Origin of 'copperosity'?
Mike Schwitzgebel
grandchildren, have tended to assume were made up to fill some momentary
lack in his English vocabulary. Some of these included "imitistically
speaking, and in an offhand manner", "rodamontating", and "copperosity".
When I decided to incorporate the last of these into a domain name, I
included on the associated web site my theory of where Granddad might have
come up with such a word, only to receive a half a dozen e-mails from people
whose fathers and grandfathers had also used the word. Since then, I have
tried, without success, to find a reference to "copperosity" in as many hard
copy and online dictionaries as I could readily access.
And now I pose the question to you all, in the hope that someone besides me
will find it intriguing.
As near as I've been able to tell, "copperosity" seems to have been in most
active use during the mid-to-late 19th century and early 20th. The word
seems to have been used in the context of physical health, as in, "Eat your
green beans; they're good for your copperosity" or "How's your copperosity
sagaciating, this morning?" All of the people who have told me that they
remember family members using the word live in the United States; however,
one gentleman remarked that his father used to used the word rather formally
to when addressing his wife, upon his return from work. He said that the
family background was "strictly English from way back, therefore fully
starched in speech, manners, posture, etc."
I have found only one more or less non-anecdotal reference, in a newspaper
column written by Kent Biffle for The Dallas Morning News. In the piece,
Biffle sets off on a tongue-in-cheek fit of pique over Nicholas Doran P.
Maillard's 1842 book, _The History of the Republic of Texas, From the
Discovery of the Country to the Present Time; And the Cause of Her
Separation from the Republic of Mexico_. In this book (according to
Biffle), Maillard observes that one common greeting, among Texans, is "How
does your copperosity sagaciate this morning?"(1)
So. My origin hypothesis is that, in the 19th century, some aspects of
health were associated with the concentration of copper in the blood--true,
of course--and that inquiring after one's "copperosity" was a colloquial way
of asking how he was feeling. That's only conjecture, however, and I'd like
to learn the historical origin, if one of you knows it. And, if someone
could suggest good sources for information on *other* such words, that would
be even better!
Mike
--
To reply via email, remove the TUMOR from my address.
1. Biffle, Kent. "Brit's take on state of republic." The Dallas Morning
News. 2 June, 2002.
John Dean
> My grandfather was fond of using odd-sounding words and phrases that
> we, his grandchildren, have tended to assume were made up to fill
> some momentary lack in his English vocabulary. Some of these
> included "imitistically speaking, and in an offhand manner",
> "rodamontating", and "copperosity".
>In this
> book (according to Biffle), Maillard observes that one common
> greeting, among Texans, is "How does your copperosity sagaciate this
> morning?"(1)
>
> So. My origin hypothesis is that, in the 19th century, some aspects
> of health were associated with the concentration of copper in the
> blood--true, of course--and that inquiring after one's "copperosity"
> was a colloquial way of asking how he was feeling. That's only
> conjecture, however, and I'd like to learn the historical origin, if
> one of you knows it.
OED has a cite for 'sagaciate' ('jocular comb of sagacious + ate):-
1832 Boston Transcript 2 Aug. 2/3 Well, Clem, how do you sagatiate dis lubly
wedder? 1842 Literary Gaz. 1 Jan. 6/3 How does your copperosity sagaciate
this morning? 1880 J. C. Harris Uncle Remus ii. 24 ‘How duz yo' sym'tums
seem ter segashuate?’ sez Brer Rabbit, sezee
and it has 'corporosity' ''= Bulkiness of body. Also used in a humorous
title or greeting (see quot. 1950).
1837 J. C. Neal Charcoal Sketches (Farmer), His corporosity touches the
ground with his hands in a vain attempt to reach it. 1870 O. Logan Before
Footlights 174 A gentleman endowed with an ample corporosity. 1890 Jrnl.
Amer. Folk-Lore III. 64 How does your corporosity sagatiate? 1922 Joyce
Ulysses 418 Your corporosity sagaciating O K? 1950 Publ. Amer. Dial. Soc.
XIV. 59 ‘How is your corporosity segaciating?’ meaning, how is your health?
''
So it seems to do with bodily bulk (cf Brit Eng 'corporation' - the body or
abdomen)
'rodomontating' is clearly from rodomontade / rhodomontade - boasting or
bragging. From Rodomont, a character in orlando Furioso
>And, if someone could suggest good sources for
> information on *other* such words, that would be even better!
Well, OED CD-ROM provided me with all the above. Of course, you could always
post queries here - it's the kind of thing we're interested in.!
Plus some of us are Grandfathers & welcome any hints that enable us to add
to our seeming eccentricity.
--
John Dean
Oxford
De-frag to reply
Mike Schwitzgebel
"John Dean" <john...@frag.lineone.net> wrote:
> and it has 'corporosity' ''= Bulkiness of body. Also used in a humorous
> title or greeting (see quot. 1950).
> 1837 J. C. Neal Charcoal Sketches (Farmer), His corporosity touches the
> ground with his hands in a vain attempt to reach it. 1870 O. Logan Before
> Footlights 174 A gentleman endowed with an ample corporosity. 1890 Jrnl.
> Amer. Folk-Lore III. 64 How does your corporosity sagatiate? 1922 Joyce
> Ulysses 418 Your corporosity sagaciating O K? 1950 Publ. Amer. Dial. Soc.
> XIV. 59 ‘How is your corporosity segaciating?’ meaning, how is your
health?
> ''
>
> So it seems to do with bodily bulk (cf Brit Eng 'corporation' - the body
or
> abdomen)
Thanks very much, John. That sounds definitive, to me. It also makes me
think that I might want to reconsider my pinchpenny ways and spring for
either the online or CD version of OED (I somehow suspect that the print
version would be in rather in the way, in my usual reading room).
> 'rodomontating' is clearly from rodomontade / rhodomontade - boasting or
> bragging. From Rodomont, a character in orlando Furioso
I had this one figured correctly, at least. Thanks, Dictionary.com!
> Well, OED CD-ROM provided me with all the above. Of course, you could
always
> post queries here - it's the kind of thing we're interested in.!
One likes to pick one's battles, however. Thanks again for the information.
Mike
Mike Lyle
> "John Dean" <john...@frag.lineone.net> wrote:
[...]
>
> > 'rodomontating' is clearly from rodomontade / rhodomontade - boasting or
> > bragging. From Rodomont, a character in orlando Furioso
And, boy, isn't it a beaut? I hope it spreads like wildfire.
Mike.
isb...@gmail.com
Mark Brader
because the root "corp-" means "body"); perhaps this "copperosity"
is a variation both of the word form and of the body part indicated.
--
Mark Brader ...the scariest words of the afternoon:
Toronto "Hey, don't worry, I've read all about
m...@vex.net doing this sort of thing!" -- Vernor Vinge
CDB
> I.S.B. Hall, apparently, writes:
>> My mother, born in 1929 in Texas and raised in Oklahoma use to say
>> copperosity all the time. She used it to refer to your rear-end ...
>> but always with a twinkle in her Irish eyes.
> Well, "corporation" can be a jocular word for a potbelly (I suppose
> because the root "corp-" means "body"); perhaps this "copperosity"
> is a variation both of the word form and of the body part indicated.
answered to the satisfaction of that OP by John Dean. "Corporosity", or
"bulkiness of body", more or less as you thought.
*Well, would you?
http://home.copperosity.com/copperosity.htm
Brian Austin
'body' back in the day. A quote I found:
�Steve, how does your corporosity seem to segashuate?�
�Fine as split silk,� promptly returned Steve.
The quote is from
http://deadconfederates.com/2011/11/11/everyone-laughs-both-at-and-with-steve/
(Steve Perry, better known now as �Uncle� Steve Eberhart, was
something of a minor celebrity at Confederate reunions in the early
1920s. He attended numerous reunions over the course of 20 years or
so, where he appeared in a tall, feathered stovepipe hat, carrying
live hens and a brightly-colored sash embroidered �ROME, GA,� and tiny
U.S. and Confederate flags pinned to his shoulder boards.)
The word also shows up in a book titled 'Some peculiarities of speech
in Mississippi':
http://www.archive.org/stream/somepeculiariti00shangoog/somepeculiariti00shangoog_djvu.txt
Here's the quote:
'Segashuate (sSg*aeJyu�t). This word is used by negroes in the
sentence : " How does your corporosity seem to sagashuate ? "
and is a common way of inquiring after anybody's health.
Corporosity seems to refer to bodily condition, and I suppose
is connected with the Latin coipus. Sagashuate, as far as I
know, is not used outside of this or similar expressions, and
here it would seem to mean to thrive or prosper.'
In Walt Kelly's marvelous comic strip "Pogo Possum' the characters
would sometimes greet each other in this way...
- Brian
PS. My spell checker recognizes both spellings of the verb!
CDB
>> Mark Brader wrote:
>>> I.S.B. Hall, apparently, writes:
>>>> My mother, born in 1929 in Texas and raised in Oklahoma use to say
>>>> copperosity all the time. She used it to refer to your rear-end ...
>>>> but always with a twinkle in her Irish eyes.
>>> Well, "corporation" can be a jocular word for a potbelly (I suppose
>>> because the root "corp-" means "body"); perhaps this "copperosity"
>>> is a variation both of the word form and of the body part indicated.
>> The question was raised here a bit over ten years ago, WYBI*, and
>> answered to the satisfaction of that OP by John Dean. "Corporosity", or
>> "bulkiness of body", more or less as you thought.
>> *Well, would you?
>> http://home.copperosity.com/copperosity.htm
> 'body' back in the day. A quote I found:
> �Fine as split silk,� promptly returned Steve.
> The quote is from
>
http://deadconfederates.com/2011/11/11/everyone-laughs-both-at-and-with-steve/
> 1920s. He attended numerous reunions over the course of 20 years or
> so, where he appeared in a tall, feathered stovepipe hat, carrying
> The word also shows up in a book titled 'Some peculiarities of speech
> in Mississippi':
>
http://www.archive.org/stream/somepeculiariti00shangoog/somepeculiariti00shangoog_djvu.txt
> Here's the quote:
> and is a common way of inquiring after anybody's health.
> Corporosity seems to refer to bodily condition, and I suppose
> is connected with the Latin coipus. Sagashuate, as far as I
> know, is not used outside of this or similar expressions, and
> here it would seem to mean to thrive or prosper.'
> In Walt Kelly's marvelous comic strip "Pogo Possum' the characters
> would sometimes greet each other in this way...
a strongly-preferred local custom, sometimes savagely enforced (we pout
and answer in riddles. Oh, wait ...).
I should think "sagashuate" is a verb formed from "sagacious", which
seems to have meant "good" as well as "wise" in C19 and not to have been
used much since. The Dog Crusoe was called "sagacious" by his master in
one of the two RM Ballantyne adventures I was able to get hold of as a
child. A Lab; what did he expect?
Dr Nick
to the old "copper bottom" for "Nicholas" joke.
Nick Spalding
on Tue, 08 Oct 2013 21:10:13 +0100:
--
Nick Spalding
BrE/IrE
CDB
Dr Nick
between the vowel at the end of "Nicholas" and the one in a non-rhotic
"arse".
Mike L
in the Anct History lesson in which Nikias and Brassas were
introduced.
--
Mike.
Peter Moylan
> On Wed, 09 Oct 2013 07:23:33 +0100, Dr Nick
> <nosp...@temporary-address.org.uk> wrote:
>
>> CDB <belle...@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> On 08/10/2013 4:10 PM, Dr Nick wrote:
>>>> CDB <belle...@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>> On 08/10/2013 4:09 AM, Mark Brader wrote:
>>>>>> I.S.B. Hall, apparently, writes:
>>>
>>>>>>> My mother, born in 1929 in Texas and raised in Oklahoma use to say
>>>>>>> copperosity all the time. She used it to refer to your rear-end ...
>>>>>>> but always with a twinkle in her Irish eyes.
>>>
>>>>>> Well, "corporation" can be a jocular word for a potbelly (I suppose
>>>>>> because the root "corp-" means "body"); perhaps this "copperosity"
>>>>>> is a variation both of the word form and of the body part indicated.
>>>
>>>>> The question was raised here a bit over ten years ago, WYBI*, and
>>>>> answered to the satisfaction of that OP by John Dean. "Corporosity",
>>>>> or "bulkiness of body", more or less as you thought.
>>>
>>>>> *Well, would you?
>>>
>>>>> http://home.copperosity.com/copperosity.htm
>>>
>>>> Although I can't help wondering, given the use to refer to the rear-end
>>>> to the old "copper bottom" for "Nicholas" joke.
>>>
>>> Took me a minute. You non-rhotics!
show called The Nicholas Parsons Show. Subsequently someone came up with
another TV show, almost certainly playing on the title of the first one,
called The Naked Vicar Show.
>> It doesn't even really work then - there's very little similarity
>> between the vowel at the end of "Nicholas" and the one in a non-rhotic
>> "arse".
>
> There was also a version "Brass-arse", which brought a snigger or two
> in the Anct History lesson in which Nikias and Brassas were
> introduced.
Islanders) were mentioned.
--
Peter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org
For an e-mail address, see my web page.
Dr Nick
> It took me a minute too, for a different reason. There used to be a TV
> show called The Nicholas Parsons Show. Subsequently someone came up with
> another TV show, almost certainly playing on the title of the first one,
> called The Naked Vicar Show.
knickerless ladies". The Two Ronnies, obviously.
R H Draney
--
Me? Sarcastic?
Yeah, right.
Jerry Friedman
> On 08/10/2013 1:01 PM, Brian Austin wrote:
> > CDB <belle...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Mark Brader wrote:
> >>> I.S.B. Hall, apparently, writes:
>
> >>>> My mother, born in 1929 in Texas and raised in Oklahoma use to say
> >>>> copperosity all the time. She used it to refer to your rear-end ...
> >>>> but always with a twinkle in her Irish eyes.
>
> >>> Well, "corporation" can be a jocular word for a potbelly (I suppose
> >>> because the root "corp-" means "body"); perhaps this "copperosity"
> >>> is a variation both of the word form and of the body part indicated.
>
> >> The question was raised here a bit over ten years ago, WYBI*, and
> >> answered to the satisfaction of that OP by John Dean. "Corporosity", or
> >> "bulkiness of body", more or less as you thought.
>
> >> *Well, would you?
>
> >> http://home.copperosity.com/copperosity.htm
>
> > A Web search confirms that 'corporosity' was Southern U.S. slang for
> > 'body' back in the day. A quote I found:
>
> > �Steve, how does your corporosity seem to segashuate?�
> > The quote is from
>
> http://deadconfederates.com/2011/11/11/everyone-laughs-both-at-and-with-steve/
>
> > in Mississippi':
>
> http://www.archive.org/stream/somepeculiariti00shangoog/somepeculiariti00shangoog_djvu.txt
>
> > Here's the quote:
>
> > 'Segashuate (sSg*aeJyu�t). This word is used by negroes in the
> > sentence : " How does your corporosity seem to sagashuate ? "
> > and is a common way of inquiring after anybody's health.
>
> > Corporosity seems to refer to bodily condition, and I suppose
> > is connected with the Latin coipus. Sagashuate, as far as I
> > know, is not used outside of this or similar expressions, and
> > here it would seem to mean to thrive or prosper.'
>
> > In Walt Kelly's marvelous comic strip "Pogo Possum' the characters
> > would sometimes greet each other in this way...
>
> > PS. My spell checker recognizes both spellings of the verb!
> I should think "sagashuate" is a verb formed from "sagacious", which
> seems to have meant "good" as well as "wise" in C19 and not to have been
> used much since. The Dog Crusoe was called "sagacious" by his master in
> one of the two RM Ballantyne adventures I was able to get hold of as a
> child. A Lab; what did he expect?
up on his behime legs like he wuz 'stonished. De Tar Baby, she sot dar,
she did, en Brer Fox, he lay low.
"'Mawnin'!' sez Brer Rabbit, sezee - 'nice wedder dis mawnin',' sezee.
"Tar-Baby ain't sayin' nuthin', en Brer Fox he lay low.
"'How duz yo' sym'tums seem ter segashuate?' sez Brer Rabbit, sezee.
"Brer Fox, he wink his eye slow, en lay low, en de Tar-Baby, she ain't
sayin' nuthin'.
http://xroads.virginia.edu/~ug97/remus/tar-baby.html
--
Jerry Friedman
Robin Bignall
celebrated his 90th birthday this week, and over 60 years in showbiz.
I wonder if that's getting on for a record.
--
Robin Bignall
Herts, England (BrE)
Richard Yates
1910 to 1996.
Mack A. Damia
--
R H Draney
business for "The Sunshine Boys"....
We had a form of this question some years ago on alt.movies.silent...I asked, in
reference to Lillian Gish, whether anyone had a longer movie career (Miss Gish's
ran from 1912's "An Unseen Enemy" to 1987's "The Whales of August" with at least
a few film appearances in each decade between)...75 years looked to be the
record until David Totheroh, a member of the group, reminded us that his father
Jack (son of Rollie Totheroh, one of Chaplin's favorite cinematographers) had
played the title role in the 1915 Broncho Billy Anderson western "The Bachelor's
Baby", and had a bit part as a cameraman in 1992's "Chaplin"....
Jack Totheroh, however, didn't appear in any movies between 1922 and 1992....r
![Peter Duncanson [BrE]'s profile photo](http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ACB-R5TETUvSPAcCzn6sfXB9Hz11RV11-3PPFsbi6Gs=s40-c)
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Perhaps having a wife aged 53 helps to keep him frisky.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Forsyth
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
CDB
[sagashuating the copperosities]
> Brer Rabbit come prancin' 'long twel he spy de Tar-Baby, en den he fotch
> up on his behime legs like he wuz 'stonished. De Tar Baby, she sot dar,
> she did, en Brer Fox, he lay low.
> "'Mawnin'!' sez Brer Rabbit, sezee - 'nice wedder dis mawnin',' sezee.
> "Tar-Baby ain't sayin' nuthin', en Brer Fox he lay low.
> "'How duz yo' sym'tums seem ter segashuate?' sez Brer Rabbit, sezee.
> "Brer Fox, he wink his eye slow, en lay low, en de Tar-Baby, she ain't
> sayin' nuthin'.
> http://xroads.virginia.edu/~ug97/remus/tar-baby.html
of the (artificial) dialect's non-standard features, but I can see how a
Black person might get the same feeling from it that Art Linklater used
to give me in broadcasts of _Kids Say the Darndest Things_ when I was a
kid. Too damned amusing, we were.
Robin Bignall
Gracie Allen.
Mack A. Damia
>On Sat, 12 Oct 2013 12:14:05 +0100, "Peter Duncanson [BrE]"
><ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 12 Oct 2013 00:34:50 +0100, Robin Bignall
>><docr...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On 11 Oct 2013 15:23:08 -0700, R H Draney <dado...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Dr Nick filted:
>>>>>
>>>>>Peter Moylan <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>> It took me a minute too, for a different reason. There used to be a TV
>>>>>> show called The Nicholas Parsons Show. Subsequently someone came up with
>>>>>> another TV show, almost certainly playing on the title of the first one,
>>>>>> called The Naked Vicar Show.
>>>>>
>>>>>"And now, a lady who like Nicholas Parsons; and a parson who likes
>>>>>knickerless ladies". The Two Ronnies, obviously.
>>>>
>>>>Was that the programme that kept confusing Flushing Meadows with WC Fields?...r
>>>
>>>Parsons, who his showbiz friends are always taking the piss out of,
>>>celebrated his 90th birthday this week, and over 60 years in showbiz.
>>>I wonder if that's getting on for a record.
>>
>>Bruce Forsyth is only 85 but he has been in showbiz for 74 years.
>>Perhaps having a wife aged 53 helps to keep him frisky.
>>
>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Forsyth
>
>I'm impressed with these numbers, but have never seen George Burns or
>Gracie Allen.
her, "Googie", and she called him, "Natty". His original name was
Nathan Birnbaum.
Very popular TV show and ahead of its time. He had his own "den",
where he watched the action of his wife and others on TV in a comedic
episode, and he's talk to the audience. He'd comment on what was
going on, but Gracie always got the better of him in the end.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CoYC1QhjgI
Her reasoning was obtusely humorous - but it usually made sense. When
a guest said he was from a town in Illinois, she said (living in
California), "I'm glad I didn't live there!". The guest asked why,
and she replied, "It would be so far to walk to school." The
announcer, Harry von Zell, became befuddled by her answers on numerous
occasions.
Here's a show. Many more on YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QO_StXExqU
--
Mike L
Forsyth appears only in TV programmes I don't watch: he makes me feel
slightly contaminated.
--
Mike.
Robert Bannister
can't remember, however, is how they came to be on British television.
They were definitely in black and white, and it was, I think, before I
left home, so presumably in the 50s. It was only a shortish segment if I
remember correctly - presumably part of another show - but I don't
remember any American variety shows at that time.
--
Robert Bannister
Robert Bannister
fair bit older then. I suppose what we saw were short film clips posted
over.
--
Robert Bannister
Robin Bignall
Mack A. Damia
<g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>In message <rpdh59pmrfnsa6hns...@4ax.com>
And she never said that. Ever.
But Dan Rowan would repeat, "Say goodnight Dick", to Dick Martin at
the end of every Laugh In show, and Dick would say, "Goodnight, Dick".
--