what are goons and thugs?
keke
people".
I looked up the the English dictionary, and "goon" does imply stupid.
But in CNN's context, what's the commentator tried to say when he said
that the Chinese are basically the same "goons and thugs" for the past
50 years?
Can someone give me an example about what "goons and thugs" would do
in your sociey? Are those two types (goons and thugs) refer to the
same thing??
Thanks
Sam
They're relatively interchangeable. To me at least, goon is the less
criminal but more physical of the two, whereas thug is more likely to
be associated with lawbreaking. In both cases, the sense is of one
who performs physical violence at the direction of another. I guess
I'd also say that goons are likely to be stupider than thugs, but
neither term is associated with any intelligence.
V/R
Sam Melton
Tom Thumb
"Sam" <sbmel...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:ce7bb12d-a63b-4ae9...@8g2000hsu.googlegroups.com...
On Apr 17, 5:34 am, keke <jose.c...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In Chinese language papers, they were translated as "stupid an violent
> people".
>
> I looked up the the English dictionary, and "goon" does imply stupid.
>
> But in CNN's context, what's the commentator tried to say when he said
> that the Chinese are basically the same "goons and thugs" for the past
> 50 years?
>
> Can someone give me an example about what "goons and thugs" would do
> in your sociey? Are those two types (goons and thugs) refer to the
> same thing??
>
> Thanks
I fact, a thug was a member of the Thuggee, a sect which worshipped the
Indian goddess Kali. They worked in gangs befriending travellers then
killing them in remote spots and robbing them.
The word passed into English usage from the days of the Raj.
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
CDB
The terms were used loosely, and really mean only that he deplores the
actions of the Chinese government in Tibet, and has forgotten or is
willing to ignore the atrocities committed or encouraged by his own
government. I understand that CNN has since said, in a kind of
apology, that the words were directed at the government and not at the
people of China.
What he had in mind with respect to Chinese "goons and thugs", apart
from the current situation in Tibet, was no doubt some amalgam of the
invasion of Tibet in 1959, the Cultural Revolution, the Gang of Four
period, the Tiananmen Square incident, and the suppression of the
Falungong movement. Goons and thugs of the same type in my country
(Canada) suppressed the Metis rebellion, used lethal force to suppress
labour protests during the Great Depression, persecuted the Jehovah's
Witnesses (a religious sect), and (quite recently) attacked and killed
a confused foreigner in an airport, using taser fire. Our treatment
of indigenous cultures (for example, the mass killing of the dogs
Inuit depended on for mobility) has often been condemned, both inside
and outside the country.
The fact is that we are all sinners. Nevertheless, it is important to
continue putting pressure on governments everywhere, to make them
behave in a less oppressive and violent way. In China, in the
particular case that provoked CNN's outburst, people all over the
world hope that the government will earnestly, even generously, seek
accommodation with Tibetans who feel, with some justification, that
they are being overwhelmed by the powerful, worldly, and increasingly
pervasive culture of the Han.
Tibet has developed a culture that is unique in China and rare in the
world, and it ought to be possible to give it sufficient autonomy
within the Chinese state to preserve its essential virtues and to
bring its people into harmony with the larger state.
Don Phillipson
news:66471d25-e73e-4184...@l64g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> But in CNN's context, what's the commentator tried to say when he said
> that the Chinese are basically the same "goons and thugs" for the past
> 50 years?
>
> Can someone give me an example about what "goons and thugs" would do
> in your sociey? Are those two types (goons and thugs) refer to the
> same thing??
The etymology of both words is intriguing. . .
THUG was adopted by English from Hindustani, where Thuggee
was the name of a secret society of devotees of the death goddess
Kali, who customarily murdered (and robbed) travellers, killing them
by strangling with a sacred cord (cf. John Masters' novel The
Deceivers.) British authorities in India attempted to extirpate
the Thugs in the 19th century. The language adopted the word
thug to identify anyone menacing or brutal.
GOON emerged in the language in the 1930s, in a US
newspaper comic cartoon (by Al Capp?) of the inarticulate
muscular inhabitants of a Goon Island. British airmen
adopted the name Goon for the German guards of prisoner
of war camps. Americans used Goon Squad to identify a
group of men (either policemen or criminals) whose main
function was to intimidate or beat up other people. After
the Second World War the most popular surrealist radio
comedy show in Britain was called The Goon Show.
"Goons and thugs" thus seems redundant, but specifically
identifies the use of violence or the threat of violence.
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)
Mike Lyle
Wise words. I'd add the language point that "goon" is most often
attached to those employed by governments to use violence in
inappropriate situations, usually in the expression "goon squad".
--
Mike.
J. J. Lodder
> On Apr 17, 5:34 am, keke <jose.c...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > In Chinese language papers, they were translated as "stupid an violent
> > people".
> >
> > I looked up the the English dictionary, and "goon" does imply stupid.
> >
> > But in CNN's context, what's the commentator tried to say when he said
> > that the Chinese are basically the same "goons and thugs" for the past
> > 50 years?
That the 'forces of order' of the peoples republic of China
have always been dumb and brutish in their repression.
> > Can someone give me an example about what "goons and thugs" would do
> > in your sociey? Are those two types (goons and thugs) refer to the
> > same thing??
> >
> > Thanks
>
> They're relatively interchangeable. To me at least, goon is the less
> criminal but more physical of the two, whereas thug is more likely to
> be associated with lawbreaking. In both cases, the sense is of one
> who performs physical violence at the direction of another. I guess
> I'd also say that goons are likely to be stupider than thugs, but
> neither term is associated with any intelligence.
Both may be applied to police forces,
when they do to much beating up.
Best not to say that when they can get at you though,
Jan
PS And anyway, CNN has offered it's apologies by now,
so it should be considered not said.
Glenn Knickerbocker
> Can someone give me an example about what "goons and thugs" would do
> in your sociey? Are those two types (goons and thugs) refer to the
> same thing??
The distinction in my mind is that the goon is stupidly brutal and does
what the boss tells him, while the thug is willfully violent. But the
distinction isn't important in this expression. Taken together, they're
both gangsters. The two words are synonyms being used together for
amplification.
¬R
Glenn Knickerbocker
> GOON emerged in the language in the 1930s, in a US
> newspaper comic cartoon (by Al Capp?) of the inarticulate
> muscular inhabitants of a Goon Island.
E.C. Segar's "Thimble Theatre, Starring Popeye." The word had actually
shown up a little earlier (M-W says 1921) with the meaning of a stupid
person, coming from the same word "gooney" (earlier "gony") used to
describe big, clumsy sea birds.
ŹR
Athel Cornish-Bowden
> keke wrote:
>> Can someone give me an example about what "goons and thugs" would do
>> in your sociey? Are those two types (goons and thugs) refer to the
>> same thing??
>
> The distinction in my mind is that the goon is stupidly brutal and does
> what the boss tells him,
Agreed. For me a goon is definitely employed by someone to be brutal.
> while the thug is willfully violent. But the
> distinction isn't important in this expression. Taken together, they're
> both gangsters. The two words are synonyms being used together for
> amplification.
>
> ¬R
--
athel
Steve Hayes
Goons are heavies who beat people up at the behest of the leaders of organised
crime.
Thugs are people who beat people up, originally at the behest of the Hindu
goddess Kali, but now any excuse will do.
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
Mike Lyle
> On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 02:34:02 -0700 (PDT), keke <jose...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> In Chinese language papers, they were translated as "stupid an
>> violent people".
>>
>> I looked up the the English dictionary, and "goon" does imply stupid.
>>
>> But in CNN's context, what's the commentator tried to say when he
>> said that the Chinese are basically the same "goons and thugs" for
>> the past 50 years?
>>
>> Can someone give me an example about what "goons and thugs" would do
>> in your sociey? Are those two types (goons and thugs) refer to the
>> same thing??
>
> Goons are heavies who beat people up at the behest of the leaders of
> organised crime.
Or, as we said earlier in the thread, on the orders of the government.
Note, too, that "goons" as in the much-loved BBC radio comedy series of
the 1950s, /The Goon Show/, were surrealistically and freakishly crazy:
fools, not violent. I suppose we'd now have to call it something like
"The Kook Show" or "The Loon Show".
Not everybody knew the word at that time: a senior BBC manager once
referred to the series as "The Go On Show".
[...]
the Omrud
> Steve Hayes wrote:
>> On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 02:34:02 -0700 (PDT), keke <jose...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> In Chinese language papers, they were translated as "stupid an
>>> violent people".
>>>
>>> I looked up the the English dictionary, and "goon" does imply stupid.
>>>
>>> But in CNN's context, what's the commentator tried to say when he
>>> said that the Chinese are basically the same "goons and thugs" for
>>> the past 50 years?
>>>
>>> Can someone give me an example about what "goons and thugs" would do
>>> in your sociey? Are those two types (goons and thugs) refer to the
>>> same thing??
>> Goons are heavies who beat people up at the behest of the leaders of
>> organised crime.
>
> Or, as we said earlier in the thread, on the orders of the government.
>
> Note, too, that "goons" as in the much-loved BBC radio comedy series of
> the 1950s, /The Goon Show/, were surrealistically and freakishly crazy:
> fools, not violent. I suppose we'd now have to call it something like
> "The Kook Show" or "The Loon Show".
As I remember it, Milligan said that he took the name from the word used
by prisoners of war to refer to camp guards.
--
David
R H Draney
>
>Note, too, that "goons" as in the much-loved BBC radio comedy series of
>the 1950s, /The Goon Show/, were surrealistically and freakishly crazy:
>fools, not violent. I suppose we'd now have to call it something like
>"The Kook Show" or "The Loon Show".
Add violence, and you have have Stooges....r
--
What good is being an executive if you never get to execute anyone?
Steve Hayes
<mike_l...@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>Steve Hayes wrote:
>> Goons are heavies who beat people up at the behest of the leaders of
>> organised crime.
>
>Or, as we said earlier in the thread, on the orders of the government.
Sometimes it's hard to tell the difference -- like in Zimbabwe right now.
>Note, too, that "goons" as in the much-loved BBC radio comedy series of
>the 1950s, /The Goon Show/, were surrealistically and freakishly crazy:
>fools, not violent. I suppose we'd now have to call it something like
>"The Kook Show" or "The Loon Show".
Yes, but they were something different -- sui generis.
Chuck Riggs
wrote:
>Mike Lyle filted:
>>
>>Note, too, that "goons" as in the much-loved BBC radio comedy series of
>>the 1950s, /The Goon Show/, were surrealistically and freakishly crazy:
>>fools, not violent. I suppose we'd now have to call it something like
>>"The Kook Show" or "The Loon Show".
>
>Add violence, and you have have Stooges....r
If there's one thing I hate it's violins on TV shows.
--
Chuck Riggs
Near Dublin, Ireland
To unbung the following, take the mirror image of
31sggirkcuhc, then append what sounds like, but is not,
geemale dott calm, a service name you are probably familiar
with by now
Wood Avens
wrote:
>On 18 Apr 2008 09:19:28 -0700, R H Draney <dado...@spamcop.net>
>wrote:
>
>>Mike Lyle filted:
>>>
>>>Note, too, that "goons" as in the much-loved BBC radio comedy series of
>>>the 1950s, /The Goon Show/, were surrealistically and freakishly crazy:
>>>fools, not violent. I suppose we'd now have to call it something like
>>>"The Kook Show" or "The Loon Show".
>>
>>Add violence, and you have have Stooges....r
>
>If there's one thing I hate it's violins on TV shows.
And sax.
--
Katy Jennison
spamtrap: remove the first two letters after the @
Robert Lieblich
> >If there's one thing I hate it's violins on TV shows.
>
> And sax.
Thank you, Miss Litella, but Never Mind.
Wood Avens
Had to look that one up. Always happy to expand my cultural
references.