"Chinkazoid"

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Matt Davis

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Oct 31, 2003, 7:49:33 AM10/31/03
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Has anyone else come across the slang (possibly offensive) word "chinkazoid" to
describe an Oriental? It reminds me of the word "humanoid" - i.e. I think it has
alien connotations.

Cheers,

Matt


Spehro Pefhany

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Oct 31, 2003, 7:56:26 AM10/31/03
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Nothing "possibly" about it, and no.

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
sp...@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

Harvey Van Sickle

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Oct 31, 2003, 7:59:40 AM10/31/03
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On 31 Oct 2003, Matt Davis wrote

> Has anyone else come across the slang (possibly offensive) word
> "chinkazoid" to describe an Oriental? It reminds me of the word
> "humanoid" - i.e. I think it has alien connotations.

Never heard it, but I'd assume it is -- and is meant to be -- highly
offensive, as it combines a derogatory term with a derogatory suffix.

(I think the "-oid" forms are usually derogatory: for example,
interwar estates of bungalows were referred to as "bungaloid". The OED
dates that to 1927, from the _Daily Express_.)

--
Cheers, Harvey

Ottawa/Toronto/Edmonton for 30 years;
Southern England for the past 21 years.
(for e-mail, change harvey to whhvs)

John O'Flaherty

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Oct 31, 2003, 10:46:05 AM10/31/03
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On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 12:59:40 GMT, Harvey Van Sickle
<harve...@ntlworld.com> wrote:

>On 31 Oct 2003, Matt Davis wrote
>
>> Has anyone else come across the slang (possibly offensive) word
>> "chinkazoid" to describe an Oriental? It reminds me of the word
>> "humanoid" - i.e. I think it has alien connotations.
>
>Never heard it, but I'd assume it is -- and is meant to be -- highly
>offensive, as it combines a derogatory term with a derogatory suffix.
>
>(I think the "-oid" forms are usually derogatory: for example,
>interwar estates of bungalows were referred to as "bungaloid". The OED
>dates that to 1927, from the _Daily Express_.)

I think that would only apply to nonce words. The AHD shows more than
250 -oid compounds, and they're almost all technical. The only one
that's negative is 'tabloid', and its negativity is acquired.

--
john

Jerry Friedman

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Oct 31, 2003, 1:10:15 PM10/31/03
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John O'Flaherty <quia...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<hl05qvg5l1qg09ste...@4ax.com>...

Yup. Someone I played ultimate with in grad school was fond of
"chumpazoid", a derogatory nonce word. I suspect the -azoid suffix
that Matt also heard is based on "Betazoid", an alien species in
post-Classic _Star Trek_ (though apparently the Betazoids have such
admirable qualities as empathy and big breasts).

--
Jerry Friedman

sand

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Oct 31, 2003, 1:39:36 PM10/31/03
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Although many of the "oid" words are technical, some are in fairly
common usage.
celluloid
trapezoid
colloid
toroid
android
mastoid
ellipsoid
ovoid
crinoid
void
(at least these are familiar to me)

The rest are pretty technical. And I avoid them.

S&


Ray Heindl

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Oct 31, 2003, 4:10:50 PM10/31/03
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jerry_f...@yahoo.com (Jerry Friedman) wrote:

> Yup. Someone I played ultimate with in grad school was fond of
> "chumpazoid", a derogatory nonce word. I suspect the -azoid
> suffix that Matt also heard is based on "Betazoid", an alien
> species in post-Classic _Star Trek_ (though apparently the
> Betazoids have such admirable qualities as empathy and big
> breasts).

There's also a cartoon show called "Freakazoid", but I have no idea how
its timing compares to the Betazoids'.

--
Ray Heindl
(remove the X to reply)

Ben Zimmer

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Oct 31, 2003, 2:43:42 AM10/31/03
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You neglect to mention the now-discarded racial categories of old:
"Caucasoid", "Mongoloid", "Negroid", and "Australoid". Of these,
"Mongoloid" took on a special derogatory sense when applied to sufferers
of Down's syndrome.

I don't think there's a direct link between these racial terms and
"Chinkazoid". US teen slang has had many such "-azoid" neologisms since
the '80s-- perhaps the pronunciation of "Caucasoid" as ['kOk@zOid] had
some early influence, or more likely "trapezoid" had something to do
with it. In any case, the earliest form that I can find is
"Freak-A-Zoid", the title of a 1983 funk hit by the group Midnight
Star. "Freakazoid" (and its companion "geekazoid") entered mid-'80s
lingo, sometimes shortened to "zoid" (as in the 1986 teen flick "Pretty
in Pink").

There was also a line of motorized monster toys in the '80s called
"Zoids", but I don't think that was short for anything (I believe they
were supposed to be from the planet "Zi"). Similarly, the Betazoids of
"Star Trek: The Next Generation" (1987) hailed from the planet Betazed.

R F

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Nov 1, 2003, 3:11:06 AM11/1/03
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On Fri, 31 Oct 2003, Ben Zimmer wrote:

> I don't think there's a direct link between these racial terms and
> "Chinkazoid". US teen slang has had many such "-azoid" neologisms since
> the '80s-- perhaps the pronunciation of "Caucasoid" as ['kOk@zOid] had
> some early influence, or more likely "trapezoid" had something to do
> with it. In any case, the earliest form that I can find is
> "Freak-A-Zoid", the title of a 1983 funk hit by the group Midnight
> Star. "Freakazoid" (and its companion "geekazoid") entered mid-'80s
> lingo, sometimes shortened to "zoid" (as in the 1986 teen flick "Pretty
> in Pink").
>
> There was also a line of motorized monster toys in the '80s called
> "Zoids", but I don't think that was short for anything (I believe they
> were supposed to be from the planet "Zi"). Similarly, the Betazoids of
> "Star Trek: The Next Generation" (1987) hailed from the planet Betazed.

I'm not really familiar with these latter-day slang "zoid" terms, other
than "Freakazoid", but I'm dead sure that back in the 'Seventies the
-ozoid or -azoid suffix was commonly used in certain kinds of children's
television shows -- like science-fiction-y cartoons and such, I think the
suffix being one that generally suggested alienness and/or roboticness.
Unfortunately I can't think of a specific example (and it's possible that
my "'Seventies" really means the very early 'Eighties).

Ben Zimmer

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Nov 1, 2003, 4:10:25 AM11/1/03
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Upon further investigation I see that Midnight Star were sci-fi buffs in
the Parliament-Funkadelic tradition. Their 1984 album "Planetary
Invasion" included the track "Body Snatchers", as described by
Washington Post music critic J.D. Considine: "The intro to 'Body
Snatchers' announces that 'Midnight Star is gonna show you 'zoids just
who we are' in exactly the sort of electronic monotone that made
'Freak-A-Zoid' such a sensation."

So whoever penned "Freak-A-Zoid" may very well have grown up on the
"science-fiction-y cartoons" you dimly remember.

iwasaki

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Nov 1, 2003, 9:39:14 AM11/1/03
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"Ben Zimmer" <bgzi...@midway.uchicago.edu> wrote in message >
>
> You neglect to mention the now-discarded racial categories of old:
> "Caucasoid", "Mongoloid", "Negroid", and "Australoid".

I still come across the word "Mongoloid" in the Japanese books
referring to the root of the Japanese and the Ainu people.
If they are derogatory words, what words do you use instead
in English?

--
Nobuko Iwasaki


Maria Conlon

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Nov 1, 2003, 3:34:34 PM11/1/03
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Jerry Friedman wrote:

> Yup. Someone I played ultimate with in grad school [...]

What does "play ultimate" mean? Is it a game and should it have been
capitalized? If not, it sounds rather racy. ("Didja, you know <snicker,
snicker> *play ultimate* with her?")

Maria Conlon

Robert Lieblich

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Nov 1, 2003, 3:38:08 PM11/1/03
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Probably "ultimate frisbee," as to which see
<http://www.whatisultimate.com/>. I was playing something very much
like ultimate frisbee in college, quite unofficially, in the late
Fifties, long before the "official" founding of the sport.

That other "ultimate" you mention wasn't easily available back then.

--
Bob Lieblich
Who would gladly have traded

Ben Zimmer

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Nov 1, 2003, 3:59:18 PM11/1/03
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Many population geneticists and physical anthropologists seeking a
genetic basis for "race" do continue to use these terms (e.g.,
"Mongoloid mtDNA component in Russians", the title of a recent article
in the Annals of Human Genetics). This genetic research is something of
a rehabilitation of older, discredited racial categorizations based on
observable physical characteristics. But the move by cultural
anthropologists to consider "race" a social construct has left these
terms in general disfavor.

The case of "mongoloid" with a lower-case m to describe those with
Down's syndrome is a separate issue-- the term "Down's syndrome" was
proposed c. 1961 to replace "mongolism", which was already considered
derogatory. The OED's latest draft entry for "mongolism" gives this
citation:

1961 Lancet 21 Oct. 935/1 Our contributors prefer Down's
syndrome to mongolism because they believe that the term
'mongolism' has misleading racial connotations and is
hurtful to many parents.

Woody Wordpecker

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Nov 1, 2003, 4:34:53 PM11/1/03
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On Sat, 01 Nov 2003 15:59:18 -0500, Ben Zimmer
<bgzi...@midway.uchicago.edu> said that iwasaki wrote:

> > "Ben Zimmer" <bgzi...@midway.uchicago.edu> wrote in message >

> > > You neglect to mention the now-discarded racial categories of old:
> > > "Caucasoid", "Mongoloid", "Negroid", and "Australoid".

> > I still come across the word "Mongoloid" in the Japanese books
> > referring to the root of the Japanese and the Ainu people.
> > If they are derogatory words, what words do you use instead
> > in English?

Is it proper to call the Ainu people Mongoloid? Don't they
look more Caucasian than Asian?

Brian Wickham

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Nov 1, 2003, 5:53:03 PM11/1/03
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On Sat, 1 Nov 2003 03:11:06 -0500, R F <rfon...@alumni.wesleyan.edu>
wrote:


>
>I'm not really familiar with these latter-day slang "zoid" terms, other
>than "Freakazoid", but I'm dead sure that back in the 'Seventies the
>-ozoid or -azoid suffix was commonly used in certain kinds of children's
>television shows -- like science-fiction-y cartoons and such, I think the
>suffix being one that generally suggested alienness and/or roboticness.
>Unfortunately I can't think of a specific example (and it's possible that
>my "'Seventies" really means the very early 'Eighties).

"Humanoid" is a common example from Science Fiction writing in the
1940s thru 1960s. I think every teenager who read SciFi in high
school in those days would instantly know that word and be inclined to
stretch it into new forms such as "Freakazoid".

Brian Wickham

iwasaki

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Nov 2, 2003, 8:46:48 AM11/2/03
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"Ben Zimmer" <bgzi...@midway.uchicago.edu> wrote in message
>[...]

> The case of "mongoloid" with a lower-case m to describe those with
> Down's syndrome is a separate issue-- the term "Down's syndrome" was
> proposed c. 1961 to replace "mongolism", which was already considered
> derogatory. The OED's latest draft entry for "mongolism" gives this
> citation:
>
> 1961 Lancet 21 Oct. 935/1 Our contributors prefer Down's
> syndrome to mongolism because they believe that the term
> 'mongolism' has misleading racial connotations and is
> hurtful to many parents.

Same here. "Down's syndrome" used to be called _môkoshô_
("Mongolian syndrome"), but now it's replaced by _daunshô_
("Down's syndrome"). As for the upper-case "Mongoloid",
we use the different word for it (_mongoroido_), and it's
not considered derogatory (yet).

--
Nobuko Iwasaki


iwasaki

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Nov 2, 2003, 8:48:50 AM11/2/03
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"Woody Wordpecker" <exw...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3n98qv050sli83isl...@4ax.com...

It depends on which theory you believe. Scholars have proposed
various theories like "Caucasoid Theory", "Mongoloid Theory",
"Oceania Race Theory", "Old Asian Race Theory", and "Solitary
Race Theory", but the most recent and plausible hypothesis is
that Mongoloid people had two groups: Southern Mongoloid and
Northern Mongoloid. Several tens of thousands years ago, the
Southern Mongoloid moved into Japan first. And then around
from 300 B.C. to 600 A.D., a lot of Northern Mongoloid came to
Japan. The theory says that today's ethnic Japanese are the
mixed-blood of those Southern and Northern Mongoloid, while
the Ainu people were descended from the Southern Mongoloid,
not having the influence of the immigration of the Northern
Mongoloid.

> Don't they
> look more Caucasian than Asian?

Some of them, maybe. But most of them look like Asians. It
is said that today there is no "pure-blooded" Ainu person,
because of the mixed marriages with ethnic Japanese. I
probably can't tell Ainu people from Japanese people as well
as Japanese people from Chinese or Korean people.

--
Nobuko Iwasaki

J. W. Love

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Nov 2, 2003, 8:58:06 AM11/2/03
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Nobuko wrote:

>"Down's syndrome" used to be called _môkoshô_
>("Mongolian syndrome"), but now it's replaced by _daunshô_
>("Down's syndrome").

In English, <Down's syndrome> has changed to <Down syndrome>. Presumably, the
Japanese word remains the same.

Donna Richoux

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Nov 2, 2003, 9:12:34 AM11/2/03
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The British don't all agree on this one. There are UK organizations that
use different spellings. For example:

Down's Syndrome Association 2003
http://www.downs-syndrome.org.uk/

The Down Syndrome Educational Trust
http://www.down-syndrome.info/

--
Best -- Donna Richoux

R H Draney

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Nov 2, 2003, 10:06:37 PM11/2/03
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iwasaki filted:

>
>"Woody Wordpecker" <exw...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>news:3n98qv050sli83isl...@4ax.com...
>
>> Don't they
>> look more Caucasian than Asian?
>
>Some of them, maybe. But most of them look like Asians. It
>is said that today there is no "pure-blooded" Ainu person,
>because of the mixed marriages with ethnic Japanese. I
>probably can't tell Ainu people from Japanese people as well
>as Japanese people from Chinese or Korean people.

I generally avoid getting into discussions of things like this, but I've been
led to believe that the difference between (for example) Japanese and Chinese
features is less than the difference between individuals in either group...in
fact, there's a bit of pop culture that should have made some mention of the
differences, if they're that obvious:

In the "Ranma 1/2" series, the main character is a teenaged Japanese boy who,
because he once fell into a cursed spring where a Chinese girl died centuries
earlier, often turns into an exact likeness of her...much fun ensues as he tries
to hide the effects of this curse, but while other characters mention the
Chinese-style clothing he wears in both guises, none has ever commented that his
female form is that of a *Chinese* girl....

The cast of characters includes people from both countries, and I would have
thought that in a series that has run as long as this one, the author would have
made some use of that detail....r

iwasaki

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Nov 3, 2003, 8:40:07 AM11/3/03
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"R H Draney" <dado...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:bo4gn...@drn.newsguy.com...

> iwasaki filted:
> >
> >"Woody Wordpecker" <exw...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> >news:3n98qv050sli83isl...@4ax.com...
> >
> >> Don't they
> >> look more Caucasian than Asian?
> >
> >Some of them, maybe. But most of them look like Asians. It
> >is said that today there is no "pure-blooded" Ainu person,
> >because of the mixed marriages with ethnic Japanese. I
> >probably can't tell Ainu people from Japanese people as well
> >as Japanese people from Chinese or Korean people.
>
> I generally avoid getting into discussions of things like this, but I've
been
> led to believe that the difference between (for example) Japanese and
Chinese
> features is less than the difference between individuals in either group.

I agree with you. That's exactly what I have always thought.

One question about English usage. What I wanted to say was
"I can't tell Japanese people from Chinese or Korean people.
I can't tell Ainu people from Japanese people, either",
but your comment makes me wonder if my sentence was okay.
Actually I was not sure how to put "as well as" in a negative
sentence. Should I have written like "I can't tell Ainu people
from Japanese people as well as I can't tell Japanese people
from Chinese or Korean people"?

> ..in
> fact, there's a bit of pop culture that should have made some mention of
the
> differences, if they're that obvious:
>
> In the "Ranma 1/2" series, the main character is a teenaged Japanese boy
who,
> because he once fell into a cursed spring where a Chinese girl died
centuries
> earlier, often turns into an exact likeness of her...much fun ensues as he
tries
> to hide the effects of this curse, but while other characters mention the
> Chinese-style clothing he wears in both guises, none has ever commented
that his
> female form is that of a *Chinese* girl....
>
> The cast of characters includes people from both countries, and I would
have
> thought that in a series that has run as long as this one, the author
would have
> made some use of that detail....r

A lot of Japanese "orphans" were adopted by Chinese people just
after the WWII. They were brought up as Chinese, and in most cases
it was a secret that they were Japanese. Of course people around
them did not notice that they were Japanese.

Aren't they cute, Rumiko Takahashi's characters? She has now
a series called _Inuyasha_ in _Shonen Sunday_. I think it has
continued for 6 or 7 years. Maybe more. It's a story about a
boy, a half human and a half goblin.

--
Nobuko Iwasaki


Jerry Friedman

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Nov 3, 2003, 11:33:25 AM11/3/03
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Robert Lieblich <Robert....@Verizon.net> wrote in message news:<3FA419B0...@Verizon.net>...

> Maria Conlon wrote:
> >
> > Jerry Friedman wrote:
> >
> > > Yup. Someone I played ultimate with in grad school [...]
> >
> > What does "play ultimate" mean? Is it a game and should it have been
> > capitalized? If not, it sounds rather racy. ("Didja, you know <snicker,
> > snicker> *play ultimate* with her?")
>
> Probably "ultimate frisbee," as to which see
> <http://www.whatisultimate.com/>.
...

Yep. I thought about capitalizing it, but we don't capitalize the
name of the game in "play chess" or "play football", so I didn't.

> I was playing something very much
> like ultimate frisbee in college, quite unofficially, in the late
> Fifties, long before the "official" founding of the sport.

A pioneer! But the idea is pretty obvious to people who have played
American football, the other kind of football, either kind of hockey,
etc., and just some details need to be worked out.
...

--
Jerry Friedman

R H Draney

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Nov 3, 2003, 12:34:28 PM11/3/03
to
iwasaki filted:

>
>
>"R H Draney" <dado...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>news:bo4gn...@drn.newsguy.com...
>> iwasaki filted:
>> >
>> >I
>> >probably can't tell Ainu people from Japanese people as well
>> >as Japanese people from Chinese or Korean people.
>>
>> I generally avoid getting into discussions of things like this, but I've
>been
>> led to believe that the difference between (for example) Japanese and
>Chinese
>> features is less than the difference between individuals in either group.
>
>I agree with you. That's exactly what I have always thought.
>
>One question about English usage. What I wanted to say was
>"I can't tell Japanese people from Chinese or Korean people.
>I can't tell Ainu people from Japanese people, either",
>but your comment makes me wonder if my sentence was okay.
>Actually I was not sure how to put "as well as" in a negative
>sentence. Should I have written like "I can't tell Ainu people
>from Japanese people as well as I can't tell Japanese people
>from Chinese or Korean people"?

Your sentence was perfectly fine on grammatical grounds, but it included one of
English's most insidious ambiguities..."as well as" could, in such a context, be
read as either "with the same degree of proficiency as" or "in the same manner
as"...I guessed the former, and I guessed wrong....

>A lot of Japanese "orphans" were adopted by Chinese people just
>after the WWII. They were brought up as Chinese, and in most cases
>it was a secret that they were Japanese. Of course people around
>them did not notice that they were Japanese.

That clears up my earlier confusion...thanks....

>Aren't they cute, Rumiko Takahashi's characters? She has now
>a series called _Inuyasha_ in _Shonen Sunday_. I think it has
>continued for 6 or 7 years. Maybe more. It's a story about a
>boy, a half human and a half goblin.

I'm aware of it, but it's not one I've followed...her earlier series have become
a source of running jokes in my office; we'll often refer to something as "the
<fill-in-the-blank> school of martial arts" after some of the ludicrous examples
in Ranma, and I've been known to break up a boring meeting by putting on the
highest falsetto I can manage to mimic Lum's "Darling!"....r

iwasaki

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Nov 4, 2003, 12:45:31 AM11/4/03
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"R H Draney" <dado...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:bo63j...@drn.newsguy.com...

Thank you for the explanation. I should be careful when I use
"as well as". I have written a sentence like "People in Akita
eat rabbits as well as French people."

> I'm aware of it, but it's not one I've followed...her earlier series have
become
> a source of running jokes in my office; we'll often refer to something as
"the
> <fill-in-the-blank> school of martial arts" after some of the ludicrous
examples
> in Ranma, and I've been known to break up a boring meeting by putting on
the
> highest falsetto I can manage to mimic Lum's "Darling!"....r

Cute. You could add "datcha!" at the end of every sentence
(with the highest falsetto voice).

--
Nobuko Iwasaki

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