Horny-handed sons...
LFS
I'd always heard "soil" but have just read an article by a respected
business journalist which uses "toil". The aue archives reveal that that
Mr Wolff used "soil" in a post in 2004 while back in 1997 Mr Goggin used
the "toil" form. Google suggests that "toil" is more common than "soil"
but I haven't been able to find the source of the phrase.
Comments?
--
Laura
(emulate St. George for email)
Roland Hutchinson
If you're taking a vote (we seem to be obsessing with that sort of thing
over here just now), put me down firmly in the "toil" column.
I would have to be "...of _the_ soil" if it were soil, to my ear.
--
Roland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food.
NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to
remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it.
LFS
> LFS wrote:
>
>> ..of what? Toil? Or soil?
>>
>> I'd always heard "soil" but have just read an article by a respected
>> business journalist which uses "toil". The aue archives reveal that that
>> Mr Wolff used "soil" in a post in 2004 while back in 1997 Mr Goggin used
>> the "toil" form. Google suggests that "toil" is more common than "soil"
>> but I haven't been able to find the source of the phrase.
>>
>> Comments?
>
> If you're taking a vote (we seem to be obsessing with that sort of thing
> over here just now), put me down firmly in the "toil" column.
>
> I would have to be "...of _the_ soil" if it were soil, to my ear.
>
Yes, I should have been more accurate: the version I'm familiar with
includes "the", although there seem to be quite a few examples on Google
that don't.
I'm rather more interested in finding out where the phrase originated
and how it might have drifted than in votes.
HVS
"Toil", according to Oxford quotations.
(Attributed to Denis Kearney (1847-1907) in a c.1878 speech in San
Francisco. No, I don't have the foggiest idea who Denis Kearney
was.)
--
Cheers, Harvey
CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed
LFS
He seems to have been a Californian politician who hated the Chinese.
Mike M
> LFS wrote:
> > ..of what? Toil? Or soil?
>
> > I'd always heard "soil" but have just read an article by a respected
> > business journalist which uses "toil". The aue archives reveal that that
> > Mr Wolff used "soil" in a post in 2004 while back in 1997 Mr Goggin used
> > the "toil" form. Google suggests that "toil" is more common than "soil"
> > but I haven't been able to find the source of the phrase.
>
> > Comments?
>
> If you're taking a vote (we seem to be obsessing with that sort of thing
> over here just now), put me down firmly in the "toil" column.
>
> I would have to be "...of _the_ soil" if it were soil, to my ear.
>
I've only ever heard it in the singular "(He was a) horny-handed son
of the soil".
Mike M
HVS
Ah, so.
(FWIW, the quotation -- otherwise completely without context -- is
in my Oxford DOQ, 1941 ed.)
Donna Richoux
I never heard of it at all. "Horny-handed sons of toil" turns up in a
1919 book at Bartleby, without attribution. So I moved on to Google
Books; there the Yale Book of Quotations gives it to Robert (long name)
Cecil, Marquis of Salisbury, British prime minister, in the Quarterly
Review, 1873.
http://books.google.com/books?id=w5-GR-qtgXsC&pg=PA662&dq=%22horny-hande
d+sons+of+toil%22&as_brr=3&sig=oe-zhlkAgzbWk2nToKfYiiu_3tY
--
Best -- Donna Richoux
Barbara Bailey
@mid.individual.net:
"Toil" seems to be more common on a Google book search; it has an entry for
_Brewer's Famous Quotations_ which attributes "horny-handed sons of toil"
to the third Marquess of Salisbury in _The Quarterly Review_ of October
1873. It also cites American poet J.R.Lowell as using "the horny hands of
toil" in the poem "A Glance Behind The Curtain", 1843.
Most of the hits on "soil" are really "horny-handed sons of *the* soil."
Wood Avens
It has to be "sons of toil". Otherwise it wouldn't Spoonerise to
"tons of soil".
--
Katy Jennison
spamtrap: remove the first two letters after the @
Mike Lyle
In a book involving the Empress of Blandings--/Heavy Weather/?-- Gally
says to a muck-plastered Lord Tilbury, (from my defective memory)
"...you look like one of those 'sons of toil buried by tons of soil' I
once read about in a newspaper headline."
I, too, would expect the definite article with "son of the soil". I
think "soil" probably represents the older version, as it's not far from
a Greek original. OED gives "1871 FREEMAN Norm. Conq. (1876) IV. 55 The
foreign spoiler..insensibly changed into the Son of the soil, into an
Englishman." Note that there it means a native, rather than a farm
worker.
--
Mike.
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
Mark Brader
--
Mark Brader "I cannot reply in French, but I will
Toronto type English very slowly and loudly."
m...@vex.net --Lars Eighner
Ian Noble
Give that one of the Revernd Spooner's oft-quoted manglings is "Noble
Tons of Soil", I'd suggest the former as more likely.
Cheers - Ian
Ian Noble
<fr...@dropthis.clara.co.uk> wrote:
>Give that one of the Revernd Spooner's
Ugh. Post in haste, repent at leisure. Spel chequers FTW.
Cheers - Ian
Richard Maurer
I never heard of it at all. "Horny-handed sons of toil"
turns up in a 1919 book at Bartleby, without attribution.
So I moved on to Google Books; there the Yale Book
of Quotations gives it to Robert (long name) Cecil,
Marquis of Salisbury, British prime minister,
in the Quarterly Review, 1873.
Maybe it is a revival.
It appears in a 1922 translation by W. C. Firebaugh
of _The Satyricon_ by the ancient Roman
Gaius Petronius Arbiter.
Horny-handed sons of toil are born under Capricorn.
Bartenders and pumpkin-heads are born under
the Water-Carrier.
Maybe the same English was used in an earlier translation
in the mid 1800s. Our Latin readers might tell us if that
is a literal translation.
Project Gutenberg
Title: The Satyricon, Vol. 2 (The Dinner of Trimalchio)
Complete and unexpurgated translation by W. C. Firebaugh,
Chapter The Thirty-Ninth.
www.gutenberg.org/files/5219/5219.txt
CDB
Looks more as if a familiar phrase was used by the translator. The
original I found is "in capricorno aerumnosi, quibus prae mala sua
cornua nascuntur;". "Sons of toil" would cover "aerumnosi", from
"aerumna", hard labour. The rest is funny stuff, and I suspect
Petronius was having a laugh about something: "before whom [go] their
wicked horns, are born"? I predict that a better person than I will
come along soon and explain the phrase, which is near the end of
chapter 39 at the URL below.
http://www.thelatinlibrary.com/petronius1.html
Mike Page
Dictionary of Phrase and Fable that seems to say the toil form was
coined by Lord Salisbury (1830-1903), and a quotation that may be
earlier from 'Notes and Queries'.
--
Mike Page
Google me at port.ac.uk if you need to send an email.
CDB
> Richard Maurer wrote:
[Satyricon]
>> Horny-handed sons of toil are born under Capricorn. [...]
> "in capricorno aerumnosi, quibus prae mala sua cornua nascuntur;".
> "before whom [go] their wicked horns, are born"?
>I predict that a better person than
> I will come along soon and explain the phrase, [...]
I am not him whom ye seek, but I've been thinking about the word-order
around "prae", which really doesn't let it govern "quibus". I suppose
if "mala" is a singular noun meaning "jawbone" instead of a plural
adjective meaning "bad", the phrase could be "to whom before their jaw
[come] horns": whose horns come before their jaw.
The problem with the verb "nascuntur" is that it pretty well has to go
with the subject "aerumnosi", so it can't be "horns are born". And
why "mala" in the singular? The only relevant example in my
dictionary is plural. Alternatively, if "prae" is an adverb, "to whom
first [come] their wicked horns".
Anyway, look, no hands.
Evan Kirshenbaum
Without the "Horny-handed", I see "sons of toil" back to 1814:
If such they be--God help the while!
Where send the peaceful sons of toil,
Quoted in review of _The Lay of the Scottish Fiddle_, 1814,
in _Quarterly Review_, January, 1814
(Interesting rhyme there.)
Oh, wait. With a long "s":
Look back on ev'ry deathless deed
For which your Sires recorded stand;
To Battle let your Nobles lead
The sons of Toil, a hardy band;
The sword on each rough Peasant's thigh be worn,
And Wars green wreaths the Shepherd's front adorn.
"The Genius of Britain", _The Monthly Catalogue_,
December, 1756
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |"You can't prove it *isn't* so!" is
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |as good as Q.E.D. in folk logic--as
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |though it were necessary to submit
|a piece of the moon to chemical
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com |analysis before you could be sure
(650)857-7572 |that it was not made of green
|cheese.
http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ | Bergen Evans
Mike Lyle
> Richard Maurer wrote:
>> Project Gutenberg
>> Title: The Satyricon, Vol. 2 (The Dinner of Trimalchio)
>> Complete and unexpurgated translation by W. C. Firebaugh,
>> Chapter The Thirty-Ninth.
>> www.gutenberg.org/files/5219/5219.txt
>
> Looks more as if a familiar phrase was used by the translator. The
> original I found is "in capricorno aerumnosi, quibus prae mala sua
> cornua nascuntur;". "Sons of toil" would cover "aerumnosi", from
> "aerumna", hard labour. The rest is funny stuff, and I suspect
> Petronius was having a laugh about something: "before whom [go] their
> wicked horns, are born"? I predict that a better person than I will
> come along soon and explain the phrase, which is near the end of
> chapter 39 at the URL below.
>
> http://www.thelatinlibrary.com/petronius1.html
We already knew me for a man no better, but in most respects worse, than
CDB; but in any case if there's a gag in there I don't get it. Petronius
was fond of the irregular accusative after /prae/, but that doesn't help
me to understand what he's saying about these unlucky drudges. We can
presumably take /cornu/ as emblematic of goatish sexuality, of course.
(Though the word has many meanings and associations.)
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
wrote:
>Wankers, then? :-)
Aren't they the "hairy-handed"?
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
John Dean
Ox Dic of Quot has Salisbury in the Quarterly Review of September 1873 and a
note that it was "later popularised in the US by Denis Kearney". But it also
directs the reader to James Russell Lowell in 1844 who wrote "Blessed are
the horny hands of toil!".
I've always heard "horny handed sons of toil" but I can see how the
variations might arise.
--
John Dean
Oxford
John Dean
OED's earliest is 1873:
" 1873 Q. Rev. CXXXV. 543 The peculiar virtues of the horny-handed sons of
toil received a severe shock in 1848, and finally collapsed in 1871. "
Kearney was an Irish immigrant to the USA who disapproved of Chinese
immigrants to the same place:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denis_Kearney
--
John Dean
Oxford
K. Edgcombe
Mike Page <mike...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>
>'the soil' for me. But I see google books has an entry from the Oxford
>Dictionary of Phrase and Fable that seems to say the toil form was
>coined by Lord Salisbury (1830-1903), and a quotation that may be
>earlier from 'Notes and Queries'.
Interesting. I have always heard "toil" and would have assumed the
"soil" version - which I'd never heard until now - to be a simple error.
But evidently, if it is, it's quite widespread.
Katy
LFS
The more I think about it, the odder the toil version seems to me. How
can you have a son of toil? Things grow in soil, after all.
K. Edgcombe
LFS <la...@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> wrote:
>K. Edgcombe wrote:
>>
>> Interesting. I have always heard "toil" and would have assumed the
>> "soil" version - which I'd never heard until now - to be a simple error.
>> But evidently, if it is, it's quite widespread.
>>
>
>The more I think about it, the odder the toil version seems to me. How
>can you have a son of toil? Things grow in soil, after all.
I agree that you can have a son of the soil (I mean. not you personally....);
but "horny-handed" has always gone with "toil", for me. And I read it as "born
to labour" as in "born to trouble as the sparks fly upward".
Katy
Amethyst Deceiver
la...@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk says...
How can you have a mother of invention?
I've always heard "sons of toil". It's the toil that makes them horny-
handed - all that digging or hefting or chopping or whatever.
--
Linz
Wet Yorks via Cambridge, York, London and Watford
My accent may vary
Roland Hutchinson
Metonymy, innit. (If yer dad were a laborer, you are son of toil.)
Or maybe metaphor. (If you are a worker, your wages serve in place of the
patrimony that makes life comfortable for the idle.)
--
Roland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food.
NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to
remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it.
R H Draney
Probably influenced by the spoonerism of the original (1140 Google hits for
"tons of soil" +spooner)....r
--
What good is being an executive if you never get to execute anyone?
Evan Kirshenbaum
> In article <6apsncF...@mid.individual.net>,
> la...@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk says...
>> The more I think about it, the odder the toil version seems to
>> me. How can you have a son of toil? Things grow in soil, after all.
>
> How can you have a mother of invention?
> I've always heard "sons of toil". It's the toil that makes them
> horny- handed - all that digging or hefting or chopping or whatever.
"Sons of toil" appears to pre-date "horny-handed". I see
One nation, horny-handed and strong hearted
_Punch_, 1850
but almost a century earlier:
To Battle let your Nobles lead
The sons of Toil, a hardy band;
The sword on each rough Peasant's thigh be worn,
And Wars green wreaths the Shepherd's front adorn.
_Monthly Catalogue_, December, 1756
I first see "horny-handed sons of toil" in 1877, but "hard-handed sons
of toil" shows up in 1859. ("Hard-handed sons of labour" shows up in
1858.) "Hard-handed" itself shows up in Shakespeare:
Hard-handed men that work in Athens here,
Which never labor'd in their minds till now,
_A Midsummer Night's Dream_, V.i.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |If we have to re-invent the wheel,
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |can we at least make it round this
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |time?
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com
(650)857-7572
CDB
> CDB wrote:
>> Richard Maurer wrote:
[...]
>>> Project Gutenberg
>>> Title: The Satyricon, Vol. 2 (The Dinner of Trimalchio)
>>> Complete and unexpurgated translation by W. C. Firebaugh,
>>> Chapter The Thirty-Ninth.
>>> www.gutenberg.org/files/5219/5219.txt
>> Looks more as if a familiar phrase was used by the translator. The
>> original I found is "in capricorno aerumnosi, quibus prae mala sua
>> cornua nascuntur;". "Sons of toil" would cover "aerumnosi", from
>> "aerumna", hard labour. The rest is funny stuff, and I suspect
>> Petronius was having a laugh about something: "before whom [go]
>> their wicked horns, are born"? I predict that a better person
>> than I will come along soon and explain the phrase, which is near
>> the end of chapter 39 at the URL below.
>> http://www.thelatinlibrary.com/petronius1.html
> We already knew me for a man no better, but in most respects worse,
> than CDB; but in any case if there's a gag in there I don't get it.
I can do anything worser than you. I don't get it either, but the
text seems full of arch references, and I supposed that this was
another such.
> Petronius was fond of the irregular accusative after /prae/,
Was he, damn him. That wasn't in my dictionary. Time for a new one,
maybe. Even so, what does that make "quibus" relate to? I'm
beginning to think "prae" may indeed be an adverb (that's in even my
dictionary). To whom beforehand evil horns. Whose ill-omened horns
precede them.
> but that doesn't help me to understand what he's saying about these
> unlucky drudges. We can presumably take /cornu/ as emblematic of
> goatish sexuality, of course. (Though the word has many meanings
> and associations.)
Wiki (shudder) says that horns as a sign of cuckoldry date back to the
Roman Empire. Hard luck, as you say, but somebody must have thought
there was a connection with the noun. Maybe the labourer's wife was
the butt of travelling salesman jokes in those days , or maybe he
means someone in particular (an Agricola? a Servius? some
fellow-aristocrat with a reputation for hard work?).
Another translation has "under Capricorn, poor helpless rascals, to
whom yet Nature intended horns to defend themselves". No labour at
all. I noticed as well that, a little earlier in the feast (ch. 35),
when a zodiacal serving-dish was brought in, the item on Capricorn was
a lobster. So maybe the only sure thing here is that the English
phrase didn't originate with Petronius.
Robert Lieblich
I guess you have another thing coming, Katy.
--
Bob Lieblich, AmEclectic
Thinging deep things
LaReina del Perros
I think we're honing in on a definitive answer.
Barbara Bailey
news:t5ah44944402gc1ul...@4ax.com:
Arrgh! Please, you are *homing* in on a definitive answer. Not "honing" --
that means to sharpen a blade or to develop, improve, or polish, as a
presentation or a speech. I know that the latest American Heritage
dictionary lists the verb phrase "hone in on," but they are the only ones I
could fine that do so, and they are notoriously quick to list incorrect
usages just because they're common.
Skitt
> LaReina del Perros wrote:
>> Robert Lieblich wrote:
>>> "K. Edgcombe" wrote:
>>>> Mike Page wrote:
>>>>> 'the soil' for me. But I see google books has an entry from the
>>>>> Oxford Dictionary of Phrase and Fable that seems to say the toil
>>>>> form was coined by Lord Salisbury (1830-1903), and a quotation
>>>>> that may be earlier from 'Notes and Queries'.
>>>>
>>>> Interesting. I have always heard "toil" and would have assumed the
>>>> "soil" version - which I'd never heard until now - to be a simple
>>>> error. But evidently, if it is, it's quite widespread.
>>>
>>> I guess you have another thing coming, Katy.
>>
>> I think we're honing in on a definitive answer.
>
> Arrgh! Please, you are *homing* in on a definitive answer. Not
> "honing" -- that means to sharpen a blade or to develop, improve, or
> polish, as a presentation or a speech. I know that the latest
> American Heritage dictionary lists the verb phrase "hone in on," but
> they are the only ones I could fine that do so, and they are
> notoriously quick to list incorrect usages just because they're
> common.
Methinks, that was all on porpoise, starting with the "another thing
coming".
--
Skitt (AmE)
Barbara Bailey
news:JaadnYglxryfL9XV...@comcast.com:
Probably. But my wrong-word-tolerance was all used up after a day of
reading things elsewhere that were filled with "honing in on"s and "free
reign"s and "wreckless"s and "alterior motive"s -- stuff that supposedly
had been edited by someone getting paid for the job, and I just snapped.
I think I need some ice cream...
tony cooper
I think Barbara didn't bored the boat on time.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
LaReina del Perros
Bare with her. She's had a hard day.
tony cooper
A long daze knight?
Mike Lyle
That'd be Mark Thatcher (except he's a bart not a k: but, hey! this is
pun territory).
CDB
> "Skitt" <ski...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> Barbara Bailey wrote:
>>> LaReina del Perros wrote:
>>>> Robert Lieblich wrote:
>>>>> I guess you have another thing coming, Katy.
>>>> I think we're honing in on a definitive answer.
>>> Arrgh! Please, you are *homing* in on a definitive answer. Not
>>> "honing" -- that means to sharpen a blade or to develop, improve,
>>> or polish, as a presentation or a speech. I know that the latest
>>> American Heritage dictionary lists the verb phrase "hone in on,"
>>> but *they are the only ones I could fine that do so*, (1) and they
>>> are
>>> notoriously quick to list incorrect usages just because they're
>>> common.
>> Methinks, that was all on porpoise, starting with the "another
>> thing coming".
> Probably. But my wrong-word-tolerance was all used up after a day of
> reading things elsewhere that were filled with "honing in on"s and
> "free reign"s and "wreckless"s and "alterior motive"s -- stuff that
> supposedly had been edited by someone getting paid for the job, and
> I just snapped.
> I think I need some ice cream...
(1) Ever so there. You'll feel better after you've amearsed the AHD.
(my bold)
Robin Bignall
He got his just deserts.
--
Robin
(BrE)
Herts, England
Athel Cornish-Bowden
> [ ... ]
> (Attributed to Denis Kearney (1847-1907) in a c.1878 speech in San
> Francisco. No, I don't have the foggiest idea who Denis Kearney was.)
>>
>
> He seems to have been a Californian politician who hated the Chinese.
I was going to say that he had a street in San Francisco named after
him (where one of my daughters once lived), but Wikipedia says that
that was a different person, called Kearny.
--
athel
Paul Wolff
>..of what? Toil? Or soil?
>
>I'd always heard "soil" but have just read an article by a respected
>business journalist which uses "toil". The aue archives reveal that
>that Mr Wolff used "soil" in a post in 2004 while back in 1997 Mr
>Goggin used the "toil" form. Google suggests that "toil" is more common
>than "soil" but I haven't been able to find the source of the phrase.
>
>Comments?
1 I'm reading this four days late.
2 What I wrote in 2004 was "As a lad, in Berkshire, I noticed
(strongly enough to remember it to this day - and their graves are thick
with weeds now) local horny-handed-sons-of-the-soil types speaking ..."
and I detect an 'earth to earth' word association which I suspect was
more likely accident than planned.
--
Paul
tomh...@mweb.co.za
> ..of what? Toil? Or soil?
>
> I'd always heard "soil" but have just read an article by a respected
> business journalist which uses "toil". The aue archives reveal that that
> Mr Wolff used "soil" in a post in 2004 while back in 1997 Mr Goggin used
> the "toil" form. Google suggests that "toil" is more common than "soil"
> but I haven't been able to find the source of the phrase.
>
> Comments?
> Laura
> (emulate St. George for email)
CDB
soiled too, of course.
John Varela
--
John Varela
tomh...@mweb.co.za
When I was growing up, as the son of a farmer in England, 50 years ago, people commonly referred to ’toiling in the fields’
J. J. Lodder
Our new South African friend is reading it twelve years late,
Jan
bil...@shaw.ca
"Double, double toil and trouble" comes to mind for the noun usage.
bill
RH Draney
("Toil" is the Zeppo of that set)....r
Mack A. Damia
finest hour."
tomh...@mweb.co.za
You might well have considered my father to be a horny-handed-son-of-the-soil type. A dairy farmer with a strong Wiltshire accent...
J. J. Lodder
> On Thursday, January 9, 2020 at 11:38:20 PM UTC+2, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> > Paul Wolff <boun...@two.wolff.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> > > LFS <la...@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> wrote
> > > >..of what? Toil? Or soil?
> > > >
> > > >I'd always heard "soil" but have just read an article by a respected
> > > >business journalist which uses "toil". The aue archives reveal that
> > > >that Mr Wolff used "soil" in a post in 2004 while back in 1997 Mr
> > > >Goggin used the "toil" form. Google suggests that "toil" is more common
> > > >than "soil" but I haven't been able to find the source of the phrase.
> > > >
> > > >Comments?
> > >
> > > 1 I'm reading this four days late.
> > >
> > > 2 What I wrote in 2004 was "As a lad, in Berkshire, I noticed
> > > (strongly enough to remember it to this day - and their graves are thick
> > > with weeds now) local horny-handed-sons-of-the-soil types speaking ..."
> > > and I detect an 'earth to earth' word association which I suspect was
> > > more likely accident than planned.
> >
> > What's four days in a lifetime?
> > Our new South African friend is reading it twelve years late,
> >
> > Jan
>
> What on earth (or toil) have I stumbled in to?
why didn't realise that he stubmled into a real usenet discussion
that was held twelve years ago.
But there is hope for you, for at least you look for replies.
(for most google groupers it is just a drive-by shot,
and they are never seen again)
What you can do about it is subscribe to alt.usage.english
and follow the -current- discussions.
(hint: it helps to get a real newsclient and a real newsserver)
You are no doubt welcome, if you have something to contribute,
Jan
> You might well have considered my father to be a horny-handed-son-of-the-soil
> type. A dairy farmer with a strong Wiltshire accent...
wrap your lines to a decent length, 72 chacters for example
instead of letting others do it for you.)
Kerr-Mudd,John
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
Kerr-Mudd,John
toil for all" picture? (my googlefu is poor today).
J. J. Lodder
with the bankers on top recently,
Jan
Peter Moylan
>> What on earth (or toil) have I stumbled in to?
>
> Nothing to worry about. You are just a clueless google grouper why
> didn't realise that he stubmled into a real usenet discussion that
> was held twelve years ago.
>
> But there is hope for you, for at least you look for replies. (for
> most google groupers it is just a drive-by shot, and they are never
> seen again)
annoyed by the drive-by posters who respond to a twenty-year-old thread
and then never appear again. But someone who DOES appear again is a lot
more respectable, and might even be talked into using a proper Usenet
client rather than GoogleCrap.
> (another hint: you will be received more friendly if you get google
> to wrap your lines to a decent length, 72 chacters for example
> instead of letting others do it for you.)
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Peter Young
We have a pub of that name, and with a similar sign, in Cheltenham.
Peter.
--
Peter Young, (BrE, RP), Consultant Anaesthetist, 1975-2004.
(US equivalent: Certified Anesthesiologist) (AUE Hg)
Cheltenham and Gloucester, UK. Now happily retired.
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk
Jerry Friedman
--
Jerry Friedman
Anders D. Nygaard
to spell out in a public forum like this).
/Anders, Denmark.
Anders D. Nygaard
> On Thursday, January 9, 2020 at 4:56:20 PM UTC-7, RH Draney wrote:
>>
>> ("Toil" is the Zeppo of that set)....r
>
> That marks the best analogy I've seen in a while.
/Anders, Denmark.
Anders D. Nygaard
> [...] you will be received more friendly if [...]
ObAUE: I have a strong urge to add another -ly there,
but can see that it would look terrible. Which is correct?
/Anders, Denmark.
Katy Jennison
colloquially and humorously one might say (at least, I might say) 'more
friendlily'.
--
Katy Jennison
Peter Young
bil...@shaw.ca
> On 10 Jan 2020 "Anders D. Nygaard" <news2...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Den 10-01-2020 kl. 11:39 skrev J. J. Lodder:
> >> [...] you will be received more friendly if [...]
>
> > ObAUE: I have a strong urge to add another -ly there,
> > but can see that it would look terrible. Which is correct?
>
> I would write friendlily, and my spilling chucker approves.
>
with the phrase "a friendlier reception..."
Come to think of it, I'd remove the quote marks
and rewrite it in any case.
bill
CDB
> CDB:
Sam Plusnet
--
Sam Plusnet
Sam Plusnet
>
> What on earth (or toil) have I stumbled in to?
>
> You might well have considered my father to be a horny-handed-son-of-the-soil type. A dairy farmer with a strong Wiltshire accent...
>
--
Sam Plusnet
Kerr-Mudd,John
wrote:
claptrap?)
https://thefiveallsfilkins.co.uk/#gallery-1
This gets us back to the low-level farm labo[u]rer "works for all"
Kerr-Mudd,John
<jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Thursday, January 9, 2020 at 4:56:20 PM UTC-7, RH Draney wrote:
>> On 1/9/2020 1:48 PM, John Varela wrote:
>>
>> As are its traditional companion words, "blood" "sweat" and
>> "tears"....
>>
>> ("Toil" is the Zeppo of that set)....r
>
> That marks the best analogy I've seen in a while.
>
Kerr-Mudd,John
> On 10-Jan-20 15:00, Jerry Friedman wrote:
>> On Thursday, January 9, 2020 at 4:56:20 PM UTC-7, RH Draney wrote:
>>
>> That marks the best analogy I've seen in a while.
>>
> What's a lighter got to do with it?
>
(It's a rum do)
Kerr-Mudd,John
Oh hold on, is it Milk Sake?
John Varela
posting to which the OP was replying. This thread is the first time
that I can recall in which someone who responded to a zombie posting
has actually followed up, and good on 'im.
Shakespeare's
> "Double, double toil and trouble" comes to mind for the noun usage.
John Varela
RH Draney
(Wonder if Laura's looking in)....
Before someone gives me too much credit, calling the least- or
last-named member of a finite set "The Zeppo" comes from the title of an
episode of "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" in which Xander fears he has that
role among the "Scooby Gang"....r
Peter T. Daniels
> On 1/10/2020 2:22 PM, Kerr-Mudd,John wrote:
> > On Fri, 10 Jan 2020 15:00:29 GMT, Jerry Friedman
> > <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> On Thursday, January 9, 2020 at 4:56:20 PM UTC-7, RH Draney wrote:
> >>> On 1/9/2020 1:48 PM, John Varela wrote:
> > [I cut some]
> >>> As are its traditional companion words, "blood" "sweat" and
> >>> "tears"....
> >>> ("Toil" is the Zeppo of that set)....r
> >> That marks the best analogy I've seen in a while.
> > Eh? whatever happened to Zorro?
>
> He came out of the night when the full moon was bright....
> (Wonder if Laura's looking in)....
>
> Before someone gives me too much credit, calling the least- or
> last-named member of a finite set "The Zeppo" comes from the title of an
> episode of "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" in which Xander fears he has that
> role among the "Scooby Gang"....r
Mack A. Damia
wrote:
>On 1/10/2020 2:22 PM, Kerr-Mudd,John wrote:
>> On Fri, 10 Jan 2020 15:00:29 GMT, Jerry Friedman
>> <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thursday, January 9, 2020 at 4:56:20 PM UTC-7, RH Draney wrote:
>>>> On 1/9/2020 1:48 PM, John Varela wrote:
>>
>> [I cut some]
>>
>>>>
>>>> As are its traditional companion words, "blood" "sweat" and
>>>> "tears"....
>>>>
>>>> ("Toil" is the Zeppo of that set)....r
>>>
>>> That marks the best analogy I've seen in a while.
>>>
>> Eh? whatever happened to Zorro?
>
>He came out of the night when the full moon was bright....
Jerry Friedman
--
Jerry Friedman