Neither use nor ornament

[Guy Barry]

How well known is this phrase? It's defined here:

http://www.usingenglish.com/reference/idioms/neither+use+nor+ornament.html

"Something that serves no purpose and is not aesthetically pleasing is
neither use nor ornament."

Some sites suggest that it's a mainly North of England expression, but I
think I've heard it in the south.

--
Guy Barry

[Harrison Hill]

On Jan 29, 2:50 pm, "Guy Barry" <guy.ba...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> How well known is this phrase?  It's defined here:
>

> http://www.usingenglish.com/reference/idioms/neither+use+nor+ornament...

>
> "Something that serves no purpose and is not aesthetically pleasing is
> neither use nor ornament."
>
> Some sites suggest that it's a mainly North of England expression, but I
> think I've heard it in the south.

I don't think I have ever heard it.

[Guy Barry]

"Harrison Hill" wrote in message
news:75a2264b-cb2a-4a48...@r14g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...

I mentioned it because it came up on another forum I follow. It's normally
used disparagingly:

"My mother says this all the time. Usually about me, but there you go."

Perhaps commoner amongst older people.

--
Guy Barry

[Harrison Hill]

I don't think we use the word "ornament" any more do we? Since
minimalism became fashionable, "bric-a-brac" has become "clutter".

[Guy Barry]

"Harrison Hill" wrote in message

news:d949c259-1d33-4a5d...@m12g2000yqp.googlegroups.com...

>I don't think we use the word "ornament" any more do we?

Well I do - certainly the adjective "ornamental".

--
Guy Barry

[Nick Spalding]

Guy Barry wrote, in <KkRNs.28004$qT....@fx12.fr7>
on Tue, 29 Jan 2013 14:50:19 -0000:

It's something I have heard occasionally for as long as I can remember
and I was brought up in the South of England.
--
Nick Spalding
BrE/IrE

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

I haven't noticed any regionality.

This says that the phrase was used by both Robert Louis Stevenson (_The
Beach of Falesa_ 1892) and Mary H. Kingsley (_Travels in West Africa_
1897:
http://www.phrases.org.uk/bulletin_board/48/messages/666.html

--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

[Robin Bignall]

On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 14:50:19 -0000, "Guy Barry"
<guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

It's certainly common in the midlands.
--
Robin Bignall
Herts, England (BrE)

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

Is it just me, or is this just a rather clumsy reworking of Gibbon's

Twenty-two acknowledged concubines, and a library of sixty-two thousand
volumes, attested the variety of his inclinations; and from the
productions which he left behind him, it appears that the former as
well as the latter were designed for use rather than for ostentation.


--
athel

[LFS]

Possibly a bit old-fashioned these days but I've heard it since my
childhood and use it occasionally. I have no Northern connections.

--
Laura
(emulate St. George for email)

[Harrison Hill]

Write down something you say nowadays with the word "ornament" in it
(not "ornamental") that doesn't make you sound like your own
grandmother!

[Cheryl]

I bought a new Christmas ornament this year.

She was upset when the child knocked over her ornament and broke it.

I suppose "She is an ornament of her profession" does sound a little
old-fashioned.

--
Cheryl

[Don Phillipson]

"Guy Barry" <guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:KkRNs.28004$qT....@fx12.fr7...

The phrase was widely used in the British military services 1940-60,
perhaps
also earlier and later.

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

[John Dean]

"Guy Barry" <guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:KkRNs.28004$qT....@fx12.fr7...

In common usage Oop North WIWAL. Haven't heard it for a while.

--
John Dean

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

Not only old-fashioned, but open to misinterpretation: more ornamental
than useful.

[Harrison Hill]

On Jan 29, 4:35 pm, Cheryl <cperk...@mun.ca> wrote:
> On 2013-01-29 1:02 PM, Harrison Hill wrote:
>
> > On Jan 29, 3:19 pm, "Guy Barry" <guy.ba...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> >> "Harrison Hill"  wrote in message
>
> >>news:d949c259-1d33-4a5d...@m12g2000yqp.googlegroups.com...
>
> >>> I don't think we use the word "ornament" any more do we?
>
> >> Well I do - certainly the adjective "ornamental".
>
> > Write down something you say nowadays with the word "ornament" in it
> > (not "ornamental") that doesn't make you sound like your own
> > grandmother!
>
> I bought a new Christmas ornament this year.

Perfectly grandmotherly to purchase one "Christmas decoration" every
five years!

> She was upset when the child knocked over her ornament and broke it.

Well yes, if you are a grandmother, that is exactly how you would
feel.

> I suppose "She is an ornament of her profession" does sound a little
> old-fashioned.

I haven't ever heard that one. "Ornaments" are great things, as are
grandmothers, as is investigating the bags (and the smells) in the
cupboard or cupboard-under-the-stairs; but like rugs on polished
floors, they no longer need rearranging! And that is a great pity!

[Katy Jennison]

This goes for me too. However, IME it is or was used derogatorily about
a person as often as about an object.

I probably don't say it myself all that much: if I want to convey that
sentiment (about an object) I'd be more likely to try to remember and
quote accurately William Morris's "Have nothing in your house that you
do not know to be useful or believe to be beautiful."

--
Katy Jennison

[Cheryl]

On 2013-01-29 1:37 PM, Harrison Hill wrote:
> On Jan 29, 4:35 pm, Cheryl <cperk...@mun.ca> wrote:
>> On 2013-01-29 1:02 PM, Harrison Hill wrote:
>>
>>> On Jan 29, 3:19 pm, "Guy Barry" <guy.ba...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> "Harrison Hill" wrote in message
>>
>>>> news:d949c259-1d33-4a5d...@m12g2000yqp.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>>>> I don't think we use the word "ornament" any more do we?
>>
>>>> Well I do - certainly the adjective "ornamental".
>>
>>> Write down something you say nowadays with the word "ornament" in it
>>> (not "ornamental") that doesn't make you sound like your own
>>> grandmother!
>>
>> I bought a new Christmas ornament this year.
>
> Perfectly grandmotherly to purchase one "Christmas decoration" every
> five years!

Well, admittedly they are usually bought by the dozen, but some people,
not exclusively grandparents, buy one special ornament each year. You
can get ones imprinted with the year, or expensive ones that appeal to
the collector who buys a new one from the set every year.

>> She was upset when the child knocked over her ornament and broke it.
>
> Well yes, if you are a grandmother, that is exactly how you would
> feel.

I think even someone completely unrelated to the child would be annoyed.
More so, perhaps, than a grandmother. Grandmothers sometimes dote on
their grandchildren and put up with far more carelessness from them than
they ever did from their children.

>> I suppose "She is an ornament of her profession" does sound a little
>> old-fashioned.
>
> I haven't ever heard that one. "Ornaments" are great things, as are
> grandmothers, as is investigating the bags (and the smells) in the
> cupboard or cupboard-under-the-stairs; but like rugs on polished
> floors, they no longer need rearranging! And that is a great pity!
>

--
Cheryl

[R H Draney]

Athel Cornish-Bowden filted:

I'd be more inclined to make the distinction "use or decoration"....

Or as Laverne (as in "and Shirley") once asked about a man's fancy pocket
handkerchief: "is that for showin' or for blowin'?"...r


--
Me? Sarcastic?
Yeah, right.

[Robin Bignall]

I'd better start looking for a B&B.

[Curlytop]

Guy Barry set the following eddies spiralling through the space-time
continuum:

There's probably a link somewhere to the Latin words around the edge of the
UK pound coins, when it's the turn for an English design to appear. DECUS
ET TUTAMEN, translated as "an ornament and a safeguard".
--
ξ: ) Proud to be curly

Interchange the alphabetic letter groups to reply

[Jerry Friedman]

On Jan 29, 1:02 pm, R H Draney <dadoc...@spamcop.net> wrote:
> Athel Cornish-Bowden filted:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >On 2013-01-29 15:50:19 +0100, "Guy Barry" <guy.ba...@blueyonder.co.uk> said:
>
> >> How well known is this phrase?  It's defined here:
>

> >>http://www.usingenglish.com/reference/idioms/neither+use+nor+ornament...

>
> >> "Something that serves no purpose and is not aesthetically pleasing is
> >> neither use nor ornament."
>
> >> Some sites suggest that it's a mainly North of England expression, but
> >> I think I've heard it in the south.
>
> >Is it just me, or is this just a rather clumsy reworking of Gibbon's
>
> >Twenty-two acknowledged concubines, and a library of sixty-two thousand
> >volumes, attested the variety of his inclinations; and from the
> >productions which he left behind him, it appears that the former as
> >well as the latter were designed for use rather than for ostentation.
>
> I'd be more inclined to make the distinction "use or decoration"....

...

A friend of mine used to say "decorative but not functional" about men
who were good-looking but not attracted to her.

--
Jerry Friedman

[Jerry Friedman]

On Jan 29, 10:07 am, Harrison Hill <harrisonhill2...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jan 29, 4:35 pm, Cheryl <cperk...@mun.ca> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 2013-01-29 1:02 PM, Harrison Hill wrote:
>
> > > On Jan 29, 3:19 pm, "Guy Barry" <guy.ba...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> > >> "Harrison Hill"  wrote in message
>
> > >>news:d949c259-1d33-4a5d...@m12g2000yqp.googlegroups.com...
>
> > >>> I don't think we use the word "ornament" any more do we?
>
> > >> Well I do - certainly the adjective "ornamental".
>
> > > Write down something you say nowadays with the word "ornament" in it
> > > (not "ornamental") that doesn't make you sound like your own
> > > grandmother!
>
> > I bought a new Christmas ornament this year.
>
> Perfectly grandmotherly to purchase one "Christmas decoration" every
> five years!

...

In my experience of American English, "Christmas ornaments" or
"Christmas tree ornaments" are the things people put on Christmas
trees. "Christmas decorations" are the wreaths and creches and so on
that people decorate with at Christmas time. I'm not sure whether the
decorations include the ornaments. I don't remember hearing either of
my grandmothers say either phrase.

--
Jerry Friedman

[Paul Wolff]

In message <amqacp...@mid.individual.net>, Athel Cornish-Bowden
<athe...@yahoo.co.uk> writes

>On 2013-01-29 15:50:19 +0100, "Guy Barry" <guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> said:
>
>> How well known is this phrase? It's defined here:
>>
>>http://www.usingenglish.com/reference/idioms/neither+use+nor+ornament.h
>>

>> "Something that serves no purpose and is not aesthetically pleasing
>>is neither use nor ornament."
>> Some sites suggest that it's a mainly North of England expression,
>>but I think I've heard it in the south.
>
>Is it just me, or is this just a rather clumsy reworking of Gibbon's
>
>Twenty-two acknowledged concubines, and a library of sixty-two thousand
>volumes, attested the variety of his inclinations; and from the
>productions which he left behind him, it appears that the former as
>well as the latter were designed for use rather than for ostentation.
>

I confess that my mind flipped that about, to imagine a library of
twenty-two books, and sixty-two thousand concubines; and I wondered if a
young man might not well prefer this option, reasoning that he could
always join a lending library, in the unlikely event that he was short
of things to do in the evening.
--
Paul

[Mac]

On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 15:22:13 +0000, Nick Spalding <spal...@iol.ie>
wrote:

William Morris and J.J. Hill would certainly approve.

Anthony "The passenger car is like..." McCafferty

[Richard Yates]

Yes, two kinds: musical and Christmas tree.

[Tony Cooper]

I've already brought up "lawn ornament". Still current.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawn_ornament
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

[Ian Jackson]

In message <h6qfg8h7cf5psajce...@4ax.com>, Nick Spalding
<spal...@iol.ie> writes

It was certainly common in NE England, and I reckon it's normal BrE.
These days, it has largely been replaced by "as useful as a chocolate
fireguard/teapot".
--
Ian

[Jack Campin]

>>> "Something that serves no purpose and is not aesthetically pleasing
>>> is neither use nor ornament."

>> It's something I have heard occasionally for as long as I can remember
>> and I was brought up in the South of England.
> It was certainly common in NE England, and I reckon it's normal BrE.
> These days, it has largely been replaced by "as useful as a chocolate
> fireguard/teapot".

Not very familiar to me (born in the south of England, grew up in NZ,
spent most of my life since in Scotland).

Is it derived from William Morris: "Have nothing in your houses that
you do not know to be useful or believe to be beautiful", or did Morris
rewrite the NE English phrase?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
e m a i l : j a c k @ c a m p i n . m e . u k
Jack Campin, 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU, Scotland
mobile 07800 739 557 <http://www.campin.me.uk> Twitter: JackCampin

[CDB]

On 29/01/2013 12:41 PM, Cheryl wrote:
> On 2013-01-29 1:37 PM, Harrison Hill wrote:
>> On Jan 29, 4:35 pm, Cheryl <cperk...@mun.ca> wrote:
>>> On 2013-01-29 1:02 PM, Harrison Hill wrote:
>>>> On Jan 29, 3:19 pm, "Guy Barry" <guy.ba...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

>>>>> "Harrison Hill" wrote:

>>>>>> I don't think we use the word "ornament" any more do we?

>>>>> Well I do - certainly the adjective "ornamental".

>>>> Write down something you say nowadays with the word "ornament" in it
>>>> (not "ornamental") that doesn't make you sound like your own
>>>> grandmother!

>>> I bought a new Christmas ornament this year.

>> Perfectly grandmotherly to purchase one "Christmas decoration" every
>> five years!

> Well, admittedly they are usually bought by the dozen, but some people,
> not exclusively grandparents, buy one special ornament each year. You
> can get ones imprinted with the year, or expensive ones that appeal to
> the collector who buys a new one from the set every year.

>>> She was upset when the child knocked over her ornament and broke it.

>> Well yes, if you are a grandmother, that is exactly how you would
>> feel.

> I think even someone completely unrelated to the child would be annoyed.
> More so, perhaps, than a grandmother. Grandmothers sometimes dote on
> their grandchildren and put up with far more carelessness from them than
> they ever did from their children.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

>>> I suppose "She is an ornament of her profession" does sound a little
>>> old-fashioned.

I might say it if I wanted to be slightly pretentious (ironically, or on
some very solemn occasion, or speaking to someone who would take it
well). I would say "ornament to", though.

[R H Draney]

Ian Jackson filted:

>
>>Guy Barry wrote, in <KkRNs.28004$qT....@fx12.fr7>
>> on Tue, 29 Jan 2013 14:50:19 -0000:
>>>

>>> "Something that serves no purpose and is not aesthetically pleasing is
>>> neither use nor ornament."
>

>It was certainly common in NE England, and I reckon it's normal BrE.
>These days, it has largely been replaced by "as useful as a chocolate
>fireguard/teapot".

Ah, the screen door in the submarine!...close relative to tits on a boar
hog....r

[Cheryl]

On 2013-01-30 11:58 AM, CDB wrote:
> On 29/01/2013 12:41 PM, Cheryl wrote:

>
>> I think even someone completely unrelated to the child would be annoyed.
>> More so, perhaps, than a grandmother. Grandmothers sometimes dote on
>> their grandchildren and put up with far more carelessness from them than
>> they ever did from their children.
>
> The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

Or, as my grandmother once offended her daughter by saying "You put up
with your children so you can enjoy your grandchildren."

>>>> I suppose "She is an ornament of her profession" does sound a little
>>>> old-fashioned.
>
> I might say it if I wanted to be slightly pretentious (ironically, or on
> some very solemn occasion, or speaking to someone who would take it
> well). I would say "ornament to", though.
>

I think I've heard "of" on the rare occasions I've come across it, but
I'm ready to accept I may be wrong.

--
Cheryl

[Tony Cooper]

I have never understood why people buy lawn ornaments like garden
gnomes and reflection balls.

[Skitt]

Tony Cooper wrote:

> I have never understood why people buy lawn ornaments like garden
> gnomes and reflection balls.

Yeah, this one is much better:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_JjrLYVbZ_fE/TJIB1jUeKqI/AAAAAAAABM8/PMxR_wYLE5o/s1600/ridiculous+lawn+ornaments.jpg

--
Skitt (SF Bay Area)
http://home.comcast.net/~skitt99/main.html

[Mac]

On Wed, 30 Jan 2013 12:31:03 +0000, Jack Campin
<bo...@purr.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>>>> "Something that serves no purpose and is not aesthetically pleasing
>>>> is neither use nor ornament."
>>> It's something I have heard occasionally for as long as I can remember
>>> and I was brought up in the South of England.
>> It was certainly common in NE England, and I reckon it's normal BrE.
>> These days, it has largely been replaced by "as useful as a chocolate
>> fireguard/teapot".
>
>Not very familiar to me (born in the south of England, grew up in NZ,
>spent most of my life since in Scotland).
>
>Is it derived from William Morris: "Have nothing in your houses that
>you do not know to be useful or believe to be beautiful", or did Morris
>rewrite the NE English phrase?

Unless Morris was a very precocious (antenatal is as prcocious as you
can get) writer, it predates him, but he and Yem Hill probably are the
ones who gave it widest circulation outside of its native stomping
grounds.

[Harrison Hill]

On Jan 30, 6:34 pm, Tony Cooper <tonycooper...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 08:32:03 -0800 (PST), Harrison Hill
>

> <harrisonhill2...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Jan 29, 3:19 pm, "Guy Barry" <guy.ba...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> >> "Harrison Hill"  wrote in message
>
> >>news:d949c259-1d33-4a5d...@m12g2000yqp.googlegroups.com...
>
> >> >I don't think we use the word "ornament" any more do we?
>
> >> Well I do - certainly the adjective "ornamental".
>
> >Write down something you say nowadays with the word "ornament" in it
> >(not "ornamental") that doesn't make you sound like your own
> >grandmother!
>
> I have never understood why people buy lawn ornaments like garden
> gnomes and reflection balls.

I have to concede "garden ornament", still sounding modern in BrE.

[Mike L]

You might like to run the Christmas episode of _Friday Night Dinner_
if the system will let you:
http://www.channel4.com/programmes/friday-night-dinner

British Jewish humour is incurably British.

--
Mike.

[Mike L]

On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 20:15:10 -0500, Tony Cooper
<tonyco...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 17:07:42 -0800, Richard Yates
><ric...@yatesguitar.com> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 07:14:05 -0800 (PST), Harrison Hill
>><harrison...@gmail.com> wrote:

[...]

>>>
>>>I don't think we use the word "ornament" any more do we?
>>
>>Yes, two kinds: musical and Christmas tree.
>
>I've already brought up "lawn ornament". Still current.
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawn_ornament

Of course it's current. Also garden ornament, dashboard ornament,
keyring ornament, etc, etc - right down to the derivative "pornament"
which I found I'd inferred correctly. These lads should get out a bit.

--
Mike.

[Mike L]

On Wed, 30 Jan 2013 11:12:02 -0800, Skitt <ski...@comcast.net> wrote:

>Tony Cooper wrote:
>
>> I have never understood why people buy lawn ornaments like garden
>> gnomes and reflection balls.
>
>Yeah, this one is much better:
>
>http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_JjrLYVbZ_fE/TJIB1jUeKqI/AAAAAAAABM8/PMxR_wYLE5o/s1600/ridiculous+lawn+ornaments.jpg

Very classical.

--
Mike.

[Katy Jennison]

"Lawn ornament" is enjoying a new lease of life as the insult-of-choice
for dwarfs in Terry Pratchett's Discworld.

--
Katy Jennison

[Mac]

Horace's "utile...dulce" is another jump-off, and obviously a little
older. So far, the oldest exact use I've found is Dr. Johnson, in a
letter to Hester Thrale. This seems to be from the 1760s.

"How for Heaven’s Sake Dearest Madam should any Man delight in a Wife
that is to Him neither Use nor Ornament? He cannot talk to you about
his Business, which you do not understand; nor about his Pleasures
which you do not partake."

Anthony "Anybody have Thraliana handy?" McCafferty

[R H Draney]

Tony Cooper filted:

>
>I have never understood why people buy lawn ornaments like garden
>gnomes and reflection balls.

That's easy; the stores were all out of jockeys and flamingos....r

[Peter Brooks]

Isn't seminal a tad more precocious?

[Ian Jackson]

In message <lg6jg8hdrd6q04rjb...@4ax.com>, Mike L
<n...@yahoo.co.uk> writes

An "ornament" and (a) "decoration" are two different things. An
"ornament" is a complete in itself - eg a fancy vase or jug, and which
is not really intended for normal use. A "decoration" is something which
is added to something which is rather plain or ordinary in order to make
it look more attractive.
--
Ian

[R H Draney]

Peter Brooks filted:

>
>On Jan 30, 9:16=A0pm, Mac <anmcc...@alumdotwpi.edu> wrote:
>> On Wed, 30 Jan 2013 12:31:03 +0000, Jack Campin
>>

>> >Is it derived from William Morris: "Have nothing in your houses that
>> >you do not know to be useful or believe to be beautiful", or did Morris
>> >rewrite the NE English phrase?
>>
>> Unless Morris was a very precocious (antenatal is as prcocious as you
>> can get) writer, it predates him, but he and Yem Hill probably are the
>> ones who gave it widest circulation outside of its native stomping
>> grounds.
>>
>Isn't seminal a tad more precocious?

I seed what you did there....r

[Guy Barry]

"R H Draney" wrote in message news:kedbu...@drn.newsguy.com...
>
>Peter Brooks filted:

>>Isn't seminal a tad more precocious?
>
>I seed what you did there....r

<giggle>

--
Guy Barry

[Django Cat]

Guy Barry wrote:

> How well known is this phrase? It's defined here:
>
> http://www.usingenglish.com/reference/idioms/neither+use+nor+ornament.

> html

>
> "Something that serves no purpose and is not aesthetically pleasing
> is neither use nor ornament."
>

> Some sites suggest that it's a mainly North of England expression,
> but I think I've heard it in the south.

Lot of northeners down there. They won't admit it, but they can't wait
to get away from the calamitous weather, chronic social deprivation and
endemic rickets you find up here.

DC

--

[Django Cat]

Harrison Hill wrote:

> On Jan 29, 3:19 pm, "Guy Barry" <guy.ba...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> > "Harrison Hill"  wrote in message
> >
> > news:d949c259-1d33-4a5d...@m12g2000yqp.googlegroups.c
> > om...
> >

> > > I don't think we use the word "ornament" any more do we?
> >

> > Well I do - certainly the adjective "ornamental".
>
> Write down something you say nowadays with the word "ornament" in it
> (not "ornamental") that doesn't make you sound like your own
> grandmother!

"She looked lost, forlorn. A menthol cigarette hung loosely from her
lips...". (From the forthcoming novela).

DC

--

[LFS]

<chortle>

--
Laura
(emulate St. George for email)

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle


--
athel

[Katy Jennison]

Your latest porn? Amen to that!

--
Katy Jennison

[Jerry Friedman]

Should we designate DC as our favorite author, or name Ntozake Shange
as someone we'd rather read?

--
Jerry Friedman

[LFS]

No, no! I hear that the struggles of the literary life are making DC
careworn: a mention of his efforts should cheer him up.

[Jerry Friedman]

I prefer to look at it phonetically. It's a choice between mergers:
BrE -a with -er, or NAmE -nts with -nce.

--
Jerry Friedman

[Adam Funk]

On 2013-01-30, Skitt wrote:

> Tony Cooper wrote:
>
>> I have never understood why people buy lawn ornaments like garden
>> gnomes and reflection balls.
>
> Yeah, this one is much better:
>
> http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_JjrLYVbZ_fE/TJIB1jUeKqI/AAAAAAAABM8/PMxR_wYLE5o/s1600/ridiculous+lawn+ornaments.jpg

Classy!


--
No sport is less organized than Calvinball!

[John Dunlop]

Guy Barry:

> How well known is this phrase? It's defined here:
>
> http://www.usingenglish.com/reference/idioms/neither+use+nor+ornament.html
>

> "Something that serves no purpose and is not aesthetically pleasing is
> neither use nor ornament."
>

> Some sites suggest that it's a mainly North of England expression, but I
> think I've heard it in the south.

More familiar is "No use to man nor beast".

--
John

[Guy Barry]

"John Dunlop" wrote in message
news:PM0004D4A...@john-dunlops-computer.lan...

Yes, that's commoner in my experience.

--
Guy Barry

[Ian Jackson]

In message <omTOs.30844$Uf1....@fx08.fr7>, Guy Barry
<guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> writes

To me, just another of the already-mentioned normal BrE alternatives.
--
Ian

[Mike L]

Yes, but it does have a rhyming version:
"When the wind is in the east,
'Tis good for neither man nor beast."

The fine fishing writer Jon Beer once mentioned that he'd gone out
onto the frozen Arctic sea with a guide to fulfil an ambition to catch
a fish through a hole in the ice. The hole duly bored, down went the
tackle; but after hours trying with no effect, the guide shook his
head, and said "It's because the wind is from the east."

--
Mike.

[Robert Bannister]

On 29/01/13 10:50 PM, Guy Barry wrote:
> How well known is this phrase? It's defined here:
>
> http://www.usingenglish.com/reference/idioms/neither+use+nor+ornament.html
>
> "Something that serves no purpose and is not aesthetically pleasing is
> neither use nor ornament."
>
> Some sites suggest that it's a mainly North of England expression, but I
> think I've heard it in the south.
>

In my head, it has a distinct Melton Mowbray accent.

--
Robert Bannister

[Robert Bannister]

On 31/01/13 3:12 AM, Skitt wrote:
> Tony Cooper wrote:
>
>> I have never understood why people buy lawn ornaments like garden
>> gnomes and reflection balls.
>
> Yeah, this one is much better:
>
> http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_JjrLYVbZ_fE/TJIB1jUeKqI/AAAAAAAABM8/PMxR_wYLE5o/s1600/ridiculous+lawn+ornaments.jpg
>

I think you'd need a very understanding wife.

--
Robert Bannister

[Robert Bannister]

On 30/01/13 6:57 AM, Paul Wolff wrote:
> In message <amqacp...@mid.individual.net>, Athel Cornish-Bowden
> <athe...@yahoo.co.uk> writes
>> On 2013-01-29 15:50:19 +0100, "Guy Barry" <guy....@blueyonder.co.uk>
>> said:
>>

>>> How well known is this phrase? It's defined here:
>>>
>>> http://www.usingenglish.com/reference/idioms/neither+use+nor+ornament.h
>>>

>>> "Something that serves no purpose and is not aesthetically pleasing
>>> is neither use nor ornament."
>>> Some sites suggest that it's a mainly North of England expression,
>>> but I think I've heard it in the south.
>>

>> Is it just me, or is this just a rather clumsy reworking of Gibbon's
>>
>> Twenty-two acknowledged concubines, and a library of sixty-two
>> thousand volumes, attested the variety of his inclinations; and from
>> the productions which he left behind him, it appears that the former
>> as well as the latter were designed for use rather than for ostentation.
>>
> I confess that my mind flipped that about, to imagine a library of
> twenty-two books, and sixty-two thousand concubines; and I wondered if a
> young man might not well prefer this option, reasoning that he could
> always join a lending library, in the unlikely event that he was short
> of things to do in the evening.

It is actually possible to make use of one of each kind at the same
time. Possibly more with practice, but plenty of exercise and a healthy
diet are strongly recommended.

--
Robert Bannister

[Dr Nick]

We borrowed that Tebbit guy's bicycle.

[Django Cat]

Quite right too. Keep the trains clear for the gentry.

DC

--

[Snidely]

Just this Wednesday, Katy Jennison explained that ...

It's a traditional term among horse owners.

/dps

--
But happiness cannot be pursued; it must ensue. One must have a reason
to 'be happy.'"
Viktor Frankl

[Snidely]

Snidely wrote on 2/18/2013 :
> Just this Wednesday, Katy Jennison explained that ...

er, that was the other Wednesday. It's now 30 something.

>> On 30/01/2013 22:19, Mike L wrote:
>>> On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 20:15:10 -0500, Tony Cooper
>>> <tonyco...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 17:07:42 -0800, Richard Yates
>>>> <ric...@yatesguitar.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 07:14:05 -0800 (PST), Harrison Hill
>>>>> <harrison...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> [...]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't think we use the word "ornament" any more do we?
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, two kinds: musical and Christmas tree.
>>>>
>>>> I've already brought up "lawn ornament". Still current.
>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawn_ornament
>>>
>>> Of course it's current. Also garden ornament, dashboard ornament,
>>> keyring ornament, etc, etc - right down to the derivative "pornament"
>>> which I found I'd inferred correctly. These lads should get out a bit.
>>>
>>
>> "Lawn ornament" is enjoying a new lease of life as the insult-of-choice for
>> dwarfs in Terry Pratchett's Discworld.
>
> It's a traditional term among horse owners.

Less so among goat owners.

/dps

--
Who, me? And what lacuna?