Etymology of the word "Cantabria"...
fepegui
I would like some info about the likely etymology of English term "kent",
because I was told by one of my English teachers that this word is related
with a Spanish region named "Cantabria", which is just in front of the
English coast. The English "Kent" thru the word "kentwara" (?) would produce
eventually "Cantabria". I think that some other words that can be related
are:
canton (as province in Switzerland), county...
From other source I have heard that "Cantabria" means "mountains around the
Iber (actually, the Ebro river)". In fact, this river is born in this
region. But I dont know where the "Canta-" part comes from...
According to my Webster dictionary, "cant" (that could be related) means,
among other meanings, "corner" or "beveled". Could it signify "the edge of
the (river) Iber", where it is born?
I would appreciate your comments on these hypothesis...
BTW, where can I find a good site about etymology (English and/or Spanish)?
Thank you very much indeed.
John O'Flaherty
<fepegui...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I would like some info about the likely etymology of English term "kent",
>because I was told by one of my English teachers that this word is related
>with a Spanish region named "Cantabria", which is just in front of the
>English coast. The English "Kent" thru the word "kentwara" (?) would produce
>eventually "Cantabria". I think that some other words that can be related
>are:
>
>canton (as province in Switzerland), county...
>
>From other source I have heard that "Cantabria" means "mountains around the
>Iber (actually, the Ebro river)". In fact, this river is born in this
>region. But I dont know where the "Canta-" part comes from...
>
>According to my Webster dictionary, "cant" (that could be related) means,
>among other meanings, "corner" or "beveled". Could it signify "the edge of
>the (river) Iber", where it is born?
>
>I would appreciate your comments on these hypothesis...
I can't comment on the whole hypothesis. However, there is a Spanish
word 'canto' (not the word that means song) meaning side or corner.
The dictionary of the Spanish Academy attributes it to Greek 'kanthos'
(if I've transliterated it correctly), or 'corner', through the Latin
word 'canthus'.
john
Donna Richoux
The _Oxford Dictionary of English Place-names_ is found at xrefer.com. I
suggest you start by looking up Kent, Canterbury (which is related to
Kent) and Cambridge (which is not, but has the adjective Cantabridgian).
Beyond that, although you can find etymological information on
placenames scattered across the Web, there is no single site that pulls
all that info together, as far as I have been able to tell.
Brewer's _Dictionary of Names_ says that the Cantabrian Mountains, on
the north coast of Spain (which I guess is what you mean by "just in
front" although it's 500 miles and France is in the way) comes from a
Mediterranean root word 'kanto" meaning 'rock, stone.' No connection.
That book is a very good buy, by the way, only 10 pounds for 600
information-filled pages.
For etymologies of ordinary words (canton, country, etc.) try
Merriam-Webster at m-w.com and American Heritage at bartleby.com.
I've learned to be cautious about any glib theories about placenames.
They are often so old that they don't mean what they seem to on the
surface. The first reference I mention shows there are many other
placenames in England starting with "Kent-" and most of them are not
connected to the county of Kent.
I remember that it has something like twenty-five placenames in the UK
starting with "Wool-" and only *one* of them has a connection with
sheep. The others all come from "Wulfric" and things like that.
--
Best -- Donna Richoux
dcw
fepegui <fepegui...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I would like some info about the likely etymology of English term "kent",
>because I was told by one of my English teachers that this word is related
>with a Spanish region named "Cantabria", which is just in front of the
>English coast. The English "Kent" thru the word "kentwara" (?) would produce
>eventually "Cantabria". I think that some other words that can be related
>are:
>
>canton (as province in Switzerland), county...
Not "county", which is related to "count" (although we call them "earls").
I didn't make the connection until I saw the word translated into German.
>According to my Webster dictionary, "cant" (that could be related) means,
>among other meanings, "corner" or "beveled".
"Canterbury" is something like "the fort of the Kentish people". "Kent"
is a very old name (pre-Roman), and I'm not conviced by the meanings
proposed for it. Possibly related to "Cornwall", at the other end of
the English South coast.
David
Stephen Toogood
>Hi,
>
>I would like some info about the likely etymology of English term "kent",
>because I was told by one of my English teachers that this word is related
>with a Spanish region named "Cantabria", which is just in front of the
>English coast. The English "Kent" thru the word "kentwara" (?) would produce
>eventually "Cantabria". I think that some other words that can be related
>are:
>
>canton (as province in Switzerland), county...
>
>From other source I have heard that "Cantabria" means "mountains around the
>Iber (actually, the Ebro river)". In fact, this river is born in this
>region. But I dont know where the "Canta-" part comes from...
>
>According to my Webster dictionary, "cant" (that could be related) means,
>among other meanings, "corner" or "beveled". Could it signify "the edge of
>the (river) Iber", where it is born?
>
>I would appreciate your comments on these hypothesis...
>
one you mention is what we get Canterbury from, and it may be that the
Spanish province has a name of Roman origin too.
The Roman names are often perpetuated in the official names of bishops:
for example the Archbishop of York signs himself 'John Ebor +' (short
for Eboracum).
You also need to be careful to distinguish between Canterbury and
Cambridge.
--
Stephen Toogood
dcw
Stephen Toogood <ste...@stenches.nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
[snip]
>Names like this in England usually date from the Roman occupation. The
>one you mention is what we get Canterbury from, and it may be that the
>Spanish province has a name of Roman origin too.
Very few English placenames date from Roman times. Kent is pre-Roman
(which is also rare). Most names are Anglo-Saxon, as is Canterbury
(derived from Kent).
>The Roman names are often perpetuated in the official names of bishops:
>for example the Archbishop of York signs himself 'John Ebor +' (short
>for Eboracum).
That one is real Latin, but some of these names are Latinized English,
like --
David Cantuar
The Bibliographer
Stephen Toogood <ste...@stenches.nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>for Eboracum).
Eboracensis, actually -- but Eboracum (York) IS the nominative.
--
Regards, Frank Young
tip...@wam.umd.edu 703-527-7684
Post Office Box 2793, Kensington, Maryland 20891
"Videmus nunc per speculum in aenigmate... Nunc cognosco ex parte"
The Bibliographer
It may seem so, but Cantuara is found as early as the seventh century,
hence Cantuariensis. The significant abbreviation is almost as old as
Ebor.
Cantuara, btw, should be "Kentish altar" or "altar of Kent" -- which is
exactly what Augustine found there. Canterbury, grave of the Kentish (like
unto Bury St. Edmunds), is a later noun.
M.J.Powell
>In article <V75ZPNCC...@stenches.demon.co.uk>,
>Stephen Toogood <ste...@stenches.nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>[snip]
>
>>Names like this in England usually date from the Roman occupation. The
>>one you mention is what we get Canterbury from, and it may be that the
>>Spanish province has a name of Roman origin too.
>
>Very few English placenames date from Roman times. Kent is pre-Roman
>(which is also rare). Most names are Anglo-Saxon, as is Canterbury
>(derived from Kent).
Well, I have heard it pronounced 'Kenterbury'.
Mike
--
M.J.Powell
Nick Wedd
>I would like some info about the likely etymology of English term "kent",
>because I was told by one of my English teachers that this word is related
>with a Spanish region named "Cantabria", which is just in front of the
>English coast. The English "Kent" thru the word "kentwara" (?) would produce
>eventually "Cantabria". I think that some other words that can be related
>are:
The Cantabrian mountains are in northern Spain. They are not on the
coast. No part of Spain is "just in front of" the English coast.
I suspect it is a coincidence that the south-eastern-most county of
England is called Kent, while that of Wales is called Gwent.
Nick
--
Nick Wedd ni...@maproom.co.uk
Robert Bannister
Is there any connection between Kent and Ghent etymologically?
--
Rob Bannister
M.J.Powell
<ni...@maproom.co.uk> writes
And that place in Belgium - Ghent
Mike
--
M.J.Powell
John Holmes
"dcw" <D.C....@ukc.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:76...@myrtle.ukc.ac.uk...
>
> "Canterbury" is something like "the fort of the Kentish people".
"Kent"
> is a very old name (pre-Roman), and I'm not conviced by the meanings
> proposed for it. Possibly related to "Cornwall", at the other end of
> the English South coast.
Interesting theory. Looking up Nance's Guide to Cornish Place Names, the
elements
can = pure white
ter[*], tair = pure, clear
[*] with a long dash over the 'e'
Aren't there some cliffs around there somewhere? It's probably just
coincidence, though.
--
Regards
John
Donna Richoux
> Is there any connection between Kent and Ghent etymologically?
Brewer's _Names_ says that Ghent probably comes from ancient Celtic
meaning "confluence of rivers," and Kent is a very old name, probably
from Celtic "border, edge." It says the Greek, Strabo, mentioned Kent in
the 1st century BC.
Donna Richoux
That's what you found when you looked up "Cornwall"? Oxford has
something totally different:
http://xrefer.com/entry.jsp?xrefid=600836&secid=.-
Cornwall (the county)
Cornubia c.705,
Cornwalas 891, Cornualia
1086 (Domesday Book).
'(Territory of) the
Britons or Welsh of the
Cornovii tribe'. Celtic
tribal name (meaning
'peninsula people') +
Old English walh (plural
walas).
A Dictionary of English Place-Names, Oxford University Press,
© A.D. Mills 1998
Or, you mean, the book about the Cornish language gave those meanings to
those syllables -- without any direct connection to any of the places
under discussion?
dcw
The Bibliographer <tip...@wam.umd.edu> wrote:
>In article <76...@myrtle.ukc.ac.uk>, dcw <D.C....@ukc.ac.uk> wrote:
>>That one is real Latin, but some of these names are Latinized English,
>>like --
>> David Cantuar
>
>It may seem so, but Cantuara is found as early as the seventh century,
>hence Cantuariensis. The significant abbreviation is almost as old as
>Ebor.
Unless we've wandered into the "BC" thread, the seventh century is Anglo-
Saxon, not Roman. Canterbury was was Durovernum when York was Eboracum.
David
Robert Bannister
Thank you.
--
Rob Bannister
John Holmes
"Donna Richoux" <tr...@euronet.nl> wrote in message
news:1fdth7n.1b7ftntewfaqrN%tr...@euronet.nl...
Interesting. I don't suppose it says how Strabo rendered the name Kent,
does
it? Anyone know?
(Incidentally, the Nance booklet on Cornish names has 'kendefryon' =
meeting-place of waters. I wonder if that's a cognate of 'Ghent'?)
--
Regards
John
John Holmes
> John Holmes <hol...@smart.net.au> wrote:
>
> > "dcw" <D.C....@ukc.ac.uk> wrote in message
> > news:76...@myrtle.ukc.ac.uk...
> > >
> > > "Canterbury" is something like "the fort of the Kentish people".
> > "Kent"
> > > is a very old name (pre-Roman), and I'm not conviced by the
meanings
> > > proposed for it. Possibly related to "Cornwall", at the other end
of
> > > the English South coast.
> >
> > Interesting theory. Looking up Nance's Guide to Cornish Place Names,
the
> > elements
> >
> > can = pure white
> > ter[*], tair = pure, clear
> >
> > [*] with a long dash over the 'e'
> >
> > Aren't there some cliffs around there somewhere? It's probably just
> > coincidence, though.
>
> That's what you found when you looked up "Cornwall"? Oxford has
> something totally different:
No, I didn't look up "Cornwall".
>
> http://xrefer.com/entry.jsp?xrefid=600836&secid=.-
>
> Cornwall (the county)
>
>
> Cornubia c.705,
> Cornwalas 891,
Cornualia
> 1086 (Domesday Book).
> '(Territory of) the
> Britons or Welsh of
the
> Cornovii tribe'.
Celtic
> tribal name (meaning
> 'peninsula people') +
> Old English walh
(plural
> walas).
>
>
> A Dictionary of English Place-Names, Oxford University Press,
> © A.D. Mills 1998
>
> Or, you mean, the book about the Cornish language gave those meanings
to
> those syllables -- without any direct connection to any of the places
> under discussion?
The booklet listed elements that appeared in place names from the
language. Out of idle curiosity, I simply looked for anything that
looked or sounded a bit like Kent or Canterbury, in order to see what
David could make of them. He said that it was supposed to be based on a
pre-Roman (ie Celtic) name, so perhaps there are some cognates recorded
in Cornish.
I thought that by "possibly related", he meant that it had arisen in a
similar way to, or at about the same time as, the name "Cornwall". That
name consists of a Celtic syllable with an English suffix tacked on. The
Cornish name for Cornwall is Kernow, with the 'same' (or cognate) first
syllable.
In "Canterbury", the -bury looks like a tacked-on syllable from English.
I have no idea whether the hypothetical original Celtic root might have
been something like "Kent" (and the "-er-" was interpolated when the
suffix was attached), or whether the original root was something like
"Canter-" (which lost an unstressed ending to give "Kent"). Both look
superficially feasible.
I don't know that there will be anyone reading this who knows Cornish
(or Breton?), but I think there are a few Welsh speakers about. I wonder
if they can make any sense of it?
--
Regards
John