Does sarcasm work both ways?
mm
Someone ends a paragraph with "You don't often associate California
with good looking women."
Later some Californian pretends to be offended, and the first person
says, I was being sarcastic. I do associate California and the movies
etc. with good looking women.
I trust him that he was kidding in the first sentence, but was the
first sentence sarcasm? Is sarcasm the right word?
Somehow, I'm not sure.
Offhand, it seems to me, that sarcasm is a negative statement
expressed in positive-sounding words. �
His first sentence would have been a positive statement in
negative-souding words. � What does one call that?
I don't know what one calls that, but it doesn't seem like sarcasm to
me.
--
Posters should say where they live, and for which area
they are asking questions. I was born and then lived in
Western Pa. 10 years
Indianapolis 7 years
Chicago 6 years
Brooklyn, NY 12 years
Baltimore 26 years
James Hogg
> Someone ends a paragraph with "You don't often associate California
> with good looking women."
>
> Later some Californian pretends to be offended, and the first person
> says, I was being sarcastic. I do associate California and the
> movies etc. with good looking women.
>
> I trust him that he was kidding in the first sentence, but was the
> first sentence sarcasm? Is sarcasm the right word?
>
> Somehow, I'm not sure.
>
> Offhand, it seems to me, that sarcasm is a negative statement
> expressed in positive-sounding words.
>
> His first sentence would have been a positive statement in
> negative-souding words. What does one call that?
>
> I don't know what one calls that, but it doesn't seem like sarcasm to
> me.
Not in the original sense of sarcasm, which refers to a bitter gibe or
taunt, a biting remark, often, as you say, expressed in
positive-sounding words.
He was actually being ironic, saying one thing and meaning the opposite.
--
James
Skitt
Yes, but that is true only in BrE. AmE irony is expressed by the following
example:
Ironically, Sir Arthur Sullivan is remembered for the
comic operas he found embarrassing, rather than the
serious works he hoped would be his legacy.
Quite a different thing.
--
Skitt (AmE)
mm
wrote:
>James Hogg wrote:
>> mm wrote:
>
>>> Someone ends a paragraph with "You don't often associate California
>>> with good looking women."
>>>
>>> Later some Californian pretends to be offended, and the first person
>>> says, I was being sarcastic. I do associate California and the
>>> movies etc. with good looking women.
>>>
>>> I trust him that he was kidding in the first sentence, but was the
>>> first sentence sarcasm? Is sarcasm the right word?
>>>
>>> Somehow, I'm not sure.
>>>
>>> Offhand, it seems to me, that sarcasm is a negative statement
>>> expressed in positive-sounding words.
>>>
>>> His first sentence would have been a positive statement in
>>> negative-souding words. What does one call that?
>>>
>>> I don't know what one calls that, but it doesn't seem like sarcasm to
>>> me.
>>
>> Not in the original sense of sarcasm, which refers to a bitter gibe or
>> taunt, a biting remark, often, as you say, expressed in
>> positive-sounding words.
>>
>> He was actually being ironic, saying one thing and meaning the
>> opposite.
>
>Yes, but that is true only in BrE. AmE irony is expressed by the following
>example:
The first someone was British. I violated my own rule in not
mentioning that, but I forgot that my sig history didn't apply to the
speaker here
So in British English, in the example at the top, could sarcasm
include the use of negative words to express a positive meaning?
That if readers could understand that it was meant to be positive,
that would be sarcasm?
>
> Ironically, Sir Arthur Sullivan is remembered for the
> comic operas he found embarrassing, rather than the
> serious works he hoped would be his legacy.
>
>Quite a different thing.
--
Robert Lieblich
[ ... ]
> >>> Someone ends a paragraph with "You don't often associate California
> >>> with good looking women."
> So in British English, in the example at the top, could sarcasm
> include the use of negative words to express a positive meaning?
> That if readers could understand that it was meant to be positive,
> that would be sarcasm?
I doubt it. I think "sarcasm" in any context is saying something that
would be positive if limited to the meaning of the individual words
used but is converted to negative by tone of voice together with
context. Thus, if a poster to AUE says something quite incorrect,
like mistaking the subject of a sentence for the verb, someone might
respond: "Boy, <poster's name>, it's lucky for all of us in this
newsgroup that you' came by to clear that up." You don't even need a
tone of (spoken) voice for that one.
The whole idea being to convey something quite negative through the
use of a superficially positive statement, I don't see how "sarcasm"
could include the reverse -- positive words to express a negative
meaning. There are, of course, such statements; let's not forget
Graeme and his "idiot sibling." But this doesn't fit any definition
of "sarcasm" I've ever encountered. I believe this to be as true in
the UK as in the US. Even on this side of the Pond, I'd call it
"irony."
But what does a moron like I know about this compared to a wise man
like mm?
--
Bob Lieblich
What, indeed?
Donna Richoux
[snipped]
>
> The first someone was British. I violated my own rule in not
> mentioning that, but I forgot that my sig history didn't apply to the
> speaker here
>
> So in British English, in the example at the top, could sarcasm
> include the use of negative words to express a positive meaning?
> That if readers could understand that it was meant to be positive,
> that would be sarcasm?
What I've seen in a.u.e is what the others told you, that the British
use "sarcasm" to mean something really cruel and biting, and "irony" to
mean saying the opposite of what they mean, for humorous effect.
On the other hand, Californians (and a great many Americans) use
"sarcasm" to mean saying the opposite of what they mean, for humorous
effect, and "irony" to mean the surprising-yet-fitting-twist-of-fate
thing. You can imagine how confusing this gets.
Now you tell us that a Brit said the opposite of what he meant, not in
vicious cruelty, and later called that sarcasm. I can only think of two
reasons. Either the word has more meanings in the UK than I am yet
aware, or, possibly, the Brit (either from personal acquaintance or from
newsgroups or from living abroad) had learned that the Yanks he was
speaking to would understand the US word "sarcasm" better than the UK
word "irony."
Does this fit?
--
Best -- Donna Richoux
A Californian living in the Netherlands
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
wrote:
In BrE the word "sarcasm" can be modified to soften the meaning.
A Google search for
"gentle sarcasm" site:uk
finds only 540 results but many on the first page are from mainstream
national newspapers and other mainstream sites. There is no sense that
it is a quirky concept.
> or, possibly, the Brit (either from personal acquaintance or from
>newsgroups or from living abroad) had learned that the Yanks he was
>speaking to would understand the US word "sarcasm" better than the UK
>word "irony."
>
>Does this fit?
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.english.usage)
tony cooper
<r_s_li...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>The whole idea being to convey something quite negative through the
>use of a superficially positive statement, I don't see how "sarcasm"
>could include the reverse -- positive words to express a negative
>meaning.
Sure, Bob. You're never wrong.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
mm
wrote:
>mm <NOPSAM...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
Well, not associating California with good-looking women is an insult
but it's not really cruel or biting. I don't see California crying.
> and "irony" to
>mean saying the opposite of what they mean, for humorous effect.
In a later post, after I challenged the notion it was sarcasm, he
referred to "sarcasm or irony". After I read the reference to irony
here, I referred to "sarcasm or irony" too.
>On the other hand, Californians (and a great many Americans) use
>"sarcasm" to mean saying the opposite of what they mean, for humorous
>effect, and "irony" to mean the surprising-yet-fitting-twist-of-fate
>thing. You can imagine how confusing this gets.
>
>Now you tell us that a Brit said the opposite of what he meant, not in
>vicious cruelty, and later called that sarcasm. I can only think of two
>reasons. Either the word has more meanings in the UK than I am yet
>aware, or,
Or possibly he misused the word also by British standards.
> possibly, the Brit (either from personal acquaintance or from
>newsgroups or from living abroad) had learned that the Yanks he was
>speaking to would understand the US word "sarcasm" better than the UK
>word "irony."
>
>Does this fit?
I don't know. I found your post very informative, but I'm confused by
two words, two hemispheres, and several definitinos.
Plus Peter's post changes things a bit also.
mm
<ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
>
>>What I've seen in a.u.e is what the others told you, that the British
>>use "sarcasm" to mean something really cruel and biting, and "irony" to
>>mean saying the opposite of what they mean, for humorous effect.
>>On the other hand, Californians (and a great many Americans) use
>>"sarcasm" to mean saying the opposite of what they mean, for humorous
>>effect, and "irony" to mean the surprising-yet-fitting-twist-of-fate
>>thing. You can imagine how confusing this gets.
>>
>>Now you tell us that a Brit said the opposite of what he meant, not in
>>vicious cruelty, and later called that sarcasm. I can only think of two
>>reasons. Either the word has more meanings in the UK than I am yet
>>aware,
>
>In BrE the word "sarcasm" can be modified to soften the meaning.
>
>A Google search for
>
> "gentle sarcasm" site:uk
>
>finds only 540 results but many on the first page are from mainstream
Peter, I copied nd pasted your search terms,
"gentle sarcasm" site:uk
into google and I only got 32 results. When I display with the "very
similar entries" included, it goes up to 39. I've limited my results
to English, Hebrew, and Spanish, but I can't imagine that made much
difference**. Especially since this ia a UK only search and the
search terms are English. **For example, wWhen it can't find
many results in those three languages, it still gives results in
Chinese or Japanese.
**I should run the search without that limitation, but I'm tired.
>national newspapers and other mainstream sites. There is no sense that
>it is a quirky concept.
I did see hits from the Guaridan, the Telegraph, classic book club,
that use the term gentle sarcasm.
So you're saying that's what the guy I quoted, in the OP, used? (I
felt the need for commas, because "in the OP used" sounded funny.)
>Peter Duncanson, UK
>(in alt.english.usage)
--
Robert Lieblich
Actually, I was. I meant you don't see "negative words to express a
positive meaning," which I thought was what mm was asking about.
Aw, hell, I'll never untangle this now.
But I do want Coop to know that when he's right, he's right.
--
Bob Lieblich
Help!
Peter Moylan
> On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 00:42:51 +0000, "Peter Duncanson (BrE)"
> <ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
>> A Google search for
>>
>> "gentle sarcasm" site:uk
>>
>> finds only 540 results but many on the first page are from
>> mainstream
>
> Peter, I copied nd pasted your search terms,
>
> "gentle sarcasm" site:uk
>
> into google and I only got 32 results. When I display with the
> "very similar entries" included, it goes up to 39.
That illustrates something that many people have already noticed: that
Google frivolously changes the answers depending on who is asking.
Someone at Google must have noticed that people were using the counts,
and decided to throw a spanner in the works.
I got 544 hits, and my only surprise is that that's a close match to
what Peter got.
--
Peter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org
For an e-mail address, see my web page.
tony cooper
<r_s_li...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>tony cooper wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 18:14:49 -0500, Robert Lieblich
>> <r_s_li...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> >The whole idea being to convey something quite negative through the
>> >use of a superficially positive statement, I don't see how "sarcasm"
>> >could include the reverse -- positive words to express a negative
>> >meaning.
>>
>> Sure, Bob. You're never wrong.
>
>Actually, I was. I meant you don't see "negative words to express a
>positive meaning," which I thought was what mm was asking about.
>
>Aw, hell, I'll never untangle this now.
>
>But I do want Coop to know that when he's right, he's right.
I was using positive words to express a negative meaning. Nothing
personal.
Negative words are often used to express a positive. "Bad" is
currently positive. Some, like "You old hound dog", are not strongly
negative but are on the negative side. I would not say, though, that
these are examples of sarcasm.
Patok
>
> But what does a moron like I know about this compared to a wise man
> like mm?
Please. It must be "a moron like me", or "a moron like (what) I
am". We discussed that recently, right?
--
You'd be crazy to e-mail me with the crazy. But leave the div alone.
Patok
> mm wrote:
>> On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 00:42:51 +0000, "Peter Duncanson (BrE)"
>> <ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
>
>>> A Google search for
>>>
>>> "gentle sarcasm" site:uk
>>>
>>> finds only 540 results but many on the first page are from
>>> mainstream
>>
>> Peter, I copied nd pasted your search terms,
>>
>> "gentle sarcasm" site:uk
>>
>> into google and I only got 32 results. When I display with the
>> "very similar entries" included, it goes up to 39.
>
> That illustrates something that many people have already noticed: that
> Google frivolously changes the answers depending on who is asking.
> Someone at Google must have noticed that people were using the counts,
> and decided to throw a spanner in the works.
>
> I got 544 hits, and my only surprise is that that's a close match to
> what Peter got.
That's weird. I got 544 hits too, and I live right next door to mm.
He can see me from his house while posting, or at least that's what he
wrote once.
Jerry Friedman
> Robert Lieblich wrote:
>
> > But what does a moron like I know about this compared to a wise man
> > like mm?
>
> Please. It must be "a moron like me", or "a moron like (what) I
> am". We discussed that recently, right?
Bob was being ironic. He doesn't think he's a moron, either.
Back to the topic--I can imagine an American referring to this sort of
verbal irony as sarcasm. I don't have any examples, though.
And then a positive meaning directed at one may be a negative meaning
directed at another.
"Naively, I thought a plumber would bring the tools he needed."
"Chris, you fool!"
--
Jerry Friedman
Patok
> On Nov 19, 10:08 pm, Patok <crazy.div.pa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Robert Lieblich wrote:
>>
>>> But what does a moron like I know about this compared to a wise man
>>> like mm?
>> Please. It must be "a moron like me", or "a moron like (what) I
>> am". We discussed that recently, right?
>
> Bob was being ironic. He doesn't think he's a moron, either.
Heh. I would have been ironic, too, if I was addressing that part
of his statement. I should have written "We discussed that /turn of
phrase/ recently, right?"
I don't think he's a moron, either.
Mike Barnes
>What I've seen in a.u.e is what the others told you, that the British
>use "sarcasm" to mean something really cruel and biting, and "irony" to
>mean saying the opposite of what they mean, for humorous effect.
>On the other hand, Californians (and a great many Americans) use
>"sarcasm" to mean saying the opposite of what they mean, for humorous
>effect, and "irony" to mean the surprising-yet-fitting-twist-of-fate
>thing. You can imagine how confusing this gets.
Actually all those meanings, including the American ones, are in
widespread use in the UK.
>Now you tell us that a Brit said the opposite of what he meant, not in
>vicious cruelty, and later called that sarcasm. I can only think of two
>reasons. Either the word has more meanings in the UK than I am yet
>aware,
Yes... see above. I suspect that when he used the word "sarcastic" he
was simply saying "I didn't really mean it" without consideration of his
reasons.
>or, possibly, the Brit (either from personal acquaintance or from
>newsgroups or from living abroad) had learned that the Yanks he was
>speaking to would understand the US word "sarcasm" better than the UK
>word "irony."
Possibly, but even when speaking to another Brit he'd be unlikely to use
the word "irony" in that context. If he really wanted to stress that he
was aiming for humour rather than cruelty, he'd find some more explicit
way of putting that across.
--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England
Nick Spalding
on Fri, 20 Nov 2009 14:40:52 +1100:
> mm wrote:
> > On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 00:42:51 +0000, "Peter Duncanson (BrE)"
> > <ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
>
> >> A Google search for
> >>
> >> "gentle sarcasm" site:uk
> >>
> >> finds only 540 results but many on the first page are from
> >> mainstream
> >
> > Peter, I copied nd pasted your search terms,
> >
> > "gentle sarcasm" site:uk
> >
> > into google and I only got 32 results. When I display with the
> > "very similar entries" included, it goes up to 39.
>
> That illustrates something that many people have already noticed: that
> Google frivolously changes the answers depending on who is asking.
> Someone at Google must have noticed that people were using the counts,
> and decided to throw a spanner in the works.
>
> I got 544 hits, and my only surprise is that that's a close match to
> what Peter got.
541 here.
--
Nick Spalding
BrE/IrE
mm
wrote:
>Peter Moylan wrote:
>> mm wrote:
>>> On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 00:42:51 +0000, "Peter Duncanson (BrE)"
>>> <ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
>>
>>>> A Google search for
>>>>
>>>> "gentle sarcasm" site:uk
>>>>
>>>> finds only 540 results but many on the first page are from
>>>> mainstream
>>>
>>> Peter, I copied nd pasted your search terms,
>>>
>>> "gentle sarcasm" site:uk
>>>
>>> into google and I only got 32 results. When I display with the
>>> "very similar entries" included, it goes up to 39.
>>
>> That illustrates something that many people have already noticed: that
>> Google frivolously changes the answers depending on who is asking.
>> Someone at Google must have noticed that people were using the counts,
>> and decided to throw a spanner in the works.
>>
>> I got 544 hits, and my only surprise is that that's a close match to
>> what Peter got.
>
> That's weird. I got 544 hits too,
Well, I just did it again, and I got 545 hits, even though I hadn't
changed anything. I didnt' change the languages it should look for,
but OTOH, it usually lists on the second or third line the languages
it looked for, and there is no list. There was probably no list of
languages yesterday either, or I would have noticed it.
Looking some more, I see that there is no "preferences" link, where I
set the languages and the number of hits per page, but there is on the
left "Show Options". If the options have replaced the preferences,
then how come there is no choice of languages there? Just these
things?
All results
Videos
News
Blogs
Books
Forums
� Any time
Recent results
Past hour
Past 24 hours
Past week
Past year
Specific date range
� Standard view
Related searches
Wonder wheel
Timeline
� Standard results
Images from the page
Fewer shopping sites
More shopping sites
Page previews
>and I live right next door to mm.
>He can see me from his house while posting, or at least that's what he
>wrote once.
I don't quite remember that, but it sounds like something I would say.
mm
<mikeb...@bluebottle.com> wrote:
>Donna Richoux <tr...@euronet.nl>:
>>What I've seen in a.u.e is what the others told you, that the British
>>use "sarcasm" to mean something really cruel and biting, and "irony" to
>>mean saying the opposite of what they mean, for humorous effect.
>>On the other hand, Californians (and a great many Americans) use
>>"sarcasm" to mean saying the opposite of what they mean, for humorous
>>effect, and "irony" to mean the surprising-yet-fitting-twist-of-fate
>>thing. You can imagine how confusing this gets.
>
>Actually all those meanings, including the American ones, are in
>widespread use in the UK.
>
>>Now you tell us that a Brit said the opposite of what he meant, not in
>>vicious cruelty, and later called that sarcasm. I can only think of two
>>reasons. Either the word has more meanings in the UK than I am yet
>>aware,
>
>Yes... see above. I suspect that when he used the word "sarcastic" he
>was simply saying "I didn't really mean it" without consideration of his
>reasons.
Aha! That's the answer. People often do that.
....
JimboCat
> Someone ends a paragraph with "You don't often associate California
> with good looking women."
>
> Later some Californian pretends to be offended, and the first person
> says, I was being sarcastic. I do associate California and the movies
> etc. with good looking women.
>
> I trust him that he was kidding in the first sentence, but was the
> first sentence sarcasm? Is sarcasm the right word?
>
> Somehow, I'm not sure.
>
> Offhand, it seems to me, that sarcasm is a negative statement
> expressed in positive-sounding words.
>
> His first sentence would have been a positive statement in
> negative-souding words. What does one call that?
>
> I don't know what one calls that, but it doesn't seem like sarcasm to
> me.
There is no possible way to untangle this issue. You can use the word
"sarcastic" ironically. You can use the word "ironic" sarcastically.
It's just a total mess of shared context, and if you aren't in the
loop, you're out of luck.
As the kids say nowadays, "Sarcasm is my sword, Apathy is my shield."
Jim Deutch (JimboCat)
--
"There was nothing very interesting in Katherine P. Rankin’s study of
sarcasm — at least, nothing worth your important time. All she did was
use an M.R.I. to find the place in the brain where the ability to
detect sarcasm resides. But then, you probably already knew it was in
the right parahippocampal gyrus." -- DAN HURLEY
Nick Spalding
on Fri, 20 Nov 2009 11:54:57 -0500:
Preferences have moved into Settings up at the top right of the window
renamed Search Settings.
Nick Spalding
BrE/IrE
mm
wrote:
Thanks. Well. Somehow my language preferences are gone but my
results per page has stayed the same. That's mildly strange.
I never noticed a difference with my language settings but I reset
them anyhow and repeated yesterdays search and again got 545 hits.
(No list of languages searched, like there used to be.)
I copied and pasted yesterday also and I have no idea how I more than
once yesterday got only 32 hits.
John Varela
<tony_co...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Negative words are often used to express a positive. "Bad" is
> currently positive. Some, like "You old hound dog", are not strongly
> negative but are on the negative side.
I take that as an example of a different phenomenon. It's common
among men, at least among American men, to express affection through
insult. "Why Coop, you old son of a bitch, it's great to hear from
you again!" sort of thing.
--
John Varela
Trade NEWlamps for OLDlamps for email
tony cooper
wrote:
Can be. Or, it can be mildly disparaging. Let's say a friend of
yours, who is married, admits that he is seeing some bint on the side.
You say "You old hound dog!". Depending on your view of this, it can
be anything from admiring to disapproving.
Donna Richoux
>
> Thanks. Well. Somehow my language preferences are gone but my
> results per page has stayed the same. That's mildly strange.
>
> I never noticed a difference with my language settings but I reset
> them anyhow and repeated yesterdays search and again got 545 hits.
> (No list of languages searched, like there used to be.)
>
> I copied and pasted yesterday also and I have no idea how I more than
> once yesterday got only 32 hits.
All I can say is that the same thing has happened to me and other
people, at other times. There are other inexplicable irregularities in
those numbers, and taken together, they mean we can't rely on Google
counts to prove much of anything.
Roland Hutchinson
> On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 08:56:13 +0000, Mike Barnes
> <mikeb...@bluebottle.com> wrote:
>
>>Donna Richoux <tr...@euronet.nl>:
>>>What I've seen in a.u.e is what the others told you, that the British
>>>use "sarcasm" to mean something really cruel and biting, and "irony" to
>>>mean saying the opposite of what they mean, for humorous effect. On the
>>>other hand, Californians (and a great many Americans) use "sarcasm" to
>>>mean saying the opposite of what they mean, for humorous effect, and
>>>"irony" to mean the surprising-yet-fitting-twist-of-fate thing. You can
>>>imagine how confusing this gets.
>>
>>Actually all those meanings, including the American ones, are in
>>widespread use in the UK.
>>
>>>Now you tell us that a Brit said the opposite of what he meant, not in
>>>vicious cruelty, and later called that sarcasm. I can only think of two
>>>reasons. Either the word has more meanings in the UK than I am yet
>>>aware,
>>
>>Yes... see above. I suspect that when he used the word "sarcastic" he
>>was simply saying "I didn't really mean it" without consideration of his
>>reasons.
>
> Aha! That's the answer. People often do that.
A/k/a being facetious -- to throw the third term into the mix.
--
Roland Hutchinson
He calls himself "the Garden State's leading violist da gamba,"
... comparable to being ruler of an exceptionally small duchy.
--Newark (NJ) Star Ledger ( http://tinyurl.com/RolandIsNJ )
Frank ess
If there's anything I like, it's a sarcastic SOB.
--
Frank ess
R H Draney
>
>mm <NOPSAM...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>>
>> I copied and pasted yesterday also and I have no idea how I more than
>> once yesterday got only 32 hits.
>
>All I can say is that the same thing has happened to me and other
>people, at other times. There are other inexplicable irregularities in
>those numbers, and taken together, they mean we can't rely on Google
>counts to prove much of anything.
Other than, perhaps, the heat death of the universe....r
--
A pessimist sees the glass as half empty.
An optometrist asks whether you see the glass
more full like this?...or like this?
Reinhold {Rey} Aman
[...]
> If there's anything I like, it's a sarcastic SOB.
Sarcasm you vant? Try this (very long!):
http://aman.members.sonic.net/j-accuse.html
(I had to call it "satire," because the federal cretins wouldn't know
what "sarcasm" means.)
Best read as a downloaded file.
--
~~~ Reinhold {Rey} Aman ~~~
Old Sarcastic SOB
Nick
As in "a term of endearment amongst sailors"?
--
Online waterways route planner: http://canalplan.org.uk
development version: http://canalplan.eu
Nick
> Possibly, but even when speaking to another Brit he'd be unlikely to use
> the word "irony" in that context. If he really wanted to stress that he
> was aiming for humour rather than cruelty, he'd find some more explicit
> way of putting that across.
As in a recent email exchange I had with a colleague, where he said "I
hope you weren't being insulting when you said ...". I replied - "No.
When I'm being insulting you'll be in no doubt about it".
Steve Hayes
>
>Someone ends a paragraph with "You don't often associate California
>with good looking women."
>
>Later some Californian pretends to be offended, and the first person
>says, I was being sarcastic. I do associate California and the movies
>etc. with good looking women.
>
>I trust him that he was kidding in the first sentence, but was the
>first sentence sarcasm? Is sarcasm the right word?
Sarcasm is intended to be cruel and cutting.
So if the person is talking to a Californian, especially a female one, it
probably is sarcasm.
>
>Somehow, I'm not sure.
>
>Offhand, it seems to me, that sarcasm is a negative statement
>expressed in positive-sounding words. �
>
>His first sentence would have been a positive statement in
>negative-souding words. � What does one call that?
>
>I don't know what one calls that, but it doesn't seem like sarcasm to
>me.
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
CDB
> "John Varela" <OLDl...@verizon.net> writes:
>> tony cooper <tony_co...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Negative words are often used to express a positive. "Bad" is
>>> currently positive. Some, like "You old hound dog", are not
>>> strongly negative but are on the negative side.
>>
>> I take that as an example of a different phenomenon. It's common
>> among men, at least among American men, to express affection
>> through insult. "Why Coop, you old son of a bitch, it's great to
>> hear from you again!" sort of thing.
>
> As in "a term of endearment amongst sailors"?
>
Robin Bignall
<am...@sonic.net> wrote:
>Frank ess wrote:
>[...]
>> If there's anything I like, it's a sarcastic SOB.
>
>Sarcasm you vant? Try this (very long!):
>
>http://aman.members.sonic.net/j-accuse.html
>
>(I had to call it "satire," because the federal cretins wouldn't know
>what "sarcasm" means.)
>
>Best read as a downloaded file.
Fascinating. Did Ms Reno reply or repent?
--
Robin
(BrE)
Herts, England
mm
wrote:
I guess not.
I'm glad I was never into that count thing anyhow.
I thought it didn't report on languages because one of the search
terms was site:uk , so I took that out but nothing changed.
Yet in another search a few minutes later, it did list the languages I
had chosen.
Reinhold {Rey} Aman
>
> Reinhold {Rey} Aman wrote:
>> Frank ess wrote:
>> [...]
>>> If there's anything I like, it's a sarcastic SOB.
>>
>> Sarcasm you vant? Try this (very long!):
>>
>> http://aman.members.sonic.net/j-accuse.html
>>
>> (I had to call it "satire," because the federal cretins
>> wouldn't know what "sarcasm" means.)
>>
>> Best read as a downloaded file.
>
> Fascinating. Did Ms Reno reply or repent?
>
And morally too corrupt to repent.