Euphemisms for "impotence"
Reinhold (Rey) Aman
Then came "erectile disfunction" and "E.D." (via Viagra).
Now it's called "performance concerns" (via Instatab).
What's next? "Infelicitous flaccidity"?
--
Reinhold (Rey) Aman
Who's stiffly opposed to most euphemisms
Arcadian Rises
writes:
>
>What's next? "Infelicitous flaccidity"?
>
>--
Involuntary flaccidity.
Martin Ambuhl
> This condition used to be called "impotence."
> Then came "erectile disfunction" and "E.D." (via Viagra).
> Now it's called "performance concerns" (via Instatab).
> What's next? "Infelicitous flaccidity"?
Dole's syndrome.
Lars Eighner
<406F692C...@sonic.net>,
the lovely and talented Reinhold (Rey) Aman
broadcast on alt.usage.english:
> This condition used to be called "impotence."
> Then came "erectile disfunction" and "E.D." (via Viagra).
> Now it's called "performance concerns" (via Instatab).
> What's next? "Infelicitous flaccidity"?
I don't want to know. I have recently discovered that I have been
impotent my whole life. I heard a guy in a white coat explaining the
blue hardon pill. He said that if you can achieve an erection in the
basement and maintain it until you get to the attic, then you are
adequately potent, but otherwise you need the pill. Silly me. I
always thought if it was there when you were ready to use it, that
was okay. I never even suspected that I was suffering from
parading-around-the-house impotence. When I was younger and stronger
and could do it standing up while holding my partner up off the floor -
well, I thought that was pretty studly. I didn't know I was supposed
to climb stairs! And I never had a basement. I seldom had an attic.
I guess word of stuff like that gets around and that is why I get
all those e-mails now.
--
Lars Eighner -finger for geek code- eig...@io.com http://www.io.com/~eighner/
"The very essence of the creative is its novelty, and hence we have no
standard by which to judge it." --Carl R. Rogers, On Becoming a Person
Tony Cooper
wrote:
>In our last episode,
><406F692C...@sonic.net>,
>the lovely and talented Reinhold (Rey) Aman
>broadcast on alt.usage.english:
>
>> This condition used to be called "impotence."
>
>> Then came "erectile disfunction" and "E.D." (via Viagra).
>
>> Now it's called "performance concerns" (via Instatab).
>
>> What's next? "Infelicitous flaccidity"?
>
>I don't want to know. I have recently discovered that I have been
>impotent my whole life. I heard a guy in a white coat explaining the
>blue hardon pill. He said that if you can achieve an erection in the
>basement and maintain it until you get to the attic, then you are
>adequately potent, but otherwise you need the pill. Silly me. I
>always thought if it was there when you were ready to use it, that
>was okay. I never even suspected that I was suffering from
>parading-around-the-house impotence. When I was younger and stronger
>and could do it standing up while holding my partner up off the floor -
>well, I thought that was pretty studly. I didn't know I was supposed
>to climb stairs! And I never had a basement. I seldom had an attic.
>I guess word of stuff like that gets around and that is why I get
>all those e-mails now.
You know how medicines advertised on television have that voice-over
that lists the possible side effects: vomiting, diarrhea, vaginal
discharge, headaches, dizziness, and on an on?
There's one that says that erections lasting for over four hours are
uncommon, and may require a doctor's treatment. Man! If there ever
was a side effect that's a selling point, this is it.
Skitt
> You know how medicines advertised on television have that voice-over
> that lists the possible side effects: vomiting, diarrhea, vaginal
> discharge, headaches, dizziness, and on an on?
>
> There's one that says that erections lasting for over four hours are
> uncommon, and may require a doctor's treatment. Man! If there ever
> was a side effect that's a selling point, this is it.
Right. The one that gets me, though, is the one for an allergy suppressant
pill. It states that the side effects are similar to those of a sugar pill,
but then goes on to mention three symptoms very unlike anything I would
expect from a sugar pill. Come to think of it, after taking a sugar pill I
wouldn't expect any symptoms at all. Well, maybe a sweet taste in my mouth
for a few seconds.
--
Skitt (in Hayward, California)
www.geocities.com/opus731/
Raymond S. Wise
news:jrsu609953ig6begn...@4ax.com...
From a March 16, 2004 article entitled "Man In Hospital With 6 Day Erection
Problem Becomes Tourist Attraction"
From
http://www.shortnews.com/shownews.cfm?id=37874&u_id=56352&CFID=354306&CFTOKEN=25277685
"The 25 year old man was told by doctors that urgent surgery was required
otherwise he could be left impotent."
In this case, the man specifically denied taking sexual stimulants. I wonder
if the risk of impotency is the main reason that a doctor's treatment may be
recommended when sexual stimulants prove to be too effective.
--
Raymond S. Wise
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
E-mail: mplsray @ yahoo . com
R H Draney
Male-pattern softness....r
John Varela
> Right. The one that gets me, though, is the one for an allergy suppressant
> pill. It states that the side effects are similar to those of a sugar pill,
> but then goes on to mention three symptoms very unlike anything I would
> expect from a sugar pill. Come to think of it, after taking a sugar pill I
> wouldn't expect any symptoms at all. Well, maybe a sweet taste in my mouth
> for a few seconds.
Post hoc, ergo propter hoc?
--
John Varela
(Trade "OLD" lamps for "NEW" for email.)
I apologize for munging the address but the spam was too much.
Skitt
> "Skitt" wrote:
>> Right. The one that gets me, though, is the one for an allergy
>> suppressant pill. It states that the side effects are similar to
>> those of a sugar pill, but then goes on to mention three symptoms
>> very unlike anything I would expect from a sugar pill. Come to
>> think of it, after taking a sugar pill I wouldn't expect any
>> symptoms at all. Well, maybe a sweet taste in my mouth for a few
>> seconds.
>
> Post hoc, ergo propter hoc?
Ah, I found the product and its *written* disclaimer:
=============
Claritin
Important Safety Information
The most common side effects with CLARITIN® (loratadine) Tablets 10 mg
occurred about as often as they did with a sugar pill, including headache,
drowsiness, fatigue, and dry mouth.
=============
The TV ad puts it a little differently, as I showed my previous post, above.
Anyway, when a sugar pill would give me a headache, dry mouth, fatigue, and
drowsiness, there'd be something very wrong with me.
Frances Kemmish
I think that the point is that you wouldn't know that you were taking a
sugar pill.
Skitt
So, are they telling me that if I suffer any of the things mentioned after
taking Claritin, I'm imagining them? What, exactly, are they telling me?
That Claritin can have *no* side effects, at least none that a sugar pill
wouldn't have, which is *none*?
I know that some medicines caution against side effects that could be far
worse than the malady they are supposed to alleviate. I'm glad that I'm on
no medicine whatsoever.
Raymond S. Wise
news:c4pv69$2kmdih$2...@ID-17016.news.uni-berlin.de...
I just took a look at the definition of "placebo effect" in several online
general dictionaries. Only one, the dictionary at www.infoplease.com ,
mentioned this aspect of the effect:
From
http://www.infoplease.com/ipd/A0590884.html
[quote]
pla·ce'bo effect"
[...]
a reaction to a placebo manifested by a lessening of symptoms or the
production of anticipated side effects.
[end quote]
The online medical dictionary at
http://cancerweb.ncl.ac.uk/cgi-bin/omd?placebo+effect
also mentioned it:
[quote]
placebo effect
An effect usually, but not necessarily, beneficial that is attributable to
an expectation that the regimen will have an effect, i.e., the effect is due
to the power of suggestion.
[end quote]
An online version of the *Dorland's Illustrated Medical Dictionary* also
deals with the matter.
or
[quote]
*placebo effect,* the sum total of all nonspecific effects, both good and
adverse, of medical treatment, primarily psychological and
psychophysiological effects associated with the physician-patient
relationship and the patient's expectations and apprehensions concerning the
treatment.
[end quote]
It's a bit discouraging to me to realize that the reason that the makers of
Claritin refer to a "sugar pill" instead of a "placebo" is likely because
they are not confident that their audience understands what a placebo is.
I'm reminded of the following dialogue from *The Simpsons* when their was an
epidemic of a new flu in Springfield:
From
http://www.snpp.com/episodes/9F20.html
[quote]
_An angry crowd has gathered outside the Hibbert Medical Clinic..._
Crowd: We need a cure! We need a cure!
Hibbert: Ho ho ho. Why, the only cure is bedrest.
Anything I give you would be a placebo.
Woman: [frantic] Where can we get these placebos?
[end quote]
Dr Robin Bignall
Probably. A man in that condition might trip over and break something
precious.
--
wrmst rgrds
Robin Bignall
Quiet part of Hertfordshire
England
Maria Conlon
> Skitt wrote:
>>
>> =============
>> Claritin
>> Important Safety Information
>> The most common side effects with CLARITIN® (loratadine) Tablets 10
>> mg occurred about as often as they did with a sugar pill, including
>> headache, drowsiness, fatigue, and dry mouth.
>> =============
>>
>> The TV ad puts it a little differently, as I showed my previous
>> post, above. Anyway, when a sugar pill would give me a headache, dry
>> mouth, fatigue, and drowsiness, there'd be something very wrong with
>> me.
>
> I think that the point is that you wouldn't know that you were taking
> a sugar pill.
What I'd like to know is this: How common is it to take a "sugar pill"?
I don't believe I have ever taken one (or -- thank you, Fran -- have
ever *knowingly* taken one).
Is a "sugar pill" made of sugar? If so, giving it to people without
their knowledge could be a big mistake. Some people aren't too good at
tolerating sugar.
Also: "Sugar pill" = "placebo"? If so, is a "placebo" in pill form
always a "sugar pill"?
If we get around to discussing the idea of prescription medicine being
advertised on television, I will have something to say about the
ubiquitous "Ask your doctor if [product] is right for you."
--
Maria Conlon
Eat well, stay fit, die anyway.
Donna Richoux
That's the way I read it. They're saying, basically, that people suffer
a fair amount from "headache, drowsiness, fatigue, and dry mouth" for no
particular reason. The amount they suffer these things after Claritin is
the same as the amount they suffer them after a meaningless event
(taking a sugar pill). So, in effect, Claritin has no real side effects.
I think it's an interesting way of putting it. I hope this idea of
reminding people of the existence of coincidence will catch on.
--
Best -- Donna Richoux
Lars Eighner
<c4q40c$2le72p$1...@ID-113669.news.uni-berlin.de>,
the lovely and talented Maria Conlon
broadcast on alt.usage.english:
> Frances Kemmish wrote:
>> Skitt wrote:
>>>
>>> Ah, I found the product and its *written* disclaimer:
>>> =============
>>> Claritin
>>> Important Safety Information
>>> The most common side effects with CLARITIN® (loratadine) Tablets 10
>>> mg occurred about as often as they did with a sugar pill, including
>>> headache, drowsiness, fatigue, and dry mouth.
>>> =============
>>>
>>> The TV ad puts it a little differently, as I showed my previous
>>> post, above. Anyway, when a sugar pill would give me a headache, dry
>>> mouth, fatigue, and drowsiness, there'd be something very wrong with
>>> me.
>>
>> I think that the point is that you wouldn't know that you were taking
>> a sugar pill.
> What I'd like to know is this: How common is it to take a "sugar pill"?
> I don't believe I have ever taken one (or -- thank you, Fran -- have
> ever *knowingly* taken one).
There would be no point in taking one knowingly.
> Is a "sugar pill" made of sugar? If so, giving it to people without
> their knowledge could be a big mistake. Some people aren't too good at
> tolerating sugar.
> Also: "Sugar pill" = "placebo"? If so, is a "placebo" in pill form
> always a "sugar pill"?
"Sugar pill" is just the dumbed-down word for "placebo." It doesn't
mean it is made of sugar. Placebos may contain sugar and other
supposedly pharmacologically inert substances. Such substances are
typically used as fillers (dyes, coatings, glazes, etc.) in the
drug-bearing pills. In drug studies, the placebo is just the pill
minus the active ingredient, so as to appear similar to the drug to
both patient and the person who administers the pill.
I don't know that anyone is actually allergic to sugar, and
the amount of sugar (even if the whole pill was sugar) would
not be of dietary significance.
I can't find anything on the web about CEBO Caps, which was/is
a placebo that physicians could prescribe for patients. It
came in several colors and looked like time-release cold
capsules. Patients in drug studies don't get these. They
get the mock-up of the actual drug and they are informed that
there is a chance they are receiving a placebo.
> If we get around to discussing the idea of prescription medicine being
> advertised on television, I will have something to say about the
> ubiquitous "Ask your doctor if [product] is right for you."
--
Frances Kemmish
> Frances Kemmish wrote:
>
>>Skitt wrote:
>>
>>>Ah, I found the product and its *written* disclaimer:
>>>=============
>>>Claritin
>>>Important Safety Information
>>>The most common side effects with CLARITIN® (loratadine) Tablets 10
>>>mg occurred about as often as they did with a sugar pill, including
>>>headache, drowsiness, fatigue, and dry mouth.
>>>=============
>>>
>>>The TV ad puts it a little differently, as I showed my previous
>>>post, above. Anyway, when a sugar pill would give me a headache, dry
>>>mouth, fatigue, and drowsiness, there'd be something very wrong with
>>>me.
>>
>>I think that the point is that you wouldn't know that you were taking
>>a sugar pill.
>
>
> What I'd like to know is this: How common is it to take a "sugar pill"?
> I don't believe I have ever taken one (or -- thank you, Fran -- have
> ever *knowingly* taken one).
>
WHen the advertisements talk about reactions to drugs and comparisons to
'sugar pills", I assume they are talking about the results of clinical
trials. In those trials, none of the subjects would know whether they
were getting the real drug, or a sugar pill.
> Is a "sugar pill" made of sugar? If so, giving it to people without
> their knowledge could be a big mistake. Some people aren't too good at
> tolerating sugar.
>
I assume that the people vetting subjects in drug trials would avoid
giving sugar pills to people who tolerate sugar.
> Also: "Sugar pill" = "placebo"? If so, is a "placebo" in pill form
> always a "sugar pill"?
>
A placebo is not necessarily a sugar pill - just something innocuous.
Fran
Frances Kemmish
> I assume that the people vetting subjects in drug trials would avoid
> giving sugar pills to people who tolerate sugar.
>
who CAN'T tolerate sugar...
Frances Kemmish
They are telling you about the results of clinical trials, i think. Some
people got the real drug, and some of those reported side effects. Some
others got the sugar pill, and some of those reported side effects.
> I know that some medicines caution against side effects that could be far
> worse than the malady they are supposed to alleviate. I'm glad that I'm on
> no medicine whatsoever.
Fran
eating sugar cookies
R H Draney
>
>If we get around to discussing the idea of prescription medicine being
>advertised on television, I will have something to say about the
>ubiquitous "Ask your doctor if [product] is right for you."
We can discuss that when we get to the phrase that popped up in election ads for
both sides: "My name is <candidate> and I approved this ad"...I assume it's in
response to some ad a candidate *didn't* approve and got in trouble for, but I
don't remember hearing any of the details....r
Raymond S. Wise
news:c4ql8...@drn.newsguy.com...
I remember hearing that it was a requirement added in the latest campaign
reform laws. I presume that at least part of the thinking behind it is that
it is hoped the requirement will discourage some of the more disgusting
mudslinging.
Mark Brader
>>>> Important Safety Information
>>>> The most common side effects with CLARITIN® (loratadine) Tablets 10
>>>> mg occurred about as often as they did with a sugar pill, including
>>>> headache, drowsiness, fatigue, and dry mouth.
Frances Kemmish writes:
> They are telling you about the results of clinical trials, i think. Some
> people got the real drug, and some of those reported side effects. Some
> others got the sugar pill, and some of those reported side effects.
Agreed. But the wording is confusing in its use of the word "effect".
If you call something a side effect, you are making a statement about
its cause. It's possible that in some people drowsiness and fatigue
will result from *taking* any pill, for psychological reasons, but
the pill itself isn't going to cause those effects if it's a sugar pill.
So they can't properly be described as side effects. And similarly,
if (as the trials suggest but do not prove) Claritin doesn't cause those
symptoms, then they aren't side effects of it either.
"Side effect" seems to be being abused here to mean "symptom that was
evaluated as a possible side effect". And the designation of the
statement as "important safety information", when it's actually saying
that there is no evidence of a hazard to safety, is ridiculous -- my
guess on this is that some safety Nazi, either in the company or in the
relevant government agency, decreed at some time that any statement
about side effects must appear under that title.
--
Mark Brader | "Europe contains a great many cathedrals, which were
Toronto | caused by the Middle Ages, which means they are very old,
m...@vex.net | so you have to take color slide photographs of them."
| -- Dave Barry
My text in this article is in the public domain.
Donna Richoux
> We can discuss that when we get to the phrase that popped up in election
> ads for both sides: "My name is <candidate> and I approved this ad"...I
> assume it's in response to some ad a candidate *didn't* approve and got in
> trouble for, but I don't remember hearing any of the details....r
Me neither, but is it because it has started to happen that one side
makes ads that superficially look like they are commercials by the
opposing candidate, but are really sneaky propaganda designed to make
that person look bad? So it's like a signature, a stamp of
authorization? To show who is talking?
I saw the beginning of one the other day. It started off looking like a
John Kerry commercial, but then it began to say sweetly nasty things
about him. Almost like a clever parody of a campaign ad, but for real. I
didn't see the whole thing, as it was part of a news show here about the
campaign. I hope it ended with Bush's voice saying he approved this, but
I bet it was funded in such a way that authorization wasn't required.
--
This postmodern age --- Donna Richoux
Dena Jo
> R H Draney <dado...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> We can discuss that when we get to the phrase that popped up in
>> election ads for both sides: "My name is <candidate> and I
>> approved this ad"...I assume it's in response to some ad a
>> candidate *didn't* approve and got in trouble for, but I don't
>> remember hearing any of the details....r
>
> Me neither
I recall it had something to do with accusations of subliminal
advertising, but I can't bring the details into focus.
--
Dena Jo
Email goes to denajo2 at the dot com variation of the Yahoo domain.
Have I confused you? Go here:
http://myweb.cableone.net/denajo/emailme.htm
Maria Conlon
> R H Draney wrote:
>> Maria Conlon filted:
>>>
>>> If we get around to discussing the idea of prescription medicine
>>> being advertised on television, I will have something to say about
>>> the ubiquitous "Ask your doctor if [product] is right for you."
>>
>> We can discuss that when we get to the phrase that popped up in
>> election ads for both sides: "My name is <candidate> and I approved
>> this ad"...I assume it's in response to some ad a candidate *didn't*
>> approve and got in trouble for, but I don't remember hearing any of
>> the details....r
>
> I remember hearing that it was a requirement added in the latest
> campaign reform laws.
That's my understanding, too. I don't know the details, though.
>.........I presume that at least part of the thinking
> behind it is that it is hoped the requirement will discourage some of
> the more disgusting mudslinging.
Whether that was part of the thinking or not, I think the law will have
that effect.
--
Maria Conlon
Politics. It's all politics.
Christopher Green
> The makers of Claritin write:
> >>>> Important Safety Information
> >>>> The most common side effects with CLARITIN® (loratadine) Tablets 10
> >>>> mg occurred about as often as they did with a sugar pill, including
> >>>> headache, drowsiness, fatigue, and dry mouth.
>
> Frances Kemmish writes:
> > They are telling you about the results of clinical trials, i think. Some
> > people got the real drug, and some of those reported side effects. Some
> > others got the sugar pill, and some of those reported side effects.
>
> Agreed. But the wording is confusing in its use of the word "effect".
> If you call something a side effect, you are making a statement about
> its cause. It's possible that in some people drowsiness and fatigue
> will result from *taking* any pill, for psychological reasons, but
> the pill itself isn't going to cause those effects if it's a sugar pill.
> So they can't properly be described as side effects. And similarly,
> if (as the trials suggest but do not prove) Claritin doesn't cause those
> symptoms, then they aren't side effects of it either.
>
> "Side effect" seems to be being abused here to mean "symptom that was
> evaluated as a possible side effect". And the designation of the
> statement as "important safety information", when it's actually saying
> that there is no evidence of a hazard to safety, is ridiculous -- my
> guess on this is that some safety Nazi, either in the company or in the
> relevant government agency, decreed at some time that any statement
> about side effects must appear under that title.
It's not being abused at all. If they report a side effect, it is
because that effect did appear in evaluations, and statistics
confirmed that it did appear more often than would be expected by
chance or placebo effect. That's as good a definition of side effect
as you're going to get.
Placebo effects are well-known in the drug business and are more or
less carefully controlled for in drug evaluations.
What you see in consumer advertising of prescription drugs is a
heavily dumbed-down version of the circulars that the drug companies
distribute to physicians, which go into great detail on the incidence
and severity of side effects observed in evaluation. This information
is indispensable, because physicians need it to determine when a
patient who presents with unusual signs and symptoms is actually
experiencing a side effect of a drug.
The alternative, which is allowing drug companies to advertise
medications without any warning that there are possible side effects,
is even less palatable than giving warning of rare side effects.
--
Chris Green
Robert Bannister
Vertically challenged.
--
Rob Bannister
Robert Bannister
Is this the same drug as the Claratyn I take for hay fever?
--
Rob Bannister
Reinhold (Rey) Aman
> Reinhold (Rey) Aman writes:
> >This condition used to be called "impotence."
> Isn't that a euphemism?
In a way, yes. For "soft-on."
--
Reinhold (Rey) Aman
Skitt
> Donna Richoux wrote:
Looks that way. It's actually loratadine at a higher price.
Martin Ambuhl
> Is this the same drug as the Claratyn I take for hay fever?
Claratyn and Claratin are both loratadine.
Skitt
Claritin.
Mark Brader
The makers of Claritin write:
> > >>>> Important Safety Information
> > >>>> The most common side effects with CLARITIN® (loratadine) Tablets 10
> > >>>> mg occurred about as often as they did with a sugar pill, including
> > >>>> headache, drowsiness, fatigue, and dry mouth.
I (Mark Brader) wrote (in part):
> > "Side effect" seems to be being abused here to mean "symptom that was
> > evaluated as a possible side effect".
> It's not being abused at all. If they report a side effect, it is
> because that effect did appear in evaluations, and statistics
> confirmed that it did appear more often than would be expected by
> chance or placebo effect. That's as good a definition of side effect
> as you're going to get.
>
> Placebo effects are well-known in the drug business and are more or
> less carefully controlled for in drug evaluations.
Exactly. But in this case the statement is asserting that these alleged
side effects *did not* occur more often than would be expected by chance
or placebo effect. And therefore...
> What you see in consumer advertising of prescription drugs is a
> heavily dumbed-down version of the circulars that the drug companies
> distribute to physicians...
I daresay. A second possibility is that the statement is dumbed-down
to the point of being misleading. This I didn't think would be allowed,
so I didn't consider it.
--
Mark Brader "I already checked, and there are 2147483647
Toronto natural numbers (I made a simple Java program
m...@vex.net to count them)." -- Risto Lankinen
Robert Bannister
> Robert Bannister wrote:
>>Is this the same drug as the Claratyn I take for hay fever?
>
>
> Looks that way. It's actually loratadine at a higher price.
I had to check the packet (it's actually spelt Claratyne), and you are
quite correct.
--
Rob Bannister
Avi Jacobson
> I had to check the packet (it's actually spelt Claratyne), and you are
> quite correct.
"Spelt" gives away that you are not a Merkin, and my news reader client says
you are an Ossie.
I imagine that when the Claritin/Claratyne folks did their market research,
they discovered (for example) that -tin made non-Merkin consumers think of
"tinned peas," or that "clari-" made them think of a wind instrument, or
that "-tyne" sounded impressively chemotechnological. Sort of why Chevolet
withdrew "Nova" from Spanish-speaking markets.
I was amazed the first time I saw Anadin (US: Anacin) at a UK chemist's
shop. And I believe there are many more such examples in the pharmaceutical
world.
Tony Cooper
wrote:
>>
>> I had to check the packet (it's actually spelt Claratyne), and you are
>> quite correct.
>
>"Spelt" gives away that you are not a Merkin, and my news reader client says
>you are an Ossie.
He's turned to stone? I'd write "Aussie", but pronounce it "Ozzie".
>
Raymond S. Wise
news:nUWcc.47450$aM4....@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com...
> >
> > I had to check the packet (it's actually spelt Claratyne), and you are
> > quite correct.
>
> "Spelt" gives away that you are not a Merkin, and my news reader client
says
> you are an Ossie.
>
> I imagine that when the Claritin/Claratyne folks did their market
research,
> they discovered (for example) that -tin made non-Merkin consumers think of
> "tinned peas," or that "clari-" made them think of a wind instrument, or
> that "-tyne" sounded impressively chemotechnological. Sort of why Chevolet
> withdrew "Nova" from Spanish-speaking markets.
The Nova business is an urban legend. See
http://spanish.about.com/library/weekly/aa072301a.htm
>
> I was amazed the first time I saw Anadin (US: Anacin) at a UK chemist's
> shop. And I believe there are many more such examples in the
pharmaceutical
> world.
Even the generic name "acetaminophen" is not used in the UK, where it's
referred to as "paracetamol."
Frances Kemmish
For some reason (probably the fact that I'm English) that sounds odd to me.
http://www.pharmweb.net/pwmirror/pwy/paracetamol/pharmwebpic5.html
When we first moved here, I recall trying to find paracetamol, and
eventually concluded that acetaminophen must be the same thing. Until
then, I hadn't realised that the UK generic (British Pharmacopoeia) name
would not be the same as the US generic name. Now I know that there are
several drugs which have different generic names - the only one I can
think of at the moment is pethidine/demarol.
Fran
Skitt
> Raymond S. Wise wrote:
>> Even the generic name "acetaminophen" is not used in the UK, where
>> it's referred to as "paracetamol."
>
> For some reason (probably the fact that I'm English) that sounds odd
> to me.
>
> http://www.pharmweb.net/pwmirror/pwy/paracetamol/pharmwebpic5.html
>
> When we first moved here, I recall trying to find paracetamol, and
> eventually concluded that acetaminophen must be the same thing. Until
> then, I hadn't realised that the UK generic (British Pharmacopoeia)
> name would not be the same as the US generic name. Now I know that
> there are several drugs which have different generic names - the only
> one I can think of at the moment is pethidine/demarol.
Demerol = meperidine = meperidine hydrochloride = pethidine
Robert Bannister
>>I had to check the packet (it's actually spelt Claratyne), and you are
>>quite correct.
>
>
> "Spelt" gives away that you are not a Merkin, and my news reader client says
> you are an Ossie.
True, although I've made a secret of it.
>
> I imagine that when the Claritin/Claratyne
The funny part is, according to the pharmacy, the pronunciation varies
between the spelt 'Clarra-tine' and 'Clarra-tin' - note the short 'a'
unlike the name 'Clara'.
folks did their market research,
> they discovered (for example) that -tin made non-Merkin consumers think of
> "tinned peas," or that "clari-" made them think of a wind instrument, or
> that "-tyne" sounded impressively chemotechnological. Sort of why Chevolet
> withdrew "Nova" from Spanish-speaking markets.
>
> I was amazed the first time I saw Anadin (US: Anacin) at a UK chemist's
> shop. And I believe there are many more such examples in the pharmaceutical
> world.
Undoubtedly. Sometimes, you can't be sure whether the product originated
in the US or was invented elsewhere and then bought by an American
country, but either way, the names change as you travel. I seem to
remember a similar discussion about chocolate bars.
--
Rob Bannister
Robert Bannister
Quite right. An "Ossi" is an East Frisian. Nevertheless, I'm not totally
sure whether we a l w a y s use the 'z' pronunciation.
--
Rob Bannister
Robert Bannister
Total coincidence, but this morning's paper had a long article about how
pethidine was still widely used for pain control in labour contractions,
but was, in fact, ineffective and potentially dangerous to both mother
and child.
--
Rob Bannister
Frances Kemmish
I don't know about the dangers, but I can testify to its ineffectiveness.
Fran.
R H Draney
And the one that surprises everybody, on both sides: adrenaline =
epinephrine....r
Raymond S. Wise
news:c52aa...@drn.newsguy.com...
Another surprise (I, for one, was surprised when I first learned it),
"Adrenalin" is a trademark.
See
http://www.wordreference.com/english/definition.asp?en=adrenalin
That is the entry in *The Collins English Dictionary.* That dictionary and
the *Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary,* both British dictionaries,
both have "adrenalin" as a variant spelling of "adrenaline." The American
dictionaries I checked have only "adrenaline" as the generic term, reserving
"Adrenalin," when they have it, to the trademark.
Areff
Presumably they have in mind this registered trademark:
Word Mark
ADRENALIN
Goods and Services
IC 005. US 018. G & S: HEMOSTATIC, ASTRINGENT, BLOOD-PRESSURE RAISING AND
STIMULATING PREPARATIONS FOR MEDICINAL OR SURGICAL PURPOSES. FIRST USE:
19001031. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19001031
Mark Drawing Code
(1) TYPED DRAWING
Serial Number
71011909
Filing Date
August 22, 1905
Current Filing Basis
1A
Original Filing Basis
1A
Registration Number
0053934
Registration Date
June 12, 1906
Owner
(REGISTRANT) PARKE DAVIS & CO. CORPORATION MICHIGAN DETROIT MICHIGAN
(LAST LISTED OWNER) WARNER-LAMBERT COMPANY CORPORATION ASSIGNEE OF
DELAWARE 201 TABOR ROAD MORRIS PLAINS NEW JERSEY
Assignment Recorded
ASSIGNMENT RECORDED
Type of Mark
TRADEMARK
Register
PRINCIPAL
Affidavit Text
SECT 12C. SECT 15.
Renewal
4TH RENEWAL 19860612
Live/Dead Indicator
LIVE
There's also:
Word Mark
ORIGINAL ADRENALIN P.D. & CO.
Goods and Services
IC 005. US 006. G & S: Preparations Containing the Active Principle of
Suprarenal Gland. FIRST USE: 19200319. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19200319
Mark Drawing Code
(3) DESIGN PLUS WORDS, LETTERS, AND/OR NUMBERS
Design Search Code
261102
Serial Number
71130233
Filing Date
March 26, 1920
Current Filing Basis
1A
Original Filing Basis
1A
Registration Number
0140512
Registration Date
March 15, 1921
Owner
(REGISTRANT) Parke, Davis & Company CORPORATION MICHIGAN NO. 743 EAST
ATWATER STREET Detroit MICHIGAN
(LAST LISTED OWNER) Warner-Lambert Company CORPORATION DELAWARE Morris
Plains NEW JERSEY
Assignment Recorded
ASSIGNMENT RECORDED
Prior Registrations
0036269;0053934
Disclaimer
No claim is made to exclusive use of the word "Original" apart from the
mark shown on the drawing.
Type of Mark
TRADEMARK
Register
PRINCIPAL
Affidavit Text
SECT 12C. SECT 15. SECT 8 (6-YR).
Renewal
3RD RENEWAL 19810315
Live/Dead Indicator
LIVE
--
Tony Cooper
Best I could do. My actual pronunciation is with both an "s" and a
"z". Something like "Awszie", but that doesn't look right when I type
it. I have found that if you ask: "Would you two Aussies let me buy
a round?" that they seldom criticize my pronunciation.
Raymond S. Wise
news:c52i3u$2o0t5h$1...@ID-201366.news.uni-berlin.de...
What I found especially curious is that *The Collins English Dictionary*
listed "adrenalin" as both a generic term and, capitalized, as a trademark.
I decided to see how it treated the word "Hoover":
http://www.wordreference.com/english/definition.asp?en=hoover
That also was given as both a trademark and a generic term. The difference,
however, is that only the noun was given as a trademarked term, the verb
"hoover" is said to be "usually not cap." So I decided to see how it treated
"Biro":
http://www.wordreference.com/english/definition.asp?en=biro
That gave it as a trademarked term only. However, from what I have read, the
British also use "biro" as a generic term for "ballpoint (pen)." So I
wonder: Do the British also use "hoover" as a generic noun for a vacuum
cleaner?
Wood Avens
<mplsra...@gbronline.com> wrote:
>However, from what I have read, the
>British also use "biro" as a generic term for "ballpoint (pen)." So I
>wonder: Do the British also use "hoover" as a generic noun for a vacuum
>cleaner?
Yes. The household's hoover may be a Dyson or a Miele or an
Electrolux or whatever.
We also use the verb "to hoover" for the action of, er, hoovering.
AmE, I seem to recall, = vacuuming.
--
Katy Jennison
spamtrap: remove the first two letters after the @
CyberCypher
> On Wed, 7 Apr 2004 23:46:33 -0500, "Raymond S. Wise"
> <mplsra...@gbronline.com> wrote:
>
>>However, from what I have read, the
>>British also use "biro" as a generic term for "ballpoint (pen)."
>>So I wonder: Do the British also use "hoover" as a generic noun
>>for a vacuum cleaner?
>
> Yes. The household's hoover may be a Dyson or a Miele or an
> Electrolux or whatever.
>
> We also use the verb "to hoover" for the action of, er, hoovering.
> AmE, I seem to recall, = vacuuming.
Must be a regionalism or a conscious borrowing from the Brits. I can't
remember if we ever had a Hoover, but whatever we had for suking up the
dirt on the carpets, floors, and drapes (not surtains), it vacuumed but
didn't "hoover".
"And remember, folks, you can 'hoover' only with a Hoover. Say it about
anything else and you are infringing on our trademarked name".
--
Franke: EFL teacher & medical editor.
For email, ehziuh htiw rehpycrebyc ecalper.
CyberCypher
> Wood Avens wrote on 08 Apr 2004:
>
>> On Wed, 7 Apr 2004 23:46:33 -0500, "Raymond S. Wise"
>> <mplsra...@gbronline.com> wrote:
>>
>>>However, from what I have read, the
>>>British also use "biro" as a generic term for "ballpoint (pen)."
>>>So I wonder: Do the British also use "hoover" as a generic noun
>>>for a vacuum cleaner?
>>
>> Yes. The household's hoover may be a Dyson or a Miele or an
>> Electrolux or whatever.
>>
>> We also use the verb "to hoover" for the action of, er,
>> hoovering. AmE, I seem to recall, = vacuuming.
>
> Must be a regionalism or a conscious borrowing from the Brits. I
> can't remember if we ever had a Hoover, but whatever we had for
> suking
"sucking", of course.
Skitt
> "R H Draney" wrote:
>> And the one that surprises everybody, on both sides: adrenaline =
>> epinephrine....r
>
> Another surprise (I, for one, was surprised when I first learned it),
> "Adrenalin" is a trademark.
>
> See
> http://www.wordreference.com/english/definition.asp?en=adrenalin
>
> That is the entry in *The Collins English Dictionary.* That
> dictionary and the *Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary,* both
> British dictionaries, both have "adrenalin" as a variant spelling of
> "adrenaline." The American dictionaries I checked have only
> "adrenaline" as the generic term, reserving "Adrenalin," when they
> have it, to the trademark.
That surprised me too. Apparently, the hormone secreted within our bodies
is epinephrine (or epinephrin), but it is also called adrenaline. (Ref.:
MWCD10)
I did not know that.
R H Draney
>
>> "R H Draney" wrote:
>
>>> And the one that surprises everybody, on both sides: adrenaline =
>>> epinephrine....r
>
>is epinephrine (or epinephrin), but it is also called adrenaline. (Ref.:
>MWCD10)
>
>I did not know that.
QED....r
Robert Bannister
Ooh! You do have a way with language.
--
Rob Bannister
Robert Bannister
> Robert Bannister wrote:
>> Total coincidence, but this morning's paper had a long article about
>> how pethidine was still widely used for pain control in labour
>> contractions, but was, in fact, ineffective and potentially dangerous
>> to both mother and child.
>>
>
> I don't know about the dangers, but I can testify to its ineffectiveness.
There are times when I'm glad I'm not a woman.
--
Rob Bannister
Robert Bannister
> CyberCypher wrote on 08 Apr 2004:
>
>
>>Wood Avens wrote on 08 Apr 2004:
>>
>>
>>>On Wed, 7 Apr 2004 23:46:33 -0500, "Raymond S. Wise"
>>><mplsra...@gbronline.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>However, from what I have read, the
>>>>British also use "biro" as a generic term for "ballpoint (pen)."
>>>>So I wonder: Do the British also use "hoover" as a generic noun
>>>>for a vacuum cleaner?
>>>
>>>Yes. The household's hoover may be a Dyson or a Miele or an
>>>Electrolux or whatever.
>>>
>>>We also use the verb "to hoover" for the action of, er,
>>>hoovering. AmE, I seem to recall, = vacuuming.
>>
>>Must be a regionalism or a conscious borrowing from the Brits. I
>>can't remember if we ever had a Hoover, but whatever we had for
>>suking
>
>
> "sucking", of course.
What was their slogan? Something like "it beats as it sucks as it
blows", but that last bit can't be right.
--
Rob Bannister
Frances Kemmish
"Beats as it sweeps as it cleans".
or something like that
John W. Hall
<fkem...@optonline.net> wrote:
>"Beats as it sweeps as it cleans".
>
>or something like that
I have read that there was also, but only briefly,
"Nothing sucks like an Electrolux".
--
John W Hall <wweexxss...@telus.net>
Cochrane, Alberta, Canada.
"Helping People Prosper in the Information Age"
Laura F Spira
Aargh! Now I shall spend this bank holiday weekend with a dose of Stuck
Sousa Syndrome. Thank you, Fran.
--
Laura
(emulate St. George for email)
Charles Riggs
<la...@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> wrote:
>Aargh! Now I shall spend this bank holiday weekend with a dose of Stuck
>Sousa Syndrome.
Referring to Easter weekend, the holiest period on the Christian
calendar, as just another bank holiday weekend is unnerving, even to
an atheist like myself. I'm not necessarily pointing a finger at
Laura; I read a similar reference in a Scottish newspaper a few days
back. It struck me odd then, as well.
--
Charles Riggs
Email address: chriggs/at/eircom/dot/net
CyberCypher
> On Fri, 09 Apr 2004 05:02:17 +0100, Laura F Spira
> <la...@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>>Aargh! Now I shall spend this bank holiday weekend with a dose of
>>Stuck Sousa Syndrome.
>
> Referring to Easter weekend, the holiest period on the Christian
> calendar, as just another bank holiday weekend is unnerving, even
> to an atheist like myself. I'm not necessarily pointing a finger
> at Laura; I read a similar reference in a Scottish newspaper a few
> days back. It struck me odd then, as well.
If it's not a national holiday, then it's a bank holiday. What's the
problem with that. It's certainly no holiday for non-Christians.
Laura F Spira
> On Fri, 09 Apr 2004 05:02:17 +0100, Laura F Spira
> <la...@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>
>>Aargh! Now I shall spend this bank holiday weekend with a dose of Stuck
>>Sousa Syndrome.
>
>
> Referring to Easter weekend, the holiest period on the Christian
> calendar, as just another bank holiday weekend is unnerving, even to
> an atheist like myself. I'm not necessarily pointing a finger at
> Laura; I read a similar reference in a Scottish newspaper a few days
> back. It struck me odd then, as well.
Point where you like, old bean: san fairy ann, as a friend of mine used
to say. I could, of course, have referred to it just as aptly as Chol
Hamoed (which wouldn't include Monday, though) or Passover weekend.
Would that have made you less unnerved?
Obaue: what is the opposite of unnerving?
John Dean
> Charles Riggs wrote on 08 Apr 2004:
>
>> On Fri, 09 Apr 2004 05:02:17 +0100, Laura F Spira
>> <la...@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Aargh! Now I shall spend this bank holiday weekend with a dose of
>>> Stuck Sousa Syndrome.
>>
>> Referring to Easter weekend, the holiest period on the Christian
>> calendar, as just another bank holiday weekend is unnerving, even
>> to an atheist like myself. I'm not necessarily pointing a finger
>> at Laura; I read a similar reference in a Scottish newspaper a few
>> days back. It struck me odd then, as well.
>
> If it's not a national holiday, then it's a bank holiday. What's the
> problem with that. It's certainly no holiday for non-Christians.
Looking at their work schedule, it's no holiday for the Head of the Church
of the England or the ArchBish of Cant.
--
John 'or il Papa' Dean
Oxford
Martin Watts
cha...@aircom.net says...
> On Fri, 09 Apr 2004 05:02:17 +0100, Laura F Spira
> <la...@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
> >Aargh! Now I shall spend this bank holiday weekend with a dose of Stuck
> >Sousa Syndrome.
>
> Referring to Easter weekend, the holiest period on the Christian
> calendar, as just another bank holiday weekend is unnerving, even to
> an atheist like myself. I'm not necessarily pointing a finger at
> Laura; I read a similar reference in a Scottish newspaper a few days
> back. It struck me odd then, as well.
I'm another atheist but when I started work in an office in
Coventry (back in 1978) most of the big local companies worked Good
Friday and gave everybody a day off on the Tuesday - it was known locally
as Easter Tuesday. This was because many of them were still attached to
factories that ran on Saturdays and it was uneconomic to shut down for
Good Friday, reopen for Saturday, and shut down again for Easter Day and
Easter Monday.
For a simnilar economic reason August Bank Holiday was observed
the day after Spring Bank Holiday...
Things have changed since then.
Tony Cooper
>> calendar, as just another bank holiday weekend is unnerving, even to
>> an atheist like myself. I'm not necessarily pointing a finger at
>> Laura; I read a similar reference in a Scottish newspaper a few days
>> back. It struck me odd then, as well.
>
I'm a little confused about why the weekend is called a "bank
holiday". I can understand why some might call it the Easter Holiday
and some might call it just "the holiday weekend", but what has the
bank to do with it? Somehow, calling it the bank holiday is makes me
think that this is the weekend that we commemorate the founding of the
first bank, the invention of the ballpoint pen connected to the
counter with a chain, or the ancient - now discontinued - rite of The
Giving of the Toaster.
I am also somewhat puzzled by the reluctance of atheists to refer to
the weekend as "Easter weekend". Sunday is Easter. Recognizing that
Sunday is Easter does not in any way endorse what they consider to be
the myth of Easter. Calling December 25th Christmas does not require
that one believe in Santa Claus, busy elves, or the birth of a Jewish
carpenter. It just recognizes that the day is the day that is
commonly called "Christmas".
What of the person that distrusts banks and buries his money in a tin
can in the back yard? Is that person reluctant to call the day a
"bank holiday"?
By the way, I'm skipping Tuesdays from now on. Tuesday is so-called
after "Tiwesdaeg", the Norse God of War. I do believe in
Scandinavians, but not in war.
Just musing.
Frances Kemmish
>>>Referring to Easter weekend, the holiest period on the Christian
>>>calendar, as just another bank holiday weekend is unnerving, even to
>>>an atheist like myself. I'm not necessarily pointing a finger at
>>>Laura; I read a similar reference in a Scottish newspaper a few days
>>>back. It struck me odd then, as well.
>>
>
> I'm a little confused about why the weekend is called a "bank
> holiday". I can understand why some might call it the Easter Holiday
> and some might call it just "the holiday weekend", but what has the
> bank to do with it?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_Holiday#History_of_Bank_Holidays
Somehow, calling it the bank holiday is makes me
> think that this is the weekend that we commemorate the founding of the
> first bank, the invention of the ballpoint pen connected to the
> counter with a chain, or the ancient - now discontinued - rite of The
> Giving of the Toaster.
>
Things may have changed in England now, but I don't recall any Engliash
bank offering me a toaster.
> I am also somewhat puzzled by the reluctance of atheists to refer to
> the weekend as "Easter weekend". Sunday is Easter. Recognizing that
> Sunday is Easter does not in any way endorse what they consider to be
> the myth of Easter. Calling December 25th Christmas does not require
> that one believe in Santa Claus, busy elves, or the birth of a Jewish
> carpenter. It just recognizes that the day is the day that is
> commonly called "Christmas".
>
I am an atheist, but I don't have any problem calling Easter "Easter".
Of course, I was brought up as a Christian, so that might have something
to do with it. You may note that the person who referred to the coming
weekend as "this bank holiday weekend" has been celebrating a different
holiday this week.
> What of the person that distrusts banks and buries his money in a tin
> can in the back yard? Is that person reluctant to call the day a
> "bank holiday"?
>
> By the way, I'm skipping Tuesdays from now on. Tuesday is so-called
> after "Tiwesdaeg", the Norse God of War. I do believe in
> Scandinavians, but not in war.
>
My husband has gone to work today (at a bank in New York), because he is
expecting visitors from the UK who want to work on Monday. Perhaps they
are the people for whom the concept of "Bank Holidays" is anathema.
Fran
Laura F Spira
>>>Referring to Easter weekend, the holiest period on the Christian
>>>calendar, as just another bank holiday weekend is unnerving, even to
>>>an atheist like myself. I'm not necessarily pointing a finger at
>>>Laura; I read a similar reference in a Scottish newspaper a few days
>>>back. It struck me odd then, as well.
>>
>
> I'm a little confused about why the weekend is called a "bank
> holiday". I can understand why some might call it the Easter Holiday
> and some might call it just "the holiday weekend", but what has the
> bank to do with it?
All you ever wanted to know about bank holidays:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_Holiday
Somehow, calling it the bank holiday is makes me
> think that this is the weekend that we commemorate the founding of the
> first bank, the invention of the ballpoint pen connected to the
> counter with a chain, or the ancient - now discontinued - rite of The
> Giving of the Toaster.
What do toasters have to do with banks?
[..]
Frances Kemmish
> Tony Cooper wrote:
> Somehow, calling it the bank holiday is makes me
>
>> think that this is the weekend that we commemorate the founding of the
>> first bank, the invention of the ballpoint pen connected to the
>> counter with a chain, or the ancient - now discontinued - rite of The
>> Giving of the Toaster.
>
>
> What do toasters have to do with banks?
>
> [..]
>
>
Apparently, there was a time when banks in the USA gave away toasters to
new customers. I, naturally, arrived on these shores to late for that
golden age. All the bank offers me is sheafs of paperwork, and an
interest rate less than I could make by burying my money in the garden.
Fran
John W. Hall
<la...@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> wrote:
>Obaue: what is the opposite of unnerving?
Steeling?
John W. Hall
<la...@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> wrote:
>...
>What do toasters have to do with banks?
>...
Perhaps some rite originating in Towcester, but since been corrupted
to Toaster?
CyberCypher
But holidays are when the holimen and holiwomen are supposed to be
hardest at work.
Tony Cooper
<fkem...@optonline.net> wrote:
>Tony Cooper wrote:
>>>>Referring to Easter weekend, the holiest period on the Christian
>>>>calendar, as just another bank holiday weekend is unnerving, even to
>>>>an atheist like myself. I'm not necessarily pointing a finger at
>>>>Laura; I read a similar reference in a Scottish newspaper a few days
>>>>back. It struck me odd then, as well.
>>>
>>
>> I'm a little confused about why the weekend is called a "bank
>> holiday". I can understand why some might call it the Easter Holiday
>> and some might call it just "the holiday weekend", but what has the
>> bank to do with it?
>
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_Holiday#History_of_Bank_Holidays
>
>Somehow, calling it the bank holiday is makes me
>> think that this is the weekend that we commemorate the founding of the
>> first bank, the invention of the ballpoint pen connected to the
>> counter with a chain, or the ancient - now discontinued - rite of The
>> Giving of the Toaster.
>>
>
>Things may have changed in England now, but I don't recall any Engliash
>bank offering me a toaster.
Didn't the banks or savings institutions of the UK ever offer gifts to
people that opened new accounts as a form of promotion? No garden
gnomes, tea cozies, or small appliances as inducements to bank at the
Stratford-Upon-Drainage-Ditch branch of The Bank of England?
>> I am also somewhat puzzled by the reluctance of atheists to refer to
>> the weekend as "Easter weekend". Sunday is Easter. Recognizing that
>> Sunday is Easter does not in any way endorse what they consider to be
>> the myth of Easter. Calling December 25th Christmas does not require
>> that one believe in Santa Claus, busy elves, or the birth of a Jewish
>> carpenter. It just recognizes that the day is the day that is
>> commonly called "Christmas".
>>
>
>I am an atheist, but I don't have any problem calling Easter "Easter".
>Of course, I was brought up as a Christian, so that might have something
>to do with it. You may note that the person who referred to the coming
>weekend as "this bank holiday weekend" has been celebrating a different
>holiday this week.
The person wasn't referring to the weekend as a bank holiday to avoid
the use of "Easter". I think it was just a matter of being more
inclusive rather than exclusive.
I am quite willing to call a day Yom Kippur, Tet, Muharram, Kawanzaa,
or anything else without feeling that I'm joining the religion of the
sponsoring group. I don't send cards, though.
>My husband has gone to work today (at a bank in New York), because he is
>expecting visitors from the UK who want to work on Monday. Perhaps they
>are the people for whom the concept of "Bank Holidays" is anathema.
>
Good Friday is not usually a holiday here for most businesses. Some
close between twelve and one, but most regular businesses remain open.
I believe most allow employees to have time off during the day to
attend a church.
Tony Cooper
A Great American Tradition now gone by the boards. Banks and Savings
& Loans used to offer gifts to people that opened accounts. I don't
know if toasters were actually ever offered, but the catch-phrase of
the practice became toasters. Google "banks +toasters" and you will
see references as in
http://www.keepmedia.com/ShowItemDetails.do?item_id=343810&extID=10026
On the "Roseanne" television program, there was a now-well-known line
about lesbians not recruiting wherein one lesbian told a straight
woman "We don't get a toaster for converting you". (That's not the
actual line, but it provides the gist) That was a reference to the
bank practice.
Frances Kemmish
Not that I can recall; and the Bank of England doesn't do retail banking.
>
>>>I am also somewhat puzzled by the reluctance of atheists to refer to
>>>the weekend as "Easter weekend". Sunday is Easter. Recognizing that
>>>Sunday is Easter does not in any way endorse what they consider to be
>>>the myth of Easter. Calling December 25th Christmas does not require
>>>that one believe in Santa Claus, busy elves, or the birth of a Jewish
>>>carpenter. It just recognizes that the day is the day that is
>>>commonly called "Christmas".
>>>
>>
>>I am an atheist, but I don't have any problem calling Easter "Easter".
>>Of course, I was brought up as a Christian, so that might have something
>>to do with it. You may note that the person who referred to the coming
>>weekend as "this bank holiday weekend" has been celebrating a different
>>holiday this week.
>
>
> The person wasn't referring to the weekend as a bank holiday to avoid
> the use of "Easter". I think it was just a matter of being more
> inclusive rather than exclusive.
>
I am sure that Laura can answer for her own intentions, if she feels
like it.
> I am quite willing to call a day Yom Kippur, Tet, Muharram, Kawanzaa,
> or anything else without feeling that I'm joining the religion of the
> sponsoring group. I don't send cards, though.
>
>
>
>>My husband has gone to work today (at a bank in New York), because he is
>>expecting visitors from the UK who want to work on Monday. Perhaps they
>>are the people for whom the concept of "Bank Holidays" is anathema.
>>
>
>
> Good Friday is not usually a holiday here for most businesses. Some
> close between twelve and one, but most regular businesses remain open.
> I believe most allow employees to have time off during the day to
> attend a church.
>
>
The stock markets are closed today. He doesn't usually need to work on
days when the markets are closed.
Fran
Gwilym Calon
news:3hcd70dbp375sdt00...@4ax.com...
> Didn't the banks or savings institutions of the UK ever offer gifts to
> people that opened new accounts as a form of promotion?
At various times in the past, some banks have offered very small gifts to new
account holders. Usually something associated with banking such as a money-box
or a calculator. In the 1980s, The Natwest Bank offered a range of pottery pigs
as an inducement to sign-up for their financial services. These have now become
collectable to the extent that forgeries abound. See
http://www.piggybankpage.co.uk/wade.htm for some details.
Some investment schemes and insurance companies also offer gewgaws such as
carriage clocks etc. I don't think it's a major part of their business though.
-------
GC
Areff
> On Fri, 09 Apr 2004 05:02:17 +0100, Laura F Spira
><la...@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>>Aargh! Now I shall spend this bank holiday weekend with a dose of Stuck
>>Sousa Syndrome.
>
> Referring to Easter weekend, the holiest period on the Christian
> calendar, as just another bank holiday weekend is unnerving, even to
> an atheist like myself. I'm not necessarily pointing a finger at
> Laura; I read a similar reference in a Scottish newspaper a few days
> back. It struck me odd then, as well.
What strikes me as odd is that here in Chicago (Third Largest City in
America), at my place of w***, we officially have Good Friday as a
half-holiday (= no one actually comes into the office that day). Can
anyone even *imagine* something like that happening in, say, New York
(Largest City in America)? No.
--
Areff
> Tuesday is so-called after "Tiwesdaeg", the Norse God of War.
Oy!!
--
Areff
> A Great American Tradition now gone by the boards. Banks and Savings
> & Loans
= BrE "thrifts", IINM.
> On the "Roseanne" television program, there was a now-well-known line
> about lesbians not recruiting wherein one lesbian told a straight
> woman "We don't get a toaster for converting you". (That's not the
> actual line, but it provides the gist) That was a reference to the
> bank practice.
I only figured out that there had once been such a practice after watching
a confusing TV commercial a year or two ago, for Manny Hanny possibly,
where IIRC one bank person was relating to another how a customer was so
satisfied with the service he got at the bank that he gave the bank a
toaster.
--
R H Draney
>
>Tony Cooper wrote:
>>
>> I'm a little confused about why the weekend is called a "bank
>> holiday". I can understand why some might call it the Easter Holiday
>> and some might call it just "the holiday weekend", but what has the
>> bank to do with it?
>
>> think that this is the weekend that we commemorate the founding of the
>> first bank, the invention of the ballpoint pen connected to the
>> counter with a chain, or the ancient - now discontinued - rite of The
>> Giving of the Toaster.
>
>> can in the back yard? Is that person reluctant to call the day a
>> "bank holiday"?
>
>expecting visitors from the UK who want to work on Monday. Perhaps they
>are the people for whom the concept of "Bank Holidays" is anathema.
The phrase itself may bother some Leftpondians because of a certain historical
connotation...from www.livinghistoryfarm.org:
When a new president, Franklin Delano Roosevelt was inaugurated in March 1933,
banks in all 48 states had either closed or had placed restrictions on how much
money depositors could withdraw. FDR's first act as President was to declare a
national "bank holiday" – closing the banks for a three-day cooling off period.
The most memorable line from the President's speech was directed to the bank
crisis – "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself."
Some economists and historians have argued that the bank crisis caused the Great
Depression. But others have looked at fundamental economic factors and regional
histories and argued that banks failed as a result of the economic collapse.
</hack>
In the absence of that, I quickly learnt to understand the phrase as meaning
"the banks will be closed that day", and that the same is probably true of post
offices, libraries and schools...for various reasons, my employer no longer
assigns specific holidays (I worked on 1 January 2000) because too many people
have their own special observances, but I justify selecting certain days to take
off because the above institutions are doing so....r
Reinhold (Rey) Aman
> Tony Cooper wrote:
> Oy!!
Actually, two OY!s are in order.
--
Reinhold (Rey) Aman
Evan Kirshenbaum
> What strikes me as odd is that here in Chicago (Third Largest City in
> America), at my place of w***, we officially have Good Friday as a
> half-holiday (= no one actually comes into the office that day). Can
> anyone even *imagine* something like that happening in, say, New York
> (Largest City in America)? No.
"Officially officially"? Here at HP, for years we had a "Spring
Holiday" that by purest coincidence I'm sure just happened to always
fall on Good Friday.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |Its like grasping the difference
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |between what one usually considers
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |a 'difficult' problem, and what
|*is* a difficult problem. The day
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com |one understands *why* counting all
(650)857-7572 |the molecules in the Universe isn't
|difficult...there's the leap.
http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ | Tina Marie Holmboe
Frances Kemmish
Imagine what? People having a half-holiday? People not coming to work on
a half-holiday? People not coming to work on Good Friday?
The NYSE is closed today. Most investment banks and finance houses have
the day as a holiday. No need to imagine it.
Fran
Areff
> Areff wrote:
>
>> Tony Cooper wrote:
>
>> > Tuesday is so-called after "Tiwesdaeg", the Norse God of War.
>
>> Oy!!
>
> Actually, two OY!s are in order.
Indeed -- hence my two exclamation marks (= BrE "shrieks").
Actually, I can see justification for a third Oy! (for the "so-called").
Oy!!!
--
Reinhold (Rey) Aman
> >> Oy!!
My added OY! was for his illiterate "so-called."
--
Reinhold (Rey) Aman
Areff
> Areff wrote:
>> What strikes me as odd is that here in Chicago (Third Largest City in
>> America), at my place of w***, we officially have Good Friday as a
>> half-holiday (= no one actually comes into the office that day). Can
>> anyone even *imagine* something like that happening in, say, New York
>> (Largest City in America)? No.
>>
>
> Imagine what? People having a half-holiday? People not coming to work on
> a half-holiday? People not coming to work on Good Friday?
>
> The NYSE is closed today. Most investment banks and finance houses have
> the day as a holiday. No need to imagine it.
My intuition, which I assume is derived from having grown up in a
*religiously pluralistic* culture like that of New York (...), is that
there's something really weird and disturbing about an employer making
Good Friday a holiday or even a half-holiday. NTICOC.
The portion of the financial industry tied to the NYSE, that I can
understand, with the NYSE giving Good Friday off as a holdover from the
time when you had to be a nize genteel Episcopalian to be admitted to the
Exchange or whatever. But I'm talking about employers that aren't
connected particularly to the NYSE. That the NYSE still gives all these
various Christian religious feast days off seems questionably archaic to
me, but that's for them to decide I guess.
Note that in the New York City region, stock traders of
the sort of trench-level sort have been and continue to be an
overwhelmingly Irish-American occupation, comparable to the local police
and firefighting services in that respect. Do the NYPD and the NYFD
have Good Friday as official holidays? I haven't checked, but I'll bet
the answer is "You betcha!", to use a Midwestern expression. (Note to
people in Texas: In New York Irish-Americans are specifically associated
with Roman Catholicism.)
--
Areff
Maybe I'm being too harsh in assigning two Oy!s for the "after
'Tiwesdaeg', the Norse God of War", though I now see some call for a
fourth Oy!. My first two Oy!s reflect the following: (1) "Tiwesdaeg" is
Old English, not Norse, and (2) "Tiwesdaeg" is not the name of a *god*,
but the name of a *day of the week* named for that god. My fourth Oy!,
perhaps the pickiest, is directed to the capitalization in "God
of War" -- I think "the Norse god of war" is what's called for there.
Actually, this seems like a reasonable enough objection, so I think the
fourth Oy! remains.
As a scholar of Germanic language and literature, you are best equipped to
judge whether my first two Oy!s are only partially reasonable. Well, I
think Oy! (2) is per se reasonable on English usage grounds. So the only
question is Oy! (1). If the Anglo-Saxon folks just stole the whole
Tuesday idea from the invading Danish Venture Scouts, that might be a
mitigating circumstance. Weren't they just translating the Latin days of
the week, or do I have that backwards?
--
Raymond S. Wise
news:3hcd70dbp375sdt00...@4ax.com...
[...]
> I am quite willing to call a day Yom Kippur, Tet, Muharram, Kawanzaa,
> or anything else without feeling that I'm joining the religion of the
> sponsoring group. I don't send cards, though.
Kwanzaa is not a religious holiday.
--
Raymond S. Wise
Minneapolis, MN 55404
E-mail: mplsray @ yahoo . com
John Dean
>
> The stock markets are closed today. He doesn't usually need to work on
> days when the markets are closed.
But surely in these days of Internet banking, there is a market open
somewhere in the world on any given day? An opportunity not to be missed
Shirley.
--
John Dean
Oxford
Dr Robin Bignall
<tony_co...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> Referring to Easter weekend, the holiest period on the Christian
>>> calendar, as just another bank holiday weekend is unnerving, even to
>>> an atheist like myself. I'm not necessarily pointing a finger at
>>> Laura; I read a similar reference in a Scottish newspaper a few days
>>> back. It struck me odd then, as well.
>>
>
>I'm a little confused about why the weekend is called a "bank
>holiday".
It's because all banks are closed on bank holidays that fall on working
days.
http://www.dti.gov.uk/er/bankfaq.htm
--
wrmst rgrds
Robin Bignall
Hertfordshire
England
John Dean
I don't recollect British Banks doing anything on these lines for hoi
polloi. But for Students, there have almost always been incentives - record
vouchers, personal organisers etc.
--
John Dean
Oxford
John Dean
> Frances Kemmish wrote:
>> Areff wrote:
>>> What strikes me as odd is that here in Chicago (Third Largest City
>>> in America), at my place of w***, we officially have Good Friday as
>>> a half-holiday (= no one actually comes into the office that day).
>>> Can anyone even *imagine* something like that happening in, say,
>>> New York (Largest City in America)? No.
>>>
>>
>> Imagine what? People having a half-holiday? People not coming to
>> work on a half-holiday? People not coming to work on Good Friday?
>>
>> The NYSE is closed today. Most investment banks and finance houses
>> have the day as a holiday. No need to imagine it.
>
> My intuition, which I assume is derived from having grown up in a
> *religiously pluralistic* culture like that of New York (...), is that
> there's something really weird and disturbing about an employer making
> Good Friday a holiday or even a half-holiday. NTICOC.
>
> The portion of the financial industry tied to the NYSE, that I can
> understand, with the NYSE giving Good Friday off as a holdover from
> the time when you had to be a nize genteel Episcopalian to be
> admitted to the Exchange or whatever. But I'm talking about
> employers that aren't connected particularly to the NYSE. That the
> NYSE still gives all these various Christian religious feast days off
> seems questionably archaic to me, but that's for them to decide I
> guess.
>
a button I should have thought there was a need to stay alert. I don't
imagine Japan shuts down for Good Friday and if the Nikkei catches a cold,
does not the Dow reach for a handkerchief?
Don't US traders have people watching out for someone stealing an easter
March on them via the Delhi Stock Exchange or the Saudi market? Doesn't Hong
Kong still have financial clout?
Or are they like the US administrators in Iraq who were supposed to have
been taken aback that Sunday was not a day of rest?
--
John Dean
Oxford
Raymond S. Wise
news:4076AA16...@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk...
A traditional gift to those opening new accounts, presumably given only when
there is heavy competition between banks. My own bank still gives away
various things in such circumstances (though I've seen no toasters lately).
I'm still using the GE clock-radio I got from that bank more than 20 years
ago.
--
Raymond S. Wise
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
Joe Manfre
> Tony Cooper wrote:
>> A Great American Tradition now gone by the boards. Banks and
>> Savings & Loans
>
>= BrE "thrifts", IINM.
I thought S&L's were called "building societies" in BrE. That is a
fine name, right up there with AmE "credit unions", if you think about
it. Maybe they have "thrifts" there too.
"Thrifts" is an officialese name in the U.S. for some subset of the
general class of "outfits that act a lot like banks but by some legal
definition are not banks" (see e.g. the Office of Thrift Supervision,
an arm of the U.S. Treasury that is one of the eighty-seven million
federal agencies that regulate the financial-services industry and
constantly engage in turf wars with one another), but I don't think
normal people are too likely use that term in AmE.
JM
Robert Bannister
> Robert Bannister wrote:
>> What was their slogan? Something like "it beats as it sucks as it
>> blows", but that last bit can't be right.
>>
>
> "Beats as it sweeps as it cleans".
>
> or something like that
>
That sounds right. We had an upright Hoover for ages - must have been
bought in the 30s - I remember Hoover offered my mother UKP100 or
thereabouts some time in the 50s.
--
Rob Bannister
Robert Bannister
> Charles Riggs wrote on 08 Apr 2004:
>
>>Referring to Easter weekend, the holiest period on the Christian
>>calendar, as just another bank holiday weekend is unnerving, even
>>to an atheist like myself. I'm not necessarily pointing a finger
>>at Laura; I read a similar reference in a Scottish newspaper a few
>>days back. It struck me odd then, as well.
>
>
> If it's not a national holiday, then it's a bank holiday. What's the
> problem with that. It's certainly no holiday for non-Christians.
>
Bad Friday is a total pain in the neck: no pubs, no shops, no nothing.
Hope it's not that bad where you are.
--
Rob Bannister
Tony Cooper
<fkem...@optonline.net> wrote:
>>>Things may have changed in England now, but I don't recall any Engliash
>>>bank offering me a toaster.
>>
>>
>> Didn't the banks or savings institutions of the UK ever offer gifts to
>> people that opened new accounts as a form of promotion? No garden
>> gnomes, tea cozies, or small appliances as inducements to bank at the
>> Stratford-Upon-Drainage-Ditch branch of The Bank of England?
>>
>
>Not that I can recall; and the Bank of England doesn't do retail banking.
Really? Next you'll be telling me there's no such place as
Stratford-Upon-Drainage-Ditch. C'mon, Fran, read the entire para and
note that there is not one serious reference in it.
>> The person wasn't referring to the weekend as a bank holiday to avoid
>> the use of "Easter". I think it was just a matter of being more
>> inclusive rather than exclusive.
>>
>
>I am sure that Laura can answer for her own intentions, if she feels
>like it.
You read enough of someone's posts and you do get a sense of them. I
think I'm fairly safe in saying that she is not deliberately excluding
the recognition of Easter as much as she is providing the bland phrase
that covers any meaning of the weekend.
Slipping 'way off topic.....but I heard an interview today with a
woman that is the artistic director of a ballet group in - I think it
was - Richmond, Virginia. She's putting on a 90 minute ballet based
on a NASCAR (automobile) race.
That's probably less believable than the BoE with branch offices and
Stratford-Upon-Drainage-Ditch, but I'll leave it to you to figure out
if your leg hurts.
Robert Bannister
> Kwanzaa is not a religious holiday.
>
>
This word has come up before when discussing 'happy holiday'. What on
earth is it?
--
Rob Bannister
Tony Cooper
I forget what trinkets we actually received from banks, but we did get
something-or-other to open an account at one when we first moved here.
Another gone-by-the-boards practice was give-aways at gasoline
stations. At one time, we had a complete set of drinking glasses
courtesy of Purple Martin gasoline stations. I don't remember how
much gasoline had to be purchased for a glass, but gas was probably
around 40 cents a gallon so it couldn't have been more than $8.00 or
so.
I'm too young to remember the movie theaters having "dish nights",
though.
Stuck in some drawer here are probably some half-filled Green Stamp
books.
Don Aitken
Like quite a few of RF's alleged BrE terms, it is, I'm pretty sure,
entirely unknown in the UK.
--
Don Aitken
Mail to the addresses given in the headers is no longer being
read. To mail me, substitute "clara.co.uk" for "freeuk.com".