Davies: half B.A. and half B.F.

Marius Hancu

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Jul 26, 2013, 12:08:14 PM7/26/13

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Hello:

---
[Faustina is a mesmerisingly sexual circus girl. Dunny is being explained her nature by a very intelligent member of the troupe]

“You mean Faustina? Ramsay, she is a wonderful creature, but in a way you don’t begin to grasp. She isn’t one of your North American girls, half B.A. and half B.F. and half good decent spud — that’s three halves, but never mind. She is of the earth, and her body is her shop and her temple, and whatever her body tells her is all of the law and the prophets.

Robertson Davies, Fifth Business
---

"half B.A. and half B.F. and half good decent spud": ??

Thanks.
--
Marius Hancu

Tony Cooper

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Jul 26, 2013, 12:32:36 PM7/26/13

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Probably Bad Ass and Best Friend. Dunno "spud".

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando FL

Mark Brader

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Jul 26, 2013, 12:51:16 PM7/26/13

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Marius Hancu:

> >"half B.A. and half B.F. and half good decent spud": ??

Tony Cooper:

> Probably Bad Ass and Best Friend.

Well, it's better than the response I would have made, which was that
I had no idea. But "bad ass" has an American ring to it to me.

> Dunno "spud".

Well, a spud is a potato, of course. I think it's just talking about a
person as being good in a very ordinary way, like a potato as food.
--
Mark Brader | "Forgive me if I misunderstood myself, but
Toronto | I don't think I was arguing in favour of that..."
m...@vex.net | -- Geoff Butler

My text in this article is in the public domain.

Peter T. Daniels

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Jul 26, 2013, 2:00:19 PM7/26/13

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"Bad Ass" in 1908?? If you don't accept that Davies could be retrojecting "queer" in a modern sense into the meaning of its use during his boyhood, then you also can't accept a contemporary slang phrase (did it even exist in 1970 when he wrote it?) being found in a mysterious abbreviation.

Is she old enough to have been to a ladies' college and have a B.A. degree?

"Half good decent spud" ('potato') goes with "she's of the earth."

Note that "all of the law and the prophets" is how Jesus summed up the Scriptures. (Within a couple of centuries the Hebrew Bible would be subdivided into the Law, the Prophets, and the Writings, so this is a specifically Christian reference meaning 'totality'.)

Tony Cooper

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Jul 26, 2013, 2:29:26 PM7/26/13

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On Fri, 26 Jul 2013 11:00:19 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
<gram...@verizon.net> wrote:

>On Friday, July 26, 2013 12:32:36 PM UTC-4, Tony Cooper wrote:
>> On Fri, 26 Jul 2013 09:08:14 -0700 (PDT), Marius Hancu
>>
>> <marius...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> >Hello:
>>
>> >
>>
>> >---
>>
>> >[Faustina is a mesmerisingly sexual circus girl. Dunny is being explained her nature by a very intelligent member of the troupe]
>>
>> >
>>
>> >“You mean Faustina? Ramsay, she is a wonderful creature, but in a way you don’t begin to grasp. She isn’t one of your North American girls, half B.A. and half B.F. and half good decent spud — that’s three halves, but never mind. She is of the earth, and her body is her shop and her temple, and whatever her body tells her is all of the law and the prophets.
>>
>> >
>>
>> >Robertson Davies, Fifth Business
>>
>> >---
>>
>> >
>>
>> >"half B.A. and half B.F. and half good decent spud": ??
>>
>> >
>>
>> >Thanks.
>>
>>
>>
>> Probably Bad Ass and Best Friend. Dunno "spud".
>
>"Bad Ass" in 1908??

I must have missed that. I'm not familiar with the book, and don't
know when it was written or when it was set.

>If you don't accept that Davies could be retrojecting "queer" in a modern
>sense into the meaning of its use during his boyhood, then you also can't
>accept a contemporary slang phrase (did it even exist in 1970 when he
>wrote it?) being found in a mysterious abbreviation.

I can't remember when "bad ass" came into our language. The sentence,
though, leads me think "bad ass" was meant. If you can come up with a
better meaning, go for it.

This source says it originated in 1960-65:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/badass

>
>Is she old enough to have been to a ladies' college and have a B.A. degree?

That one sounds totally wrong to me. Why would anyone say she's half
a degree holder?

Don P

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Jul 26, 2013, 3:23:44 PM7/26/13

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The circus episode is in the 1920s when "badass" had not yet entered N.
American English. Dunstan Ramsay at that date spoke British-model
upper-class slang. Here BA = Bachelor of Arts or Bride Aspirant (both
then current for women students at universities, then numerous) and
BF = Bloody Fool (standard military (upper-class) slang.) Spud has
been rightly interpreted as earthy=peasant-strong and common-sensical.

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa Canada)

Tony Cooper

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Jul 26, 2013, 4:21:45 PM7/26/13

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Bride Aspirant and Bloody Fool make sense to me considering the
period. Helps to know the date of the setting and a little about the
book.

Peter T. Daniels

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Jul 26, 2013, 4:35:02 PM7/26/13

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On Friday, July 26, 2013 2:29:26 PM UTC-4, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Jul 2013 11:00:19 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >On Friday, July 26, 2013 12:32:36 PM UTC-4, Tony Cooper wrote:
> >> On Fri, 26 Jul 2013 09:08:14 -0700 (PDT), Marius Hancu
>

> >> >"half B.A. and half B.F. and half good decent spud": ??
>
> >> >Thanks.
>
> >> Probably Bad Ass and Best Friend. Dunno "spud".
>
> >"Bad Ass" in 1908??
>
> I must have missed that. I'm not familiar with the book, and don't
> know when it was written or when it was set.

And you haven't followed Marius's series of questions about this book?

> >If you don't accept that Davies could be retrojecting "queer" in a modern
> >sense into the meaning of its use during his boyhood, then you also can't
> >accept a contemporary slang phrase (did it even exist in 1970 when he
> >wrote it?) being found in a mysterious abbreviation.
>
> I can't remember when "bad ass" came into our language. The sentence,
> though, leads me think "bad ass" was meant. If you can come up with a
> better meaning, go for it.
>
> This source says it originated in 1960-65:
>
> http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/badass
>
> >Is she old enough to have been to a ladies' college and have a B.A. degree?
>
> That one sounds totally wrong to me. Why would anyone say she's half
> a degree holder?

Half a Vassar Girl, for instance [Don tells us that's correct], and half a
waitress [just a guess at what BF might have implied; Don tells us that isn't
right] and half an earth mother ("spud").

THE COLONEL

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Jul 26, 2013, 4:45:18 PM7/26/13

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Bad actor
Butt fucker

John Dean

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Jul 26, 2013, 6:43:32 PM7/26/13

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"Don P" <ey...@ncf.ca> wrote in message
news:ksuic7$vgh$1...@news.albasani.net...

I'd agree with the Bachelor of Arts / Bloody Fool meanings. "spud", however,
was just a general slang term for a person - especially in the phrase
"decent spud". Partridge has 'spud' as Service slang for a friend, pal or
chum and "mucking-in spud" as best friend.

--
John Dean

Iain Archer

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Jul 26, 2013, 8:25:05 PM7/26/13

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Don P wrote on Fri, 26 Jul 2013 at 15:23:44 GMT

Just on the dating: this part (V. Liesl) seems to take place in Mexico
in 1947 or 1948, where he joins the entourage of the magician Eisengrim.
<http://www.e-reading-lib.com/bookreader.php/79761/Davies_1_Fifth_Busines
s.html>.
--
Iain Archer

Jerry Friedman

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Jul 26, 2013, 11:05:31 PM7/26/13

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On 7/26/13 1:23 PM, Don P wrote:
> On 26-Jul-2013 12:32 PM, Tony Cooper wrote:
>> On Fri, 26 Jul 2013 09:08:14 -0700 (PDT), Marius Hancu
>> <marius...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello:
>>>
>>> ---
>>> [Faustina is a mesmerisingly sexual circus girl. Dunny is being
>>> explained her nature by a very intelligent member of the troupe]

Almost sibylline, in fact.

The corresponding active sentence would be "A very intelligent member of
the troupe is explaining Ramsay Faustina's nature." Native speakers
never (or hardly ever) use "explain" with an indirect object this way,
though the construction is irresistible to speakers of the Romance
languages and probably others.

>>> “You mean Faustina? Ramsay, she is a wonderful creature, but in a way
>>> you don’t begin to grasp. She isn’t one of your North American girls,
>>> half B.A. and half B.F. and half good decent spud — that’s three
>>> halves, but never mind. She is of the earth, and her body is her shop
>>> and her temple, and whatever her body tells her is all of the law and
>>> the prophets.
>>>
>>> Robertson Davies, Fifth Business
>>> ---
>>>
>>> "half B.A. and half B.F. and half good decent spud": ??
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>
>> Probably Bad Ass and Best Friend. Dunno "spud".
>
> The circus episode is in the 1920s

Actually, Ramsay is 50, which I suppose means 1948.

http://www.e-reading-lib.com/chapter.php/79761/46/Davies_1_Fifth_Business.html

> when "badass" had not yet entered N. American English.

That's still true.

> Dunstan Ramsay at that date spoke British-model upper-class slang.

The speaker is Liesl. Just to help out, Ramsay says at the end of the
chapter that he's cleaned up her English. However, it seems in
character for her to know the kind of slang you mention below.

> Here BA = Bachelor of Arts or Bride Aspirant (both
> then current for women students at universities, then numerous) and
> BF = Bloody Fool (standard military (upper-class) slang.)

Very interesting. I never had a clue.

> Spud has
> been rightly interpreted as earthy=peasant-strong and common-sensical.

And wholesome and dull and ugly. (But tasty when treated properly?)

--
Jerry Friedman

Tony Cooper

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Jul 26, 2013, 11:55:30 PM7/26/13

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There's gotta be a list somewhere of the 10 Books I Never Want to Read
based on aue posts. This one shot to the top of the list very
quickly.

John Holmes

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Jul 27, 2013, 2:21:08 AM7/27/13

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Tony Cooper wrote:
>
> There's gotta be a list somewhere of the 10 Books I Never Want to Read
> based on aue posts. This one shot to the top of the list very
> quickly.

Marius sure knows how to find 'em. My list is at least a dozen longer than
it was.

--
Regards
John
for mail: my initials plus a u e
at tpg dot com dot au

Marius Hancu

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Jul 29, 2013, 9:24:37 AM7/29/13

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Looks good.

Thanks, everyone.
--
Marius Hancu