A serious case of Spanglish
Lee S. Bumgarner
I was flipping through channels the other day when I happened upon
a TV show from the Phillipens. (horrid sp). ANYWAY, what I found
interesting was how broadcasters kept slipping inbetween English and
Spanish. When they spoke English, it had little or no Spanish
inflection to it.
What gives?
-l
And yes, I know the history of the area.
--
__
Undertoad: http://falcon.jmu.edu/~bumgarls/ "Klaatu barada nictow" * "Usenet
is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea -- massive, difficult to
redirect, awe-inspiring, entertaining, and a source of mind-boggling amounts
of excrement when you least expect it. " --sp...@cs.purdue.edu (1992) * Jesus
loves you, but everyone else thinks you're an asshole * Kibo/Furr in '96!
Ariadne
In article <4ooiq4$l...@doc.jmu.edu>, bumg...@falcon.jmu.edu says...
>
>I was flipping through channels the other day when I happened upon
>a TV show from the Phillipens. (horrid sp). ANYWAY, what I found
>interesting was how broadcasters kept slipping inbetween English and
>Spanish. When they spoke English, it had little or no Spanish
>inflection to it.
>
>What gives?
I used to live on the Texas-Mexico border, where it was common to hear
television and radio announcers swap back and forth between English and
Spanish, sometimes combining the two in one word. These announcers were very
popular, as they came across as "one of the guys."
Liz
Gary Williams, Business Services Accounting
> I used to live on the Texas-Mexico border, where it was common to hear
> television and radio announcers swap back and forth between English and
> Spanish,...
When I lived in Albuquerque I once witnessed a conversation between two
thoroughly bi-lingual people: one a hospital administrator, the other a wino
who had wandered in. I was amazed at the way each of the switched languages in
mid-sentence; I asked the hospital administrator afterwards what triggered the
switches. He said that it was nothing conscious; that just as a monoglot like
myself may, for no apparent reason, choose one from a selection of possible
words in a given sentence, the bi-lingual speaker does likewise; if it happens
that the word which lands on the tongue is in a given language, then the
probability is increased that the next word will be in the same language; but
if the word that comes to mind is in the other language, then the language of
the following words will probably go into the other language, as well.
Gary Williams
WILL...@AHECAS.AHEC.EDU
Ned Kelly
Lee S. Bumgarner (bumg...@falcon.jmu.edu) wrote:
: I was flipping through channels the other day when I happened upon
: a TV show from the Phillipens. (horrid sp). ANYWAY, what I found
: interesting was how broadcasters kept slipping inbetween English and
: Spanish. When they spoke English, it had little or no Spanish
: inflection to it.
spanish | accent -aus 100%
?Sabes como fight Spanglish(mr)? !No preocupes amigo, todo que necessitar
hacer, is to speak el espan~ol pero con un accento australiano! (como
"Crocodillo Dundee".) Este' tactic es mucho effevtivo para forcing
Hispanicos hablar ingles.
english | accent -def
--
Ned Kelly Lives!!!!!!
"That isn't a knife.... This is a KNIFE!" - Paul Hogan
The Navy: It's Not Just A Job..... It's $cientology Lite!
Ted Samsel
Ned Kelly (nedk...@eagle.ais.net) wrote:
:
: : I was flipping through channels the other day when I happened upon
: : a TV show from the Phillipens. (horrid sp). ANYWAY, what I found
: : interesting was how broadcasters kept slipping inbetween English and
: : Spanish. When they spoke English, it had little or no Spanish
: : inflection to it.
:
: spanish | accent -aus 100%
:
: ?Sabes como fight Spanglish(mr)? !No preocupes amigo, todo que necessitar
: hacer, is to speak el espan~ol pero con un accento australiano! (como
: "Crocodillo Dundee".) Este' tactic es mucho effevtivo para forcing
: Hispanicos hablar ingles.
:
: english | accent -def
: The Navy: It's Not Just A Job..... It's $cientology Lite!
Te watcho, man!
--
Ted Samsel....tejas@infi.net *1996* Year of the Accordion~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Home of the brave, land of the free,
I don't want to be mistreated by no bourgoisie."
AAFOUF# 0000003 Huddie Ledbetter
Lars Eighner
In our last episode <4p87jh$n...@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>,
Broadcast on alt.doobry,alt.usage.english,soc.culture.mexican.american,alt.california,soc.culture.mexican,misc.immigration.usa,alt.politics.immigration,soc.culture.usa
The lovely and talented mka...@ix.netcom.com(Mark Karim) wrote:
>In <4p80ag$q...@news.ais.net> nedk...@eagle.ais.net (Ned Kelly) writes:
>>
>>
>>Lee S. Bumgarner (bumg...@falcon.jmu.edu) wrote:
>>: I was flipping through channels the other day when I happened upon
>>: a TV show from the Phillipens. (horrid sp). ANYWAY, what I found
>>: interesting was how broadcasters kept slipping inbetween English and
>>: Spanish. When they spoke English, it had little or no Spanish
>>: inflection to it.
>Excuse my interruption, but the native language of the Phillipines is
>Filipino, not Spanish.
Although I am in no position to be issuing spelling flames, this has
gone on long enough. It is spelt "Philippines." One el and three pees.
--
=Lars Eighner===4103 Ave D (512)459-6693==Pawn to Queen Four==QSFx2==BMOC==
=eig...@io.com=Austin TX 78751-4617 ==Travels with Lizbeth==Bayou Boy==
= http://www.io.com/~eighner/ =====American Prelude==Gay Cosmos==
="Yes, Lizbeth is well."=======Whispered in the Dark==Elements of Arousal==
Mark Karim
In <4p80ag$q...@news.ais.net> nedk...@eagle.ais.net (Ned Kelly) writes:
>
>
>Lee S. Bumgarner (bumg...@falcon.jmu.edu) wrote:
>: I was flipping through channels the other day when I happened upon
>: a TV show from the Phillipens. (horrid sp). ANYWAY, what I found
>: interesting was how broadcasters kept slipping inbetween English and
>: Spanish. When they spoke English, it had little or no Spanish
>: inflection to it.
>
>
>?Sabes como fight Spanglish(mr)? !No preocupes amigo, todo que
necessitar
>hacer, is to speak el espan~ol pero con un accento australiano! (como
>"Crocodillo Dundee".) Este' tactic es mucho effevtivo para forcing
>Hispanicos hablar ingles.
>
>english | accent -def
>
>Ned Kelly Lives!!!!!!
>"That isn't a knife.... This is a KNIFE!" - Paul Hogan
>
Excuse my interruption, but the native language of the Phillipines is
Filipino, not Spanish.
Mark
Polar
Isn't "Filipino" actually Tagalog?
Also, most Filipinos, except out in the boonies, now have English as a
2nd or 3rd language.
(Excuse my previous post on this thread; I didn't notice the grotesque
x-posting.)
This posted to a.u.e. only.
Polare
>
>Mark
Polar
KJBlake
In article <4p87jh$n...@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>,
mka...@ix.netcom.com(Mark Karim) writes:
>Excuse my interruption, but the native language of the Phillipines is
>Filipino, not Spanish.
Not Tagalog?
Alan Horowitz
The language which the largest number of Filipinos call their mother
tongue, is Bisaya. All the southern two thirds of the country.
It isn't a variant of Tagalog. Southerners aren't too happy that the
official language of the country is Tagalog.
Steven Rosen
On 7 Jun 1996 05:04:09 -0500, eig...@io.com (Lars Eighner) wrote:
>
>>Excuse my interruption, but the native language of the Phillipines is
>>Filipino, not Spanish.
>
>Although I am in no position to be issuing spelling flames, this has
>gone on long enough. It is spelt "Philippines." One el and three pees.
We'll get it right. The most common language in the Philippines is
Tagalog (not Filipino ? ) although there numerous are additional
dialects completely unrelated but also commonly used (like the native
dialects used in Mexico). Tagalog consists of about 20% of its
vocabulary identical to Spanish - numbers, days of the week, trabajo
etc.
Polar
On Sat, 08 Jun 1996 00:54:41 GMT, r...@ix.netcom.com (Steven Rosen)
wrote:
>On 7 Jun 1996 05:04:09 -0500, eig...@io.com (Lars Eighner) wrote:
>
>>
>>>Excuse my interruption, but the native language of the Phillipines is
>>>Filipino, not Spanish.
>>
>>Although I am in no position to be issuing spelling flames, this has
>>gone on long enough. It is spelt "Philippines." One el and three pees.
Spelled by whom? The "ph" is an artifact of Greek origin (I think;
pls. only gentle correction if wrong). In English (and several
Romance languages) there is a perfectly good letter for that sound:
"F" (as in "feh").
Bewilderingly enough, the Ph/F ilipinos themselves sometimes use
"Pilipino". Can anyone explain that?
Also, why isn't this being xposted to soc.culture.filipino (yes, it is
spelled that way!) where we might get some tochas auf'm tisch input.
Polar
Lars Eighner
In our last episode <31b93e58...@nntp.ix.netcom.com>,
Broadcast on alt.usage.english,soc.culture.mexican.american
The lovely and talented s.m...@ix.netcom.com (Polar) wrote:
>On Sat, 08 Jun 1996 00:54:41 GMT, r...@ix.netcom.com (Steven Rosen)
>wrote:
>
>>On 7 Jun 1996 05:04:09 -0500, eig...@io.com (Lars Eighner) wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>>Excuse my interruption, but the native language of the Phillipines is
>>>>Filipino, not Spanish.
>>>
>>>Although I am in no position to be issuing spelling flames, this has
>>>gone on long enough. It is spelt "Philippines." One el and three pees.
>
>Spelled by whom? The "ph" is an artifact of Greek origin (I think;
>pls. only gentle correction if wrong). In English (and several
>Romance languages) there is a perfectly good letter for that sound:
>"F" (as in "feh").
Okay. In which language/culture is "Phillipines" correct?
Isaac Cubillos
In <3WXuxAwZ...@io.com> eig...@io.com (Lars Eighner) writes:
>
>>
>>>On 7 Jun 1996 05:04:09 -0500, eig...@io.com (Lars Eighner) wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Excuse my interruption, but the native language of the Phillipines
Incorrect... The native language in the Philippines is Tagalog.
>>>> It is spelt "Philippines."
This is incorrect... it is spelled "spelled," not spelt.
In Tagalog it is spelled: Philippines and the people are (spoken
language) pilipino. In English, when in the Philippines, it's spelled
"filipino."
The modern Tagalog is a linguistic mixture of Spanish (600 years of
Spanish rule), native dialects, English and Portuguese.
There is no "f" in the Tagalog language... When in the U.S. the people
from the Philippines, they call themselves Pinay (pronounced
pee-niiee).
Markus Laker
capr...@ix.netcom.com (Isaac Cubillos ) wrote:
> This is incorrect... it is spelled "spelled," not spelt.
It can be either. Admittedly, Brits use 'spelt' more than Americans do, but
both forms are okay.
--
Markus Laker.
Daan Sandee
[soc.culture.mexican.american snipped]
In article <31b93e58...@nntp.ix.netcom.com>, s.m...@ix.netcom.com (Polar) writes:
|> On Sat, 08 Jun 1996 00:54:41 GMT, r...@ix.netcom.com (Steven Rosen)
|> wrote:
|> >>Although I am in no position to be issuing spelling flames, this has
|> >>gone on long enough. It is spelt "Philippines." One el and three pees.
|>
|> Spelled by whom? The "ph" is an artifact of Greek origin (I think;
|> pls. only gentle correction if wrong). In English (and several
|> Romance languages) there is a perfectly good letter for that sound:
|> "F" (as in "feh").
Spelled by careful writers of the English language. Even for foreign
geographical terms, there is a standard English spelling, and the island
republic is spelled "The Philippines." I think it is not too prescriptive
for this newsgroup to insist on that. The Spanish King whose name was
given to the islands is still called Philip in English, although the
modern Spanish spelling is "Felipe". The name is indeed Greek and means
"lover of horses" and is spelled (in Greek) with a phi, one lambda and
two pis. You'll have to ask sci.lang about when the aspirate was replaced
by a fricative in various languages.
There are people (native English speakers) who have, or affect, a given
name "Phillip", and there is a common variant surname "Phillips", but
the islands have only one ell. (Especially in the U.S., there is endless
confusion between the Phillips Petroleum Company and N.V.Philips'
Vereenigde Gloeilampenfabrieken, makers of electrical appliances and
consumer electronics.)
|>
|> Bewilderingly enough, the Ph/F ilipinos themselves sometimes use
|> "Pilipino". Can anyone explain that?
I have always assumed that this is the Tagalog spelling, presumably
indicating that Tagalog does not have an /f/, at least not initially.
Daan Sandee san...@think.com
Burlington, MA
Truly Donovan
Isaac Cubillos wrote:
>
> In <3WXuxAwZ...@io.com> eig...@io.com (Lars Eighner) writes:
> >
> >>>On 7 Jun 1996 05:04:09 -0500, eig...@io.com (Lars Eighner) wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>>Excuse my interruption, but the native language of the Phillipines
> is filipino, not Spanish.
>
> Incorrect... The native language in the Philippines is Tagalog.
>
> >>>> It is spelt "Philippines."
>
Um, no. The word "spelled" is spelled "spelled." The word "spelt" is
spelled "spelt."
Truly Donovan
Polar
On 8 Jun 1996 09:30:57 -0500, eig...@io.com (Lars Eighner) wrote:
>In our last episode <31b93e58...@nntp.ix.netcom.com>,
>Broadcast on alt.usage.english,soc.culture.mexican.american
>The lovely and talented s.m...@ix.netcom.com (Polar) wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 08 Jun 1996 00:54:41 GMT, r...@ix.netcom.com (Steven Rosen)
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On 7 Jun 1996 05:04:09 -0500, eig...@io.com (Lars Eighner) wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Excuse my interruption, but the native language of the Phillipines is
>>>>>Filipino, not Spanish.
>>>>
>>>>Although I am in no position to be issuing spelling flames, this has
>>>>gone on long enough. It is spelt "Philippines." One el and three pees.
>>
>>Spelled by whom? The "ph" is an artifact of Greek origin (I think;
>>pls. only gentle correction if wrong). In English (and several
>>Romance languages) there is a perfectly good letter for that sound:
>>"F" (as in "feh").
>
>Okay. In which language/culture is "Phillipines" correct?
"Philippines" (3 pees as you suggest) *is* nearly universal in the
U.S. ( As you know, we have many, many words also using the "ph" for
"f" which I believe comes to us from the Greek.) Just pointing out
that this is not necessarily the way *they* in the Philippines spell
it -- or would have spelled it had there not been the lengthy American
occupation avec concomitant influence.
Anybody cruised soc.culture.filipino yet to check them out?
Polar
>
victor osti
In article <31b9e3f...@nntp.ix.netcom.com> s.m...@ix.netcom.com (Polar) writes:
>>>>>>Excuse my interruption, but the native language of the Phillipines is
>>>>>>Filipino, not Spanish.
Actually the national language in the Philippines is Tagalog, although there
are many dialects spoken.
victor
Antonio Miguel
In <vosti.52...@electriciti.com> vo...@electriciti.com (victor
At 06:50 AM 6/8/96 -0700, you wrote:
> Hi Hector Santos,
> As I was browsing through mexican.american newgroups I found
> this thread. Its been goin on for the past two days but just
> now it caught my eye.Since you seem to be the linguistic spe-
> cialist in our newsgroup,scf,could you look into this matter?
>
>On Sat, 08 Jun 1996 00:54:41 GMT, r...@ix.netcom.com (Steven Rosen)
>wrote:
>
>>On 7 Jun 1996 05:04:09 -0500, eig...@io.com (Lars Eighner) wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>>Excuse my interruption, but the native language of the Phillipines
>is
>>>>Filipino, not Spanish.
>>>
>>>Although I am in no position to be issuing spelling flames, this has
>>>gone on long enough. It is spelt "Philippines." One el and three
>pees.
>
>Spelled by whom? The "ph" is an artifact of Greek origin (I think;
>pls. only gentle correction if wrong). In English (and several
>Romance languages) there is a perfectly good letter for that sound:
>"F" (as in "feh").
>
>Bewilderingly enough, the Ph/F ilipinos themselves sometimes use
>"Pilipino". Can anyone explain that?
>
>Also, why isn't this being xposted to soc.culture.filipino (yes, it is
>spelled that way!) where we might get some tochas auf'm tisch input.
Of course, PH is an artifact of Greek origin but so what. I'll have to
use
some linguistic terms to explain why PH is acceptable even if F is in
the
alphabet.
English uses deep orthography compared to Spanish which has shallow
orthography. This means that Spanish has a "what you see is how you
read it"
spelling. In English, the same letters are used in different ways to
form
sounds (rough and dough). At first glance, Spanish orthography seems
superior to English orthography. This is not necessarily so.
Spanish (I'll use this to represent those languages with shallow
orthography, which simply means a convention for spelling) orthography
contains more precise phonemic definitions. It is more precise so you
can
pronounce a word even if you haven't seen it before and don't know what
it
means. On the other hand, the deep orthography of English allows it to
have
more morphemic and lexical information. By looking at a word, you are
able
to see its root whether it's Greek (psychology) or Latin (current) or
French
(niche).
Spanish is also called a cenemic system because it is
phonemic/phonetic- or
sense-discriminative. English is primarily cenemic but pleremic
(lexemic/morphemic- or sense-determinative) elements have crept in to
allow
its deep orthography.
So while PH is Greek in origin, in English Philippines came from Philip
and
that's how it goes. The Spanish Filipinas came from Felipe and is also
acceptable. Since Filipinas is a foreign-derived word, it is allowed to
be
spelled with an F in Tagalog. It can also be spelled Pilipinas in
Tagalog
because that is how they pronounce it, most Tagalogs cannot pronounce
an F.
With regards to Filipino, that is how it is spelled ion English. Many
misguided Filipinos use Pilipino when writing in English because they
think
you have to use the Tagalog word, Pilipino. Filipino is English for
Pilipino. Filipino is also acceptable in Tagalog because it is
foreign-derived. One cannot claim to be more nationalistic by calling
himself Pilipino because that is the Tagalog word for the foreign term
introduced into the country.
The simplest rule to follow is to use Pilipinas and Pilipino when
writing in
Tagalog (although Filipinas and Filipino are allowed) and to use
Philippines
and Filipino when writing in English.
---
Hector Santos <hect...@earthlink.net> Los Angeles
*A Philippine Leaf* Literacy in Pre-Hispanic Philippines
***** http://www.webspace.com/~sushidog/dahon.html *****
Steve MacGregor
Jene tajpis lastatempe Mark Karim:
>Excuse my interruption, but the native language of the Phillipines is
>Filipino, not Spanish.
That may or may not be true, depending on whether you can find a place
on earth called "the Phillipines". But there are =many= native languages
in the Philippines, including English and Tagalog.
--
------------------------------------------------------------
I'm so old, I remember the rock group "Jefferson Steamboat"!
------------------------------------------------------------
Patrick C Flumignan
> >a TV show from the Phillipens. (horrid sp). ANYWAY, what I found
> >interesting was how broadcasters kept slipping inbetween English and
> >Spanish. When they spoke English, it had little or no Spanish
> >inflection to it.
> >
>
> I used to live on the Texas-Mexico border, where it was common to hear
> television and radio announcers swap back and forth between English and
> popular, as they came across as "one of the guys."
>
> Liz
this seems to contrast with the situation here in montréal, where those
in the "respectable" culture industry usually does not mix the two
languages -- french and english. for example, english street names that
were renamed in french are often pronounced in english. for example,
"rue st-laurant" is said "St. Lawrence Street" by the newscasters. even
french names are often anglicised in pronounciation -- Mr Cretchyan
versus M Crétian (the latter being nasal, the former being ugly).
i should want to listen to talk radio, though, to see if the distinctions
are even more pronounced (which is what I suspect, seeing as how talk
radio often claims to speak for the "hoi polloi" -- who in turn are very
set and vehement in their language choice).
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Patrick C Flumignan
Concordia University, Montreal
Mark Odegard
Posted to alt.usage.english & e-mailed.
>this seems to contrast with the situation here in montréal, where those
>in the "respectable" culture industry usually does not mix the two
>languages -- french and english. for example, english street names that
>were renamed in french are often pronounced in english. for example,
>"rue st-laurant" is said "St. Lawrence Street" by the newscasters. even
>french names are often anglicised in pronounciation -- Mr Cretchyan
>versus M Crétian (the latter being nasal, the former being ugly).
Before it became Boulevard Rene Leveque, I'd say "Boulevard"
as best you can in French, then "Dorchester" as in English,
since presumably that's how Lord Dorchester pronounced his
name. More than one francophone Montrealer complained.
This breaks a rule in English. I don't know about French,
but you attempt to do a personal name as close as possible
to the way the person pronounces (or did pronounce) it. Are
we supposed to call the President of France "Jacks Cheerack?
--
Mark Odegard. Ode...@ptel.net
David Vanecek
Polar (s.m...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
> Bewilderingly enough, the Ph/F ilipinos themselves sometimes use
> "Pilipino". Can anyone explain that?
The Tagalogs have no /f/ phoneme. (Other Philippine languages do.)
Pilipino is a politcally correct name for Tagalog, avoiding charges
of Tagalog hegemony. Nobody, but nobody, speaks Spanish there.
(Teaching Spanish to Filipinos under the Spanish administration
was a crime--They sought to prevent the formation of a national
identity in the style of Mexico and S. America.) Tagalog is
the language of the ethnic group surrounding Manila. Forty miles
from Manila, people spoke another dialect or language. Near
Clark AB, it was Pampangan.
I sound authoritative, but I'm just reminiscing from the days of
my "McNamara Fellowship" at Clark.
D.V.
Mark Tiscareno
Okay, I understand but if the plural of mouse is mice and the plural of
louse is lice, should not the plural of house be hice?
MarkT
David Monteith-Hodge
In article <4pj5fl$2...@nnrp1.news.primenet.com>, Mark Tiscareno
(ma...@primenet.com) writes: >Okay, I understand but if the plural of mouse is
mice and the plural of >louse is lice, should not the plural of house be hice?
>MarkT
>
Interesting........
Would that make the plural of spouse to be spice - as in the variety of life?
Things get dangerous when you attempt to be consistent, don't they?
David
--
David Monteith-Hodge
Veni translation -> : I came,
Vidi : I saw,
Validi : I validated, corrected, fixed,
: fudged, bodged, kludged, made work etc.
Programmers Motto (c)1994 David Monteith-Hodge and Mike Wilding.
Mirabelle Severn & Thames
In article <5...@monteith.win-uk.net>,
David Monteith-Hodge <da...@monteith.win-uk.net> wrote:
> In article <4pj5fl$2...@nnrp1.news.primenet.com>, Mark Tiscareno
>(ma...@primenet.com) writes: >Okay, I understand but if the plural of mouse is
>mice and the plural of >louse is lice, should not the plural of house be hice?
>>MarkT
>Would that make the plural of spouse to be spice - as in the variety of life?
This is how the people I know who have more than one
refer to them.
>Things get dangerous when you attempt to be consistent, don't they?
The above-mentioned people would be more likely to say,
Things get fun!
>David
Colin Mahoney
On Mon, 10 Jun 1996 01:34:04 GMT, Ode...@ptel.net (Mark Odegard)
wrote:
[...]
>
>Before it became Boulevard Rene Leveque, I'd say "Boulevard"
>as best you can in French, then "Dorchester" as in English,
>since presumably that's how Lord Dorchester pronounced his
>name. More than one francophone Montrealer complained.
>
>This breaks a rule in English. I don't know about French,
>but you attempt to do a personal name as close as possible
>to the way the person pronounces (or did pronounce) it. Are
>we supposed to call the President of France "Jacks Cheerack?
>
In Spanish it's normal to use Spanish pronunciation of foreign names -
'Nigel' and 'Graham' being two of the most grating examples from round
here. This is possible in Spanish as it is clear how to pronounce any
word just from reading it; as this is not an option in English it
seems we have no choice but to make the most of a bad job ant try to
go with the original pronunciation.
>
>
>--
>Mark Odegard. Ode...@ptel.net
>
---------------------------------------
Colin Mahoney ( cmah...@readysoft.es )
Sabadell, Spain
---------------------------------------
Aaron J. Dinkin
In article <31bd429f...@snews.zippo.com>, cmah...@super.zippo.com
(Colin Mahoney) wrote:
> On Mon, 10 Jun 1996 01:34:04 GMT, Ode...@ptel.net (Mark Odegard)
> wrote:
>
> [...]
> >
> >Before it became Boulevard Rene Leveque, I'd say "Boulevard"
> >as best you can in French, then "Dorchester" as in English,
> >since presumably that's how Lord Dorchester pronounced his
> >name. More than one francophone Montrealer complained.
> >
> >This breaks a rule in English. I don't know about French,
> >but you attempt to do a personal name as close as possible
> >to the way the person pronounces (or did pronounce) it. Are
> >we supposed to call the President of France "Jacks Cheerack?
> >
>
> In Spanish it's normal to use Spanish pronunciation of foreign names -
> 'Nigel' and 'Graham' being two of the most grating examples from round
> here. This is possible in Spanish as it is clear how to pronounce any
> word just from reading it; as this is not an option in English it
> seems we have no choice but to make the most of a bad job ant try to
> go with the original pronunciation.
I know a girl named Gigi who studies Spanish - does this mean she has to
put up with being called "Hee-hee"?
帰aron J. Dinkin
Dr. Whom
srb...@primenet.com
>
> >Excuse my interruption, but the native language of the Phillipines is
> >Filipino, not Spanish.
>
OK, that's true. But the official language WAS Spanish for around 400
years. What is interesting is that the Spanish/Phillipino culture is
totally ignored in universities. Jose Rizal, the spiritual founder of
independence from Spain, was quite a "Renaissance man", practiced medicine
in Spain, wrote copiously (novels, poetry, essays) and was executed by the
Spanish for his political views.
I noticed that on Guam, folks speak English but COUNT in Spanish!
Sr. Bill
Del Hendrixson
Lars Eighner
In our last episode <4ptb88$q...@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>,
Broadcast on alt.doobry,alt.usage.english,soc.culture.mexican.american,alt.california,soc.culture.mexican,misc.immigration.usa,alt.politics.immigration,soc.culture.usa
The lovely and talented zap...@ix.netcom.com (Del Hendrixson) wrote:
>In <srbill-1406...@ip022.lax.primenet.com> srb...@primenet.com
>writes:
>>
>>In article <uq/txAwZqM...@io.com>, eig...@io.com wrote:
Please mind your attributions. None of my words have remained
in thread for quite some time.
CD
On 10 Jun 1996, Mark Tiscareno wrote:
> Okay, I understand but if the plural of mouse is mice and the plural of
> louse is lice, should not the plural of house be hice?
> MarkT
>
>
>
And the plural of mojado is invasion.
Baty
for my computer, do I say I bought two mouses?
Linda
Steve MacGregor
Jene tajpis lastatempe Baty:
{ This reminds me: If I go out and by a Brand X mouse and a Brand Y mouse
Some people call them "mouses", and others call them "mice". I saw an
ad in a computer magazine, and the column in which mice were listed was
headed "rodents".
--
-----------------------------------
Does the name "Pavlov" ring a bell?
-----------------------------------
Baty
stev...@indirect.com (Steve MacGregor) wrote:
> Some people call them "mouses", and others call them "mice". I saw an
>ad in a computer magazine, and the column in which mice were listed was
>headed "rodents".
>
>--
> -----------------------------------
> Does the name "Pavlov" ring a bell?
> -----------------------------------
Rodents. I'll remember that. Your Pavlov question is great!--Linda
Polar
On Mon, 17 Jun 1996 04:27:30 -0400, CD <cde...@chelsea.ios.com> wrote:
>On 10 Jun 1996, Mark Tiscareno wrote:
>
>> Okay, I understand but if the plural of mouse is mice and the plural of
>> louse is lice, should not the plural of house be hice?
>> MarkT
>>
>>
>>
>
>And the plural of mojado is invasion.
For a.u.e.ers who don't Spanish, the above unfriendly comment has to
do with people coming across the U.S. border from the South.
"Mojado" --literally "wet" -- is a term used to describe illegal
entrants who wade or swim the Rio Grande, which is very shallow along
much of the US - Mexico border. It translates to "wetback". Poster
is suggesting, I asume, that many illegal entrants consitute an
"invasion".
Polar
Polar
srb...@primenet.com
In article <4ptb88$q...@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>, zap...@ix.netcom.com
(Del Hendrixson) wrote:
>
> What about Tagolo?
>
> Del
OK, I think Tagalog is the official language of the Phillipines. I believe
there are literally thousands of languages, dialects, etc., there, and
four major ones, of which Tagalog is the official one.
My Phillipino students refer to themselves as "Pilipino" or "Pilipina",
not using the "f" (Ph) sound.
And, just in case you think this string has nothing to do with Mexico,
remember that the old "Manila Galleon" used to cruize between Mexico and
Manila for the Spanish Crown, back in the days when Mexico was called
"Nueva Espania" and when there were big bucks in the spice trade. Even "El
periquillo sarniento" travelled there...
Sr. Bill
KJBlake
In article <4q3vv5$g...@globe.indirect.com>, stev...@indirect.com (Steve
MacGregor) writes:
>{ This reminds me: If I go out and by a Brand X mouse and a Brand Y
mouse
>{ for my computer, do I say I bought two mouses?
>
> Some people call them "mouses", and others call them "mice". I saw an
>ad in a computer magazine, and the column in which mice were listed was
>headed "rodents".
The safest way is as with the mongoose:
"Please send one mongoose."
"p. s. Please send another one."
Robert Seward
> OK, I think Tagalog is the official language of the Phillipines. I believe
> there are literally thousands of languages, dialects, etc., there, and
> four major ones, of which Tagalog is the official one.
Just for the record, there are three major Philippine languages; Tagalog,
Ilocano and Cebuano. Each is spoken by approx. 25% of the population. The
fourth quarter speak ono of several hundred minority languages.
Rex Knepp
Steve MacGregor (stev...@indirect.com) wrote:
: Jene tajpis lastatempe Baty:
: { This reminds me: If I go out and by a Brand X mouse and a Brand Y mouse
: Some people call them "mouses", and others call them "mice". I saw an
: ad in a computer magazine, and the column in which mice were listed was
: headed "rodents".
There's a vendor in this industry who sells a sort of digitizing apparatus
that doesn't require a tablet (it's a BIG "puck" with lots of buttons and
a high-resolution tracking setup).
They call it the "Digi-Rat."
-30-
rex (who wonders if the pointer on an apple II was a gerbil?)
============================================================================
kn...@hou.moc.com
Rex Knepp - MarOny - Tyler, TX
Standard Disclaimer --------------------------------------------->
Opinions expressed herein are not
necessarily those of my employer.
<----------------------------------------------Standard Disclaimer
=============================================================================
Chris Malcolm
On 10 Jun 1996, Mark Tiscareno wrote:
> Okay, I understand but if the plural of mouse is mice and the plural of
> louse is lice, should not the plural of house be hice?
No, because this would cause an offensive ambiguity in the Queen's
English, since she pronounces the singular of "house" as "hice".
--
Chris Malcolm c...@uk.ac.ed.aifh +44 (0)131 650 3085
Department of Artificial Intelligence, Edinburgh University
5 Forrest Hill, Edinburgh, EH1 2QL, UK DoD #205
"The mind reigns, but does not govern" Paul Valery
Bill Taylor
|> > Some people call them "mouses", and others call them "mice".
Thank heavens thewy didn't decide to call the "mouse" a "mongoose"!
|> > -----------------------------------
|> > Does the name "Pavlov" ring a bell?
|> > -----------------------------------
Hmmm....
No; but the name "Quasimodo" certainly does!
--------------------------------------------
Bill Taylor. w...@math.canterbury.ac.nz
Bill Trylor. q e rw...@maih.canterkury.aa.nz
Tiel Tryloco quer rwst@maihuc nterkesy.ga.nz
Thelworyd co quer rwsi@mvihus ntrikesy.gainz
The world conqueror sig-virus strikes again!
--------------------------------------------
Jim Ward
>|> > -----------------------------------
>|> > Does the name "Pavlov" ring a bell?
>|> > -----------------------------------
>Hmmm....
> No; but the name "Quasimodo" certainly does!
I don't suppose the plural of Quasimodo is Quasimodi ? (No my
dictionary doesn't give a plural).
Steve MacGregor
Jene tajpis lastatempe Jim Ward:
{ I don't suppose the plural of Quasimodo is Quasimodi ? (No my
{ dictionary doesn't give a plural).
Yes, you don't suppose it is. You suppose that the plural is "Quasimodis".
--
---------------------
Reunite Gondwanaland!
---------------------
Gregory Resch
kjb...@aol.com (KJBlake) writes:
> In article <4q3vv5$g...@globe.indirect.com>, stev...@indirect.com (Steve
> MacGregor) writes:...
>
> > Some people call them "mouses", and others call them "mice". I saw an
> >ad in a computer magazine, and the column in which mice were listed was
> >headed "rodents".
>
> The safest way is as with the mongoose:
> "Please send one mongoose."
> "p. s. Please send another one."
Robert Benchley, no?
--
KJBlake
In article <resch.8...@cpcug.org>, re...@cpcug.org (Gregory Resch)
writes:
It's possible, but I always thought of it as by some anonymous writer.
Markus Laker
c...@aisb.ed.ac.uk (Chris Malcolm) wrote:
> On 10 Jun 1996, Mark Tiscareno wrote:
> > Okay, I understand but if the plural of mouse is mice and the plural of
> > louse is lice, should not the plural of house be hice?
> No, because this would cause an offensive ambiguity in the Queen's
> English, since she pronounces the singular of "house" as "hice".
This causes a problem with 'louse', which in the Queen's accent sounds like
'lice'. Her Majesty therefore has to pronounce 'lice' as 'lace'. Problem
solved.
--
Markus Laker.
Colin Fine
In article <srbill-1706...@ip184.lax.primenet.com>,
srb...@primenet.com writes
>In article <4ptb88$q...@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>, zap...@ix.netcom.com
>(Del Hendrixson) wrote:
>
>>
>> What about Tagolo?
>>
>> Del
>
>there are literally thousands of languages, dialects, etc., there, and
>four major ones, of which Tagalog is the official one.
The Ethnologue Index (11th Edition: 1988) lists 167 languages for the
Philippines (164 living and 3 extinct), and says of Tagalog:
"Tagalog (Pilipino) .... Pilipino is presently the national language.
Filipino is to be developed from it to replace it. Official Language..."
There appear to be two official languages, Pilipino and English, and
three other 'languages of wide communication'.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
| Colin Fine 66 High Ash, Shipley, W Yorks. BD18 1NE, UK |
| Tel: 01274 592696 e-mail: co...@kindness.demon.co.uk |
| "Other people's criticisms are never so cruel |
| as those we level against ourselves" -K.B.Brown |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Meliss6789
> [....]
> The safest way is as with the mongoose:
>
> "Please send one mongoose."
> "p. s. Please send another one."
And this from "The New York Public Library Writer's Guide to Style
and Usage," on page 393:
"One of the editors of this book was briefly stumped when
her two children both wanted an ice cream novelty called
a Mickey Mouse. Being a conscientious editor, she couldn't
bring herself to ask for `two Mickey Mice,' but `two Mickey
Mouses' also sounded wrong. So, as editors must often do,
she `wrote' around the problem: `A Mickey Mouse for each
child, please.' "
---====:::::******:::::====---
Melissa Saunders
melis...@aol.com
,
==----=
([.] [.])
--------------------------oOOo--(_)--oOOo--------------------------
WOT, NO CUT SPELLING DISCUSSIONS?