Do the British use the word "dispelled" differently than the Yanks?

[Misha]

This is the headline:
"Manhunt for Suspected James Lee Dimaggio Dispelled in Idaho Gunfire"

In American English, you don't normally "dispell" a manhunt, do you?

[Misha]

On Sun, 11 Aug 2013 13:09:04 +0000, Misha wrote:

> "Manhunt for Suspected James Lee Dimaggio Dispelled in Idaho Gunfire"
>
> In American English, you don't normally "dispell" a manhunt, do you?

Ooooops. Forgot the url.
http://guardianlv.com/2013/08/manhunt-for-suspected-james-lee-dimaggio-dispelled-in-idaho-gunfire/

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

On 11 Aug 2013 13:24:22 GMT, Misha <Mi...@invalid.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 11 Aug 2013 13:09:04 +0000, Misha wrote:
>
>> "Manhunt for Suspected James Lee Dimaggio Dispelled in Idaho Gunfire"
>>
>> In American English, you don't normally "dispell" a manhunt, do you?
>

I wouldn't have thought so.

>Ooooops. Forgot the url.
>http://guardianlv.com/2013/08/manhunt-for-suspected-james-lee-dimaggio-dispelled-in-idaho-gunfire/

That is the website of the Las Vegas Guardian Express in the USA.

--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.english.usage)

[John Briggs]

It's an inept play on words (typical of tabloid headlines): they wanted
a word beginning "Di..." to play on "Dimaggio" and just picked the wrong
one.
--
John Briggs

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

Also, as this appears to be a US newspaper (it's not The Guardian of
London, formerly of Manchester), so it's not clear what, if anything,
it has to do with the way "the British" use words.


--
athel

[John Briggs]

Well, where is Misha based?
--
John Briggs

[Horace LaBadie]

In article <tq7f09h8ep6f9b81m...@4ax.com>,

What happens in Las Vegas English stays in Las Vegas English.

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

I don't know. Judging by the Message-ID, Misha uses a usenet server in
Sweden:
http://www.usenet4all.se/

Which proves nothing.

--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

[John Briggs]

But it suggests that Misha may be more familiar with British English and
is contrasting it with this example of American English (or idiocy, in
this case.)
--
John Briggs

[Bill McCray]

"Dispatched" would be fairly normal in the US.

Bill in Kentucky

[Tony Cooper]

It's not a newspaper. It started out to be a local paper for the Las
Vegas, Nevada area, but is now an online newsmagazine. The name is
actually "The Guardian Express. Most of the stuff in it is picked up
from other sources rather than being created by their own staff.

They apparently pick up a news story, re-write enough to not need
attribution, and create their own headlines.

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando FL

[Whiskers]

I wonder if English is not that writer's first language?

The UK publication has a reputation for gaffs and mis-spelling, so much so
that "Private Eye" referred to it as "The Grauniad" and the paper itself
has a regular "corrections" column - which can sometimes be hilarious.

,----
| The Collaborative International Dictionary of English v.0.48 (gcide)
| Dispel Dis*pel", v. t. [imp. & p. p. Dispelled; p. pr. & vb.
| n. Dispelling.] [L. dispellere; dis- + pellere to push,
| drive. See Pulse a beating.]
| To drive away by scattering, or so to cause to vanish; to
| clear away; to banish; to dissipate; as, to dispel a cloud,
| vapors, cares, doubts, illusions.
| [1913 Webster]
`----

If Mr Dimaggio really has been "scattered" then there must have been a
*lot* of gunfire.

--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~

[Peter Percival]

Really, "Manhunt for Suspected James Lee Dimaggio Dispatched in Idaho
Gunfire"? I could understand "Suspect James Lee Dimaggio Dispatched in
Idaho Gunfire".

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

Well, they've certainly done a good job this time of creating a headline
that has attracted attention.

[John Briggs]

Wrong Guardian.

It wasn't Dimmaggio who was "dispelled", but the Manhunt. What we want
is a word for "culminates in".
--
John Briggs

[Steve Hayes]

Also not in my English.

And I can't think what it mean in that conext -- abandoned? No, it would
surely be intensified after gunfire.


--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

[Steve Hayes]

On Sun, 11 Aug 2013 13:08:27 -0400, Tony Cooper <tonyco...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>It's not a newspaper. It started out to be a local paper for the Las
>Vegas, Nevada area, but is now an online newsmagazine. The name is
>actually "The Guardian Express. Most of the stuff in it is picked up
>from other sources rather than being created by their own staff.

Oh them...

They are a notorious source of disinformation.

They've reported Nelson Mandela's death three times in the last two months.

[Hans Aberg]

Perhaps it should have been "disbanded".

[John Briggs]

Or "dissipated". I think they were looking for the verb for "dénouement"...
--
John Briggs

[micky]

On 11 Aug 2013 13:24:22 GMT, Misha <Mi...@invalid.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 11 Aug 2013 13:09:04 +0000, Misha wrote:
>
>> "Manhunt for Suspected James Lee Dimaggio Dispelled in Idaho Gunfire"
>>
>> In American English, you don't normally "dispell" a manhunt, do you?

No. Maybe they meant disbanded

Isn't this the one where the man they were hunting for was killed?
That means it's too late to hunt for him some more.

[John Briggs]

On 11/08/2013 20:21, micky wrote:
> On 11 Aug 2013 13:24:22 GMT, Misha <Mi...@invalid.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, 11 Aug 2013 13:09:04 +0000, Misha wrote:
>>
>>> "Manhunt for Suspected James Lee Dimaggio Dispelled in Idaho Gunfire"
>>>
>>> In American English, you don't normally "dispell" a manhunt, do you?
>
> No. Maybe they meant disbanded
>
> Isn't this the one where the man they were hunting for was killed?
> That means it's too late to hunt for him some more.

Maybe so, but that isn't what "dispelled" means. They also didn't say
why he was suspected.
--
John Briggs

[Skitt]

Whiskers wrote:

> Misha wrote:
>> Misha wrote:

>>> "Manhunt for Suspected James Lee Dimaggio Dispelled in Idaho Gunfire"
>>>
>>> In American English, you don't normally "dispell" a manhunt, do you?
>>
>> Ooooops. Forgot the url.
>> http://guardianlv.com/2013/08/manhunt-for-suspected-james-lee-dimaggio-dispelled-in-idaho-gunfire/
>
> I wonder if English is not that writer's first language?
>
> The UK publication has a reputation for gaffs and mis-spelling, so much so
> that "Private Eye" referred to it as "The Grauniad" and the paper itself
> has a regular "corrections" column - which can sometimes be hilarious.

Gaffs, eh? That's a variant (AmE only) of gaffes, innit?

--
Skitt (SF Bay Area)
http://home.comcast.net/~skitt99/main.html

[Hans Aberg]

A correct word might be "terminate" as it was cut short, but not
necessarily abnormally, and then the headline writer made a failed
twist. Synonyms starting with "di-" might be "dispense", "discontinue",
"dissolve", "disperse", "disestablish".

[micky]

On Sun, 11 Aug 2013 20:52:17 +0100, John Briggs
<john.b...@ntlworld.com> wrote:

>On 11/08/2013 20:21, micky wrote:
>> On 11 Aug 2013 13:24:22 GMT, Misha <Mi...@invalid.com> wrote:
>>> On Sun, 11 Aug 2013 13:09:04 +0000, Misha wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Manhunt for Suspected James Lee Dimaggio Dispelled in Idaho Gunfire"
>>>>
>>>> In American English, you don't normally "dispell" a manhunt, do you?
>>
>> No. Maybe they meant disbanded
>>
>> Isn't this the one where the man they were hunting for was killed?
>> That means it's too late to hunt for him some more.
>
>Maybe so, but that isn't what "dispelled" means.

Right. I agreed that dispelled was the wrong word.

> They also didn't say
>why he was suspected.

I guess you had to read the story yesterday.

Although I think that he's on a six-day camping trip with the daughter
is a big reason he was suspected.

[R H Draney]

John Briggs filted:

Or they picked what they thought was the right one and it was changed by their
dispell checker....r


--
Me? Sarcastic?
Yeah, right.

[Bill McCray]

Sorry. I was thinking about him, not the hunt.

Bill in Kentucky

[Whiskers]

With a fine tradition to emulate, then.

> It wasn't Dimmaggio who was "dispelled", but the Manhunt. What we want
> is a word for "culminates in".

Even worse if the entire manhunt has vanished like a cloud. Perhaps a
headline such as "Manhunt culminates in death of abductor" or "kidnapper
killed in manhunt climax" would have been better. Although we wouldn't be
discussing it ...

[Whiskers]

A slip in thyme, saves nine (fish, that is).

[Leslie Danks]

How about "Suspect James Lee Dimaggio's Hopes of Escape Dispelled in Idaho
Manhunt Gunfire"

--
Les (BrE)
I never promised you a rose, Garden.

[John Briggs]

No, the headline read "Manhunt for Suspected James Lee Dimaggio..."
whereas it should have read "Manhunt for *Suspect* James Lee
Dimaggio..." After all, he wasn't suspected of being James Lee Dimaggio
- that was known for certain
--
John Briggs

[micky]

On Sun, 11 Aug 2013 23:06:42 +0100, John Briggs

Oh, yeah, you're right. I missed that entirely, twice. :-(

[Peter T. Daniels]

It wasn't exactly a new story.

[Peter T. Daniels]

Of course. Don't you dispatch a squad of officers to hunt down a fugitive?

[John Briggs]

"Manhunt for Suspected James Lee Dimaggio..." He wasn't suspected of
being James Lee Dimaggio - that was known for certain.
--
John Briggs

[Peter Moylan]

On 12/08/13 02:55, John Briggs wrote:
> On 11/08/2013 17:15, Peter Duncanson [BrE] wrote:
>> On Sun, 11 Aug 2013 16:21:28 +0100, John Briggs
>> <john.b...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 11/08/2013 16:18, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:

>>>> On 2013-08-11 14:30:55 +0000, John Briggs said:
>>>>> On 11/08/2013 14:24, Misha wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 11 Aug 2013 13:09:04 +0000, Misha wrote:
>>>>>>> "Manhunt for Suspected James Lee Dimaggio Dispelled in Idaho
>>>>>>> Gunfire"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In American English, you don't normally "dispell" a manhunt, do you?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ooooops. Forgot the url.
>>>>>> http://guardianlv.com/2013/08/manhunt-for-suspected-james-lee-dimaggio-dispelled-in-idaho-gunfire/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> It's an inept play on words (typical of tabloid headlines): they
>>>>> wanted a word beginning "Di..." to play on "Dimaggio" and just picked
>>>>> the wrong one.
>>>>

>>>> Also, as this appears to be a US newspaper (it's not The Guardian of
>>>> London, formerly of Manchester), so it's not clear what, if
>>>> anything, it
>>>> has to do with the way "the British" use words.
>>>

>>> Well, where is Misha based?
>>
>> I don't know. Judging by the Message-ID, Misha uses a usenet server in
>> Sweden:
>> http://www.usenet4all.se/
>>
>> Which proves nothing.
>
> But it suggests that Misha may be more familiar with British English and
> is contrasting it with this example of American English (or idiocy, in
> this case.)

Misha said "differently than", which is pure AmE. But a US poster would
not have said "Yanks".

Also, there is a subtle difference between
Do the British use the word "dispelled" differently from the Yanks?
and
Do the Yanks use the word "dispelled" differently from the British?

I don't know whether this difference would be apparent to a non-native
speaker of English, but I suspect that Misha actually meant the second.

--
Peter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org
For an e-mail address, see my web page.

[Opinicus]

Not necessarily. He could have been a Lee Dimaggio suspected of being
a James...

--
Bob
www.kanyak.com

[Dr Nick]

Where have you gone James Lee Dimaggio?

[THE COLONEL]

"Misha" <Mi...@invalid.com> wrote in message
news:52078cef$0$95920$afc3...@read01.usenet4all.se...
> This is the headline:

> "Manhunt for Suspected James Lee Dimaggio Dispelled in Idaho Gunfire"
>
> In American English, you don't normally "dispell" a manhunt, do you?

>

Misha's a nice name for a girl, but I think it's a little queer for a man.

[Mr Pumpov]

THE COLONEL wrote:

> Misha's a nice name for a girl, but I think it's a little queer for a
> man.

You are partially right, dear COLONEL - but only in case of a real queer:
Mr. Gorbachev.

--
Mr. Pumpov

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Monday, August 12, 2013 10:50:43 AM UTC-4, THE COLONEL wrote:

> Misha's a nice name for a girl, but I think it's a little queer for a man.

That flaming ballet-dancer Baryshnikov never managed to snag a lady, eh?

[Curlytop]

Misha set the following eddies spiralling through the space-time continuum:

> This is the headline:
> "Manhunt for Suspected James Lee Dimaggio Dispelled in Idaho Gunfire"
>
> In American English, you don't normally "dispell" a manhunt, do you?

Never heard of it down yere in Kairdiff. The impression I get is of the
group that had come together to hunt for Mr. Dimaggio was now breaking up,
in which case "dispersed" would have been a better word. Did the headline
writer pick the wrong worm from the spell chucker?
--
ξ: ) Proud to be curly

Interchange the alphabetic letter groups to reply

[Mike L]

These days the gaff is illegal in civilised countries.

I think all the quality papers have some sort of corrections feature
these days.

--
Mike.

[John Varela]

They suspected he was James Lee DiMaggio so they scattered.

--
John Varela

[Misha]

On Sun, 11 Aug 2013 16:21:28 +0100, John Briggs wrote:

> Well, where is Misha based?

USA.
I was wholly incorrect in assuming the "Guardian" article was
British in origin.
Mea culpa.

[Joe Fineman]

"THE COLONEL" <dog...@caribbeancity.nl> writes:

> Misha's a nice name for a girl, but I think it's a little queer for a
> man.

In Russian, "Misha" is the usual diminutive of "Mikhail".
Misha : Mikhail :: Mike : Michael. Nothing queer about it.

It *is* rather an oddity, in that in Russian, nouns ending in -a are
regularly feminine. However, diminutives of masculine personal names
are a systematic exception. My name gets the same treatment:
Iosya : Iosif :: Joe : Joseph.

--
--- Joe Fineman jo...@verizon.net

||: A man does not boast that his pornography is more expensive :||
||: than other men's. :||

[Steve Hayes]

The quality of the Guardian Express leaves a great deal to be desired, and the
idea of a corrections feature would be anathema to them.


--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

On Tue, 13 Aug 2013 03:59:41 +0000 (UTC), Lewis
<g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

>In message <20130812200052.332d...@gmail.com>

> Mr Pumpov <dimap...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> THE COLONEL wrote:
>
>>> Misha's a nice name for a girl, but I think it's a little queer for a
>>> man.
>

>Once again, I am reminded of why "the Colonel" is in the killfile.

>
>> You are partially right, dear COLONEL - but only in case of a real queer:
>> Mr. Gorbachev.
>

>Misha is a man's name, and is short fo Mikhail. Mikhail Beryshnakov is
>"Misha". I don't know if Gorby used it as well, but chances are very
>good his friends and family, at least, called him Misha.

Misha, varous spellings, can be found as a girl's as well as a boy's
name in the UK. The origins are various. In some cases the male name
Misha, the short form of Mikhail, has been adopted as a female name.

This from Yahoo! UK & Ireland gives a brief idea of the varied
situation:
http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110924150246AA7O4Gi

RachaelLeigh

Is Misha a girls or boys name?

My name is Micha and I'm a girl but pronounced like Me-sha and even
though I've heard people like Misha Barton and there is a girl name
Misha on this years X Factor and I was named after the singer Mica
Paris (pronounced like Misha even though her real name is Michelle
my mum named me after her).

But I was just looking around at my name on yahoo and lots of people
say its a boys name....and I've found it in baby name books or
internet baby naming under just girls (and not girls) before but
I've also found it under just boys (not girls)

And before anybody goes to point out Rachael Leigh is my middle
name.
I don't care what sex name it is but I'm just curious :)

2 years ago

Koko Koko
Best Answer - Chosen by Voters [there was just one vote!]
Its probably more common for girls but there are boys named misha
too, there is an actor on the show 'supernatural' of that name.

2 years ago


--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.english.usage)

[THE COLONEL]

Naturally this demonstrates that Europe is queer as hell.
End of Story.

[THE COLONEL]

"Lewis" <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> blabbered in message
news:slrnl0jbpc....@mbp55.local...

> Once again, I am reminded of why "the Colonel" is in the killfile.

> Misha is a man's name, and is short fo Mikhail. Mikhail Beryshnakov is
> "Misha". I don't know if Gorby used it as well, but chances are very
> good his friends and family, at least, called him Misha.

Uh....yes.....well, thank you for that, Lewis. And I believe it's past yer
beddy-by time.

[John Varela]

On Tue, 13 Aug 2013 09:36:43 UTC, "Peter Duncanson [BrE]"
<ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:

>
> On Tue, 13 Aug 2013 03:59:41 +0000 (UTC), Lewis
> <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>
> >
> >Misha is a man's name, and is short fo Mikhail. Mikhail Beryshnakov is
> >"Misha". I don't know if Gorby used it as well, but chances are very
> >good his friends and family, at least, called him Misha.
>
> Misha, varous spellings, can be found as a girl's as well as a boy's
> name in the UK. The origins are various. In some cases the male name
> Misha, the short form of Mikhail, has been adopted as a female name.

A woman of my acquaintance immigrated to the US from Poland. Her
name is Maria; her nickname is Misia, pronounced Misha. I haven't
pressed her on the subject, but infer that this is commonplace.

--
John Varela

[Anton Shepelev]

John Varela:

> > Misha, varous spellings, can be found as a
> > girl's as well as a boy's name in the UK. The
> > origins are various. In some cases the male
> > name Misha, the short form of Mikhail, has been
> > adopted as a female name.
>
> A woman of my acquaintance immigrated to the US
> from Poland. Her name is Maria; her nickname is
> Misia, pronounced Misha. I haven't pressed her on
> the subject, but infer that this is commonplace.

Sounds illogical. In Russian Michail would be Misha
and Maria would be Masha. Did you not mishear?

--
() ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail
/\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 4:05:37 AM UTC-4, Anton Shepelev wrote:
> John Varela:

> > A woman of my acquaintance immigrated to the US
> > from Poland. Her name is Maria; her nickname is
> > Misia, pronounced Misha. I haven't pressed her on
> > the subject, but infer that this is commonplace.
>
> Sounds illogical. In Russian Michail would be Misha
> and Maria would be Masha. Did you not mishear?

Do Russians still believe that Poland is part of Russia?

[Bill McCray]

On 8/14/2013 4:05 AM, Anton Shepelev wrote:
> John Varela:
>
>>> Misha, varous spellings, can be found as a
>>> girl's as well as a boy's name in the UK. The
>>> origins are various. In some cases the male
>>> name Misha, the short form of Mikhail, has been
>>> adopted as a female name.
>>
>> A woman of my acquaintance immigrated to the US
>> from Poland. Her name is Maria; her nickname is
>> Misia, pronounced Misha. I haven't pressed her on
>> the subject, but infer that this is commonplace.
>
> Sounds illogical. In Russian Michail would be Misha
> and Maria would be Masha. Did you not mishear?

A few years ago, we took a coach tour that visited Moscow and St.
Petersburg. Our tour director was from New Zealand, so when he
introduced our local guide in St. Petersburg as being Masha, we heard
"Marcia" (since he would have pronounced them alike). I was only when I
asked her how to spell it that I found out the misunderstanding. So she
would have been Maria in English?

Bill in Kentucky

[Anton Shepelev]

Bill McCray:

> > > A woman of my acquaintance immigrated to the

> > > US from Poland. Her name is Maria; her nick-

> > > name is Misia, pronounced Misha. I haven't
> > > pressed her on the subject, but infer that
> > > this is commonplace.
> >
> > Sounds illogical. In Russian Michail would be
> > Misha and Maria would be Masha. Did you not
> > mishear?
>
> A few years ago, we took a coach tour that visited
> Moscow and St. Petersburg. Our tour director was
> from New Zealand, so when he introduced our local
> guide in St. Petersburg as being Masha, we heard
> "Marcia" (since he would have pronounced them
> alike). I was only when I asked her how to spell
> it that I found out the misunderstanding. So she
> would have been Maria in English?

Most certainly, just as Sasha would have been
Alexand(e)r -- from Alek + Sander and omitting Alek.
Those are diminutive forms of the corresponding
names. With my name it is Antosha, but don't get
the wrong impression that all Russian names end with
-sha in the diminutive.

[Peter Young]

ObAUE: If a diminutive is longer than the original, is it still a
diminutive?

Peter.

--
Peter Young, (BrE, RP), Consultant Anaesthetist, 1975-2004.
(US equivalent: Certified Anesthesiologist)
Cheltenham and Gloucester, UK. Now happily retired.
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk

[Tony Cooper]

One of my grandsons is an Anton. His mother, born in Izhevsk
(Russia), often calls him "Tosh". That doesn't make sense to most
Americans because they don't know that an Anton can be an Antosha.

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando FL

[John Briggs]

Funnily enough, that isn't what diminutive means... (We won't go into
double diminutive!)

That's why it's convenient to use 'hypocoristic form' instead :-)
--
John Briggs

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

Is there a diminutive of 'hypocoristic'?

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

"Tosh" is a nickname that, IME, was used in Britain. It may still be in
use. There are various suggestions as to its origin. Some are mentioned
here:
http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=23506

One poster comments:

In the N/E of England this name is frequently given to anyone named
Tony, Anthony.

[John Briggs]

It would be longer...

The point is that diminutive doesn't mean 'short for'.
--
John Briggs

[Richard Robinson]

Peter Duncanson [BrE] said:
> On Wed, 14 Aug 2013 10:12:22 -0400, Tony Cooper

>>On Wed, 14 Aug 2013 17:46:13 +0400, Anton Shepelev

It must date from the days when the Russian army marched through Newcastle
with snow on its boots ?


--
Richard Robinson
"The whole plan hinged upon the natural curiosity of potatoes" - S. Lem

My email address is at http://www.qualmograph.org.uk/contact.html

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

Ah, yes. Those were the days.

[Peter Young]

Well, I have been educated.

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

On Wed, 14 Aug 2013 16:15:17 +0100, Peter Young <pny...@ormail.co.uk>

Peterkins is a diminutive of Peter.

From a Peter.

[R H Draney]

Peter Duncanson [BrE]" <ma...@peterduncanson.net> filted:

"Nick"....

Nick Rivers: I'm pleased to meet you. My name's Nick.
Hillary Flammond: Nick? What does that mean?
Nick Rivers: Oh, nothing. My dad thought of it while he was shaving.

....r


--
Me? Sarcastic?
Yeah, right.

[James Hogg]

Maybe that's when it becomes hypocoristic.

--
James

[Anton Shepelev]

John Briggs:

> > > > Most certainly, just as Sasha would have
> > > > been Alexand(e)r -- from Alek + Sander and
> > > > omitting Alek. Those are diminutive forms
> > > > of the corresponding names. With my name it

> > > > is Antosha, but don't get the wrong impres-

> > > > sion that all Russian names end with -sha in
> > > > the diminutive.
> > >
> > > ObAUE: If a diminutive is longer than the
> > > original, is it still a diminutive?
> >
> > Funnily enough, that isn't what diminutive
> > means... (We won't go into double diminutive!)
>
> That's why it's convenient to use 'hypocoristic
> form' instead :-)

Ah, that's the word I needed. The exact Russian
term is уменьшительно-ласкательный, or diminutive-
hypocristic.

[Anton Shepelev]

Peter Duncanson:

> Peterkins is a diminutive of Peter.

Lest the thread peter our, I would suggest pebble,
because Peter is stone.

[Skitt]

Peter Young wrote:

Absolutely. Every diminutive of a Latvian name, and we have plenty of
those, is longer than the original name. The diminutive denotation does
not apply to the name -- it applies to the person.

--
Skitt (SF Bay Area)
AUE's token Latvian

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

On Wed, 14 Aug 2013 18:36:15 +0200, James Hogg <Jas....@gOUTmail.com>
wrote:

The OED has the noun "hypocorism". It is marked "rare". Perhaps it is
due for revival.

It has the advantage that it is shorter than "hypocoristic".

[Dr Nick]

I'm reminded of Jennings' classmate Temple, known as "Bod".

[John Briggs]

That part of the OED hasn't been revised since 1899. The OED has hired
an onomast to try and sort out these embarrassments, but she can't be
everywhere.

> It has the advantage that it is shorter than "hypocoristic".

Wikipedia treats hypocoristic as a noun (which is a trifle perverse),
but onomasts (Americans tend to prefer 'onomastician') use it as an
adjective. As stated, hypocorism is a noun, and can both used both for
the phenomenon and for examples of it.
--
John Briggs

[Mike L]

On Wed, 14 Aug 2013 15:51:49 +0100, John Briggs
<john.b...@ntlworld.com> wrote:

>On 14/08/2013 15:22, Peter Duncanson [BrE] wrote:

[...]

>>
>> Is there a diminutive of 'hypocoristic'?
>
>It would be longer...

I like "hyperhypocoristic".

>
>The point is that diminutive doesn't mean 'short for'.

That might be "hypocor."

--

Mike.

[Mike L]

Less scary, though, than the nuns with hairy legs.

--
Mike.

[John Varela]

On Wed, 14 Aug 2013 08:05:37 UTC, Anton Shepelev
<anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> wrote:

> John Varela:
>
> > > Misha, varous spellings, can be found as a
> > > girl's as well as a boy's name in the UK. The
> > > origins are various. In some cases the male
> > > name Misha, the short form of Mikhail, has been
> > > adopted as a female name.
> >
> > A woman of my acquaintance immigrated to the US
> > from Poland. Her name is Maria; her nickname is
> > Misia, pronounced Misha. I haven't pressed her on
> > the subject, but infer that this is commonplace.
>
> Sounds illogical. In Russian Michail would be Misha
> and Maria would be Masha. Did you not mishear?

No. She spells her name Misia in emails. Recall she is Polish, not
Russian. And she may be a generation older than you -- I'd guess she
is at least 60, maybe pushing 70. (Now that I am myself pushing 80
almost everyone looks young to me.)

--
John Varela

[John Varela]

On Wed, 14 Aug 2013 14:02:58 UTC, Peter Young <pny...@ormail.co.uk>
wrote:

> ObAUE: If a diminutive is longer than the original, is it still a
> diminutive?

Many diminutives in English are longer than the originals: Joe/Joey,
John/Johnny, Mary/Molly, Ann/Annie, etc.

--
John Varela

[Anton Shepelev]

John Varela:

> > > A woman of my acquaintance immigrated to the US
> > > from Poland. Her name is Maria; her nickname is
> > > Misia, pronounced Misha. I haven't pressed her on
> > > the subject, but infer that this is commonplace.
> >

> > ounds illogical. In Russian Michail would be Misha
> > and Maria would be Masha. Did you not mishear?
>
> No. She spells her name Misia in emails. Recall she
> is Polish, not Russian. And she may be a generation
> older than you -- I'd guess she is at least 60, maybe
> pushing 70.
>

I don't see what it can have to do with our relative
ages -- it's probably just a feature of Polish.

> (Now that I am myself pushing 80 almost everyone looks
> young to me.)

Oh, then I am just a toddler. There are so many old peo-
ple here that I think Don Phillipson must start the
Usenet History Project :-)

[Tony Cooper]

On 14 Aug 2013 20:43:40 GMT, "John Varela" <newl...@verizon.net>
wrote:

I am pushing 76, and it's pushing back.

[John Briggs]

There was a young man of Peru,
Whose limericks stopped at line two.
--
John Briggs

[R H Draney]

John Varela filted:

Peter/My main homey Pete what it is bro, David/Dave-a-rooney-o, Jeffrey/The
Jeffinator....r

[Robert Bannister]

On 14/08/13 8:29 PM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 4:05:37 AM UTC-4, Anton Shepelev wrote:
>> John Varela:

>
>>> A woman of my acquaintance immigrated to the US
>>> from Poland. Her name is Maria; her nickname is
>>> Misia, pronounced Misha. I haven't pressed her on
>>> the subject, but infer that this is commonplace.
>>
>> Sounds illogical. In Russian Michail would be Misha
>> and Maria would be Masha. Did you not mishear?
>

> Do Russians still believe that Poland is part of Russia?
>

Non sequitur. You do know that the two languages are closely related? I
have known two Polish women called "Masha" - they probably didn't spell
it that way, but that was the sound.

--
Robert Bannister

[Robert Bannister]

On 14/08/13 10:02 PM, Peter Young wrote:
> On 14 Aug 2013 Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> wrote:
>
>> Bill McCray:

>
>>>>> A woman of my acquaintance immigrated to the

>>>>> US from Poland. Her name is Maria; her nick-

>>>>> name is Misia, pronounced Misha. I haven't
>>>>> pressed her on the subject, but infer that
>>>>> this is commonplace.
>>>>
>>>> Sounds illogical. In Russian Michail would be
>>>> Misha and Maria would be Masha. Did you not
>>>> mishear?
>>>

>>> A few years ago, we took a coach tour that visited
>>> Moscow and St. Petersburg. Our tour director was
>>> from New Zealand, so when he introduced our local
>>> guide in St. Petersburg as being Masha, we heard
>>> "Marcia" (since he would have pronounced them
>>> alike). I was only when I asked her how to spell
>>> it that I found out the misunderstanding. So she
>>> would have been Maria in English?
>
>> Most certainly, just as Sasha would have been
>> Alexand(e)r -- from Alek + Sander and omitting Alek.
>> Those are diminutive forms of the corresponding
>> names. With my name it is Antosha, but don't get
>> the wrong impression that all Russian names end with
>> -sha in the diminutive.
>

> ObAUE: If a diminutive is longer than the original, is it still a
> diminutive?

Is Johnny a diminutive of John? Don't take "diminutive" too literally.
--
Robert Bannister

[Robert Bannister]

On 15/08/13 1:01 AM, Anton Shepelev wrote:
> Peter Duncanson:
>
>> Peterkins is a diminutive of Peter.
>
> Lest the thread peter our, I would suggest pebble,
> because Peter is stone.
>

That rocks.
--
Robert Bannister

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 7:42:55 PM UTC-4, Robert Bannister wrote:
> On 14/08/13 8:29 PM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 4:05:37 AM UTC-4, Anton Shepelev wrote:
> >> John Varela:
>
> >>> A woman of my acquaintance immigrated to the US
> >>> from Poland. Her name is Maria; her nickname is
> >>> Misia, pronounced Misha. I haven't pressed her on
> >>> the subject, but infer that this is commonplace.
>
> >> Sounds illogical. In Russian Michail would be Misha
> >> and Maria would be Masha. Did you not mishear?
>
> > Do Russians still believe that Poland is part of Russia?
>
> Non sequitur. You do know that the two languages are closely related? I

Not all that closely. Russian is East Slavic, along with Ukrainian and
Belarusian, while Polish is West Slavic, along with Czech, Slovak,
Kashubian, Wendish, and the extinct Polabian. (The rest -- Bulgarian
and the five languages of former Yugoslavia -- are South Slavic.)

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

I think we can take "diminutive" literally if we understand it as
applying to the degree of formality of the version of the name.

Thus for somone who is officially Peter, the versions Pete, Petey, and
Peterkins have diminished formality, are less formal than, Peter.

[Mr Pounder]

"THE COLONEL" <dog...@caribbeancity.nl> wrote in message
news:kudm18$qf1$3...@dont-email.me...
> Naturally this demonstrates that Europe is queer as hell.
> End of Story.

What kind of name is Chuck or Buddy?

[THE COLONEL]

"Mr Pounder" <MrPo...@RationalThought.com> wrote in message
news:kuik9f$h0n$1...@dont-email.me...

At least they are manly names, ya damn fool.

[THE COLONEL]

"Tony Cooper" <tonyco...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:2stn091uquiom0o05...@4ax.com...

I hope you have life insurance. Funerals are very expensive.

[Anton Shepelev]

Mr Pounder:

> What kind of name is Chuck or Buddy?

Rocking names: Buddy Holly, Buddy (and Ella) Johnson,
Buddy Guy (who played guitar on Big Mama Thornton's Hound
Dog for Peacock in 1952 and is still rocking), Chuck
Berry (still rocking).

[Mike L]

Then let's wrap it up. I win.

--
Mike.

[Joe Fineman]

"Mr Pounder" <MrPo...@RationalThought.com> writes:

> What kind of name is Chuck or Buddy?

Chuck, at least some of the time, stands in for Charles.
--
--- Joe Fineman jo...@verizon.net

||: Indecision becomes decision with time. :||

[Peter Young]

On 16 Aug 2013 Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

> In message <3de91c7b5...@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk>
> Peter Young <pny...@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 14 Aug 2013 Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> wrote:

>>> Bill McCray:

>>>>>> A woman of my acquaintance immigrated to the

>>>>>> US from Poland. Her name is Maria; her nick-

>>>>>> name is Misia, pronounced Misha. I haven't
>>>>>> pressed her on the subject, but infer that
>>>>>> this is commonplace.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sounds illogical. In Russian Michail would be
>>>>> Misha and Maria would be Masha. Did you not
>>>>> mishear?
>>>>

>>>> A few years ago, we took a coach tour that visited
>>>> Moscow and St. Petersburg. Our tour director was
>>>> from New Zealand, so when he introduced our local
>>>> guide in St. Petersburg as being Masha, we heard
>>>> "Marcia" (since he would have pronounced them
>>>> alike). I was only when I asked her how to spell
>>>> it that I found out the misunderstanding. So she
>>>> would have been Maria in English?

>>> Most certainly, just as Sasha would have been
>>> Alexand(e)r -- from Alek + Sander and omitting Alek.
>>> Those are diminutive forms of the corresponding
>>> names. With my name it is Antosha, but don't get
>>> the wrong impression that all Russian names end with
>>> -sha in the diminutive.

>> ObAUE: If a diminutive is longer than the original, is it still a
>> diminutive?

> Yes.

> ?? Where you being serious?

Serious, but it also seems ignorant.

Peter.

--
Peter Young, (BrE, RP), Consultant Anaesthetist, 1975-2004.
(US equivalent: Certified Anesthesiologist)
Cheltenham and Gloucester, UK. Now happily retired.
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk

[J. J. Lodder]

Peter T. Daniels <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:

> On Monday, August 12, 2013 10:50:43 AM UTC-4, THE COLONEL wrote:
>
> > Misha's a nice name for a girl, but I think it's a little queer for a man.
>
> That flaming ballet-dancer Baryshnikov never managed to snag a lady, eh?

Mr Mengelberg doesn't agree either,

Jan

[Peter T. Daniels]

The only Mengelberg I know is the conductor Willem?

[Robert Bannister]

One sounds like dog food.

--
Robert Bannister

[Robert Bannister]

All the Slavonic languages are very close at least with regard to
lexicon. So close that there are many false friends that can lead to
misunderstandings, but close enough to make a conversation possible if
both participants make an effort. Polish has the most divergent
pronunciation, but it is still not so different. In Europe, only Danish,
Norwegian and Swedish are closer.

--
Robert Bannister

[Robert Bannister]

That's one of the reasons I have decided not to go.

--
Robert Bannister