to clock someone

[Quinn C]

"To clock someone" seems to have a meaning "to recognize someone,
or something about them".

I only very recently encountered this usage, several times only in
the specific meaning "recognize that someone is trans". Wiktionary
lists a separate meaning nr 7, example sentence: "A trans person
may be able to easily clock other trans people.‎"
<https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/clock#Verb>

Is this specific jargon in the trans scene, or does it extend to
other domains?

I'd say it's related to their meaning 4, "to take notice of, to
realise", example: "Clock the wheels on that car!‎".

But where does that come from in the first place? A generalization
of "measuring", similar to "check that hottie", which just came up
in another thread?

In 2001, Mike Lyle asked in this group, in a thread "around the
clock":

But why does "to clock" also mean "to look at"?

He didn't get an answer (that Google archived, at least).
<news:%%4j7.2206$T4.1...@www.newsranger.com>

Would you say that is also a related meaning, or maybe it was nr 4
above and he got it slightly wrong?

--
Ice hockey is a form of disorderly conduct
in which the score is kept.
-- Doug Larson

[Richard Tobin]

In article <3dnbk1vpdv5n$.d...@mid.crommatograph.info>,

Quinn C <lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:

>I'd say it's related to their meaning 4, "to take notice of, to
>realise", example: "Clock the wheels on that car!".
>
>But where does that come from in the first place? A generalization
>of "measuring", similar to "check that hottie", which just came up
>in another thread?

Presumably from the idea of a machine registering something,
like "clocking in".

-- Richard

[Harvey]

To" clock" someone also means to punch them, very hard.

--
Cheers, Harvey
CanE (30 years) & BrE (34 years), indiscriminately mixed

[Tony Cooper]

On Mon, 24 Oct 2016 23:57:35 +0100, Harvey <use...@whhvs.co.uk>
wrote:

>On Mon, 24 Oct 2016 22:33:44 +0000 (UTC), ric...@cogsci.ed.ac.uk
>(Richard Tobin) wrote:
>> In article <3dnbk1vpdv5n$.d...@mid.crommatograph.info>,
>> Quinn C <lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:
>
>> >I'd say it's related to their meaning 4, "to take notice of, to
>> >realise", example: "Clock the wheels on that car!".
>> >
>> >But where does that come from in the first place? A generalization
>> >of "measuring", similar to "check that hottie", which just came up
>> >in another thread?
>
>> Presumably from the idea of a machine registering something,
>> like "clocking in".
>
>To" clock" someone also means to punch them, very hard.

This is w.a.g., but to clock someone - as in spot them - might come
from the fighter pilot's warning to another pilot of "(enemy) at two
o'clock".

There are many other uses of the clock face to indicate position and
to direct the eye to that position.

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

[Robert Bannister]

On 25/10/16 6:28 am, Quinn C wrote:
> "To clock someone" seems to have a meaning "to recognize someone,
> or something about them".

It can also mean "to smash someone in the face". I suspect the "look
at/see" meaning is related to "face" as well.

>
> I only very recently encountered this usage, several times only in
> the specific meaning "recognize that someone is trans". Wiktionary
> lists a separate meaning nr 7, example sentence: "A trans person
> may be able to easily clock other trans people.‎"
> <https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/clock#Verb>
>
> Is this specific jargon in the trans scene, or does it extend to
> other domains?
>
> I'd say it's related to their meaning 4, "to take notice of, to
> realise", example: "Clock the wheels on that car!‎".
>
> But where does that come from in the first place? A generalization
> of "measuring", similar to "check that hottie", which just came up
> in another thread?
>
> In 2001, Mike Lyle asked in this group, in a thread "around the
> clock":
>
> But why does "to clock" also mean "to look at"?
>
> He didn't get an answer (that Google archived, at least).
> <news:%%4j7.2206$T4.1...@www.newsranger.com>
>
> Would you say that is also a related meaning, or maybe it was nr 4
> above and he got it slightly wrong?
>


--

Robert B. born England a long time ago;
Western Australia since 1972

[Peter Moylan]

On 2016-Oct-25 09:57, Harvey wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Oct 2016 22:33:44 +0000 (UTC), ric...@cogsci.ed.ac.uk
> (Richard Tobin) wrote:
>> In article <3dnbk1vpdv5n$.d...@mid.crommatograph.info>,
>> Quinn C <lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:
>
>> >I'd say it's related to their meaning 4, "to take notice of, to
>> >realise", example: "Clock the wheels on that car!".
>> >
>> >But where does that come from in the first place? A generalization
>> >of "measuring", similar to "check that hottie", which just came up
>> >in another thread?
>
>> Presumably from the idea of a machine registering something,
>> like "clocking in".
>
> To" clock" someone also means to punch them, very hard.

That's the only meaning I know. Well, that plus using a stopwatch to
measure an athlete's performance.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

On Mon, 24 Oct 2016 18:28:58 -0400, Quinn C
<lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:

>"To clock someone" seems to have a meaning "to recognize someone,
>or something about them".
>
>I only very recently encountered this usage, several times only in
>the specific meaning "recognize that someone is trans". Wiktionary
>lists a separate meaning nr 7, example sentence: "A trans person

>may be able to easily clock other trans people.?"

><https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/clock#Verb>
>
>Is this specific jargon in the trans scene, or does it extend to
>other domains?
>
>I'd say it's related to their meaning 4, "to take notice of, to

>realise", example: "Clock the wheels on that car!?".

>
>But where does that come from in the first place? A generalization
>of "measuring", similar to "check that hottie", which just came up
>in another thread?
>
>In 2001, Mike Lyle asked in this group, in a thread "around the
>clock":
>
> But why does "to clock" also mean "to look at"?
>
>He didn't get an answer (that Google archived, at least).
><news:%%4j7.2206$T4.1...@www.newsranger.com>
>
>Would you say that is also a related meaning, or maybe it was nr 4
>above and he got it slightly wrong?

Further to the other replies:

OED:

clock, v.1.

3. To punch in the face; to hit. (Cf. clock n.1 5c) slang.

1941 S. J. Baker Pop. Dict. Austral. Slang 18 To clock, to
strike with the fist.

4. To watch or observe; to look at, notice. slang (orig. U.S.).

1942 L. V. Berrey & M. Van den Bark Amer. Thes. Slang §482/2
Look at; see, clock, decko,..take a gander (at), [etc.].


clock, n.1.

5.
b. slang. The human face. (Cf. dial n.1 3c.)
1923 ...

c. slang. A punch (on the face).
1959 N.Z. Listener 24 July 6/3 He might have a clock at him or a
kick at him.

{I wonder whether the "human face" sense is rhyming slang: "clock" from
"clock face" for "face"?}

--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

Oops! That is not technically rhyming slang although it shares a
characteristic with RS.

[CDB]

On 10/24/2016 6:28 PM, Quinn C wrote:

> "To clock someone" seems to have a meaning "to recognize someone, or
> something about them".

> I only very recently encountered this usage, several times only in
> the specific meaning "recognize that someone is trans". Wiktionary
> lists a separate meaning nr 7, example sentence: "A trans person may
> be able to easily clock other trans people.‎"
> <https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/clock#Verb>

To recognise them on sight, by looking at them, I think.

> Is this specific jargon in the trans scene, or does it extend to
> other domains?

> I'd say it's related to their meaning 4, "to take notice of, to
> realise", example: "Clock the wheels on that car!‎".

Better "look at".

> But where does that come from in the first place? A generalization
> of "measuring", similar to "check that hottie", which just came up
> in another thread?

> In 2001, Mike Lyle asked in this group, in a thread "around the
> clock":

> But why does "to clock" also mean "to look at"?

> He didn't get an answer (that Google archived, at least).
> <news:%%4j7.2206$T4.1...@www.newsranger.com>

> Would you say that is also a related meaning, or maybe it was nr 4
> above and he got it slightly wrong?

I assume it's from a use of "clock" to mean "face" (as in "clean his
clock" to mean "punch him in the face"). "Clock that" is "Turn your
face towards that." I've also heard the verb used to mean "to punch in
the face".

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

On 2016-10-24 22:57:35 +0000, Harvey said:

> On Mon, 24 Oct 2016 22:33:44 +0000 (UTC), ric...@cogsci.ed.ac.uk
> (Richard Tobin) wrote:
>> In article <3dnbk1vpdv5n$.d...@mid.crommatograph.info>,
>> Quinn C <lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:
>
>>> I'd say it's related to their meaning 4, "to take notice of, to
>>> realise", example: "Clock the wheels on that car!".
>>>
>>> But where does that come from in the first place? A generalization
>>> of "measuring", similar to "check that hottie", which just came up
>>> in another thread?
>
>> Presumably from the idea of a machine registering something,
>> like "clocking in".
>
> To" clock" someone also means to punch them, very hard.

Yes. That's what I thought its primary meaning was.

--
athel

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Tuesday, October 25, 2016 at 6:23:26 AM UTC-4, PeterWD wrote:

> OED:
>
> clock, v.1.
>
> 3. To punch in the face; to hit. (Cf. clock n.1 5c) slang.
>
> 1941 S. J. Baker Pop. Dict. Austral. Slang 18 To clock, to
> strike with the fist.
>
> 4. To watch or observe; to look at, notice. slang (orig. U.S.).
>
> 1942 L. V. Berrey & M. Van den Bark Amer. Thes. Slang §482/2
> Look at; see, clock, decko,..take a gander (at), [etc.].

I wish they wouldn't (as they often do) cite slang dictionaries as if
they were the primary data such as they usually cite.

If the dictionary they cite doesn't give sources for its listings,
then it isn't valid as a source of sources.

[Richard Tobin]

In article <25f9f987-937f-4c64...@googlegroups.com>,

Peter T. Daniels <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:

>> clock, v.1.
>>
>> 3. To punch in the face; to hit. (Cf. clock n.1 5c) slang.
>>
>> 1941 S. J. Baker Pop. Dict. Austral. Slang 18 To clock, to
>> strike with the fist.
>>
>> 4. To watch or observe; to look at, notice. slang (orig. U.S.).
>>
>> 1942 L. V. Berrey & M. Van den Bark Amer. Thes. Slang §482/2
>> Look at; see, clock, decko,..take a gander (at), [etc.].

>I wish they wouldn't (as they often do) cite slang dictionaries as if
>they were the primary data such as they usually cite.
>
>If the dictionary they cite doesn't give sources for its listings,
>then it isn't valid as a source of sources.

If it's the oldest example of the word (or a particular meaning of the
word), it provides evidence of how long it's existed which is not
provided by other sources.

-- Richard

[Peter T. Daniels]

It is not an example of the use of the word, it is an example of the
mention of the word. If OED gave the example given by the slang dictionary,
which may well be oral testimony, that would be fine.

[Richard Tobin]

In article <60a4aa3e-871c-4fdf...@googlegroups.com>,

Peter T. Daniels <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:

>> >I wish they wouldn't (as they often do) cite slang dictionaries as if
>> >they were the primary data such as they usually cite.
>> >
>> >If the dictionary they cite doesn't give sources for its listings,
>> >then it isn't valid as a source of sources.

>> If it's the oldest example of the word (or a particular meaning of the
>> word), it provides evidence of how long it's existed which is not
>> provided by other sources.

>It is not an example of the use of the word, it is an example of the
>mention of the word.

It's still evidence of when the word existed.

>If OED gave the example given by the slang dictionary,
>which may well be oral testimony, that would be fine.

Supposing of course that it had examples.

-- Richard

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Tuesday, October 25, 2016 at 9:40:04 AM UTC-4, Richard Tobin wrote:
> In article <60a4aa3e-871c-4fdf...@googlegroups.com>,
> Peter T. Daniels <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:

> >> >I wish they wouldn't (as they often do) cite slang dictionaries as if
> >> >they were the primary data such as they usually cite.
> >> >If the dictionary they cite doesn't give sources for its listings,
> >> >then it isn't valid as a source of sources.
> >> If it's the oldest example of the word (or a particular meaning of the
> >> word), it provides evidence of how long it's existed which is not
> >> provided by other sources.
> >It is not an example of the use of the word, it is an example of the
> >mention of the word.
>
> It's still evidence of when the word existed.

No, it isn't, if we don't see what the use was and why two sets of
lexicographers put it under a particular sense.

And, what good is it to know a date?

> >If OED gave the example given by the slang dictionary,
> >which may well be oral testimony, that would be fine.
>
> Supposing of course that it had examples.

If it doesn't, then how can it be considered a valid reference work?
Should OED cite Urban Dictionary?

[Charles Bishop]

In article <nunfo9$1uin$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, CDB <belle...@gmail.com>
wrote:

I've always read "clean his clock" as "give a severe beating" rather
than only a single punch. I suppose it could depend on whether the
single punch is strong enough to remove the opponent from any further
action. This was from context so I may have missed the intended
definition.

--
charles

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

On Tue, 25 Oct 2016 06:55:48 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"

<gram...@verizon.net> wrote:

>On Tuesday, October 25, 2016 at 9:40:04 AM UTC-4, Richard Tobin wrote:
>> In article <60a4aa3e-871c-4fdf...@googlegroups.com>,
>> Peter T. Daniels <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> >> >I wish they wouldn't (as they often do) cite slang dictionaries as if
>> >> >they were the primary data such as they usually cite.
>> >> >If the dictionary they cite doesn't give sources for its listings,
>> >> >then it isn't valid as a source of sources.
>> >> If it's the oldest example of the word (or a particular meaning of the
>> >> word), it provides evidence of how long it's existed which is not
>> >> provided by other sources.
>> >It is not an example of the use of the word, it is an example of the
>> >mention of the word.
>>
>> It's still evidence of when the word existed.
>
>No, it isn't, if we don't see what the use was and why two sets of
>lexicographers put it under a particular sense.
>
>And, what good is it to know a date?

I'm not familiar with the souces quoted by the OED. However, if those
are the earliest examples of the word in writing then it is completely
reasonable that they should be quoted.

I assume that old dictionaries of slang and dialect would include words
and phrases that the compilers knew existed in speech even though they
hadn't appeared in writing.

>
>> >If OED gave the example given by the slang dictionary,
>> >which may well be oral testimony, that would be fine.
>>
>> Supposing of course that it had examples.
>
>If it doesn't, then how can it be considered a valid reference work?
>Should OED cite Urban Dictionary?

[Quinn C]

* Peter Duncanson [BrE]:

> OED:
>
> clock, v.1.
>
> 3. To punch in the face; to hit. (Cf. clock n.1 5c) slang.
>
> 1941 S. J. Baker Pop. Dict. Austral. Slang 18 To clock, to
> strike with the fist.
>
> 4. To watch or observe; to look at, notice. slang (orig. U.S.).
>
> 1942 L. V. Berrey & M. Van den Bark Amer. Thes. Slang §482/2
> Look at; see, clock, decko,..take a gander (at), [etc.].

Decko? Maybe "dicko, decko, dandy" (from Island Spinning Song) is
more than just some funny syllables?

--
Skyler: Uncle Cosmo ... why do they call this a word processor?
Cosmo: It's simple, Skyler ... you've seen what food processors
do to food, right?
Cartoon by Jeff MacNelley

[Quinn C]

* Richard Tobin:

If not, it only shows that some lexicographers thought there was
such a word, but they might have been in error.

In this case there's little worry, as we have an original source
from a year later, but the general objection is valid.

--
WinErr 008: Erroneous error. Nothing is wrong.

[John Dawkins]

In article <3dnbk1vpdv5n$.d...@mid.crommatograph.info>,
Quinn C <lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:

> "To clock someone" seems to have a meaning "to recognize someone,
> or something about them".
>
> I only very recently encountered this usage, several times only in
> the specific meaning "recognize that someone is trans". Wiktionary
> lists a separate meaning nr 7, example sentence: "A trans person
> may be able to easily clock other trans people."
> <https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/clock#Verb>
>
> Is this specific jargon in the trans scene, or does it extend to
> other domains?
>
> I'd say it's related to their meaning 4, "to take notice of, to
> realise", example: "Clock the wheels on that car!".
>
> But where does that come from in the first place? A generalization
> of "measuring", similar to "check that hottie", which just came up
> in another thread?

In olden times, when every track coach had a stopwatch on a lanyard
around his neck, such a coach might "clock" one of his runners by timing
him running over a fixed distance. This specific meaning of "clock"
(assessing speed using a stopwatch) seems to have been extended to more
general forms of assessment.

> In 2001, Mike Lyle asked in this group, in a thread "around the
> clock":
>
> But why does "to clock" also mean "to look at"?
>
> He didn't get an answer (that Google archived, at least).
> <news:%%4j7.2206$T4.1...@www.newsranger.com>
>
> Would you say that is also a related meaning, or maybe it was nr 4
> above and he got it slightly wrong?
--

J.

[Richard Yates]

I might have come from the expression "to clean his clock" of which
the origin is no less mysterious.

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

On Tue, 25 Oct 2016 12:16:52 -0400, Quinn C
<lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:

>* Peter Duncanson [BrE]:
>
>> OED:
>>
>> clock, v.1.
>>
>> 3. To punch in the face; to hit. (Cf. clock n.1 5c) slang.
>>
>> 1941 S. J. Baker Pop. Dict. Austral. Slang 18 To clock, to
>> strike with the fist.
>>
>> 4. To watch or observe; to look at, notice. slang (orig. U.S.).
>>
>> 1942 L. V. Berrey & M. Van den Bark Amer. Thes. Slang §482/2
>> Look at; see, clock, decko,..take a gander (at), [etc.].
>
>Decko? Maybe "dicko, decko, dandy" (from Island Spinning Song) is
>more than just some funny syllables?

"Decko" seems to be a spelling of BrE "dekko".

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/dekko

dekko
noun
British
informal

[in singular] A quick look or glance.
‘come and have a dekko at this’

Origin
Late 19th century (originally used by the British army in India):
from Hindi dekho look!, imperative of dekhna.

OED:

dekko, n.
Etymology: < Hindi dekho, imperative of dekhna to look: compare deck
n.2
slang (orig. Army slang).

A look. Also as v., to look, look at.

1894 Daily News 8 Sept. 6/3, I had a ‘dekho’ round every ‘house’
in the place, but couldn't see you.
1917 A. G. Empey From Fire Step 232 ‘Dekko’, to look; a look at
something.
<etc>
1958 Observer 11 May 15/1 Once I'd grabbed hold of the script
and taken a good dekko at it, my worst fears were confirmed.
1961 J. Stroud Touch & Go xvi. 176 Phew! Dekko this, sir!

[Tony Cooper]

On Tue, 25 Oct 2016 09:17:34 -0700, John Dawkins <artfl...@aol.com>
wrote:

>In article <3dnbk1vpdv5n$.d...@mid.crommatograph.info>,
> Quinn C <lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:
>
>> "To clock someone" seems to have a meaning "to recognize someone,
>> or something about them".
>>
>> I only very recently encountered this usage, several times only in
>> the specific meaning "recognize that someone is trans". Wiktionary
>> lists a separate meaning nr 7, example sentence: "A trans person
>> may be able to easily clock other trans people."
>> <https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/clock#Verb>
>>
>> Is this specific jargon in the trans scene, or does it extend to
>> other domains?
>>
>> I'd say it's related to their meaning 4, "to take notice of, to
>> realise", example: "Clock the wheels on that car!".
>>
>> But where does that come from in the first place? A generalization
>> of "measuring", similar to "check that hottie", which just came up
>> in another thread?
>
>In olden times, when every track coach had a stopwatch on a lanyard
>around his neck, such a coach might "clock" one of his runners by timing
>him running over a fixed distance. This specific meaning of "clock"
>(assessing speed using a stopwatch) seems to have been extended to more
>general forms of assessment.

Not to mention the race horse trainer.

[Tony Cooper]

On Tue, 25 Oct 2016 12:16:52 -0400, Quinn C
<lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:

>* Peter Duncanson [BrE]:
>
>> OED:
>>
>> clock, v.1.
>>
>> 3. To punch in the face; to hit. (Cf. clock n.1 5c) slang.
>>
>> 1941 S. J. Baker Pop. Dict. Austral. Slang 18 To clock, to
>> strike with the fist.
>>
>> 4. To watch or observe; to look at, notice. slang (orig. U.S.).
>>
>> 1942 L. V. Berrey & M. Van den Bark Amer. Thes. Slang §482/2
>> Look at; see, clock, decko,..take a gander (at), [etc.].
>
>Decko? Maybe "dicko, decko, dandy" (from Island Spinning Song) is
>more than just some funny syllables?

Decko? Never seen that, but "have a dekko" is not uncommon.
Supposedly from the Hindi dekho (Look!) in Inja's sunny clime.

There is probably a bookfull of words and terms brought back to
England from the Raj.

[Quinn C]

* Peter Duncanson [BrE]:

> On Tue, 25 Oct 2016 12:16:52 -0400, Quinn C
> <lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:
>
>>* Peter Duncanson [BrE]:
>>
>>> OED:
>>>
>>> clock, v.1.
>>>
>>> 3. To punch in the face; to hit. (Cf. clock n.1 5c) slang.
>>>
>>> 1941 S. J. Baker Pop. Dict. Austral. Slang 18 To clock, to
>>> strike with the fist.
>>>
>>> 4. To watch or observe; to look at, notice. slang (orig. U.S.).
>>>
>>> 1942 L. V. Berrey & M. Van den Bark Amer. Thes. Slang §482/2
>>> Look at; see, clock, decko,..take a gander (at), [etc.].
>>
>>Decko? Maybe "dicko, decko, dandy" (from Island Spinning Song) is
>>more than just some funny syllables?
>
> "Decko" seems to be a spelling of BrE "dekko".
>
> https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/dekko
>
> dekko
> noun
> British
> informal
>
> [in singular] A quick look or glance.
> ‘come and have a dekko at this’
>
> Origin
> Late 19th century (originally used by the British army in India):
> from Hindi dekho look!, imperative of dekhna.

Thanks - in this case I assume that's too new to have found its
way into a "traditional Scottish song".

--
Press any key to continue or any other key to quit.

[Peter T. Daniels]

I would so assume, as well. I would also assume that said old dictionaries
are not widely available, so the supporting data they provide are what
the OED ought to include.

[Peter T. Daniels]

It's called *Hobson-Jobson* and it's one of the monuments of Anglo-Indian
scholarship. (Words peculiar to Indian English.)

Archeologists used to come home from Iraq saying "Shuf this!" from the
Iraqi Arabic imperative of the verb "to see," meaning 'look at this!'

[charles]

In article <3b9c96de-8900-4752...@googlegroups.com>,

Peter T. Daniels <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:

> On Tuesday, October 25, 2016 at 1:08:19 PM UTC-4, Tony Cooper wrote:
> > On Tue, 25 Oct 2016 12:16:52 -0400, Quinn C
> > <lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:
> > >* Peter Duncanson [BrE]:

> > >> OED:
> > >>
> > >> clock, v.1.
> > >>
> > >> 3. To punch in the face; to hit. (Cf. clock n.1 5c) slang.
> > >>
> > >> 1941 S. J. Baker Pop. Dict. Austral. Slang 18 To clock, to
> > >> strike with the fist.
> > >>
> > >> 4. To watch or observe; to look at, notice. slang (orig. U.S.).
> > >>
> > >> 1942 L. V. Berrey & M. Van den Bark Amer. Thes. Slang §482/2
> > >> Look at; see, clock, decko,..take a gander (at), [etc.].
> > >
> > >Decko? Maybe "dicko, decko, dandy" (from Island Spinning Song) is
> > >more than just some funny syllables?
> >
> > Decko? Never seen that, but "have a dekko" is not uncommon.
> > Supposedly from the Hindi dekho (Look!) in Inja's sunny clime.
> >
> > There is probably a bookfull of words and terms brought back to
> > England from the Raj.

> It's called *Hobson-Jobson* and it's one of the monuments of Anglo-Indian
> scholarship. (Words peculiar to Indian English.)

My copy is called "The Concise Hobson-Jobson - The Anglo-Indian Dictionary"

> Archeologists used to come home from Iraq saying "Shuf this!" from the
> Iraqi Arabic imperative of the verb "to see," meaning 'look at this!'

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

[Janet]

In article <3b9c96de-8900-4752...@googlegroups.com>,
gram...@verizon.net says...

"Have a shufti" is Br E slang, meaning the same as have a dekko.

Janet.

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

A close relative is "shufti", as in "have a shufti".

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/shufti

shufti
noun
British
informal

A look or reconnoitre, especially a quick one.
‘I'll take a shufti round the wood while I'm about it’

Origin
1940s (originally military slang): from Arabic šafa try to see.

The OED has these compounds:

shufti-kite n. a reconnaissance aircraft.
1944 T. H. Wisdom Triumph over Tunisia 172 When the Hun
shufti-kites were kept away..the U.S. Second Corps moved..to the
coastal stretch in the north.

shufti-scope n. a probe (see quots.).
1948 E. Partridge et al. Dict. Forces' Slang 169 Shuftiscope,
instrument used by doctors for exploring the interior of a
dysentery case. A telescope or periscope.
1962 Times 12 Apr. 9/4 When officers were making a routine check
of the vehicle with an instrument they call a ‘shufti-scope’ they
found the watches. Mr. Eaton explained that the ‘shufti-scope’ is
an instrument consisting of a probe with a light through which it
is possible to see into cavities.

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Tuesday, October 25, 2016 at 1:39:54 PM UTC-4, charles wrote:
> In article <3b9c96de-8900-4752...@googlegroups.com>,
> Peter T. Daniels <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
> > On Tuesday, October 25, 2016 at 1:08:19 PM UTC-4, Tony Cooper wrote:

> > > There is probably a bookfull of words and terms brought back to
> > > England from the Raj.
> > It's called *Hobson-Jobson* and it's one of the monuments of Anglo-Indian
> > scholarship. (Words peculiar to Indian English.)
>
> My copy is called "The Concise Hobson-Jobson - The Anglo-Indian Dictionary"

Mine is apparently unpotted, 1886 (repr. 1986, Calcutta, 1989 printing),
with 1,021 pages.

[James Wilkinson Sword]

On Tue, 25 Oct 2016 05:50:57 +0100, Peter Moylan <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

> On 2016-Oct-25 09:57, Harvey wrote:
>> On Mon, 24 Oct 2016 22:33:44 +0000 (UTC), ric...@cogsci.ed.ac.uk

>> (Richard Tobin) wrote:
>>> In article <3dnbk1vpdv5n$.d...@mid.crommatograph.info>,
>>> Quinn C <lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:
>>
>>> >I'd say it's related to their meaning 4, "to take notice of, to
>>> >realise", example: "Clock the wheels on that car!".
>>> >
>>> >But where does that come from in the first place? A generalization
>>> >of "measuring", similar to "check that hottie", which just came up
>>> >in another thread?
>>

>>> Presumably from the idea of a machine registering something,
>>> like "clocking in".
>>
>> To" clock" someone also means to punch them, very hard.
>

> That's the only meaning I know. Well, that plus using a stopwatch to
> measure an athlete's performance.

Or measure the speed of a driver before giving them a ticket.

--
What does a Polish woman do after she sucks a cock?
Spits out the feathers.

[James Wilkinson Sword]

On Mon, 24 Oct 2016 23:57:35 +0100, Harvey <use...@whhvs.co.uk> wrote:

> On Mon, 24 Oct 2016 22:33:44 +0000 (UTC), ric...@cogsci.ed.ac.uk
> (Richard Tobin) wrote:
>> In article <3dnbk1vpdv5n$.d...@mid.crommatograph.info>,
>> Quinn C <lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:
>
>> >I'd say it's related to their meaning 4, "to take notice of, to
>> >realise", example: "Clock the wheels on that car!".
>> >
>> >But where does that come from in the first place? A generalization
>> >of "measuring", similar to "check that hottie", which just came up
>> >in another thread?
>
>> Presumably from the idea of a machine registering something,
>> like "clocking in".
>
> To" clock" someone also means to punch them, very hard.

That's the only meaning I knew of. Also "to lamp".

[Yusuf B Gursey]

It's general Colloquial Arabic ("Neo*Arabic"), not peculiar
to Iraq, but not found in Classical Arabic.

[Ross]

But the two sources cited in the present thread, do not cite supporting data.
As a look at the titles might suggest: Baker's _Popular_ Dictionary of
Australian Slang, and the American _Thesaurus_ of Slang. They do, however,
provide evidence that a word was used with a certain sense at a certain
date. Both are listed as the earliest (not the sole) citation for that
sense. If that information doesn't interest you, that's not OED's problem.

[Sam Plusnet]

In article <aqcu0c10mout6p9sg...@4ax.com>,
ma...@peterduncanson.net says...
> >
> >{I wonder whether the "human face" sense is rhyming slang: "clock" from
> >"clock face" for "face"?}
>
> Oops! That is not technically rhyming slang although it shares a
> characteristic with RS.
>
>

"Boat race" is the more usual rhyming slang for face.

[Peter T. Daniels]

The etymology is totally obscure.

I was going to point out to the OED that it isn't Classical.

Is it conjugated as a u-stem everywhere?

[Peter T. Daniels]

That isn't "information." It's no more reliable than Urban Dictionary.

[Ross]

Sigh. So we're going to have to learn Peter's special understanding
of "information" now?

>It's no more reliable than Urban Dictionary.

Actually I think if you reflected in a sober moment on the
authorship and sources of these documents, you would realize
that this is nonsense.

But let me question your reductio. We suspect that some UD
entries are just made up by the contributors. So we don't
consider a single UD entry good evidence of what words are
used with what meaning right now.

Now imagine a future where we are investigating a slang term
which indisputably exists at that (future) time. We are looking
for its earliest occurrence, and we find that it is in a datable
UD entry. Surely that is legitimate evidence for the
lexicographer. What is the alternative? Do we suppose that
the UD contributor just invented a word/sense which, by an
amazing coincidence, emerged in reality a couple of years later?

Same applies to Baker and ATS on "clock". Did these people
somehow foresee a sense of the word which was not used
at the time they wrote, but was a few years later?

[Robert Bannister]

I think that is the difference between older slang dictionaries and the
Urban Dictionary that makes things up in order to be amusing.

--
Robert B. born England a long time ago;
Western Australia since 1972

[Robert Bannister]

On 26/10/16 12:16 am, Quinn C wrote:
> * Peter Duncanson [BrE]:
>
>> OED:
>>
>> clock, v.1.
>>
>> 3. To punch in the face; to hit. (Cf. clock n.1 5c) slang.
>>
>> 1941 S. J. Baker Pop. Dict. Austral. Slang 18 To clock, to
>> strike with the fist.
>>
>> 4. To watch or observe; to look at, notice. slang (orig. U.S.).
>>
>> 1942 L. V. Berrey & M. Van den Bark Amer. Thes. Slang §482/2
>> Look at; see, clock, decko,..take a gander (at), [etc.].
>
> Decko? Maybe "dicko, decko, dandy" (from Island Spinning Song) is
> more than just some funny syllables?
>

Decko, also dekko and originally dekho, is from Hindi.

[Robert Bannister]

But BrE "Have a shufti at this" was, I think, brought home from Egypt.

[David Kleinecke]

I'm sensitive to this situation because my etymology of
"pidgin" was rejected because my example was two hundred years
too early and thus only a coincidence.

[Quinn C]

* Harvey:

> On Mon, 24 Oct 2016 22:33:44 +0000 (UTC), ric...@cogsci.ed.ac.uk
> (Richard Tobin) wrote:
>> In article <3dnbk1vpdv5n$.d...@mid.crommatograph.info>,
>> Quinn C <lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:
>
>>>I'd say it's related to their meaning 4, "to take notice of, to
>>>realise", example: "Clock the wheels on that car!".
>>>
>>>But where does that come from in the first place? A generalization
>>>of "measuring", similar to "check that hottie", which just came up
>>>in another thread?
>
>> Presumably from the idea of a machine registering something,
>> like "clocking in".
>
> To" clock" someone also means to punch them, very hard.

Yes, that's why I wrote "to clock s.o. has a meaning ..." not "the
meaning". The "punch" meaning has been discussed here before, but
the "recognize" one hasn't. Apparently, it's much less known.

--
ASCII to ASCII, DOS to DOS

[Peter T. Daniels]

How do _we_ know how they arrived at the sense they give? If, like most
slang terms, it doesn't survive to be well-attested a couple of years
later, wouldn't it be useful to know where the ephemera came from, to
document them as fully as possible rather than like the mathematician
in the burning hotel room joke, "a solution exists"?

[Peter T. Daniels]

Could it be that you (Ross) have never worked with languages where the
only evidence is a handful of inscriptions that are, if you're lucky,
more than one clause long? There are ways of dealing with minimal data
that the field linguist working with informants for an extended period
of time -- and the luxury of return visits in case questions arise in
the analysis later -- doesn't face.

[Ross]

My point was that it was almost certainly not by gazing into a
lexicographic crystal ball. The most likely answer is: by
noticing usage around them at the time. Do you have some reason
for finding another answer more probable?

If, like most
> slang terms, it doesn't survive to be well-attested a couple of years
> later, wouldn't it be useful to know where the ephemera came from, to
> document them as fully as possible rather than like the mathematician
> in the burning hotel room joke, "a solution exists"?

Of course it would be good. But we have to work with what we have.

[Ross]

Perhaps you could explain a little more about what these methods are,
and how this would be relevant to the present discussion.

[Peter T. Daniels]

Why did they suppress that information?

> If, like most
> > slang terms, it doesn't survive to be well-attested a couple of years
> > later, wouldn't it be useful to know where the ephemera came from, to
> > document them as fully as possible rather than like the mathematician
> > in the burning hotel room joke, "a solution exists"?
>
> Of course it would be good. But we have to work with what we have.

What happened to the cardfiles of those unhelpful lexicographers?

[Peter T. Daniels]

No, Ross. I'm not going to provide you with a graduate course in, for instance,
Semitic epigraphy.

Suffice it to say that the Festschrift for Harvard's Thomas O. Lambdin was entitled
"Working with No Data"*, apparently referencing one of his favorite sayings (I
never met him, because he was shy [reclusive?] and didn't come to meetings, even
when they were in Boston/Cambridge).

[Janet]

In article <e09b2565-a1ac-4afd...@googlegroups.com>,
benl...@ihug.co.nz says...

>
> Sigh. So we're going to have to learn Peter's special understanding
> of "information" now?

Yes, it's a breakaway version of English with all new meanings and
definitions. Just make up your own, nobody cares:

Information

Parse

Algorithm

Pizza

Invented

etc

Janet.

[Tony Cooper]

I'm still struggling with "Intuits".

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

[David Kleinecke]

Weren't they once known as Eskimos?

[Charles Bishop]

In article <op.ypwjd...@red.lan>,

As in Punch their lights out?

--
charles

[James Wilkinson Sword]

Yes.

--
Researchers have recently unearthed the text of the first transcontinental telegraph message. Reportedly, it reads
ENLARGE YOUR MALE MEMBER STOP GUARANTEED RESULTS STOP ...

[Yusuf B Gursey]

In the prefix conjugation always as a u stem. In the
suffix conjugation some colloqiuals merge Classical
Arabic short /u/ and short /i/ as schwa ǝ

šāfa u stem in Classical Arabic means "he polished (it)"

while tašawwafa could either mean "he adorned himself"
or "he observed from from a distance"

[Yusuf B Gursey]

On Tuesday, October 25, 2016 at 8:41:40 PM UTC+3, PeterWD wrote:

> On Tue, 25 Oct 2016 10:27:40 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> >On Tuesday, October 25, 2016 at 1:08:19 PM UTC-4, Tony Cooper wrote:
> >> On Tue, 25 Oct 2016 12:16:52 -0400, Quinn C
> >> <lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:
> >> >* Peter Duncanson [BrE]:
> >
> >> >> OED:
> >> >>
> >> >> clock, v.1.
> >> >>
> >> >> 3. To punch in the face; to hit. (Cf. clock n.1 5c) slang.
> >> >>
> >> >> 1941 S. J. Baker Pop. Dict. Austral. Slang 18 To clock, to
> >> >> strike with the fist.
> >> >>
> >> >> 4. To watch or observe; to look at, notice. slang (orig. U.S.).
> >> >>
> >> >> 1942 L. V. Berrey & M. Van den Bark Amer. Thes. Slang §482/2
> >> >> Look at; see, clock, decko,..take a gander (at), [etc.].
> >> >
> >> >Decko? Maybe "dicko, decko, dandy" (from Island Spinning Song) is
> >> >more than just some funny syllables?
> >>
> >> Decko? Never seen that, but "have a dekko" is not uncommon.
> >> Supposedly from the Hindi dekho (Look!) in Inja's sunny clime.
> >>
> >> There is probably a bookfull of words and terms brought back to
> >> England from the Raj.
> >
> >It's called *Hobson-Jobson* and it's one of the monuments of Anglo-Indian
> >scholarship. (Words peculiar to Indian English.)
> >
> >Archeologists used to come home from Iraq saying "Shuf this!" from the
> >Iraqi Arabic imperative of the verb "to see," meaning 'look at this!'
>

> A close relative is "shufti", as in "have a shufti".
>
> https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/shufti
>
> shufti
> noun
> British
> informal
>
> A look or reconnoitre, especially a quick one.
> ‘I'll take a shufti round the wood while I'm about it’

šufti would be Colloquial Arabic "You (fem.) saw"


>
> Origin
> 1940s (originally military slang): from Arabic šafa try to see.

šāfa in Classical Arabic would be "He polished (it)" (rare)

"He saw" in Colloquial Arabic would be šāf since final vowels
are dropped. Thus *šāfa in the meaning of "He saw" is non-existent
or hyper-correct.

>
> The OED has these compounds:
>
> shufti-kite n. a reconnaissance aircraft.
> 1944 T. H. Wisdom Triumph over Tunisia 172 When the Hun
> shufti-kites were kept away..the U.S. Second Corps moved..to the
> coastal stretch in the north.
>
> shufti-scope n. a probe (see quots.).
> 1948 E. Partridge et al. Dict. Forces' Slang 169 Shuftiscope,
> instrument used by doctors for exploring the interior of a
> dysentery case. A telescope or periscope.
> 1962 Times 12 Apr. 9/4 When officers were making a routine check
> of the vehicle with an instrument they call a ‘shufti-scope’ they
> found the watches. Mr. Eaton explained that the ‘shufti-scope’ is
> an instrument consisting of a probe with a light through which it
> is possible to see into cavities.
>
>
> --
> Peter Duncanson, UK
> (in alt.usage.english)

[Sam Plusnet]

In article <upd11c1mr5ed62daf...@4ax.com>,
tonyco...@gmail.com says...

How about round tuits?

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Wednesday, October 26, 2016 at 1:25:47 PM UTC-4, David Kleinecke wrote:
> On Wednesday, October 26, 2016 at 7:01:53 AM UTC-7, Tony Cooper wrote:
> > On Wed, 26 Oct 2016 14:35:09 +0100, Janet <nob...@home.com> wrote:
> > >In article <e09b2565-a1ac-4afd...@googlegroups.com>,
> > >benl...@ihug.co.nz says...

> > >> Sigh. So we're going to have to learn Peter's special understanding
> > >> of "information" now?
> > > Yes, it's a breakaway version of English with all new meanings and

> > >definitions. Just make up your own, nobody cares:.

> > I'm still struggling with "Intuits".
>
> Weren't they once known as Eskimos?

No, Esktimos.

[Peter T. Daniels]

So a Form I with a basic meaning (conflicting with the original basic
meaning) could have been back-formated from an alternate sense
of a Form V? The standard "etym. unkn." is a bit more likely.

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Wednesday, October 26, 2016 at 2:18:40 PM UTC-4, Sam Plusnet wrote:
> In article <upd11c1mr5ed62daf...@4ax.com>,
> tonyco...@gmail.com says...

> > I'm still struggling with "Intuits".
>
> How about round tuits?

He'll get that eventually.

[Ross]

"Suppress"?? Jeez, you're in full paranoid mode again.
I gently alluded to the titles of the two works in question,
emphasizing a couple of words, assuming you would be able
to figure out why they did not include citations. Did I
overestimate your intelligence? No, I don't think so.
Your questions are simply a mode of endless divagation,
since you can't come up with any rational basis for your
objection to OED citing these sources.

> If, like most
> > > slang terms, it doesn't survive to be well-attested a couple of years
> > > later, wouldn't it be useful to know where the ephemera came from, to
> > > document them as fully as possible rather than like the mathematician
> > > in the burning hotel room joke, "a solution exists"?
> >
> > Of course it would be good. But we have to work with what we have.
>
> What happened to the cardfiles of those unhelpful lexicographers?

Why would you expect me to know, assuming they had any?

[Ross]

Nor, apparently, are you going to explain what this has to do with
the present topic of discussion.

[Janet]

In article <MPG.327b03d...@news.plus.net>, n...@home.com says...

I keep thinking I'll get one of those . Maybe later.

Janet

[Peter T. Daniels]

So now you're suggesting that they didn't base their "dictionaries" on
collected data that were recorded in searchable form, such as a card file,
but that they did in fact make them up, like Urban Dictionary?

> > If, like most
> > > > slang terms, it doesn't survive to be well-attested a couple of years
> > > > later, wouldn't it be useful to know where the ephemera came from, to
> > > > document them as fully as possible rather than like the mathematician
> > > > in the burning hotel room joke, "a solution exists"?
> > >
> > > Of course it would be good. But we have to work with what we have.
> >
> > What happened to the cardfiles of those unhelpful lexicographers?
>
> Why would you expect me to know, assuming they had any?

Because you're defendint the OED's use of them as if they provided actual
data about the slang they purport to record.

[Janet]

In article <7c95657b-11c7-4135...@googlegroups.com>,
gram...@verizon.net says...

Never underesktimate them. They can run faster than you can walk.

Janet

[Ross]

No, I'm not.

> > > If, like most
> > > > > slang terms, it doesn't survive to be well-attested a couple of years
> > > > > later, wouldn't it be useful to know where the ephemera came from, to
> > > > > document them as fully as possible rather than like the mathematician
> > > > > in the burning hotel room joke, "a solution exists"?
> > > >
> > > > Of course it would be good. But we have to work with what we have.
> > >
> > > What happened to the cardfiles of those unhelpful lexicographers?
> >
> > Why would you expect me to know, assuming they had any?
>
> Because you're defendint the OED's use of them as if they provided actual
> data about the slang they purport to record.

Let's see; false premise, followed by cack-logic, leads to bizarre
conclusion. No, I don't think you're that stupid. Just more distraction
from your failure.

[snide...@gmail.com]

All of mine are knotted.

/dps

[snide...@gmail.com]

Is "back-formated" a technical term? As a lay layperson,
I would have expected "back-formed".

/dps

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

Intuits or Esktimos, they just love their "t".

[Mark Brader]

"Janet":

> Yes, it's a breakaway version of English with all new meanings and
> definitions. Just make up your own, nobody cares:
>
> Information
>
> Parse
>
> Algorithm
>
> Pizza
>
> Invented
>
> etc
>
> Janet.

What's the new meaning of "Janet."?
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "Bacterium is the term for a single bacteria."
m...@vex.net |

[Mark Brader]

> > I'm still struggling with "Intuits".
>
> How about round tuits?

Here they are:

http://www.qsview.com/@44.530769,-63.752719,61.91h,4.12p,2.93z
http://www.qsview.com/@39.151851,-121.025547,60.02h,2.33p,2.93z
http://www.qsview.com/@33.124856,-96.492372,221.45h,0.09p,2.93z
http://www.qsview.com/@35.641663,-80.65295,99.73h,-2.96p,2.93z

And perhaps after all that travel it's time for this:

http://www.qsview.com/@41.913487,-73.540338,227.5h,0.22p,2.92z

(Google finds several other examples of businesses named similarly,
but in no other cases could I find ones with a sign identifying their
premises. Perhaps each of them either was short-lived or is operated
out of someone's home.)
--
Mark Brader "[It] was the kind of town where they spell
Toronto trouble TRUBIL, and if you try to correct them,
m...@vex.net they kill you." -- Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid

My text in this article is in the public domain.

[Peter T. Daniels]

It's an example of itself. Like methatesis, haplogy, ...

[Peter T. Daniels]

I'll (as far as I know) invent another word: those shall henceforth be
known as ipsonyms.

[Peter T. Daniels]

Copying entries from one dictionary to another -- as is known to happen
-- without verification is in fact "working with no data." You happened
to choose to devote your research to a huge language family with a great
many stable (if not huge) populations of native speakers. Others, such as
the aforementioned Semitic philologists, and the Americanist linguists,
the two communities from whom I received my instruction, chose different paths.

[David Kleinecke]

There's at least one Native group in South America whose
linguistic affiliation can be known from the single word the
Spanish wrote down. In a more interesting case Gilij passed
on the only two known words to illustrate a sound change.

Gilij was perhaps ahead of his times (he died in 1789) in his
understanding of sound change but he never tackled the problem
of complete classification.

[Snidely]

Remember when Peter T. Daniels bragged outrageously? That was
Wednesday:

Hear, hear!

/dps

--
Who, me? And what lacuna?

[Ross]

The present topic of discussion is not "copying entries from one
dictionary to another".

You happened
> to choose to devote your research to a huge language family with a great
> many stable (if not huge) populations of native speakers. Others, such as
> the aforementioned Semitic philologists, and the Americanist linguists,
> the two communities from whom I received my instruction, chose different
> paths.

I'm picking up your attempt to portray yourself as having chosen a
difficult but virtuous path while I took the easy road. But what
it may have to do with OED's citation of a couple of slang
dictionaries is still completely obscure. I get the feeling you are
happy to have it remain so.

[Peter T. Daniels]

You have GOT to be kidding.

I could _never_ go out and do fieldwork with actual speakers.

I was appalled by the old folks' tales of their adventures in
the '30s.

> it may have to do with OED's citation of a couple of slang
> dictionaries is still completely obscure. I get the feeling you are
> happy to have it remain so.

You still don't get the significance of "working with no data."

Not my problem.

[Peter Moylan]

On 2016-Oct-27 00:35, Janet wrote:
> In article <e09b2565-a1ac-4afd...@googlegroups.com>,
> benl...@ihug.co.nz says...
>>

>> Sigh. So we're going to have to learn Peter's special understanding
>> of "information" now?
>

> Yes, it's a breakaway version of English with all new meanings and
> definitions. Just make up your own, nobody cares:
>
> Information
>
> Parse
>
> Algorithm
>
> Pizza
>
> Invented
>
> etc
>
> Janet.

I didn't know that he had a new meaning for "Janet".

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia

[Janet]

In article <c7WdnbbcnubuqIzF...@giganews.com>, m...@vex.net
says...

>
> "Janet":
> > Yes, it's a breakaway version of English with all new meanings and
> > definitions. Just make up your own, nobody cares:
> >
> > Information
> >
> > Parse
> >
> > Algorithm
> >
> > Pizza
> >
> > Invented
> >
> > etc
> >
> > Janet.
>
> What's the new meaning of "Janet."?

The old one, is "Gift of God".

Janet.

[RH Draney]

That's a funny way to spell "Theadora" (my mother's name)....r

[GordonD]

On 25/10/2016 11:28, Peter Duncanson [BrE] wrote:
> On Tue, 25 Oct 2016 11:23:16 +0100, "Peter Duncanson [BrE]"
> <ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 24 Oct 2016 18:28:58 -0400, Quinn C
>> <lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:
>>
>>> "To clock someone" seems to have a meaning "to recognize someone,
>>> or something about them".
>>>
>>> I only very recently encountered this usage, several times only in
>>> the specific meaning "recognize that someone is trans". Wiktionary
>>> lists a separate meaning nr 7, example sentence: "A trans person
>>> may be able to easily clock other trans people.?"
>>> <https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/clock#Verb>
>>>
>>> Is this specific jargon in the trans scene, or does it extend to
>>> other domains?
>>>
>>> I'd say it's related to their meaning 4, "to take notice of, to
>>> realise", example: "Clock the wheels on that car!?".
>>>
>>> But where does that come from in the first place? A generalization
>>> of "measuring", similar to "check that hottie", which just came up
>>> in another thread?
>>>
>>> In 2001, Mike Lyle asked in this group, in a thread "around the
>>> clock":
>>>
>>> But why does "to clock" also mean "to look at"?
>>>
>>> He didn't get an answer (that Google archived, at least).
>>> <news:%%4j7.2206$T4.1...@www.newsranger.com>
>>>
>>> Would you say that is also a related meaning, or maybe it was nr 4
>>> above and he got it slightly wrong?
>>
>> Further to the other replies:
>>
>> OED:
>>
>> clock, v.1.
>>
>> 3. To punch in the face; to hit. (Cf. clock n.1 5c) slang.
>>
>> 1941 S. J. Baker Pop. Dict. Austral. Slang 18 To clock, to
>> strike with the fist.
>>
>> 4. To watch or observe; to look at, notice. slang (orig. U.S.).
>>
>> 1942 L. V. Berrey & M. Van den Bark Amer. Thes. Slang §482/2
>> Look at; see, clock, decko,..take a gander (at), [etc.].
>>
>>
>> clock, n.1.
>>
>> 5.
>> b. slang. The human face. (Cf. dial n.1 3c.)
>> 1923 ...
>>
>> c. slang. A punch (on the face).
>> 1959 N.Z. Listener 24 July 6/3 He might have a clock at him or a
>> kick at him.
>>
>> {I wonder whether the "human face" sense is rhyming slang: "clock" from
>> "clock face" for "face"?}
>
> Oops! That is not technically rhyming slang although it shares a
> characteristic with RS.
>

Rhyming slang as used by Edward Lear?
--
Gordon Davie
Edinburgh, Scotland

[GordonD]

On 24/10/2016 23:57, Harvey wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Oct 2016 22:33:44 +0000 (UTC), ric...@cogsci.ed.ac.uk
> (Richard Tobin) wrote:
>> In article <3dnbk1vpdv5n$.d...@mid.crommatograph.info>,

>> Quinn C <lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:
>
>> >I'd say it's related to their meaning 4, "to take notice of, to

>> >realise", example: "Clock the wheels on that car!".

>> >
>> >But where does that come from in the first place? A generalization
>> >of "measuring", similar to "check that hottie", which just came up
>> >in another thread?
>

>> Presumably from the idea of a machine registering something,
>> like "clocking in".
>
> To" clock" someone also means to punch them, very hard.
>

On the dial, presumably.

[Ross]

And you still won't explain it.

> Not my problem.

Not mine, either.

[Tak To]

On 10/24/2016 6:28 PM, Quinn C wrote:
> "To clock someone" seems to have a meaning "to recognize someone,
> or something about them".
>
> I only very recently encountered this usage, several times only in
> the specific meaning "recognize that someone is trans". Wiktionary
> lists a separate meaning nr 7, example sentence: "A trans person

> may be able to easily clock other trans people.‎"

> <https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/clock#Verb>
>
> Is this specific jargon in the trans scene, or does it extend to
> other domains?
>

> I'd say it's related to their meaning 4, "to take notice of, to
> realise", example: "Clock the wheels on that car!‎".

I think it is derived from the meaning of being detected
as speeding by a radar gun. E.g., "He is clocked doing 50mph
in a 35mph zone."

--
Tak
----------------------------------------------------------------+-----
Tak To ta...@alum.mit.eduxx
--------------------------------------------------------------------^^
[taode takto ~{LU5B~}] NB: trim the xx to get my real email addr

[Quinn C]

* GordonD:

> On 24/10/2016 23:57, Harvey wrote:

>> To" clock" someone also means to punch them, very hard.
>>
> On the dial, presumably.

In German, you can hit someone "on the 12". One, though not the
only theory of the origin of this expression is clock-related.

--
Failover worked - the system failed, then it was over.
(freely translated from a remark by Dietz Proepper
in de.alt.sysadmin.recovery)

[Jerry Friedman]

Or "Dorothy". Speaking of which, another synonymous name for
the collection is "Nate Matthews".

--
Jerry Friedman

[Robert Bannister]

On 28/10/16 3:12 am, Tak To wrote:
> On 10/24/2016 6:28 PM, Quinn C wrote:
>> "To clock someone" seems to have a meaning "to recognize someone,
>> or something about them".
>>
>> I only very recently encountered this usage, several times only in
>> the specific meaning "recognize that someone is trans". Wiktionary
>> lists a separate meaning nr 7, example sentence: "A trans person
>> may be able to easily clock other trans people.‎"
>> <https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/clock#Verb>
>>
>> Is this specific jargon in the trans scene, or does it extend to
>> other domains?
>>
>> I'd say it's related to their meaning 4, "to take notice of, to
>> realise", example: "Clock the wheels on that car!‎".
>
> I think it is derived from the meaning of being detected
> as speeding by a radar gun. E.g., "He is clocked doing 50mph
> in a 35mph zone."
>

I think that is much more modern.

--
Robert B. born England a long time ago;
Western Australia since 1972

[Charles Bishop]

In article <op.ypyb2...@red.lan>,
"James Wilkinson Sword" <inv...@something.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 26 Oct 2016 18:40:26 +0100, Charles Bishop <ctbi...@earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>
> > In article <op.ypwjd...@red.lan>,
> > "James Wilkinson Sword" <inv...@something.com> wrote:

> >
> >> On Mon, 24 Oct 2016 23:57:35 +0100, Harvey <use...@whhvs.co.uk> wrote:
> >>
> >> > On Mon, 24 Oct 2016 22:33:44 +0000 (UTC), ric...@cogsci.ed.ac.uk
> >> > (Richard Tobin) wrote:
> >> >> In article <3dnbk1vpdv5n$.d...@mid.crommatograph.info>,
> >> >> Quinn C <lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:
> >> >

> >> >> >I'd say it's related to their meaning 4, "to take notice of, to
> >> >> >realise", example: "Clock the wheels on that car!".
> >> >> >

> >> >> >But where does that come from in the first place? A generalization
> >> >> >of "measuring", similar to "check that hottie", which just came up
> >> >> >in another thread?
> >> >
> >> >> Presumably from the idea of a machine registering something,
> >> >> like "clocking in".
> >> >

> >> > To" clock" someone also means to punch them, very hard.
> >>

> >> That's the only meaning I knew of. Also "to lamp".
> >
> > As in Punch their lights out?
>
> Yes.

But I learned that "lights" were "lungs", unlikely to be related to
"lamp".

--
charles

[Yusuf B Gursey]

On Wednesday, October 26, 2016 at 10:14:42 PM UTC+3, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> On Wednesday, October 26, 2016 at 2:08:43 PM UTC-4, Yusuf B Gursey wrote:
> > On Wednesday, October 26, 2016 at 1:03:07 AM UTC+3, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, October 25, 2016 at 4:10:06 PM UTC-4, Yusuf B Gursey wrote:
> > > > On Tuesday, October 25, 2016 at 8:27:42 PM UTC+3, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>
> > > > > Archeologists used to come home from Iraq saying "Shuf this!" from the
> > > > > Iraqi Arabic imperative of the verb "to see," meaning 'look at this!'
> > > > It's general Colloquial Arabic ("Neo*Arabic"), not peculiar
> > > > to Iraq, but not found in Classical Arabic.
> > > The etymology is totally obscure.
> > > I was going to point out to the OED that it isn't Classical.
> > > Is it conjugated as a u-stem everywhere?
> >
> > In the prefix conjugation always as a u stem. In the
> > suffix conjugation some colloqiuals merge Classical
> > Arabic short /u/ and short /i/ as schwa ǝ
> >
> > šāfa u stem in Classical Arabic means "he polished (it)"
> >
> > while tašawwafa could either mean "he adorned himself"
> > or "he observed from from a distance"
>

> So a Form I with a basic meaning (conflicting with the original basic
> meaning) could have been back-formated from an alternate sense

That's very possible.

> of a Form V? The standard "etym. unkn." is a bit more likely.

Not all "Old Arabic" vocabulary made its way into Classical
Arabic dictionaries or literature. Sometimes Colloquial Arabic
may preserve archaic vocabulary or older forms not accepted
into Classical Arabic. For example Colloquial la' (final glottal
stop) "no" is older than Classical Arabic lā . Some Safaitic
lexica are better understood from the local Bedouin dialect
than from Classical Arabic and so on. Arabic /š/ evolved from
a lateral fricative, so unless it comes from a loanword from
8th cent. CE or after (unlikely given the distribution), I
think it unlikely that it is loanword from a non-Semitic source.

[CDB]

On 10/27/2016 6:07 PM, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> RH Draney wrote:

>> Janet wrote:
>>> m...@vex.net says...

>>>> "Janet":
>>>>> Yes, it's a breakaway version of English with all new
>>>>> meanings and definitions. Just make up your own, nobody
>>>>> cares:

>>>>> Information

>>>>> Parse

>>>>> Algorithm

>>>>> Pizza

>>>>> Invented

>>>>> etc

>>>>> Janet.

>>>> What's the new meaning of "Janet."?

>>> The old one, is "Gift of God".

Little Grace of God, no? Could almost be a movie about nuns.

>> That's a funny way to spell "Theadora" (my mother's name)....r

> Or "Dorothy". Speaking of which, another synonymous name for the
> collection is "Nate Matthews".

And don't forget Lady Godiva.

[RH Draney]

"I want to see Schmidt, Herrera and Kovacs in my quarters, on the
double!"...r

[Quinn C]

* Robert Bannister:

> I think that is the difference between older slang dictionaries and the
> Urban Dictionary that makes things up in order to be amusing.

I'm reasonably certain proper lexicographers don't regularly make
up entries for fun - and if they do, very occasionally, this is
revealed later on.

However, they can still get the meaning of a word wrong, as an
error in good faith. And this is far more likely with slang than
with literary language.

--
The bee must not pass judgment on the hive. (Voxish proverb)
-- Robert C. Wilson, Vortex (novel), p.125

[David Kleinecke]

Map-makers are said to make intentional small errors in order
to catch copycats. I used to live near one such error. The map
showed a street going through when in fact it was interrupted
by a creek they had neglected to bridge.

That's the "they" who do things that are done. Very like a
passive - perhaps I should have written "a creek that never
had been bridged"

[Peter T. Daniels]

Which is why they need to publish the data on which their guesses are based.

[David Kleinecke]

[Jerry Friedman]

On Friday, October 28, 2016 at 6:54:14 AM UTC-6, CDB wrote:
> On 10/27/2016 6:07 PM, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> > RH Draney wrote:
> >> Janet wrote:
> >>> m...@vex.net says...
>
> >>>> "Janet":
> >>>>> Yes, it's a breakaway version of English with all new
> >>>>> meanings and definitions. Just make up your own, nobody
> >>>>> cares:
>
> >>>>> Information
>
> >>>>> Parse
>
> >>>>> Algorithm
>
> >>>>> Pizza
>
> >>>>> Invented
>
> >>>>> etc
>
> >>>>> Janet.
>
> >>>> What's the new meaning of "Janet."?
>
> >>> The old one, is "Gift of God".
>
> Little Grace of God, no?

Yahweh was gracious? Yahweh showed favor? Somehow "The Lord showed
little favor" doesn't seem quite right.

> Could almost be a movie about nuns.
>
> >> That's a funny way to spell "Theadora" (my mother's name)....r
>
> > Or "Dorothy". Speaking of which, another synonymous name for the
> > collection is "Nate Matthews".
>
> And don't forget Lady Godiva.

Which I was going to. Waste of a good SDC question: What kind of
chocolate was given to Dorothy, Nathaniel, and Matthew?

--
Jerry Friedman

[James Wilkinson Sword]

A woman is at full beam if her nipples are hard.

--
Do not adjust your mind - the fault is with reality.

[Ross]

True. Of course even actual use in text may result from a
writer's misunderstanding of a word -- Browning's "twat" being a
famous example.

What I was pointing out earlier was the improbability that a slang
dictionary's erroneous definition would turn out to be a sense actually documented in writing, just a couple of years later. The only other
explanation would be that later writers had followed the dictionary's
lead -- but I don't think slang dictionaries have that kind of influence.