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'sappy' vs 'soppy' - same difference?
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occam
Sep 11, 2023, 1:37:30 AM9/11/23
to
I was under the impression that 'soppy' (UK) and 'sappy' (UK) were
cousins, the variation of the same word.
Apparently not, according to uninformed comment (wordpress).
https://uninformedcomment.wordpress.com/2010/08/25/sappy-soppy/
Sentimental it is then.
cousins, the variation of the same word.
Apparently not, according to uninformed comment (wordpress).
https://uninformedcomment.wordpress.com/2010/08/25/sappy-soppy/
Sentimental it is then.
Hibou
Sep 11, 2023, 3:20:55 AM9/11/23
to
Le 11/09/2023 à 06:37, occam a écrit :
>
> I was under the impression that 'soppy' (UK) and 'sappy' (UK) were
> cousins, the variation of the same word.
Just a wee correction: sappy (US).
>
> I was under the impression that 'soppy' (UK) and 'sappy' (UK) were
> cousins, the variation of the same word.
> Apparently not, according to uninformed comment (wordpress).
>
> https://uninformedcomment.wordpress.com/2010/08/25/sappy-soppy/
>
> Sentimental it is then.
Ross Clark
Sep 11, 2023, 7:35:44 AM9/11/23
to
On 11/09/2023 7:20 p.m., Hibou wrote:
> Le 11/09/2023 à 06:37, occam a écrit :
>>
>> I was under the impression that 'soppy' (UK) and 'sappy' (UK) were
>> cousins, the variation of the same word.
>
> Just a wee correction: sappy (US).
"Sappy (US)" means 'foolish, stupid' (a kind of harmless foolishness or
> Le 11/09/2023 à 06:37, occam a écrit :
>>
>> I was under the impression that 'soppy' (UK) and 'sappy' (UK) were
>> cousins, the variation of the same word.
>
> Just a wee correction: sappy (US).
stupidity). A _sap_ is (or was -- this is rather dated) a foolish person.
US _also_ has "soppy" = sentimental.
Peter T. Daniels
Sep 11, 2023, 9:44:02 AM9/11/23
to
On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 7:35:44 AM UTC-4, Ross Clark wrote:
> On 11/09/2023 7:20 p.m., Hibou wrote:
> > Le 11/09/2023 à 06:37, occam a écrit :
> >> I was under the impression that 'soppy' (UK) and 'sappy' (UK) were
> >> cousins, the variation of the same word.
> > Just a wee correction: sappy (US).
>
> "Sappy (US)" means 'foolish, stupid' (a kind of harmless foolishness or
> stupidity). A _sap_ is (or was -- this is rather dated) a foolish person.
One likely to fall for a con.
> On 11/09/2023 7:20 p.m., Hibou wrote:
> > Le 11/09/2023 à 06:37, occam a écrit :
> >> I was under the impression that 'soppy' (UK) and 'sappy' (UK) were
> >> cousins, the variation of the same word.
> > Just a wee correction: sappy (US).
>
> "Sappy (US)" means 'foolish, stupid' (a kind of harmless foolishness or
> stupidity). A _sap_ is (or was -- this is rather dated) a foolish person.
> US _also_ has "soppy" = sentimental.
Lionel Edwards
Sep 11, 2023, 10:47:31 AM9/11/23
to
On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 2:44:02 PM UTC+1, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 7:35:44 AM UTC-4, Ross Clark wrote:
> > On 11/09/2023 7:20 p.m., Hibou wrote:
> > > Le 11/09/2023 à 06:37, occam a écrit :
>
> > >> I was under the impression that 'soppy' (UK) and 'sappy' (UK) were
> > >> cousins, the variation of the same word.
> > > Just a wee correction: sappy (US).
> >
> > "Sappy (US)" means 'foolish, stupid' (a kind of harmless foolishness or
> > stupidity). A _sap_ is (or was -- this is rather dated) a foolish person.
> One likely to fall for a con.
> > US _also_ has "soppy" = sentimental.
> But not of a person.
In the 50s and 60s "soppy ha'porth" would josh somebody being over-
> On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 7:35:44 AM UTC-4, Ross Clark wrote:
> > On 11/09/2023 7:20 p.m., Hibou wrote:
> > > Le 11/09/2023 à 06:37, occam a écrit :
>
> > >> I was under the impression that 'soppy' (UK) and 'sappy' (UK) were
> > >> cousins, the variation of the same word.
> > > Just a wee correction: sappy (US).
> >
> > "Sappy (US)" means 'foolish, stupid' (a kind of harmless foolishness or
> > stupidity). A _sap_ is (or was -- this is rather dated) a foolish person.
> One likely to fall for a con.
> > US _also_ has "soppy" = sentimental.
> But not of a person.
sentimental in the UK. That disappeared with decimalisation.
We had the word "sap" for somebody gullible - easy to "gull" - but I think
that has died out as well. If you said "sappy" to me I'd think, "young, green,
flexible, full of sap".
occam
Sep 11, 2023, 1:05:22 PM9/11/23
to
On 11/09/2023 13:35, Ross Clark wrote:
> On 11/09/2023 7:20 p.m., Hibou wrote:
>> Le 11/09/2023 à 06:37, occam a écrit :
>>>
>>> I was under the impression that 'soppy' (UK) and 'sappy' (UK) were
>>> cousins, the variation of the same word.
>>
>> Just a wee correction: sappy (US).
>
> "Sappy (US)" means 'foolish, stupid' (a kind of harmless foolishness or
> stupidity). A _sap_ is (or was -- this is rather dated) a foolish person.
> US _also_ has "soppy" = sentimental.
Duolingo disagrees. They are using 'sappy' to mean exactly what UK
> On 11/09/2023 7:20 p.m., Hibou wrote:
>> Le 11/09/2023 à 06:37, occam a écrit :
>>>
>>> I was under the impression that 'soppy' (UK) and 'sappy' (UK) were
>>> cousins, the variation of the same word.
>>
>> Just a wee correction: sappy (US).
>
> "Sappy (US)" means 'foolish, stupid' (a kind of harmless foolishness or
> stupidity). A _sap_ is (or was -- this is rather dated) a foolish person.
> US _also_ has "soppy" = sentimental.
'soppy' would mean - sickly sweet sentimental expressions couples use
for each other e.g. 'honey bunny', 'sweetpea' etc.
Ross Clark
Sep 12, 2023, 1:39:50 AM9/12/23
to
On 12/09/2023 5:05 a.m., occam wrote:
> On 11/09/2023 13:35, Ross Clark wrote:
>> On 11/09/2023 7:20 p.m., Hibou wrote:
>>> Le 11/09/2023 à 06:37, occam a écrit :
>>>>
>>>> I was under the impression that 'soppy' (UK) and 'sappy' (UK) were
>>>> cousins, the variation of the same word.
>>>
>>> Just a wee correction: sappy (US).
>>
>> "Sappy (US)" means 'foolish, stupid' (a kind of harmless foolishness or
>> stupidity). A _sap_ is (or was -- this is rather dated) a foolish person.
>> US _also_ has "soppy" = sentimental.
>
> Duolingo disagrees. They are using 'sappy' to mean exactly what UK
> 'soppy' would mean - sickly sweet sentimental expressions couples use
> for each other e.g. 'honey bunny', 'sweetpea' etc.
I don't know much about Duolingo. Do they actually give a definition?
> On 11/09/2023 13:35, Ross Clark wrote:
>> On 11/09/2023 7:20 p.m., Hibou wrote:
>>> Le 11/09/2023 à 06:37, occam a écrit :
>>>>
>>>> I was under the impression that 'soppy' (UK) and 'sappy' (UK) were
>>>> cousins, the variation of the same word.
>>>
>>> Just a wee correction: sappy (US).
>>
>> "Sappy (US)" means 'foolish, stupid' (a kind of harmless foolishness or
>> stupidity). A _sap_ is (or was -- this is rather dated) a foolish person.
>> US _also_ has "soppy" = sentimental.
>
> Duolingo disagrees. They are using 'sappy' to mean exactly what UK
> 'soppy' would mean - sickly sweet sentimental expressions couples use
> for each other e.g. 'honey bunny', 'sweetpea' etc.
If they're just using it, they could be describing such expressions as
"stupid". If they are actually stating an opinion on what a word means
in USEng, what is their source?
occam
Sep 12, 2023, 2:02:25 AM9/12/23
to
On 12/09/2023 07:39, Ross Clark wrote:
> On 12/09/2023 5:05 a.m., occam wrote:
>> On 11/09/2023 13:35, Ross Clark wrote:
>>> On 11/09/2023 7:20 p.m., Hibou wrote:
>>>> Le 11/09/2023 à 06:37, occam a écrit :
>>>>>
>>>>> I was under the impression that 'soppy' (UK) and 'sappy' (UK) were
>>>>> cousins, the variation of the same word.
>>>>
>>>> Just a wee correction: sappy (US).
>>>
>>> "Sappy (US)" means 'foolish, stupid' (a kind of harmless foolishness or
>>> stupidity). A _sap_ is (or was -- this is rather dated) a foolish
>>> person.
>>> US _also_ has "soppy" = sentimental.
>>
>> Duolingo disagrees. They are using 'sappy' to mean exactly what UK
>> 'soppy' would mean - sickly sweet sentimental expressions couples use
>> for each other e.g. 'honey bunny', 'sweetpea' etc.
>
> I don't know much about Duolingo. Do they actually give a definition?
> If they're just using it, they could be describing such expressions as
> "stupid". If they are actually stating an opinion on what a word means
> in USEng, what is their source?
>
The 'definitions' of Duolingo come by way of examples of use. They use
> On 12/09/2023 5:05 a.m., occam wrote:
>> On 11/09/2023 13:35, Ross Clark wrote:
>>> On 11/09/2023 7:20 p.m., Hibou wrote:
>>>> Le 11/09/2023 à 06:37, occam a écrit :
>>>>>
>>>>> I was under the impression that 'soppy' (UK) and 'sappy' (UK) were
>>>>> cousins, the variation of the same word.
>>>>
>>>> Just a wee correction: sappy (US).
>>>
>>> "Sappy (US)" means 'foolish, stupid' (a kind of harmless foolishness or
>>> stupidity). A _sap_ is (or was -- this is rather dated) a foolish
>>> person.
>>> US _also_ has "soppy" = sentimental.
>>
>> Duolingo disagrees. They are using 'sappy' to mean exactly what UK
>> 'soppy' would mean - sickly sweet sentimental expressions couples use
>> for each other e.g. 'honey bunny', 'sweetpea' etc.
>
> I don't know much about Duolingo. Do they actually give a definition?
> If they're just using it, they could be describing such expressions as
> "stupid". If they are actually stating an opinion on what a word means
> in USEng, what is their source?
>
'sappy' in a number of contexts which require translation into French
(in my case). If I deviate from *their* understanding of 'sappy' I don't
get to move on to the next exercise.
Ross Clark
Sep 12, 2023, 7:35:00 AM9/12/23
to
some further looking.
Your original observation (citing uninformed comment) was that although
UK "soppy" and US "sappy" were more or less synonymous, they were not
mere dialect variants, but had separate histories. I think this is
correct. "Sop" and "sap" are not from the same root, at least as far as
Watkins is concerned. However, they do both refer to...um, juicy things,
and I think that they have traveled the same semantic pathway to arrive
at the sense "overly sentimental".
On the basis of a hasty consultation of Wentworth and Flexner
(Dictionary of American Slang, 1960), I said that USEng "sappy" did not
have the "sentimental" sense. I was wrong. (W&F probably just missed
it.) This sense is given both by my AHD (1973) and by the current M-W
online.
Also, UK has "sappy" for "foolish" (citations from 1670-) and "sap" for
"a fool, simpleton" (1815-, which they say is a shortening of "sapskull").
To tabulate:
"soppy" = "sentimental" UK + US
"sappy" = "foolish" UK + US
= "sentimental" US only
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