Re: "Moribund The Burgermeister"

[Tony Cooper]

On 24 Mar 2016 22:03:53 GMT, r...@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram)
wrote:

> There are so many lines of song lyrics I never did
> understand, so I could post thousands and thousands
> of posts here about such lines.
>
> But, instead let me pick one of those lines. There is a song
> by the name of:
>
>Moribund The Burgermeister
>
> . What does this mean?
>
> Ok, I assume that this is all in title case, so this
> explains the upper case spelling.
>
> Wikipedia says: »A Burgermeister is chairman of the
> executive council«.
>
> So, we can start to explain this as
>
>Moribund The Chairman
>
> (simplified). But what does this mean?
>
> Does it mean the name of the chairman is »Moribund«?
>
> »Moribund« can also be an adjective whose meaning can be
> »dying«. So does it mean the chairman is dying? But if it
> is intended to convey that the chairman is dying, why is
> there no verb, such as in »The Burgermeister /Is/ Moribund«,
> or ?»Moribund Is The Burgermeister«, why is the title instead
> »Moribund The Burgermeister«?
>
> Shouldn't there be at least a comma, as in
> »Moribund, The Burgermeister«?
>
> Is this still an English pattern of word composition?
>
> Would one write, for example, »Hot The Weather«? (Without
> a comma?)

First rule: Do some research before asking.

Moribund the Burgermeister" is a song by English rock musician Peter
Gabriel. It is the B-side to his 1977 single "Solsbury Hill", and it
is the first track on his 1977 eponymous debut album. The song is
about a nervous disorder called Sydenham's chorea that causes rapid
jerking movements in its victims. Saint Vitus claimed to have had a
cure for the disease. Gabriel had the idea for the song after reading
a book about Middle Age epidemics.[1]

As to your other question, why a comma? Should there be a comma in
John the Baptist? Mott The Hoople?

Your example is not about names.


But, there is a comma in the lyrics:

Bunderschaft, you are going daft? Better seal off the castle grounds

"This is Moribund, the Burgermeister, I'm gonna keep this monster
down,

Somebody sent the subversive element; going to chase it out of down."

No-one will tell what all this is about

But I will find out.
(I will find out. I will find out.)


--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

[Tony Cooper]

On 24 Mar 2016 22:20:04 GMT, r...@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram)
wrote:

>Tony Cooper <tonyco...@gmail.com> writes:
>>As to your other question, why a comma? Should there be a comma in
>>John the Baptist? Mott The Hoople?
>

> I believe that the comma should be there when »moribund«
> is an adjective.
>
> But you are now telling me that »Moribund« here is a name,
> not an adjective.

*I'm* not telling you anything. The *lyrics* tell you it's a name.
Read the lyrics.


> First, I thought that nobody could be given such a name,
> but maybe the idea of the name is to remind his carrier
> that he is mortal.
>
> But the idea of »moribund« seems to include that someone
> will die not within some decades but within some days.
> So it would still be strange to give someone this name.

It's a song, not a historical document. You've never seen anything
"strange" in song lyrics before? Peter Gabriel wrote the lyrics after
reading a book about the Middle Ages.

[Robert Bannister]

On 25/03/2016 6:20 am, Stefan Ram wrote:
> Tony Cooper <tonyco...@gmail.com> writes:

>> As to your other question, why a comma? Should there be a comma in
>> John the Baptist? Mott The Hoople?
>

> I believe that the comma should be there when »moribund«
> is an adjective.
>
> But you are now telling me that »Moribund« here is a name,
> not an adjective.

If it's not a name, it makes no sense at all. Even if it is, it doesn't
make a lot.
--
Robert B. born England a long time ago;
Western Australia since 1972

[Jerry Friedman]

On 3/24/16 4:20 PM, Stefan Ram wrote:
> Tony Cooper <tonyco...@gmail.com> writes:

>> As to your other question, why a comma? Should there be a comma in
>> John the Baptist? Mott The Hoople?
>

> I believe that the comma should be there when »moribund«
> is an adjective.
>
> But you are now telling me that »Moribund« here is a name,
> not an adjective.
>

> First, I thought that nobody could be given such a name,
> but maybe the idea of the name is to remind his carrier
> that he is mortal.
>
> But the idea of »moribund« seems to include that someone
> will die not within some decades but within some days.
> So it would still be strange to give someone this name.

You're not supposed to imagine a realistic story. The name is no more
plausible than some in old-fashioned English literature: Lord Hate-Good,
Peachum ("peach" meant "inform the authorities of someone's crime"),
Prunesquallor, etc. Presumably Gabriel thought the sound and meaning of
"Moribund" made the right suggestions.

MtB is a good song, but "Here Comes the Flood" is one of the great songs
of the rock era. To my taste. The version on /Exposure/ may be the
best. There's one in German, too, but I'm not sure it's good German.

--
Jerry Friedman
"No Trump" bridge-themed political shirts: cafepress.com/jerrysdesigns
Bumper stickers ditto: cafepress/jerrysstickers

[Unknown]

Jerry Friedman wrote:

> On 3/24/16 4:20 PM, Stefan Ram wrote:
> >Tony Cooper <tonyco...@gmail.com> writes:
> > > As to your other question, why a comma? Should there be a comma
> > > in John the Baptist? Mott The Hoople?
> >
> > I believe that the comma should be there when »moribund«
> > is an adjective.
> >
> > But you are now telling me that »Moribund« here is a name,
> > not an adjective.
> >
> > First, I thought that nobody could be given such a name,
> > but maybe the idea of the name is to remind his carrier
> > that he is mortal.
> >
> > But the idea of »moribund« seems to include that someone
> > will die not within some decades but within some days.
> > So it would still be strange to give someone this name.
>
> You're not supposed to imagine a realistic story. The name is no
> more plausible than some in old-fashioned English literature: Lord
> Hate-Good, Peachum ("peach" meant "inform the authorities of
> someone's crime"), Prunesquallor, etc. Presumably Gabriel thought
> the sound and meaning of "Moribund" made the right suggestions.
>
> MtB is a good song, but "Here Comes the Flood" is one of the great

> songs of the rock era. To my taste. The version on Exposure may be

> the best. There's one in German, too, but I'm not sure it's good
> German.

I don't know the song, but I've known *of* it since it came out, and
it's always struck me a great idea. 'Moribund' is, obviously, an
adjective, but the clever trick is that it sounds like it *could* or
even should be a name, and possibly a middle-European one; Gabriel
obviously thought so and reinforced this idea by making Moribund a
Burgermeister.

We get an instant idea of Moribund; pinched, middle-aged,
mean-spirited, out of his time. The stuff Tony dug up about Sydenham's
chorea I didn't know, I really must look the song up. It comes from
Gabriel's first album, where there's still hangovers from the kind of
lyric writing he produced for Genesis (a band I worshiped as a
teenager) - some might say over-literary. This was before punk changed
everything, and we noticed it was all, of course, Only Rock n Roll.

DC

--

[Jerry Friedman]

On 3/26/16 1:18 AM, Django Cat wrote:
> Jerry Friedman wrote:
>
>> On 3/24/16 4:20 PM, Stefan Ram wrote:
>>> Tony Cooper <tonyco...@gmail.com> writes:
>>>> As to your other question, why a comma? Should there be a comma
>>>> in John the Baptist? Mott The Hoople?
>>>
>>> I believe that the comma should be there when »moribund«
>>> is an adjective.
>>>
>>> But you are now telling me that »Moribund« here is a name,
>>> not an adjective.
>>>
>>> First, I thought that nobody could be given such a name,
>>> but maybe the idea of the name is to remind his carrier
>>> that he is mortal.
>>>
>>> But the idea of »moribund« seems to include that someone
>>> will die not within some decades but within some days.
>>> So it would still be strange to give someone this name.
>>
>> You're not supposed to imagine a realistic story. The name is no
>> more plausible than some in old-fashioned English literature: Lord
>> Hate-Good, Peachum ("peach" meant "inform the authorities of
>> someone's crime"), Prunesquallor, etc. Presumably Gabriel thought
>> the sound and meaning of "Moribund" made the right suggestions.

...

> I don't know the song,

You should probably listen to Gabriel's first album on YouTube
immediately. Then you will find out.

> but I've known *of* it since it came out, and
> it's always struck me a great idea. 'Moribund' is, obviously, an
> adjective, but the clever trick is that it sounds like it *could* or
> even should be a name, and possibly a middle-European one; Gabriel
> obviously thought so and reinforced this idea by making Moribund a
> Burgermeister.
>
> We get an instant idea of Moribund; pinched, middle-aged,
> mean-spirited, out of his time. The stuff Tony dug up about Sydenham's
> chorea I didn't know, I really must look the song up.

I didn't know it either. That makes the second PG song whose lyrics I
liked better before knowing what inspired them. (The first is "Here
Comes the Flood.)

> It comes from
> Gabriel's first album, where there's still hangovers from the kind of
> lyric writing he produced for Genesis (a band I worshiped as a
> teenager) -

Not unwisely.

> some might say over-literary.

I don't think he was the only member of Genesis doing that. For
instance, "Ripples", on /Trick of the Tail/, alludes to John Crowe
Ransome's poem "Blue Girls". Some others might say those songs were
just literary enough.

> This was before punk changed
> everything, and we noticed it was all, of course, Only Rock n Roll.

Gabriel too still wrote some literary lyrics. "Mercy Street" on his
fourth album is about Anne Sexton.

[Unknown]

> > but I've known of it since it came out, and

> > it's always struck me a great idea. 'Moribund' is, obviously, an

> > adjective, but the clever trick is that it sounds like it could or

> > even should be a name, and possibly a middle-European one; Gabriel
> > obviously thought so and reinforced this idea by making Moribund a
> > Burgermeister.
> >
> > We get an instant idea of Moribund; pinched, middle-aged,
> > mean-spirited, out of his time. The stuff Tony dug up about
> > Sydenham's chorea I didn't know, I really must look the song up.
>
> I didn't know it either. That makes the second PG song whose lyrics
> I liked better before knowing what inspired them. (The first is
> "Here Comes the Flood.)
>
> > It comes from
> > Gabriel's first album, where there's still hangovers from the kind
> > of lyric writing he produced for Genesis (a band I worshiped as a
> > teenager) -
>
> Not unwisely.
>
> > some might say over-literary.
>
> I don't think he was the only member of Genesis doing that. For
> instance, "Ripples", on /Trick of the Tail/, alludes to John Crowe
> Ransome's poem "Blue Girls". Some others might say those songs were
> just literary enough.

Hmm.. a lot of 'The Lamb Lies down' got a bit silly, and, as we might
say in BrE, 'sixth-form'...

Trick of the Tail was the last Genesis album I bought when it came out,
and I still don't own any other post-Gabriel ones. Without him they
lost the quirky, eccentric Englishness I loved them for, and Phil
Collins has always made my flesh crawl (except as a drummer). With TotT
they were very clearly trying to write songs in the Gabriel style, not
that successfully I thought, and 'technique for its own sake' prog rock
I found increasingly less interesting.

I followed Gabriel's solo career in the 80s, and saw him a couple of
times, including touring that first album, and do remember him playing
Moribund. Still can't tell you how the tune goes or any of the lyrics,
mind...

>
> > This was before punk changed
> > everything, and we noticed it was all, of course, Only Rock n Roll.
>
> Gabriel too still wrote some literary lyrics. "Mercy Street" on his
> fourth album is about Anne Sexton.

Someone I'd never heard of and have now Wikied. You can learn a lot
from AUE...

DC

--