Homage/Hommage
MC
usually exemplary in its editing: "an homage"
As best I can understand it, there is an English word: homage
And a French word from which it probably derives: hommage
If I am not way off base here, I think BrE users may use either in print
and tend to pronounce the English word homage 'hommidge,' and the French
word hommage 'ohmazh' (a pretty close approximation of the French
pronunication).
AmE users rarely if ever use 'hommage' in print, preferring to stick to
the English word 'homage' -- but they tend to pronounce it 'ohmazh' in
the French manner.
But... that indefinite article threw me. There are those who insist on
using 'an' with 'hotel' -- but it seems a very British thing to me. is
this standard with 'homage' in some circles? Is it archaic, or is it
new? Is it "right" or is it "wrong"?
richard.chambers7
"MC" <copeS...@ca.inter.net> wrote in message
news:copeSPAMZAP-F4A4...@mail.inter.net...
> I'm confused. Today I saw this text in an American magazine that is
> usually exemplary in its editing: "an homage"
>
> As best I can understand it, there is an English word: homage
>
> And a French word from which it probably derives: hommage
>
> If I am not way off base here, I think BrE users may use either in print
> and tend to pronounce the English word homage 'hommidge,' and the French
> word hommage 'ohmazh' (a pretty close approximation of the French
> pronunication).
The Oxford Encyclopedic English Dictionary gives only one spelling, homage.
"Hommage" is incorrect spelling in BrE.
Furthermore, the dictionary gives only one pronunciation, to sound like
"hommidge", rhyming with porridge.
It is a word that is rarely used in everyday speech, so it is difficult to
guage the full range of pronunciations that the word might have in Britain.
I have heard it pronounced as the dictionary says it ought to be pronounced,
and also (possibly) pronounced as "hommage", with the "age" rhyming with
"stage". As far as I can recall, I have never heard it pronounced the French
way in this country.
------------------------------------------------------------
>
> AmE users rarely if ever use 'hommage' in print, preferring to stick to
> the English word 'homage' -- but they tend to pronounce it 'ohmazh' in
> the French manner.
The spelling "hommage" is probably incorrect in AmE too.
I cannot comment on the American pronunciation, because I have never heard
an American use this word.
------------------------------------------------------------
>
> But... that indefinite article threw me. There are those who insist on
> using 'an' with 'hotel' -- but it seems a very British thing to me. is
> this standard with 'homage' in some circles? Is it archaic, or is it
> new? Is it "right" or is it "wrong"?
In BrE, both "a" and "an" are acceptable forms of the indefinite article
preceding a word that starts with "h". In Britain, we just do it whichever
way we feel more comfortable with. Personally, I prefer to use "a" before
most words that start with "h", because this feels more comfortable for my
habits of speech. There are probably more people in Britain using "a" than
using "an". But a sizeable minority in Britain still pronounce "hotel"
without the "h". Such people would normally use "an".
-------------------------------------------------------------
John Dean
There are two particular meanings currently. The traditional one - homage
meaning submission or allegiance, I would expect to be pronounced hommidge
and would not expect the indefinite article. The Duke of Leicester paid
homage to Queen Elizabeth.
In the Arts world, the French-sounding 'omm-arge' is a cutesy term for a
pastiche, parody or rip-off of some-one else's stuff in the guise of paying
tribute. See, for example, IMDB on the Untouchables at
http://uk.imdb.com/Trivia?0094226
<< The gunfight sequence between Ness and Capone's gang in the train station
is an homage to the Odessa Steps sequence in Bronenosets Potemkin (1925). >>
--
John Dean
Oxford
De-frag to reply
Ross Howard
wrote:
>I'm confused. Today I saw this text in an American magazine that is
>usually exemplary in its editing: "an homage"
>[...]
>AmE users rarely if ever use 'hommage' in print, preferring to stick to
>the English word 'homage' -- but they tend to pronounce it 'ohmazh' in
>the French manner.
>
>But... that indefinite article threw me. There are those who insist on
>using 'an' with 'hotel' -- but it seems a very British thing to me. is
>this standard with 'homage' in some circles? Is it archaic, or is it
>new? Is it "right" or is it "wrong"?
Ask Herb.
Ross Howard
--------------------
(Kick ass for e-mail)
Ross Howard
<richard....@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>In BrE, both "a" and "an" are acceptable forms of the indefinite article
>preceding a word that starts with "h".
"An hospital"? "An housewife"? You're forgetting the rider: "an" is
acceptable before an h-initial noun only if the first syllable of the
root word is not stressed, hence "an hotel" but it must be "a
horticultural show," because although the first syllable is not
stressed in "horticulture", in the root word, "horticulture", it is,
so "an" is not an option. Only "a homage" is possible in BrE because
it's pronounced "HOMM-idge" over here.
dcw
Ross Howard <ggu...@yadonkeyhoo.com> wrote:
>"An hospital"? "An housewife"? You're forgetting the rider: "an" is
>acceptable before an h-initial noun only if the first syllable of the
>root word is not stressed, hence "an hotel" but it must be "a
>horticultural show," because although the first syllable is not
>stressed in "horticulture", in the root word, "horticulture", it is,
>so "an" is not an option. Only "a homage" is possible in BrE because
>it's pronounced "HOMM-idge" over here.
You're right about when "an" is used before "h", but wrong about the
reason, as "a history" "an historical" shows. It's "a horticultural"
because of the secondary stress on "hort". "Hotel" may be a special
case, as the "h" used to be silent.
David
Gio
Ross Howard <ggu...@yadonkeyhoo.com> wrote in message
news:3b59cv06t5qnsa9et...@4ax.com...[SNIP]
but it must be "a
> horticultural show," because although the first syllable is not
> stressed in "horticulture", in the root word, "horticulture", it is,
> so "an" is not an option.
"an historical" is perfectly OK even though the root word, "history", bears
stress on the first syllable. I don't really think the root word determines
whether to use "a" or "an".
Gio
Ross Howard
wrote:
Oh. That's true.
Ahem. Well, it's the exception that proves the rule, innit?
dcw
Ross Howard <ggu...@yadonkeyhoo.com> wrote:
>On Fri, 16 May 2003 09:45:39 +0100, "Gio" <G...@nipmac.fsnet.co.uk>
>wrote:
>>"an historical" is perfectly OK even though the root word, "history", bears
>>stress on the first syllable. I don't really think the root word determines
>>whether to use "a" or "an".
>
>Oh. That's true.
>
>Ahem. Well, it's the exception that proves the rule, innit?
Here's another one: "a herald"/"an heraldic".
David
Don Phillipson
news:copeSPAMZAP-F4A4...@mail.inter.net...
> I'm confused. Today I saw this text in an American magazine that is
> usually exemplary in its editing: "an homage" . . .
>
> AmE users rarely if ever use 'hommage' in print, preferring to stick to
> the English word 'homage' -- but they tend to pronounce it 'ohmazh' in
> the French manner.
>
> But... that indefinite article threw me. There are those who insist on
> using 'an' with 'hotel' -- but it seems a very British thing to me. is
> this standard with 'homage' in some circles? Is it archaic, or is it
> new? Is it "right" or is it "wrong"?
The distinction between a and an is a matter of
style rather than grammar: but in this case becomes
contentious because of the internal paradox.
1. Americans generally deplore Britishisms
as pretentious and associated with social class
prejudices which are unamerican.
2. American speech is more influenced (than
British speech) by the university milieu. Thus
American English (as spoken by politicians,
newspapermen, etc.) has adopted academic
words like milieu, homage, festtschrift, cohort
and so on, that are still rare in British English
(or their function performed by nonacademic
words.)
Thus Americans who choose the academic
sense of homage (rather than tribute, testimonial, etc.)
find themselves prompted to write "an homage"
(to clarify its intended meaning) which renders
them guilty of the pretentiousness they otherwise deplore.
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs (Ottawa, Canada)
dphillipson[at]trytel.com
words like
R F
What you say is true of, say, "historic", but not of "homage".
Pronouncing the 'h' in "homage" is simply no more correct in AmE than
pronouncing the 'h' in "hour" or "honest". I'd agree that an unduly
Frenchized pronunciation like /oU'mAZ/ is pretentious, but the usual
AmE pronunciation of "homage" isn't that but /'A,m@dZ/.
Paul Giaccone
> The Oxford Encyclopedic English Dictionary gives only one spelling, homage.
> "Hommage" is incorrect spelling in BrE.
> Furthermore, the dictionary gives only one pronunciation, to sound like
> "hommidge", rhyming with porridge.
"Homage" is assonant with "porridge" - the words do not rhyme.
Jerry Friedman
> usually exemplary in its editing: "an homage"
>
> As best I can understand it, there is an English word: homage
>
> And a French word from which it probably derives: hommage
>
> If I am not way off base here, I think BrE users may use either in print
> and tend to pronounce the English word homage 'hommidge,' and the French
> word hommage 'ohmazh' (a pretty close approximation of the French
> pronunication).
>
> AmE users rarely if ever use 'hommage' in print, preferring to stick to
> the English word 'homage' -- but they tend to pronounce it 'ohmazh' in
> the French manner.
I'm not sure we do. I always thought the correct American
pronounciation was "ommidge" /'A:m@dZ/. MWCD on line prefers that and
gives the same thing with an initial /h/ as the second pronunciation;
AHD on line gives the same two pronunciations but prefers the /h/.
Neither one gives a pronunciation with "zh" at the end, though I'm not
surprised you've heard it from Americans.
> But... that indefinite article threw me. There are those who insist on
> using 'an' with 'hotel' -- but it seems a very British thing to me. is
> this standard with 'homage' in some circles? Is it archaic, or is it
> new? Is it "right" or is it "wrong"?
The American magazine probably used MW's preferred pronunciation, in
which case "an" is the only possibility. I would always write "an
homage" too.
Google says:
"an homage" 41,900
"a homage" 29,000
To try to restrict it to U.S. sites:
"an homage" site:.edu 1,640
"a homage" site:.edu 787
--
Jerry Friedman
MC
jerry_f...@yahoo.com (Jerry Friedman) wrote:
> > AmE users rarely if ever use 'hommage' in print, preferring to stick to
> > the English word 'homage' -- but they tend to pronounce it 'ohmazh' in
> > the French manner.
>
> I'm not sure we do. I always thought the correct American
> pronounciation was "ommidge" /'A:m@dZ/. MWCD on line prefers that and
> gives the same thing with an initial /h/ as the second pronunciation;
Now you mention it, yes... that makes THREE pronunciations...
> AHD on line gives the same two pronunciations but prefers the /h/.
> Neither one gives a pronunciation with "zh" at the end, though I'm not
> surprised you've heard it from Americans.
And when I think about it those US-ians tend to be in the A-a-ahts or
academe...
>
> > But... that indefinite article threw me. There are those who insist on
> > using 'an' with 'hotel' -- but it seems a very British thing to me. is
> > this standard with 'homage' in some circles? Is it archaic, or is it
> > new? Is it "right" or is it "wrong"?
>
> The American magazine probably used MW's preferred pronunciation, in
> which case "an" is the only possibility. I would always write "an
> homage" too.
>
> Google says:
>
> "an homage" 41,900
> "a homage" 29,000
>
> To try to restrict it to U.S. sites:
>
> "an homage" site:.edu 1,640
> "a homage" site:.edu 787
Interesting.
Thanks!