Yet another letter to Sis

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Tony Cooper

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Feb 17, 2002, 11:13:26 PM2/17/02
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Dear Sis:

Thanks for your recent letter. You're right when you say
that I should have provided you an explanation of what a
"newsgroup" is all about. I understand your confusion. The
"what", "why", and "where" of newsgroupery is a bafflement
to all. In fact, that's been a recent subject in
alt.usage.english. Some people wonder where we are when we
participate in newsgroup posting exchanges. It's no wonder
that what we're doing is not understandable if where we are
is not understood.

To make it clearer, the following is about one of the
current subjects in aue:

One of my playmates in the forum is a fellow named Charles
Riggs. Decent enough sort, but he can be an insufferably
pompous ass at times. One of his favorite whinges is the
lack of intellectual depth in postings. He proposes that we
discuss *serious* things like Zen Buddhism, Shakespearean
allegory, and thermal conductivity analysis. In keeping
with this, he typed out a paragraph asking if electric
teakettles were common in the United States. This is called
a "posting".

This posting appears in the newsgroup. If there are replies
to the posting, the sequence is called a "thread". Some
postings do not receive responses, and others receive many
responses. As a general rule, a posting remains an orphan
if there is some real merit to the content, if the posting
is clearly written in proper English without spelling or
grammar errors, and if the overall thrust of the statement
is unassailably correct. If the statement is without
intellectual merit, poorly phrased, or relates to food or
common household objects, then some response is usually
forthcoming.

As an aside here, I should point out that the alleged theme
of the postings is intended to be English usage. There is a
small group of hard core posters that remain faithful to
this focus, but they are in the minority and generally not
given attention. Oh, there is some pseudo-attention to keep
up appearances, but it's mostly in the form of copy/pasting
verbatim OED definitions by those that think that access to
a hard cover dictionary is a cachet of learning.

Additional pseudo-attention is paid by posting replies
containing "googlestats" (which are search engine counts of
usage) in an effort to either prove common usage or common
misuse. It doesn't seem to make a difference which is
proven or if anything at all is proven. It's just a way of
weighing in and establishing a posture of pedantry. From
there, the pseudo-attention passes to pronunciation (spelled
out in keyboarded Rosetta Stone hieroglyphs) and a
discussion of how pronunciation changes as latitude
increases or some other nonsense theory. (This is sometimes
called "The Oy! Progression")

Now, back to the Great Teakettle Thread. Since inception,
there have been over 600 posts in this thread and a
secondary thread has been spawned that has sent one poster
home crying. No mention of "The Tempest" has come up in
either, although there's a possible pun in the making. The
original question has not yet been satisfactorily answered.

Electric teakettles have been described by size, shape, and
usage. They have been called teakettles, hot pots, electric
jugs and kettles. Their efficiency has been discussed and
comparisons made to alternative means of heating water. A
great deal of attention has been given to the electrical
system employed in heating the water and the variations of
the electrical system encountered on different continents.
Included has been a certain amount of chest-thumping by
proponents of local voltage levels. This, in turn, led to
sub-discussions of measurements of power and the inevitable
bandying about of scientific knowns and
you-don't-know-what-you-are-talking abouts.

The discussion, at various points, has touched on the
granular composition of instant coffee and tooth brushing
habits; the usual eclectic range in a long thread that
included microwaving water, types of light bulbs and
sockets, cooking appliances in military vehicles, the Boer
War, a recommendation for a Canadian pub with clean
bathrooms, hard and soft water and the effects on teakettle
interiors, electric transformers and connecting devices,
alternative applications for kettle cords, icebergs,
superheated water explosions (fact or myth?), shaving with
hot water, death by electrocution, vinegar on french fried
potatoes, ramen noodles, and fish boil recipes. For some
unknown reason, the use of wind turbines to generate energy
to heat water has been overlooked.

My own favorite digression from the original point was
posted by Murray Arnow: "Very simply put, a change of
state, say from alive to dead, is traceable to molecular
changes which are themselves traceable to changes of state
described elementarily in terms of energy configurations.
You're a physicist and should know that changes in atomic
states are QM." This, to me, is the quintessential
contribution to an aue thread on electric teakettles.


Charles, naturally, is quite pleased with the response to
his posting. At one point, he modestly noted the triviality
of the subject matter but he has reportedly scrapped his
plan to discuss the DeMoivre Theorem of complex numbers in
favor of a thread opener on outdoor barbeque devices.

--
Tony Cooper aka: tony_co...@yahoo.com
Provider of Jots and Tittles

Maria Conlon

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Feb 18, 2002, 1:14:24 AM2/18/02
to

Tony Cooper wrote

>Dear Sis:

[...]

Yet another enjoyable letter.

Maria
Home, but not crying.
More important, not smoking either. 43 Days.

Earle Jones

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Feb 18, 2002, 1:24:16 AM2/18/02
to
In article <3C707F65...@yahoo.com>,
Tony Cooper <tony_co...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Dear Sis:
>
> Thanks for your recent letter. You're right when you say
> that I should have provided you an explanation of what a

> "newsgroup" is all about....

*
Absolutely brilliant!

And by the way, the Russell Hobbs 1.7-liter is the best electric
teakettle available in the US, with the exception that it leaks.

earle
*

Laura F Spira

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Feb 18, 2002, 2:00:32 AM2/18/02
to
Tony Cooper wrote:
>
> Dear Sis:
>
<snip>

Lovely, Tony, solved the problem of how to catch up after a few days
away. (Perhaps you could supply regular thread summaries? This would be
a tremendous help to me as I have much other reading on the go right
now!)

--
Laura
(emulate St. George for email)

Woody Wordpecker

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Feb 18, 2002, 2:51:12 AM2/18/02
to
On Mon, 18 Feb 2002 01:14:24 -0500, "Maria Conlon" <mcon...@sprynet.com>
said:

[ . . . ]

>Maria
>Home, but not crying.
>More important, not smoking either. 43 Days.

Also not smoking. 49 years + 120 days. Or thereabouts.

Bart

Spooky Guy Next Door

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Feb 18, 2002, 5:25:42 AM2/18/02
to
Once upon a midnight dreary, while I pondered, weak and weary, Maria
Conlon (mcon...@sprynet.com) wrote:

> Maria
> Home, but not crying.
> More important, not smoking either. 43 Days.

I haven't smoked for ten years now. Not bothered by cravings, neither...

*cough*

Sorry, smokers, if the above statement just tortured y'all <g />

--
The ideas expressed in the above post are my own, with the possible
exception of the one involving a scarecrow and a stick of butter.
blog - http://www.cyberfuddle.com/infinitebabble/
cyberfuddle - http://www.cyberfuddle.com/
netiquette (read!) - http://allmyfaqs.com/faq.pl?How_to_post

Maria Conlon

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Feb 18, 2002, 6:33:10 AM2/18/02
to

Woody Wordpecker wrote

>Maria Conlon said:
>[ . . . ]

>>Maria
>>Home, but not crying.
>>More important, not smoking either. 43 Days.

>Also not smoking. 49 years + 120 days. Or thereabouts.
>
>Bart


I am impressed, Bart. That was even before the Surgeon General's
report. But the health aspect of smoking is not the sole reason I
quit -- or even the main reason. Money was the big factor.

The high prices owe much to the taxes imposed by state governments.
I wonder what they'll do for funds if more and more people quit. Do
you think the governors and legislatures will stop giving themselves
raises?

Well, this is all off-topic, so here's an OBaue: How did we end up
with "governor" instead of "gubernator"?

Maria (Tootsie)
Polite question: "Do you mind if I smoke?"
Off-putting response: "I don't care if you burn."

Richard Fontana

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Feb 18, 2002, 6:42:33 AM2/18/02
to
On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Maria Conlon wrote:

> Well, this is all off-topic, so here's an OBaue: How did we end up
> with "governor" instead of "gubernator"?

French.

dcw

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Feb 18, 2002, 6:49:33 AM2/18/02
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In article <a4qoad$2cui5$1...@id-113669.news.dfncis.de>,
Maria Conlon <mcon...@sprynet.com> wrote:

>Well, this is all off-topic, so here's an OBaue: How did we end up
>with "governor" instead of "gubernator"?

What would be the noun corresponding to "cybernetic"?

David


Woody Wordpecker

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Feb 18, 2002, 10:58:03 AM2/18/02
to
On Mon, 18 Feb 2002 06:33:10 -0500, "Maria Conlon" <mcon...@sprynet.com>
said:

[ . . . ]

>Maria (Tootsie)


>Polite question: "Do you mind if I smoke?"
>Off-putting response: "I don't care if you burn."

You may smoke, but please do not exhale.

Bart

CyberCypher

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Feb 18, 2002, 12:52:10 PM2/18/02
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Woody Wordpecker <woodywo...@earthlink.net> held forth in
news:f0927uoboqeu78o9g...@4ax.com:

Much better. (Sorry, Maria.)
--

Franke: Frankly feeling like a ghost.

mu...@reallybigfoot.com

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Feb 18, 2002, 2:29:49 PM2/18/02
to
On Sun, 17 Feb 2002 23:13:26 -0500, Tony Cooper
<tony_co...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Dear Sis:
[...]

Made my day. Thanks.

...muss


Arcadian Rises

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Feb 18, 2002, 2:49:35 PM2/18/02
to
In article <a4q5km$269kd$1...@ID-113669.news.dfncis.de>, "Maria Conlon"
<mcon...@sprynet.com> writes:

>Maria
>Home, but not crying.
>More important, not smoking either. 43 Days.
>
>
>

And how many more pounds? if I may ask.

Actually, my real question is the following: where should I place the question
mark in the above sentence? It doesn't look logical to place it at the end.

On a different vein, congratulations!
87 days smoke free and 10 lb havier.


Arcadian Rises

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Feb 18, 2002, 2:49:35 PM2/18/02
to
In article <a4qoad$2cui5$1...@ID-113669.news.dfncis.de>, "Maria Conlon"
<mcon...@sprynet.com> writes:

>I am impressed, Bart. That was even before the Surgeon General's
>report. But the health aspect of smoking is not the sole reason I
>quit -- or even the main reason. Money was the big factor.

The biggest motivation is convenience, of lack thereof.

No need to wait until a smoking section spot becomes vacant in a restaurant
that has plenty of non-smoking vacant tables; no need to take an unconvenient
break then look for an illicit smoking place (I used to find them even in
hospitals). No need to go outside in cold whether, during an intermission, or a
family dinner and miss the gossip of non-smokers; I can go on and on, but I
promise myself that if I'd ever stop smoking (again) I shall never lecture
about why one should stop smoking. Now I was only listing some of the benefits.

Spehro Pefhany

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Feb 18, 2002, 2:59:37 PM2/18/02
to
The renowned Maria Conlon <mcon...@sprynet.com> wrote:

> Home, but not crying.
> More important, not smoking either. 43 Days.

Cool and cooler. Over the hump. I do look forward to a posting from
Charles detailing the difficulties he had in getting ahold of a foreign
banknote worth less than 1 US cent.

Tony, that was very enjoyable. Maybe next time you can comment more
specifically on the threads that refer to other threads. Many postings
refer to the thread they are in, and still other postings are actually
self-referential, such as this one.

Best regards,
--
Spehro Pefhany --"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
sp...@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
9-11 United we Stand

Skitt

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Feb 18, 2002, 5:52:09 PM2/18/02
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"Spooky Guy Next Door" <mgall...@cyberfuddle.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.16db81b38...@news.cis.dfn.de...

> Once upon a midnight dreary, while I pondered, weak and weary, Maria
> Conlon (mcon...@sprynet.com) wrote:
>
> > Maria
> > Home, but not crying.
> > More important, not smoking either. 43 Days.
>
> I haven't smoked for ten years now. Not bothered by cravings, neither...
>
> *cough*

Almost twelve years here. No coughing since then.
--
Skitt (in SF Bay Area) http://www.geocities.com/opus731/
I speak English well -- I learn it from a book!
-- Manuel (Fawlty Towers)


John O'Flaherty

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Feb 18, 2002, 6:11:21 PM2/18/02
to

From my own experience let me suggest that a brisk daily walk helps,
with both the cravings and the weight gain.

--
john

Arcadian Rises

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Feb 18, 2002, 6:23:33 PM2/18/02
to
>From: John O'Flaherty wewelc...@blackhole.net

>From my own experience let me suggest that a brisk daily walk helps,
>with both the cravings and the weight gain.
>

From my own very recent experience, a brisk walk, or any other kind of
exercise, increases my apetite, especially for sweets. But it diminishes the
cravings for cigarets, and for now this is the priority.

Fabian

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Feb 18, 2002, 3:29:39 PM2/18/02
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"dcw" <D.C....@ukc.ac.uk> wrote in message news:69...@myrtle.ukc.ac.uk...

Sympathy - sympathetic
Cyberny - cybernetic

On second thoughts, maybe there aint no such animal.

--
Fabian
Hey! Don't write yourself off yet. It's only in your head you feel left
out or looked down on. Just try your best. Try everything you can.


Maria Conlon

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Feb 19, 2002, 1:53:51 AM2/19/02
to

CyberCypher wrote
>Woody Wordpecker held forth in
>> Maria Conlon said:

>> [ . . . ]
>>
>>>Maria (Tootsie)
>>>Polite question: "Do you mind if I smoke?"
>>>Off-putting response: "I don't care if you burn."

>> You may smoke, but please do not exhale.

>Much better. (Sorry, Maria.)

Frankly, Franke, I liked Bart's line, too. So you needn't be sorry.
(I will get even, though.)

Maria (Tootsie)
These comments are intended to amuse rather than elucidate...
-- Matti Lamprhey


Charles Riggs

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Feb 19, 2002, 5:21:58 AM2/19/02
to
On Mon, 18 Feb 2002 14:52:09 -0800, "Skitt" <sk...@earthlink.net>
wrote:

>
>"Spooky Guy Next Door" <mgall...@cyberfuddle.com> wrote in message
>news:MPG.16db81b38...@news.cis.dfn.de...
>> Once upon a midnight dreary, while I pondered, weak and weary, Maria
>> Conlon (mcon...@sprynet.com) wrote:
>>
>> > Maria
>> > Home, but not crying.
>> > More important, not smoking either. 43 Days.
>>
>> I haven't smoked for ten years now. Not bothered by cravings, neither...
>>
>> *cough*
>
>Almost twelve years here. No coughing since then.

Ah, but how much happiness say I, puffing away?

Charles Riggs

Charles Riggs

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Feb 19, 2002, 5:22:01 AM2/19/02
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On 18 Feb 2002 19:49:35 GMT, arcadi...@aol.com (Arcadian Rises)
wrote:

>In article <a4q5km$269kd$1...@ID-113669.news.dfncis.de>, "Maria Conlon"
><mcon...@sprynet.com> writes:
>
>>Maria
>>Home, but not crying.
>>More important, not smoking either. 43 Days.
>>
>>
>>
>
>And how many more pounds? if I may ask.
>
>Actually, my real question is the following: where should I place the question
>mark in the above sentence? It doesn't look logical to place it at the end.

What you have done is what many writers have done, and you were
following the usual practice of not following it by a comma. It does
look odd today though. I think that is unfortunate since, as you say,
its placement there is logical.

Charles Riggs

Charles Riggs

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Feb 19, 2002, 5:22:02 AM2/19/02
to
On 18 Feb 2002 23:23:33 GMT, arcadi...@aol.com (Arcadian Rises)
wrote:

>>From: John O'Flaherty wewelc...@blackhole.net

Do brisk walks, ugh, help with one's spelling?

Charles Riggs

Charles Riggs

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Feb 19, 2002, 5:22:01 AM2/19/02
to

My experience is that a fag ends the cravings and that a leisurely
taxi ride is more pleasant. I have no weight problem since I try not
to worry about trivia. Each to his own, I suppose.

Charles Riggs

Skitt

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Feb 19, 2002, 3:01:06 PM2/19/02
to

"Charles Riggs" <chr...@gofree.indigo.ie> wrote in message
news:7o947ukfbitqrmvsg...@4ax.com...

The $21,000 I have not spent on cigarettes since then have made other
pleasures a lot more affordable. That makes me very happy!

Padraig Breathnach

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Feb 19, 2002, 7:32:11 PM2/19/02
to
"Skitt" <sk...@earthlink.net> wrote:

>The $21,000 I have not spent on cigarettes since then have made other
>pleasures a lot more affordable. That makes me very happy!

I have often asked people who have quit smoking what they have done
with the money they saved. I have yet to meet anybody who can tell me.
It seems to disappear.

PB

Frances Kemmish

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Feb 19, 2002, 7:36:10 PM2/19/02
to

When I first gave up smoking, I put my ciggie money aside every day,
until I had enough to buy the new handbag I'd been coveting. After
that, I didn't bother to set the money aside; I've probably spent it
all on chocolate, anyway.

Fran

Skitt

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Feb 19, 2002, 7:49:26 PM2/19/02
to

"Padraig Breathnach" <padr...@iol.ie> wrote in message
news:vgr57u064inh9ohve...@4ax.com...

It is not like I have kept it separately, but there is that and much more in
my bank accounts. The additional money has helped me to return from Florida
and its cheap housing to the outrageously expensive SF Bay Area and get a
hose there. Or, I might say that it paid for our second car, more than
twice over.

No, that money did not disappear. It is just not easily spotted in the
accounting.

Tony Cooper

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Feb 19, 2002, 9:06:35 PM2/19/02
to
Skitt wrote:

> The $21,000 I have not spent on cigarettes since then have made other
> pleasures a lot more affordable. That makes me very happy!
> --

I am much richer than you are, Skitt. I have never used
cocaine, so I must be worth a gazillion at least. I just
can't figure out where it is.

--
Tony Cooper aka: tony_co...@yahoo.com
Provider of Jots and Tittles

Skitt

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Feb 19, 2002, 9:18:27 PM2/19/02
to

"Tony Cooper" <tony_co...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3C7304AB...@yahoo.com...

> Skitt wrote:
>
> > The $21,000 I have not spent on cigarettes since then have made other
> > pleasures a lot more affordable. That makes me very happy!
> > --
>
> I am much richer than you are, Skitt.

That's for sure. I am quite non-rich. But the day is approaching when I'll
have to start (by law) dipping into my 401{k}.


> I have never used cocaine,

Me neither -- nor any other stuff of that nature.


> so I must be worth a gazillion at least.

Me too, but ...

> I just can't figure out where it is.

It has been invested in things you would not have now if you had succumbed
to the temptations of younger days. My late, but much younger brother knew
all about that.

Tony Cooper

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Feb 19, 2002, 10:32:37 PM2/19/02
to
Skitt wrote:
>
The additional money has helped me to return from Florida
> and its cheap housing to the outrageously expensive SF Bay Area and get a
> hose there.

If you would of given up something more expensive, you could
have purchased a house with a bib to attach the hose to.

Richard Fontana

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Feb 19, 2002, 11:53:12 PM2/19/02
to
On Tue, 19 Feb 2002 22:32:37 -0500 Tony Cooper wrote:

>If you would of given up something more expensive, you could
>have purchased a house with a bib to attach the hose to.

Oy! No consistency either!

Charles Riggs

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Feb 20, 2002, 2:25:39 AM2/20/02
to
On Wed, 20 Feb 2002 00:32:11 GMT, Padraig Breathnach <padr...@iol.ie>
wrote:

At various times in my life I have had to live on vastly different
amounts of money each month. I find that I spend exactly what I have,
while never feeling either in a pinch or that I was rolling in money.
Amount in = amount out, no problem, as long the amount meets some
required minimum.

Charles Riggs

Charles Riggs

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Feb 20, 2002, 2:25:39 AM2/20/02
to
On Tue, 19 Feb 2002 12:01:06 -0800, "Skitt" <sk...@earthlink.net>
wrote:

>
>"Charles Riggs" <chr...@gofree.indigo.ie> wrote in message
>news:7o947ukfbitqrmvsg...@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 18 Feb 2002 14:52:09 -0800, "Skitt" <sk...@earthlink.net>
>> wrote:

>> >Almost twelve years here. No coughing since then.
>>
>> Ah, but how much happiness say I, puffing away?
>
>The $21,000 I have not spent on cigarettes since then have made other
>pleasures a lot more affordable. That makes me very happy!

You have a point there! At nearly $5 a pack here times 2 per day, I
might be saving at even a greater rate.

Charles Riggs

R J Valentine

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Feb 20, 2002, 3:24:54 AM2/20/02
to

Shouldn't be. Methinks he got you, too.

--
R. J. Valentine <mailto:r...@smart.net>

david56

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Feb 20, 2002, 10:19:25 AM2/20/02
to
dcw wrote:
>
> In article <a4qoad$2cui5$1...@id-113669.news.dfncis.de>,
> Maria Conlon <mcon...@sprynet.com> wrote:
>
> >Well, this is all off-topic, so here's an OBaue: How did we end up
> >with "governor" instead of "gubernator"?
>
> What would be the noun corresponding to "cybernetic"?
>
> David

Cybernetics?

--
David

The address is valid today, but I will change it at to keep ahead of the
spammers.

Never underestimate the power of human stupidity.

david56

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Feb 20, 2002, 10:25:02 AM2/20/02
to
Tony Cooper wrote:
>
> Skitt wrote:
> >
> The additional money has helped me to return from Florida
> > and its cheap housing to the outrageously expensive SF Bay Area and get a
> > hose there.
>
> If you would of given up something more expensive, you could
> have purchased a house with a bib to attach the hose to.

You've thrown me with "bib". I've checked m-w but found only the UK
standard meaning (a cloth to catch dribble).

Tony Cooper

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Feb 20, 2002, 10:41:43 AM2/20/02
to
Charles Riggs wrote:
>
> >The $21,000 I have not spent on cigarettes since then have made other
> >pleasures a lot more affordable. That makes me very happy!
>
> You have a point there! At nearly $5 a pack here times 2 per day, I
> might be saving at even a greater rate.
>
A chance to become an entrepreneur, Charles. Run ads in
newspapers offering "THE SECRET TO AN EXTRA $4,000 A YEAR -
ABSOLUTELY NO WORK INVOLVED!" and sell instructions for
$100. Just tell them to move to Ireland and not smoke. Add
that if the sucker wants to increase the amount, to just not
smoke three packs a day.

Padraig Breathnach

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Feb 20, 2002, 11:11:49 AM2/20/02
to
Tony Cooper <tony_co...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Charles Riggs wrote:
>>
>> >The $21,000 I have not spent on cigarettes since then have made other
>> >pleasures a lot more affordable. That makes me very happy!
>>
>> You have a point there! At nearly $5 a pack here times 2 per day, I
>> might be saving at even a greater rate.
>>
>A chance to become an entrepreneur, Charles. Run ads in
>newspapers offering "THE SECRET TO AN EXTRA $4,000 A YEAR -
>ABSOLUTELY NO WORK INVOLVED!" and sell instructions for
>$100. Just tell them to move to Ireland and not smoke. Add
>that if the sucker wants to increase the amount, to just not
>smoke three packs a day.

There is a downside to this: this generally-pleasant place might get
filled up with cranky people suffering from nicotine withdrawal.

PB

Tony Cooper

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Feb 20, 2002, 11:26:29 AM2/20/02
to
david56 wrote:
>
> Tony Cooper wrote:
> >
> > Skitt wrote:
> > >
> > The additional money has helped me to return from Florida
> > > and its cheap housing to the outrageously expensive SF Bay Area and get a
> > > hose there.
> >
> > If you would of given up something more expensive, you could
> > have purchased a house with a bib to attach the hose to.
>
> You've thrown me with "bib". I've checked m-w but found only the UK
> standard meaning (a cloth to catch dribble).

This was discussed here within the last few months. In the
US, the plumbing connection to which one connects a garden
hose is called a "hose bib". It's a threaded fitting with a
shut-off handle.

It's also called a "sillcock", but I've never heard that
word used. It doesn't M-W either. Perhaps you call it a
"watering tap"?



> The address is valid today, but I will change it at to keep ahead of the
> spammers.
>
> Never underestimate the power of human stupidity.

--

Nehmo Sergheyev

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Feb 20, 2002, 12:09:24 PM2/20/02
to
Arcadian Rises explains one of the reasons he quit smoking...
> ...no need to take an unconvenient
> break then look for an illicit smoking place
> (I used to find them even in hospitals).

Nehmo
On airline flights where smoking is prohibited many nicotine addicts use
the restroom as a hiding place to get their fix.

Recently, a heroic stewardess busted the would-be shoe bomber by the
smell (some reports say sight) of his lit match. Apparently, it hadn't
occurred to him to use the well-established restroom technique. He
probably wasn't a smoker.

I pity the next passenger who absentmindedly tries to light up a simple
cigarette while in the passenger compartment. At the very least, he'll
end up in handcuffs and be subjected to a body cavity search.


(I quit nineteen years ago when forced to in a hospital stay.)
--
**************************
* Nehmo Sergheyev *
**************************
http://home.kc.rr.com/missouri/Susan_Talks.htm


Arcadian Rises

unread,
Feb 20, 2002, 12:17:09 PM2/20/02
to
In article <a4urpt$3ebbp$1...@ID-61580.news.dfncis.de>, "Skitt"
<sk...@earthlink.net> writes:

>
>"Padraig Breathnach" <padr...@iol.ie> wrote in message
>news:vgr57u064inh9ohve...@4ax.com...
>> "Skitt" <sk...@earthlink.net> wrote:

>> I have often asked people who have quit smoking what they have done
>> with the money they saved. I have yet to meet anybody who can tell me.
>> It seems to disappear.
>

In the first few weeks, I bought Nicorette, which cost about the same as 2
packs of cigarets a day. It was worth it, like any money spent to stop smoking
(hypnosis, nicotine patches, accupuncture, or whatever works for you).

Arcadian Rises

unread,
Feb 20, 2002, 12:17:08 PM2/20/02
to
In article <87i67usfro2c2nksb...@4ax.com>, Charles Riggs
<chr...@gofree.indigo.ie> writes:

>You have a point there! At nearly $5 a pack here times 2 per day, I
>might be saving at even a greater rate.
>

I don't believe that financial reward could be a serious motivation to stop
smoking, unless you actually don't have the $5-10 a day and have no choice
but...smoke less.

In my many attempts to stop smoking, during a craving, if I thought about the
money I could save but not smoking, it only made me feel sorry for myself
thinking: am I that poor, to be unable to spend this little money for such a
great pleasure? It's only money...So, for me, although I am not rich, the
financial burden was only an incentive to continue to smoke. When the price of
cigaretts started to highrocket, I said to myself ,"well, I can afforded it".

My real motivation to stop was...embarassment. My best friend passed away last
week because of lung cancer. When I visited him to the hospital, I didn't want
to lie to him that I stopped smoking, so I actually did stop.

Arcadian Rises

unread,
Feb 20, 2002, 12:39:05 PM2/20/02
to
In article <8h6maqc6qrr0d1346...@4ax.com>, Padraig Breathnach
<padr...@iol.ie> writes:

>There is a downside to this: this generally-pleasant place might get
>filled up with cranky people suffering from nicotine withdrawal.
>

Fortunatelly, the nicotine withdrawal doesn't last long, and can be gradually
cured with vitamin B-3 (niacin).

Arcadian Rises

unread,
Feb 20, 2002, 12:39:04 PM2/20/02
to
In article <7LQc8.8082$Q9.33...@twister.kc.rr.com>, "Nehmo Sergheyev"
<neh...@hotmail.com> writes:

>I pity the next passenger who absentmindedly tries to light up a simple
>cigarette while in the passenger compartment.

That passenger may be from another planet, because here, on earth, everyone
knows already, especially the smokers, that you cannot smoke in an airplane.


>
>(I quit nineteen years ago when forced to in a hospital stay.)
>--

Whatever worked for you, it was a great accomplishment.

david56

unread,
Feb 20, 2002, 1:23:51 PM2/20/02
to
Tony Cooper wrote:
>
> david56 wrote:
> >
> > Tony Cooper wrote:
> > >
> > > Skitt wrote:
> > > >
> > > The additional money has helped me to return from Florida
> > > > and its cheap housing to the outrageously expensive SF Bay Area and get a
> > > > hose there.
> > >
> > > If you would of given up something more expensive, you could
> > > have purchased a house with a bib to attach the hose to.
> >
> > You've thrown me with "bib". I've checked m-w but found only the UK
> > standard meaning (a cloth to catch dribble).
>
> This was discussed here within the last few months. In the
> US, the plumbing connection to which one connects a garden
> hose is called a "hose bib". It's a threaded fitting with a
> shut-off handle.
>
> It's also called a "sillcock", but I've never heard that
> word used. It doesn't M-W either. Perhaps you call it a
> "watering tap"?

Like most UK residents I have a tap (= US faucet) on the outside of my
house, which has a threaded "spout" (not quite the right word. To
attach a hose, I screw my hose connector of choice onto the tap. My
choice is for a plastic component which plugs into a "Hozelock" fitting
on the end of my hose. If I want water directly from the tap, it flows
out through the connector with no problems. You can see a very similar
set up in the first photo at
http://www.hozelock.com/UK/watering/I020.htm, although I tend not to use
that shade of nail varnish.

The Hozelock site does not contain the word "bib", which I have never
heard used in this regard.

--
David

david56

unread,
Feb 20, 2002, 1:25:30 PM2/20/02
to

Which you can get, of course, from spending the money you have saved on
Marmite.

<ducks>

Skitt

unread,
Feb 20, 2002, 1:29:48 PM2/20/02
to

"Tony Cooper" <tony_co...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3C7318D5...@yahoo.com...

> Skitt wrote:
> >
> The additional money has helped me to return from Florida
> > and its cheap housing to the outrageously expensive SF Bay Area and get
a
> > hose there.
>
> If you would of given up something more expensive, you could
> have purchased a house with a bib to attach the hose to.

I simply mst qit being so paranoid! This is not the first time I've gone
overboard, dropping the " "s so as not to appear to be British.

Evan Kirshenbaum

unread,
Feb 20, 2002, 1:27:59 PM2/20/02
to
Tony Cooper <tony_co...@yahoo.com> writes:

> david56 wrote:
> >
> > Tony Cooper wrote:
> > >
> > > If you would of given up something more expensive, you could
> > > have purchased a house with a bib to attach the hose to.
> >
> > You've thrown me with "bib". I've checked m-w but found only the UK
> > standard meaning (a cloth to catch dribble).

Threw me, too.

> This was discussed here within the last few months. In the US, the
> plumbing connection to which one connects a garden hose is called a
> "hose bib". It's a threaded fitting with a shut-off handle.
>
> It's also called a "sillcock", but I've never heard that
> word used. It doesn't M-W either. Perhaps you call it a
> "watering tap"?

Well, I've lived in the US all my life, and I've never come across
that term. Is it regional or plumbing jargon? I'm pretty sure that,
growing up in Chicago, it was a "faucet", but I'm not sure whether I'd
now (in California) use that or "spigot".

--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |English grammar is not taught in
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |primary or secondary schools in the
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |United States. Sometimes some
|mythology is taught under that
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com |rubric, but luckily it's usually
(650)857-7572 |ignored, except by the credulous.
| John Lawler
http://www.kirshenbaum.net/


Skitt

unread,
Feb 20, 2002, 1:40:39 PM2/20/02
to

"Charles Riggs" <chr...@gofree.indigo.ie> wrote in message
news:k7i67ukfft8skjrku...@4ax.com...

In general, I agree. Yet, there were times early in my first marriage, when
I had to postpone paying some bills and risk nasty notes from creditors.
Things turned around when I first obtained a home equity loan to pay off the
dozens of creditors. Conditions improved immensely when I was transferred
to Florida, and after selling our mortgaged home in California, we could buy
a house on Merritt Island without a mortgage. Our savings increased by
leaps and bounds, as I was able to keep my California salary in a place
where cost of living and local salaries were much lower. There was no way
that I would spend all that came in!

As it finally turned out, the more than six years we lived there were
essentially housing-cost-free and also with no state income tax.

Skitt

unread,
Feb 20, 2002, 1:46:45 PM2/20/02
to

"Tony Cooper" <tony_co...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3C73CE35...@yahoo.com...

> david56 wrote:
> >
> > Tony Cooper wrote:
> > >
> > > Skitt wrote:
> > > >
> > > The additional money has helped me to return from Florida
> > > > and its cheap housing to the outrageously expensive SF Bay Area and
get a
> > > > hose there.
> > >
> > > If you would of given up something more expensive, you could
> > > have purchased a house with a bib to attach the hose to.
> >
> > You've thrown me with "bib". I've checked m-w but found only the UK
> > standard meaning (a cloth to catch dribble).
>
> This was discussed here within the last few months. In the
> US, the plumbing connection to which one connects a garden
> hose is called a "hose bib". It's a threaded fitting with a
> shut-off handle.
>
> It's also called a "sillcock", but I've never heard that
> word used. It doesn't M-W either. Perhaps you call it a
> "watering tap"?

MWCD10 has it as "bibcock".

Skitt

unread,
Feb 20, 2002, 1:49:25 PM2/20/02
to

"Arcadian Rises" <arcadi...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020220121709...@mb-ft.aol.com...

I wrote none of the above, but now I'll state that will power is free, and
that is what I used to stop smoking.

Skitt

unread,
Feb 20, 2002, 1:58:53 PM2/20/02
to

"Evan Kirshenbaum" <kirsh...@hpl.hp.com> wrote in message
news:8z9oc8...@hpl.hp.com...

> Tony Cooper <tony_co...@yahoo.com> writes:
>
> > david56 wrote:
> > >
> > > Tony Cooper wrote:
> > > >
> > > > If you would of given up something more expensive, you could
> > > > have purchased a house with a bib to attach the hose to.
> > >
> > > You've thrown me with "bib". I've checked m-w but found only the UK
> > > standard meaning (a cloth to catch dribble).
>
> Threw me, too.
>
> > This was discussed here within the last few months. In the US, the
> > plumbing connection to which one connects a garden hose is called a
> > "hose bib". It's a threaded fitting with a shut-off handle.
> >
> > It's also called a "sillcock", but I've never heard that
> > word used. It doesn't M-W either. Perhaps you call it a
> > "watering tap"?
>
> Well, I've lived in the US all my life, and I've never come across
> that term. Is it regional or plumbing jargon? I'm pretty sure that,
> growing up in Chicago, it was a "faucet", but I'm not sure whether I'd
> now (in California) use that or "spigot".

Strange. It didn't even make me blink, as I have known the word for a very
long time. I have no idea from whom I learned it -- maybe from my first
wife of Missouri/Arkansas/Texas/Oklahoma origins.

I was taken aback when I didn't find it in MWCD10. There it is a bibcock,
and that I have never heard.

Richard Fontana

unread,
Feb 20, 2002, 2:31:28 PM2/20/02
to
On Wed, 20 Feb 2002, david56 wrote:

> Like most UK residents I have a tap (= US faucet) on the outside of my
> house, which has a threaded "spout" (not quite the right word.

I don't think I'd use "faucet" for that. Possibly "spigot", which
someone else suggested. I think I only use "faucet" when there's some
structure that the water flows into (especially a sink). I don't even
feel comfortable calling the thingie in a bathtub a "faucet".

I'm unfamiliar with Coop's "bib" usage. It's either a regionalism or
else, and I suspect this is the case, professional or industrial
jargon likely to be known to plumbers and their ilk.

John Varela

unread,
Feb 20, 2002, 3:48:25 PM2/20/02
to
On Wed, 20 Feb 2002 19:31:28 UTC, Richard Fontana <rf...@sparky.cs.nyu.edu>
wrote:

> On Wed, 20 Feb 2002, david56 wrote:
>
> > Like most UK residents I have a tap (= US faucet) on the outside of my
> > house, which has a threaded "spout" (not quite the right word.
>
> I don't think I'd use "faucet" for that. Possibly "spigot", which
> someone else suggested. I think I only use "faucet" when there's some
> structure that the water flows into (especially a sink). I don't even
> feel comfortable calling the thingie in a bathtub a "faucet".

I know what the words spigot and tap mean, but I never use them except in
the fixed phrase "tap water". A valve for delivery of water to a sink, tub,
or garden hose is always a faucet to me.

> I'm unfamiliar with Coop's "bib" usage. It's either a regionalism or
> else, and I suspect this is the case, professional or industrial
> jargon likely to be known to plumbers and their ilk.

I had never heard the term either, but it appears to be a standard jargon
term. Googling on bib +hose yields over 8,000 hits.

--
John Varela

Evan Kirshenbaum

unread,
Feb 20, 2002, 3:50:01 PM2/20/02
to
"Nehmo Sergheyev" <neh...@hotmail.com> writes:

> On airline flights where smoking is prohibited many nicotine addicts
> use the restroom as a hiding place to get their fix.
>
> Recently, a heroic stewardess busted the would-be shoe bomber by the
> smell (some reports say sight) of his lit match. Apparently, it
> hadn't occurred to him to use the well-established restroom
> technique. He probably wasn't a smoker.

All together now,

"Federal law prohibits tampering with, destroying, or disabling
smoke detectors in airplane lavatories". (Mandated by 14 CFR
135.117)

And it does. So at least on US flights, such people can expect there
to be detectors in the lavatories. I don't know whether there are
detectors for them being disabled, but it wouldn't surprise me. The
FAA also apparently requires automatic fire extinguishers in
lavatories.

Has anyone actually *tried* the "well-established restroom technique"
in the last decade or so?

--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |The reason that we don't have
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |"bear-proof" garbage cans in the
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |park is that there is a significant
|overlap in intelligence between the
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com |smartest bears and the dumbest
(650)857-7572 |humans.
| Yosemite Park Ranger
http://www.kirshenbaum.net/


Simon R. Hughes

unread,
Feb 20, 2002, 5:19:58 PM2/20/02
to
Thus Spake Arcadian Rises:

> In article <7LQc8.8082$Q9.33...@twister.kc.rr.com>, "Nehmo Sergheyev"
> <neh...@hotmail.com> writes:
>
> >I pity the next passenger who absentmindedly tries to light up a simple
> >cigarette while in the passenger compartment.
>
> That passenger may be from another planet, because here, on earth, everyone
> knows already, especially the smokers, that you cannot smoke in an airplane.

There were two Britons recently evicted from the US for
drawing attention to themselves by hiding in the toilet together. It
turned out that they had been smoking crack and having sex -- all
the way across the Atlantic.
--
Simon R. Hughes -- http://www.geocities.com/a57998/subconscious/
<!-- Lots to write; nothing to say. -->

Bob Stahl

unread,
Feb 20, 2002, 5:53:47 PM2/20/02
to
John Varela:
>Richard Fontana:

>>I'm unfamiliar with Coop's "bib" usage. It's either a
>>regionalism or else, and I suspect this is the case,
>>professional or industrial jargon likely to be known to
>>plumbers and their ilk.
>I had never heard the term either, but it appears to be
>a standard jargon term. Googling on bib +hose yields
>over 8,000 hits.

Architectural plans use such terms for exterior faucets threaded for
standard hoses, in agreement with building code usage and the American
Institute of Architects' "Architectural Graphic Standards" (both the
current edition and the "Traditional Details" edition, with
representative details from 1932-1951). The terms are also found in the
ARTFL 1913 Webster's dictionary, and in current architectural and
builders' glossaries. Gardeners, landscapers, engineers, general
contractors, plumbing contractors, handymen, and plumbers' ilk use such
terms. Hardware stores put these terms on stock labels.

I've been wondering what vocabulary term would be appropriate --
"standard jargon term" seems as sufficient as any. "Technical" or
"architectural" are too specific. "Construction term" might be better,
but does not cover all common usages.

--
Bob Stahl

Richard

unread,
Feb 20, 2002, 8:23:47 PM2/20/02
to
On Wed, 20 Feb 2002 18:25:30 +0000, david56
<bass.a...@ntlworld.com> wrote:

>Arcadian Rises wrote:
>>
>> In article <8h6maqc6qrr0d1346...@4ax.com>, Padraig Breathnach
>> <padr...@iol.ie> writes:
>>
>> >There is a downside to this: this generally-pleasant place might get
>> >filled up with cranky people suffering from nicotine withdrawal.
>> >
>>
>> Fortunatelly, the nicotine withdrawal doesn't last long, and can be gradually
>> cured with vitamin B-3 (niacin).
>
>Which you can get, of course, from spending the money you have saved on
>Marmite.
>
><ducks>
>

Saw something amazing on telly last night - a recipe involving
Vegemite

http://www.abc.net.au/occasionalcook/recipes/s485256.htm

--
Richard Bollard
Australian Mathematics Trust
Canberra, Australia

CyberCypher

unread,
Feb 20, 2002, 8:24:42 PM2/20/02
to
"Nehmo Sergheyev" <neh...@hotmail.com> held forth in
news:7LQc8.8082$Q9.33...@twister.kc.rr.com:

[...]

> (I quit [smoking] nineteen years ago when forced to
> in a hospital stay.)

Then you weren't a *true* addict. My late (cancer) ex-wife was in the
hospital with a fractured larynx (result of a head-on collision and her
throat hitting the dashboard) and demanded that her 12-year-old sister
smuggle in a pack fo cigarettes to her during the first week of her
stay. Needless to say, she almost coughed herself to death 32 years ago
instead of in 2001. As soon as she was able to bear it, she began
sucking in the smoke at her normal 30 cigs/day rate.

--

Franke

CyberCypher

unread,
Feb 20, 2002, 8:27:19 PM2/20/02
to
Evan Kirshenbaum <kirsh...@hpl.hp.com> held forth in
news:vgcrc1...@hpl.hp.com:

[...].

>
> Has anyone actually *tried* the "well-established restroom technique"
> in the last decade or so?
>

Last one I heard of was that drunk Japanese passenger on an American
flight back in 2000. Locked hisself in and wouldn't come out till the
federal marshalls forced the door and threw him into jail.

--

Franke

Maria Conlon

unread,
Feb 20, 2002, 8:40:59 PM2/20/02
to

Arcadian Rises wrote

>I don't believe that financial reward could be a serious motivation
to stop
>smoking, unless you actually don't have the $5-10 a day and have no
choice
>but...smoke less.

[...]

Somewhere in one of these posts, I said that "money" was the main
reason I quit. It was. I wasn't thinking in terms of "financial
reward," however. I was thinking in terms of being able to pay my
bills a little more easily.

Cigarettes are somewhat cheaper in the US than they are in
Ireland -- especially the "store brands," which is what I smoked --
but I was buying two cartons[1] a week, sometimes more, and I was
spending $200-300 a month. (My tendency was to smoke half a
cigarette and then put it out. I never relit it, but reached for
another.)

[1] Cartons here have 10 packs. Each pack has 20 cigarettes.

Anyway, it finally dawned on me how stupid I was being. I may as
well have lit dollar bills. It also occurred to me that I wouldn't
have such a tough time paying my bills if I had $200-300 more per
month. And so I quit.

I don't feel any better health-wise, and I miss those nice little
pleasurable moments. (Any smoker will know what I mean.) But it
hasn't been very difficult, partly because I can't smoke in our
office building anyway.

And I've had absolutely wonderful support. One gentleman here
offered to be my "coach." I can call him any time I need some
encouragement. I haven't had to call him yet, but I'm glad the offer
is still there. My intention is stay off cigarettes. I'm pretty sure
I can do it. Getting by the first day gave me confidence.

Maria


CyberCypher

unread,
Feb 20, 2002, 8:32:32 PM2/20/02
to
"Skitt" <sk...@earthlink.net> held forth in
news:a50r2s$3pm37$1...@ID-61580.news.dfncis.de:

>
> "Arcadian Rises" <arcadi...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20020220121709...@mb-ft.aol.com...
>> In article <a4urpt$3ebbp$1...@ID-61580.news.dfncis.de>, "Skitt"
>> <sk...@earthlink.net> writes:
>>
>> >
>> >"Padraig Breathnach" <padr...@iol.ie> wrote in message
>> >news:vgr57u064inh9ohve...@4ax.com...
>> >> "Skitt" <sk...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>> >> I have often asked people who have quit smoking what they have
>> >> done with the money they saved. I have yet to meet anybody who
>> >> can tell me. It seems to disappear.
>> >
>>
>> In the first few weeks, I bought Nicorette, which cost about the
>> same as 2 packs of cigarets a day. It was worth it, like any
>> money spent to stop
> smoking
>> (hypnosis, nicotine patches, accupuncture, or whatever works for
>> you).
>
> I wrote none of the above, but now I'll state that will power is
> free, and that is what I used to stop smoking.

For me it wasn't will power at all. The secret was a desire to quit
stronger than a desire to smoke. I never had to use will power to keep
from picking up another cigarette (except in my dreams, which were
often smoke filled) after I quit cold turkey.

I used will power many times in the late 60s when I was in the Navy. My
efforts always failed after a few hours or a few days. I understood why
when my friend Larry told me that it was because stupid reasons like
"It's healthier not to smoke" and "Quitting saves you money" could not
compete with "I wanna cigarette!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" He was right. I
gave up trying and it happened naturally.

--

Franke

Maria Conlon

unread,
Feb 20, 2002, 9:01:46 PM2/20/02
to

Tony Cooper wrote

>Dear Sis:


[snip a hundred lines or so of genuine entertainment.]

Tony, I just saw that this post of yours, in its entirety, has made
it to alt.humor.best-of-usenet.

You're going to develop a wide following if you're not careful.

Maria
A Normal Icon.
Matti says so.

Skitt

unread,
Feb 20, 2002, 9:13:40 PM2/20/02
to

"CyberCypher" <Cyber...@DLO.com> wrote

> For me it wasn't will power at all. The secret was a desire to quit
> stronger than a desire to smoke. I never had to use will power to keep
> from picking up another cigarette (except in my dreams, which were
> often smoke filled) after I quit cold turkey.

About that willpower (please excuse me for leading you astray by previously
writing it as two words) -- of course, the desire to quit was primary -- the
willpower made it an unfaltering resolve.


> I used will power many times in the late 60s when I was in the Navy. My
> efforts always failed after a few hours or a few days. I understood why
> when my friend Larry told me that it was because stupid reasons like
> "It's healthier not to smoke" and "Quitting saves you money" could not
> compete with "I wanna cigarette!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" He was right. I
> gave up trying and it happened naturally.

My quitting was triggered by several things (I know I have mentioned them
before):
the death of my wife because of smoking and alcohol related problems,
the cost of cigarettes,
the inconvenience of looking for places where one can smoke,
the interference of smoking with other tasks,
the ever persistent morning cough,
and finally, the refusal of my present wife to date a smoker.

It took all of these, but mainly the last one, to make me want to quit.

CyberCypher

unread,
Feb 20, 2002, 9:20:05 PM2/20/02