Re: Chicken Parts

[Janet]

In article <drumstick-20...@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>,
r...@zedat.fu-berlin.de says...
>
> Stefan Ram <r...@zedat.fu-berlin.de> writes:
> >To be most clear, use "whole chicken leg", not "chicken leg",
> >for a whole chicken leg, because "chicken leg" alone can
> >mean just the chicken drumstick.
> >For the same reason, prefer "chicken drumstick" to just
> >"chicken leg" for the drumstick.

A chicken leg has two parts to it, the drumstick and the thigh. The
drumstick is the calf part of the leg, while the thigh is the top part
of the leg.

The bone inside a chicken's lower leg bears a resemblance to a
drumstick, hence the name.

> The Victorian era was apparently somehow concerned with the legs.
> Women were not permitted to lift skirt high enough to reveal ankles.

They were concerned with ladies' modesty; but that discretion did
not extend to the legs of horses, dogs, men, birds, tarts and dancing
girls; all illustrated in paintings, sculpture, photos etc.

> It was at that time that the word "drumstick" began to be used for
> "chicken leg" - to avoid the word "leg".

Nonsense. In Victorian days, leg of pork/lamb/mutton were familiar
culinary/menu terms.

Janet

[Richard Heathfield]

Interesting take on the myth:

http://bookworm1860.blogspot.com/2010/02/prudery-and-pianos-victorian-myth_7757.html


--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

[David Kleinecke]

In the same vein the cartoon of Comstock hauling a woman before a
judge "This woman gave birth to a naked baby"

[Ken Blake]

On 10/12/2021 7:13 AM, Janet wrote:
> In article <drumstick-20...@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>,
> r...@zedat.fu-berlin.de says...
>>
>> Stefan Ram <r...@zedat.fu-berlin.de> writes:
>> >To be most clear, use "whole chicken leg", not "chicken leg",
>> >for a whole chicken leg, because "chicken leg" alone can
>> >mean just the chicken drumstick.
>> >For the same reason, prefer "chicken drumstick" to just
>> >"chicken leg" for the drumstick.
>
> A chicken leg has two parts to it, the drumstick and the thigh. The
> drumstick is the calf part of the leg, while the thigh is the top part
> of the leg.
>
> The bone inside a chicken's lower leg bears a resemblance to a
> drumstick, hence the name.

The larger of the two bones, the tibia, not the fibula.

>> The Victorian era was apparently somehow concerned with the legs.
>> Women were not permitted to lift skirt high enough to reveal ankles.
>
> They were concerned with ladies' modesty; but that discretion did
> not extend to the legs of horses, dogs, men, birds, tarts and dancing
> girls; all illustrated in paintings, sculpture, photos etc.
>
>> It was at that time that the word "drumstick" began to be used for
>> "chicken leg" - to avoid the word "leg".
>
> Nonsense. In Victorian days, leg of pork/lamb/mutton were familiar
> culinary/menu terms.
>
> Janet
>

--
Ken

[Ken Blake]

On 10/12/2021 11:09 AM, Stefan Ram wrote:
> Supersedes: <tibiotarsus-2...@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>
> [added "s" to "chicken" to yield "chickens"]

>
> Ken Blake <k...@invalidemail.com> writes:
>>The larger of the two bones, the tibia, not the fibula.
>

> In chickens, the proximal part of the tarsus is fused with
> the tibia forming the tibiotarsus, which - still - sometimes
> is called just "tibia".


Thanks. I didn't know that.

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Tuesday, October 12, 2021 at 10:14:04 AM UTC-4, Janet wrote:
> In article <drumstick-20...@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>,
> r...@zedat.fu-berlin.de says...
> > Stefan Ram <r...@zedat.fu-berlin.de> writes:

> > >To be most clear, use "whole chicken leg", not "chicken leg",
> > >for a whole chicken leg, because "chicken leg" alone can
> > >mean just the chicken drumstick.
> > >For the same reason, prefer "chicken drumstick" to just
> > >"chicken leg" for the drumstick.
>
> A chicken leg has two parts to it, the drumstick and the thigh. The
> drumstick is the calf part of the leg, while the thigh is the top part
> of the leg.

At KFC and Popeye's, the menu item is "leg," not "drumstick."

They do not offer quarter-chickens comprising thigh and drumstick.

They only offer them disarticulated.

> The bone inside a chicken's lower leg bears a resemblance to a
> drumstick, hence the name.
>
> > The Victorian era was apparently somehow concerned with the legs.
> > Women were not permitted to lift skirt high enough to reveal ankles.
>
> They were concerned with ladies' modesty; but that discretion did
> not extend to the legs of horses, dogs, men, birds, tarts and dancing
> girls; all illustrated in paintings, sculpture, photos etc.

It did, however, extend to the legs of tables, which were given something
like today's leg-warmers. If the body part had to be referred to, in refined
circles it was called a "limb." But even that was perhaps indelicate.

[Tak To]

On 10/12/2021 10:13 AM, Janet wrote:
> In article <drumstick-20...@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>,
> r...@zedat.fu-berlin.de says...
>>
>> Stefan Ram <r...@zedat.fu-berlin.de> writes:
>>> To be most clear, use "whole chicken leg", not "chicken leg",
>>> for a whole chicken leg, because "chicken leg" alone can
>>> mean just the chicken drumstick.
>>> For the same reason, prefer "chicken drumstick" to just
>>> "chicken leg" for the drumstick.
>
> A chicken leg has two parts to it, the drumstick and the thigh. The
> drumstick is the calf part of the leg, while the thigh is the top part
> of the leg.
>
> The bone inside a chicken's lower leg bears a resemblance to a
> drumstick, hence the name.

I have never heard of that explanation before. The drumstick
bone (metatarsus) is of the same basic shape as other bones
such as the femur or the tibia. OTOH, the bone with the meat
on it may remind people of a very short and heavily padded
drum mallet.

--
Tak
----------------------------------------------------------------+-----
Tak To ta...@alum.mit.eduxx
--------------------------------------------------------------------^^
[taode takto ~{LU5B~}] NB: trim the xx to get my real email addr

[Jerry Friedman]

On Tuesday, October 12, 2021 at 3:46:39 PM UTC-6, Tak To wrote:
> On 10/12/2021 10:13 AM, Janet wrote:
> > In article <drumstick-20...@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>,
> > r...@zedat.fu-berlin.de says...
> >>
> >> Stefan Ram <r...@zedat.fu-berlin.de> writes:
> >>> To be most clear, use "whole chicken leg", not "chicken leg",
> >>> for a whole chicken leg, because "chicken leg" alone can
> >>> mean just the chicken drumstick.
> >>> For the same reason, prefer "chicken drumstick" to just
> >>> "chicken leg" for the drumstick.
> >
> > A chicken leg has two parts to it, the drumstick and the thigh. The
> > drumstick is the calf part of the leg, while the thigh is the top part
> > of the leg.
> >
> > The bone inside a chicken's lower leg bears a resemblance to a
> > drumstick, hence the name.

> I have never heard of that explanation before. The drumstick
> bone (metatarsus) is of the same basic shape as other bones
> such as the femur or the tibia. OTOH, the bone with the meat
> on it may remind people of a very short and heavily padded
> drum mallet.

That's what I always assumed.

Btw, in my experience the equivalent part of a turkey is called a
leg much more often than it's called a drumstick.

--
Jerry Friedman

[Tak To]

On 10/12/2021 5:46 PM, Tak To wrote:
> On 10/12/2021 10:13 AM, Janet wrote:
>> In article <drumstick-20...@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>,
>> r...@zedat.fu-berlin.de says...
>>>
>>> Stefan Ram <r...@zedat.fu-berlin.de> writes:
>>>> To be most clear, use "whole chicken leg", not "chicken leg",
>>>> for a whole chicken leg, because "chicken leg" alone can
>>>> mean just the chicken drumstick.
>>>> For the same reason, prefer "chicken drumstick" to just
>>>> "chicken leg" for the drumstick.
>>
>> A chicken leg has two parts to it, the drumstick and the thigh. The
>> drumstick is the calf part of the leg, while the thigh is the top part
>> of the leg.
>>
>> The bone inside a chicken's lower leg bears a resemblance to a
>> drumstick, hence the name.
>
> I have never heard of that explanation before. The drumstick
> bone (metatarsus)

"metatarsus" -> "tibia"

> is of the same basic shape as other bones
> such as the femur or the tibia.

"or the tibia" -> ""

[Janet]

In article <c6ad3c1b-efeb-4371...@googlegroups.com>,
gram...@verizon.net says...

>
> On Tuesday, October 12, 2021 at 10:14:04 AM UTC-4, Janet wrote:
> > In article <drumstick-20...@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>,
> > r...@zedat.fu-berlin.de says...
> > > Stefan Ram <r...@zedat.fu-berlin.de> writes:
>
> > > >To be most clear, use "whole chicken leg", not "chicken leg",
> > > >for a whole chicken leg, because "chicken leg" alone can
> > > >mean just the chicken drumstick.
> > > >For the same reason, prefer "chicken drumstick" to just
> > > >"chicken leg" for the drumstick.
> >
> > A chicken leg has two parts to it, the drumstick and the thigh. The
> > drumstick is the calf part of the leg, while the thigh is the top part
> > of the leg.
>
> At KFC and Popeye's, the menu item is "leg," not "drumstick."

The above was anatomical. You have a limb which you no doubt identify
as your "leg",but a surgeon or a cannibal, would view your leg in its
various parts.

>
> They do not offer quarter-chickens comprising thigh and drumstick.
>
> They only offer them disarticulated.
>
> > The bone inside a chicken's lower leg bears a resemblance to a
> > drumstick, hence the name.
> >
> > > The Victorian era was apparently somehow concerned with the legs.
> > > Women were not permitted to lift skirt high enough to reveal ankles.
> >
> > They were concerned with ladies' modesty; but that discretion did
> > not extend to the legs of horses, dogs, men, birds, tarts and dancing
> > girls; all illustrated in paintings, sculpture, photos etc.
>
> It did, however, extend to the legs of tables, which were given something
> like today's leg-warmers. If the body part had to be referred to, in refined
> circles it was called a "limb." But even that was perhaps indelicate.

That is a myth. Read the thread.

https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/victorian-table-legs-covering-myth

Moving on, I have often wondered why Americans ever call any American
period/object/architecture "Victorian".

Janet

[Janet]

In article <fa6083e1-8741-4c2c...@googlegroups.com>,
jerry_f...@yahoo.com says...

In UK, we also refer to turkey shin as the drumstick.

<https://niyis.co.uk/fresh-turkey-drumsticks-whole/?sku=NIY-002028-02
&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIhfubmJ7H8wIVxOd3Ch2BVwQEEAQYAiABEgJDOPD_BwE>

Janet

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Wednesday, October 13, 2021 at 6:55:44 AM UTC-4, Janet wrote:
> In article <c6ad3c1b-efeb-4371...@googlegroups.com>,
> gram...@verizon.net says...
> > On Tuesday, October 12, 2021 at 10:14:04 AM UTC-4, Janet wrote:
> > > In article <drumstick-20...@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>,
> > > r...@zedat.fu-berlin.de says...
> > > > Stefan Ram <r...@zedat.fu-berlin.de> writes:

> > > > >To be most clear, use "whole chicken leg", not "chicken leg",
> > > > >for a whole chicken leg, because "chicken leg" alone can
> > > > >mean just the chicken drumstick.
> > > > >For the same reason, prefer "chicken drumstick" to just
> > > > >"chicken leg" for the drumstick.
> > > A chicken leg has two parts to it, the drumstick and the thigh. The
> > > drumstick is the calf part of the leg, while the thigh is the top part
> > > of the leg.
> > At KFC and Popeye's, the menu item is "leg," not "drumstick."
>
> The above was anatomical. You have a limb which you no doubt identify
> as your "leg",but a surgeon or a cannibal, would view your leg in its
> various parts.

To be sure, it can be difficult to tell what the h*** (as he would put it)
Stefan is talking about, but there's no way "drumstick" would come up
in an anatomical, as opposed to a culinary, context.

[Jerry Friedman]

On Wednesday, October 13, 2021 at 4:55:44 AM UTC-6, Janet wrote:
...

> Moving on, I have often wondered why Americans ever call any American
> period/object/architecture "Victorian".

1) Anglophilia

2) We think architecture, language taboos, etc., were similar here.

--
Jerry Friedman

[Jerry Friedman]

On Wednesday, October 13, 2021 at 4:55:44 AM UTC-6, Janet wrote:

> In article <c6ad3c1b-efeb-4371...@googlegroups.com>,
> gram...@verizon.net says...
> >
> > On Tuesday, October 12, 2021 at 10:14:04 AM UTC-4, Janet wrote:
> > > In article <drumstick-20...@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>,
> > > r...@zedat.fu-berlin.de says...

...

> > > > The Victorian era was apparently somehow concerned with the legs.
> > > > Women were not permitted to lift skirt high enough to reveal ankles.
> > >
> > > They were concerned with ladies' modesty; but that discretion did
> > > not extend to the legs of horses, dogs, men, birds, tarts and dancing
> > > girls; all illustrated in paintings, sculpture, photos etc.
> >
> > It did, however, extend to the legs of tables, which were given something
> > like today's leg-warmers. If the body part had to be referred to, in refined
> > circles it was called a "limb." But even that was perhaps indelicate.

> That is a myth. Read the thread.
>
> https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/victorian-table-legs-covering-myth
>
> Moving on, I have often wondered why Americans ever call any American
> period/object/architecture "Victorian".

"Limb of a table" existed, but as far as I can tell was extremely rare. This one
is from James Hogg (not a former a.u.e. poster), who died two years before
Victoria was crowned.

https://books.google.com/books?id=o4wVAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA205&dq="limb+of+the+table"

Here's one from 1892. A table levitated in a seance often fell hard, which
"on several occasions proved destructive to itself, as the broken limbs of the
table used at Kinsale could testify," according to the Society for
Psychical Research.

https://books.google.com/books?id=yjKAEHUM48AC&pg=PP13

But that's the only GB hit on "limbs of the table" in the 19th century, except
for one in which a British reviewer is glad an American writer on manners
does /not/ recommend that ladies refer to the limbs of a table or the
bosom of a chicken.

https://books.google.com/books?id=HYi4NHaWU1EC&pg=PA439&dq="limbs+of+the+table"

--
Jerry Friedman

[Chrysi Cat]

"Think"?!?

I think it's more a matter of "are aware". One could get even into the
mining states (though I'm not sure one way or the other about the
frontier farming states) and once they got enough money and women, the
locals would start building Eastlake or neo-Gothic, and the taboos would
start coming into play.

Also, yes, Americans today sometimes seem to be actively trying to
reunite our cultures, and even by the end of Victoria's reign true
Anglophobia and the near-instinctive desire to set America apart as "not
English" were fading.

--
Chrysi Cat
1/2 anthrocat, nearly 1/2 anthrofox, all magical
Transgoddess, quick to anger
Call me Chrysi or call me Kat, I'll respond to either!