How do you pronounce "orange," anyway?
nancy g.
I wouldn't have thought that "orange" could be one of the words
whose pronunciation can vary from place to place. I guess I was
wrong.
We downloaded a shareware game for my little one the other day.
Part of the game involves matching colors. The game has a human
voice that tells you what color you've chosen. All three of my kids
are fascinated by the way the speaker says the different color names --
she appears to have a strong midwestern (U.S.) accent, and since we're
from New England, the contrast is very obvious. The one that sets them
off in the most giggles is the word "orange."
I've always pronounced the word as if it has two distinct syllables --
or-ange. (I don't know the proper symbols to show how it's pronounced,
but the first sylable is like the "or" sound in "horrible" and the
second syllable sounds more like "inj" or maybe "enj." (I think that
upside-down letter E symbol would be appropriate here).
Anyway, the woman's voice in the computer game somehow manages to make
the word "orange" into a *ONE*-syllable word. The -ange part of it is
kind of swallowed up and it winds up sounding like "ornge" or "ornj."
Is this how it's pronounced in other parts of the country? Are we in
New England (as usual) that much "different" than the rest of you?
I'm sure I've heard this word spoken on television and never noticed the
difference, but television accents are like no other in the known world
anyway, so that doesn't give me much of a clue. My dictionary does give
it two syllables, but my question is really "is this how people actually
talk," not "is this how the dictionary says people talk;" there is a
distinction there.
Nancy G.
frazzled from trying to explain the concept
of regional accents to a six-year-old
Daan Sandee
In article <32651A...@tiac.net>, "nancy g." <nan...@tiac.net> writes:
|> I wouldn't have thought that "orange" could be one of the words
|> whose pronunciation can vary from place to place. I guess I was
|> wrong.
|> Anyway, the woman's voice in the computer game somehow manages to make
|> the word "orange" into a *ONE*-syllable word. The -ange part of it is
|> kind of swallowed up and it winds up sounding like "ornge" or "ornj."
|> Is this how it's pronounced in other parts of the country? Are we in
|> New England (as usual) that much "different" than the rest of you?
|>
|> I'm sure I've heard this word spoken on television and never noticed the
|> difference, but television accents are like no other in the known world
|> anyway, so that doesn't give me much of a clue. My dictionary does give
|> it two syllables, but my question is really "is this how people actually
|> talk," not "is this how the dictionary says people talk;" there is a
|> distinction there.
MW3NID (if I get their hieroglyphics right) allows /OrIndZ/ (orringe),
/O:rIndZ/ (oaringe), /Or@ndZ/ (orrunge), and /O:r@ndZ/ (oarunge),
but also "in rapid speech esp in pl or in compounds" /ORndZ/ (ornj).
Like you, I'd never though about it, and when thinking about a rhyme,
I naturally thought of words on "inge". Okay, now try to find a rhyme
for "ornj".
Daan Sandee
Burlington, MA san...@think.com
J.C. Dill
On 16 Oct 1996 15:23:25 GMT, san...@Think.COM (Daan Sandee) wrote:
>MW3NID (if I get their hieroglyphics right) allows /OrIndZ/ (orringe),
>/O:rIndZ/ (oaringe), /Or@ndZ/ (orrunge), and /O:r@ndZ/ (oarunge),
>but also "in rapid speech esp in pl or in compounds" /ORndZ/ (ornj).
>Like you, I'd never though about it, and when thinking about a rhyme,
>I naturally thought of words on "inge". Okay, now try to find a rhyme
>for "ornj".
Somehow I seem to remember... didn't Ogden Nash write a bawdy poem wherein he
rhymed orange? Or maybe it was Lehrer?
anyone remember?
jc
Stuart R. Leichter
> I wouldn't have thought that "orange" could be one of the words
> whose pronunciation can vary from place to place. I guess I was
> wrong.
>
Where I came from, it was pronounced something like saying the letter "R"
and adding the first three letters of "injury" as the last syllable. Where
I come from, though, we pronounce the word as one sustained syllable, much
like OR'NJ with the vowel sound close to a rower's "OAR" or iron "ORE".
The cross between the grapefruit and tangerine varies between TANgelo and
tanGELo, a hybrid of a hybrid and seedless, as the mule is part dawnkey,
donkey, or dunkey.
--
Stuart R. Leichter
Nickey Davies
> Somehow I seem to remember... didn't Ogden Nash write a bawdy poem
> wherein he rhymed orange? Or maybe it was Lehrer?
>
> anyone remember?
Arthur Guiterman did one:
In Sparkill buried lies that man of mark
Who brought the Obelisk to Central Park,
Redoubtable Commander H. H. Gorringe,
Whose name supplies the long-sought rhyme for 'orange'.
Nickey
London, England
Lee Rudolph
san...@Think.COM (Daan Sandee) writes:
>MW3NID (if I get their hieroglyphics right) allows /OrIndZ/ (orringe),
>/O:rIndZ/ (oaringe), /Or@ndZ/ (orrunge), and /O:r@ndZ/ (oarunge),
>but also "in rapid speech esp in pl or in compounds" /ORndZ/ (ornj).
>Like you, I'd never though about it, and when thinking about a rhyme,
>I naturally thought of words on "inge". Okay, now try to find a rhyme
>for "ornj".
"Orange soda", like Nehi, tastes nothing like orange juice;
Coke is non-kosher when sweetened with corn juice.
Lee Rudolph
Lee Rudolph
san...@Think.COM (Daan Sandee) writes:
>MW3NID (if I get their hieroglyphics right) allows /OrIndZ/ (orringe),
>/O:rIndZ/ (oaringe), /Or@ndZ/ (orrunge), and /O:r@ndZ/ (oarunge),
>but also "in rapid speech esp in pl or in compounds" /ORndZ/ (ornj).
>Like you, I'd never though about it, and when thinking about a rhyme,
>I naturally thought of words on "inge". Okay, now try to find a rhyme
>for "ornj".
"Orange soda", like Nehi, tastes nothing like orange juice;
Coca-Cola's non-kosher when sweetened with corn juice.
Lee Rudolph
Max Crittenden
> I've always pronounced the word as if it has two distinct syllables --
> or-ange. (I don't know the proper symbols to show how it's pronounced,
> but the first sylable is like the "or" sound in "horrible"
There's another can of worms! We don't all pronounce that word the same
way either. For me, the first syllable of "horrible" is identical to
the word "whore". How about you?
> and the
> second syllable sounds more like "inj" or maybe "enj." (I think that
> upside-down letter E symbol would be appropriate here).
>
> Anyway, the woman's voice in the computer game somehow manages to make
> the word "orange" into a *ONE*-syllable word. The -ange part of it is
> kind of swallowed up and it winds up sounding like "ornge" or "ornj."
That's how this native Californian has always said it, and so did most
of my childhood friends. I tended to look askance at my one friend who
said /'O:r@ndZ/ (arrunj).
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Max Crittenden Menlo Park, California
Manya F
In article <max_crittenden-...@128.18.80.50>, Max
Crittenden <max_cri...@qm.sri.com> writes
>In article <32651A...@tiac.net>, "nancy g." <nan...@tiac.net> wrote:
>
>> I've always pronounced the word as if it has two distinct syllables --
>> or-ange. (I don't know the proper symbols to show how it's pronounced,
>> but the first sylable is like the "or" sound in "horrible"
>
>There's another can of worms! We don't all pronounce that word the same
>way either. For me, the first syllable of "horrible" is identical to
>the word "whore". How about you?
>
of the word "hot". It's how most people I know do, in London.
If you say it to yourself that way (hot), it'll probably sound like
you've got a really good English accent. I just said it your way, and
had a very convincing American accent!!
Manya
--
Manya F
Gerry Cechony
|> Anyway, the woman's voice in the computer game somehow manages to make
|> the word "orange" into a *ONE*-syllable word. The -ange part of it is
|> kind of swallowed up and it winds up sounding like "ornge" or "ornj."
I notice that the same people who eat ORNJES also WARSH their
clothes and take trips to ORGON.
* RM 1.31 3115 *
nancy g.
Yes! Absolutely! Well, I'm not sure about the "Orgon" part (isn't that
one of the heavy metals or something, like boron?) but the "warsh" clothes
definitely sounds like the way this woman would pronounce that word.
Is that indeed a "midwestern" accent, as I've been calling it? It's kind of
hard for me to judge, since I'm from the Boston area, where we speak our
own private version of the language and where we consider the "West" to be
anywhere on the other side of Worcester. (Explanation, for those who care:
Worcester is a city about 40 miles west of Boston, which tends to mark the
dividing line between the part of the state which is mostly urban/suburban
and the rest of it, which is quite a bit more rural) ... and beyond that,
of course, the earth drops off into the void where There Be Dragons.
We Massachusetts residents are nothing if not egocentric (geocentric?).
We also have another talking computer game with the same type of accent;
in this one, the phrase "fashion dolls" comes out sounding like
"fee-ash-un dahls."
I've occasionally seen requests here for native American English speakers
to send .wav files of certain words to demonstrate how they're supposed to
be pronounced. Perhaps it might be easier for some of the linguists in the
group to listen to some of the children's shareware programs that feature
spelling and alphabet lessons, and recommend particular ones to those who
want to hear how Amerian English is spoken in different parts of the
country.
Nancy G.
been cleaning up a lot of old files and disks lately;
finding games and things I'd forgotten I had ...
Victor Engel
lrud...@panix.com (Lee Rudolph) wrote:
>"Orange soda", like Nehi, tastes nothing like orange juice;
>Coca-Cola's non-kosher when sweetened with corn juice.
>Lee Rudolph
One thing I have taken to noticing lately is whether a sound should be
repeated when it occurs at the end of one word followed immediately by
the same sound at the beginning of the next word. For example, in your
example, most people would pronounce the J sound twice. I have
noticed, though, that Larry King, who does orange juice commercials
pronounces it only once: oranjuice.
I've noticed that some such combinations are almost always, like
orange juice, pronounced separately while others, such as bird dog,
are pronounced together (my brother used to pronounce this one
separately, and the rest of our family found it humourous).
Does anybody have a rule or guideline or have noticed empirically when
one is used over the other?
-----------------------------------------------------------
Victor Engel Vector Angle
St...@The-Light.com lig...@onr.com
http://the-light.com http://www.onr.com/user/lights
Polar
On Sun, 20 Oct 1996 03:15:28 GMT, st...@the-light.com (Victor Engel)
wrote:
>lrud...@panix.com (Lee Rudolph) wrote:
>
>
>>"Orange soda", like Nehi, tastes nothing like orange juice;
>>Coca-Cola's non-kosher when sweetened with corn juice.
What's non-kosher about corn juice? Maybe you mean CC is not kosher
"for Pesach (Passover)" because of its corn content?
I have no personal interest, as I never drink or serve the stuff;
tastes like medicine. However, I understand it's good to take the
rust off metal.
Polar
>
Truly Donovan
Gerry Cechony wrote:
>
> |> Anyway, the woman's voice in the computer game somehow manages to make
> |> the word "orange" into a *ONE*-syllable word. The -ange part of it is
> |> kind of swallowed up and it winds up sounding like "ornge" or "ornj."
>
> I notice that the same people who eat ORNJES also WARSH their
> clothes and take trips to ORGON.
While I would not argue with your observations, I would offer the information
that if you came to my house you would having something new to observe.
--
Truly Donovan
"Industrial-strength SGML," Prentice Hall 1996
ISBN 0-13-216243-1
http://www.prenhall.com
Bill Bonde
Victor Engel <st...@the-light.com> wrote in article
<54c96m$i...@mari.onr.com>...
> lrud...@panix.com (Lee Rudolph) wrote:
>
>
> >"Orange soda", like Nehi, tastes nothing like orange juice;
> >Coca-Cola's non-kosher when sweetened with corn juice.
>
> >Lee Rudolph
>
> One thing I have taken to noticing lately is whether a sound should be
> repeated when it occurs at the end of one word followed immediately by
> the same sound at the beginning of the next word. For example, in your
> example, most people would pronounce the J sound twice. I have
> noticed, though, that Larry King, who does orange juice commercials
> pronounces it only once: oranjuice.
>
> I've noticed that some such combinations are almost always, like
> orange juice, pronounced separately while others, such as bird dog,
> are pronounced together (my brother used to pronounce this one
> separately, and the rest of our family found it humourous).
I haven't had a chance to test this on many people, but everyone I've
tested it on says, "bird dog" and not "birdog".
The Chocolate Lady (Davida Chazan)
I say, wasn't that s.m...@ix.netcom.com (Polar) who wrote:
>On Sun, 20 Oct 1996 03:15:28 GMT, st...@the-light.com (Victor Engel)
>wrote:
>>>"Orange soda", like Nehi, tastes nothing like orange juice;
>>>Coca-Cola's non-kosher when sweetened with corn juice.
be sold to minors and is produced in Kentucky.
>What's non-kosher about corn juice? Maybe you mean CC is not kosher
>"for Pesach (Passover)" because of its corn content?
If you are talking about corn *syrup*, on the other hand, you would be
correct in assuming that it would not be considered Kosher for
Passover.
****
De chocolate non est disputandum!
****
Kristen Maria Summers
nancy g. wrote:
>
> Gerry Cechony wrote:
>
> > I notice that the same people who eat ORNJES also WARSH their
> > clothes and take trips to ORGON.
>
> one of the heavy metals or something, like boron?) but the "warsh" clothes
> definitely sounds like the way this woman would pronounce that word.
>
> Is that indeed a "midwestern" accent, as I've been calling it?
I grew up in Chicago, and no one I knew had that particular accent.
So it isn't dominant throughout the midwest, at least. I've been
told that it's common in Minnesota; can anyone confirm this?
Kristen Summers
alan auerbach F
In Japanese, double consonants are pronounced a little differently
than single ones, even within the same word. My audio tape instructions
had to make this clear with an English example. What it came up with
was "check card."
--
Al.
Max Crittenden
In article <40.504...@channel1.com>, gerry....@channel1.com (Gerry
Cechony) wrote:
> I notice that the same people who eat ORNJES also WARSH their
> clothes and take trips to ORGON.
Because I copped to saying "ornj" in that earlier thread, I feel
a particular interest in offering myself as a counterexample to
your observation: I add no R in "wash" and elide no syllables
in "Oregon".
jb jones
Al,
looking at the consonant [p]
"pit" where [p] is aspirated
"spit" where [p] is aspirated slightly
"tip" where [p] is not aspirated at all
These are called allophones. Notice the position of your mouth when you
say them, and to help you notice the aspiration, put a piece of paper in
front of your face when you say these words. I hope this was what you
were looking for.
Jon Robert Crofoot
dav...@jdc.org.il (The Chocolate Lady (Davida Chazan))
wrote:
>
>>What's non-kosher about corn juice? Maybe you mean CC is not kosher
>>"for Pesach (Passover)" because of its corn content?
>If you are talking about corn *syrup*, on the other hand, you would be
>correct in assuming that it would not be considered Kosher for
>Passover.
>
>****
>De chocolate non est disputandum!
>****
>
For the benefit of those of us who are
Kosherly-challenged, can you tell us *why* corn syrup is
not Kosher for Passover? Is it because (A.) it is a highly
processed "food", (B.) corn is not mentioned in the Old
Testament, or (C.) something entirely different from (A)
and (B)?
If (A), is sorghum syrup or maple syrup also non-Kosher?
If (B), are other New-World foods such as chili pepper,
potato, avocado, and chocolate (No!) also non-Kosher? It's
probably (C), right?
H Andrew Chuang
In article <DzMGM...@info.uucp>,
alan auerbach F <aaue...@mach1.wlu.ca> wrote:
>In Japanese, double consonants are pronounced a little differently
>than single ones, even within the same word. My audio tape instructions
>had to make this clear with an English example. What it came up with
>was "check card."
>
>--
>Al.
This has nothing to do with how you pronounce "orange juice." The
use of double consonants in Japanese is just a Romanized representation
of the "short" vowels in Japanese (sorry, my knowledge of Japanese is very
limited, so I don't know the technical term). For example the "i" in
Nippon is shorter than the "i" in Kawasaki. In Japanese, this is
represented by a subscript "tsu."
The Chocolate Lady (Davida Chazan)
Since I got this by email, I assumed ... OK, here goes again.
I say, wasn't that Jon Robert Crofoot
<Bob.C...@postoffice.worldnet.att.net> who wrote:
> For the benefit of those of us who are
>Kosherly-challenged, can you tell us *why* corn syrup is
>not Kosher for Passover? Is it because (A.) it is a highly
>processed "food",
Nope.
>(B.) corn is not mentioned in the Old
>Testament, or
Nope.
>(C.) something entirely different from (A)
>and (B)?
Yep.
> If (A), is sorghum syrup or maple syrup also non-Kosher?
>If (B), are other New-World foods such as chili pepper,
>potato, avocado, and chocolate (No!) also non-Kosher? It's
>probably (C), right?
Heaven forbid! All vegetables are considered Kosher. It is what you
do with them that could make them not Kosher.
Regarding Passover: During this holiday it is forbidden to eat
anything that has been leavened - hence the flat unleavened Matzah we
eat. Any grains which could be processed (causing fermentation) into
a leavened item, would not be allowed. Corn is considered a grain in
this case by some Jews. In particular, for most Jews who emmigrated
to the area of Spain after the destruction of the Second Temple (vs.
Jews to emmigrated to Europe).
If this answer is still insufficient for any aue citizens, I would be
glad to answer any of your (pl) questions via email.
Steve MacGregor
H Andrew Chuang <Chu...@cris.com> wrote in article
<54ie7o$p...@herald.concentric.net>...
<<...the "i" in Nippon is shorter than the "i" in Kawasaki. In
Japanese, this is represented by a subscript "tsu.">>
Note that it's the =second= I in "Nippon" that's short, not the
first. So short, that it's not written, and the T before it
assimilates to the following H, which itself mutates to a P, making a
double P. It's still a four-syllable word.
<riddle mode off>
The word is written in Chinese characters <nichi> = "sun" and <hon> =
"origin". After the mutations described above, the four syllables left
are "ni-p-po-n". Normally, N is the only consonant that can be a
syllable by itself (sometimes pronounced as an M), but the syllables
"tsu" and "chi" sometimes collapse into this doubled consonant, while
still getting their full syllable time.
--
=======================================================
Reunite Gondwanaland!
=======================================================
Peter Moylan
Manya F (ma...@mcbrill.demon.co.uk) wrote:
>>
>I pronounce the first syllable of horrible as I do the first two letters
>of the word "hot". It's how most people I know do, in London.
>If you say it to yourself that way (hot), it'll probably sound like
>you've got a really good English accent.
Unless, of course, they happen to pronounce "hot" the
American way. (Either of the American ways; it doesn't
matter, because neither of them sounds like a British "hot".)
From my observation, the English short "o" is just about
the most difficult sound in the language for an American
to reproduce.
--
Peter Moylan pe...@ee.newcastle.edu.au
http://www.ee.newcastle.edu.au/users/staff/peter/Moylan.html
David Harmon
In article <54kg4i$j...@news.NetVision.net.il>,
The Chocolate Lady (Davida Chazan) <dav...@jdc.org.il> wrote:
> Corn is considered a grain in this case by some Jews.
Isn't "corn" a synonym for "grain"?
M. Murray
Manya F (ma...@mcbrill.demon.co.uk) wrote:
: In article <max_crittenden-...@128.18.80.50>, Max
: Crittenden <max_cri...@qm.sri.com> writes
: >In article <32651A...@tiac.net>, "nancy g." <nan...@tiac.net> wrote:
: >
: >> I've always pronounced the word as if it has two distinct syllables --
: >> or-ange. (I don't know the proper symbols to show how it's pronounced,
: >> but the first sylable is like the "or" sound in "horrible"
: >
: >There's another can of worms! We don't all pronounce that word the same
: I pronounce the first syllable of horrible as I do the first two letters
: of the word "hot". It's how most people I know do, in London.
:
: If you say it to yourself that way (hot), it'll probably sound like
: had a very convincing American accent!!
Nice try Manya, but unfortunately, if Max tries to pronounce "horrible"
starting the same as "hot" it will not sound like an English accent.
Remember that, as an American, he pronounces hot like we English
pronounce "heart", so his "horrible" would come out as "hahrrible". More
cans of worms!
--
Martin Murray :: School of Chemistry, Bristol University, BS8 1TS, England
Paul Abraham
Another case of difference in usage either side of the pond? Honestly,
I wonder we ever understand each other at all (perhaps we don't).
In the UK corn is a generic term for cereal grain (1). I believe
that in the US it means maize. To add to the confusion this
is often called sweet corn in the UK.
Or corn-on-the-cob.
Paul
(1) Perhaps for the most economically important grain of the region?
H Andrew Chuang
In article <01bbc0ee$9bdcaa20$5383...@indirect.indirect.com> Steve MacGregor (Stev...@GoodNet.Com) wrote:
> H Andrew Chuang <Chu...@cris.com> wrote in article
> <54ie7o$p...@herald.concentric.net>...
>
> <<...the "i" in Nippon is shorter than the "i" in Kawasaki. In
> Japanese, this is represented by a subscript "tsu.">>
>
> Note that it's the =second= I in "Nippon" that's short, not the
> first. So short, that it's not written, and the T before it
> assimilates to the following H, which itself mutates to a P, making a
> double P. It's still a four-syllable word.
> <riddle mode off>
> The word is written in Chinese characters <nichi> = "sun" and <hon> =
> "origin". After the mutations described above, the four syllables left
> are "ni-p-po-n". Normally, N is the only consonant that can be a
> syllable by itself (sometimes pronounced as an M), but the syllables
> "tsu" and "chi" sometimes collapse into this doubled consonant, while
> still getting their full syllable time.
>
What are you talking about? In hiragana (and my poor ascii represenation),
Nippon is
___ o /
| ____ | __|__ /_
| / ___ | _|_ / |
|/ |____ / |/ \| \ / |/
/
There are four hiragana letters, but it's definitely two syllables.
Bill Bonde
David Harmon <sou...@netcom.com> wrote in article
<sourceDz...@netcom.com>...
> In article <54kg4i$j...@news.NetVision.net.il>,
> The Chocolate Lady (Davida Chazan) <dav...@jdc.org.il> wrote:
> > Corn is considered a grain in this case by some Jews.
>
> Isn't "corn" a synonym for "grain"?
>
Only when you aren't refering to wheat, rice, and rye.
Colin Fine
In article <01bbc305$3e190320$05eb...@billb.halcyon.com>, Bill Bonde
<bi...@halcyon.com> writes
Distinguo.
"Little boy blue/Come blow on your horn/The sheep's in the meadow/The
cow's in the corn" - the cow was almost certainly in wheat, possibly in
barley or rye.
No way was it in maize.
But I agree it would be odd to refer to rice as 'corn'.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
| Colin Fine 66 High Ash, Shipley, W Yorks. BD18 1NE, UK |
| Tel: 01274 592696/0976 436109 e-mail: co...@kindness.demon.co.uk |
| "We're all in a box and the instructions for getting out |
| are on the outside" -K.B.Brown |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Bonde
Colin Fine <co...@kindness.demon.co.uk> wrote in article
<N9V6QGAL...@kindness.demon.co.uk>...
> In article <01bbc305$3e190320$05eb...@billb.halcyon.com>, Bill Bonde
> <bi...@halcyon.com> writes
> >
> >
> >David Harmon <sou...@netcom.com> wrote in article
> ><sourceDz...@netcom.com>...
> >> In article <54kg4i$j...@news.NetVision.net.il>,
> >> The Chocolate Lady (Davida Chazan) <dav...@jdc.org.il> wrote:
> >> > Corn is considered a grain in this case by some Jews.
> >>
> >> Isn't "corn" a synonym for "grain"?
> >>
> >Only when you aren't refering to wheat, rice, and rye.
>
> Distinguo.
>
> "Little boy blue/Come blow on your horn/The sheep's in the meadow/The
> cow's in the corn" - the cow was almost certainly in wheat, possibly in
> barley or rye.
> No way was it in maize.
Because there was no corn in that area? Why can't the cow be in the corn?
I've heard that expression on TV just recently. I think it was To the Manor
Born where the outsider says something like he's hoping that every things
alright and that the cow's in the corn. The person in the know says that we
really don't want the cow in the corn.
Cissy . Thorpe
On 30 Oct 1996, Bill Bonde wrote:
>
>
> > "Little boy blue/Come blow on your horn/The sheep's in the meadow/The
> > cow's in the corn" - the cow was almost certainly in wheat, possibly in
> > barley or rye.
> > No way was it in maize.
> Because there was no corn in that area? Why can't the cow be in the corn?
> I've heard that expression on TV just recently. I think it was To the Manor
> Born where the outsider says something like he's hoping that every things
> alright and that the cow's in the corn. The person in the know says that we
> really don't want the cow in the corn.
>
>
>
Something keeps niggling at the back of my brain about a mix-up in WWII
when Britian asked for assistance and the US said we would send supplies,
but no weapons or men and what would they like. They replied "corn" and
got really upset when we sent maize...they wanted barley.
I'd have to have DH find the reference (he's the historian and WWII buff
in the family) but when he refers to barley he usually says "barley corn"
- he was born and raisedin Leeds.
My 2p
Cissy
Gareth Williams
Thus spake "Bill Bonde" <bi...@halcyon.com> :
+Colin Fine <co...@kindness.demon.co.uk> wrote in article
<snip>
+> >> Isn't "corn" a synonym for "grain"?
+> "Little boy blue/Come blow on your horn/The sheep's in the meadow/The
+> cow's in the corn" - the cow was almost certainly in wheat, possibly in
+> barley or rye.
+> No way was it in maize.
+Because there was no corn in that area? Why can't the cow be in the corn?
No, he said Maize. I think the poem was written before maize was
called corn.
regards
Gareth Williams <g...@fmode.demon.co.uk>
Bill Bonde
Gareth Williams <g...@fmode.demon.co.uk> wrote in article
<3281b806...@news.demon.co.uk>...
Aren't you saying that the word 'corn' is older in English than Indian corn
is to Englishmen?
Colin Fine
In article <01bbc5f6$3b8ddc40$08eb...@billb.halcyon.com>, Bill Bonde
<bi...@halcyon.com> writes
[In response to my:]
>>
>> "Little boy blue/Come blow on your horn/The sheep's in the meadow/The
>> No way was it in maize.
On the contrary, there was certainly corn in the area, or the cow would
not have been in it. as I say, the corn in question was probably wheat,
but may have been barley or rye.
There was, however, no maize, because maize has never been a major crop
in Britain.
Cissy Thorpe said:
>Something keeps niggling at the back of my brain about a mix-up in WWII
>when Britian asked for assistance and the US said we would send
>supplies,
>but no weapons or men and what would they like. They replied "corn" and
>got really upset when we sent maize...they wanted barley.
The version I heard is that it was the French buying grain from the US
after the way: unfortunately they had learnt English rather than
American, so their bread came out yellow.
Gareth Williams said:
>No, he said Maize. I think the poem was written before maize was
>called corn.
It's possible that the rhyme predates the disovery of the New World; it
is certain that it predates the time when maize was called corn in
England, since that time has not yet come.
Bill Bonde asked:
>Aren't you saying that the word 'corn' is older in English than Indian
>corn is to Englishmen?
Yes.