"I use the word advisedly"
Stan Brown
the dictionary definitions of "advisedly" don't help.
For example, in /Yes, Prime Minister/, Mr Hacker talks about the
"commissars" in Brussels: "And when I say 'commissar', I use the word
advisedly." What does he mean here by "advisedly"?
--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com
Shikata ga nai...
Bertel Lund Hansen
> For example, in /Yes, Prime Minister/, Mr Hacker talks about the
> "commissars" in Brussels: "And when I say 'commissar', I use the word
> advisedly." What does he mean here by "advisedly"?
On purpose, with intent.
--
Bertel, Denmark
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
<the_sta...@fastmail.fm> wrote:
>Can someone enlighten me? I've never been sure of the meaning, and
>the dictionary definitions of "advisedly" don't help.
>
>For example, in /Yes, Prime Minister/, Mr Hacker talks about the
>"commissars" in Brussels: "And when I say 'commissar', I use the word
>advisedly." What does he mean here by "advisedly"?
It means "With careful consideration; deliberately."
From:
http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/entry/advisedly
I'm not clear about the origin of this use. Perhaps the idea is that the
speaker has thought carefully about the choice of wording and taken his
or her own advice.
The OED says:
[Two forms are here:1 avisi-ly, f. avisè ADVISY + -LY2; 2 ADVISED +
-LY2. But as avisily was changed by various intermediate forms to
advisedly, it is convenient to treat the whole together.]
In an advised manner.
{Senses 1 to 3 are obsolete}
4. As the result of deliberation or thought; deliberately,
intentionally.
The entry for "advised" gives further clues about the origin:
advised, ppl. a.
[f. ADVISE + -ED. In its adjective use, an Eng. trans. of avisé (see
ADVISY).]
1. pple. Of persons: Having considered or pondered. to be advised:
to consider, reflect, to act after consideration. Const. of. Obs.
2. Hence adj. (in sense of the older avisé, advisee) Deliberate,
cautious, wary, judicious. Obs.
3. esp. with well or ill; both pple. as in 1, and adj. as in 2. Obs.
4. Of things: Considered, deliberate, intentional; hence well
considered, judicious. (Fuller contrasts these senses.) ill-advised:
injudicious.
5. Of persons: Purposed, determined. Cf. ADVISE 4. Obs.
6. Counselled. See ADVISE v. 9a, and d.
7. Informed, apprised, warned.
Today we mainly think of advice as being something that is given and
taken -- person A advises person B.
It seems that this was not the case originally. The words derive from
the Latin ad- (to) and various parts of the verb videre (to see).
This gave these now obsolete senses:
advice
1. The way in which a matter is looked at or regarded; opinion,
judgment. Obs.
2. Forethought, prudence, wisdom. Obs.
4. Weighing of opinions; consideration, deliberation, consultation,
reckoning. to take advice: to deliberate. Obs.
6. The result of consultation; determination, resolve, intention,
plan, design. Obs.
7. A decision of a deliberative body; an act; a Senatus consultum.
Obs. rare.
advise, v.
1. trans. To look at, view, observe, consider, watch; also, to watch
for. Obs.
b. absol. Obs.
c. To look to, provide for (cf. OFr. avisé, muni, doué, Godef.).
Obs. rare.
2. causal. To make (one) observe (a thing); also, To bring (a thing)
into view. Obs. (Cf. 10, 11.)
3. To look at mentally; to consider, think of, think over, ponder.
Obs.
b. Sc. Law. To consider together; to reconsider a verdict, to review
or revise. (Also called ‘taking into avizandum.’)
5. refl. To bethink oneself; take thought, consider, reflect. (Fr.
s'aviser.) Const. of, on, upon, subord. clause; also inf. phr.
implying caution. Obs. See also ADVISED 1.
6. intr. (by omission of refl. pron.) To take thought, consider,
reflect, ponder, deliberate. Obs.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
tony cooper
<the_sta...@fastmail.fm> wrote:
>Can someone enlighten me? I've never been sure of the meaning, and
>the dictionary definitions of "advisedly" don't help.
>
>For example, in /Yes, Prime Minister/, Mr Hacker talks about the
>"commissars" in Brussels: "And when I say 'commissar', I use the word
>advisedly." What does he mean here by "advisedly"?
He's emphasizing that he deliberately chose that word with full
knowledge of the meaning or connotation of that word.
The dictionary definition I pulled is: Adv. 1. advisedly -
with intention; in an intentional manner; "he used that word
intentionally"; "I did this by choice" by choice, by design,
deliberately, designedly, intentionally, on purpose, purposely
and is the definition I would have expected to find.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Uncle Ben
It would be quite different to punctuate it as, "I use the word
'advisedly'."
Amused and bemused,
Uncle Ben
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
<ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
>I'm not clear about the origin of this use. Perhaps the idea is that the
>speaker has thought carefully about the choice of wording and taken his
>or her own advice.
Having read the rest of my own posting I am now clearer.
Stan Brown
Hmm -- maybe I'm making this harder than I have to, or expecting a
more pointed meaning than there is. Are you saying that, in essence,
all he's saying is, "Yes, I really did mean to say 'commissar'"?
Donna Richoux
Yes, in the sense of, "I am aware of the full meanings and connotations
of this word, I am deliberately applying it to this situation, I am not
making a mistake, any wittiness in my application is on purpose and not
some inadvertent gaffe." In this case, it calls attention to the little
bit of wordplay.
I can see where "advisedly" might mean "on the advice of someone else."
But it doesn't seem to.
--
Best -- Donna Richoux
James Hogg
Yes, because it has Soviet connotations that make it seem more
appropriate to him than the correct "commissioner".
--
James
tony cooper
<the_sta...@fastmail.fm> wrote:
>On Thu, 10 Jun 2010 08:33:22 -0400, tony cooper wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, 10 Jun 2010 07:57:04 -0400, Stan Brown
>> <the_sta...@fastmail.fm> wrote:
>>
>> >Can someone enlighten me? I've never been sure of the meaning, and
>> >the dictionary definitions of "advisedly" don't help.
>> >
>> >For example, in /Yes, Prime Minister/, Mr Hacker talks about the
>> >"commissars" in Brussels: "And when I say 'commissar', I use the word
>> >advisedly." What does he mean here by "advisedly"?
>>
>> He's emphasizing that he deliberately chose that word with full
>> knowledge of the meaning or connotation of that word.
>>
>> The dictionary definition I pulled is: Adv. 1. advisedly -
>> with intention; in an intentional manner; "he used that word
>> intentionally"; "I did this by choice" by choice, by design,
>> deliberately, designedly, intentionally, on purpose, purposely
>>
>> and is the definition I would have expected to find.
>
>Hmm -- maybe I'm making this harder than I have to, or expecting a
>more pointed meaning than there is. Are you saying that, in essence,
>all he's saying is, "Yes, I really did mean to say 'commissar'"?
Yes, he's saying that "commissar" was a deliberate choice made with
full understanding of both the meaning and connotation of the word.
For the term to apply, the statement has to have something about it
that could be considered to be controversial. In this case, Hacker's
statement compared the people in Brussels to the iron-fisted political
administrators in Imperial Russia.
Also, for the term to apply, the description has to be in the area of
opinion rather than fact. You wouldn't say "Joe is, and I use this
term advisedly, an alcoholic" if it was common knowledge that Joe is
an admitted alcoholic. You would only employ the term if Joe's
alcoholism was not known to others but it is your personal opinion
that he is an alcoholic. There's no reason to use the term if no one
would question your application of the controversial word.
Stan Brown
Thanks, that's helpful. I was not considering "commissar" to be not
all that controversial, any more than (from the same speech) "some
bureaucratic Bonaparte in Brussels". I just took it for ordinary and
customary Brussels-bashing in early-1980s Britain. But now I see the
point.
Skitt
> tony cooper wrote:
>> Stan Brown wrote:
>>>Hmm -- maybe I'm making this harder than I have to, or expecting a
>>>more pointed meaning than there is. Are you saying that, in essence,
>>>all he's saying is, "Yes, I really did mean to say 'commissar'"?
>>
>> Yes, he's saying that "commissar" was a deliberate choice made with
>> full understanding of both the meaning and connotation of the word.
>>
>> For the term to apply, the statement has to have something about it
>> that could be considered to be controversial. In this case, Hacker's
>> statement compared the people in Brussels to the iron-fisted political
>> administrators in Imperial Russia.
>>
>> Also, for the term to apply, the description has to be in the area of
>> opinion rather than fact. You wouldn't say "Joe is, and I use this
>> term advisedly, an alcoholic" if it was common knowledge that Joe is
>> an admitted alcoholic. You would only employ the term if Joe's
>> alcoholism was not known to others but it is your personal opinion
>> that he is an alcoholic. There's no reason to use the term if no one
>> would question your application of the controversial word.
>
> Thanks, that's helpful. I was not considering "commissar" to be not
> all that controversial, any more than (from the same speech) "some
> bureaucratic Bonaparte in Brussels". I just took it for ordinary and
> customary Brussels-bashing in early-1980s Britain. But now I see the
> point.
Being a commissar sometimes isn't all it is cracked up to be. My dad was
one (in Latvia), briefly, in 1940/1941. He was in charge of all the
laundries and dry-cleaning establishments. The Soviets nationalized all
private businesses, you know, and someone had to be in charge. That,
however, didn't keep our family off the "To Be Relocated to Siberia" list.
They just didn't get around to us before the Germans drove them out of
Latvia, just in time.
--
Skitt
Seen it all, done it all,
Can't remember most of it.