I am humbled by this great honour

[Dutch]

I have always found this frequently heard usage to be counter-intuitive,
and frankly, disingenuous. I would be interested to read what others
think. Can one truly be humbled by recognition for one's success? In
what sense? I can see a losing candidate honestly being humbled by his
failure, but the winner? I've read discussions of this use but I have
yet to see an explanation that satisfies me.

[Katy Jennison]

(It helps if you also include the central theme of your post in the body
and not just in the header. Not everyone reads the headers.)

Interesting question.

My sense of it is that it's the not-uncommon feeling of "Wow! I did it!
Me! Me, whose teachers always said wouldn't come to anything! Me, up
there with the Big Guys!" It's not that one feels more humble than
before, but that the success doesn't accord with one's previous
relatively-humble opinion of oneself: the success brings it into focus.

--
Katy Jennison

[Lanarcam]

I agree with that: if only they knew how miserable I am in reality...

Everyone has his own failures, we do our best to hide them, but the
self does know.

[Jerry Friedman]

I suspect there's a continuuum from "I know I don't deserve this"--or if
the honor is getting a responsible position, "I doubt I can handle
this"--through "I'd better remind myself not to get a swelled head" to
"I'm extremely proud of this well-deserved recognition and this is a
desperate attempt not to let it show."

--
Jerry Friedman

[Frank S]

"Lanarcam" <lana...@yahoo.fr> wrote in message
news:53a4a4bb$0$2033$426a...@news.free.fr...

I am humbled by the apprehension of expectations or esteem accorded me
by some evaluation by a body whose status humbled me previous to the
award. Bye bye humility.

--
Frank ess

[Jennifer Murphy]

On Fri, 20 Jun 2014 15:50:23 -0600, Jerry Friedman
<jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On 6/20/14 3:16 PM, Lanarcam wrote:

>> Le 20/06/2014 23:00, Katy Jennison a �crit :

That's a good summary of the good end of the honorableness spectrum. On
the other end, there is a group that includes almost all talk show hosts
and top tier actors, most politicians, most professional athletes, the
majority of doctors, professors, and the clergy, and those with the
milder forms of narcissistic personality disorder (NPD). For that group,
it's pure affectation. ;-)

[Katy Jennison]

Some of us also wonder when we'll get found out.

--
Katy Jennison

[Steve Hayes]

I've always taken it to mean that the recipient of the honour doesn't feel
wothy of it, or at least wants other people to think that he doesn't, which
would be a kind of false humility.


--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

[Pablo]

Katy Jennison wrote:

> (It helps if you also include the central theme of your post in the body
> and not just in the header. Not everyone reads the headers.)

If you don't read the header, how do you know what interests you? Or do you
use a 17th century newsreader that doesn't download headers before content?

<Baffled>

--

Pablo

http://www.ipernity.com/home/313627
http://paulc.es/

[Katy Jennison]

On 21/06/2014 04:11, Steve Hayes wrote:
> On Fri, 20 Jun 2014 12:33:04 -0700, Dutch <n...@email.com> wrote:
>
>> I have always found this frequently heard usage to be counter-intuitive,
>> and frankly, disingenuous. I would be interested to read what others
>> think. Can one truly be humbled by recognition for one's success? In
>> what sense? I can see a losing candidate honestly being humbled by his
>> failure, but the winner? I've read discussions of this use but I have
>> yet to see an explanation that satisfies me.
>
> I've always taken it to mean that the recipient of the honour doesn't feel
> wothy of it, or at least wants other people to think that he doesn't, which
> would be a kind of false humility.
>

The complete opposite to this was demonstrated by a six-year-old who's
in the local paper this week for having donated bone marrow to his
five-year-old brother. He told the reporter: "I wanted to stop my
brother being sick,so I gave him my immune system. I was a bit scared
but I was quite brave and now I feel like a superhero."

It's a pity that one can only be that honest when one's six.

--
Katy Jennison

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

Pablo skrev:

> If you don't read the header, how do you know what interests
> you? Or do you use a 17th century newsreader that doesn't
> download headers before content?

I seldom read the subject lines.

Every aspect of the English language interests me. Likewise in
other groups. It's only when I discover that I am reading some
nonsense that I may glance at the subject line and find that I
have opened a spam message.

I navigate by pressing N which takes me to the next unread
message and skips to the next group if necessary.

My newsreader allows me to navigate in whichever fashion that
takes my fancy.

--
bertel.lundhansen.dk fiduso.dk obese.dk

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

Bertel Lund Hansen skrev:

> I seldom read the subject lines.

And I forgot an important aspect:

Quoting the subject line is a pain in the ass.

--
bertel.lundhansen.dk fiduso.dk obese.dk

[Tony Cooper]

On Sat, 21 Jun 2014 10:47:45 +0200, Pablo <no...@nowhere.net> wrote:

>Katy Jennison wrote:
>
>> (It helps if you also include the central theme of your post in the body
>> and not just in the header. Not everyone reads the headers.)
>
>If you don't read the header, how do you know what interests you? Or do you
>use a 17th century newsreader that doesn't download headers before content?
>
><Baffled>

I don't notice the headers. My screen shows the headers in a narrow
panel at the top, but most of the screen is the message panel. I
click "Next unread message" after reading a post. I'll read the next
post without noticing the header. I may glance up at it to see who
wrote the post, but I don't pay attention to the Subject line.

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando FL

[Steve Hayes]

Yes, he might have learnt to be a lot more cautious when he's 46.

[Peter Moylan]

On 21/06/14 18:47, Pablo wrote:
> Katy Jennison wrote:
>
>> (It helps if you also include the central theme of your post in the body
>> and not just in the header. Not everyone reads the headers.)
>
> If you don't read the header, how do you know what interests you? Or do you
> use a 17th century newsreader that doesn't download headers before content?
>
> <Baffled>
>

I find that I can get through the messages quickly by looking at every
article (briefly) and never looking at the header list. If I had to sort
by header it would take me a lot longer to get through the list. (In
fact, I don't know how to do that without using a mouse, and anything
that requires a mouse click will definitely slow down my reading of the
group.) It's a whole lot easier to keep hitting the space bar and
skimming the content.

Besides, thread drift usually means that the Subject lines aren't a good
indicator of what will be worth reading.

--
Peter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org
For an e-mail address, see my web page.

[Peter Moylan]

On 21/06/14 05:33, Dutch wrote:
> I have always found this frequently heard usage

Which frequently heard usage? Oh, I see that Katy has explained.

> to be counter-intuitive,
> and frankly, disingenuous. I would be interested to read what others
> think. Can one truly be humbled by recognition for one's success? In
> what sense? I can see a losing candidate honestly being humbled by his
> failure, but the winner? I've read discussions of this use but I have
> yet to see an explanation that satisfies me.

I'd like to add one more point to what others have said.

It's a well-known phenomenon that incompetents and low achievers tend to
overestimate their own abilities, while high achievers underestimate.
Thus, it can well happen that the people being honoured don't realise
that they deserve it. Statements like "Really, I don't deserve this" are
often sincere.

[Dutch]

Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 21/06/14 05:33, Dutch wrote:
>> I have always found this frequently heard usage
>
> Which frequently heard usage? Oh, I see that Katy has explained.

It appeared in the subject line. In future I will repeat it in the
message body, sorry about the faux pas.

>> to be counter-intuitive,
>> and frankly, disingenuous. I would be interested to read what others
>> think. Can one truly be humbled by recognition for one's success? In
>> what sense? I can see a losing candidate honestly being humbled by his
>> failure, but the winner? I've read discussions of this use but I have
>> yet to see an explanation that satisfies me.
>
> I'd like to add one more point to what others have said.
>
> It's a well-known phenomenon that incompetents and low achievers tend to
> overestimate their own abilities, while high achievers underestimate.
> Thus, it can well happen that the people being honoured don't realise
> that they deserve it. Statements like "Really, I don't deserve this" are
> often sincere.

I get, "I don't deserve this", certainly, yet the phrase, "I am humbled
by this great honour" is still difficult to rationalize logically. One
ought to be humbled by failure, not success. If an actor was
acknowledging an award for the worst performance in a motion picture, a
"Razzi" I think they're called, then it would make perfect sense for him
to say that he was humbled. It would be consistent with the literal
meaning of being "humbled" which is to be made to feel less proud of
one's abilities. Yet the opposite is the case. When I am complimented
for doing well in one of the few areas I excel, I feel pride,
gratification. In no way do I feel less proud of my abilities in that area.

It seems that most people have simply accepted this odd usage as normal
without questioning it. I suppose soon the dictionary will list this as
a valid meaning for the word, as if the English language wasn't
confusing enough..

[Guy Barry]

"Dutch" wrote in message news:o20pv.35888$vf1....@fx06.iad...

I don't think this is entirely a usage question. Some people get genuinely
embarrassed by recognition that they don't feel they deserve, so the term is
entirely apt in their case. As others have suggested in the thread, though,
there may be an element of mock-humility in many cases (like acceptance
speeches at the Oscars).

--
Guy Barry

[Guy Barry]

"Katy Jennison" wrote in message news:lo27cs$k0m$1...@news.albasani.net...

>
>On 20/06/2014 20:33, Dutch wrote:
>> I have always found this frequently heard usage to be counter-intuitive,
>> and frankly, disingenuous. I would be interested to read what others
>> think. Can one truly be humbled by recognition for one's success? In
>> what sense? I can see a losing candidate honestly being humbled by his
>> failure, but the winner? I've read discussions of this use but I have
>> yet to see an explanation that satisfies me.
>
>(It helps if you also include the central theme of your post in the body
>and not just in the header. Not everyone reads the headers.)

I currently have 861 posts to catch up on. The only way I can sensibly do
so is by looking at the headers and trying to glean whether it's likely to
be an interesting thread. I am no longer in a position where I'm able to
read all the messages (which I'm sure some people will be delighted about).

--
Guy Barry

[Guy Barry]

"Pablo" wrote in message news:c0kv5h...@mid.individual.net...

>
>Katy Jennison wrote:
>
>> (It helps if you also include the central theme of your post in the body
>> and not just in the header. Not everyone reads the headers.)
>
>If you don't read the header, how do you know what interests you? Or do you
>use a 17th century newsreader that doesn't download headers before content?

It seems that a lot of people do. This is a regular bone of contention on
the group.

--
Guy Barry

[Guy Barry]

"Dutch" wrote in message news:Kgtpv.49843$kS7....@fx21.iad...

>I get, "I don't deserve this", certainly, yet the phrase, "I am humbled by
>this great honour" is still difficult to rationalize logically. One ought
>to be humbled by failure, not success. If an actor was acknowledging an
>award for the worst performance in a motion picture, a "Razzi" I think
>they're called, then it would make perfect sense for him to say that he was
>humbled. It would be consistent with the literal meaning of being "humbled"
>which is to be made to feel less proud of one's abilities. Yet the opposite
>is the case. When I am complimented for doing well in one of the few areas
>I excel, I feel pride, gratification. In no way do I feel less proud of my
>abilities in that area.

I think you may be confusing "humbled" with "humiliated". "Humiliate"
means "to lower the dignity or self-respect of", and wouldn't be appropriate
in this context. Although my dictionary gives "humiliate" as one of the
definitions of "humble", the main definition is "to make humble in spirit or
manner". It is quite likely that the acceptance of an award seen as
undeserved might make the recipient feel humble, without being in any way
humiliating.

--
Guy Barry

[Dutch]

Guy Barry wrote:
> "Dutch" wrote in message news:Kgtpv.49843$kS7....@fx21.iad...
>
>> I get, "I don't deserve this", certainly, yet the phrase, "I am
>> humbled by this great honour" is still difficult to rationalize
>> logically. One ought to be humbled by failure, not success. If an
>> actor was acknowledging an award for the worst performance in a motion
>> picture, a "Razzi" I think they're called, then it would make perfect
>> sense for him to say that he was humbled. It would be consistent with
>> the literal meaning of being "humbled" which is to be made to feel
>> less proud of one's abilities. Yet the opposite is the case. When I am
>> complimented for doing well in one of the few areas I excel, I feel
>> pride, gratification. In no way do I feel less proud of my abilities
>> in that area.
>
> I think you may be confusing "humbled" with "humiliated". "Humiliate"
> means "to lower the dignity or self-respect of", and wouldn't be
> appropriate in this context.

The words "humbled" and "humiliated" are synonyms. The meanings as
listed are very similar. I realize humiliated is not used this way, but
it makes about as much sense if you disregard the fact that this usage
has become commonplace. It makes as much sense as the word "bad" coming
to mean "good" in certain colloquial contexts.

Although my dictionary gives "humiliate"
> as one of the definitions of "humble", the main definition is "to make
> humble in spirit or manner". It is quite likely that the acceptance of
> an award seen as undeserved might make the recipient feel humble,
> without being in any way humiliating.

Why? explain how an award or a compliment would make a person feel more
humble. I receive compliments sometimes and they don't humble me, they
make me feel proud and if anything they increase my self confidence.

I have no clear answer to offer except that it may have become accepted
as a way for a person to express humility when in reality they are
beaming with pride inside.

[Guy Barry]

"Dutch" wrote in message news:zavpv.13766$8d3....@fx01.iad...

>
>Guy Barry wrote:

>> I think you may be confusing "humbled" with "humiliated". "Humiliate"
>> means "to lower the dignity or self-respect of", and wouldn't be
>> appropriate in this context.
>
>The words "humbled" and "humiliated" are synonyms. The meanings as listed
>are very similar.

They can be, but in practice I think they're used differently (as this
discussion indicates). If I find an experience humiliating, that means that
my self-respect or dignity has been lowered, or that I've been treated with
contempt. If I find an experience humbling, that means that I feel in some
way unworthy or undeserving; it's not necessarily a bad thing.

>I realize humiliated is not used this way, but it makes about as much sense
>if you disregard the fact that this usage has become commonplace. It makes
>as much sense as the word "bad" coming to mean "good" in certain colloquial
>contexts.

It's quite common for two words to start out as synonyms and then diverge in
meaning, or at least in nuance. Fowler had an article about this called
"differentiation", which is worth reading.

> Although my dictionary gives "humiliate"
>> as one of the definitions of "humble", the main definition is "to make
>> humble in spirit or manner". It is quite likely that the acceptance of
>> an award seen as undeserved might make the recipient feel humble,
>> without being in any way humiliating.
>
>Why? explain how an award or a compliment would make a person feel more
>humble.

Haven't I already done so? Some people are very modest and don't think they
deserve praise or recognition for what they achieve. When they're singled
out for recognition, they may feel embarrassed or undeserving.

>I receive compliments sometimes and they don't humble me, they make me feel
>proud and if anything they increase my self confidence.

Well maybe you do, but not everyone feels the same way. How people react in
a given situation depends on personality, upbringing and a range of social
factors.

>I have no clear answer to offer except that it may have become accepted as
>a way for a person to express humility when in reality they are beaming
>with pride inside.

It's certainly true that some people may express a form of mock-humility,
because they don't want to be seen as boastful or overweening. But I can
assure you that not everyone feels pride when they're complimented on
something. I don't always, especially when it's something that I find
straightforward and undeserving of praise.

--
Guy Barry

[Dutch]

Guy Barry wrote:
> "Dutch" wrote in message news:o20pv.35888$vf1....@fx06.iad...
>>
>> I have always found this frequently heard usage to be
>> counter-intuitive, and frankly, disingenuous. I would be interested to
>> read what others think. Can one truly be humbled by recognition for
>> one's success? In what sense? I can see a losing candidate honestly
>> being humbled by his failure, but the winner? I've read discussions of
>> this use but I have yet to see an explanation that satisfies me.
>
> I don't think this is entirely a usage question. Some people get
> genuinely embarrassed by recognition that they don't feel they deserve,
> so the term is entirely apt in their case.

I think you are simply expressing acceptance of this as a colloquialism.
Lets pick it apart to see if it stands up literally.

I have certain abilities and training for which I receive compensation.
I have a certain level of confidence in those abilities and use them
well. I then use that skill and expertise to do something that is
recognized by others as important. Lets say, I discover a cure for
cancer. I feel pretty happy about that, and proud; yay for me (and
everyone).

Now consider two different subsequent scenarios.

1. It turns out that my cure actually makes cancer grow faster, and
2. It turns out well and I win the Nobel Prize.

In both cases I might say that I am humbled by the result. In the first
case for good reason, in the second case it would be, in my view, an
expression of false modesty.

> As others have suggested in
> the thread, though, there may be an element of mock-humility in many
> cases (like acceptance speeches at the Oscars).

I do not detect any mock sensibility to those speeches. They seem
sincere. The use has taken hold. It allows people to acknowledge being a
winner and at the same time still appear likeable.

Simply put, being recognized as the top of your field simply cannot
plausibly make you more humble than you were before.. unless.. you
arbitrarily assign the opposite meaning to the word humble for some reason.

[Guy Barry]

"Dutch" wrote in message news:wxvpv.13767$8d3....@fx01.iad...

>
>Guy Barry wrote:

>> I don't think this is entirely a usage question. Some people get
>> genuinely embarrassed by recognition that they don't feel they deserve,
>> so the term is entirely apt in their case.
>
>I think you are simply expressing acceptance of this as a colloquialism.
>Lets pick it apart to see if it stands up literally.

As I have just said, I believe that some people do genuinely feel humble in
such circumstances.

I have been criticized on this group for repeating essentially the same
response in multiple sub-threads, and I can see why people get annoyed by
it. There is no point in going over the same material again and again.

--
Guy Barry

[Dutch]

Guy Barry wrote:
>
> As I have just said, I believe that some people do genuinely feel humble
> in such circumstances.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. Some people are just humble
by nature, those people may feel embarrassed by recognition. Maybe
that's what it means. But there's no way that success or recognition can
make you *more* humble about your abilities. That makes no sense.

> I have been criticized on this group for repeating essentially the same
> response in multiple sub-threads, and I can see why people get annoyed
> by it. There is no point in going over the same material again and again.

Well I'm new here, and I don't want to get you in trouble by being
stubborn, so thanks for the feedback.

[Dutch]

Lewis wrote:
> In message <Kgtpv.49843$kS7....@fx21.iad>

> Dutch <n...@email.com> wrote:
>> I get, "I don't deserve this", certainly, yet the phrase, "I am humbled
>> by this great honour" is still difficult to rationalize logically. One
>> ought to be humbled by failure, not success.
>

> I don't understand why you think this. Humility can come from anywhere,
> why would it require failure?

I don't think it does, but the phrase stipulates this. The topic is
specifically "being humbled" by something. My question is, how can
success cause that?

I understand it making one happy or proud, even sheepish or embarrassed.
Perhaps that is an answer to this question; maybe it is a way of saying,
"I'm no star, I was just doing my job, or what anyone would do"
something like that.

>> If an actor was
>> acknowledging an award for the worst performance in a motion picture, a
>> "Razzi" I think they're called, then it would make perfect sense for him
>> to say that he was humbled. It would be consistent with the literal
>> meaning of being "humbled" which is to be made to feel less proud of
>> one's abilities.
>

> That seems overly strict. Humble means modest as well as "low opinion".

The context of the phrase is clear. The award or recognition has had a
"humbling" effect on the speaker. That means to me that however modest
or humble he was prior, by nature, that has been increased by the
recognition.

>
>> Yet the opposite is the case. When I am complimented
>> for doing well in one of the few areas I excel, I feel pride,
>

> And if you are complimented for something that you did well with the
> help of 1500 other people?

I would place all of my achievements in that category, such as they are;
probably everyone else's too.

I suspect this expression does not lend itself well to literal
translation as I have attempted to do.

[Snidely]

Guy Barry is guilty of <1Gtpv.69697$9r4....@fx32.am4> as of 6/21/2014
10:17:49 PM

The nuuzreeters I've used generally have multiple panes, with a pane
dedicated to the body, a pane dedicated to a tree-view of the posts,
with each post a represented by a single line, usually showing subject,
poster, and date. This helps me find the 3-month-old thread I that I
will wake from the dead.

It also helps me to identify a branch of a thread that has turned into
a 2-person teeter-totter or ping-pong tournament.

/dps

--
Maybe C282Y is simply one of the hangers-on, a groupie following a
future guitar god of the human genome: an allele with undiscovered
virtuosity, currently soloing in obscurity in Mom's garage.
Bradley Wertheim, theAtlantic.com, Jan 10 2013

[Snidely]

Snidely submitted this gripping article, maybe on Monday:

> Guy Barry is guilty of <1Gtpv.69697$9r4....@fx32.am4> as of 6/21/2014
> 10:17:49 PM
>> "Katy Jennison" wrote in message news:lo27cs$k0m$1...@news.albasani.net...
>>>
>>>On 20/06/2014 20:33, Dutch wrote:
>>>> I have always found this frequently heard usage to be counter-intuitive,
>>>> and frankly, disingenuous. I would be interested to read what others
>>>> think. Can one truly be humbled by recognition for one's success? In
>>>> what sense? I can see a losing candidate honestly being humbled by his
>>>> failure, but the winner? I've read discussions of this use but I have
>>>> yet to see an explanation that satisfies me.
>>>
>>>(It helps if you also include the central theme of your post in the body
>>> and not just in the header. Not everyone reads the headers.)
>>
>> I currently have 861 posts to catch up on. The only way I can sensibly do
>> so is by looking at the headers and trying to glean whether it's likely to
>> be an interesting thread. I am no longer in a position where I'm able to
>> read all the messages (which I'm sure some people will be delighted about).
>
> The nuuzreeters I've used generally have multiple panes, with a pane
> dedicated to the body, a pane dedicated to a tree-view of the posts, with
> each post a represented by a single line, usually showing subject, poster,
> and date.

The currentous NR also gives me a list of newsgroups in a third pane.

> This helps me find the 3-month-old thread I that I will wake from
> the dead.
>
> It also helps me to identify a branch of a thread that has turned into a
> 2-person teeter-totter or ping-pong tournament.

It also identifies the stump where my post lies.

/dps

--
There's nothing inherently wrong with Big Data. What matters, as it
does for Arnold Lund in California or Richard Rothman in Baltimore, are
the questions -- old and new, good and bad -- this newest tool lets us
ask. (R. Lerhman, CSMonitor.com)

[Dr Nick]

Katy Jennison <ka...@spamtrap.kjennison.com> writes:

> On 20/06/2014 22:50, Jerry Friedman wrote:
>> On 6/20/14 3:16 PM, Lanarcam wrote:

>>> Le 20/06/2014 23:00, Katy Jennison a écrit :
>>>> On 20/06/2014 20:33, Dutch wrote:
>>>>> I have always found this frequently heard usage to be
>>>>> counter-intuitive,
>>>>> and frankly, disingenuous. I would be interested to read what others
>>>>> think. Can one truly be humbled by recognition for one's success? In
>>>>> what sense? I can see a losing candidate honestly being humbled by his
>>>>> failure, but the winner? I've read discussions of this use but I have
>>>>> yet to see an explanation that satisfies me.
>>>>
>>>> (It helps if you also include the central theme of your post in the body
>>>> and not just in the header. Not everyone reads the headers.)
>>>>

>>>> Interesting question.
>>>>
>>>> My sense of it is that it's the not-uncommon feeling of "Wow! I did it!
>>>> Me! Me, whose teachers always said wouldn't come to anything! Me, up
>>>> there with the Big Guys!" It's not that one feels more humble than
>>>> before, but that the success doesn't accord with one's previous
>>>> relatively-humble opinion of oneself: the success brings it into focus.
>>>>
>>> I agree with that: if only they knew how miserable I am in reality...
>>>
>>> Everyone has his own failures, we do our best to hide them, but the
>>> self does know.
>>
>> I suspect there's a continuuum from "I know I don't deserve this"--or if
>> the honor is getting a responsible position, "I doubt I can handle
>> this"--through "I'd better remind myself not to get a swelled head" to
>> "I'm extremely proud of this well-deserved recognition and this is a
>> desperate attempt not to let it show."
>>
>
> Some of us also wonder when we'll get found out.

Everybody wonders all the time when they'll get found out. Once you
realise that, life becomes a lot easier.

[Dutch]

Lewis wrote:
> Okay, so one time? In band camp? Dutch <n...@email.com> was all, like:
> --> Sun, 22 Jun 2014 15:44:38 -0700 <42Jpv.37238$c8....@fx25.iad>

>> The context of the phrase is clear. The award or recognition has had a
>> "humbling" effect on the speaker. That means to me that however modest
>> or humble he was prior, by nature, that has been increased by the
>> recognition.
>

> Yes? And why do you think that requires failure?

<-------->
https://www.google.ca/?gfe_rd=cr&ei=FF0-U6D7LtDP8gegtIHwAg#q=humble+definition

hum�ble
verb

lower (someone) in dignity or importance.
"I knew he had humbled himself to ask for my help"

synonyms: humiliate, abase, demean, lower, degrade, debase; More

<------->

How can recognition for excellence do any of these things to someone? I
think the answer is, it can't. So my conclusion this use has evolved as
a kind of aberration. As someone said, glibly, welcome to the English
language.

[Jenn]

On 6/23/2014 9:07 PM, Dutch wrote:
> Lewis wrote:
>> Okay, so one time? In band camp? Dutch <n...@email.com> was all, like:
>> --> Sun, 22 Jun 2014 15:44:38 -0700 <42Jpv.37238$c8....@fx25.iad>
>>> The context of the phrase is clear. The award or recognition has had a
>>> "humbling" effect on the speaker. That means to me that however modest
>>> or humble he was prior, by nature, that has been increased by the
>>> recognition.
>>
>> Yes? And why do you think that requires failure?
>
> <-------->
> https://www.google.ca/?gfe_rd=cr&ei=FF0-U6D7LtDP8gegtIHwAg#q=humble+definition
>
>
> hum�ble
> verb
>
> lower (someone) in dignity or importance.
> "I knew he had humbled himself to ask for my help"
>
> synonyms: humiliate, abase, demean, lower, degrade, debase; More

Humiliate is what one person does to another. Humble is a desireable an
attitude. Each word has a form of someone else doing something to
another person, and a form of the word that refers to an inner
desireable quality.

> <------->
>
> How can recognition for excellence do any of these things to someone? I
> think the answer is, it can't. So my conclusion this use has evolved as
> a kind of aberration. As someone said, glibly, welcome to the English
> language.
>

Possibly, the type of recognition and how the person views it determines
if they feel humble or humiliated.

--
Jenn

[rafael.c...@gmail.com]

On Monday, June 23, 2014 12:17:36 AM UTC-7, Snidely wrote:

[snip without malice]

> The nuuzreeters I've used generally have multiple panes, with a pane
> dedicated to the body, a pane dedicated to a tree-view of the posts,
> with each post a represented by a single line, usually showing subject,
> poster, and date. This helps me find the 3-month-old thread I that I
> will wake from the dead.

Can you make some suggestions? I would like to rid myself of GG and
now am willing to put some effort into it.

Mac 10.8 prefer one that is text based, with the capability of
clicking on urls(?) if that's possible.

Also, something I read said that NewsWatcher is dial up. Is that
possible? I'd guess if it's text based it isn't web based and
therefore needs to be dialup. ??

--
charles

[Jenn]

Try thunderbird or seamonkey. I've heard they are OK with a Mac.

--
Jenn

[snide...@gmail.com]

On Monday, June 23, 2014 8:15:29 PM UTC-7, rafael.c...@gmail.com wrote:

> Can you make some suggestions? I would like to rid myself of GG and
> now am willing to put some effort into it.
>
> Mac 10.8 prefer one that is text based, with the capability of
> clicking on urls(?) if that's possible.

I don't have any experience with Macs and yoosnaette, and I don't think the Mac
users I have around me do, either.

Somebody mentioned running a virtual machine on a Mac to support their choice
of reader, but I don't have any experience setting up VMs on a Mac, either. If
that's a way you can go, lots of choices are opened up.

My newsreader is essentially 2 text boxes plus a tree widget, wrapped in
conventional Windows frames. Clicking on links works well. It allows toggling
between proportional and fixed-width fonts, and handles wrapping excessively
long lines. You might be able to Wine about it.

I don't mind GG too much, so I'm not sure how far you want to rely on my
tastes. I also buy Krispy Kreme donuts and have dinner at Taco Bell.

/dps

[Guy Barry]

"Lewis" wrote in message news:slrnlqicjh....@Amelia.local...

>Humble, as a noun, also means modest.

I assume you mean "adjective" there.

--
Guy Barry

[Snidely]

snide...@gmail.com submitted this gripping article, maybe on Monday:

> My newsreader is essentially 2 text boxes plus a tree widget, wrapped in
> conventional Windows frames.

A gross oversimplification, because the header pane has columns, any
one of which can be used for the primary sort.

/dps

--
Trust, but verify.

[Jenn]

On Mon, 23 Jun 2014 22:21:31 -0700 (PDT), snide...@gmail.com wrote:
> I don't mind GG too much, so I'm not sure how far
> you want to rely on my tastes. I also buy Krispy
> Kreme donuts and have dinner at Taco Bell.

Careful... You're bringing up argon old topic, you troll.

--
Jenn

[John Dawkins]

In article <80044ec5-93c0-4c83...@googlegroups.com>,

rafael.c...@gmail.com wrote:

> On Monday, June 23, 2014 12:17:36 AM UTC-7, Snidely wrote:
>
> [snip without malice]
>
> > The nuuzreeters I've used generally have multiple panes, with a pane
> > dedicated to the body, a pane dedicated to a tree-view of the posts,
> > with each post a represented by a single line, usually showing subject,
> > poster, and date. This helps me find the 3-month-old thread I that I
> > will wake from the dead.
>
> Can you make some suggestions? I would like to rid myself of GG and
> now am willing to put some effort into it.
>
> Mac 10.8 prefer one that is text based, with the capability of
> clicking on urls(?) if that's possible.

MT-Newswatcher (3.5.2) works fine with OS X 10.8.

> Also, something I read said that NewsWatcher is dial up. Is that
> possible? I'd guess if it's text based it isn't web based and
> therefore needs to be dialup. ??

Usenet is not "web based". Google put their front end on Usenet, and
called it "Google Groups". To access Usenet with a real newsreader,
you'll need a new-server. Many of them are free.

--
J.

[Peter Moylan]

Your last sentence is definitely wrong. Most newsreaders are internet
based but not web based. That's independent of whether they are GUI
applications or text-based applications.

I don't have a Mac, so I don't know how useful this paragraph will be to
you. At present I use Thunderbird, mostly because of its good support
for non-ASCII characters. The last text-based newsreader I used was
slrn, which was good but only supported (at the time) Latin-1 but not
UTF-8. I imagine that both of those have been ported to the Mac.

--
Peter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org
For an e-mail address, see my web page.

[Arcadian Rises]

On Sunday, June 22, 2014 1:17:49 AM UTC-4, Guy Barry wrote:
> "Katy Jennison" wrote in message news:lo27cs$k0m$1...@news.albasani.net...
>
> >
>

> >On 20/06/2014 20:33, Dutch wrote:
>
> >> I have always found this frequently heard usage to be counter-intuitive,
>
> >> and frankly, disingenuous. I would be interested to read what others
>
> >> think. Can one truly be humbled by recognition for one's success? In
>
> >> what sense? I can see a losing candidate honestly being humbled by his
>
> >> failure, but the winner? I've read discussions of this use but I have
>
> >> yet to see an explanation that satisfies me.
>
> >
>
> >(It helps if you also include the central theme of your post in the body
>
> >and not just in the header. Not everyone reads the headers.)
>
>
>

> I currently have 861 posts to catch up on. The only way I can sensibly do
>
> so is by looking at the headers and trying to glean whether it's likely to
>
> be an interesting thread. I am no longer in a position where I'm able to
>
> read all the messages (which I'm sure some people will be delighted about).
>
>
>

> --
>
Ditto! I don't think it's a matter of usage either. It's rather a matter of personal style, or particular circumstances. Some people feel honored, others feel humbled, genuinely or not, in both cases.

[Dutch]

I'm sorry but that response is not insightful.

Describe a plausible train of thought that starts with receiving high
praise or recognition for one's work and feeling humbled by it. Keep in
mind the definition of the transitive verb "to humble".

verb: humble; 3rd person present: humbles; past tense: humbled; past
participle: humbled; gerund or present participle: humbling

lower (someone) in dignity or importance.
"I knew he had humbled himself to ask for my help"

synonyms: humiliate, abase, demean, lower, degrade, debase; More

mortify, shame, abash;

informal: cut down to size, deflate, make eat humble pie, take down a
peg or two, settle someone's hash, make eat crow

�decisively defeat (another team or competitor, typically one that was

Boy oh boy, that Nobel Prize sure took me down a peg or two..

[Dutch]

Lewis wrote:
> Okay, so one time? In band camp? Dutch <n...@email.com> was all, like:

> --> Mon, 23 Jun 2014 19:07:34 -0700 <i65qv.103604$SK.5...@fx03.iad>

>> Lewis wrote:
>>> Okay, so one time? In band camp? Dutch <n...@email.com> was all, like:
>>> --> Sun, 22 Jun 2014 15:44:38 -0700 <42Jpv.37238$c8....@fx25.iad>
>>>> The context of the phrase is clear. The award or recognition has had a
>>>> "humbling" effect on the speaker. That means to me that however modest
>>>> or humble he was prior, by nature, that has been increased by the
>>>> recognition.
>>>
>>> Yes? And why do you think that requires failure?
>
>> <-------->
>> https://www.google.ca/?gfe_rd=cr&ei=FF0-U6D7LtDP8gegtIHwAg#q=humble+definition
>
>> hum·ble
>> verb
>
>> lower (someone) in dignity or importance.
>

> That is ONE definition.
>
> Humble, as a noun, also means modest. If one is made to feel humble, it
> is that sense of humble that is meant.

It is being used as a transitive verb here. The award *humbled* me. If
something humbles me it makes me feel less than before.

I do not understand the apparent resistance to challenging the logic of
this use.

[Guy Barry]

"Lewis" wrote in message news:slrnlqkipj....@amelia.local...

>
>Okay, so one time? In band camp? Dutch <n...@email.com> was all, like:

> --> Tue, 24 Jun 2014 19:58:08 -0700 <HXqqv.173360$G37.1...@fx07.iad>

>> Describe a plausible train of thought that starts with receiving high
>> praise or recognition for one's work and feeling humbled by it. Keep in
>> mind the definition of the transitive verb "to humble".
>

>You keep harping on this one point and are ignoring everyone who's
>explained it to you. It is obvious you are not here trying to find
>anything out or learn anything, just just want to argue about sme
>pet-peeve you've made up for yourself.

Perhaps Dutch is the latest troll...

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/humble gives three definitions for the verb
"humble":

1. To curtail or destroy the pride of; humiliate.
2. To cause to be meek or modest in spirit.
3. To give a lower condition or station to; abase.

It seems clear that the meaning intended in "I am humbled by this great
honour" is definition 2, since definitions 1 and 3 make no sense in the
context.

--
Guy Barry

[CDB]

On 24/06/2014 11:04 PM, Dutch wrote:
> Lewis wrote:

>> Dutch <n...@email.com> was all:
>>> Lewis wrote:
>>>> Dutch <n...@email.com> was all:

>>>>> The context of the phrase is clear. The award or recognition
>>>>> has had a "humbling" effect on the speaker. That means to me
>>>>> that however modest or humble he was prior, by nature, that
>>>>> has been increased by the recognition.

>>>> Yes? And why do you think that requires failure?

>>> https://www.google.ca/?gfe_rd=cr&ei=FF0-U6D7LtDP8gegtIHwAg#q=humble+definition
>>>
>>>
hum·ble verb

>>> lower (someone) in dignity or importance.

>> That is ONE definition. Humble, as a noun, also means modest. If
>> one is made to feel humble, it is that sense of humble that is
>> meant.

> It is being used as a transitive verb here. The award *humbled* me.
> If something humbles me it makes me feel less than before.

> I do not understand the apparent resistance to challenging the logic
> of this use.

"Friend of Jenn"?

Keep in mind too that it is something that is said, not necessarily
felt, on these great occasions. Look how often Sally Field has been
mocked for her (no doubt sincere) "You like me! You really like me!" at
the Oscars.

It's a natural way to disarm envy, and an old one, like giving the baby
an insulting name to pacify evil spirits. The newly-elected Speaker in
the Canadian House of Commons, in presenting him- or herself to the
Governor-General, has a traditional piece to speak* that begins "The
House of Commons has elected me their Speaker**, though I am but little
able to fulfill the important duties thus assigned to me," and goes on
to ask His or Her Excellency to be kind aout it. Humble, like.

*A tradition cribbed from the Brits, without a doubt, whose Speakers
used to have some reason to fear the envy of kings. I suppose they
still say it there; I had to leave Erskine May's manuals behind when I
retired.

**ObAUE: That's accurate: "The HoC *has* elected me *their* speaker."

[Guy Barry]

"CDB" wrote in message news:loe7ja$fds$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

>Keep in mind too that it is something that is said, not necessarily
>felt, on these great occasions. Look how often Sally Field has been
>mocked for her (no doubt sincere) "You like me! You really like me!" at
>the Oscars.

There's one point arising from this discussion which is baffling me. All
the dictionaries seem to give "humiliate" as one of the definitions of the
verb "humble", alongside the definition we're discussing ("cause to feel
meek"). Yet I can't offhand think of a context where the verb "humble" is
used to mean "humiliate". If someone says to me "I was humbled by the
occasion", the only interpretation I would put on it is "the occasion made
me feel meek", not "I was humiliated by the occasion". One would think that
the two definitions might lead to potential ambiguity in some cases, but
they don't seem to. Can anyone give me a context in which "I am humbled"
can mean "I am humiliated"?

--
Guy Barry

[John Ritson]

In article <CBxqv.513037$hN6.4...@fx22.am4>, Guy Barry
<guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> writes

Rupert Murdoch, appearing before a Commons Committee to testify about
phone-hacking and making a statement about it being "the most humble day
of my life".

--
John Ritson

[Tony Cooper]

While I wouldn't think of using it that way, a person might say that
they were humbled by their boss when the boss picked apart the
person's presentation at a business meeting.

If the person went into that meeting with the feeling that the
presentation would go well and be roundly accepted by the boss,
"humbled" does have a similar meaning to "humiliated". To be humbled
is to be brought down, and being brought down can be humiliating.

I am not trying to present "humiliated" as synonymous with "humbled"
in this context, but some people may think of it that way. There are
many words that are used by some people in a way that I would not use
them.


--
Tony Cooper - Orlando FL

[Guy Barry]

"John Ritson" wrote in message news:Fu4eucBw...@hotmail.co.uk...

>
>In article <CBxqv.513037$hN6.4...@fx22.am4>, Guy Barry
><guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> writes
>>"CDB" wrote in message news:loe7ja$fds$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

>>There's one point arising from this discussion which is baffling me. All
>>the dictionaries seem to give "humiliate" as one of the definitions of the
>>verb "humble", alongside the definition we're discussing ("cause to feel
>>meek"). Yet I can't offhand think of a context where the verb "humble"
>>is
>>used to mean "humiliate". If someone says to me "I was humbled by the
>>occasion", the only interpretation I would put on it is "the occasion made
>>me feel meek", not "I was humiliated by the occasion". One would think
>>that
>>the two definitions might lead to potential ambiguity in some cases, but
>>they don't seem to. Can anyone give me a context in which "I am humbled"
>>can mean "I am humiliated"?
>>
>Rupert Murdoch, appearing before a Commons Committee to testify about
>phone-hacking and making a statement about it being "the most humble day
>of my life".

That sentence doesn't contain the verb "humble".

--
Guy Barry

[Jenn]

"Joe humbled Jim by his nasty comment."

--
Jenn

[Guy Barry]

"Jenn" wrote in message news:loeu5o$6ad$1...@echo.eternal-september.org...

>
>Guy Barry wrote:

>> There's one point arising from this discussion which is baffling me. All
>> the dictionaries seem to give "humiliate" as one of the
>> definitions of the verb "humble", alongside the definition we're
>> discussing ("cause to feel meek"). Yet I can't offhand think of a
>> context where the verb "humble" is used to mean "humiliate". If
>> someone says to me "I was humbled by the occasion", the only
>> interpretation I would put on it is "the occasion made me feel meek",
>> not "I was humiliated by the occasion". One would think that the two
>> definitions might lead to potential ambiguity in some cases, but they
>> don't seem to. Can anyone give me a context in which "I am humbled"
>> can mean "I am humiliated"?
>
>"Joe humbled Jim by his nasty comment."

Yes, I suppose "humble" does mean "humiliate" in that context. And yet
would Jim report the event by saying "I was humbled by Joe's nasty comment"?
I don't think so - it sounds very strange to me.

--
Guy Barry

[Reinhold {Rey} Aman]

Guy "Barry" Barry wrote:
>
[...]
Every AUEer who from now on responds to that hated whore-from-hell Jenn
is guilty of enabling that ruthless bitch to continue her turning AUE
into a wasteland already befouled with countless heaps of brainless
Jenn-shit.

--
~~~ Reinhold {Rey} Aman ~~~

[Guy Barry]

"Reinhold {Rey} Aman" wrote in message news:53AAFF52...@sonic.net...

>
>Guy "Barry" Barry wrote:
>>
>[...]
>Every AUEer who from now on responds to that hated whore-from-hell Jenn
>is guilty of enabling that ruthless bitch to continue her turning AUE
>into a wasteland already befouled with countless heaps of brainless
>Jenn-shit.

Did you read Jenn's post? It was a legitimate usage point, and a useful
contribution to the discussion.

--
Guy Barry

[Jenn]

I don't know for sure what Jim would say about the comment. Men can be
strange and prideful creatures, sometimes. <smile>

--
Jenn

[Guy Barry]

"Jenn" wrote in message news:lof08g$mgg$1...@echo.eternal-september.org...

>I don't know for sure what Jim would say about the comment. Men can be
>strange and prideful creatures, sometimes. <smile>

"Prideful"? I'd say "proud" - another word that can have either a good or a
bad connotation.

--
Guy Barry

[Jenn]

hmmm I guess you're right. I meant it as joking.

--
Jenn

[Guy Barry]

"Jenn" wrote in message news:lof11b$sj0$1...@echo.eternal-september.org...

Well, I don't know. I normally hear "proud" used in a positive sense -
"proud of one's achievements" or whatever. But it can also be used in a
negative sense, as in "he's a very proud person", referring to false pride
or arrogance. It's probably a little old-fashioned when used in that way,
but "pride" in that sense was one of the original seven deadly sins.

--
Guy Barry

[Jenn]

Guy Barry wrote:
> "Jenn" wrote in message
> news:lof11b$sj0$1...@echo.eternal-september.org...
>>
>> Guy Barry wrote:
>>> "Jenn" wrote in message
>>> news:lof08g$mgg$1...@echo.eternal-september.org...
>>>> I don't know for sure what Jim would say about the comment. Men can
>>>> be strange and prideful creatures, sometimes. <smile>
>>>
>>> "Prideful"? I'd say "proud" - another word that can have either a
>>> good or a bad connotation.
>>
>> hmmm I guess you're right. I meant it as joking.
>
> Well, I don't know. I normally hear "proud" used in a positive sense
> - "proud of one's achievements" or whatever. But it can also be used
> in a negative sense, as in "he's a very proud person", referring to
> false pride or arrogance. It's probably a little old-fashioned when
> used in that way, but "pride" in that sense was one of the original
> seven deadly sins.

I think my southern roots may be showing by using "prideful" vs. "proud".

--
Jenn

[Reinhold {Rey} Aman]

Dishonest Guy "Barry" Barry wrote:
>
> Did you read Jenn's post? It was a legitimate usage point,
> and a useful contribution to the discussion.
>

Fuck off, busybody.

[Guy Barry]

"Reinhold {Rey} Aman" wrote in message news:53AB0C7C...@sonic.net...

>
>Dishonest Guy "Barry" Barry wrote:
>>
>> Did you read Jenn's post? It was a legitimate usage point,
>> and a useful contribution to the discussion.
>>
>Fuck off, busybody.

You're losing it, aren't you?

--
Guy Barry

[Katy Jennison]

Not a verb as such, but what John says suddenly makes sense (FSVO sense)
of what I'd previously found a rather bizarre statement.

--
Katy Jennison

[Peter Moylan]

On 25/06/14 12:58, Dutch wrote:
>
> Describe a plausible train of thought that starts with receiving high
> praise or recognition for one's work and feeling humbled by it. Keep in
> mind the definition of the transitive verb "to humble".

If I were offered a Nobel Prize, my very first thought would be that I
don't belong in the same category as all those famous people.

You see to be focusing on just one meaning of "humbled". "To feel
humbled" means "to feel humility". That's not at all the same as the
"brought low" meaning.

[Dutch]

I think you are confusing the adjective with the verb. Humble and
humiliate as verbs are synonyms, although humiliate is usually more severe.

Humble as an adjective describes a character trait, the opposite of
arrogant, usually viewed as positive.

[Dutch]

I think you're on to something, as I said previously, like the Chinese
mother who describes the meal she prepares as horrible and inedible, to
which everyone is required to loudly disagree.

[Dutch]

It is clearly implied. The scandal "humbled" him.

[Dutch]

That is a logical, straightforward use of the verb. Humbled can also
mean the feeling you get when you receive a great honour. Go figure.

[Dutch]

Reinhold {Rey} Aman wrote:
> Guy "Barry" Barry wrote:
>>
> [...]
> Every AUEer who from now on responds to that hated whore-from-hell Jenn
> is guilty of enabling that ruthless bitch to continue her turning AUE
> into a wasteland already befouled with countless heaps of brainless
> Jenn-shit.
>

I don't know what your problem is nor do I care but this kind of post
does exactly what you are accusing her of doing.

[Dutch]

Lewis wrote:
> Okay, so one time? In band camp? Dutch <n...@email.com> was all, like:
> --> Tue, 24 Jun 2014 19:58:08 -0700 <HXqqv.173360$G37.1...@fx07.iad>

>> Arcadian Rises wrote:
>>> On Sunday, June 22, 2014 1:17:49 AM UTC-4, Guy Barry wrote:
>>>> "Katy Jennison" wrote in message news:lo27cs$k0m$1...@news.albasani.net...
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On 20/06/2014 20:33, Dutch wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> I have always found this frequently heard usage to be counter-intuitive,
>>>>
>>>>>> and frankly, disingenuous. I would be interested to read what others
>>>>
>>>>>> think. Can one truly be humbled by recognition for one's success? In
>>>>
>>>>>> what sense? I can see a losing candidate honestly being humbled by his
>>>>
>>>>>> failure, but the winner? I've read discussions of this use but I have
>>>>
>>>>>> yet to see an explanation that satisfies me.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> (It helps if you also include the central theme of your post in the body
>>>>
>>>>> and not just in the header. Not everyone reads the headers.)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I currently have 861 posts to catch up on. The only way I can sensibly do
>>>>
>>>> so is by looking at the headers and trying to glean whether it's likely to
>>>>
>>>> be an interesting thread. I am no longer in a position where I'm able to
>>>>
>>>> read all the messages (which I'm sure some people will be delighted about).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>> Ditto! I don't think it's a matter of usage either. It's rather a matter of personal style, or particular circumstances. Some people feel honored, others feel humbled, genuinely or not, in both cases.
>
>> I'm sorry but that response is not insightful.

>
>> Describe a plausible train of thought that starts with receiving high
>> praise or recognition for one's work and feeling humbled by it. Keep in
>> mind the definition of the transitive verb "to humble".
>

> You keep harping on this one point and are ignoring everyone who's
> explained it to you. It is obvious you are not here trying to find
> anything out or learn anything, just just want to argue about sme
> pet-peeve you've made up for yourself.
>

> Fine, have at it, but this has been asked and answered many times.
> You're not adding anything here.

Instead of launching into a sanctimonious lecture, which perhaps is your
specialty, maybe read other branches of the thread where real insights
into this use are being uncovered.

[Dutch]

Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 25/06/14 12:58, Dutch wrote:
>>
>> Describe a plausible train of thought that starts with receiving high
>> praise or recognition for one's work and feeling humbled by it. Keep in
>> mind the definition of the transitive verb "to humble".
>
> If I were offered a Nobel Prize, my very first thought would be that I
> don't belong in the same category as all those famous people.
>
> You see to be focusing on just one meaning of "humbled". "To feel
> humbled" means "to feel humility". That's not at all the same as the
> "brought low" meaning.
>

That's a very good explanation, I almost buy it, except that "to feel
humility" isn't a listed meaning for the verb humbled. To be humble and
to be humbled are quite different. I do think you're correct though,
that is how the phrase is meant and taken in practice. Kind of like "aw
shucks, who me?" It is just a little odd that one can humbled by an
award and by a scandal at the same time in completely opposite ways.

[Guy Barry]

"Katy Jennison" wrote in message news:lofi81$k5l$1...@news.albasani.net...

>
>On 25/06/2014 14:47, Guy Barry wrote:
>> "John Ritson" wrote in message news:Fu4eucBw...@hotmail.co.uk...
>>>
>>> In article <CBxqv.513037$hN6.4...@fx22.am4>, Guy Barry
>>> <guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> writes

>>>> Can anyone give me a context in which "I am
>>>> humbled"
>>>> can mean "I am humiliated"?
>>>>
>>> Rupert Murdoch, appearing before a Commons Committee to testify about
>>> phone-hacking and making a statement about it being "the most humble day
>>> of my life".
>>
>> That sentence doesn't contain the verb "humble".
>>
>Not a verb as such, but what John says suddenly makes sense (FSVO sense) of
>what I'd previously found a rather bizarre statement.

Are you suggesting that Murdoch was using the adjective "humble" to mean
"humiliating"? I assumed he meant that it was a day on which he felt very
humble, without necessarily being humiliated.

--
Guy Barry

[Guy Barry]

"Dutch" wrote in message news:dBKqv.118207$OF6....@fx19.iad...

>
>Guy Barry wrote:

>> There's one point arising from this discussion which is baffling me.
>> All the dictionaries seem to give "humiliate" as one of the definitions
>> of the verb "humble", alongside the definition we're discussing ("cause
>> to feel meek"). Yet I can't offhand think of a context where the verb
>> "humble" is used to mean "humiliate". If someone says to me "I was
>> humbled by the occasion", the only interpretation I would put on it is
>> "the occasion made me feel meek", not "I was humiliated by the
>> occasion". One would think that the two definitions might lead to
>> potential ambiguity in some cases, but they don't seem to. Can anyone
>> give me a context in which "I am humbled" can mean "I am humiliated"?
>>
>
>I think you are confusing the adjective with the verb. Humble and humiliate
>as verbs are synonyms, although humiliate is usually more severe.

"Humiliate" is *one* definition of the verb "humble", but not the only one,
as has been pointed out several times in this thread. Why do you keep
ignoring this point?

When people say "I am humbled by this occasion" they do not normally mean "I
am humiliated by this occasion". They mean "this occasion makes me feel
unworthy or undeserving".

--
Guy Barry

[Guy Barry]

"Dutch" wrote in message news:8KKqv.43344$_w1....@fx08.iad...
>
>Reinhold {Rey} Aman wrote:

[misleading attribution line snipped]

>> Every AUEer who from now on [etc.]

>I don't know what your problem is nor do I care but this kind of post does
>exactly what you are accusing her of doing.

Rey has for some reason started posting the same screed every time anyone
responds to Jenn for any reason. He must have done so at least ten times
now. Just ignore it.

--
Guy Barry

[Guy Barry]

"Dutch" wrote in message news:lRKqv.130036$iF4....@fx18.iad...

>
>Lewis wrote:

>> Fine, have at it, but this has been asked and answered many times.
>> You're not adding anything here.
>
>Instead of launching into a sanctimonious lecture, which perhaps is your
>specialty, maybe read other branches of the thread where real insights into
>this use are being uncovered.

Yes, and you keep ignoring them because you're convinced that the verb
"humble" can only mean "humiliate" and nothing else.

There are a couple of other posters on this group who've gained a bad
reputation because they're fixated on proving a particular point and dismiss
the views of anyone who disagrees with them. If you don't want to gain a
similar reputation, I suggest you broaden your outlook.

--
Guy Barry

[Iskandar Baharuddin]

This reminds me of a good friend from many years ago in Indonesia.

He had a knack for language: Malay, Indonesian, Cantonese, Mandarin.

But...

He was the guest of honour in a small city in Java. He had just
untangled the mess made of a bequest from an English lady.

Needless to say he decided to speak in Indonesian. He wanted to express
his sense of humility.

In Indonesian "malu" is fairly close to humble, although it can also
mean "ashamed".

Indonesian grammar allows one to turn an adjective into a noun by
applying the appropriate prefix and suffix.

My friend decided that a "sense of humility" could be expressed by the
word "kemaluan".

In his speech he said:

"Saya memiliki suatu kemaluan yang demikian besar sehingga saya tak
dapat menguraikannya."

This led to stunned silence, followed by hysterical laughter.

What he had said can be translated as:

"I have a penis which is so big I cannot describe it."

--
Salaam, Izzy

Ciri sa-bumi, cara sa-desa. (Sundanese proverb)
"People are pretty much the same around the world, but the way they do
things depends on where they come from."

[Reinhold {Rey} Aman]

Devious Guy "Barry" Barry wrote:
>
> "Dutch" wrote...

>> Reinhold {Rey} Aman wrote:
>
> [misleading attribution line snipped]
>

The attribution line is only misleading to gits like you who can't count
chevrons. Again.

>
>>> Every AUEer who from now on [etc.]
>

>> [snipped newbie's crap]

>
> Rey has for some reason started posting the same screed every time
> anyone responds to Jenn for any reason.
>

Totally wrong, git. Another false accusation.

>
> He must have done so at least ten times now.
>

Wrong, Mr Hyperbole. Your last busybodying count was six:

| Repeating the same insulting screed about responders to Jenn: 6

[Guy Barry]

"Reinhold {Rey} Aman" wrote in message news:53ABC4A0...@sonic.net...

>
>Devious Guy "Barry" Barry wrote:

>> Rey has for some reason started posting the same screed every time
>> anyone responds to Jenn for any reason.

[...]

>> He must have done so at least ten times now.
>>
>Wrong, Mr Hyperbole. Your last busybodying count was six:
>
> | Repeating the same insulting screed about responders to Jenn: 6

That was purely the count within the 25 posts before that message, and
doesn't include the ones that you posted previously or subsequently. I have
just checked and there are indeed ten copies in total (including one under
the name of "Reginald", and one that you posted a few minutes ago).

--
Guy Barry

[Dutch]

Guy Barry wrote:
> "Lewis" wrote in message news:slrnlqkipj....@amelia.local...

>>
>> Okay, so one time? In band camp? Dutch <n...@email.com> was all, like:
>> --> Tue, 24 Jun 2014 19:58:08 -0700 <HXqqv.173360$G37.1...@fx07.iad>
>

>>> Describe a plausible train of thought that starts with receiving high
>>> praise or recognition for one's work and feeling humbled by it. Keep in

>>> mind the definition of the transitive verb "to humble".
>>
>> You keep harping on this one point and are ignoring everyone who's
>> explained it to you. It is obvious you are not here trying to find
>> anything out or learn anything, just just want to argue about sme
>> pet-peeve you've made up for yourself.
>

> Perhaps Dutch is the latest troll...

I haven't insulted you, please accord me the same respect.
>
> http://www.thefreedictionary.com/humble gives three definitions for the
> verb "humble":
>
> 1. To curtail or destroy the pride of; humiliate.
> 2. To cause to be meek or modest in spirit.
> 3. To give a lower condition or station to; abase.
>
> It seems clear that the meaning intended in "I am humbled by this great
> honour" is definition 2, since definitions 1 and 3 make no sense in the
> context.
>

2. doesn't make sense either, how could a high honor cause one to be
meek or modest? I can certainly understand a modest person receiving an
award and I can understand an award making one proud. To cause someone
to be meek is synonymous with humiliating them.

Again, I think you are simply buying into a reverse interpretation of
the word.

[Guy Barry]

"Dutch" wrote in message news:86Qqv.64193$vf1....@fx06.iad...

>
>Guy Barry wrote:

>> It seems clear that the meaning intended in "I am humbled by this great
>> honour" is definition 2, since definitions 1 and 3 make no sense in the
>> context.
>>
>
>2. doesn't make sense either, how could a high honor cause one to be meek
>or modest?

This has been explained to you several times.

>I can certainly understand a modest person receiving an award and I can
>understand an award making one proud. To cause someone to be meek is
>synonymous with humiliating them.

Yes, you've said that several times.

>Again, I think you are simply buying into a reverse interpretation of the
>word.

This discussion is getting nowhere. If you don't want to be thought of as a
"troll", please desist from going round and round in circles like this.

--
Guy Barry

[Guy Barry]

"Dutch" wrote in message news:86Qqv.64193$vf1....@fx06.iad...

>I haven't insulted you, please accord me the same respect.

There are many threads on the group apart from this one, on a variety of
topics both related and unrelated to English usage. I suggest you take part
in a few of the others, or start a new one of your own, since at the moment
you appear to be interested only in this one particular issue.

--
Guy Barry

[Dutch]

Guy Barry wrote:
> "Dutch" wrote in message news:lRKqv.130036$iF4....@fx18.iad...
>>
>> Lewis wrote:
>
>>> Fine, have at it, but this has been asked and answered many times.
>>> You're not adding anything here.
>>
>> Instead of launching into a sanctimonious lecture, which perhaps is
>> your specialty, maybe read other branches of the thread where real
>> insights into this use are being uncovered.
>
> Yes, and you keep ignoring them

I'm not ignoring them. When I have read cogent responses I have
acknowledged them as such. When I have disagreed with responses I have
done so politely and given reasons why.

> because you're convinced that the verb
> "humble" can only mean "humiliate" and nothing else.

That is not true, humiliate is a stronger word. Humble means to lower in
stature.

Here is M/W

: to make (someone) feel less important or proud : to make (someone) humble

: to easily defeat (someone or something) in a way that is surprising or
not expected

Other dictionaries show similar meanings. If you think it is defined as
something else then please quote it.

> There are a couple of other posters on this group who've gained a bad
> reputation because they're fixated on proving a particular point and
> dismiss the views of anyone who disagrees with them. If you don't want
> to gain a similar reputation, I suggest you broaden your outlook.

With respect, I think you're out of line, kindly stop lecturing me. I
enjoy digging into the nuances of English usage and most, not all, of
the responders in this thread have barely scratched the surface, which
is fine. Some have made interesting observations. Based on those replies
I will venture a perhaps clumsy interpretation. The person who says this
feels so much pride from this recognition that they are uncomfortable.
To paraphrase one response, it puts them in a category of which they
previously didn't consider themselves worthy, and maybe still don't. In
other words, they're saying "I'm not worthy." I do think that's what
they mean, and it will be officially accepted in lexicology as that
someday, but I still think at this time it is contrary to the true
meaning of "to be humbled".

It will be unusual, because it will mean the phrase will have two nearly
opposite meanings. I was humbled by the thrashing I took at tennis
today, I was humbled by the trophy I received for tennis player of the year.

[Dutch]

The difference there, if there is one, is only of degree. To be caught
in a scandal one *ought* to feel humiliated and by saying he was merely
humbled by it was likely a case of Murdoch being too proud a man to
admit humiliation.

[Dutch]

Guy Barry wrote:
> "Dutch" wrote in message news:86Qqv.64193$vf1....@fx06.iad...
>>
>> Guy Barry wrote:
>
>>> It seems clear that the meaning intended in "I am humbled by this great
>>> honour" is definition 2, since definitions 1 and 3 make no sense in the
>>> context.
>>>
>>
>> 2. doesn't make sense either, how could a high honor cause one to be
>> meek or modest?
>
> This has been explained to you several times.
>
>> I can certainly understand a modest person receiving an award and I
>> can understand an award making one proud. To cause someone to be meek
>> is synonymous with humiliating them.
>
> Yes, you've said that several times.

No, I don't think so. I have not made any of those specific remarks
previously.

>> Again, I think you are simply buying into a reverse interpretation of
>> the word.
>
> This discussion is getting nowhere. If you don't want to be thought of
> as a "troll", please desist from going round and round in circles like
> this.

You are getting very close to being insufferable, please cease and
desist with this net nanny/self-appointed moderator role.

[Guy Barry]

"Dutch" wrote in message news:%nQqv.137500$517....@fx02.iad...

>Here is M/W
>
>: to make (someone) feel less important or proud : to make (someone) humble
>
>: to easily defeat (someone or something) in a way that is surprising or
>not expected
>
>Other dictionaries show similar meanings. If you think it is defined as
>something else then please quote it.

I have already done so. I am not going to keep repeating the definition
again and again because you disagree with it.

>> There are a couple of other posters on this group who've gained a bad
>> reputation because they're fixated on proving a particular point and
>> dismiss the views of anyone who disagrees with them. If you don't want
>> to gain a similar reputation, I suggest you broaden your outlook.
>
>With respect, I think you're out of line, kindly stop lecturing me.

Look, I don't want you to get off on a bad foot on this group, but if you
carry on the way you have been so far you're going to make yourself very
unpopular very quickly. Stop harping on about the same point all the time
and move on to something else.

--
Guy Barry

[Guy Barry]

"Dutch" wrote in message news:lyQqv.184255$T94....@fx16.iad...

>You are getting very close to being insufferable,

So are you. Are you going for some sort of record in making yourself
unpopular? It takes most posters several months in my experience.

Perhaps you should exercise a little humility.

--
Guy Barry

[Dutch]

Guy Barry wrote:
> "Dutch" wrote in message news:86Qqv.64193$vf1....@fx06.iad...
>
>> I haven't insulted you, please accord me the same respect.
>
> There are many threads on the group apart from this one, on a variety of
> topics both related and unrelated to English usage. I suggest you take
> part in a few of the others,

I may, I think I like this group. I certainly enjoy the topic and the
group seems lively.

> or start a new one of your own, since at
> the moment you appear to be interested only in this one particular issue.

I think the subject has pretty much run it's course and will die a
natural death, however if someone replies and I feel moved to respond
then respond I shall. But thanks for the invite.

[Dutch]

Guy Barry wrote:
> "Dutch" wrote in message news:lyQqv.184255$T94....@fx16.iad...
>
>> You are getting very close to being insufferable,
>
> So are you. Are you going for some sort of record in making yourself
> unpopular? It takes most posters several months in my experience.

How long did it take you? Not long I'm guessing..

> Perhaps you should exercise a little humility.

Right back atcha there skippy.

[Leslie Danks]

Not necessarily. If you really want to know what goes through the mind
of someone in that sort of position, you'd have to ask them. Many years
ago I won a marathon. It was a minor event and my time was respectable
for my age, though nothing to get excited about. Nonetheless, my
immediate feelings were exhilaration and feelings of greatness. After a
while, however, these were replaced by recognition of the fact that the
main reason I won was that nobody faster turned up on the day. That put
everything into perspective and was certainly "humbling" in the way
being discussed. Perhaps others in the group can report on how they
reacted to an occasion on which they were "Number 1" for a short while.

--
Leslie (Les) Danks (BrE)
There is a crack, a crack in everything,
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen

[Dutch]

Guy Barry wrote:
>
> Look, I don't want you to get off on a bad foot on this group, but if
> you carry on the way you have been so far you're going to make yourself
> very unpopular very quickly. Stop harping on about the same point all
> the time and move on to something else.

Who do you think you are? I realize this subject is boring to you, but I
initiated the thread because I am interested in the topic and I will
stop posting about when I decide, not when you dictate.

Seriously, what gall.

Don't you find it unusual that a phrase can have two virtually opposite
meanings? Can you quote another example of that?

[Leslie Danks]

Guy Barry wrote:

> "Dutch" wrote in message news:lyQqv.184255$T94....@fx16.iad...
>
>>You are getting very close to being insufferable,
>
> So are you. Are you going for some sort of record in making yourself
> unpopular? It takes most posters several months in my experience.

<splork>

> Perhaps you should exercise a little humility.
>

--

[James Hogg]

Dutch wrote:
> I think the subject has pretty much run it's course and will die a
> natural death, however if someone replies and I feel moved to respond
> then respond I shall. But thanks for the invite.

Oy!

--
James

[Dutch]

Interesting, so you felt a rush of pride then soon fell back to earth. I
can relate to that. Thanks for the feedback, although I'm not sure that
Oscar recipients go though that particular train of thought.

Congratulations btw, that is quite an accomplishment.

[Guy Barry]

"Dutch" wrote in message news:iTQqv.62303$R01....@fx11.iad...

>
>Guy Barry wrote:
>>
>> Look, I don't want you to get off on a bad foot on this group, but if
>> you carry on the way you have been so far you're going to make yourself
>> very unpopular very quickly. Stop harping on about the same point all
>> the time and move on to something else.
>
>Who do you think you are? I realize this subject is boring to you,

Actually I find the topic quite interesting, and it's certainly made me
think.

>Don't you find it unusual that a phrase can have two virtually opposite
>meanings? Can you quote another example of that?

We discuss that sort of thing all the time on the group. We had a long
discussion a while ago about the phrase "get the door", which to me can only
mean "go to the door and find out who is there", but to some other speakers
can also mean "close the door".

--
Guy Barry

[CDB]

On 26/06/2014 4:32 AM, Leslie Danks wrote:
> Guy Barry wrote:

>> "Dutch" wrote:

>>> You are getting very close to being insufferable,

>> So are you. Are you going for some sort of record in making
>> yourself unpopular? It takes most posters several months in my
>> experience.

> <splork>

Before you wipe up, did you miss the snippage?

>>> please cease and desist with this net nanny/self-appointed
>>> moderator role