Hoaming? what does it mean?
Dave Fawthrop
David <da...@dacha.freeuk.com> and I are creating a glossary for Songs of
the Ridings, by F W Moorman.
We are stuck for a translation of the word "hoamin'" which appears in "Jenny
Storm" on
http://www.hyphenologist.co.uk/songs/
and
http://www.dacha.freeuk.com/
The Shorter Oxford English Dictionary is unhelpful giving
Origin and meaning Uncertain :-((((((
What a Sea comes in......
"A hoaming sea! we shall have bad weather."
Does anyone have any idea what it means?
--
Dave Fawthrop <hyp...@hyphenologist.co.uk> <http://www.hyphenologist.co.uk>
Computer Hyphenation Ltd, Hyphen House, 8 Cooper Grove, Halifax HX3 7RF, UK,
Tel/F/A +44(0)1274 691092. M: +44(0)7720455248, *2000 15th Anniversary Year*
Hyphenologist is sold as C source code and splits 50 languages.
Also: VDU Glasses, Wordlists FAQ, Celtic Spiral Font, Bradford Curry Project
Mike Roebuck
<hyp...@hyphenologist.co.uk> wrote:
>
>The Shorter Oxford English Dictionary is unhelpful giving
>Origin and meaning Uncertain :-((((((
>What a Sea comes in......
>"A hoaming sea! we shall have bad weather."
>
>Does anyone have any idea what it means?
a typo? . foaming?
cheers
--
Mike Roebuck, Riehen, Switzerland icq#7018252
ULYGC:'53 M Y* L-- KQ+ C c++ B11 Sh11 FCYork SSWFC R(Basle)Prat5
"God did indeed come from the West Riding of Yorkshire"
(Tom Holt; Grailblazers)
Colin Blackburn
<h9nnqs4dsjktumgj7...@4ax.com>, Mike Roebuck wrote:
> On Tue, 29 Aug 2000 15:43:00 +0100, "Dave Fawthrop"
> <hyp...@hyphenologist.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
> >
> >The Shorter Oxford English Dictionary is unhelpful giving
> >Origin and meaning Uncertain :-((((((
> >What a Sea comes in......
> >"A hoaming sea! we shall have bad weather."
> >
> >Does anyone have any idea what it means?
>
> a typo? . foaming?
The OED suggests this as possible but also suggests the word as it
stands is supported elsewhere.
"[Hoaming] in Dryden has been conjectured by many to be a misprint or
error, and was altered by Scott in his 2nd. ed. (1821) to foaming..."
"...hoaming is supported by the Echard quot. (unless the expression was
merely taken from Dryden)."
"
1694 ECHARD Plautus, Rudens 164 Now 'tis such a hoaming Sea, we've
little hopes o' Sport; and except we light o' some Shell-Fish [etc.].
Colin
--
uly: '61 M Y* L- U- B(-) KQ+ C c P00F p>+ ?Sh R(OX2) N(HD3) Prat3
Oxford eavesdropping 2.
"These are books,"
US man pointing out Blackwells to his parents.
annw
friend".
AW
Colin Blackburn
<39ABEA98...@yahoo.com>, annw wrote:
> In the world of teens, rock stars, etc, a hoamie simply means, " a
> friend".
>
But isn't that 'homie' or 'homey' meaning homeboy?
Rainer Thonnes
Mike Roebuck <mi...@nospam.roebuck.ch> writes:
>On Tue, 29 Aug 2000 15:43:00 +0100, "Dave Fawthrop"
><hyp...@hyphenologist.co.uk> wrote:
>>The Shorter Oxford English Dictionary is unhelpful giving
>>Origin and meaning Uncertain :-((((((
>>What a Sea comes in......
>>"A hoaming sea! we shall have bad weather."
>>
>>Does anyone have any idea what it means?
>
>a typo? . foaming?
An early form of hohumming?
David
Colin Blackburn <phys...@ermine.ox.ac.uk> wrote:
> On Tue, 29 Aug 2000 17:56:41 +0200 in article
> <h9nnqs4dsjktumgj7...@4ax.com>, Mike Roebuck wrote:
> > On Tue, 29 Aug 2000 15:43:00 +0100, "Dave Fawthrop"
> > <hyp...@hyphenologist.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> >
> > >
> > >The Shorter Oxford English Dictionary is unhelpful giving
> > >Origin and meaning Uncertain :-((((((
> > >What a Sea comes in......
> > >"A hoaming sea! we shall have bad weather."
> > >
> > >Does anyone have any idea what it means?
> >
> > a typo? . foaming?
> The OED suggests this as possible but also suggests the word as it
> stands is supported elsewhere.
> "[Hoaming] in Dryden has been conjectured by many to be a misprint or
> error, and was altered by Scott in his 2nd. ed. (1821) to foaming..."
> "...hoaming is supported by the Echard quot. (unless the expression
> was merely taken from Dryden)." "
> 1694 ECHARD Plautus, Rudens 164 Now 'tis such a hoaming Sea, we've
> little hopes o' Sport; and except we light o' some Shell-Fish [etc.].
I don't suppose Dave will mind me mentioning here that he doesn't
discount the possibility of onomatopoesis in this case, whereas I feel
certain that it is, perhaps not quite simply, a 'homing' sea. In our
discussion on this, I have argued just for the flow tide since there
appears to be no references about an ebb tide. However, the Echard
quote does suggest a rather more fretful sea so perhaps the meaning is
rather that of a sea excited in its coming home to shore or of a sea or
tide which is vigorous enough to *bring lost objects (flotsam, jetsam,
driftwood, bodies, etc.) home* to land.
Jenny Storm is in East Riding dialect and the word 'home' is, of
course, 'heam' in that dialect. That the poem (and presumably also
E.R.) uses 'hoam' ("As t'tide cam hoamin' in."), probably pronounced
'hu-am', may indicate only that the word was at some point
misunderstood - possibly as the sound made by the 'homing' sea/tide.
--
http://www.dacha.freeuk.com/zodiac/acap-0.htm
Capricorn (December 22nd - January 20th)
Makara - the Sea Monster
Khnum (Khnoumis)
Red Valerian
<hyp...@hyphenologist.co.uk> wrote:
>
>David <da...@dacha.freeuk.com> and I are creating a glossary for Songs of
>the Ridings, by F W Moorman.
>
>We are stuck for a translation of the word "hoamin'" which appears in "Jenny
>Storm" on:
>http://www.hyphenologist.co.uk/songs/
I looked the passage up, and find that the line reads:
As t' tide cam hoamin'(1) in.
Apart from the OED reference you already cited, I haven't had any luck
on hoamin' or hoaming, but I wonder if the derivation is via holm?
NODE gives one definition of HOLM/HOLME as:
1. OE. (poet.) HOLM: billow, wave, sea
If that is the root, then hoaming/holming would mean billowing.
Red
Carl Denver
It means sea were coming in as in 'homing in' like a missile to target. Thus
sea were coming towards reader. High tide no doubt.
Red Valerian <hg...@dial.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:dotnqs46siioq7qlc...@4ax.com...
AlIen
rushing toward the shore driven by the wind and tide alike a neap tide
or a higher than usual tide the spume blown on the wave tops ?
The common factor in dialect is the broadening of a vowel sound in
this case by the introduction of the flat 'a' to make homing into
hoaming.
It fits in context.
Allen
Dave Fawthrop wrote:
>
> David <da...@dacha.freeuk.com> and I are creating a glossary for Songs of
> the Ridings, by F W Moorman.
>
> We are stuck for a translation of the word "hoamin'" which appears in "Jenny
> Storm" on
> http://www.hyphenologist.co.uk/songs/
> and
> http://www.dacha.freeuk.com/
>
> The Shorter Oxford English Dictionary is unhelpful giving
> Origin and meaning Uncertain :-((((((
> What a Sea comes in......
> "A hoaming sea! we shall have bad weather."
>
> Does anyone have any idea what it means?
>
> --
> Dave Fawthrop <hyp...@hyphenologist.co.uk> <http://www.hyphenologist.co.uk>
> Computer Hyphenation Ltd, Hyphen House, 8 Cooper Grove, Halifax HX3 7RF, UK,
> Tel/F/A +44(0)1274 691092. M: +44(0)7720455248, *2000 15th Anniversary Year*
> Hyphenologist is sold as C source code and splits 50 languages.
> Also: VDU Glasses, Wordlists FAQ, Celtic Spiral Font, Bradford Curry Project
--
Allen O__, O__,
/'._|\/______|\_/.'\
\ / /
~^~^~^~^^`~^~^~^~^~~^~^~^~^~^~^
David Kilpatrick
<hyp...@hyphenologist.co.uk> wrote:
>
> David <da...@dacha.freeuk.com> and I are creating a glossary for Songs of
> the Ridings, by F W Moorman.
>
> We are stuck for a translation of the word "hoamin'" which appears in "Jenny
> Storm" on
> http://www.hyphenologist.co.uk/songs/
> and
> http://www.dacha.freeuk.com/
>
> The Shorter Oxford English Dictionary is unhelpful giving
> Origin and meaning Uncertain :-((((((
> What a Sea comes in......
> "A hoaming sea! we shall have bad weather."
>
> Does anyone have any idea what it means?
I would suggest looking to the nearest similar words. A 'houm' or 'howm'
pronounced fairly similarly to the expected NYorks 'hoam' means a hillock,
hump or rolling landscape - 'the dowie howms o' Yarrow' being an alternative
to the 'dowie dens' and more accurate, as the Yarrow valley is dotted with
these small rounded hills (not as big as a knowe). The word is found in a
diminutive form in standard northern English today as 'hummock' which is
similar but on the kind of scale you can sit on rather than climb up.
This makes sense in the context - a sea forming a deep rolling swell. Also,
think of any better way (if this is the case) of describing exactly the kind
of sea involved. You can't say 'hilling' and 'mountainous' while often used
is more extreme. I've seen the kind of North Sea swell which looks like
rolling downs and indicates a storm further out. Just a guess.
David Kilpatrick (bullshit warning - I know nothing - I just think a lot).
Richard Fontana
> In the world of teens, rock stars, etc, a hoamie simply means, " a
> friend".
No, that's "homie", from "homeboy", which originally meant "someone from
one's home town".
Rock stars?
--
Richard
Skitt
"Richard Fontana" <re...@columbia.edu> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.4.10.100082...@konichiwa.cc.columbia.edu...
Probably the rap homies.
--
Skitt (in SF Bay Area) http://i.am/skitt/
Wayward in Hayward
David
Dave Fawthrop <hyp...@hyphenologist.co.uk> typed:
> We are stuck for a translation of the word "hoamin'" which appears in
> "Jenny Storm" on http://www.hyphenologist.co.uk/songs/ and
> http://www.dacha.freeuk.com/
> Does anyone have any idea what it means?
So far we have:
1. Moorman's original meaning of 'murmuring' - I think he didn't know
the meaning and opted for a variant of 'humming'.
2. OED suggests a possible misprint of 'foaming' in Dryden but this
requires Echard to quote Dryden. (Colin Blackburn)
3. A flow tide that is 'homing' - more forceful than usual and bringing
in various bits of rubbish. (David [me] and others)
4. Similar to N. Yorks (N. R. ?) 'houm' or 'howm', hillock, hump or
rolling landscape. (David Kilpatrick)
5. From 'holm' (or 'holme'), OE poetical, billow, wave, sea. (Red
Valerian) - what is NODE?
I would dismiss 1 & 2 immediately. From the other quotes, the sea is
doing more than 'murmuring', and the possibility of a misprint seems no
more than a let out.
4 & 5 could be the same word. 'Holm/e' (island) has various meanings
(or shades of meaning) which could be stretched to both hills and high
waves. 'Houm' 'howm' (4) could be a form of 'hough'.
--
http://www.dacha.freeuk.com/
Aliquid haeret
Red Valerian
wrote:
>5. From 'holm' (or 'holme'), OE poetical, billow, wave, sea. (Red
>Valerian) - what is NODE?
>
The edition I use is the most recent, I think - 1998, edited by
Judy Pearsall and published by the Clarenden Press, Oxford
The 'blurb' on the back say that it contains "4 million words of text"
which apparently makes it "the biggest single-volume dictionary."
It is certainly very weighty. I keep it open on an old bible stand
next to my computer and look up entries in situ, rather than trying
to pick the volume up as I would an ordinary dictionary.
The 'blurb' also claims that this edition of NODE:
"...breaks new ground in dictionary making. It represents the most
significant development in the description of English since 1884, when
the first part of the celebrated twenty-volume Oxford English
Dictionary was published."
I realise that this is in the, "they would say that, wouldn't they?"
category, but I certainly find that this edition of NODE is my
favourite and most used reference work, primarily because of the
invaluable and incredibly detailed 'usage' boxes, which give far more
detailed information on problematic usages than is normal in any
dictionary I've found, even one with the Oxford pedigree.
Red
David
Red Valerian <hg...@dial.pipex.com> chortled:
> On Wed, 30 Aug 2000 09:26:29 +0100, David <da...@dacha.freeuk.com>
> wrote:
> >5. From 'holm' (or 'holme'), OE poetical, billow, wave, sea. (Red
> >Valerian) - what is NODE?
> >
> NODE is The New Oxford Dictionary of English
[Snip very good & useful description]
Thanks. It's time I bought a new dick.
--
http://www.dacha.freeuk.com/yds/2ev-0.htm
The Yorkshire Dialect Society: Forthcoming Events
Colin Blackburn
<49f61b6...@dacha.freeuk.com>, David wrote:
> Red Valerian <hg...@dial.pipex.com> chortled:
> > NODE is The New Oxford Dictionary of English
>
> [Snip very good & useful description]
>
> Thanks. It's time I bought a new dick.
This is a good departure for OUP. Previously their dictionaries didn't
address the single large volume market which, for me, is occupied by
Chambers and, for others, by Collins and Longmans. Their COD and SOED
fell either side, the COD being too concise and the SOED not being short
enough to be convenient. I'm considering the NODE as a second dictionary
to Chambers, though Chambers still excels in the crossword world.
To bring this back on topic Chambers doesn't contain the word 'hoaming'
despite being a 'northern' dictionary.
Colin
--
uly: '61 M Y* L- U- B(-) KQ+ C c P00F p>+ ?Sh R(OX2) N(HD3) Prat3
Advertising slogans at holiday resorts 1.
"World Conservation - Save a tree, buy uPVC"
Double-glazing office in Scarborough.
Dave Fawthrop
"David" <da...@dacha.freeuk.com> wrote in message
news:49f6167...@dacha.freeuk.com...
> Knowing just how dangerous it was...
I do *far* more dangerous things than that
>
> Dave Fawthrop <hyp...@hyphenologist.co.uk> typed:
>
> > We are stuck for a translation of the word "hoamin'" which appears in
> > "Jenny Storm" on http://www.hyphenologist.co.uk/songs/ and
> > http://www.dacha.freeuk.com/
>
> > Does anyone have any idea what it means?
< Snip five IMHO unconvincing theories >
Suggest we go for: "meaning uncertain SOED"
If we blame SOED for our lack of knowledge, we can answer all posts.
"Yes you make an interesting point"
We must remember that Moorman was Professor of English Language at Leeds
University and would have had a copy of OED available. He could well have
used the word direct from OED because it fitted the poem.
--
Dave Fawthrop <da...@hyphenologist.co.uk>
Born in Hull, Live in Halifax, .......
Tez Burke
Colin Blackburn wrote in message ...
>To bring this back on topic Chambers doesn't contain the word 'hoaming'
>despite being a 'northern' dictionary.
A "northern" dictionary, Colin? Please explain! Is it something to do with
all those amazing Scottish words from Chambers that pop up in the Azed
crossword and, seemingly, nowhere else?
Tez.
David
Dave Fawthrop <hyp...@hyphenologist.co.uk> opined:
> As t' posts came hoamin' in <g>
> "David" <da...@dacha.freeuk.com> wrote in message
> news:49f6167...@dacha.freeuk.com...
> > Knowing just how dangerous it was...
> I do *far* more dangerous things than that
Gosh, Dave, you're a real dare-devil, aren't you!
> < Snip five IMHO unconvincing theories >
I think 3 and 5 are quite plausible - seductive, even.
> Suggest we go for: "meaning uncertain SOED" If we blame SOED for our
> lack of knowledge, we can answer all posts. "Yes you make an
> interesting point"
I would have four:
Murmuring (M)
Meaning uncertain (OED)
/possibly/ homing, a strong flow tide.
/possibly/ from OE poetical 'holm', billow, wave.
> We must remember that Moorman was Professor of English Language at
> Leeds University and would have had a copy of OED available. He
> could well have used the word direct from OED because it fitted the
> poem.
I doubt it. Lacking a suitable word, would he turn each page until he
found one he liked?
--
http://www.dacha.freeuk.com/
Euphemeite!
Red Valerian
<phys...@ermine.ox.ac.uk> wrote:
>........ I'm considering the NODE as a second dictionary
>to Chambers, though Chambers still excels in the crossword world.
I've got both, but in my case it's NODE I keep by my side, and
Chambers I refer to if NODE lets me down. Here's why.
I read a story on the web once titled: "Yfere." The title had a
footnote, in which the author suggested that if her readers didn't
know the meaning of the word, a dictionary would have to be consulted
because she wasn't going to tell them.
Now as it happens, I do know the meaning of 'yfere', but only because
I frequently read Middle English texts. I wrote to the author and
said that I thought it was rather unkind expecting the average reader
to have a Middle English dictionary to hand, which was the only way
they were going to be able to find out the meaning of her title.
She wrote back and said, "They should buy a Chambers. It's in there."
I trotted off to my local book shop to check, and sure enough I found
'yfere' in the latest Chambers, so I bought it on the spot - despite
its containing 100,000 fewer definitions than NODE. (The latter
didn't have yfere, so I felt I had to have the Chambers too.)
So why do I still prefer NODE to Chambers? Look how the two
dictionaries handle definitions of the problematic adverb
'hopefully.'
Chambers (1999 edition) says:
"adv hopefully in a hopeful manner; if all goes well (colloq)"
That's it.
Now look at what NODE has to say on the subject:
hopefully adverb 1 in a hopeful manner: he rode on hopefully
2 (sentence adverb) it is to be hoped that: hopefully it should be
finished by next year.
USAGE The traditional sense of hopefully, 'in a hopeful manner', has
been used since the 17th century. In the second half of the 20th
century a new use as a sentence adverb arose, meaning 'it is to be
hope that', as in hopefully we'll see you tomorrow. This second use is
now much commoner than the first use, accounting for more than 90
percent of citations for hopefully in the British National Corpus. It
is, however, widely believed to be incorrect. Why should this be?
People do not criticize other sentence adverbs , e.g. sadly (as in
sadly, her father died last year) or fortunately (as in fortunately,
he recovered.) Part of the reason is that hopefully is a rather odd
sentence adverb: while many others, such as sadly, regrettably and
clearly, may be paraphrased as 'it is sad/regrettable/clear that....',
this is not possible with hopefully. Nevertheless, it is clear that
use of hopefully has become a shibboleth of 'correctness' in the
language in the late 20th century - even if the arguments on which
this is based are not particularly strong - and it is wise to be aware
of this in formal or written contexts."
It's entries like that one which make me keep NODE always by my
side, and Chambers on the shelf.
Red
Colin Blackburn
<t0lqqs8s1el139f5v...@4ax.com>, Red Valerian wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Aug 2000 11:21:20 +0100, Colin Blackburn
> <phys...@ermine.ox.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> >........ I'm considering the NODE as a second dictionary
> >to Chambers, though Chambers still excels in the crossword world.
>
> I've got both, but in my case it's NODE I keep by my side, and
> Chambers I refer to if NODE lets me down. Here's why.
> side, and Chambers on the shelf.
Fair point and one that suggests I look at NODE soon. However, as I say
my chief purpose for Chambers is the crossword. The Listener, Azed and
most other tough cryptics are based on the words therein.
A reasonto buy Chambers? Take a look at the definitions to eclair and
middle-aged.
Colin Blackburn
Er, yes. Although Chambers is a Scottish dictionary it seems to have a
preponderence of 'north British' words which means Yorkshire,
Lancashire, Cumbria and Northumbria get more representation than they
might in other dictionaries.
Red Valerian
<phys...@ermine.ox.ac.uk> wrote:
>A reasonto buy Chambers? Take a look at the definitions to eclair and
>middle-aged.
>
>Colin
Oh my word - a dictionary with a sense of humour!
Thank you so much for the pointers. Now I'm going to have to spend
the rest of the day scouring Chambers other witty definitions.
Red
George van den Driessche
dictionary with a sense of humour!
>
> Thank you so much for the pointers. Now I'm going to have to spend
> the rest of the day scouring Chambers other witty definitions.
Look up "Sloane Ranger". It's fabulous!
--
George van den Driessche
Colin Blackburn
<r6bsqssdr4n64dfca...@4ax.com>, Red Valerian wrote:
> On Thu, 31 Aug 2000 10:33:39 +0100, Colin Blackburn
> <phys...@ermine.ox.ac.uk> wrote:
> >A reasonto buy Chambers? Take a look at the definitions to eclair and
> >middle-aged.
> >
> >Colin
>
>
> Thank you so much for the pointers. Now I'm going to have to spend
> the rest of the day scouring Chambers other witty definitions.
It used to have many more and still does have more than I know of, each
edition seems to have removed some of the wittier definitions. There
used to be a list of the comedic entries but whether it exists on the
web I do not know.
Now, Encarta is a joke in itself, right?
Red Valerian
<phys...@ermine.ox.ac.uk> wrote:
>On Thu, 31 Aug 2000 11:03:35 +0100 in article
><r6bsqssdr4n64dfca...@4ax.com>, Red Valerian wrote:
>> On Thu, 31 Aug 2000 10:33:39 +0100, Colin Blackburn
>> <phys...@ermine.ox.ac.uk> wrote:
>> >A reasonto buy Chambers? Take a look at the definitions to eclair and
>> >middle-aged.
>> >
>> >Colin
>>
>> Oh my word - a dictionary with a sense of humour!
>>
>> Thank you so much for the pointers. Now I'm going to have to spend
>> the rest of the day scouring Chambers other witty definitions.
>
>It used to have many more and still does have more than I know of, each
>edition seems to have removed some of the wittier definitions. There
>used to be a list of the comedic entries but whether it exists on the
>web I do not know.
I found some listed on this page:
http://wwwkenya.freeuk.com/dharrison/puzzles/chambers.htm
middle-aged - 'between youth and old age, variously reckoned to suit
the reckoner'
charity begins at home - 'usually an excuse for not allowing it to get
abroad'
kazoo - 'a would-be musical instrument'
jay walker - 'a contemptuous word applied to careless pedestrians by
motorists who have to avoid running them down'
Land o' the Leal - 'the home of the blessed after death - heaven not
Scotland'
sea-serpent - 'an enormous marine animal of serpent-like form,
frequently seen and described by credulous sailors, imaginative
landsmen and common liars'
noose - 'a snare or bond generally, especially hanging or marriage'
end-reader - 'one who peeps at the end of a novel to see if she got
him'
double-locked - 'locked by two turns of the key, as in very few locks,
but many novels'
ghost word - 'a word that has originated in the blunder of a scribe or
printer - common in dictionaries'
Red
Colin Blackburn
<bsesqsg6a8a98hoi0...@4ax.com>, Red Valerian wrote:
> I found some listed on this page:
> http://wwwkenya.freeuk.com/dharrison/puzzles/chambers.htm
Cheers, though I note that not all of these are in Chamber 1993, the
edition I have to hand at work, the link further down this page lists
more and has some from the horse's mouth, so to speak.
hannah d
>
> A reasonto buy Chambers? Take a look at the definitions to eclair and
> middle-aged.
>
any chance of letting those of us without Chambers know these?
cheers,
..h
--
ULYGK: '73 F Y--- L+ U++++ KQ+ C* c+ B++ P00C p+ Sh R(LS8)
Remember - any fool can get a stupid dog to yap.
Colin Blackburn
<slrn8qsfe5...@cslin-gps.scs>, hannah d wrote:
> Colin Blackburn <phys...@ermine.ox.ac.uk> said:
>
> >
> > A reasonto buy Chambers? Take a look at the definitions to eclair and
> > middle-aged.
> >
>
> any chance of letting those of us without Chambers know these?
Off the top of my head,
eclair: a confection, long in length but short in duration.
middle-age: between youth and old age, variously reckoned to suit the
reckoner.
The website refered to elsewhere has more.
Red Valerian
(hannah d) wrote:
>Colin Blackburn <phys...@ermine.ox.ac.uk> said:
>
>>
>> A reasonto buy Chambers? Take a look at the definitions to eclair and
>> middle-aged.
>>
>
>any chance of letting those of us without Chambers know these?
>
>cheers,
>
>..h
There's a list of them here. Although not all of these are in the 1998
edition, many of them still are:
The eclair one is apparently very famous. I'm ashamed that I'd never
heard it before today. "A cake, long in shape but short in duration,
with cream filling and usu chocolate icing."
The others are here:
http://wwwkenya.freeuk.com/dharrison/puzzles/chambers.htm
At the bottom of the page, pointers, minus definitions, are given to
a few more. My fave of these is perpetrate: to commit or execute (esp
an offence, a poem, or a pun)
The Sloane Ranger definition cited by another poster, is painfully
accurate:
a young person, typically upper- or upper-middle-class and female,
favouring expensively casual clothing suggestive of rural pursuits,
speaking in distinctively clipped tones, evincing certain predictable
enthusiasms and prejudices and resident (during the week) in the
Sloane Square area of London or a comparable part.
Red
Red Valerian
wrote:
>
>At the bottom of the page, pointers, minus definitions, are given to
>a few more. My fave of these is perpetrate: to commit or execute (esp
>an offence, a poem, or a pun)
>
Sorry - I meant to add that there is also a link to a comprehensive
list humorous definitions, from earlier editions. Many of these are
quoted. They can be found here:
http://wwwkenya.freeuk.com/dharrison/puzzles/chambrs2.htm
Red
Dr Drew
> On Thu, 31 Aug 2000 12:04:46 +0100 in article
> <bsesqsg6a8a98hoi0...@4ax.com>, Red Valerian wrote:
>
> > I found some listed on this page:
> > http://wwwkenya.freeuk.com/dharrison/puzzles/chambers.htm
>
> Cheers, though I note that not all of these are in Chamber 1993, the
> edition I have to hand at work, the link further down this page lists
> more and has some from the horse's mouth, so to speak.
>
> Colin
Didn't Dr. Johnson himself come up with a fair few classics?
Lexicographer, for instance - which ISTR being something like "a
compiler of words, a harmless drudge..."
--
"The argument which states that because one alternative failed, all
possible alternatives will likewise fail, is used only by the stupid"
http://surf.to/drews.site
Real e-mail address: polaw{little snail}leeds.ac.uk
James Silverton
>
> On Wed, 30 Aug 2000 20:01:32 +0100 in article
> <t0lqqs8s1el139f5v...@4ax.com>, Red Valerian wrote:
> > <phys...@ermine.ox.ac.uk> wrote:
> >
> > >........ I'm considering the NODE as a second dictionary
> > >to Chambers, though Chambers still excels in the crossword world.
> >
> > I've got both, but in my case it's NODE I keep by my side, and
> > Chambers I refer to if NODE lets me down. Here's why.
> [...]
> > It's entries like that one which make me keep NODE always by my
> > side, and Chambers on the shelf.
>
> Fair point and one that suggests I look at NODE soon. However, as I say
> my chief purpose for Chambers is the crossword. The Listener, Azed and
> most other tough cryptics are based on the words therein.
>
> middle-aged.
>
>
Fair enough but I use Chambers first since it seems to give a reasonable
coverage of both British (including Scottish) and American usages. You
might like to look up the definition of "petting party" and the
derivation of "America " too!
Jim.
--
James V. Silverton
Potomac, Maryland.
Chris Ryall
>2. OED suggests a possible misprint of 'foaming' in Dryden but this
>requires Echard to quote Dryden. (Colin Blackburn)
I have always favoured the cockup theory of history myself.
From Red Valerian <hg...@dial.pipex.com> ..
>ghost word - 'a word that has originated in the blunder of a scribe or
>printer - common in dictionaries'
Hoam and dry?
--
Chris Ryall Birkenhead UK
Gustave F. Kilthau
Dave Fawthrop wrote:
>
> David <da...@dacha.freeuk.com> and I are creating a glossary for Songs of
> the Ridings, by F W Moorman.
>
> We are stuck for a translation of the word "hoamin'" which appears in "Jenny
> Storm" on
> http://www.hyphenologist.co.uk/songs/
> and
> http://www.dacha.freeuk.com/
>
> The Shorter Oxford English Dictionary is unhelpful giving
> Origin and meaning Uncertain :-((((((
> What a Sea comes in......
> "A hoaming sea! we shall have bad weather."
>
> Does anyone have any idea what it means?
>
> --
> Dave Fawthrop <hyp...@hyphenologist.co.uk> <http://www.hyphenologist.co.uk>
> Computer Hyphenation Ltd, Hyphen House, 8 Cooper Grove, Halifax HX3 7RF, UK,
> Tel/F/A +44(0)1274 691092. M: +44(0)7720455248, *2000 15th Anniversary Year*
> Hyphenologist is sold as C source code and splits 50 languages.
> Also: VDU Glasses, Wordlists FAQ, Celtic Spiral Font, Bradford Curry Project
Hello David... Howdy All Others...
My goodness, people. You all seem to have tackled David's
question about "hoamin" like a flock of sidehill goats...
around and around the hill to get to the top, for one side
of legs is shorter than the other such that there is
absolutely no leaning! Looking at David's kindly placed URL
for "Jenny
Storm," we can click right on it and actually arrive at that
nifty poem. The producers of this poetry collection have
placed one of those little "look at my definition" reference
guide numbers by some of the words, among which is "hoamin
(1)." They seem to believe that "hoamin" means " (1)
murmuring," [as in "humming" perhaps? {sounds about right to
me, troops!}].
Yorkshire dialect, if that is what some of this poetry is
composed, is akin to the Norse, Danish, German, etc.
languages of days past. I did find some reference to
"hoaming" in the modern German; however it was used in the
sense of homing beacons. I don't think that is what the
author of the Jenny deal meant - "homing." Why not? Tides
go in two directions, in and out. On an "in" course, all
tides are "homing" (and, in deference to some respondents to
David's question, many come in fast enough to be foaming)
good weather arriving or foul).
Is there some reason that the producers of Davids reference
work must be in error?
Best to all... and don't lean until you reach the top.
Gus Kilthau
gushi...@mailcity.com
David
Gustave F. Kilthau <gkil...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Dave Fawthrop wrote:
> >
> > We are stuck for a translation of the word "hoamin'" which appears
> > in "Jenny Storm" on http://www.hyphenologist.co.uk/songs/ and
> > http://www.dacha.freeuk.com/
> >
> Hello David... Howdy All Others...
[Snip]
> Yorkshire dialect, if that is what some of this poetry is
> composed, is akin to the Norse, Danish, German, etc.
> languages of days past. I did find some reference to
> "hoaming" in the modern German; however it was used in the
> sense of homing beacons. I don't think that is what the
> author of the Jenny deal meant - "homing." Why not? Tides
> go in two directions, in and out. On an "in" course, all
> tides are "homing" (and, in deference to some respondents to
> David's question, many come in fast enough to be foaming)
> good weather arriving or foul).
> Is there some reason that the producers of Davids reference
> work must be in error?
The meaning 'murmuring' is that given by Professor Moorman in his
footnotes to the poems. (These are far too sparse for today's
readership and so we are in the process of adding to them.)
The very few references we have for the word "hoamin'" suggest a
meaning other than just 'murmuring'. I don't think Moorman knew or
understood the word but did like its sound. In all cases, an incoming
tide of some vigour is suggested.
I believe it most unlikely that we shall ever know the meaning and
derivation with any certainty but that shouldn't prevent us trying to
help the reader of the poem as best we can.
--
http://www.dacha.freeuk.com/zodiac/7lib-0.htm
Libra (September 24th - October 23rd)
Images, Associations, Qualities, Careers, Health
Dave Fawthrop
"David" <da...@dacha.freeuk.com> wrote in message
news:49f7188...@dacha.freeuk.com...
> Begin - at the beginning...
>
>
> > Dave Fawthrop wrote:
> > >
> > > We are stuck for a translation of the word "hoamin'" which appears
> > > in "Jenny Storm" on http://www.hyphenologist.co.uk/songs/ and
> > > http://www.dacha.freeuk.com/
> > >
>
> I believe it most unlikely that we shall ever know the meaning and
> derivation with any certainty but that shouldn't prevent us trying to
> help the reader of the poem as best we can.
David and I have been having a friendly discussion on this for some time.
For myself I believe as we do not know the meaning we should say just that.
However the version with pointers is done by David and on David's site and I
put all my work in the Public Domain.
Stephen Toogood
>On Thu, 31 Aug 2000 10:33:39 +0100, Colin Blackburn
><phys...@ermine.ox.ac.uk> wrote:
>>A reasonto buy Chambers? Take a look at the definitions to eclair and
>>middle-aged.
>>
>
>Oh my word - a dictionary with a sense of humour!
>
>Thank you so much for the pointers. Now I'm going to have to spend
>the rest of the day scouring Chambers other witty definitions.
>
only a couple of days to go...
A good deal of the idiosyncratic in Chambers was expunged after the
retirement of William Geddie, and I'm really glad that at least these
two gave got through. I hope the new editors aren't reading this.
I like my old (1959 edition) Chambers because you can feel the spirit of
Dr. Johnson coming through: less rigorous, but more entertaining. My
favourite definition (now perished) I have aired in this NG before. It's
not just Scots, but Presbyterian:
Luncheon: a restaurateur's term for the plain man's dinner.
--
Stephen Toogood
fred
<8oo31k$osl$1...@plutonium.compulink.co.uk>
hyp...@hyphenologist.co.uk "Dave Fawthrop" wrote:
> For myself I believe as we do not know the meaning we should say just that.
>
> However the version with pointers is done by David and on David's site and I
> put all my work in the Public Domain.
I found the word "hoam" in a Scottish dictionary today, it means to
spoil with damp or steam, something which is "hoamed" is damp and musty.
I checked every dictionary in the bookshop and that was the only hoam
I could find.
--
ô
õçîd
Aaron J Dinkin
> Now look at what NODE has to say on the subject:
>
> hopefully adverb 1 in a hopeful manner: he rode on hopefully
> 2 (sentence adverb) it is to be hoped that: hopefully it should be
> finished by next year.
>
> USAGE The traditional sense of hopefully, 'in a hopeful manner', has
> been used since the 17th century. In the second half of the 20th
> century a new use as a sentence adverb arose, meaning 'it is to be
> hope that', as in hopefully we'll see you tomorrow.
<snip>
I'm not sure what they mean by "arose", but I hope it isn't 'originated' -
Oxford should know that, since it's in OED that a citation from 1932 is
given (from the _New York Times Book Review_, of all places). OED also
adds, "Cf. G[erman] 'hoffentlich' it is to be hoped."
-Aaron J. Dinkin
Dr. Whom
David
Dave Fawthrop <hyp...@hyphenologist.co.uk> crowed:
> "David" <da...@dacha.freeuk.com> wrote in message
> news:49f7188...@dacha.freeuk.com...
> > Begin - at the beginning...
> >
> >
> > > Dave Fawthrop wrote:
> > > >
> > > > We are stuck for a translation of the word "hoamin'" which
> > > > appears in "Jenny Storm" on
> > > > http://www.hyphenologist.co.uk/songs/ and
> > > > http://www.dacha.freeuk.com/
> > > >
> >
> > I believe it most unlikely that we shall ever know the meaning and
> > derivation with any certainty but that shouldn't prevent us trying
> > to help the reader of the poem as best we can.
> David and I have been having a friendly discussion on this for some
> time.
Two minds, three opinions.
> For myself I believe as we do not know the meaning we should say just
> that.
Offer the reader the meagre fruits of our researches if they are
reasonably possible sources of the word.
> However the version with pointers is done by David and on David's
> site and I put all my work in the Public Domain.
I'd like to think of it as a joint effort for the benefit of
generations as yet unborn who would be so much the poorer for no
understanding of Yorkshire Dialect. I see them now, making their yearly
pilgrimages to our monuments somewhere up Yordale or anent the moorland
crosses....
--
http://www.dacha.freeuk.com/
Gnothi seauton
David
fred <fr...@fredc.demon.co.uk> implied:
> On Friday, in article
> <8oo31k$osl$1...@plutonium.compulink.co.uk>
> hyp...@hyphenologist.co.uk "Dave Fawthrop" wrote:
> > For myself I believe as we do not know the meaning we should say
> > just that.
> >
> > However the version with pointers is done by David and on David's
> > site and I put all my work in the Public Domain.
> I found the word "hoam" in a Scottish dictionary today, it means to
> spoil with damp or steam, something which is "hoamed" is damp and
> musty.
Eek!
I could force a meaning from that but it sounds most unlikely.
> I checked every dictionary in the bookshop and that was the only hoam
> I could find.
Thanks.
--
http://www.dacha.freeuk.com/zodiac/6vir-0.htm
Virgo (August 24th - September 23rd)
Brian Smith
wrote:
>> >
>
>> > I believe it most unlikely that we shall ever know the meaning and
>> > derivation with any certainty but that shouldn't prevent us trying
>> > to help the reader of the poem as best we can.
>
>
I've been folowing this with great interest
and come to the conclusion that "hoaming"
is what you think when you look at the sea and try to
describe it to yourself.
Cynic is an idealists name for a realist.
35MY*L--CB-S(Bantams)R YYZ
David
Brian Smith <bzsmit...@idirect.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 01 Sep 2000 20:50:42 +0100, David <da...@dacha.freeuk.com>
> wrote:
> >> >
> >
> >> > I believe it most unlikely that we shall ever know the meaning
> >> > and derivation with any certainty but that shouldn't prevent us
> >> > trying to help the reader of the poem as best we can.
> >
> >
> I've been folowing this with great interest
> and come to the conclusion that "hoaming"
> is what you think when you look at the sea and try to
> describe it to yourself.
Sort of like, "The Don Hoams Sea to the Flow", d'ye mean?
> Cynic is an idealists name for a realist.
Down, Rover!
--
http://www.dacha.freeuk.com/zodiac/1ari-0.htm
Aries (March 21st - April 20th)
Graeme Thomas
<ste...@stenches.nospam.demon.co.uk> writes
>A good deal of the idiosyncratic in Chambers was expunged after the
>retirement of William Geddie, and I'm really glad that at least these
>two gave got through. I hope the new editors aren't reading this.
Many of the funny definitions were removed under the editorship of Betty
Kirkpatrick. She seemed a jolly enough person to meet, but the
dictionary suffered.
Catherine Schwarz brought back many of the true gems. She is a very
nice person, with a great sense of humour.
The current editor, Elaine Higgleton, hasn't impressed me with her sense
of humour, but then I've only met her under trying circumstances.
--
Graeme Thomas
bogus address
> A good deal of the idiosyncratic in Chambers was expunged after the
> retirement of William Geddie, and I'm really glad that at least these
> two gave got through. I hope the new editors aren't reading this.
I'm reading this on uk.music.folk and I was scanning Chambers' dictionary
for *singable* entries. I once got away with opening volume 1 of Marx's
"Capital" at random and singing it as a blues, and I can sorta imagine
some sections of Roget's Thesaurus having musical possibilities, but this
one has got me beat. Any nominations?
========> Email to "jc" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce. <========
Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760
http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/purrhome.html food intolerance data and recipes,
freeware logic fonts for the Macintosh, and Scots traditional music resources
David
bogus address <bo...@purr.demon.co.uk> chortled:
> > A good deal of the idiosyncratic in Chambers was expunged after the
> > retirement of William Geddie, and I'm really glad that at least
> > these two gave got through. I hope the new editors aren't reading
> > this.
> I'm reading this on uk.music.folk and I was scanning Chambers'
> dictionary for *singable* entries. I once got away with opening
> volume 1 of Marx's "Capital" at random and singing it as a blues, and
> I can sorta imagine some sections of Roget's Thesaurus having musical
> possibilities, but this one has got me beat. Any nominations?
Try 'soul', esp just after '(colloq);'
HTH :-)
--
http://www.dacha.freeuk.com/zodiac/baqu-0.htm
Aquarius (January 21st - February 19th)
Chris Boyd
:
: I'm reading this on uk.music.folk and I was scanning Chambers' dictionary
: for *singable* entries. I once got away with opening volume 1 of Marx's
: "Capital" at random and singing it as a blues, and I can sorta imagine
: some sections of Roget's Thesaurus having musical possibilities, but this
: one has got me beat. Any nominations?
Definitions of Essex Man (and Essex Girl) could make a good rap.
--
I got those looking "middle-aged" up in Chambers dictionary blues...