How do you spell the letters of the alphabet?

[Simon]

Dear wordheads

Do you know how to spell the letters of the alphabet. I was told 'aitch'
and then tried to find some of the others. I got dee, em, en, tee, vee &
zed. Just out of curiosity mind - I can't think why it would be useful
at all. If you know any others please let me know (with the source if
possible).

If you could post the answers to news (so that folks know when a letter
has been done) and send me a copy via direct email that would be great.

Thanks
Simon Steward

[Mark Baker]

In article <ssteward-030...@simons-mac.jungle.bt.co.uk>,
sste...@bt-sys.bt.co.uk (Simon) writes:

>Do you know how to spell the letters of the alphabet. I was told 'aitch'
>and then tried to find some of the others. I got dee, em, en, tee, vee &
>zed. Just out of curiosity mind - I can't think why it would be useful
>at all.

I can think why it would be very useful. The rules of Scrabble were
changed a few years ago to make letter names allowable words. Some of them
are quite useful for using up letters at the end of the game.

[Bob Cunningham]

mn...@cam.ac.uk (Mark Baker) wrote:

>In article <ssteward-030...@simons-mac.jungle.bt.co.uk>,
> sste...@bt-sys.bt.co.uk (Simon) writes:
>
>>Do you know how to spell the letters of the alphabet. I was told 'aitch'
>>and then tried to find some of the others. I got dee, em, en, tee, vee &
>>zed. Just out of curiosity mind - I can't think why it would be useful
>>at all.
>

_Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary_ ("A Merriam Webster")
has the following:

a: ---, b: bee, c: cee, d: dee, e: ---, f: ef, g: gee,
h: aitch, i: ---, j: jay, k: kay, l: el, m: em, n: en,
o: ---, p: pee, q: cue, r: ar, s: ess, t: tee, u: ---,
v: vee, w: double-u, x: ex, y: wye, z: zee or zed

>I can think why it would be very useful. The rules of Scrabble were
>changed a few years ago to make letter names allowable words. Some of them
>are quite useful for using up letters at the end of the game.
>

In our house the rules always were that any word was acceptable
if it was an entry in whatever dictionary we agreed to use, except
that it couldn't be capitalized and it couldn't contain a hyphen.
(That dictionary was always _The World Book Encyclopedia Dictionary_,
"a Thorndike Barnhart Dictionary", because in the days when we used to
play Scrabble that was the biggest dictionary we had. I see now that
we couldn't have used "ef" because it's not in that dictionary.)

If we had happened to agree to use Webster's Fifth Collegiate we
couldn't have used "ef" because it's not in there, but it is in
Webster's Seventh Collegiate.

I see my _The Official Scrabble Players Dictionary_
(Merriam-Webster 1978) has both "ef" and "eff". The Webster's Third
Unabridged also has both, but Webster's Ninth and Tenth Collegiates
have only "ef".

[Bill Choisser]

Simon wrote:
>
> Do you know how to spell the letters of the alphabet.

Spanish has spelling for its letters, e.g. "Dos equis" beer.
In English a letter is spelled with just the letter itself.
Look in your dictionary under each letter and you'll see it
discussed.

[John Lawler]

Simon <sste...@bt-sys.bt.co.uk> writes:

>Dear wordheads

>Do you know how to spell the letters of the alphabet. I was told 'aitch'
>and then tried to find some of the others. I got dee, em, en, tee, vee &
>zed. Just out of curiosity mind - I can't think why it would be useful

>at all. If you know any others please let me know (with the source if
>possible).

Dear letterhead,

a /e/ A [cap preferred]
b /bi/ B [ditto; 'bee' more common than 'be']
c /si/ C [ ", 'see'; but 'C-note' and 'cee-note' both occur]
d /di/ dee
e /i/ ee or E
f /ef/ ef, or eff ['you effing idiot!']
g /ji/ gee ['jee' is possible but not recommended]
h /ec^/ aitch [the 't' seems to be required]
i /ay/ I or aye, occasionally 'eye'; cf 'eye-dialect'
j /je/ jay
k /ke/ kay
l /El/ el, or ell
m /Em/ em [cf em-dash]
n /En/ en [cf en-dash]
o /o/ oh or owe ['ow' makes more sense but is already /aw/]
p /pi/ P ['pee' is less common, because of its vulgar homophone]
q /kyu/ queue, or cue [not recommended]
r /ar/ are? ar? ahr? arr? nothing looks good; use R
s /es/ es or ess
t /ti/ tee
u /yu/ you, or yoo
v /vi/ vee [delta-vee, or dee-vee]
w /d@b@lyu/ double-u or doubleyou
x /Eks/ ex [shorter to spell than to pronounce!]
y /way/ why, or wye
z /zi/ zee [US usage; elsewhere zed]

Spelling the letter names is not frequent enough in written English
to be standard. There's lots of variation.

(posted and mailed)

- John Lawler http://www.umich.edu/ling/jlawler/ U Michigan Linguistics
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Language is the most massive and inclusive art we know, a - Edward Sapir
mountainous and anonymous work of unconscious generations." Language (1921)

[Mark Baker]

In article <31b32495...@nntp.ix.netcom.com>,
exw...@ix.netcom.com (Bob Cunningham) writes:

>>I can think why it would be very useful. The rules of Scrabble were
>>changed a few years ago to make letter names allowable words. Some of them
>>are quite useful for using up letters at the end of the game.
>>
> In our house the rules always were that any word was acceptable
>if it was an entry in whatever dictionary we agreed to use, except
>that it couldn't be capitalized and it couldn't contain a hyphen.

The official rules used to specifically disallow letter names I believe,
but apparently this was changed a few years ago. Of course the rules
in our house were similar to yours and probably to those in houses
everywhere.

> I see my _The Official Scrabble Players Dictionary_
>(Merriam-Webster 1978) has both "ef" and "eff".

The rules of Scrabble are slightly different in the US and the UK, in
that there isn't an official scrabble dictionary here - I can't
remember the exact rules, but basically you use a normal dictionary,
with most tournaments preferring Chambers (not, you understand, that
I've ever been near such an event, but I did read a book on Scrabble
a couple of years ago)

[H Andrew Chuang]

In article <4ovk84$7...@thighmaster.admin.lsa.umich.edu>,
John Lawler <jla...@snoopy.ling.lsa.umich.edu> wrote:

> z /zi/ zee [US usage; elsewhere zed]
>

Well, in Hong Kong, it's "zized" (the most convoluted alphabet
pronunciation). ;-)

[Tony Finch]

In article <4ovvuc$k...@lyra.csx.cam.ac.uk>, Mark Baker <mn...@cam.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> The rules of Scrabble are slightly different in the US and the UK, in
> that there isn't an official scrabble dictionary here

There is an official dictionary in the UK, and it's Chambers. There is
also a book called Official Scrabble Words, published by Chambers,
which contains all the words from the dictionary plus their
inflections that are short enough to fit on the board.

Tony.
--
"What it all amounts to is that english
is chiefly a matter of marksmanship."

[Matthew Rabuzzi]

Simon <sste...@bt-sys.bt.co.uk> writes:
: Do you know how to spell the letters of the alphabet?

A ay N en
B bee O oh
C cee P pee
D dee Q cue
E upside-down schwa R ar
F ef, eff S es, ess
G gee T tee
H aitch U ewe, yew, you
I aye, eye V vee
J jay W double-you, double-u
K kay X ex
L el, ell Y wye
M em Z zed, zee, izzard

I feel that "cue" has a better claim than "queue" to be the spelt name of
the letter Q, even if it has no Q in it: the WNewWorld etymology of "cue"
is that it was used in 16/17Century plays to indicate actors' entrances;
prob. abbr. of some Latin word, as Quando/when, or Qualis/in what manner.

Also see the Twisted Acrophonic and other alphabets in the "Silent P" thread.

......................................................................
Matthew "On Beyond Zebra!" Rabuzzi

[Jim Ward]

: Do you know how to spell the letters of the alphabet.

Big Bird on Sesame Street used to spell the alphabet as:

"ab cuh-def guh-jikl.." (I don't remember the rest).

[LEE RIZOR]

BC|>>Do you know how to spell the letters of the alphabet. I was told 'aitch'
BC|>>and then tried to find some of the others. I got dee, em, en, tee, vee &
BC|>>zed. Just out of curiosity mind - I can't think why it would be useful
BC|>>at all.
BC|>
BC| _Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary_ ("A Merriam Webster")
BC|has the following:

BC| a: ---, b: bee, c: cee, d: dee, e: ---, f: ef, g: gee,
BC| h: aitch, i: ---, j: jay, k: kay, l: el, m: em, n: en,
BC| o: ---, p: pee, q: cue, r: ar, s: ess, t: tee, u: ---,
BC| v: vee, w: double-u, x: ex, y: wye, z: zee or zed

BC| In our house the rules always were that any word was acceptable
BC|if it was an entry in whatever dictionary we agreed to use, except
BC|that it couldn't be capitalized and it couldn't contain a hyphen.

My Scrabble buddy and I did the same. "Sometimes cap" and "usually
cap" was okay, but not "cap".

BC|(That dictionary was always _The World Book Encyclopedia Dictionary_,
BC|"a Thorndike Barnhart Dictionary", because in the days when we used to
BC|play Scrabble that was the biggest dictionary we had. I see now that
BC|we couldn't have used "ef" because it's not in that dictionary.)

We used my Web3NI 16th ed.; it shows "pe", "de", etc. as variants, as
well.

---
* SLMR 2.1a * What do you mean, you formatted the cat?

[Francis Muir]

H Andrew Chuang writes:

John Lawler writes:

z /zi/ zee [US usage; elsewhere zed]

Well, in Hong Kong, it's "zized" (the most convoluted alphabet
pronunciation). ;-)

I once heard a distinguished Indian mathematician refer to integration
limits as "from zedro to infiNIGHTY". But we knew exactly what he meant.

Philomath

[Curtis Smith]

Simon Steward wrote:
>
> Do you know how to spell the letters of the alphabet. I was told 'aitch'

> and then tried to find some of the others.

---

I once knew an Englishman who pronounced H with a leading
aspiration, and always assumed that aitch was a shortened form
of an earlier haitch, as he pronounced it. Well anyway, here is
a chart of letter spellings which I assembled by looking in an
American dictionary; I may have missed some alternatives, but I looked
for obvious spellings (e.g., dee, dea, de, dey, di) and
couldn't find them for many letters. I could make up spellings
(e.g., dee), but I'm sure you could do that just as well.

Curtis Smith

The Webster's New World Dictionary of the American Language,
Second College Edition, (William Collins Publishers 1980), has
entries for the following spellings of letters:

a
b, bee
c, cee
d
e
f
g, gee
h, aitch
i
j
k
l
m, em
n, en
o
p
q
r
s, ess
t, tee
u
v, vee
w
x, ex
y, wye
z, zee, zed

[John Lawler]

Matthew Rabuzzi <rab...@patch.tandem.com> writes:
>Simon <sste...@bt-sys.bt.co.uk> writes:

>: Do you know how to spell the letters of the alphabet?

> E upside-down schwa

Well, in the lower-case version, OK.

But in the Upper-Case Version, it should clearly be

E upside-down existential quantifier

[Steve MacGregor]

W = "wubble-yoo"

--
---------------------------------------------------
There is not enough darkness in the entire universe
to extinguish the light of a single candle.
---------------------------------------------------

[Jitze Couperus]

In article <4p4i42$r...@thighmaster.admin.lsa.umich.edu>,

jla...@snoopy.ling.lsa.umich.edu (John Lawler) wrote:
>
> > E upside-down schwa
>
> Well, in the lower-case version, OK.
>
> But in the Upper-Case Version, it should clearly be
>
> E upside-down existential quantifier
>

Wouldn't that be "mirror-image" (or "left-to-right flipped") rather
than upside-down ? I hope so because the E looks just like E to me.
(The second of these is upside-down in case you couldn't tell...)

Jitze (Let's hear it For_All upside-down A's.)

[Ned Kelly]

H Andrew Chuang (Chu...@cris.com) wrote:
: In article <4ovk84$7...@thighmaster.admin.lsa.umich.edu>,
: John Lawler <jla...@snoopy.ling.lsa.umich.edu> wrote:

: > z /zi/ zee [US usage; elsewhere zed]

And don't forget Yanks who affect British, Aussie, etc. accents. We use zed
too. :) (Some of us also use the British spelling, like colour.)

--
Ned Kelly Lives!!!!!!
"That isn't a knife.... This is a KNIFE!" - Paul Hogan

The Navy: It's Not Just A Job..... It's $cientology Lite!

[John Lawler]

Jitze (Let's hear it For_All upside-down A's.) Couperus <coup...@cdc.com>
writes:
>jla...@umich.edu (John Lawler) writes:

>> > E upside-down schwa

>> Well, in the lower-case version, OK.

>> But in the Upper-Case Version, it should clearly be

>> E upside-down existential quantifier

>Wouldn't that be "mirror-image" (or "left-to-right flipped") rather
>than upside-down ? I hope so because the E looks just like E to me.
>(The second of these is upside-down in case you couldn't tell...)

Actually, no, since "upside-down" in the case of schwa means
exactly the same thing, and "upside-down e" is a common way
to describe schwa. I agree it's unclear for schwa, but that's
the convention. For "E", as you note, only the rotation
(or the vertical-axis mirror image) is relevant, and therefore
the only meaningful "upside-down" image available, since
the horizontal-axis mirror image is an identity, producing a
simpler symmetry group, and not coincidentally an unambiguous reference.

[Markus Laker]

Curtis Smith <cur...@atlcom.net> wrote:

> I once knew an Englishman who pronounced H with a leading

> aspiration....

It's not uncommon for English people to do this. It's not correct, but it's
not uncommon.

--
Markus Laker.

[Mark Wainwright]

coup...@cdc.com (Jitze Couperus) writes

> jla...@snoopy.ling.lsa.umich.edu (John Lawler) wrote:

>> E upside-down existential quantifier

> Wouldn't that be "mirror-image" (or "left-to-right flipped") rather
> than upside-down ? I hope so because the E looks just like E to me.

Unless you can think of a good reason why the E and A are turned in
different directions to make existential and universal quantifiers,
it's clearly turned upside-down, not flipped left-to-right.

Or are you claiming that an `upside-down' E would be flipped about a
horizontal line in the plane of the paper? Surely not. That would be
upside-down and back to front.

(Imagine a painting that had been wrongly hung. If the face was turned
to the wall, you'd say: `That's back to front!' If the trees grew
downwards, you'd say `It's upside-down!')

Mark Wainwright
--
========================================================================
http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/users/maw13/ ma...@harlequin.co.uk
========================================================================

[Anno Siegel]

In alt.usage.english article <4p24s6$n...@morrow.stanford.edu>,
Francis Muir <fra...@pangea.Stanford.EDU> wrote:

[...]

>I once heard a distinguished Indian mathematician refer to integration
>limits as "from zedro to infiNIGHTY". But we knew exactly what he meant.

Is "zedro" a typo or something I don't get?

Anno

[Lee Rudolph]

>>> E upside-down existential quantifier
>
>> Wouldn't that be "mirror-image" (or "left-to-right flipped") rather
>> than upside-down ? I hope so because the E looks just like E to me.
>
>Unless you can think of a good reason why the E and A are turned in
>different directions to make existential and universal quantifiers,
>it's clearly turned upside-down, not flipped left-to-right.

What it's clearly, is rotated 180 degrees around its center.
(The verb in "turned upside-down" correctly suggests this,
but I fear some people think "turn upside-down" is the same
as "flip top-to-bottom", which it ain't.)

The whole reason for introducing just those symbols (I am sure
without the slightest evidence) is that they didn't require new
type to be cast. The accident that E and A each have an axis
of symmetry (respectively horizontal and vertical) means, of
course, that the effect of the physical rotation is in each case
indistinguishable (to first order, and depending hugely on the
font) from an orientation-reversing (and therefore non-physical)
symmetry.

Mind your Ps and Qs, you little devils, you.

Lee Rudolph, who actually learned to set type about 35 years ago,
and who is not simply baiting John Lawler with "What it's clearly,
is..."--I say that kind of thing all the time, and the heck with
Haj Ross and his purty green eyes

[Douglas P. McNutt]

You guys are ALL umoq aqisdn!

Compliments of a previous poster from Australia!

-> From the USA. The only socialist country that refuses to admit it. <-

[Keith C. Ivey]

Chu...@cris.com (H Andrew Chuang) wrote:

>In article <4ovk84$7...@thighmaster.admin.lsa.umich.edu>,
>John Lawler <jla...@snoopy.ling.lsa.umich.edu> wrote:

>> z /zi/ zee [US usage; elsewhere zed]

>Well, in Hong Kong, it's "zized" (the most convoluted alphabet
>pronunciation). ;-)

Most of my dictionaries also list "izzard" as a dialectal name
for the letter, but I don't know where it's used.

Keith C. Ivey <kci...@cpcug.org> Washington, DC
Contributing Editor/Webmaster
The Editorial Eye <http://www.eei-alex.com/eye/>

[Matthew Rabuzzi]

Douglas P. McNutt <dmc...@macnauchtan.com> writes:
: You guys are ALL umoq aqisdn!

:
: Compliments of a previous poster from Australia!

No, I think it is you who are *upsibe bown*, whatever that means.

..........................................................
Mind your p's and q's
Matthew Rabuzzi

[Lee Jaap]

In article <ssteward-030...@simons-mac.jungle.bt.co.uk> sste...@bt-sys.bt.co.uk (Simon) writes:
|>
|>Do you know how to spell the letters of the alphabet. I was told 'aitch'

|>and then tried to find some of the others. I got dee, em, en, tee, vee &

|>zed. Just out of curiosity mind - I can't think why it would be useful

|>at all. If you know any others please let me know (with the source if
|>possible).

They come in handy for scrabble players and creators of crossword
puzzles.
--
J Lee Jaap <Jaa...@ASMSun.LaRC.NASA.Gov> +1 804/865-7093
employed by, not necessarily speaking for,
AS&M Inc, Hampton VA 23666-1340

[Steve Crook]

jaa...@asmobj.larc.nasa.gov (Lee Jaap) wrote:
>In article <ssteward-030...@simons-mac.jungle.bt.co.uk> sste...@bt-sys.bt.co.uk (Simon) writes:
>|>
>|>Do you know how to spell the letters of the alphabet. I was told 'aitch'
>|>and then tried to find some of the others. I got dee, em, en, tee, vee &
>|>zed. Just out of curiosity mind - I can't think why it would be useful
>|>at all. If you know any others please let me know (with the source if
>|>possible).
>
>They come in handy for scrabble players and creators of crossword
>puzzles.

As long as nobody spells or pronounces it 'Haitch'. I keep on telling
people there is no 'H' in 'H'.

BTW does anyone know the rest of the alphabet list that starts

A is for 'orses
B for mutton
C for yourself
D formation

Please send suggestions by e-mail as I don't check this group very often

Steve

[Markus Laker]

Steve Crook <st...@brainstorm.co.uk> wrote:

> BTW does anyone know the rest of the alphabet list that starts

> A is for 'orses
> B for mutton
> C for yourself
> D formation

> Please send suggestions by e-mail as I don't check this group very often

I've mailed Hugh Scott's recent contribution to Steve as requested.

--
Markus Laker.

[KJBlake]

In article <4q8138$1...@pub.news.uk.psi.net>, Steve Crook
<st...@brainstorm.co.uk> writes:

>As long as nobody spells or pronounces it 'Haitch'. I keep on telling
>people there is no 'H' in 'H'.

Sure there is. If you spell it "aitch," isn't there an "h" in it?

[meganda...@gmail.com]

not in IPA.

[Richard Chambers]

<meganda...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:6847b91c-6ba9-4ca8...@googlegroups.com...
> not in IPA.
===============================

At the very start of each alphabetic section of most dictionaries, you will
find that the letter a is spelt* "A" (with a capital), b is spelt "B" and so
on. The Chambers Dictionary (no relation to me) does not commit itself to
define a spelling for the plural. By contrast, the Oxford Encyclopedic
Dictionary tells us that the plural of "A" is "As" or "A's", the latter
incorporating an interesting use of the grocer's apostrophe. So you can tell
your oboist that you want him to play two As or two A's.

Both dictionaries define "tee" as "T", but neither dictionary lists "ess" as
"S". Surprising, because I have occasionally seen "ess" spelt that way.

NOTE. "spelt" is correctly spelt. The last time I used it, I was told by
some American contributors that my spelling was a bit fishy. Not at all.
It's in the Oxford as the past and past participle of spell, as an
alternative (which I have always used) to "spelled".

Richard Chambers Leeds UK
=======================================



---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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[charles]

In article <Aqqdndt91pn6gjrE...@brightview.co.uk>, Richard

Chambers <dick.c...@metercare.co.uk> wrote:

> <meganda...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:6847b91c-6ba9-4ca8...@googlegroups.com...
> > not in IPA.
> ===============================

> At the very start of each alphabetic section of most dictionaries, you
> will find that the letter a is spelt* "A" (with a capital), b is spelt
> "B" and so on. The Chambers Dictionary (no relation to me) does not
> commit itself to define a spelling for the plural. By contrast, the
> Oxford Encyclopedic Dictionary tells us that the plural of "A" is "As" or
> "A's", the latter incorporating an interesting use of the grocer's
> apostrophe. So you can tell your oboist that you want him to play two As
> or two A's.

That is surely the Oxford apostrophy.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

[musika]

What a catastrophy.

--
Ray
UK

[Richard Chambers]

"Richard Chambers" <dick.c...@metercare.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Aqqdndt91pn6gjrE...@brightview.co.uk...

>
>
> NOTE. "spelt" is correctly spelt. The last time I used it, I was told by
> some American contributors that my spelling was a bit fishy. Not at all.
> It's in the Oxford as the past and past participle of spell, as an
> alternative (which I have always used) to "spelled".

> =======================================

Correction. I now remember. In fact, I was told that my spelling was a bit
fishy when I used "smelt" as the past participle of smell. For the obvious
reason. But I defend myself on this count too. "Smelt" is in the Oxford, on
an equal footing with "smelled", as the past and past participle of "smell".
The fact that the criticism came from an American causes me to wonder if
American English also recognises the use of "smelt" as a past participle.

Richard Chambers Leeds UK.

[Richard Yates]

On Wed, 30 Aug 2017 21:26:13 +0100, "Richard Chambers"
<dick.c...@metercare.co.uk> wrote:

>
><meganda...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:6847b91c-6ba9-4ca8...@googlegroups.com...
>> not in IPA.
>===============================
>
>At the very start of each alphabetic section of most dictionaries, you will
>find that the letter a is spelt* "A" (with a capital), b is spelt "B" and so
>on. The Chambers Dictionary (no relation to me) does not commit itself to
>define a spelling for the plural. By contrast, the Oxford Encyclopedic
>Dictionary tells us that the plural of "A" is "As" or "A's", the latter
>incorporating an interesting use of the grocer's apostrophe. So you can tell
>your oboist that you want him to play two As or two A's.
>
>Both dictionaries define "tee" as "T", but neither dictionary lists "ess" as
>"S". Surprising, because I have occasionally seen "ess" spelt that way.
>
>NOTE. "spelt" is correctly spelt. The last time I used it, I was told by
>some American contributors that my spelling was a bit fishy.

To me it's grainy, not fishy.

[bill van]

In article <Aqqdndt91pn6gjrE...@brightview.co.uk>,
"Richard Chambers" <dick.c...@metercare.co.uk> wrote:
>

> Both dictionaries define "tee" as "T", but neither dictionary lists "ess" as
> "S". Surprising, because I have occasionally seen "ess" spelt that way.
>

The latest edition of the official Scrabble dictionary allows both "es"
and "ess".
--
bill

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Wednesday, August 30, 2017 at 7:07:33 PM UTC-4, Richard Chambers wrote:
> "Richard Chambers" <dick.c...@metercare.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:Aqqdndt91pn6gjrE...@brightview.co.uk...
> >
> >
> > NOTE. "spelt" is correctly spelt. The last time I used it, I was told by
> > some American contributors that my spelling was a bit fishy. Not at all.
> > It's in the Oxford as the past and past participle of spell, as an
> > alternative (which I have always used) to "spelled".
> > =======================================
>
> Correction. I now remember. In fact, I was told that my spelling was a bit
> fishy when I used "smelt" as the past participle of smell. For the obvious
> reason. But I defend myself on this count too. "Smelt" is in the Oxford, on
> an equal footing with "smelled", as the past and past participle of "smell".
> The fact that the criticism came from an American causes me to wonder if
> American English also recognises the use of "smelt" as a past participle.

It would "recognize" it from context, but it wouldn't use it. Besides it's a
kind of fish.

[Peter Moylan]

On 31/08/17 09:07, Richard Chambers wrote:
> "Richard Chambers" <dick.c...@metercare.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:Aqqdndt91pn6gjrE...@brightview.co.uk...
>>
>>
>> NOTE. "spelt" is correctly spelt. The last time I used it, I was told by
>> some American contributors that my spelling was a bit fishy. Not at all.
>> It's in the Oxford as the past and past participle of spell, as an
>> alternative (which I have always used) to "spelled".
>> =======================================
>
> Correction. I now remember. In fact, I was told that my spelling was a bit
> fishy when I used "smelt" as the past participle of smell. For the obvious
> reason. But I defend myself on this count too. "Smelt" is in the Oxford, on
> an equal footing with "smelled", as the past and past participle of "smell".
> The fact that the criticism came from an American causes me to wonder if
> American English also recognises the use of "smelt" as a past participle.

Surely it's a question of how you pronounce the word. I write spelt and
smelt and burnt and dreamt and so on because that's how I say those
words: with a short vowel and a clearly aspirated final 't'. But in AmE
the main vowel is long in all of those words, and they are said with a
non-aspirated final 'd'. That justifies a different spelling.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia

[Dingbat]

On Thursday, August 31, 2017 at 4:37:33 AM UTC+5:30, Richard Chambers wrote:
> "Richard Chambers" <dick.c...@metercare.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:Aqqdndt91pn6gjrE...@brightview.co.uk...
> >
> > NOTE. "spelt" is correctly spelt. The last time I used it, I was told by
> > some American contributors that my spelling was a bit fishy. Not at all.
> > It's in the Oxford as the past and past participle of spell, as an
> > alternative (which I have always used) to "spelled".
> > =======================================
>
> Correction. I now remember. In fact, I was told that my spelling was a bit
> fishy when I used "smelt" as the past participle of smell. For the obvious
> reason. But I defend myself on this count too. "Smelt" is in the Oxford, on
> an equal footing with "smelled", as the past and past participle of "smell".
> The fact that the criticism came from an American causes me to wonder if
> American English also recognises the use of "smelt" as a past participle.

Asterix comics use smelt as a pun on the fish. The fishmonger Unhygenix takes
umbrage at a customer who asks: Did you say "smelt"?

[GordonD]

Then there's the childish rhyme "You smelt it, you dealt it!" said under
circumstances it shouldn't be difficult to imagine.
--
Gordon Davie
Edinburgh, Scotland

[Peter T. Daniels]

Archaisms do tend to survive in things like nursery rhymes. We have that one.

[Dingbat]

On Monday, June 3, 1996 at 12:30:00 PM UTC+5:30, Simon wrote:
> Dear wordheads

>
> Do you know how to spell the letters of the alphabet. I was told 'aitch'
> and then tried to find some of the others. I got dee, em, en, tee, vee &
> zed. Just out of curiosity mind - I can't think why it would be useful
> at all. If you know any others please let me know (with the source if
> possible).

Methinks, "wyn" is more descriptive of the sound of 'w' than is "double u",
and more concise to boot. Should the letter have been named after its
grapheme rather than its sound as the "wyn" rune was? In German, 'a' is
named for its sound "ah"/ [A], not named by the German word for "ox" which
is where a's predecessor, the "alif" grapheme, came from.

> If you could post the answers to news (so that folks know when a letter
> has been done) and send me a copy via direct email that would be great.
>
> Thanks
> Simon Steward

[Robert Bannister]

On 31/8/17 11:49 pm, Dingbat wrote:
> On Monday, June 3, 1996 at 12:30:00 PM UTC+5:30, Simon wrote:
>> Dear wordheads
>>
>> Do you know how to spell the letters of the alphabet. I was told 'aitch'
>> and then tried to find some of the others. I got dee, em, en, tee, vee &
>> zed. Just out of curiosity mind - I can't think why it would be useful
>> at all. If you know any others please let me know (with the source if
>> possible).
>
> Methinks, "wyn" is more descriptive of the sound of 'w' than is "double u",
> and more concise to boot. Should the letter have been named after its
> grapheme rather than its sound as the "wyn" rune was? In German, 'a' is
> named for its sound "ah"/ [A], not named by the German word for "ox" which
> is where a's predecessor, the "alif" grapheme, came from.

And in German, W is "veh", which is logical, but in French it is "double
vé" although w is not always pronounced v.
--
Robert B. born England a long time ago;
Western Australia since 1972

[Jerry Friedman]

On Wednesday, August 30, 2017 at 1:03:13 PM UTC-6, meganda...@gmail.com wrote:
> not in IPA.

This was posted by Matthew Rabuzzi in a 1996 thread with the same title.

A ay N en
B bee O oh
C cee P pee
D dee Q cue
E upside-down schwa R ar
F ef, eff S es, ess
G gee T tee
H aitch U ewe, yew, you
I aye, eye V vee
J jay W double-you, double-u
K kay X ex
L el, ell Y wye
M em Z zed, zee, izzard

He mentioned "queue", and I've seen "pea" instead of "pee", as in

http://jeffe.cs.illinois.edu/teaching/373/notes/06-hashing.pdf#search=%27Sidney%20Harris%20Alphabet%20in%20alphabetical%27

That's based on a Sidney Harris cartoon that I can't find on line.

--
Jerry Friedman

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Friday, September 1, 2017 at 12:44:26 PM UTC-4, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> On Wednesday, August 30, 2017 at 1:03:13 PM UTC-6, meganda...@gmail.com wrote:

> > not in IPA.
>
> This was posted by Matthew Rabuzzi in a 1996 thread with the same title.

Perhaps because it is the same thread: June 4, 1996. Just scroll up. (What?
You don't have GG?)

[GordonD]

In the west of Scotland, J would be spelt 'jie'. In other places, H
would be 'itch'.

[Anders D. Nygaard]

I (also) associate to metallurgy.

/Anders, Denmark

[Anders D. Nygaard]

Not "E ee"?

/Anders, Denmark

[Peter T. Daniels]

That would be two upside-down shwas in a row ...

[GordonD]

Do two objects make a row or are they just adjacent to each other?

[Peter T. Daniels]

Depends ... were they having a dual?

Anyway "two in a row" is a standard expression for adjacent or successive things
for which additions might be expected. Don't you have that expression?

[GordonD]

We do have it but I've always wondered how valid it is. I wasn't having
a go at you, but your post gave me the opportunity to raise the point.

[Peter T. Daniels]

Is that why you missed the interthreadual pun?

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

On 2017-08-31 17:49:22 +0200, Dingbat <ranjit_...@yahoo.com> said:

> On Monday, June 3, 1996 at 12:30:00 PM UTC+5:30, Simon wrote:
>> Dear wordheads
>>
>> Do you know how to spell the letters of the alphabet. I was told 'aitch'
>> and then tried to find some of the others. I got dee, em, en, tee, vee &
>> zed. Just out of curiosity mind - I can't think why it would be useful
>> at all. If you know any others please let me know (with the source if
>> possible).
>
> Methinks,

The comma is wrong -- no comma should come after after "Methinks". If
you must use archaic words try to use them correctly.

> "wyn" is more descriptive of the sound of 'w' than is "double u",

"ha" (as in German) is more descriptive of the sound of h than "aitch"
is, but so what? French has given (approximately) opposite names to the
letters g and j from those in English: confusing for English learners
of French and vice versa, but again, so what? American and British
English give different names to the letter z, but again, so what?

> and more concise to boot. Should the letter have been named after its
> grapheme rather than its sound as the "wyn" rune was? In German, 'a' is
> named for its sound "ah"/ [A], not named by the German word for "ox" which
> is where a's predecessor, the "alif" grapheme, came from.
>
>> If you could post the answers to news (so that folks know when a letter
>> has been done) and send me a copy via direct email that would be great.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Simon Steward

--
athel

[Paul Carmichael]

El 05/09/17 a las 16:48, Athel Cornish-Bowden escribió:

> On 2017-08-31 17:49:22 +0200, Dingbat <ranjit_...@yahoo.com> said:
>
>> On Monday, June 3, 1996 at 12:30:00 PM UTC+5:30, Simon wrote:
>>> Dear wordheads
>>>
>>> Do you know how to spell the letters of the alphabet.  I was told 'aitch'
>>> and then tried to find some of the others.  I got dee, em, en, tee, vee &
>>> zed.   Just out of curiosity mind - I can't think why it would be useful
>>> at all.  If you know any others please let me know (with the source if
>>> possible).
>>
>> Methinks,
>
> The comma is wrong -- no comma should come after after "Methinks". If you must use archaic
> words try to use them correctly.
>
>>  "wyn" is more descriptive of the sound of 'w' than is "double u",
>
> "ha" (as in German) is more descriptive of the sound of h than "aitch" is, but so what?
> French has given (approximately) opposite names to the letters g and j from those in
> English: confusing for English learners of French and vice versa, but again, so what?
> American and British English give different names to the letter z, but again, so what?

Do you think Simon is still waiting after 21 years?


--
Paul.

https://paulc.es/
https://asetrad.org

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

I don't, no, but Ranjit apparently was, and I was commenting on his post.


--
athel

[wirele...@gmail.com]

you're mom

[Colonel Edmund J. Burke]

On 11/10/2017 10:23 PM, wirele...@gmail.com wrote:
> you're mom
>

I think it's your mom, sailor.

Do English schools teach grammar these daze?

[yvonne...@gmail.com]

I try to spell the letters without using the letter itself. For example, 1. eph = f. 2 and ecks = x. 3. wie = y.

[ramen...@gmail.com]

It's actually ummoq aqisdn.

UZBEK for "you are an aspirer of hope"

[RH Draney]

On 1/8/2018 12:23 AM, ramen...@gmail.com wrote:
> It's actually ummoq aqisdn.
>
> UZBEK for "you are an aspirer of hope"

That gives me "upsibe bowwn"....r

[Madrigal Gurneyhalt]

A classic example of not minding one's p's and q's in fact!

[Dingbat]

On Wednesday, June 5, 1996 at 12:30:00 PM UTC+5:30, Curtis Smith wrote:

> Simon Steward wrote:
> >
> > Do you know how to spell the letters of the alphabet. I was told 'aitch'
> > and then tried to find some of the others.
>

> ---
>
> I once knew an Englishman who pronounced H with a leading
> aspiration, and always assumed that aitch was a shortened form
> of an earlier haitch, as he pronounced it.

That seems a possibile explanation for how the letter's name came to be [hEtS] (hetch) in Indian English.

> Well anyway, here is
> a chart of letter spellings which I assembled by looking in an
> American dictionary; I may have missed some alternatives, but I looked
> for obvious spellings (e.g., dee, dea, de, dey, di) and
> couldn't find them for many letters. I could make up spellings
> (e.g., dee), but I'm sure you could do that just as well.
>
> Curtis Smith
>
> The Webster's New World Dictionary of the American Language,
> Second College Edition, (William Collins Publishers 1980), has
> entries for the following spellings of letters:
>
> a
> b, bee
> c, cee
> d
> e
> f
> g, gee
> h, aitch
> i
> j
> k
> l
> m, em
> n, en
> o
> p
> q
> r
> s, ess
> t, tee
> u
> v, vee
> w
> x, ex
> y, wye
> z, zee, zed

[michae...@moamagrammar.nsw.edu.au]

On Monday, June 3, 1996 at 5:00:00 PM UTC+10, Simon wrote:
> Dear wordheads

>
> Do you know how to spell the letters of the alphabet. I was told 'aitch'

> and then tried to find some of the others. I got dee, em, en, tee, vee &

> zed. Just out of curiosity mind - I can't think why it would be useful
> at all. If you know any others please let me know (with the source if
> possible).
>

> If you could post the answers to news (so that folks know when a letter
> has been done) and send me a copy via direct email that would be great.
>
> Thanks
> Simon Steward


--

<http://www.moamagrammar.nsw.edu.au>

Connect with us: <https://www.facebook.com/MoamaAGS/>
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or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached
files, our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments.
Any representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual
sender, and not necessarily those of Moama Anglican Grammar School.

[michae...@moamagrammar.nsw.edu.au]

On Monday, June 3, 1996 at 5:00:00 PM UTC+10, Simon wrote:
> Dear wordheads
>
> Do you know how to spell the letters of the alphabet. I was told 'aitch'
> and then tried to find some of the others. I got dee, em, en, tee, vee &
> zed. Just out of curiosity mind - I can't think why it would be useful
> at all. If you know any others please let me know (with the source if
> possible).
>
> If you could post the answers to news (so that folks know when a letter
> has been done) and send me a copy via direct email that would be great.
>
> Thanks
> Simon Steward

You can spell w with doubleu

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

On 2018-03-02 01:00:57 +0000, michae...@moamagrammar.nsw.edu.au said:

> On Monday, June 3, 1996 at 5:00:00 PM UTC+10, Simon wrote:
>> Dear wordheads
>>
>> Do you know how to spell the letters of the alphabet. I was told 'aitch'
>> and then tried to find some of the others. I got dee, em, en, tee, vee &
>> zed. Just out of curiosity mind - I can't think why it would be useful
>> at all. If you know any others please let me know (with the source if
>> possible).
>>
>> If you could post the answers to news (so that folks know when a letter
>> has been done) and send me a copy via direct email that would be great.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Simon Steward
>
> You can spell w with doubleu

Gosh. After waiting almost 22 years, Simon finally has a partial answer
(1/26th of an answer) to his question.

--
athel

[Peter Moylan]

The sad part is that Simon is no longer a participant in this newsgroup.
It looks as if he gave up waiting.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia

[Peter T. Daniels]

Did y'all call yourselves "The Wordheads" back then?

The thread had previously been lazarized on August 30, 2017.

[Madrigal Gurneyhalt]

Turned into a leper? How very odd!

[J. J. Lodder]

Au contraire, Sainted,

Jan

[nya...@ssbennettswood.catholic.edu.au]

On Monday, June 3, 1996 at 5:00:00 PM UTC+10, Simon wrote:
> Dear wordheads
>
> Do you know how to spell the letters of the alphabet. I was told 'aitch'
> and then tried to find some of the others. I got dee, em, en, tee, vee &
> zed. Just out of curiosity mind - I can't think why it would be useful
> at all. If you know any others please let me know (with the source if
> possible).
>
> If you could post the answers to news (so that folks know when a letter
> has been done) and send me a copy via direct email that would be great.
>
> Thanks
> Simon Steward

HMM.... It's not hard but it's not obvious either....ex? Idk
>Thanks
>From Grace AKA:Nya

[Kerr-Mudd,John]

On Wed, 02 May 2018 08:40:23 GMT, nya...@ssbennettswood.catholic.edu.au
wrote:

Welcome back 1996. 22 years of usenet fun to catch up on!

--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.

[Peter Moylan]

On 02/05/18 18:40, nya...@ssbennettswood.catholic.edu.au wrote:
>
> HMM.... It's not hard but it's not obvious either....ex? Idk
>> >Thanks
>>From Grace AKA:Nya

And she's not even a gmail user. (But still a Google Groups user, of
course.)

Was she a GMail user in 1996? Probably not.

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Wednesday, May 2, 2018 at 11:29:17 AM UTC-4, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 02/05/18 18:40, nya...@ssbennettswood.catholic.edu.au wrote:

> > HMM.... It's not hard but it's not obvious either....ex? Idk
> >> >Thanks
> >>From Grace AKA:Nya
>
> And she's not even a gmail user. (But still a Google Groups user, of
> course.)
>
> Was she a GMail user in 1996? Probably not.

What is your evidence that she uses Google Groups?

She is, however, Australian.

[snide...@gmail.com]

Um, headers? (CF "Show original")
(Granted, "Show activity" for her AUE presence just has 1 entry)
(Back when the world was young, "Show activity" included other groups)

>
> She is, however, Australian.

Well, her email address is.


/dps

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Wednesday, May 2, 2018 at 2:54:19 PM UTC-4, snide...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 2, 2018 at 8:37:45 AM UTC-7, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > On Wednesday, May 2, 2018 at 11:29:17 AM UTC-4, Peter Moylan wrote:
> > > On 02/05/18 18:40, nya...@ssbennettswood.catholic.edu.au wrote:
> >
> > > > HMM.... It's not hard but it's not obvious either....ex? Idk
> > > >> >Thanks
> > > >>From Grace AKA:Nya
> > >
> > > And she's not even a gmail user. (But still a Google Groups user, of
> > > course.)
> > >
> > > Was she a GMail user in 1996? Probably not.
> >
> > What is your evidence that she uses Google Groups?
>
> Um, headers? (CF "Show original")

That shows that something caused her to see a usenet message that happened
to be linked to the GG interface. It is not evidence that she uses GG.

[snide...@gmail.com]

On Wednesday, May 2, 2018 at 12:51:25 PM UTC-7, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 2, 2018 at 2:54:19 PM UTC-4, snide...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Wednesday, May 2, 2018 at 8:37:45 AM UTC-7, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, May 2, 2018 at 11:29:17 AM UTC-4, Peter Moylan wrote:
> > > > On 02/05/18 18:40, nya...@ssbennettswood.catholic.edu.au wrote:
> > >
> > > > > HMM.... It's not hard but it's not obvious either....ex? Idk
> > > > >> >Thanks
> > > > >>From Grace AKA:Nya
> > > >
> > > > And she's not even a gmail user. (But still a Google Groups user, of
> > > > course.)
> > > >
> > > > Was she a GMail user in 1996? Probably not.
> > >
> > > What is your evidence that she uses Google Groups?
> >
> > Um, headers? (CF "Show original")
>
> That shows that something caused her to see a usenet message that happened
> to be linked to the GG interface. It is not evidence that she uses GG.

Plainly, it shows that she has used GG at least once.
And since the message replied to is quoted,
either she did not use the mobile version or
understood that the quoting is needed.

It is more difficult to assess how often she has used GG
unless someone in this group has encountered in another group.

>
> > (Granted, "Show activity" for her AUE presence just has 1 entry)
> > (Back when the world was young, "Show activity" included other groups)
> >
> > >
> > > She is, however, Australian.
> >
> > Well, her email address is.

/dps

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Wednesday, May 2, 2018 at 5:03:36 PM UTC-4, snide...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 2, 2018 at 12:51:25 PM UTC-7, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > On Wednesday, May 2, 2018 at 2:54:19 PM UTC-4, snide...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, May 2, 2018 at 8:37:45 AM UTC-7, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > > > On Wednesday, May 2, 2018 at 11:29:17 AM UTC-4, Peter Moylan wrote:
> > > > > On 02/05/18 18:40, nya...@ssbennettswood.catholic.edu.au wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > > HMM.... It's not hard but it's not obvious either....ex? Idk
> > > > > >> >Thanks
> > > > > >>From Grace AKA:Nya
> > > > >
> > > > > And she's not even a gmail user. (But still a Google Groups user, of
> > > > > course.)
> > > > >
> > > > > Was she a GMail user in 1996? Probably not.
> > > >
> > > > What is your evidence that she uses Google Groups?
> > >
> > > Um, headers? (CF "Show original")
> >
> > That shows that something caused her to see a usenet message that happened
> > to be linked to the GG interface. It is not evidence that she uses GG.
>
> Plainly, it shows that she has used GG at least once.
> And since the message replied to is quoted,
> either she did not use the mobile version or
> understood that the quoting is needed.

Having something posted, all unawares, via GG does not make her a user of GG.

"I've been speaking prose all my life!"

[seth....@gmail.com]

My idea would be this:
Ayy
Bee
See
Dee
Eeh
Eff
Jee
Aitch
Eye
Jay
Kay
El
Em
En
Oh
Pee
Queue
Arr
Es
Tee
You
Vee
DoubleYou
Ekks
Why
Zee

hope that helps

[Lewis]

It doesn't, as most of those are wrong.

a, bee, cee, dee, e, ef (or eff), gee, aitch, i, jay, kay, el (sometimes
ell), em, en, o, pee, cue, ar, ess, tee, u, vee, double-u, ex, wy, and
zee/zed.


--
Friends help you move. Real friends help you move bodies.

[RH Draney]

Willard Espy offered the following tale:

"Hay, be seedy! He-effigy, hate-shy jaky yellow man, oh peek,
you are rusty, you've edible, you ex-wise he!"

....r

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Friday, January 25, 2019 at 6:21:04 AM UTC-5, RH Draney wrote:

> Willard Espy offered the following tale:
>
> "Hay, be seedy! He-effigy, hate-shy jaky yellow man, oh peek,
> you are rusty, you've edible, you ex-wise he!"

What a useful mnemonic that could(n't) be!

The squiggler doesn't like "jaky."

[pensive hamster]

I guess all AUE'ers would know of Duchamp's "readymade" postcard
of the Mona Lisa, titled L.H.O.O.Q.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L.H.O.O.Q.

'L.H.O.O.Q., is a pun; the letters pronounced in French sound like
"Elle a chaud au cul", "She is hot in the arse",[6] or "She has a hot ass";[7]
"avoir chaud au cul" is a vulgar expression implying that a woman has
sexual restlessness. In a late interview (Schwarz 203), Duchamp gives a
loose translation of L.H.O.O.Q. as "there is fire down below".

[J. J. Lodder]

RH Draney <dado...@cox.net> wrote:

> Willard Espy offered the following tale:
>
> "Hay, be seedy! He-effigy, hate-shy jaky yellow man, oh peek,
> you are rusty, you've edible, you ex-wise he!"

A Dutch language virtuoso, Hugo Brandt Corstius,
produced a sentence with successive words starting
with successive words starting with successive letters of the alphabet,
up to Q.
(No point in reproducing it, it needed a lot of explanation,
and it was of course rather forced, and it used the convenient
combinations KLM and NOP)

Like: (not really trying, just for the idea)
As bees climb dainty elderly flower girls,
hawks infest jaybird killzones, looking ....

What can you achieve in English?

Jan

[Peter T. Daniels]

The master of "recreational linguistics" is Dmitri Borgmann. Hw probably
has such things in one of his books, but he wouldn't stop halfway through.

[John Varela]

Not I, but:

An Austrian Army, awfully arrayed
Boldly by battery besieged Belgrade
etc.

"The Siege of Belgrade"
Alaric Alexander Watts

--
John Varela

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

The two lines that you quote are brilliant, but the rest of it -- your
"etc." -- isn't.

How do you like the ending?

> Why wish we warfare? Wherefore welcome were
> Xerxes, Ximenes, Xanthus, Xavier?
> Yield, yield, ye youths! ye yeomen, yield your yell!
> Zeus', Zarpater's, Zoroaster's zeal,
> Attracting all, arms against acts appeal!

>
> "The Siege of Belgrade"
> Alaric Alexander Watts


--

athel

[Katy Jennison]

Yes, I immediately thought of that one, but it has a different
successive letter for each line, not for each word. I'm not sure which
is more difficult.

--
Katy Jennison

[Lewis]

In message <gb664g...@mid.individual.net> Athel Cornish-Bowden <acor...@imm.cnrs.fr> wrote:
>> Why wish we warfare? Wherefore welcome were
>> Xerxes, Ximenes, Xanthus, Xavier?
>> Yield, yield, ye youths! ye yeomen, yield your yell!
>> Zeus', Zarpater's, Zoroaster's zeal,
>> Attracting all, arms against acts appeal!

Zarpater is a new one on me, and searching brings up this poem.

--
I went to a restaurant that serves "breakfast at any time". So I ordered French Toast during the Renaissance.

[J. J. Lodder]

Thanks, didn't know about that one.

BTW, Hugo Brand Corstius' masterpiece is a book titled:
Opperlandse taal- & letterkunde.
(public domain)

Jan

[J. J. Lodder]

I guess a plausible single sentence is far more difficult.
Hugo Brand Corstius also did 'forbidden vowels'.
Write a short story or longish poem in English
that contains only words with a single vowel.

Jan

--
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugo_Brandt_Corstius>

[Lewis]

Depends on what you consider plausible. I've seen a few of these over
the years.

A quick search found

A brownish cloud descends every Friday, growing, hovering impressively,
just keeling lightly, moving nimbly over populated quarters, returning
silently to unknown, violently wild xylogenic yttriferous zones.

Yttriferous is new to me, it refers to "containing yttrium"

It shouldn't be too hard to construct a sentence, even if you exclude
proper names.

--
Nothing gold can stay -- Robert Frost Stay gold -- Johnny Cade

[Katy Jennison]

On 27/01/2019 18:29, Lewis wrote:
> In message <gb664g...@mid.individual.net> Athel Cornish-Bowden <acor...@imm.cnrs.fr> wrote:
>>> Why wish we warfare? Wherefore welcome were
>>> Xerxes, Ximenes, Xanthus, Xavier?
>>> Yield, yield, ye youths! ye yeomen, yield your yell!
>>> Zeus', Zarpater's, Zoroaster's zeal,
>>> Attracting all, arms against acts appeal!
>
> Zarpater is a new one on me, and searching brings up this poem.
>

Unknown to me too, but I bet he'd turn out to be someone we know better
by some other name, such as Sarpedon or something.

--
Katy Jennison

[Peter Moylan]

On 28/01/19 08:13, J. J. Lodder wrote:

> I guess a plausible single sentence is far more difficult. Hugo Brand
> Corstius also did 'forbidden vowels'. Write a short story or longish
> poem in English that contains only words with a single vowel.

A famous example (of something slightly different) in French is La
Disparition, which is an entire novel that doesn't use the letter 'e'.

[Jerry Friedman]

On 1/27/19 6:48 AM, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> RH Draney <dado...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>> Willard Espy offered the following tale:
>>
>> "Hay, be seedy! He-effigy, hate-shy jaky yellow man, oh peek,
>> you are rusty, you've edible, you ex-wise he!"

And Big Bird offered /'&bk@'dEfgi'dZEk@lm@'n&pkw@r'stuvwIkxIz/

> A Dutch language virtuoso, Hugo Brandt Corstius,
> produced a sentence with successive words starting
> with successive words starting with successive letters of the alphabet,
> up to Q.
> (No point in reproducing it, it needed a lot of explanation,
> and it was of course rather forced, and it used the convenient
> combinations KLM and NOP)
>
> Like: (not really trying, just for the idea)
> As bees climb dainty elderly flower girls,
> hawks infest jaybird killzones, looking ....
>
> What can you achieve in English?

You might be interested in

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constrained_writing

--
Jerry Friedman

[Mark Brader]

Peter Moylan:

> A famous example (of something slightly different) in French is La
> Disparition, which is an entire novel that doesn't use the letter 'e'.

That was done earlier in English, of course.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto "But I do't have a '' key o my termial."
m...@vex.net -- Lynn Gold

[Peter Moylan]

On 28/01/19 13:56, Mark Brader wrote:
> Peter Moylan:

>> A famous example (of something slightly different) in French is La
>> Disparition, which is an entire novel that doesn't use the letter 'e'.
>
> That was done earlier in English, of course.

Thanks. For whatever reason, I had never heard of the English one.

[Lewis]

My favorite bit of constrained writing was a rewrite of Poe's The Raven
that was written so the word length matched the digits of π.

The original site that had this seems to be gone, so I've included the
entire text from my archive.

Poe, E.
Near a Raven

Midnights so dreary, tired and weary.
Silently pondering volumes extolling all by-now obsolete lore.
During my rather long nap - the weirdest tap!
An ominous vibrating sound disturbing my chamber's antedoor.
"This", I whispered quietly, "I ignore".

Perfectly, the intellect remembers: the ghostly fires, a glittering ember.
Inflamed by lightning's outbursts, windows cast penumbras upon this floor.
Sorrowful, as one mistreated, unhappy thoughts I heeded:
That inimitable lesson in elegance - Lenore -
Is delighting, exciting...nevermore.

Ominously, curtains parted (my serenity outsmarted),
And fear overcame my being - the fear of "forevermore".
Fearful foreboding abided, selfish sentiment confided,
As I said, "Methinks mysterious traveler knocks afore.
A man is visiting, of age threescore."

Taking little time, briskly addressing something: "Sir," (robustly)
"Tell what source originates clamorous noise afore?
Disturbing sleep unkindly, is it you a-tapping, so slyly?
Why, devil incarnate!--" Here completely unveiled I my antedoor--
Just darkness, I ascertained - nothing more.

While surrounded by darkness then, I persevered to clearly comprehend.
I perceived the weirdest dream...of everlasting "nevermores".
Quite, quite, quick nocturnal doubts fled - such relief! - as my intellect said,
(Desiring, imagining still) that perchance the apparition was uttering a whispered "Lenore".
This only, as evermore.

Silently, I reinforced, remaining anxious, quite scared, afraid,
While intrusive tap did then come thrice - O, so stronger than sounded afore.
"Surely" (said silently) "it was the banging, clanging window lattice."
Glancing out, I quaked, upset by horrors hereinbefore,
Perceiving: a "nevermore".

Completely disturbed, I said, "Utter, please, what prevails ahead.
Repose, relief, cessation, or but more dreary 'nevermores'?"
The bird intruded thence - O, irritation ever since! -
Then sat on Pallas' pallid bust, watching me (I sat not, therefore),
And stated "nevermores".

Bemused by raven's dissonance, my soul exclaimed, "I seek intelligence;
Explain thy purpose, or soon cease intoning forlorn 'nevermores'!"
"Nevermores", winged corvus proclaimed - thusly was a raven named?
Actually maintain a surname, upon Pluvious seashore?
I heard an oppressive "nevermore".

My sentiments extremely pained, to perceive an utterance so plain,
Most interested, mystified, a meaning I hoped for.
"Surely," said the raven's watcher, "separate discourse is wiser.
Therefore, liberation I'll obtain, retreating heretofore -
Eliminating all the 'nevermores' ".

Still, the detestable raven just remained, unmoving, on sculptured bust.
Always saying "never" (by a red chamber's door).
A poor, tender heartache maven - a sorrowful bird - a raven!
O, I wished thoroughly, forthwith, that he'd fly heretofore.
Still sitting, he recited "nevermores".

The raven's dirge induced alarm - "nevermore" quite wearisome.
I meditated: "Might its utterances summarize of a calamity before?"
O, a sadness was manifest - a sorrowful cry of unrest;
"O," I thought sincerely, "it's a melancholy great - furthermore,
Removing doubt, this explains 'nevermores' ".

Seizing just that moment to sit - closely, carefully, advancing beside it,
Sinking down, intrigued, where velvet cushion lay afore.
A creature, midnight-black, watched there - it studied my soul, unawares.
Wherefore, explanations my insight entreated for.
Silently, I pondered the "nevermores".

"Disentangle, nefarious bird! Disengage - I am disturbed!"
Intently its eye burned, raising the cry within my core.
"That delectable Lenore - whose velvet pillow this was, heretofore,
Departed thence, unsettling my consciousness therefore.
She's returning - that maiden - aye, nevermore."

Since, to me, that thought was madness, I renounced continuing sadness.
Continuing on, I soundly, adamantly forswore:
"Wretch," (addressing blackbird only) "fly swiftly - emancipate me!"
"Respite, respite, detestable raven - and discharge me, I implore!"
A ghostly answer of: "nevermore".

" 'Tis a prophet? Wraith? Strange devil? Or the ultimate evil?"
"Answer, tempter-sent creature!", I inquired, like before.
"Forlorn, though firmly undaunted, with 'nevermores' quite indoctrinated,
Is everything depressing, generating great sorrow evermore?
I am subdued!", I then swore.

In answer, the raven turned - relentless distress it spurned.
"Comfort, surcease, quiet, silence!" - pleaded I for.
"Will my (abusive raven!) sorrows persist unabated?
Nevermore Lenore respondeth?", adamantly I encored.
The appeal was ignored.

"O, satanic inferno's denizen -- go!", I said boldly, standing then.
"Take henceforth loathsome "nevermores" - O, to an ugly Plutonian shore!
Let nary one expression, O bird, remain still here, replacing mirth.
Promptly leave and retreat!", I resolutely swore.
Blackbird's riposte: "nevermore".

So he sitteth, observing always, perching ominously on these doorways.
Squatting on the stony bust so untroubled, O therefore.
Suffering stark raven's conversings, so I am condemned, subserving,
To a nightmare cursed, containing miseries galore.
Thus henceforth, I'll rise (from a darkness, a grave) -- nevermore!

-- Original: E. Poe
-- Redone by measuring circles.

There is a much longer text written using the π constraint, but this is
the best.

If you memorize it, you will have the first 740 digits of π.

--
This is our music from the bachelor's den, the sound of loneliness
turned up to ten. A harsh soundtrack from a stagnant waterbed and it
sounds just like this. This is the sound of someone losing the plot
making out that they're OK when they're not. You're gonna like it, but
not a lot. And the chorus goes like this...

[Jerry Friedman]

[round off]

Good God. And I mean that in the most atheistic sense.

Apparently "by-now" is a 2 and 3, not a 5.

> There is a much longer text written using the π constraint, but this is
> the best.
>
> If you memorize it, you will have the first 740 digits of π.

Not starting right away.

--
Jerry Friedman

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Sunday, January 27, 2019 at 9:21:25 PM UTC-5, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 28/01/19 08:13, J. J. Lodder wrote:

> > I guess a plausible single sentence is far more difficult. Hugo Brand
> > Corstius also did 'forbidden vowels'. Write a short story or longish
> > poem in English that contains only words with a single vowel.
>
> A famous example (of something slightly different) in French is La
> Disparition, which is an entire novel that doesn't use the letter 'e'.

The English translation, by a Perec fanatic, is called *A Void*.

Passages that disuse specific letters are called lipograms. An entire
progressively lipogramatic novel is *Ella Minnow Pea* by Mark Dunn.

https://books.google.com/books/about/Ella_Minnow_Pea.html?id=XUjKWjxUn84C