bread, a British acquaintance of mine kept
> calling "sultanas" the bits I had purchased under the rubric of
> "golden raisins"...thought it was a Pondian thing....r
I have the notion that golden raisins are bleached with SO2. They're
a little brighter yellow than sultanas, I think, though the taste
is quite similar.
Padraig Breathnach
Irish soda bread with golden raisins? Sacrilege.
We do make a thing called sultana bread. Perhaps awareness of that
predisposed your acquaintance in choice of words.
ObAUE: I find "anteprepenultimate" easier to articulate.
PB
N.Mitchum
----
> Considering the history and location of California's raisin belt, that
> "all-American girl" looks awfully Mexican....
Wearing that pioneer bonnet? How could the Sun-Maid maiden be
anything but good old American stock? Unless she's Armenian or
Italian, of course. Or Basque. How does considering the history
and location shape your perceptions, anyway?
----NM
R H Draney
wrote:
>dado...@earthlink.net (R H Draney) wrote:
>
>>I'll take your word for it...I just know that the preantepenultimate
>>time I made Irish soda bread, a British acquaintance of mine kept
>>calling "sultanas" the bits I had purchased under the rubric of
>>"golden raisins"...thought it was a Pondian thing....r
>
>Irish soda bread with golden raisins? Sacrilege.
I'll try to find the recipe (food is always on-topic here, right?) in
the dog-eared copy of Sunset magazine whence it came...it includes
what I must now call "dark" raisins, golden raisins, *and* currants,
as well as caraway seeds...nearly every member of my family finds at
least one ingredient distasteful; I'm more omnivorous myself....
>We do make a thing called sultana bread. Perhaps awareness of that
>predisposed your acquaintance in choice of words.
>
>ObAUE: I find "anteprepenultimate" easier to articulate.
But the stress pattern is all wrong for use in limericks....r
--
"Those cracks in the sidewalk, they look like an outline of the west coast of Mexico. Those cracks in the sidewalk, they are the west coast of Mexico.
Those ants in the middle, they are eating the Yucatan. Someone has stepped in Panama. They have left smudges in the Pacific."
--ly...@pharmdec.wustl.edu
Richard Fontana
She doesn't look like "good old American stock" to me, but I also don't
think she looks Mexican. I've always thought of her as vaguely
Mediterranean; Italian is a possibility, and Armenian or Basque is
conceivable.
Tony Cooper
>
> dado...@earthlink.net (R H Draney) wrote:
>
> >I'll take your word for it...I just know that the preantepenultimate
> >time I made Irish soda bread, a British acquaintance of mine kept
> >calling "sultanas" the bits I had purchased under the rubric of
> >"golden raisins"...thought it was a Pondian thing....r
>
> Irish soda bread with golden raisins? Sacrilege.
>
comment to her, and she snorted like a mule. I was shocked.
--
Tony Cooper aka: tony_co...@yahoo.com
Provider of Jots and Tittles
Tony Cooper
>
Sultanas are larger, and a
> sort of biege color. I presume they come from read and white grapes,
> respectively.
Riddle: What's black and white and read all over?
Reinhold (Rey) Aman
[...]
> Riddle: What's black and white and read all over?
A nun in a blender.
--
Reinhold (Rey) Aman
Bob Stahl
>N.Mitchum:
>>R H Draney wrote:
>>> Considering the history and location of California's raisin
>>> belt, that "all-American girl" looks awfully Mexican....
>>anything but good old American stock? Unless she's Armenian or
>>Italian, of course. Or Basque. How does considering the history
>>and location shape your perceptions, anyway?
>She doesn't look like "good old American stock" to me, but I also
>don't think she looks Mexican. I've always thought of her as
>vaguely Mediterranean; Italian is a possibility, and Armenian or
>Basque is conceivable.
Swiss-Italian, probably.
As opposed to the Clabber Girl, who is surely a WASP.
---
Bob Stahl
Mark Wallace
"Apurbva Chandra Senray" <acse...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c7482783.01122...@posting.google.com...
Getting a rise means getting a reaction from someone, usually a
strong one, but the UK use of 'take the rise' is more or less
synonymous with 'mock'[1].
[1] Note my careful avoidance of 'take the mickey'.
--
Mark Wallace
____________________________
Little girl lost?
http://humorpages.virtualave.net/m-pages/mother.htm
____________________________
Matti Lamprhey
> "Apurbva Chandra Senray" <acse...@yahoo.com> wrote...
> > "M.J.Powell" <mi...@pickmere.demon.co.uk> wrote...
> > > Nick Wedd <ni...@maproom.co.uk> writes
> >
> > > >Also, a "rise" is something a fish does (or gives?) when you
> > > >are angling. "Look, Tim has got a rise!".
> > >
> > > And, oddly, you can take a 'rise' out of someone.
> >
> > Is that the same as "getting a rise" out of someone?
>
> Getting a rise means getting a reaction from someone, usually a
> strong one, but the UK use of 'take the rise' is more or less
> synonymous with 'mock'[1].
> [1] Note my careful avoidance of 'take the mickey'.
I think you're confusing the two, actually. The phrase in Britain is, as
Mike Powell pointed out, to "take a rise". It means to raise a laugh at
someone's expense, to make him a butt. It's thought to be a metaphor from
fly-fishing, precisely as Nick Wedd gave it.
Matti
Stephen Toogood
ait...@freeuk.com> writes
for cooking was a tedious and time-consuming business. I vaguely
remember being set to help at the age of about 5 - part of my
apprenticeship in the kitchen. I think the Californian suppliers were
probably the first to offer fruit without the stones, and they were an
immediate success.
Up until recently some of the best raisins came from Afghanistan, and
you could get red and black varieties. Australia is one of the big
suppliers, and always has been; indeed, the most scrummy raisins of all
are the Lexia from, well one of our Oz correspondents will doubtless
tell us which state (Queensland?). These fetch a premium price, but who
needs sweets when you have these?
I reckon Australia are probably the biggest suppliers of sultanas, which
may well correspond to the 'golden raisins' mentioned above in the
thread, They tend to be more moist, and smaller than raisins, but with
so much liquid paraffin and sorbate being used to retain moisture
(particularly by the Californians) it's hard to distinguish on those
grounds.
Currants however are different. They're tiny, round and black, and
mostly come from Greece. You can't substitute the other two in buns - it
simply doesn't work. My current currants are probably three years old.
Still all right.
--
Stephen Toogood
Fabian
"Matti Lamprhey" <matti-...@totally-official.com> wrote in message
news:9vv24m$hrlva$1...@ID-103223.news.dfncis.de...
I've never heard 'take a rise' in my many years in the UK. I have heard
'get a rise', usualy spoken in the past tense.
[snip nosegropes]
--
--
Fabian
Don't you believe insanity claws?
Donna Richoux
Me, the only one I know it to get a rise out of someone, to get a
reaction (often one of indignation). Never saw or heard "to take a
rise."
--
Best -- Donna Richoux
Matti Lamprhey
> Matti Lamprhey <matti-...@totally-official.com> wrote:
> > "Mark Wallace" <mwallac...@noknok.nl> wrote...
> > > "Apurbva Chandra Senray" <acse...@yahoo.com> wrote...
> > > > "M.J.Powell" <mi...@pickmere.demon.co.uk> wrote...
> > > > > Nick Wedd <ni...@maproom.co.uk> writes
> > > >
> > > > > >Also, a "rise" is something a fish does (or gives?) when you
> > > > > >are angling. "Look, Tim has got a rise!".
> > > > >
> > > > > And, oddly, you can take a 'rise' out of someone.
> > > >
> > > > Is that the same as "getting a rise" out of someone?
> > >
> > > Getting a rise means getting a reaction from someone, usually a
> > > strong one, but the UK use of 'take the rise' is more or less
> > > synonymous with 'mock'[1].
> > > [1] Note my careful avoidance of 'take the mickey'.
> >
> > I think you're confusing the two, actually. The phrase in Britain is,
> > as Mike Powell pointed out, to "take a rise". It means to raise a
> > laugh at someone's expense, to make him a butt. It's thought to be a
> > metaphor from fly-fishing, precisely as Nick Wedd gave it.
>
> reaction (often one of indignation). Never saw or heard "to take a
> rise."
What I posted accords with Brewer, but I hadn't heard "take a rise" myself.
Perhaps wrongly, I regard "get a rise out of" as an Americanism.
Matti
Mark Wallace
"Matti Lamprhey" <matti-...@totally-official.com> wrote in
message news:9vv24m$hrlva$1...@ID-103223.news.dfncis.de...
I think I'm not confusing anything, eigenlijk.
As an Englishman of many years standing, I have never heard the
expression 'to take a rise' used in either a derogatory or a callous
way; only 'to take the rise', which, as I commented earlier, means
'to mock' (more or less).
As to its etymology, I'm afraid I leave fly fishing (and taking
*risers*) to J.R. Hartley. So far as I know, 'taking the rise'
comes from the Royal Navy; something to do with new gunnery ratings'
'initiation'.
--
Mark Wallace
-----------------------------------------------------
Doctor Charles.
You can trust him.
http://humorpages.virtualave.net/m-pages/doc01.htm
-----------------------------------------------------
Laura F Spira
Do have a chair, Mark, I'm sure you must be tired.
I have never heard the
> expression 'to take a rise' used in either a derogatory or a callous
> way; only 'to take the rise', which, as I commented earlier, means
> 'to mock' (more or less).
I have never heard the expression "to take a/the rise" (and I've been
an Englishwoman for as long as I can remember.)
>
> As to its etymology, I'm afraid I leave fly fishing (and taking
> *risers*) to J.R. Hartley.
I see that Yellow Pages were quick to reissue the advert after the
actor's death.
So far as I know, 'taking the rise'
> comes from the Royal Navy; something to do with new gunnery ratings'
> 'initiation'.
>
>
--
Laura
(emulate St. George for email)
Evan Kirshenbaum
> Tony Cooper wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> > Riddle: What's black and white and read all over?
>
> A nun in a blender.
Who'd want to read a nun? Especially this time of year. Gimels are
worth a lot more.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |Bullwinkle: You sure that's the
1501 Page Mill Road, Building 1U | only way?
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |Rocky: Well, if you're going to be
| a hero, you've got to do
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com | stupid things every once in
(650)857-7572 | a while.
R H Draney
<kirsh...@hpl.hp.com> wrote:
>"Reinhold (Rey) Aman" <am...@sonic.net> writes:
>
>> Tony Cooper wrote:
>>
>> > Riddle: What's black and white and read all over?
>>
>> A nun in a blender.
>
>Who'd want to read a nun? Especially this time of year. Gimels are
>worth a lot more.
Yeah, but they spit....r
N.Mitchum
----
> >Wearing that pioneer bonnet? How could the Sun-Maid maiden be
> >anything but good old American stock? Unless she's Armenian or
>
> She doesn't look like "good old American stock" to me, but I also don't
> think she looks Mexican. I've always thought of her as vaguely
> Mediterranean; Italian is a possibility, and Armenian or Basque is
> conceivable.
You want anyone of traditional American stock to have blond hair,
I suppose? My own hair is dark brown, and my English-Scottish
ancestry goes back to before the Revolution. Give me a Stetson,
and you'd swear I was a genuine, leather-slappin bronc buster.
But my side-notes were a bit of California humor. Armenians are a
major force in the agriculture of the Central Valley. Italians
grow or process a lot of grapes here. (Gallo wine?) The Basques
are probably only a tiny minority, but they're proud of and vocal
about their heritage.
----NM
Bob Stahl
>You want anyone of traditional American stock to have blond hair,
>I suppose? My own hair is dark brown, and my English-Scottish
>ancestry goes back to before the Revolution. Give me a Stetson,
>and you'd swear I was a genuine, leather-slappin bronc buster.
>
>But my side-notes were a bit of California humor. Armenians are
>a major force in the agriculture of the Central Valley. Italians
>grow or process a lot of grapes here. (Gallo wine?) The Basques
>are probably only a tiny minority, but they're proud of and vocal
>about their heritage.
One of the oldest still-established California vineyards, in Sonoma, was
planted in Sonoma in the 1850s by the Haraszthy family, from Hungary. In
the 1860s they brought more than 300 varieties over from Europe.
The Sun Maid, and most California raisins, come from the Fresno area.
I'm still guessing she's Swiss-Italian (as many of the farming and
ranching families are here), but the Valley is fairly polyglot. The
original advertising art showed a much younger girl, but with the same
naturally curly dark hair.
---
Bob Stahl
Skitt
"Stephen Toogood" <ste...@stenches.nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:jQak1VAm...@stenches.demon.co.uk...
> Fifty years ago most raisins had stones in them, and preparing the fruit
> for cooking was a tedious and time-consuming business. I vaguely
> remember being set to help at the age of about 5 - part of my
> apprenticeship in the kitchen. I think the Californian suppliers were
> probably the first to offer fruit without the stones, and they were an
> immediate success.
Stones? I beg your pardon, sir! We never put stones in our wonderful
California raisins. Harrumph!
--
Skitt (in SF Bay Area) http://www.geocities.com/opus731/
I speak English well -- I learn it from a book!
-- Manuel of "Fawlty Towers" (he's from Barcelona).
Mark Wallace
"Laura F Spira" <la...@DRAGONspira.u-net.com> wrote in message
news:3C2370C0...@DRAGONspira.u-net.com...
I'd settle for being allowed to put the other foot down.
> I have never heard the
> > expression 'to take a rise' used in either a derogatory or a
callous
> > way; only 'to take the rise', which, as I commented earlier,
means
> > 'to mock' (more or less).
>
> I have never heard the expression "to take a/the rise" (and I've
been
> an Englishwoman for as long as I can remember.)
Well, stop it at once. This is the internet; you should be
American.
--
Mark Wallace
____________________________
You want nanomachines?
I'll give you bloody nanomachines!
http://humorpages.virtualave.net/m-pages/nmaj.htm
____________________________
N.Mitchum
----
> The Sun Maid, and most California raisins, come from the Fresno area.
So do I. "Raisin Capitol of the World," they used to call my
hometown.
----
> I'm still guessing she's Swiss-Italian
>....
And I'm guessing she's nothing in particular, just a composite
invented by their ad men to sell the product.
----NM
Skitt
"N.Mitchum" <aj...@lafn.org> wrote in message news:3C23C8...@lafn.org...
> Bob Stahl wrote:
> ----
> > The Sun Maid, and most California raisins, come from the Fresno area.
> >....
>
> So do I. "Raisin Capitol of the World," they used to call my
> hometown.
They should have built a Capital, then.
Bob Stahl
>Bob Stahl:
>>The Sun Maid, and most California raisins, come from the Fresno area.
>hometown.
>composite invented by their ad men to sell the product.
http://www.sun-maid.com/ is no help at all -- but sure enough, I looked
up "red bonnet" and found this in the vast wasteland:
http://members.aol.com/jeff560/famousp.html
"Lorraine Collett Petersen, the girl pictured on boxes of Sunmaid
raisins, was from West Virginia. She was sent to San Francisco's
Panama-Pacific Exposition in 1915 to pass out raisin samples and was
visited during a break at home in Fresno by a Sun-Maid executive. Having
just curled her hair in preparation for a local Raisin Day parade, she
was wearing her own red bonnet, rather than the blue one assigned for
the Exposition. Taken by the red bonnet, the executive changed all the
girls' bonnets and invited Petersen to pose for the famous company's
trademark. As a result, Ms. Petersen also appeared in the movie, Trail
of the Lonesome Pine, did modeling, made appearances, and even had a
doll made after her. She was also an avid trout angler. The Sunmaid Girl
died at age 90 in March 1983." Another web site says that "in the
afternoons, she went up in an airplane and sprinkled raisins on the
crowds" at the Exposition.
So -- a Collett, from West Virginia. Scottish or Irish, I guess.
Damn.
---
Bob Stahl
Richard Fontana
Why assume that "Collett" was a marital surname? (This relates to
another thread.)
Richard Fontana
Whoops. Make that "Why assume that 'Petersen' was a marital surname?".
Bob Stahl
>Bob Stahl:
> > So -- a Collett, from West Virginia. Scottish or Irish, I guess.
> Why assume that "Collett" was a marital surname? (This relates to
> another thread.)
Given scant information, I figured Collett was her birth surname.
Lots of Scotch-Irish in them West Virginia hollers.
---
Bob Stahl
daniel gerard mcgrath
wrote:
>I'll try to find the recipe (food is always on-topic here, right?) in
No, not always.
--------------------------------------------------
daniel g. mcgrath
an avid subscriber to _word ways: the journal of recreational linguistics_
(<URL:http://www.wordways.com/>) and 'alt.usage.english' newsgroup
i have AUTISM -- for more information, please see
<URL:http://www.alt-usage-english.org/McGrath.html>.
John Ramsay
Richard Fontana wrote:
>
> On Thu, 20 Dec 2001 14:12:12 +0000 Nick Wedd <ni...@maproom.co.uk> wrote:
> >In article <db9bbf31.01121...@posting.google.com>, qazmlp
> ><qazml...@rediffmail.com> writes
> >>When will you use rised, rose, rosen, raised? I'm confused about these
> >
Whoever asked should check a dictionary.
'Raise' and 'rise' are two different words. Some of their forms can
sound similar, some of their meanings can almost coincide, but you won't
be as confused if you know the basic meaning of each first.
> >I never use "rised" or "rosen" in English.
> >
> >"Raise" is a transitive verb.
> >"I raise horses."
> >"I have raised some horses."
> >"I raised some horses."
> >
> >"Rise" is an intransitive verb.
> >"The cake rises."
> >"The cake has risen."
> >"The cake rose."
> >
> >A rose is also a flower.
>
> Also, an AmE "raise" (increase in an employee's salary) is a BrE "rise",
> if I'm not mistaken.
Geoff Butler
>Don Aitken wrote:
>>
> Sultanas are larger, and a
>> sort of biege color. I presume they come from read and white grapes,
>> respectively.
>
>Riddle: What's black and white and read all over?
Papyrus.
-ler
Joe Hoffman
the mother's maiden name as a middle name.
Joe
Maria
Joe Hoffman wrote
>Bob Stahl wrote:
>> Richard Fontana:
>> >Bob Stahl:
[Abracadabra! Top-posting transformed into bottom-posting.]
>> > > So -- a Collett, from West Virginia. Scottish or Irish, I
guess.
>> > Why assume that "Collett" was a marital surname? (This relates
to
>> > another thread.)
>> Given scant information, I figured Collett was her birth surname.
>> Lots of Scotch-Irish in them West Virginia hollers.
>And, in this neck of the woods, it's very common to use
>the mother's maiden name as a middle name.
And where would "this neck of the woods" be, Joe?
In the discussion here about maiden-name-as-middle-name, I'm not
sure we ever saw a geographic factor emerge. (I could be wrong about
that, though.)
Maria (Tootsie)
Joe Hoffman
I'm from Tidewater Virginia, with relatives all over the Piedmont.
My family isn't rich enough to give their children last names as first
names, but we make out all right with the middle ones.
Joe