Fool/Idiot/Moron/Cretin etc
Fool/Idiot
dumb for fool, idiot, cretin, moron, imbecile and relevant others?
Raymond S. Wise
news:b704fc0.03032...@posting.google.com...
> Simple question: What is the order of ranking, from brightest to most
> dumb for fool, idiot, cretin, moron, imbecile and relevant others?
From the point of view of psychology, there is no ranking, since "idiot,"
"moron," and "imbecile" are no longer in technical use, "fool" has never
been a technical term, and "cretin" simply means a sufferer of cretinism and
does not indicate a specific level of mental functioning (and as a technical
term, is probably on its way out).
Speaking non-technically, they're all basically the same except for "fool,"
which can be used for someone of any intelligence level. It is used to
describe someone with a lack of judgment rather than a lack of intelligence.
--
Raymond S. Wise
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
E-mail: mplsray @ yahoo . com
Mike Lyle
See the (Br?) expression "You're being a fool to yourself". And in Br
the original sense of "fool" survives in dialect, and not just in the
Beatles track *The fool on the hill*.
Mike.
Edward
> Simple question: What is the order of ranking, from brightest to most
> dumb for fool, idiot, cretin, moron, imbecile and relevant others?
Why? Are you writing a paper about George Bush? There are plenty of
other nouns that apply - adjectives too.
Edward
Fool/Idiot
> other nouns that apply - adjectives too.
>
> Edward
No. But if he is reelected I will repost my question with a little
modification - rank the following: fool, idiot, cretin, moron,
imbecile, and yank.
trailstyle
Charles Riggs
made history, by writing:
Rank this, troll: Plonk.
--
Charles Riggs
For email, take the air out of aircom and
replace it with eir
Charles Riggs
history, by writing:
Nah, not our man George. All five apply well to Lars Eighner.
Mike Lyle
You reckon the Southern vote's safe for the Democrats, then?
Mike.
Robert Bannister
At very best, that was completely uncalled for. Whatever you may think
of Bush or of the US government, that should not include all or even
most Americans.
--
Rob Bannister
Hedberg
True enough. Most Americans who voted in 2000 voted for someone other
than Bush. That's also true of Gore.
Harold
Hedberg
wrote:
>On 26 Mar 2003 07:13:03 -0800, teddy...@hotmail.com (Edward) made
>history, by writing:
>
>>fooli...@hotmail.com (Fool/Idiot) wrote in message news:<b704fc0.03032...@posting.google.com>...
>>> Simple question: What is the order of ranking, from brightest to most
>>> dumb for fool, idiot, cretin, moron, imbecile and relevant others?
>>
>>Why? Are you writing a paper about George Bush? There are plenty of
>>other nouns that apply - adjectives too.
>
>Nah, not our man George. All five apply well to Lars Eighner.
And you wonder why people attack you from behind?
Harold
Steve Hayes
>Simple question: What is the order of ranking, from brightest to most
>dumb for fool, idiot, cretin, moron, imbecile and relevant others?
In some psychological theories, morons rate higher than imbeciles and
imbeciles higher than idiots. Cretins are those who suffer thyroid problems,
and their brightness may vary.
In a more general sense idiots are something else, fools may be highly
intelligent, and cretins are loved by God.
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
Hedberg
wrote:
>[...] Cretins are those who suffer thyroid problems,
>and their brightness may vary.
>
Cretinism is a thyroid problem, true, but there are many others. Only
a small portion of people with thyroid problems are cretins. Most
cretins have no thyroid problem at all, but that's another topic.
What cretinism is is the effect of extremely prolonged untreated
thyroid hormone deficiency (hypothyroidism). It used to be more
common in certain remote and landlocked European countries where the
diets were almost completely devoid of iodine (which is available in
seafood). I would think that true cretinism would be very rare today
because of iodized salt and much better medical understanding of
thyroid function. When I was a kid in the 50s, we got "goiter pills"
every day probably through 6th grade. It was a little chocolate
flavored iodine tablet.
>In a more general sense idiots are something else, fools may be highly
>intelligent, and cretins are loved by God.
If God loves cretins, why did he afflict them with such a terrible
condition? Just a test, I suppose.
Harold
Simon R. Hughes
> What cretinism is is the effect of extremely prolonged untreated
> thyroid hormone deficiency (hypothyroidism).
Cretinism is congenital: the thyroxine deficiency in the mother's
womb prohibits normal development. Non-congenital hypothyroidism, as
far as I know, and my condition is particularly acute (TSH? >100),
and went untreated for God-knows-how-long (it turns out it wasn't
cynicism after all, for those who remember that side of me), does
not lead to retardation (if I may still use that word).
At least, I hope it doesn't.
> >In a more general sense idiots are something else, fools may be highly
> >intelligent, and cretins are loved by God.
>
> If God loves cretins, why did he afflict them with such a terrible
> condition? Just a test, I suppose.
If your world view tells you that the Bible constitutes a reliable
testimony to the nature of God, you are also likely to believe that
the devil causes sickness.
--
Simon R. Hughes
War is peace!
Hedberg
<shu...@tromso.online.no> wrote:
>Thus Spake Hedberg:
>
>> What cretinism is is the effect of extremely prolonged untreated
>> thyroid hormone deficiency (hypothyroidism).
>
>Cretinism is congenital: the thyroxine deficiency in the mother's
>womb prohibits normal development.
That, I did not know.
>Non-congenital hypothyroidism, as
>far as I know, and my condition is particularly acute (TSH? >100),
>and went untreated for God-knows-how-long (it turns out it wasn't
>cynicism after all, for those who remember that side of me), does
>not lead to retardation (if I may still use that word).
My situation is probably similar to yours.
>
>> >In a more general sense idiots are something else, fools may be highly
>> >intelligent, and cretins are loved by God.
>>
>> If God loves cretins, why did he afflict them with such a terrible
>> condition? Just a test, I suppose.
>
>If your world view tells you that the Bible constitutes a reliable
>testimony to the nature of God, you are also likely to believe that
>the devil causes sickness.
It's not my view, world or other.
Harold
Steve Hayes
>>In a more general sense idiots are something else, fools may be highly
>>intelligent, and cretins are loved by God.
>
>If God loves cretins, why did he afflict them with such a terrible
>condition? Just a test, I suppose.
I think you miss the point.
The word "cretin" is a corruption of "Christian", and was a reminder that
mentally defective people should be treated with compassion.
Christopher Green
> On Thu, 27 Mar 2003 12:14:20 -0600, Hedberg <hhed...@swbell.net> wrote:
>
> >>In a more general sense idiots are something else, fools may be highly
> >>intelligent, and cretins are loved by God.
> >
> >If God loves cretins, why did he afflict them with such a terrible
> >condition? Just a test, I suppose.
>
> I think you miss the point.
>
> The word "cretin" is a corruption of "Christian", and was a reminder that
> mentally defective people should be treated with compassion.
A straight rendering of the French "chretien", exactly "Christian";
the term "bon chretien" was current for these unfortunates in the
Savoy and in French-speaking Switzerland when endemic congenital
hypothyroidism came into the public eye.
"Moron", "feebleminded", "imbecile", and "idiot" are now discredited
but used to be standard clinical terms expressing varying degrees of
mental retardation: "moron" denoted the most intelligent, capable of
making his or her way in society; "idiot" the least, requiring
lifelong institutional care. The coiner of most of these terms, Dr.
Henry Goddard, himself recognized the need to avoid using intelligence
tests for diagnosis and the harm done by labeling patients this way;
and the terms have been out of use for more than 50 years.
"Fool" will be recognized by Christians as the epithet most likely to
backfire on the speaker (Matt. 5:22).
--
Chris Green
sand
Green) wrote:
>"Fool" will be recognized by Christians as the epithet most likely to
>backfire on the speaker (Matt. 5:22).
According to Google, St. Francis declared himself a "fool for God".
Perhaps this has something to do with the ancient tradition that
genius and insanity are related.
Jan Sand
Martin Ambuhl
I think this derives from 2 Corinthians 12:10-11
Therefore I take pleasures in infirmities, in reproaches, in
necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake : for when
I am weak, then am I strong.
I am become a fool in glorying; ye have compelled me: for I ought to
have been commended of you: for in nothing am I behind the very chiefest
apostles, though I be nothing.
and 1 Corinthians 3.18-19:
Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in
this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.
For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God.
Jacqui
> According to Google, St. Francis declared himself a "fool for God".
> Perhaps this has something to do with the ancient tradition that
> genius and insanity are related.
I find this post comes complete with background soundtrack by
Whitesnake. Strange.
Jac
Mike Lyle
[...]
> A straight rendering of the French "chretien", exactly "Christian";
> the term "bon chretien" was current for these unfortunates in the
> Savoy and in French-speaking Switzerland when endemic congenital
> hypothyroidism came into the public eye.
Has this any bearing on the "Williams Bon Chrétien" pear?
Mike.
Hedberg
wrote:
>On Thu, 27 Mar 2003 12:14:20 -0600, Hedberg <hhed...@swbell.net> wrote:
>
>>>In a more general sense idiots are something else, fools may be highly
>>>intelligent, and cretins are loved by God.
>>
>>If God loves cretins, why did he afflict them with such a terrible
>>condition? Just a test, I suppose.
>
>I think you miss the point.
>
You are right, I did, though my question remains.
Harold
Mike Lyle
heard their music, but always meant to ask somebody if there was some
kind of racist thing involved. Could you explain, please?
Mike.
Jacqui
> Jacqui wrote
>>
>> > According to Google, St. Francis declared himself a "fool for
>> > God". Perhaps this has something to do with the ancient
>> > tradition that genius and insanity are related.
>>
>> I find this post comes complete with background soundtrack by
>> Whitesnake. Strange.
>>
> OT: I often wondered about Whitesnake's name. I've never knowingly
> heard their music, but always meant to ask somebody if there was
> some kind of racist thing involved. Could you explain, please?
I have always assumed it to be a "trouser snake" reference, David
Coverdale being fond of showing himself off in spandex...
David Coverdale released a solo album called White Snake after leaving
Deep Purple (in 1976), but definitively why it was called that, and why
he took the band name from it, I couldn't tell you.
Jac
Simon R. Hughes
Chinese folklore.
--
Simon R. Hughes
War is Peace!
Simon R. Hughes
I found this:
<http://www.angelfire.com/darkside/ladywhitesnake/history.html>
Don Aitken
Green) wrote:
>"Moron", "feebleminded", "imbecile", and "idiot" are now discredited
>but used to be standard clinical terms expressing varying degrees of
>mental retardation: "moron" denoted the most intelligent, capable of
>making his or her way in society; "idiot" the least, requiring
>lifelong institutional care. The coiner of most of these terms, Dr.
>Henry Goddard, himself recognized the need to avoid using intelligence
>tests for diagnosis and the harm done by labeling patients this way;
>and the terms have been out of use for more than 50 years.
>
No so much discredited as renamed. In the UK, the Mental Health Act
1959 replaced "feeble-minded" and "imbecile" with "subnormal", and
"idiot" with "severely subnormal". At the same time "lunacy" became
"mental illness". These changes, of course, were for legal purposes,
and lagged a long way behind the usages current among the medical
profession. There have been at least two other renamings since then.
--
Don Aitken
Isabelle Cecchini
news:3fa4d950.03032...@posting.google.com
[...]
>
> Has this any bearing on the "Williams Bon Chrétien" pear?
Information on that pear here:
http://www.ars-grin.gov/ars/PacWest/Corvallis/ncgr/cool/oldpears.html
It debunks the story I was told about the bon-chrétien pear-tree being
brought as a gift to French King Louis XI --a very cruel king, who had
become quite rightly worried about the state of his soul-- by Saint
François de Paule, a "bon chrétien".
The "panchresma" connection mentioned is doubted by the very good French
dictionary at
http://atilf.inalf.fr/tlfv3.htm, which admits it's all very mysterious.
--
Isabelle Cecchini
Raymond S. Wise
news:b62ej2$157ak$1...@ID-68874.news.dfncis.de...
The *Trésor de la Langue Française Informatisé,* which says of the word
"crétin" that it was first used for victims of cretinism in the Valois (a
canton of Switzerland) in 1750.
The *Dictionnaire Étymologique et Historique de la Langue Française* by
Emmanuèle Baumgartner and Philippe Ménard says that the relevant sense of
"crétin" from which the victim-of-cretinism was derived was "innocent."
I've seen various other explanations, including that the use of the term was
to emphasize that, even though of subnormal mental ability, cretins were
nevertheless people--"chrétiens" being used for people in somewhat the same
sense that "souls" is used to mean people.
"Cretin" is a surname in France. I've known one Minnesotan of French
ancestry with that name, and there is also a "Cretin Avenue" in St. Paul,
and a "Cretin-Derham Hall High School," which was formed by merging "Derham
Hall High School," a Catholic, all-girl high school and "Cretin High
School," a military high school for boys run by the Christian Brothers.
--
Raymond S. Wise
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
E-mail: mplsray @ yahoo . com
Larry Phillips
Religions, even American ones, do irony exceedingly well.
Larry
---
There are 10 kinds of people --
those who understand binary, and those who don't.
-- Uncle Phil
Larry Phillips
>haye...@yahoo.com (Steve Hayes) wrote in message news:<3e83c1ac....@news.saix.net>...
>> The word "cretin" is a corruption of "Christian", and was a reminder that
>> mentally defective people should be treated with compassion.
>
>A straight rendering of the French "chretien", exactly "Christian";
>the term "bon chretien" was current for these unfortunates in the
>Savoy and in French-speaking Switzerland when endemic congenital
>hypothyroidism came into the public eye.
A significant portion of the people of our country certainly
recognizes the Chretien in charge of our country as being somewhat of
a moron, or alternatively, as a malevolent asshole.
Mike Lyle
Many thanks, Jac and Simon. We have a Lady of the Lake legend in
Carmarthen, too: she left her mortal husband after he had struck her
three times -- I think it was once for crying at a funeral, once for
laughing at a wedding, and once for doing something at a baptism --
and took back into the lake all the high-bred black livestock which
were her dowry, even including the calf which had just been
slaughtered but came back to life at her bidding. She came back at
intervals to instruct her sons -- the place is still identified -- in
medicine, and they became the famous Physicians of Myddfai whose
recipes still exist. One day of the year, perhaps even next Sunday,
but I'll have to check, it's said you can go and sometimes watch the
waters of the lake boil: it used apparently to be a popular outing.
Certainly the place is strange: the wind effects are anomalous.
I take it to be in part at least a memory of the mingling of pagan
lake-dwellers having superior breeds of cattle with Christian forest
folk or something like that.
Mike.
Mike Lyle
Many thanks. I note a reference to the Black Pear of Worcester, a
variety I'd never heard of: but the arms of Worcester bear black pears
on gold, and it had vaguely crossed my mind that black was a strange
colour for pears. All is now clear.
Thanks also for the French dictionary link, which I've favourited.
Mike.
david56
> Many thanks. I note a reference to the Black Pear of Worcester, a
> variety I'd never heard of: but the arms of Worcester bear black pears
> on gold, and it had vaguely crossed my mind that black was a strange
> colour for pears. All is now clear.
My school badge (on my blazer, of course) had three pears amongst other
devices, but we didn't know they were meant to be black.
--
David
I say what it occurs to me to say.
=====
The address is valid today, but I will change it to keep ahead of the
spammers.