What's a TK? (heard in Scott & Bailey, great show, lovely Mancunian accents)

[Isabelle Cecchini]

Is TK a known abbreviation in the UK?

Here's some context:

The police have been tracking phone calls --that's in episode 1 of the
2nd series of Scott and Bailey.

They finally get lucky:

"It's a TK on the Hollingwood Estate [...]"

What follows makes it clear that the call came from a
phone box. So my first guess would be that the "T" refers to
"telephone". I have difficulty with the "K". Might it refer to "Kiosk"?

http://www.acronymfinder.com/Telephone-Kiosk-%28TK%29.html
suggests that the abbreviation is rarely found.


--
Isabelle Cecchini

[the Omrud]

Yes, Telephone Kiosk. It's not a commonly used term amongst the public,
but it may be standard police jargon, of which there is loads, such as
RTA for Road Traffic Accident. I have noticed the appalling use of
"CSI" by the otherwise wonderful DCI Gill Murray. The British term is
SOCO for Scene of Crimes Officer, pronounced "Socco".

We greatly enjoy Scott & Bailey. As I understand it, the interviews
which form a significant part of the programme are the most realistic
shown in a UK detective programme. Senior UK detectives don't interview
suspects, nobody shouts or bangs tables or threatens.

The police station in Scott & Bailey is a disused bank in Bolton (I
think it's Bolton), and the scenes shot in the Ladies are really filmed
in the bank's staff toilet, which is so small that the director and
sound engineer have to hide inside one of the cubicles with their feet
off the floor.

The police force for which they work is fictional - our local fuzz is
named GMP, "Greater Manchester Police"; their brand new headquarters is
directly opposite my office in Manchester.

--
David
SW France

[Iain Archer]

the Omrud wrote on Mon, 9 Apr 2012

>On 09/04/2012 10:59, Isabelle Cecchini wrote:
>> Is TK a known abbreviation in the UK?
>>
>> Here's some context:
>>
>> The police have been tracking phone calls --that's in episode 1 of the
>> 2nd series of Scott and Bailey.
>>
>> They finally get lucky:
>>
>> "It's a TK on the Hollingwood Estate [...]"
>>
>> What follows makes it clear that the call came from a
>> phone box. So my first guess would be that the "T" refers to
>> "telephone". I have difficulty with the "K". Might it refer to "Kiosk"?
>>
>> http://www.acronymfinder.com/Telephone-Kiosk-%28TK%29.html
>> suggests that the abbreviation is rarely found.
>
>Yes, Telephone Kiosk. It's not a commonly used term amongst the
>public, but it may be standard police jargon, of which there is loads,
>such as RTA for Road Traffic Accident. I have noticed the appalling
>use of "CSI" by the otherwise wonderful DCI Gill Murray. The British
>term is SOCO for Scene of Crimes Officer, pronounced "Socco".
>

It's totally new to me, and I'm doubtful about its being standard police
jargon: I'd assume that would usually be less informal.

acronyms.thefreedictionary.com has:

TCB Telephone Call Box (used by OS and other data sources in the UK)

[OS is Ordnance Survey, our official map makers]
--
Iain Archer

[the Omrud]

It is given on this list of Thames Valley Police jargon:

http://www.uknags.org.uk/view_group.php?nag=1&page=112

--
David
SW France

[Iain Archer]

10-4
--
Iain Archer

[Peter Duncanson (BrE)]

On Mon, 09 Apr 2012 12:38:15 +0100, the Omrud <usenet...@gmail.com>
wrote:

And the line after TK has a typo.

TKAP Tacking Knives Action Programme

should be

TKAP Tackling Knives Action Programme

http://data.gov.uk/dataset/tackling-knives-action-programme-tkap

--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

[Peter Duncanson (BrE)]

That's not on the list. <smile>

[Iain Archer]

Iain Archer wrote on Mon, 9 Apr 2012

And I've now found other police websites using it, and a mention in a
memoir about policing in 1959:

"43. Communication! Officers had a system of contacting the police
station without using cash. With the old A and B buttons in the
telephone kiosk (TK), lift the receiver, put in two pennies and dial the
number. When the station officer answered the call, you would shout down
the ear piece the TK location and put the phone down without pressing A.
Press B and get money back and the Station Officer would ring back."
<http://www.open.ac.uk/Arts/history-from-police-archives/RB1/Pt3/pt3Repor
t59.html>
--
Iain Archer

[LFS]

On 09/04/2012 11:17, the Omrud wrote:
> On 09/04/2012 10:59, Isabelle Cecchini wrote:
>> Is TK a known abbreviation in the UK?
>>
>> Here's some context:
>>
>> The police have been tracking phone calls --that's in episode 1 of the
>> 2nd series of Scott and Bailey.
>>
>> They finally get lucky:
>>
>> "It's a TK on the Hollingwood Estate [...]"
>>
>> What follows makes it clear that the call came from a
>> phone box. So my first guess would be that the "T" refers to
>> "telephone". I have difficulty with the "K". Might it refer to "Kiosk"?
>>
>> http://www.acronymfinder.com/Telephone-Kiosk-%28TK%29.html
>> suggests that the abbreviation is rarely found.
>
> Yes, Telephone Kiosk. It's not a commonly used term amongst the public,
> but it may be standard police jargon, of which there is loads, such as
> RTA for Road Traffic Accident. I have noticed the appalling use of "CSI"
> by the otherwise wonderful DCI Gill Murray. The British term is SOCO for
> Scene of Crimes Officer, pronounced "Socco".
>
> We greatly enjoy Scott & Bailey. As I understand it, the interviews
> which form a significant part of the programme are the most realistic
> shown in a UK detective programme. Senior UK detectives don't interview
> suspects, nobody shouts or bangs tables or threatens.

Lesley Sharp is quite brilliant at gentle intimidation.

>
> The police station in Scott & Bailey is a disused bank in Bolton (I
> think it's Bolton), and the scenes shot in the Ladies are really filmed
> in the bank's staff toilet, which is so small that the director and
> sound engineer have to hide inside one of the cubicles with their feet
> off the floor.

And a wonderful tribute to Cagney and Lacey. I thought S & B would turn
out to be a pale shadow of C & L but I think the characters have
developed in quite different ways and the DCI is excellent.

We went to a BFI event celebrating C & L not long ago. It was
fascinating hearing Daly and Gless reminiscing about making the series
but the real revelation was the very awful Barney Rosenzweig who took
all the credit.

>
> The police force for which they work is fictional - our local fuzz is
> named GMP, "Greater Manchester Police"; their brand new headquarters is
> directly opposite my office in Manchester.
>


--

Laura
(emulate St. George for email)

[MC]

In article <9ug4pg...@mid.individual.net>,

LFS <la...@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> wrote:

> > We greatly enjoy Scott & Bailey. As I understand it, the interviews
> > which form a significant part of the programme are the most realistic
> > shown in a UK detective programme. Senior UK detectives don't interview
> > suspects, nobody shouts or bangs tables or threatens.
>
> Lesley Sharp is quite brilliant at gentle intimidation.

This links to a news report about a serial killer in Canada which
includes video of the interrogation that brought him down. The detective
has been widely hailed as a master of the craft, and this tape is used
by police forces all over North America as part of their training.

Sorry I couldn't curtail the link - SnipUrl wouldn't let me.

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/WFive/20101022/russell-williams-interrogation-1
01022/

--

"If you can, tell me something happy."
- Marybones

[the Omrud]

On 09/04/2012 13:59, LFS wrote:

> Lesley Sharp is quite brilliant

Nuff said.

--
David
SW France

[Peter Duncanson (BrE)]

On Mon, 09 Apr 2012 11:17:29 +0100, the Omrud <usenet...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>I have noticed the appalling use of
>"CSI" by the otherwise wonderful DCI Gill Murray. The British term is
>SOCO for Scene of Crimes Officer, pronounced "Socco".

I wonder whether that is done deliberately with a view to
comprehensibility in North America and other countries in which "CSI"
would be understood by viewers even if it is not used locally?

[the Omrud]

On 09/04/2012 15:52, Peter Duncanson (BrE) wrote:
> On Mon, 09 Apr 2012 11:17:29 +0100, the Omrud<usenet...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I have noticed the appalling use of
>> "CSI" by the otherwise wonderful DCI Gill Murray. The British term is
>> SOCO for Scene of Crimes Officer, pronounced "Socco".
>
> I wonder whether that is done deliberately with a view to
> comprehensibility in North America and other countries in which "CSI"
> would be understood by viewers even if it is not used locally?

Seems a bit unlikely when even BrE speakers don't undersand "TK". And
then there's all those Mancunian accents.

--
David
SW France

[Nick Spalding]

MC wrote, in <copespaz-E4161E...@news.eternal-september.org>
on Mon, 09 Apr 2012 09:20:37 -0400:

TinyURL works: <http://tinyurl.com/ct3sgyy>
--
Nick Spalding
BrE/IrE

[MC]

In article <jlutuu$jiu$1...@dont-email.me>,

The second of the two videos is particularly interesting in terms of
interrogation technique.

[Isabelle Cecchini]

Le 09/04/2012 12:17, the Omrud a écrit :
[...]

>
> We greatly enjoy Scott & Bailey. As I understand it, the interviews
> which form a significant part of the programme are the most realistic
> shown in a UK detective programme. Senior UK detectives don't interview
> suspects, nobody shouts or bangs tables or threatens.
>
> The police station in Scott & Bailey is a disused bank in Bolton (I
> think it's Bolton), and the scenes shot in the Ladies are really filmed
> in the bank's staff toilet, which is so small that the director and
> sound engineer have to hide inside one of the cubicles with their feet
> off the floor.
>
> The police force for which they work is fictional - our local fuzz is
> named GMP, "Greater Manchester Police"; their brand new headquarters is
> directly opposite my office in Manchester.
>

Thanks for the information. The different murder squads in the fictional
Manchester Metropolitan Police are referred to as "Syndicate Nine" and
"Syndicate Three". Do you know if those denominations have any basis in
reality?

--
Isabelle Cecchini

[the Omrud]

Indeed. GMP has a "Major Incident Team" which is organised into Syndicates:

<http://www.gmp.police.uk/mainsite/0/BE116868E353C90A802573AD004B2B20/$file/BriefDecember2007.pdf>

and

http://www.gmpa.gov.uk/d/greater_manchester_hmic_maj1.pdf :

"GMP’s MITs are organised in nine syndicates which operate from
dedicated facilities across the force to investigate all homicides.
Staffing, accommodation, equipment and specialist support are fit for
purpose. To relieve the demand on territorial divisions, the SCD has
taken responsibility for investigating all category homicides. The
establishment of the category C homicide investigation team reflects
innovative workforce modernisation to relieve demand on territorial
divisions."

The character of DCI Gill Murray is based on a real Manchester DI from
MIT, Diane Taylor, who acted as a consultant to the series. It's well
worth reading the first section of this article, by the writer.

http://www.jonn.co.uk/tv/ScottBailey.html

--
David
SW France

[LFS]

On 09/04/2012 22:26, the Omrud wrote:

>
> The character of DCI Gill Murray is based on a real Manchester DI from
> MIT, Diane Taylor, who acted as a consultant to the series. It's well
> worth reading the first section of this article, by the writer.
>
> http://www.jonn.co.uk/tv/ScottBailey.html
>

That's really interesting. I like the idea that the whole project was
conceived and produced by women, but, having just watched this week's
episode, I note that the male characters all seem a bit wimpish compared
to the women. I'd quite like to see a strong female villain, too.

[Peter Moylan]

Isabelle Cecchini wrote:

> Is TK a known abbreviation in the UK?

Nobody seems to have come up with the answer that was my first reaction.
The abbreviation TK can be found in a number of science fiction stories,
usually without explanation. Everyone understands that it means someone
capable of performing telekinesis.

--
Peter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org
For an e-mail address, see my web page.

[R H Draney]

Peter Moylan filted:

>
>Isabelle Cecchini wrote:
>
>> Is TK a known abbreviation in the UK?
>
>Nobody seems to have come up with the answer that was my first reaction.
>The abbreviation TK can be found in a number of science fiction stories,
>usually without explanation. Everyone understands that it means someone
>capable of performing telekinesis.

That's PK (for psychokinesis) over this way....r


--
Me? Sarcastic?
Yeah, right.

[Duggy]

Sounds like cash was used, but not spent.

I've heard of backpackers and exchange students using the same method
to ring home.

===
= DUG.
===

[Duggy]

On Apr 9, 8:17 pm, the Omrud <usenet.om...@gmail.com> wrote:
>The British term is
> SOCO for Scene of Crimes Officer, pronounced "Socco".

They were, but judging by "The Bill" they are now "Crime Scene
Examiners". A SOCO correct a CID officer in an episode.

===
= DUG.
===

[MC]

In article <eu2dnbi4VKzoGR7S...@westnet.com.au>,

Peter Moylan <inv...@peter.pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

> Isabelle Cecchini wrote:
>
> > Is TK a known abbreviation in the UK?
>
> Nobody seems to have come up with the answer that was my first reaction.
> The abbreviation TK can be found in a number of science fiction stories,
> usually without explanation. Everyone understands that it means someone
> capable of performing telekinesis.

When I worked for a book packager in Montreal "TK" was jargon for "to
come" - no idea how widespread the term is. It could have been just that
company for all I know.

[tony cooper]

When I was young, members of my family that traveled somewhere called
home to notify the family they had arrived safely. The call was an
operator-assisted person-to-person call to Roger. "Roger" was the
name of a family dog. The call was refused, so there was no charge.


--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

[Peter Brooks]

A nice solution - in the future you'd be likely, in these
circumstances, to have a visit from the heavy brigade to find out if
you've been keeping Roger prisoner in the cellar.

Communicating without appearing to have done so is part of
cryptography, of course, part of the delight of all boys of eleven. In
Sherlock Holmes, the preferred method was a cryptic not in the 'agony
column' (I was never quite sure what that was) of the Times. I suppose
that the modern equivalent is text concealed in jpegs.

[R H Draney]

Peter Brooks filted:

>
>Communicating without appearing to have done so is part of
>cryptography, of course, part of the delight of all boys of eleven. In
>Sherlock Holmes, the preferred method was a cryptic not in the 'agony
>column' (I was never quite sure what that was) of the Times. I suppose
>that the modern equivalent is text concealed in jpegs.

More in the category of steganography, I think, which conceals not only the
content of the message but the very fact that a message exists....r

[Duggy]

Roger didn't take calls?

===
= DUG.
===

[Steve Hayes]

On Mon, 9 Apr 2012 11:40:43 +0100, Iain Archer <m...@privacy.net> wrote:

>the Omrud wrote on Mon, 9 Apr 2012

>>Yes, Telephone Kiosk. It's not a commonly used term amongst the
>>public, but it may be standard police jargon, of which there is loads,
>>such as RTA for Road Traffic Accident. I have noticed the appalling
>>use of "CSI" by the otherwise wonderful DCI Gill Murray. The British
>>term is SOCO for Scene of Crimes Officer, pronounced "Socco".
>>
>
>It's totally new to me, and I'm doubtful about its being standard police
>jargon: I'd assume that would usually be less informal.

I've seen SOCO, without explanation, in lots of UK whodunits, so I assume is
as much part of UK police jargon as "form", as in "Does he have form?"

The first couple of times I saw I had to pause to think about it, but managed
to work it out.


--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

[R H Draney]

Duggy filted:

>
>On Apr 10, 2:07=A0pm, tony cooper <tony.cooper...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> When I was young, members of my family that traveled somewhere called

>> home to notify the family they had arrived safely. =A0The call was an
>> operator-assisted person-to-person call to Roger. =A0"Roger" was the
>> name of a family dog. =A0The call was refused, so there was no charge.

>
>Roger didn't take calls?

Doesn't matter...he wasn't a person, so the call couldn't be completed as
ordered....r

[Steve Hayes]

When I was 11 we used a "long tickey" -- a piece of electric flex.

When the person answered the call you stuck one end into a small hole in the
mouthpiece of the receiver, and the other on any exposed metal on the light
fitting in the telephone booth to earth it, and the phone thought you'd
dropped a tickey.

Then the GPO intoduced the new model phones with one-piece metal boxes,
armoured cables, and solid moulded rubber hand pieces with no holes in them.
I'm sure someone found a way round that, but it was beyond the average
11-year-old.

[Nick Spalding]

Peter Brooks wrote, in
<f934ac93-d32d-4bc6...@w5g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
on Mon, 9 Apr 2012 21:52:25 -0700 (PDT):

>On Apr 10, 6:07 am, tony cooper <tony.cooper...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 9 Apr 2012 20:18:36 -0700 (PDT), Duggy
>>

>> When I was young, members of my family that traveled somewhere called
>> home to notify the family they had arrived safely.  The call was an
>> operator-assisted person-to-person call to Roger.  "Roger" was the
>> name of a family dog.  The call was refused, so there was no charge.
>>
>A nice solution - in the future you'd be likely, in these
>circumstances, to have a visit from the heavy brigade to find out if
>you've been keeping Roger prisoner in the cellar.
>
>Communicating without appearing to have done so is part of
>cryptography, of course, part of the delight of all boys of eleven. In
>Sherlock Holmes, the preferred method was a cryptic not in the 'agony
>column' (I was never quite sure what that was) of the Times. I suppose
>that the modern equivalent is text concealed in jpegs.

The Personal Column which used to be on the front page. As in this
fragment from 2nd January 1932.

<http://tinypic.com/r/2uzyyv4/5>
--
Nick Spalding
BrE/IrE

[Peter Duncanson (BrE)]

On Tue, 10 Apr 2012 10:12:57 +0200, Steve Hayes <haye...@telkomsa.net>
wrote:

>On Mon, 9 Apr 2012 11:40:43 +0100, Iain Archer <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>>the Omrud wrote on Mon, 9 Apr 2012
>>>Yes, Telephone Kiosk. It's not a commonly used term amongst the
>>>public, but it may be standard police jargon, of which there is loads,
>>>such as RTA for Road Traffic Accident. I have noticed the appalling
>>>use of "CSI" by the otherwise wonderful DCI Gill Murray. The British
>>>term is SOCO for Scene of Crimes Officer, pronounced "Socco".
>>>
>>
>>It's totally new to me, and I'm doubtful about its being standard police
>>jargon: I'd assume that would usually be less informal.
>
>I've seen SOCO, without explanation, in lots of UK whodunits, so I assume is
>as much part of UK police jargon as "form", as in "Does he have form?"
>

"form" is slang. SOCO is the initialism of an actual job title.

http://targetjobs.co.uk/careers-advice/a-to-z-of-careers/scene-of-crime-officer

>The first couple of times I saw I had to pause to think about it, but managed
>to work it out.

--

[Peter Duncanson (BrE)]

On Mon, 09 Apr 2012 11:17:29 +0100, the Omrud <usenet...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> I have noticed the appalling use of
>"CSI" by the otherwise wonderful DCI Gill Murray. The British term is
>SOCO for Scene of Crimes Officer, pronounced "Socco".

I've searched a bit further and it looks as though that use of "CSI"
might have been authentic.

In UK policing there are SOCOs, CSIs and CSEs.

http://www.police-jobs.co.uk/csi-jobs/

Permanent and temporary Scenes of Crime Investigation jobs

Crime scene investigators (CSIs) are also known as scenes of crime
officers (SOCOs). Jobs under these titles involve attending crime
scenes to look for evidence and record their findings carefully so
that the crime can be investigated properly.
....

The UK National Policing Improvement Agency:
http://www.npia.police.uk/en/6461.htm

Crime Scene Investigation Training

The training of police and support staff in the identification,
recording and recovery of evidence from crime scenes includes crime
scene photography and the recovery of trace evidence.

The Foundation Crime Scene Investigators Learning Programme provides
the skills and knowledge to become a competent Crime Scene
Investigator.
....

British Transport Police job advert:
http://www.police-life.co.uk/jobs/no/72729

Crime Scene Examiner

British Transport Police is unique in that its operational area
covers the whole of the UK Mainland. As a Crime Scene Examiner you
will be part of the Scientific Support Unit and will be based in
Birmingham, but your area will cover the Midlands, the South West
and Wales.

The (London) Metropolitan Police Directorate of Forensic Services:
http://www.met.police.uk/scd/specialist_units/forensic_services.htm

...Crime Scene Managers...

Each Borough Forensic Manager has a team of Crime Scene Examiners
covering the examination of volume crime scenes. They also support
Crime Scene Managers at more serious crime scenes, including murder.
Crime Scene Examiners provide a 24/7 service and in an average month
will examine over 11,000 scenes.

[Adam Funk]

On 2012-04-09, the Omrud wrote:

> On 09/04/2012 15:52, Peter Duncanson (BrE) wrote:
>> On Mon, 09 Apr 2012 11:17:29 +0100, the Omrud<usenet...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I have noticed the appalling use of
>>> "CSI" by the otherwise wonderful DCI Gill Murray. The British term is
>>> SOCO for Scene of Crimes Officer, pronounced "Socco".

Using "CSI" to refer to a person specifically, rather than a group or
a function? I've seen police vans in the UK labelled "CRIME SCENE
INVESTIGATION".

>> I wonder whether that is done deliberately with a view to
>> comprehensibility in North America and other countries in which "CSI"
>> would be understood by viewers even if it is not used locally?
>
> Seems a bit unlikely when even BrE speakers don't undersand "TK". And
> then there's all those Mancunian accents.

ha!


--
Bob just used 'canonical' in the canonical way. [Guy Steele]

[Adam Funk]

On 2012-04-10, Steve Hayes wrote:

> When I was 11 we used a "long tickey" -- a piece of electric flex.
>
> When the person answered the call you stuck one end into a small hole in the
> mouthpiece of the receiver, and the other on any exposed metal on the light
> fitting in the telephone booth to earth it, and the phone thought you'd
> dropped a tickey.
>
> Then the GPO intoduced the new model phones with one-piece metal boxes,
> armoured cables, and solid moulded rubber hand pieces with no holes in them.
> I'm sure someone found a way round that, but it was beyond the average
> 11-year-old.

Well, there was the famous 2600 Hz Cap'n Crunch whistle.


--
Two of the most famous products of Berkeley are LSD and Unix.
I don't think that this is a coincidence.
[alleged in The UNIX-Haters Handbook]

[MC]

In article <q0td59x...@news.ducksburg.com>,

Adam Funk <a24...@ducksburg.com> wrote:

> On 2012-04-10, Steve Hayes wrote:
>
> > When I was 11 we used a "long tickey" -- a piece of electric flex.
> >
> > When the person answered the call you stuck one end into a small hole in the
> > mouthpiece of the receiver, and the other on any exposed metal on the light
> > fitting in the telephone booth to earth it, and the phone thought you'd
> > dropped a tickey.
> >
> > Then the GPO intoduced the new model phones with one-piece metal boxes,
> > armoured cables, and solid moulded rubber hand pieces with no holes in them.
> > I'm sure someone found a way round that, but it was beyond the average
> > 11-year-old.
>
> Well, there was the famous 2600 Hz Cap'n Crunch whistle.

I remember at university in the UK in the late 60s someone gave me an
engineer's code number to make long distance calls from an old Button
A/Button B pay phone. It involved more than the number, however... You
had to dial the number, then tap the bar a certain number of times to
get a new dial code, enter another number and *then* dial the number you
wanted.

Does that ring any bells with anyone (so to speak)?

[Irwell]

On Tue, 10 Apr 2012 10:53:07 +1000, Peter Moylan wrote:

> Isabelle Cecchini wrote:
>
>> Is TK a known abbreviation in the UK?
>
> Nobody seems to have come up with the answer that was my first reaction.
> The abbreviation TK can be found in a number of science fiction stories,
> usually without explanation. Everyone understands that it means someone
> capable of performing telekinesis.

That's because they don't have PK.
Always shop where the sales personnel have PK.

[Peter Moylan]

MC wrote:

> I remember at university in the UK in the late 60s someone gave me an
> engineer's code number to make long distance calls from an old Button
> A/Button B pay phone. It involved more than the number, however... You
> had to dial the number, then tap the bar a certain number of times to
> get a new dial code, enter another number and *then* dial the number you
> wanted.
>
> Does that ring any bells with anyone (so to speak)?
>

My brother, who worked for the phone company, never bothered with the
dial. He made all his calls by tapping the bar.

Before the introduction of STD (subscriber trunk dialling) some people
liked to use the secret operators' dialling codes to route a call all
around the country before calling the house next door.

[Roland Hutchinson]

"tickey"?

--
Roland Hutchinson

He calls himself "the Garden State's leading violist da gamba,"
... comparable to being ruler of an exceptionally small duchy.
--Newark (NJ) Star Ledger ( http://tinyurl.com/RolandIsNJ )

[Roland Hutchinson]

Widespread in publishing, I believe. The use I'm familiar with is to
indicate in copy where information that is to be supplied later will be
placed.

I frequently use myself when writing a preliminary draft -- typically,
for example, some of the footnotes will just the author's name, possibly
a minimal short title, and "TK" where I didn't want to interrupt the flow
of my thought while writing by breaking off and taking time to supply and
verify the exact title and page number of the work being cited. Then I
can go back later with blue pencil or wordprocessor and supply the
missing details when I'm in a frame of mind more suitable for working
accurately on mechanical details.

By the time it gets shown to an editor, most or (ideally) all of the TKs
will have been removed by me.

[Mike Barnes]

MC <cope...@mapca.inter.net>:

>I remember at university in the UK in the late 60s someone gave me an
>engineer's code number to make long distance calls from an old Button
>A/Button B pay phone. It involved more than the number, however... You
>had to dial the number, then tap the bar a certain number of times to
>get a new dial code, enter another number and *then* dial the number you
>wanted.
>
>Does that ring any bells with anyone (so to speak)?

Certainly. My experience was the same. AIUI it worked by entering a
special code to get into some other dialling context, then leapfrogging
from exchange to adjacent exchange until you got to the destination,
then popping out into a normal dialling context. There could be forty or
more digits involved. I believe that the trapdoors and secret passages
were there as part of the transition to STD.

I was on the fringe of a group that researched the codes and sold long
distance calls to other students. Research consisted of dialling as far
as a known exchange, dialling a candidate routing code, then dialling a
plausible number and asking the person who answered where they were
located. :-)

--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England

[LFS]

Yes, but I never managed to get it to work.

[Peter Duncanson (BrE)]

On Mon, 09 Apr 2012 11:17:29 +0100, the Omrud <usenet...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> I have noticed the appalling use of
>"CSI" by the otherwise wonderful DCI Gill Murray. The British term is
>SOCO for Scene of Crimes Officer, pronounced "Socco".
>

<snip>
>The police force for which they work is fictional - our local fuzz is
>named GMP, "Greater Manchester Police"; their brand new headquarters is
>directly opposite my office in Manchester.

A job description from the GMP website:


GREATER MANCHESTER POLICE
JOB DESCRIPTION


POST TITLE: Senior Crime Scene Investigator

DEPARTMENT/DIVISION/BRANCH: Crime, Forensic Services

SECTION/UNIT: Crime Scene Investigation Section


GRADE: J

RESPONSIBLE TO: Crime Scene Investigation Unit managers
Divisional Commander


RESPONSIBLE FOR: Between 4 and 9 Crime Scene Investigators,
1 Volume Crime Scene Supervisor, between
1 and 3 Volume Crime Scene Investigators
and 1 Administrative Assistant
(Divisionally based)

AIM OF JOB: To ensure an efficient and effective scene
investigation service and aim to maximise primary
detections from scientific evidence

To act as a Crime Scene Manager and Forensic Support
Co-ordinator for major crime and disaster scenes

To provide general supervision for divisional Crime
Scene Investigation staff and a line of communication
between unit and divisional managers and own staff
<etc.>

That information is dated July 2008.

[Adam Funk]

On 2012-04-10, Peter Moylan wrote:

> Before the introduction of STD (subscriber trunk dialling) some people
> liked to use the secret operators' dialling codes to route a call all
> around the country before calling the house next door.

Be careful with those abbreviations. I recently used a label-maker to
mark an airtight container "STD COFFEE" (meaning "standard", in
contrast with the other one marked "TURKISH COFFEE") & the teacher in
the house found that quite alarming.


--
Le beau est aussi utile que l'utile. [Victor Hugo]

[Adam Funk]

On 2012-04-10, Roland Hutchinson wrote:

> On Tue, 10 Apr 2012 10:45:36 +0200, Steve Hayes wrote:

>> When I was 11 we used a "long tickey" -- a piece of electric flex.
>>
>> When the person answered the call you stuck one end into a small hole in
>> the mouthpiece of the receiver, and the other on any exposed metal on
>> the light fitting in the telephone booth to earth it, and the phone
>> thought you'd dropped a tickey.
>>
>> Then the GPO intoduced the new model phones with one-piece metal boxes,
>> armoured cables, and solid moulded rubber hand pieces with no holes in
>> them. I'm sure someone found a way round that, but it was beyond the
>> average 11-year-old.
>
> "tickey"?

I had to look it up, but it was (as I'd suspected) slang for a
particular coin. (Let's face it, "nickel" doesn't make much sense
either.)


--
In the 1970s, people began receiving utility bills for
-£999,999,996.32 and it became harder to sustain the
myth of the infallible electronic brain. (Stob 2001)

[the Omrud]

On 10/04/2012 16:32, Peter Moylan wrote:
> MC wrote:
>
>> I remember at university in the UK in the late 60s someone gave me an
>> engineer's code number to make long distance calls from an old Button
>> A/Button B pay phone. It involved more than the number, however... You
>> had to dial the number, then tap the bar a certain number of times to
>> get a new dial code, enter another number and *then* dial the number you
>> wanted.
>>
>> Does that ring any bells with anyone (so to speak)?
>>
> My brother, who worked for the phone company, never bothered with the
> dial. He made all his calls by tapping the bar.

I became a dab hand at that - it was on a phone behind a private
exchange. Once you had an outside line, you could hang on to it by
disconnecting the line for just a second after your call, and you could
then make further calls by tapping. But tapping was just the same as
using the dial as that's how it worked - by interrupting the
connection/dial tone.

--
David
SW France

[Isabelle Cecchini]

Le 09/04/2012 23:26, the Omrud a écrit :
[...]
> The character of DCI Gill Murray is based on a real Manchester DI from
> MIT, Diane Taylor, who acted as a consultant to the series. It's well
> worth reading the first section of this article, by the writer.
>
> http://www.jonn.co.uk/tv/ScottBailey.html

Thanks for your information on the "Syndicates" and for the link about
the origins of the series.

Diane Taylor comes across as both really smart and very down-to-earth.

DCI Gill Murray, with comments about criminals such as "They're thick,
they can't help it [showing off]" or somebody with the "mental age of a
banana" has a robust perspective on evil-doers, visibly inspired by
Diane Taylor's comments about Mira Hindley: "Myra Hindley wasn’t
special. She was dead ordinary with something missing, that’s all."

--
Isabelle Cecchini

[MC]

In article <9uj51c...@mid.individual.net>,

It took me many tries before I finally got the knack - but once I did I
was able to use it all the time. It wasn't just tapping the bar, there
was a definite technique and timing involved.

[MC]

In article <copespaz-EF4148...@news.eternal-september.org>,

And I seem to remember it was not a universal thing - you had to have
the specific code for the exchange you wanted to reach.

[Peter Duncanson (BrE)]

On Tue, 10 Apr 2012 17:31:14 +0100, "Peter Duncanson (BrE)"
<ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:

>On Mon, 09 Apr 2012 11:17:29 +0100, the Omrud <usenet...@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>> I have noticed the appalling use of
>>"CSI" by the otherwise wonderful DCI Gill Murray. The British term is
>>SOCO for Scene of Crimes Officer, pronounced "Socco".
>>
><snip>
>>The police force for which they work is fictional - our local fuzz is
>>named GMP, "Greater Manchester Police"; their brand new headquarters is
>>directly opposite my office in Manchester.
>
>A job description from the GMP website:
>

I forgot to give the link.

That page is the first of 73 search results for "crime scene
investigator" on the GMP site:
http://tinyurl.com/cd65fzl

[Steve Hayes]

On Tue, 10 Apr 2012 15:41:17 +0000 (UTC), Roland Hutchinson
<my.sp...@verizon.net> wrote:

>> When I was 11 we used a "long tickey" -- a piece of electric flex.

>"tickey"?

BrE = thruppenny bit.

The South African tickey was like the old British round silver ones, though,
not the later angled bronze ones.

Worth 3d or 2 1/2 cents.

http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/user_images/161/48543_tiekie1.jpg

and for the old-style telephone booth, alias tickey box, in which the long
tickeys worked:

http://www.greeff.co.za/property/wynberg

[Steve Hayes]

On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 01:32:09 +1000, Peter Moylan
<inv...@peter.pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

>My brother, who worked for the phone company, never bothered with the
>dial. He made all his calls by tapping the bar.

Only worked on pulse-dialling exchanges, though.

[Glenn Knickerbocker]

On 4/10/2012 3:18 PM, Steve Hayes wrote:
> Only worked on pulse-dialling exchanges, though.

Are there circuits that don't recognize pulses nowadays? The corded
phone I keep handy for when the power goes out is still an old rotary
Trimline.

ŹR

[Jitze]

On Monday, April 9, 2012 9:52:25 PM UTC-7, Peter Brooks wrote:
>
> Communicating without appearing to have done so is part of
> cryptography, of course, part of the delight of all boys of eleven. In
> Sherlock Holmes, the preferred method was a cryptic not in the 'agony
> column' (I was never quite sure what that was) of the Times. I suppose
> that the modern equivalent is text concealed in jpegs.

Be careful not to confuse Cryptography with Steganography (where one hides
the very existence of a secret message) although the border can get fuzzy and
sometimes the two are used together.

Hiding text by diddling bits in the binary representation of a jpeg file is
clearly steganography.

Placing a "Personals" advetisement in The Times announcing that "The white
rabbit has landed" is more a case of encoding as most people will grok
to the fact that this is a message (it isn't hidden) but won't be able
to discern the intended meaning.

Placing a "Personals" advetisement in The Times asking "Will the person
who lost a gold amulet outside the Odeon last Friday night please call
me at 555-1234 and identify it by its inscription to reclaim it" is in a
sense hidden, because it is not apparent to the casual observer that it in
fact carries a secret message.

These may sound like petty distinctions, but they can be very important in
certain circles

Jitze

[Mike L]

On Tue, 10 Apr 2012 10:24:36 +0100, Nick Spalding <spal...@iol.ie>
wrote:

>Peter Brooks wrote, in
><f934ac93-d32d-4bc6...@w5g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
> on Mon, 9 Apr 2012 21:52:25 -0700 (PDT):
>
>>On Apr 10, 6:07 am, tony cooper <tony.cooper...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 9 Apr 2012 20:18:36 -0700 (PDT), Duggy
>>>
>>> When I was young, members of my family that traveled somewhere called
>>> home to notify the family they had arrived safely.  The call was an
>>> operator-assisted person-to-person call to Roger.  "Roger" was the
>>> name of a family dog.  The call was refused, so there was no charge.

The modern equivalent is "I'll give you a missed call", which has some
ObAUE absurdity value.

>>>
>>A nice solution - in the future you'd be likely, in these
>>circumstances, to have a visit from the heavy brigade to find out if
>>you've been keeping Roger prisoner in the cellar.
>>
>>Communicating without appearing to have done so is part of
>>cryptography, of course, part of the delight of all boys of eleven. In
>>Sherlock Holmes, the preferred method was a cryptic not in the 'agony
>>column' (I was never quite sure what that was) of the Times. I suppose
>>that the modern equivalent is text concealed in jpegs.
>
>The Personal Column which used to be on the front page. As in this
>fragment from 2nd January 1932.
>
><http://tinypic.com/r/2uzyyv4/5>

I think I've mentioned before that I don't quite understand how "agony
column" came to change its meaning from an obvious jocularity about
the "Births, Marriages, and Deaths" announcements to the "Problem
Page" presided over by an "agony aunt". I can see that it might fit
the latter; but I don't see how it lost the old sense.

--
Mike.

[Mike L]

But don't eat at BK.

--
Mike.

[Peter Brooks]

On Apr 10, 11:05 pm, Mike L <n...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> On Tue, 10 Apr 2012 10:24:36 +0100, Nick Spalding <spald...@iol.ie>

> wrote:
>
> >Peter Brooks wrote, in

> ><f934ac93-d32d-4bc6-9f17-e5c1b2701...@w5g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>

Quite - I understood that it was the personal column, but wasn't clear
if 'agony column' was, in fact, simply as you say, an obvious
jocularity, or if it was a reference to something else well known.

So, now I've looked it up:

[OED]
"
1. a.1.a Anguish of mind, sore trouble or distress, a paroxysm of
grief. agony column, (a) the column of a newspaper that contains
special advertisements, particularly those for missing relatives or
friends, and thus often gives evidence of great distress; (b) a
regular newspaper or magazine feature containing readers' questions
about personal difficulties, with replies from the columnist; cf.
problem page s.v. problem 7 (b); agony aunt(ie), a familiar name for
the (female) editor of an agony column (sense b); in extended use, an
adviser on personal, psychological, etc., problems.

   c 1386 Chaucer Miller's T. 266 This man is falle‥In som woodnesse,
or in som agonye.    1494 Fabyan v. cxvii. 91 Fredegunda‥sore was
abasshed, and in great fere and agony.    1611 Bible 2 Mac. iii. 14
There was no small agonie throughout the whole citie.    1769 Junius
Lett. xix. 83 He sunk under the charge in an agony of confusion and
despair.    1863 Burton Bk. Hunter 40 It was agony to him to hear the
beggar's cry of distress.    1863 Fun 3 Oct. 23/2 Our own agony
column.    1880 Times 28 Dec. 10/1 A cryptogram in the agony column.
   1930 Wyndham Lewis Let. 30 July (1963) 190 The agony-column of the
Times has echoed the rage of people who considered themselves attacked
in the Apes.    1975 P. Makins Evelyn Home Story 9 Perhaps the biggest
obstacle the ‘agony aunties’ faced in the 'thirties was that neither
the queries they dealt with nor the publications which printed them
were taken seriously.    Ibid. xiv. 158 The actual writing style of
agony columns has changed quite noticeably over the years.    1979
Observer 11 Mar. 9 Marriage is something I've never wanted and writing
an agony column has confirmed that.—Irma Kurtz.    1979 R. Kent Aunt
Agony Advises xii. 265 Perhaps a university should start an agony
auntie course.    1983 Daily Tel. 7 Nov. 3/4 Confidential counselling
‘agony aunts’—to help police officers under stress is recommended in a
report presented to chief constables.    1984 S. Townsend Growing
Pains A. Mole 19, I can't go on like this. I have written to Auntie
Clara, the Agony Aunt.
"
"
1880 Times 28 Dec. 10/1 In every case of deciphering—whether it be of
a Cypriote inscription of a cryptogram in the agony column.
"

"
1933 ‘N. West’ (title) Miss Lonelyhearts.    Ibid. 14 Miss
Lonelyhearts tells the story of a reporter,‥detailed to write an agony
column and answer daily the letters desperate with human misery
addressed to his paper.
"

"
1979 Observer 11 Mar. 9 Marriage is something I've never wanted and
writing an agony column has confirmed that.—Irma Kurtz.
"

"
[agonist]
3.3 One who advertises in an ‘agony column’ (see agony 1 a).

   1915 Chambers's Jrnl. 6 Feb. 149/1 Yet somebody must respond, or a
number of the ‘agonists’ would require to retire‥from the business.
   1934 I. Brown in Essays of Year 1933–4 p. xx, He even scours the
advertisements, for the Agonists of The Times are often helpful.
"

[Jerry Friedman]

On Apr 10, 2:08 pm, Jitze <jitze.coupe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Monday, April 9, 2012 9:52:25 PM UTC-7, Peter Brooks wrote:
>
> > Communicating without appearing to have done so is part of
> > cryptography, of course, part of the delight of all boys of eleven. In
> > Sherlock Holmes, the preferred method was a cryptic not in the 'agony
> > column' (I was never quite sure what that was) of the Times. I suppose
> > that the modern equivalent is text concealed in jpegs.
>
> Be careful not to confuse Cryptography with Steganography (where one hides
> the very existence of a secret message) although the border can get fuzzy and
> sometimes the two are used together.
>
> Hiding text by diddling bits in the binary representation of a jpeg file is
> clearly steganography.

...

Did you see this Q in last year's SDC?

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.usage.english/browse_frm/thread/c795e9de5ed09f15/9e116f55c0fd3e90

http://tinyurl.com/bq4cttb

--
Jerry Friedman

[Peter Brooks]

I understand, I wasn't intending to mean 'croptography' in the
technical sense, but only in the literal, etymological one of 'hidden/
secret writing'.

The OED doesn't see much of a distinction, though:

"
steganography Obs. exc. Hist.

(stɛgəˈnɒgrəfɪ)

[ad. mod.L. steganographia (Trithemius 1500), a. assumed Gr.
*στεγανογραϕία, f. στεγανό-ς covered + γράϕ-ειν to write: see -graphy.
Cf. F. stéganographie (1567 in Hatz.-Darm.).]

The art of secret writing; cryptography. Also, cryptographic script,
cipher.

 1569 J. Sandford tr. Agrippa's Van. Artes 97 b, Steganographie a
marueilous kinde of writinge but not commonlye knowne.    1591 Wotton
Let. to Zouch Rel. W. (1685) 647 Concerning the Steganography I can by
none of those means that I advertis'd this last Week of, pass further
than I have.    1593 R. Harvey Philadelphus 56 The Histories were
written in some strange kind of polygraphy and steganography.    1602
[J. Willis] Art Stenogr. title-p., Where-vnto is annexed a very easie
direction for Steganographie, or, Secret Writing.    1677 Phil. Trans.
XII. 862 Steganography, (which word imports the Art of signifying ones
mind to another by an occult or secret way of writing).    1780 tr.
Von Troil's Iceland 299, I afterwards found the same kind of
steganography mentioned in a little work ascribed to Rhabanus Maurus.
   1823 ‘S. Collet’ Relics Lit. 112 Steganography.

So ˈsteganogram, a cryptogram; stegaˈnographer, stegaˈnographist, one
expert in steganography, a cryptographer; steganoˈgraphical a.,
pertaining to steganography.

   1562 Legh Armory 227 b, This Herehaught is no Steganographer.
   1588 J. Harvey Disc. Probl. 29 Whose mightie and wonderfull
proceedings no Poligrapher can expresse, or Steganographer decipher.
   Ibid. 53 Facing it out with a certaine learned tincture, that
should require as well a Steganographicall decipherer, as a logicall,
or philosophicall interpreter.    1727 Bailey vol. II,
Steganographist, an Artist in private Writing.    1753 Chesterfield in
World No. 24 I. 213 One of them being already in possession (to speak
in their own style) of a more brachygraphical, cryptographical and
steganographical secret in writing their warrants.    1780 tr. Von
Troil's Iceland 299 Another hand has patched in a steganographical
writing.    1904 Sat. Rev. 23 July 114/2 Colonel Hime‥has elucidated a
steganogram contained in his [Roger Bacon's] ‘Epistola de secretis
operibus’ which is decisive.
"

[Robin Bignall]

On Mon, 9 Apr 2012 20:16:51 -0700 (PDT), Duggy <Paul....@jcu.edu.au>
wrote:

>On Apr 9, 8:17 pm, the Omrud <usenet.om...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>The British term is
>> SOCO for Scene of Crimes Officer, pronounced "Socco".
>

>They were, but judging by "The Bill" they are now "Crime Scene
>Examiners". A SOCO correct a CID officer in an episode.
>
Doesn't surprise me. If a pushy inspector is even suspected of
contaminating a crime scene he or she can be severely reprimanded or
even worse by the boss of the crime. (This latter has an 'official
designation - SIO springs to mind - but I can't remember what it means.
I've been feasting on Swedish whodunits recently.)
--
Robin Bignall
(BrE)
Herts, England

[Duggy]

True, because if you know that there is a message to find "The White
Rabbit has landed" the other one is hidden.

===
= DUG.
===

[Dr Nick]

Senior Investigating Officer.
--
Online waterways route planner | http://canalplan.eu
Plan trips, see photos, check facilities | http://canalplan.org.uk

[Mike L]

>problem page s.v. problem 7?(b); agony aunt(ie), a familiar name for

>the (female) editor of an agony column (sense b); in extended use, an
>adviser on personal, psychological, etc., problems.
>

>   c?1386 Chaucer Miller's T. 266 This man is falle?In som woodnesse,
>or in som agonye.    1494 Fabyan v. cxvii. 91 Fredegunda?sore was

>abasshed, and in great fere and agony.    1611 Bible 2 Mac. iii. 14
>There was no small agonie throughout the whole citie.    1769 Junius
>Lett. xix. 83 He sunk under the charge in an agony of confusion and
>despair.    1863 Burton Bk. Hunter 40 It was agony to him to hear the
>beggar's cry of distress.    1863 Fun 3 Oct. 23/2 Our own agony
>column.    1880 Times 28 Dec. 10/1 A cryptogram in the agony column.
>   1930 Wyndham Lewis Let. 30 July (1963) 190 The agony-column of the
>Times has echoed the rage of people who considered themselves attacked
>in the Apes.    1975 P. Makins Evelyn Home Story 9 Perhaps the biggest
>obstacle the ‘agony aunties’ faced in the 'thirties was that neither
>the queries they dealt with nor the publications which printed them
>were taken seriously.    Ibid. xiv. 158 The actual writing style of
>agony columns has changed quite noticeably over the years.    1979
>Observer 11 Mar. 9 Marriage is something I've never wanted and writing
>an agony column has confirmed that.—Irma Kurtz.    1979 R. Kent Aunt
>Agony Advises xii. 265 Perhaps a university should start an agony
>auntie course.    1983 Daily Tel. 7 Nov. 3/4 Confidential counselling
>‘agony aunts’—to help police officers under stress is recommended in a
>report presented to chief constables.    1984 S. Townsend Growing
>Pains A. Mole 19, I can't go on like this. I have written to Auntie
>Clara, the Agony Aunt.
>"
>"
>1880 Times 28 Dec. 10/1 In every case of deciphering—whether it be of
>a Cypriote inscription of a cryptogram in the agony column.
>"
>
>"
>1933 ‘N. West’ (title) Miss Lonelyhearts.    Ibid. 14 Miss

>Lonelyhearts tells the story of a reporter,?detailed to write an agony

>column and answer daily the letters desperate with human misery
>addressed to his paper.
>"
>
>"
>1979 Observer 11 Mar. 9 Marriage is something I've never wanted and
>writing an agony column has confirmed that.—Irma Kurtz.
>"
>
>"
>[agonist]

>3.3 One who advertises in an ‘agony column’ (see agony 1?a).

>
>   1915 Chambers's Jrnl. 6 Feb. 149/1 Yet somebody must respond, or a

>number of the ‘agonists’ would require to retire?from the business.

>   1934 I. Brown in Essays of Year 1933–4 p. xx, He even scours the
>advertisements, for the Agonists of The Times are often helpful.
>"

I should have looked it up. So the "problem page" sense has been going
for much longer than I thought.

--
Mike.