Forrid
Bktep
>Date: Mon, Jan 26, 1998 15:03 EST
>Message-id: <34CCEC...@us.ibm.com>
>
>Chaps,
>In a movie I saw last night, Hugh Grant asked a doctor if his baby had a
>third eye in the middle of his FORRID. Raised in Liverpool we always
>used FORRID instead of Forehead.
>But how do you write/spell FORRID?
A poem from my childhood:
There was a little girl
Who had a little curl
Right in the middle of her forehead
When she was good
She was very, very good
But when she was bad, she was HORRID
I was taught that the poem was supposed to be a lesson in how to pronounce
forehead. namely: "forrid"
Barbara
Robert Lieblich
Mike Etherington wrote:
>
> Chaps,
> In a movie I saw last night, Hugh Grant asked a doctor if his baby had a
> third eye in the middle of his FORRID. Raised in Liverpool we always
> used FORRID instead of Forehead.
>
> But how do you write/spell FORRID?
"Forehead."
Unless you're doing it in ASCII IPA.
> Answers on a postcard
Sorry, I used my last virtual postcard yesterday.
Bob Lieblich
Thomas Schenk
Mike Etherington wrote:
> Chaps,
> In a movie I saw last night, Hugh Grant asked a doctor if his baby had a
> third eye in the middle of his FORRID. Raised in Liverpool we always
> used FORRID instead of Forehead.
>
The proper US pronunciation of "forehead" will probably be acrimoniously
debated in view of the fact that the dictionaries that I have consulted ALL
give "forrid" or /'for@d/ as the first pronunciation, I have serious
reservations about whether this is a reflection of what goes on in the real
world. Most Americans pronounce the word /'forhEd/. Fifty years ago I was
taught in grammar school that the word rhymes with "horrid", but I observed,
even then, that almost no one pronounced it that way outside of a classroom.
In an unrestrained fit of youthful rebellion, I decided then to pronounce
it as two separate words, "fore head", and, never looking back, have done so
since.
Best regards,
Tom
--
*******************
Dr Thomas M Schenk
Laguna Beach, California
Charles Dillingham
Thomas Schenk wrote:
> The proper US pronunciation of "forehead" will probably be acrimoniously
> debated in view of the fact that the dictionaries that I have consulted ALL
> give "forrid" or /'for@d/ as the first pronunciation, I have serious
> reservations about whether this is a reflection of what goes on in the real
> world. Most Americans pronounce the word /'forhEd/. Fifty years ago I was
> taught in grammar school that the word rhymes with "horrid", but I observed,
> even then, that almost no one pronounced it that way outside of a classroom.
> In an unrestrained fit of youthful rebellion, I decided then to pronounce
> it as two separate words, "fore head", and, never looking back, have done so
> since.
Should this be taken to mean that you subscribe to the
speak-as-you-spell school
of thought, or is this particular mispronunciaton just an expression of
youthful
recalcitrance?
- Charles Dillingham
Truly Donovan
On Mon, 26 Jan 1998 23:16:40 -0500, Charles Dillingham <c...@pil.net>
wrote:
>Should this be taken to mean that you subscribe to the
>speak-as-you-spell school
>of thought, or is this particular mispronunciaton just an expression of
>youthful
>recalcitrance?
You haven't considered the possibility that this particular
pronunciation was a recognition of, teachers notwithstanding, the
pronunciation that is prevalent in the United States.
--
Truly Donovan
reply to truly at lunemere dot com
Aaron J. Dinkin
In article <34d3b283...@nntp.ix.netcom.com>, abc...@lafn.org (Bob
Cunningham) wrote:
> D@r wVz @ 'lId@l g@rl hu h&d @ 'lId@l k@rl
> rAid In D- 'mId@l @v @r 'fOr,hEd .
> wEn Si: w@z gUd Si: w@z 'vEri: 'vEri: gUd ,
> b@t wEn Si: w@z b&d Si: w@z 'hOr,hEd .
> -- A:T@r ?
/dont hOld mi t@ DIs/, /b@t aI TINk It maIt bi 'lANfElo/. /D@ g@rlz nem Iz
dZ@'maIm@/, /&z In/ "/ant dZ@'maIm@/".
> 'Eks@r,sAiz :
>
> k@m'pOuz a pOum 'juz@n " 'flOr@d ", " 'tOr@d ", " 'hOr@d " ,
> n- " 'fOr@d ".
/a/, /b@t In maI p@'kjulj@r 'daI@lEkt/, "/'tAr@d/" /@nd/ "/'hAr@d/" /dont
raIm wIT/ "/'flOrId/". /wVt @m aI t@ du/?
> If ju lAik , juz mOr w@rdz 'rAimi:N w@D " 'flOr@d ". ( wEr Iz r@'bVzi:
> wEn wi: ni:d im mOust ? ( Or Iz D&t r@'bVtsi: ? ) )
/aI 'alwez sOrt@ TAt It wVz/ "/r@'bjuzi/".
-Aaron J. Dinkin
Dr. Whom
Donna Richoux
Thomas Schenk <tmsc...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
[snip interesting account]
> In an unrestrained fit of youthful rebellion, I decided then to pronounce
> it as two separate words, "fore head", and, never looking back, have done so
To me, it's even simpler -- "fore-head" is the US pronunciation,
"forrid" is British.
Let's re-write that rhyme: "When she was bad, she was a sore-head."
Best --- Donna Richoux
Bob Cunningham
On Mon, 26 Jan 1998 18:16:18 -0500, Robert Lieblich <lieb...@erols.com>
said:
>Mike Etherington wrote:
>>
>> Chaps,
>> In a movie I saw last night, Hugh Grant asked a doctor if his baby had a
>> third eye in the middle of his FORRID. Raised in Liverpool we always
>> used FORRID instead of Forehead.
>>
>> But how do you write/spell FORRID?
>
>"Forehead."
>
>Unless you're doing it in ASCII IPA.
D@r wVz @ 'lId@l g@rl hu h&d @ 'lId@l k@rl
rAid In D- 'mId@l @v @r 'fOr,hEd .
wEn Si: w@z gUd Si: w@z 'vEri: 'vEri: gUd ,
b@t wEn Si: w@z b&d Si: w@z 'hOr,hEd .
-- A:T@r ?
'Eks@r,sAiz :
k@m'pOuz a pOum 'juz@n " 'flOr@d ", " 'tOr@d ", " 'hOr@d " ,
n- " 'fOr@d ".
If ju lAik , juz mOr w@rdz 'rAimi:N w@D " 'flOr@d ". ( wEr Iz r@'bVzi:
wEn wi: ni:d im mOust ? ( Or Iz D&t r@'bVtsi: ? ) )
--
Bob Cunningham, Southern California, USofA
To send e-mail, remove my initials from my address.
E-mail is welcome, but copies of postings aren't necessary.
Steve MacGregor
Donna Richoux <tr...@euronet.nl> wrote in article
<1d3ijgi.1dp...@p015.hlm.euronet.nl>...
<<To me, it's even simpler -- "fore-head" is the US pronunciation,
"forrid" is British.>>
Oh, okay. I always considered "forrid" just a sloppy
pronunciation, like "gunna" for "going to".
--
(Reply to SPMacGregor at NetValue dot Net)
---------------------------------------------------------
Whom are you going to call? GRAMMAR BUSTERS!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
Mark Odegard
tr...@euronet.nl (Donna Richoux) wrote
|Thomas Schenk <tmsc...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
[...]
|To me, it's even simpler -- "fore-head" is the US pronunciation,
|"forrid" is British.
|
|Let's re-write that rhyme: "When she was bad, she was a sore-head."
"Sore-head" is stressed as two separate words, while "forehead"
is stressed as one.
For me, /'fhOr: Ed/ is probably a better transcription.
I think the word here is metathesis, or at least it's one of the
words. With an R, if the vowel before it is U-ish or schwa-ish,
and especially if if it's /O/ (and depending on stress as well
as the consonant preceding), I seem to introduce an H, and the
whole sound-cluster is influenced. With "forehead", the initial
H of the second syllable seems to have been assimilated to the
preceding sound-cluster; while *something* H-like seems to be
happening as my mouth moves to make the vowel of the final
syllable, it's something very weak. In effect, the "h" in
"forehead" has flipped places with the R -- and as I understand
it, this is metathesis. But because I tend to introduce this
h-sound into nearly *all* /Or/ combinations, assimilation would
also seem to be at work.
As the IPA-ASCII chart at Markus' site notes, some Americans
have the vowel we represent here as [O] *only* before [r]. I'm
one of those Americans. I also discriminate between "for" and
"four": for is /fhOr/; four is something like /fo@r/ -- and as
some will note, this transcription does not follow the advice
given in the table.
I have never been completely comfortable with the sound values
given in IPA-ASCII. Mostly, it's because I've learned the
underlying system imperfectly, and mostly have to rely on what
I've *read* to make sense of it all. But also, part of my
discomfort is that I think my vowels are subtly shifted away
from the norms represented there **when the vowel encounters an
R**.
--
Mark Odegard.
My real address doesn't include a Christian name.
Emailed copies of responses are very much appreciated.
Lee Rudolph
marko...@ptel.net (Mark Odegard) writes:
>tr...@euronet.nl (Donna Richoux) wrote
>
>|Let's re-write that rhyme: "When she was bad, she was a sore-head."
>
>"Sore-head" is stressed as two separate words, while "forehead"
>is stressed as one.
Speak for yourself, sir.
I don't think they are *quite* full rhymes, stress and all, in
my idiolect, but they're darned close. And I pronounce the "h"
in both (as you seem not to--I deleted the ASCII IPA too quickly,
though, and perhaps I'm misremembered what you wrote).
Lee Rudolph
Larry Phillips
Mark Odegard wrote:
> |Let's re-write that rhyme: "When she was bad, she was a sore-head."
>
> "Sore-head" is stressed as two separate words, while "forehead"
> is stressed as one.
The only distinguishing difference in the way I pronounce those two
constructs is in the initial consonant. The stress is identical.
--
------------------------------------------------------------
Sixty billion gigabits can do much. It even does windows.
-- Fred Pohl, Beyond the Blue Event Horizon, 1980
http://home.bc.rogers.wave.ca/larryp
------------------------------------------------------------
Donna Richoux
Larry Phillips <lar...@bc.rogers.wave.ca> wrote:
> Mark Odegard wrote:
>
> > |Let's re-write that rhyme: "When she was bad, she was a sore-head."
> >
> > "Sore-head" is stressed as two separate words, while "forehead"
> > is stressed as one.
>
> The only distinguishing difference in the way I pronounce those two
> constructs is in the initial consonant. The stress is identical.
Yes, that's what I meant, too. I guess that Mark pronounces "she was a
sore-head" the same way as in "she has a sore head," which does have a
different stress pattern, for me. A White House/white house sort of
thing.
Best wishes --- Donna Richoux
Simon R. Hughes
On 27 Jan 1998 18:46:03 -0500, lrud...@panix.com (Lee Rudolph) wrote:
> marko...@ptel.net (Mark Odegard) writes:
>
> >tr...@euronet.nl (Donna Richoux) wrote
> >
> >|Let's re-write that rhyme: "When she was bad, she was a sore-head."
> >
> >"Sore-head" is stressed as two separate words, while "forehead"
> >is stressed as one.
>
> Speak for yourself, sir.
>
> I don't think they are *quite* full rhymes, stress and all, in
> my idiolect, but they're darned close. And I pronounce the "h"
> in both (as you seem not to--I deleted the ASCII IPA too quickly,
> though, and perhaps I'm misremembered what you wrote).
There was a little girl,
Who had a little curl,
Right in the middle of her forehead,
And when she was good,
She was very very good,
And when she was bad,
She was horrid.
Simon R. Hughes
mailto:shu...@geocities.com
(Mail not sent directly to the above address will be deleted before being read.)