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The bouba/kiki Effect
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Mack A. Damia
Dec 14, 2019, 10:15:57 PM12/14/19
to
The bouba/kiki effect is a non-arbitrary mapping between speech sounds
and the visual shape of objects. This effect was first observed by
German-American psychologist Wolfgang Köhler in 1929. In psychological
experiments first conducted on the island of Tenerife (where the
primary language is Spanish), Köhler showed forms similar to those
shown at the right and asked participants which shape was called
"takete" and which was called "baluba" ("maluma" in the 1947 version).
Although not explicitly stated, Köhler implies that there was a strong
preference to pair the jagged shape with "takete" and the rounded
shape with "baluba".
In 2001, Vilayanur S. Ramachandran and Edward Hubbard repeated
Köhler's experiment using the words "kiki" and "bouba" and asked
American college undergraduates and Tamil speakers in India "Which of
these shapes is bouba and which is kiki?" In both groups, 95% to 98%
selected the curvy shape as "bouba" and the jagged one as "kiki",
suggesting that the human brain somehow attaches abstract meanings to
the shapes and sounds in a consistent way.
Four minute video:
https://youtu.be/CSp9ghRymgk
Wiki article:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bouba/kiki_effect
Ross
Dec 14, 2019, 11:29:51 PM12/14/19
to
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_symbolism
High front vowels vs low or back vowels
Voiceless vs voiced consonants
Mack A. Damia
Dec 14, 2019, 11:44:29 PM12/14/19
to
On Sat, 14 Dec 2019 20:29:48 -0800 (PST), Ross <benl...@ihug.co.nz>
wrote:
I don't think this is so surprising, though. "B" sounds are soft and
round as in "baby", while "K" sounds are hard and sharp as in "kick".
wrote:
round as in "baby", while "K" sounds are hard and sharp as in "kick".
Athel Cornish-Bowden
Dec 15, 2019, 2:32:46 AM12/15/19
to
On 2019-12-15 04:29:48 +0000, Ross said:
> On Sunday, December 15, 2019 at 4:15:57 PM UTC+13, Mack A. Damia wrote:
>> The bouba/kiki effect is a non-arbitrary mapping between speech sounds
>> and the visual shape of objects. This effect was first observed by
>> German-American psychologist Wolfgang Köhler in 1929. In psychological
>> experiments first conducted on the island of Tenerife (where the
>> primary language is Spanish), Köhler showed forms similar to those
>> shown at the right and asked participants which shape was called
>> "takete" and which was called "baluba" ("maluma" in the 1947 version).
>> Although not explicitly stated, Köhler implies that there was a strong
>> preference to pair the jagged shape with "takete" and the rounded
>> shape with "baluba".
>>
>> In 2001, Vilayanur S. Ramachandran and Edward Hubbard repeated
>> Köhler's experiment using the words "kiki" and "bouba" and asked
>> American college undergraduates and Tamil speakers in India "Which of
>> these shapes is bouba and which is kiki?" In both groups, 95% to 98%
>> selected the curvy shape as "bouba" and the jagged one as "kiki",
>> suggesting that the human brain somehow attaches abstract meanings to
>> the shapes and sounds in a consistent way.
Unthinking choice of words. I don't know about Tamil speakers, but many
> On Sunday, December 15, 2019 at 4:15:57 PM UTC+13, Mack A. Damia wrote:
>> The bouba/kiki effect is a non-arbitrary mapping between speech sounds
>> and the visual shape of objects. This effect was first observed by
>> German-American psychologist Wolfgang Köhler in 1929. In psychological
>> experiments first conducted on the island of Tenerife (where the
>> primary language is Spanish), Köhler showed forms similar to those
>> shown at the right and asked participants which shape was called
>> "takete" and which was called "baluba" ("maluma" in the 1947 version).
>> Although not explicitly stated, Köhler implies that there was a strong
>> preference to pair the jagged shape with "takete" and the rounded
>> shape with "baluba".
>>
>> In 2001, Vilayanur S. Ramachandran and Edward Hubbard repeated
>> Köhler's experiment using the words "kiki" and "bouba" and asked
>> American college undergraduates and Tamil speakers in India "Which of
>> these shapes is bouba and which is kiki?" In both groups, 95% to 98%
>> selected the curvy shape as "bouba" and the jagged one as "kiki",
>> suggesting that the human brain somehow attaches abstract meanings to
>> the shapes and sounds in a consistent way.
English speakers will have come across the word "boobs", and for them
it's the meaning of "boobs" not the sound of "bouba" that suggests a
curvy shape.
>>
>> Four minute video:
>>
>> https://youtu.be/CSp9ghRymgk
>>
>> Wiki article:
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bouba/kiki_effect
>
> See also:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_symbolism
>
> High front vowels vs low or back vowels
> Voiceless vs voiced consonants
--
>> Four minute video:
>>
>> https://youtu.be/CSp9ghRymgk
>>
>> Wiki article:
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bouba/kiki_effect
>
> See also:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_symbolism
>
> High front vowels vs low or back vowels
> Voiceless vs voiced consonants
athel
Ross
Dec 15, 2019, 5:01:09 AM12/15/19
to
precisely because we do (apparently all of us) make
associations like that between sounds and shapes, and so
on. The use of words like "soft" and "sharp" across
senses (sound/shape/texture/taste) is a result of this,
rather than an explanation.
I wasn't offering an explanation, just pointing to what
I think are the specific phonetic differences between "bouba" and "kiki" which trigger the effect.
occam
Dec 15, 2019, 5:08:19 AM12/15/19
to
On 15/12/2019 08:32, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> On 2019-12-15 04:29:48 +0000, Ross said:
>
>> On Sunday, December 15, 2019 at 4:15:57 PM UTC+13, Mack A. Damia wrote:
>>> The bouba/kiki effect is a non-arbitrary mapping between speech sounds
>>> and the visual shape of objects. This effect was first observed by
>>> German-American psychologist Wolfgang Köhler in 1929. In psychological
>>> experiments first conducted on the island of Tenerife (where the
>>> primary language is Spanish), Köhler showed forms similar to those
>>> shown at the right and asked participants which shape was called
>>> "takete" and which was called "baluba" ("maluma" in the 1947 version).
>>> Although not explicitly stated, Köhler implies that there was a strong
>>> preference to pair the jagged shape with "takete" and the rounded
>>> shape with "baluba".
>>>
>>> In 2001, Vilayanur S. Ramachandran and Edward Hubbard repeated
>>> Köhler's experiment using the words "kiki" and "bouba" and asked
>>> American college undergraduates and Tamil speakers in India "Which of
>>> these shapes is bouba and which is kiki?" In both groups, 95% to 98%
>>> selected the curvy shape as "bouba" and the jagged one as "kiki",
>>> suggesting that the human brain somehow attaches abstract meanings to
>>> the shapes and sounds in a consistent way.
>
> Unthinking choice of words. I don't know about Tamil speakers, but many
> English speakers will have come across the word "boobs", and for them
> it's the meaning of "boobs" not the sound of "bouba" that suggests a
> curvy shape.
You are suggesting that the effect could be just as effectively be named
> On 2019-12-15 04:29:48 +0000, Ross said:
>
>> On Sunday, December 15, 2019 at 4:15:57 PM UTC+13, Mack A. Damia wrote:
>>> The bouba/kiki effect is a non-arbitrary mapping between speech sounds
>>> and the visual shape of objects. This effect was first observed by
>>> German-American psychologist Wolfgang Köhler in 1929. In psychological
>>> experiments first conducted on the island of Tenerife (where the
>>> primary language is Spanish), Köhler showed forms similar to those
>>> shown at the right and asked participants which shape was called
>>> "takete" and which was called "baluba" ("maluma" in the 1947 version).
>>> Although not explicitly stated, Köhler implies that there was a strong
>>> preference to pair the jagged shape with "takete" and the rounded
>>> shape with "baluba".
>>>
>>> In 2001, Vilayanur S. Ramachandran and Edward Hubbard repeated
>>> Köhler's experiment using the words "kiki" and "bouba" and asked
>>> American college undergraduates and Tamil speakers in India "Which of
>>> these shapes is bouba and which is kiki?" In both groups, 95% to 98%
>>> selected the curvy shape as "bouba" and the jagged one as "kiki",
>>> suggesting that the human brain somehow attaches abstract meanings to
>>> the shapes and sounds in a consistent way.
>
> Unthinking choice of words. I don't know about Tamil speakers, but many
> English speakers will have come across the word "boobs", and for them
> it's the meaning of "boobs" not the sound of "bouba" that suggests a
> curvy shape.
booby/diki effect?
RH Draney
Dec 15, 2019, 9:29:06 AM12/15/19
to
Peter T. Daniels
Dec 15, 2019, 10:30:06 AM12/15/19
to
On Sunday, December 15, 2019 at 2:32:46 AM UTC-5, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> On 2019-12-15 04:29:48 +0000, Ross said:
> > On Sunday, December 15, 2019 at 4:15:57 PM UTC+13, Mack A. Damia wrote:
> >> The bouba/kiki effect is a non-arbitrary mapping between speech sounds
> >> and the visual shape of objects. This effect was first observed by
> >> German-American psychologist Wolfgang Köhler in 1929. In psychological
> >> experiments first conducted on the island of Tenerife (where the
> >> primary language is Spanish), Köhler showed forms similar to those
> >> shown at the right and asked participants which shape was called
> >> "takete" and which was called "baluba" ("maluma" in the 1947 version).
> >> Although not explicitly stated, Köhler implies that there was a strong
> >> preference to pair the jagged shape with "takete" and the rounded
> >> shape with "baluba".
> >>
> >> In 2001, Vilayanur S. Ramachandran and Edward Hubbard repeated
> >> Köhler's experiment using the words "kiki" and "bouba" and asked
> >> American college undergraduates and Tamil speakers in India "Which of
> >> these shapes is bouba and which is kiki?" In both groups, 95% to 98%
> >> selected the curvy shape as "bouba" and the jagged one as "kiki",
> >> suggesting that the human brain somehow attaches abstract meanings to
> >> the shapes and sounds in a consistent way.
>
> Unthinking choice of words. I don't know about Tamil speakers, but many
> English speakers will have come across the word "boobs", and for them
> it's the meaning of "boobs" not the sound of "bouba" that suggests a
> curvy shape.
Why does it work for all sorts of sound combinations that have nothing
> On 2019-12-15 04:29:48 +0000, Ross said:
> > On Sunday, December 15, 2019 at 4:15:57 PM UTC+13, Mack A. Damia wrote:
> >> The bouba/kiki effect is a non-arbitrary mapping between speech sounds
> >> and the visual shape of objects. This effect was first observed by
> >> German-American psychologist Wolfgang Köhler in 1929. In psychological
> >> experiments first conducted on the island of Tenerife (where the
> >> primary language is Spanish), Köhler showed forms similar to those
> >> shown at the right and asked participants which shape was called
> >> "takete" and which was called "baluba" ("maluma" in the 1947 version).
> >> Although not explicitly stated, Köhler implies that there was a strong
> >> preference to pair the jagged shape with "takete" and the rounded
> >> shape with "baluba".
> >>
> >> In 2001, Vilayanur S. Ramachandran and Edward Hubbard repeated
> >> Köhler's experiment using the words "kiki" and "bouba" and asked
> >> American college undergraduates and Tamil speakers in India "Which of
> >> these shapes is bouba and which is kiki?" In both groups, 95% to 98%
> >> selected the curvy shape as "bouba" and the jagged one as "kiki",
> >> suggesting that the human brain somehow attaches abstract meanings to
> >> the shapes and sounds in a consistent way.
>
> Unthinking choice of words. I don't know about Tamil speakers, but many
> English speakers will have come across the word "boobs", and for them
> it's the meaning of "boobs" not the sound of "bouba" that suggests a
> curvy shape.
to do with Freudian fixations?
Jerry Friedman
Dec 15, 2019, 11:48:56 AM12/15/19
to
sounds are soft as in "kiss".
--
Jerry Friedman
Athel Cornish-Bowden
Dec 15, 2019, 12:45:55 PM12/15/19
to
On 2019-12-15 03:15:28 +0000, Mack A. Damia said:
> The bouba/kiki effect is a non-arbitrary mapping...
Each time I see the subject line I read it as The Bourbaki Effect.
Nicolas Bourbaki was a fictitious mathematician, who published work
under that name but was actually a collective of Fench mathematicians,
including Szolem Mandelbrojt, the uncle of Benoît Mandelbrot (famous
for his work on fractals and the Mandelbrot set).
--
athel
> The bouba/kiki effect is a non-arbitrary mapping...
Each time I see the subject line I read it as The Bourbaki Effect.
Nicolas Bourbaki was a fictitious mathematician, who published work
under that name but was actually a collective of Fench mathematicians,
including Szolem Mandelbrojt, the uncle of Benoît Mandelbrot (famous
for his work on fractals and the Mandelbrot set).
--
athel
Mack A. Damia
Dec 15, 2019, 12:51:57 PM12/15/19
to
David Kleinecke
Dec 15, 2019, 1:41:33 PM12/15/19
to
J. J. Lodder
Dec 15, 2019, 3:57:36 PM12/15/19
to
Unless they masquerade as physicists for some of their time,
Jan
Peter T. Daniels
Dec 15, 2019, 4:12:38 PM12/15/19
to
On Sunday, December 15, 2019 at 12:45:55 PM UTC-5, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> On 2019-12-15 03:15:28 +0000, Mack A. Damia said:
> > The bouba/kiki effect is a non-arbitrary mapping...
>
> Each time I see the subject line I read it as The Bourbaki Effect.
> Nicolas Bourbaki was a fictitious mathematician,
Is Lewis Carroll a "fictitious" writer? How are pseudonyms "fiction"?
> On 2019-12-15 03:15:28 +0000, Mack A. Damia said:
> > The bouba/kiki effect is a non-arbitrary mapping...
>
> Each time I see the subject line I read it as The Bourbaki Effect.
> Nicolas Bourbaki was a fictitious mathematician,
skpf...@gmail.com
Dec 15, 2019, 4:19:49 PM12/15/19
to
Ayn Rand does this with the subtlity of a sledge hammer in her novels - the bad guys are called things like "Mouch","Balph Eubank " and so forth. good guys get what Rand perceived as "noble" names.
Peter Moylan
Dec 15, 2019, 11:45:10 PM12/15/19
to
DGST, but as I recall it she only ever published three or four small papers.
Mr Google tells me that I have previously mentioned her in AUE, about
ten years ago, and that my post at that time ended with the words "Vale
Pollini!" I'd forgotten about Pollini.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Ross
Dec 16, 2019, 12:01:08 AM12/16/19
to
On Monday, December 16, 2019 at 10:12:38 AM UTC+13, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> On Sunday, December 15, 2019 at 12:45:55 PM UTC-5, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> > On 2019-12-15 03:15:28 +0000, Mack A. Damia said:
>
> > > The bouba/kiki effect is a non-arbitrary mapping...
> >
> > Each time I see the subject line I read it as The Bourbaki Effect.
> > Nicolas Bourbaki was a fictitious mathematician,
>
> Is Lewis Carroll a "fictitious" writer? How are pseudonyms "fiction"?
Well, Bourbaki's singularity was certainly a fiction.
> On Sunday, December 15, 2019 at 12:45:55 PM UTC-5, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> > On 2019-12-15 03:15:28 +0000, Mack A. Damia said:
>
> > > The bouba/kiki effect is a non-arbitrary mapping...
> >
> > Each time I see the subject line I read it as The Bourbaki Effect.
> > Nicolas Bourbaki was a fictitious mathematician,
>
> Is Lewis Carroll a "fictitious" writer? How are pseudonyms "fiction"?
Apparently the group did from time to time create
aspects of a pseudo-biography for him, but not
comprehensively. Also, the collective's official name
was "Association des collaborateurs de Nicolas Bourbaki",
which suggests that he was presented as an individual
not just a cover term for the group.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolas_Bourbaki
Athel Cornish-Bowden
Dec 16, 2019, 2:05:17 AM12/16/19
to
On 2019-12-16 05:01:05 +0000, Ross said:
> On Monday, December 16, 2019 at 10:12:38 AM UTC+13, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>> On Sunday, December 15, 2019 at 12:45:55 PM UTC-5, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>>> On 2019-12-15 03:15:28 +0000, Mack A. Damia said:
>>
>>>> The bouba/kiki effect is a non-arbitrary mapping...
>>>
>>> Each time I see the subject line I read it as The Bourbaki Effect.
>>> Nicolas Bourbaki was a fictitious mathematician,
>>
>> Is Lewis Carroll a "fictitious" writer? How are pseudonyms "fiction"?
Good grief! Is PTD really as stupid as he pretends? Lewis Carroll was a
> On Monday, December 16, 2019 at 10:12:38 AM UTC+13, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>> On Sunday, December 15, 2019 at 12:45:55 PM UTC-5, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>>> On 2019-12-15 03:15:28 +0000, Mack A. Damia said:
>>
>>>> The bouba/kiki effect is a non-arbitrary mapping...
>>>
>>> Each time I see the subject line I read it as The Bourbaki Effect.
>>> Nicolas Bourbaki was a fictitious mathematician,
>>
>> Is Lewis Carroll a "fictitious" writer? How are pseudonyms "fiction"?
real person. Nicolas Bourbaki was not.
>
> Well, Bourbaki's singularity was certainly a fiction.
> Apparently the group did from time to time create
> aspects of a pseudo-biography for him, but not
> comprehensively. Also, the collective's official name
> was "Association des collaborateurs de Nicolas Bourbaki",
> which suggests that he was presented as an individual
> not just a cover term for the group.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolas_Bourbaki
--
> Well, Bourbaki's singularity was certainly a fiction.
> Apparently the group did from time to time create
> aspects of a pseudo-biography for him, but not
> comprehensively. Also, the collective's official name
> was "Association des collaborateurs de Nicolas Bourbaki",
> which suggests that he was presented as an individual
> not just a cover term for the group.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolas_Bourbaki
athel
J. J. Lodder
Dec 16, 2019, 6:03:59 AM12/16/19
to
Ross <benl...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
> On Monday, December 16, 2019 at 10:12:38 AM UTC+13, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > On Sunday, December 15, 2019 at 12:45:55 PM UTC-5, Athel Cornish-Bowden:
> On Monday, December 16, 2019 at 10:12:38 AM UTC+13, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > > On 2019-12-15 03:15:28 +0000, Mack A. Damia said:
> >
> > > > The bouba/kiki effect is a non-arbitrary mapping...
> > >
> > > Each time I see the subject line I read it as The Bourbaki Effect.
> > > Nicolas Bourbaki was a fictitious mathematician,
> >
> > Is Lewis Carroll a "fictitious" writer? How are pseudonyms "fiction"?
>
> Well, Bourbaki's singularity was certainly a fiction.
> Apparently the group did from time to time create
> aspects of a pseudo-biography for him, but not
> comprehensively. Also, the collective's official name
> was "Association des collaborateurs de Nicolas Bourbaki",
> which suggests that he was presented as an individual
> not just a cover term for the group.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolas_Bourbaki
For a while they also kept up the fiction
> >
> > > > The bouba/kiki effect is a non-arbitrary mapping...
> > >
> > > Each time I see the subject line I read it as The Bourbaki Effect.
> > > Nicolas Bourbaki was a fictitious mathematician,
> >
> > Is Lewis Carroll a "fictitious" writer? How are pseudonyms "fiction"?
>
> Well, Bourbaki's singularity was certainly a fiction.
> Apparently the group did from time to time create
> aspects of a pseudo-biography for him, but not
> comprehensively. Also, the collective's official name
> was "Association des collaborateurs de Nicolas Bourbaki",
> which suggests that he was presented as an individual
> not just a cover term for the group.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolas_Bourbaki
that Bourbaki was a real person by having M.Bourbaki
appear in public, as announced speaker at a conference for example.
Next he would send an excuse with some reason
for not being able to attend in person.
Fortunately he had found some other mathematician
who was willing to read his notes.
Jan
Peter T. Daniels
Dec 16, 2019, 8:04:22 AM12/16/19
to
On Monday, December 16, 2019 at 2:05:17 AM UTC-5, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> On 2019-12-16 05:01:05 +0000, Ross said:
>
> > On Monday, December 16, 2019 at 10:12:38 AM UTC+13, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> >> On Sunday, December 15, 2019 at 12:45:55 PM UTC-5, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> >>> On 2019-12-15 03:15:28 +0000, Mack A. Damia said:
> >>
> >>>> The bouba/kiki effect is a non-arbitrary mapping...
> >>>
> >>> Each time I see the subject line I read it as The Bourbaki Effect.
> >>> Nicolas Bourbaki was a fictitious mathematician,
> >>
> >> Is Lewis Carroll a "fictitious" writer? How are pseudonyms "fiction"?
>
> Good grief! Is PTD really as stupid as he pretends? Lewis Carroll was a
> real person. Nicolas Bourbaki was not.
Is it your claim that none of their contemporaries were aware that they
> On 2019-12-16 05:01:05 +0000, Ross said:
>
> > On Monday, December 16, 2019 at 10:12:38 AM UTC+13, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> >> On Sunday, December 15, 2019 at 12:45:55 PM UTC-5, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> >>> On 2019-12-15 03:15:28 +0000, Mack A. Damia said:
> >>
> >>>> The bouba/kiki effect is a non-arbitrary mapping...
> >>>
> >>> Each time I see the subject line I read it as The Bourbaki Effect.
> >>> Nicolas Bourbaki was a fictitious mathematician,
> >>
> >> Is Lewis Carroll a "fictitious" writer? How are pseudonyms "fiction"?
>
> Good grief! Is PTD really as stupid as he pretends? Lewis Carroll was a
> real person. Nicolas Bourbaki was not.
were a group using the name of an individual? How is that different from
any sort of corporate name for a collaborative? (Architecture and design
firms routinely have such names these days.)
Peter T. Daniels
Dec 16, 2019, 8:05:15 AM12/16/19
to
J. J. Lodder
Dec 16, 2019, 10:40:35 AM12/16/19
to
Peter T. Daniels <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On Monday, December 16, 2019 at 2:05:17 AM UTC-5, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> > On 2019-12-16 05:01:05 +0000, Ross said:
> >
> > > On Monday, December 16, 2019 at 10:12:38 AM UTC+13, Peter T. Daniels:
> On Monday, December 16, 2019 at 2:05:17 AM UTC-5, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> > On 2019-12-16 05:01:05 +0000, Ross said:
> >
> > >> On Sunday, December 15, 2019 at 12:45:55 PM UTC-5, Athel Cornish-Bowden:
> > >>> On 2019-12-15 03:15:28 +0000, Mack A. Damia said:
> > >>
> > >>>> The bouba/kiki effect is a non-arbitrary mapping...
> > >>>
> > >>> Each time I see the subject line I read it as The Bourbaki Effect.
> > >>> Nicolas Bourbaki was a fictitious mathematician,
> > >>
> > >> Is Lewis Carroll a "fictitious" writer? How are pseudonyms "fiction"?
> >
> > Good grief! Is PTD really as stupid as he pretends? Lewis Carroll was a
> > real person. Nicolas Bourbaki was not.
>
> Is it your claim that none of their contemporaries were aware that they
> were a group using the name of an individual? How is that different from
> any sort of corporate name for a collaborative? (Architecture and design
> firms routinely have such names these days.)
The mathematical community was kept in the dark
> > >>
> > >>>> The bouba/kiki effect is a non-arbitrary mapping...
> > >>>
> > >>> Each time I see the subject line I read it as The Bourbaki Effect.
> > >>> Nicolas Bourbaki was a fictitious mathematician,
> > >>
> > >> Is Lewis Carroll a "fictitious" writer? How are pseudonyms "fiction"?
> >
> > Good grief! Is PTD really as stupid as he pretends? Lewis Carroll was a
> > real person. Nicolas Bourbaki was not.
>
> Is it your claim that none of their contemporaries were aware that they
> were a group using the name of an individual? How is that different from
> any sort of corporate name for a collaborative? (Architecture and design
> firms routinely have such names these days.)
about Bourbaki's existence for a long time.
Believers argued with doubters,
Jan
David Kleinecke
Dec 16, 2019, 12:03:22 PM12/16/19
to
about 1947 at Berkeley they all knew Bourbaki was a composite.
Peter T. Daniels
Dec 16, 2019, 12:49:27 PM12/16/19
to
published early in the war but the series wasn't resumed until 1949, so
"his" nature can't have been a secret for long. Whether the individuals'
identities were known is a different question that isn't discussed in the
article
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolas_Bourbaki
Quinn C
Dec 16, 2019, 6:59:19 PM12/16/19
to
* Jerry Friedman:
Soft as barbed wire, hard as cotton?
> To me, B sounds are hard and round as in "ball" and "bat", while K
> sounds are soft as in "kiss".
I don't associate balls with being hard. Especially not cottonballs.
--
(\_/)
(='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste Bunny into your
(")_(") signature to help him gain world domination.
> To me, B sounds are hard and round as in "ball" and "bat", while K
> sounds are soft as in "kiss".
--
(\_/)
(='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste Bunny into your
(")_(") signature to help him gain world domination.
Mack A. Damia
Dec 17, 2019, 7:49:52 AM12/17/19
to
BBC children's program.
Start at the 17:00 mark:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HI7HrzGjvBw
"Hilarious boner!"
Kerr-Mudd,John
Dec 17, 2019, 7:59:49 AM12/17/19
to
On Tue, 17 Dec 2019 12:49:40 GMT, Mack A. Damia <drstee...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
You cudda stuck the time on the url:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HI7HrzGjvBw#t=17m5s
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HI7HrzGjvBw#t=17m5s
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Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
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