i want a English name
fjh...@hotmail.com
find a good name. My name is Jiahui Fu in my language. Please give me
a name sounds like that. Thank u ~~
jerry_f...@yahoo.com
Are you male or female? And do you want a name that sounds like
"Jiahui" or one that sounds like "Fu"?
I suspect you want one that sounds like "Jiahui". For a man, "Jay" is
probably the closest, if I'm right in thinking that "hui" sounds like
"whey" with a lot of friction in the wh.
There are many common names for both men and women that begin with J.
(I have one of them, but I don't particularly recommend it.) You
might just want to pick one of them. For distant sound similarity,
"Jack" is my second choice for a man, and "Jackie" is my first choice
for a woman. All the names I've mentioned are reasonably well-liked,
I think.
--
Jerry Friedman
Ian Jackson
<e6caf023-fbce-4ab8...@p31g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
"jerry_f...@yahoo.com" <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> writes
You might also like to consider "Joe", "Joseph" or "Joey" ("Jo" or
"Joanne", if you're female). But it is a difficult one to find something
which sounds like "Fu". Maybe "Farr"? This is a fine old English name
meaning 'traveller' or 'voyager'.
http://www.thinkbabynames.com/meaning/1/Farr
--
Ian
Ian Jackson
<ianREMOVET...@g3ohx.demon.co.uk> writes
I have just realised that your name may be 'the opposite way around'. Is
"Fu" your family name, and "Jiahui" your given name? If so, maybe we
should be looking for something which sounds like "Fu Jiahui".
--
Ian
J. J. Lodder
the Omrud
Or perhaps more accurately, do you wish to be addressed by a name which
sounds like as "Jiahui Fu", "Fu Jiahui", "Fu" or "Jiahui"?
--
David
![Reinhold [Rey] Aman's profile photo](http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjWaT0LUDfKA5mIbowVbHAIA3z5Ut7Y8IMosdHd3OIhPWDnj=s40-c)
Reinhold [Rey] Aman
> Ian Jackson wrote again:
> >> fjh...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >>> I am studying in the U.S. I want a [AN] English name, but i
> >>> cannot find a good name. My name is Jiahui Fu in my language.
What *is* your language? Chinese?
> >>> Please give me a name sounds like that. Thank u ~~
[snipped]
> > But it is a difficult one to find something which
> > sounds like "Fu".
It is? How about "Few" or "Flew" or "Flue"?
> > Maybe "Farr"? This is a fine old English
> > name meaning 'traveller' or 'voyager'.
> > http://www.thinkbabynames.com/meaning/1/Farr
"Farr" is really *stupid*, because Chinese have a hard time pronouncing
<r>. S/he'll end up saying "Fall."
> I have just realised that your name may be 'the opposite way
> around'. Is "Fu" your family name,
Of course. S/he's bloody Chinese!
> and "Jiahui" your given name?
Of course, from two words: Jia + Hui.
> If so, maybe we should be looking for
> something which sounds like "Fu Jiahui".
No, because s/he wants an ENGLISH-sounding name, with given (= first)
name first and surname last; something that sounds like "Jiahui Fu."
"Jim Huey Few" (if male).
"Few" rhymes with and sounds close to "Fu."
"Huey" rhymes with and sounds close to "Hui."
Jane H. Few (if female). No "middle" name, just the initial "H."
OR: "Jeremiah Hyman Fugelstein" (if you want to sound Jewish).
But why don't you keep your original name? "Jiahui Fu" is a pretty
name, easy to pronounce and spell. Whether you call yourself "Fu" or
"Few" or "Flew" or "Flue," you'll still look and sound Chinese. If you
keep "Jiahui," most of your English-speaking friends will shorten it to
"Jia" ("Gia"), if you're female.
--
~~~ Leinhold [Ley] Aman ~~~
Ian Jackson
<am...@sonic.net> writes
>Ian Jackson wrote:
>
>> Ian Jackson wrote again:
>
>> >> fjh...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>> >>> I am studying in the U.S. I want a [AN] English name, but i
>> >>> cannot find a good name. My name is Jiahui Fu in my language.
>
>What *is* your language? Chinese?
>
>> >>> Please give me a name sounds like that. Thank u ~~
>
>[snipped]
>
>> > But it is a difficult one to find something which
>> > sounds like "Fu".
>
>It is? How about "Few" or "Flew" or "Flue"?
>
>> > Maybe "Farr"? This is a fine old English
>> > name meaning 'traveller' or 'voyager'.
>> > http://www.thinkbabynames.com/meaning/1/Farr
>
>"Farr" is really *stupid*, because Chinese have a hard time pronouncing
><r>. S/he'll end up saying "Fall."
>
'Faah'. There really ain't no 'R' in it!
But aren't you being a bit presumptuous that Jiahui Fu cannot pronounce
his/her Rs?
However, I agree that 'Few' might be a better substitute (even if it is
even less-common than Farr).
http://www.surnamedb.com/surname.aspx?name=Few
>> I have just realised that your name may be 'the opposite way
>> around'. Is "Fu" your family name,
>
>Of course. S/he's bloody Chinese!
>
>> and "Jiahui" your given name?
>
>Of course, from two words: Jia + Hui.
Unfortunately, I lack your expertise in Far-Eastern languages!
>
--
Ian
Paul {Hamilton Rooney}
>
> "Few" rhymes with and sounds close to "Fu."
> "Huey" rhymes with and sounds close to "Hui."
Um, not in Pinyin.
Fu is neither first nor last - it is simply the family name. First and
last have no real meaning here.
It is a girl's name, so:
Foo Jaaa Hway
I can think of no close-sounding English name. If she were one of my
students I would suggest either Vivian or Loretta, just for the
language practice.
Spehro Pefhany
How do you like "Julie Fu"?
http://www.thinkbabynames.com/meaning/0/Julie
Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
sp...@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
John Holmes
Joey Fu.
--
Regards
John
for mail: my initials plus a u e
at tpg dot com dot au
tony cooper
You could go by your initials: JF (pronounced "jay eff". It's not
uncommon for Americans to do so.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Paul Wolff
Bob G
Algernon is a fine English name, but I don't think it sounds like
Jiahui.
I would suggest Johnny Frank.
jerry_f...@yahoo.com
> fjh...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > I am studying in the U.S. I want a English name, but i cannot
> > find a good name. My name is Jiahui Fu in my language. Please give me
> > a name sounds like that. Thank u ~~
>
> Joey Fu.
Or Joy, for a woman. That might be closer than my earlier suggestion
of "Jackie".
--
Jerry Friedman
CDB
> fjh...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> I am studying in the U.S. I want a English name, but i cannot
>> find a good name. My name is Jiahui Fu in my language. Please
>> give me a name sounds like that. Thank u ~~
> Joey Fu.
I think that is the closest-sounding common name to "Jiahui". A
female choice might be "Joy".
Ian Jackson
<bb9d5ff0-b773-485e...@t18g2000prt.googlegroups.com>,
"jerry_f...@yahoo.com" <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> writes
I second that. Joy Fu sounds nice!
--
Ian
R H Draney
Or to stretch things a little, "Zoe"....r
--
"Governor Palin, I served with Dan Quayle.
I knew Dan Quayle; Dan Quayle was a friend of mine.
Governor Palin, you're no Dan Quayle."
Chuck Riggs
Why not ask one of your several friends on Facebook? Presumably, they
know you far better than any of us do, unless I've missed your other
posts.
--
Regards,
Chuck Riggs
Near Dublin, Ireland
jerry_f...@yahoo.com
<ianREMOVETHISjack...@g3ohx.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In message
> <bb9d5ff0-b773-485e-953c-912313dfe...@t18g2000prt.googlegroups.com>,
> "jerry_fried...@yahoo.com" <jerry_fried...@yahoo.com> writes
>
> >On Nov 3, 4:27 am, "John Holmes" <see...@instead.com> wrote:
> >> fjh...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >> > I am studying in the U.S. I want a English name, but i cannot
> >> > find a good name. My name is Jiahui Fu in my language. Please give me
> >> > a name sounds like that. Thank u ~~
>
> >> Joey Fu.
>
> >Or Joy, for a woman. That might be closer than my earlier suggestion
> >of "Jackie".
>
> >--
> >Jerry Friedman
>
> I second that. Joy Fu sounds nice!
Actually, I now wonder whether it sounds too close to "joyful".
--
Jerry Friedman
John Varela
(in article
<ccae5145-90b1-4060...@s9g2000prg.googlegroups.com>):
> I am studying in the U.S. I want a English name, but i cannot
> find a good name. My name is Jiahui Fu in my language. Please give me
> a name sounds like that. Thank u ~~
There is nothing wrong with retaining the name Fu. There are many
Americans named Fu. I just checked my local telephone directory and
found 19 people plus several businesses named Fu.
--
John Varela
Trade NEW lamps for OLD for email.
Skitt
I can't get Yahoo Foo out of my mind, but that's a different kind of "J"
sound. Never mind.
--
Skitt
Ever ready to retract the aforesaid and aver the opposite.
Fred
<fjh...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ccae5145-90b1-4060...@s9g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
>I am studying in the U.S. I want a English name, but i cannot
> find a good name. My name is Jiahui Fu in my language. Please give me
> a name sounds like that. Thank u ~~
You want 'an' English name.
Reinhold [Rey] Aman
> Reinhold [Rey] Aman writes:
> > Ian Jackson wrote:
[...]
> > "Farr" is really *stupid*, because Chinese have a hard time
> > pronouncing <r>. S/he'll end up saying "Fall."
> >
> No he/she wouldn't. Even in 'Engrish', 'Farr' would be pronounced
> 'Faah'. There really ain't no 'R' in it!
That depends on one's dialect. Some pronounce it with <r>, others
don't. Google "rhotic" for more information.
> But aren't you being a bit presumptuous that Jiahui Fu cannot
> pronounce his/her Rs?
If she's a "typical" Chinese person, she can't. I hear it all the time
from the local Chinese.
> However, I agree that 'Few' might be a better substitute (even if
> it is even less-common than Farr).
> http://www.surnamedb.com/surname.aspx?name=Few
>
> >> I have just realised that your name may be 'the opposite way
> >> around'. Is "Fu" your family name,
> >
> > Of course. S/he's bloody Chinese!
> >
> >> and "Jiahui" your given name?
> >
> > Of course, from two words: Jia + Hui.
>
> Unfortunately, I lack your expertise in Far-Eastern languages!
Thanks, but my expertise in Far-Eastern languages is next to zero. I
have stacks of Chinese, Japanese, Korean (etc.) grammars and
dictionaries but know only the basics. From time to time I teach
English to Chinese immigrants and learn from their mistakes and difficulties.
Legalds,
~~~ Reinhold [Rey] Aman ~~~
Reinhold [Rey] Aman
> Reinhold [Rey] Aman wrote:
> >
> > "Few" rhymes with and sounds close to "Fu."
> > "Huey" rhymes with and sounds close to "Hui."
>
> Um, not in Pinyin.
Well, yes and no. It depends on the transliteration system used....
>
> Fu is neither first nor last - it is simply the family name. First
> and last have no real meaning here.
Yes, I'm aware of that. That's why I used "given" (= our "first" and
"middle" names) and "surname" (= family name) instead of "last name."
> It is a girl's name, so:
>
> Foo Jaaa Hway
>
> I can think of no close-sounding English name. If she were one of my
> students I would suggest either Vivian or Loretta, just for the
> language practice.
Hao / Hau.
Frank ess
I want to know if I missed the part where Jiahu Fu made it clear which
is a family name and which a "given"? And whether Jiahu Fu wants to
change one or the other, or both.
I was embarrassed when as a seventh grader I saluted my new Hong Kong
pen pal, "Chan Ho Leung" by writing, "Dear Chan". He had to laugh. I
had to blush.
--
Frank ess
Reinhold [Rey] Aman
> John Holmes wrote:
[...]
> > Joey Fu.
> Or Joy, for a woman.
Naaa, that's too saucy.
R H Draney
>
>Ian Jackson wrote:
>
>> Reinhold [Rey] Aman writes:
>> > Ian Jackson wrote:
>
>> > "Farr" is really *stupid*, because Chinese have a hard time
>> > pronouncing <r>. S/he'll end up saying "Fall."
>> >
>> No he/she wouldn't. Even in 'Engrish', 'Farr' would be pronounced
>> 'Faah'. There really ain't no 'R' in it!
>
>That depends on one's dialect. Some pronounce it with <r>, others
>don't. Google "rhotic" for more information.
>
>> But aren't you being a bit presumptuous that Jiahui Fu cannot
>> pronounce his/her Rs?
>
>If she's a "typical" Chinese person, she can't. I hear it all the time
>from the local Chinese.
I'm told that one feature of a Beijing accent is a really thick post-vocalic R
sound...had the same mistaken impression as you before I heard Faye Wong's song
"Di-Dar"....r
CDB
There are Chinese family names with two syllables (Sima, Ouyang), but
not many. It's highly probable that "Fu" is the family name, "Jiahu"
the given name. If not, perhaps the OP will post again and tell us.
Glenn Knickerbocker
> I am studying in the U.S. I want a English name,
In the U.S., any foreign name that can be pronounced reasonably using
English sounds and doesn't sound like a swear word is fair play. Jiahui
Fu sounds like a perfectly good English name to me. A quick Google
search finds at least two American academic authors named Jiahui.
ŹR
John Varela
(in article <490F578A...@sonic.net>):
>> But aren't you being a bit presumptuous that Jiahui Fu cannot
>> pronounce his/her Rs?
>
> If she's a "typical" Chinese person, she can't. I hear it all the time
> from the local Chinese.
To me it seems that it goes the other way. A member of our golf group
of retired men is Chinese, which has inspired the rest of us racist
bastards, when we see a blue flag on a green [1], to exclaim, "Brue
frag!". (We were led in this by a member who is originally from
Dublin, Ireland.)
[1] For those who don't play golf, the system on many golf courses is
to color the flag red, white, or blue, to indicate whether the flag
(and the hole in which it sits) is at the front, middle, or back of the
green. Not that it matters for players of our skill level.
Robert Bannister
Now that we've had the pronunciation explained, the problem I see with
that is that it would sound like "Joey", which doesn't sound very feminine.
--
Rob Bannister
Spehro Pefhany
Perhaps "Fu Barr" for a guy.
R H Draney
>
>Now that we've had the pronunciation explained, the problem I see with
>that is that it would sound like "Joey", which doesn't sound very feminine.
Depends on your associations with the name:
http://tonova.typepad.com/thesuddencurve/2007/10/remember-joey-h.html
Reinhold [Rey] Aman
> Reinhold [Rey] Aman wrote:
[Ian Jackson wrote:]
> >> But aren't you being a bit presumptuous that Jiahui Fu cannot
> >> pronounce his/her Rs?
> >
> > If she's a "typical" Chinese person, she can't. I hear it all the
> > time from the local Chinese.
>
> To me it seems that it goes the other way. A member of our golf group
> of retired men is Chinese, which has inspired the rest of us racist
> bastards, when we see a blue flag on a green [1], to exclaim, "Brue
> frag!". (We were led in this by a member who is originally from
> Dublin, Ireland.)
[...]
Oldie but Goodie:
The Greek waiter in a New York diner kept teasing Mr. Chan, his steady
Chinese customer: "Good molning, Mistel Chan. The usual? Thlee flied
eggs with flied lice?"
After months of this teasing, Mr. Chan had enough and decided to pay for
elocution lessons to learn how to pronounce "three," "fried" and "rice."
After he was finally able to pronounce these words properly, the next
time that smart-ass waiter asked his usual mocking question, Mr. Chan
replied calmly:
"No, I'll have thrrree frrried eggs with frrried rrrice, you Gleek plick!"
~~~ Reinhold [Ley] Aman ~~~
J. J. Lodder
> I am studying in the U.S. I want a English name, but i cannot
> find a good name. My name is Jiahui Fu in my language. Please give me
> a name sounds like that. Thank u ~~
Why?
Let those Americans adapt,
Jan
J. J. Lodder
> J. J. Lodder wrote:
> I like that concept. When I go to The Netherlands and request a bowl of
> Cincinnati chili a restaurant, I'll expect the Dutch adapt to my needs
> and serve it.
Don't play dumb, Murray.
The Dutch will accept you as Murray Arnow,
and will not insist on you calling youself
Mark Aarnauw, for example,
Jan
R H Draney
>
>It isn't a question of playing dumb; it is the unreasonable expectation
>that Chinese names will not be problematic for English speakers. Chinese
>is a tonal language which is not appreciated by many Westerners--this in
>part explains why Wong, Huang and Ng are different spellings of the same
>name. Jiahu Fu is reasonable in his/her request. He/she has probably
>already had problems with his/her name and wishes to be polite in trying
>to accomodate to the Westerner's inability to say his/her name.
>
>An anecdote may demonstrate the problem. On one of my jobs I was
>requested to contact a female named Jo. I knew she was Chinese, but only
>later did I learn she spelled her name Xuia; I spelled her name the way
>it sounded to me.
A name doesn't have to be Chinese for that to happen...I've seen mine taken down
as "Drany", "Drainy", "Dranney", "Darney", "Braney", "Graney", "Dranery",
"Danley", "Delaney", and "Mr Aney"...presented with the correct spelling,
attempts at pronunciation yield a similar breadth of range....
My favorite bit of mailing-labelling mutation was a letter addressed to "R
Hdraney"...I couldn't bring myself to be angry; not only did they get all the
letters right, they even got them in the right order....r
--
"You got Schadenfreude on my Weltanschauung!"
"You got Weltanschauung in my Schadenfreude!"
Default User
It seems to be one of those things that many Asian insist upon. When I
was grad student many years ago, there was also a student from Taiwan.
When he graduated, he was able to get a green card and stay, which he
was quite proud of. At that time, he asked the other grad students to
help him select an "American name". We initially suggested that he just
use his own, which was "Yo-Zen" as I recall, but he was insistent. I
think he ended up going with "Joe", but it's been a long time.
Comedian Margaret Cho has addressed this in her stand-up routine. Even
though born in the US, she still has a "Korean name" and an "American
name". The former is "Moran". I'm not sure how they handle that on
birth certificates and other official documents.
Brian
--
If televison's a babysitter, the Internet is a drunk librarian who
won't shut up.
-- Dorothy Gambrell (http://catandgirl.com)
Paul Wolff
>>> J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>> >fjhx_x wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> I am studying in the U.S. I want a English name, but i cannot
>>> >> find a good name. My name is Jiahui Fu in my language. Please give me
>>> >> a name sounds like that. Thank u ~~
>>> >Why?
>>The Dutch will accept you as Murray Arnow,
>>and will not insist on you calling youself
>>Mark Aarnauw, for example,
>>
I am temperamentally aligned with Jan on this one. Perhaps Chinese
people don't get so attached to their names as we do in lands that speak
European languages. I wouldn't wish to adopt an alias when going
abroad, although I can see some attractions.
>
>It isn't a question of playing dumb; it is the unreasonable expectation
>that Chinese names will not be problematic for English speakers. Chinese
>is a tonal language which is not appreciated by many Westerners--this in
>part explains why Wong, Huang and Ng are different spellings of the same
>name. Jiahu Fu is reasonable in his/her request. He/she has probably
>already had problems with his/her name and wishes to be polite in trying
>to accomodate to the Westerner's inability to say his/her name.
>
>An anecdote may demonstrate the problem. On one of my jobs I was
>requested to contact a female named Jo. I knew she was Chinese, but only
>later did I learn she spelled her name Xuia; I spelled her name the way
>it sounded to me.
I don't really understand this. If her name was sounded "Jo", why did
she try to spell it X-U-I-A (Ksooia) in Latin characters? "Dyo" would
make more sense. There seems to be a misapprehension of the Latin
alphabet over there in the far east.
--
Paul
TsuiDF
> I am studying in the U.S. I want a English name, but i cannot
> find a good name. My name is Jiahui Fu in my language. Please give me
> a name sounds like that. Thank u ~~
My suggestion is 'Jewel'. It sounds a bit southern or perhaps
slightly eccentric, but it has a certain sound symmetry with the
initial sound in 'Jia' and the 'ui' in 'hui'... and it's feminine and
implies 'great value'.
just my two cents,
cheers,
Stephanie (Xu Defen)
in Bu lu sai er
Robert Bannister
> I am temperamentally aligned with Jan on this one. Perhaps Chinese
> people don't get so attached to their names as we do in lands that speak
> European languages. I wouldn't wish to adopt an alias when going
> abroad, although I can see some attractions.
I'm interested to know what you mean by an alias. Looking at the
spelling of your name, my initial reaction would be to call you "Powl
(as in owl) Volf", which is more or less what you would be called in
Germany; in other countries it would come out slightly different, but
possibly still not what you call yourself. What do you expect those
people who can't pronounce W to do?
Having travelled, I expect my name to be pronounced in varying different
ways, and if I went to live permanently in a country where they found my
name hard to pronounce, I think I would like to choose an easier name.
--
Rob Bannister
Bob Cunningham
I already live in a country where a surprising number of people find
"Cunningham" hard to pronounce. I've had that experience with more
than one Central American immigrant who otherwise spoke acceptable
English.
When I used to take Russian classes, there were usually a few native
speakers of Slavic languages in the class. (I assumed they were
taking the class for easy credit.) Even when those people seemed to
have an entirely adequate command of English, they still produced
strange results when they tried to pronounce "Cunningham". "Calligan"
is one such result I remember.
Incidentally, in one of those classes there was a young man from, if I
remember right, Czechoslovakia*. He told me that he spoke several
European languages and English was the easiest of all to learn. I
asked him, "How about the crazy spelling?" He replied, "Americans
can't spell, either".
* Yes, there was a Czechoslovakia in those days.
--
Bob Cunningham, Southern California, USA. Western American English
Raymond O'Hara
The trouble with Asian names is that while we know they put the names
in the reverse order than we do, too often the press reverses that
causing the confusion.
Also many ASsians do as the op and give themselves an "English" and
thus Asian names never get a chance to get established.
Most "English" names are not English at all but are names from non-
English countries that have made the jump.
Paul Wolff
>Paul Wolff wrote:
>
>> I am temperamentally aligned with Jan on this one. Perhaps Chinese
>>people don't get so attached to their names as we do in lands that
>>speak European languages. I wouldn't wish to adopt an alias when
>>going abroad, although I can see some attractions.
>
>I'm interested to know what you mean by an alias.
I mean telling people my name is Chompoo when I visit Thailand, or Mario
when I go to Italy, or Vladimir in Russia.
>Looking at the spelling of your name, my initial reaction would be to
>call you "Powl (as in owl) Volf", which is more or less what you would
>be called in Germany; in other countries it would come out slightly
>different, but possibly still not what you call yourself. What do you
>expect those people who can't pronounce W to do?
When I am in Germany I pronounce my name as you have suggested. If
someone in any country can't pronounce it as I do, which is of course
almost certain even in other English-speaking countries (your accent may
not be mine), I expect them to use an approximation that they can
manage.
Compared with the apparent Chinese practice of claiming an entirely new
name if the proper name is perceived as unpronounceable, why not just
give out an approximation that would work well for all parties?
>
>Having travelled, I expect my name to be pronounced in varying
>different ways, and if I went to live permanently in a country where
>they found my name hard to pronounce, I think I would like to choose an
>easier name.
I tend to meet the practice not in the case of permanent immigration,
but in business relations. There's this guy in Shanghai (could also be
a woman, I suppose) who signs his emails "Goliath" and I just wonder
what his state of mind really is.
[Not actually "Goliath", but comparable in origin]
--
Paul
LFS
> Robert Bannister <rob...@bigpond.com> wrote
>> Paul Wolff wrote:
>>
>>> I am temperamentally aligned with Jan on this one. Perhaps Chinese
>>> people don't get so attached to their names as we do in lands that
>>> speak European languages. I wouldn't wish to adopt an alias when
>>> going abroad, although I can see some attractions.
>>
>> I'm interested to know what you mean by an alias.
>
> I mean telling people my name is Chompoo when I visit Thailand, or Mario
> when I go to Italy, or Vladimir in Russia.
>
>> Looking at the spelling of your name, my initial reaction would be to
>> call you "Powl (as in owl) Volf", which is more or less what you would
>> be called in Germany; in other countries it would come out slightly
>> different, but possibly still not what you call yourself. What do you
>> expect those people who can't pronounce W to do?
>
> When I am in Germany I pronounce my name as you have suggested. If
> someone in any country can't pronounce it as I do, which is of course
> almost certain even in other English-speaking countries (your accent may
> not be mine), I expect them to use an approximation that they can manage.
>
> Compared with the apparent Chinese practice of claiming an entirely new
> name if the proper name is perceived as unpronounceable, why not just
> give out an approximation that would work well for all parties?
We have a young Polish colleague whose first name is pronounced Alicia
although spelled a little differently. Her surname is pronounceable
after some practice but sounds nothing like the way it looks written
down (not unusual with Polish names IME). This means that finding her in
telephone lists for example can be difficult and referring students to
her is often problematic, especially when they are from overseas and
have enough trouble with my own name.
After a term with us she announced that she would help us by altering
her name. I assumed that she would suggest some simplification to her
surname but no, she just told us to call her Alice in future. Duh.
[..]
--
Laura
(emulate St. George for email)
R H Draney
>
>Paul Wolff wrote:
>>
>> Compared with the apparent Chinese practice of claiming an entirely new
>> name if the proper name is perceived as unpronounceable, why not just
>> give out an approximation that would work well for all parties?
Two of the most popular Chinese singers are Cai Yilin and Sun Yanzi...the former
calls herself "Jolin" in "English", which bears a strong resemblance to her
actual name...the latter uses the name "Stefanie" (incidentally, she's one of
those few artists worldwide to release *two* albums both titled simply with her
name, 2000's "Yan Zi" and 2004's "Stefanie")....
>We have a young Polish colleague whose first name is pronounced Alicia
>although spelled a little differently. Her surname is pronounceable
>after some practice but sounds nothing like the way it looks written
>down (not unusual with Polish names IME). This means that finding her in
>telephone lists for example can be difficult and referring students to
>her is often problematic, especially when they are from overseas and
>have enough trouble with my own name.
>
>After a term with us she announced that she would help us by altering
>her name. I assumed that she would suggest some simplification to her
>surname but no, she just told us to call her Alice in future. Duh.
I recall a story about a call center in India where the employees were
encouraged to take up American personae, including suitable names...one young
woman was still in the process of trying to think up a good American name for
herself so nobody on the phone would suspect she was Indian....
Her actual name was "Anita"....r
Skitt
> Robert Bannister wrote
>> Paul Wolff wrote:
>>> I am temperamentally aligned with Jan on this one. Perhaps Chinese
>>> people don't get so attached to their names as we do in lands that
>>> speak European languages. I wouldn't wish to adopt an alias when
>>> going abroad, although I can see some attractions.
>>
>> I'm interested to know what you mean by an alias.
>
> I mean telling people my name is Chompoo when I visit Thailand, or
> Mario when I go to Italy, or Vladimir in Russia.
>
>> Looking at the spelling of your name, my initial reaction would be to
>> call you "Powl (as in owl) Volf", which is more or less what you
>> would be called in Germany; in other countries it would come out
>> slightly different, but possibly still not what you call yourself.
>> What do you expect those people who can't pronounce W to do?
>
> When I am in Germany I pronounce my name as you have suggested. If
> someone in any country can't pronounce it as I do, which is of course
> almost certain even in other English-speaking countries (your accent
> may not be mine), I expect them to use an approximation that they can
> manage.
>
> Compared with the apparent Chinese practice of claiming an entirely
> new name if the proper name is perceived as unpronounceable, why not
> just give out an approximation that would work well for all parties?
Originally, I didn't have a middle name. When I came to the USA, upon
obtaining citizenship, I selected a new first name (Alec), demoting my
original first name (Uldis) to the middle name slot. Our last name (it was
a long and hyphenated one) was shortened by the entire family at that time.
That made things somewhat easier for everyone.
--
Skitt (AmE)
Robert Bannister
> We have a young Polish colleague whose first name is pronounced Alicia
> although spelled a little differently. Her surname is pronounceable
> after some practice but sounds nothing like the way it looks written
> down (not unusual with Polish names IME). This means that finding her in
> telephone lists for example can be difficult
I have two Albanian acquaintances whose surnames both sound like
"jar-jass". One spells it Jagos, the other Hxahxas (I think). Very hard
when I want to find one or the other in the phone book.
--
Rob Bannister
John Varela
(in article <6nhdt8F...@mid.individual.net>):
> Having travelled, I expect my name to be pronounced in varying different
> ways, and if I went to live permanently in a country where they found my
> name hard to pronounce, I think I would like to choose an easier name.
And in the case of Orientals who choose
pronounceable-by-English-speakers names, we're only talking about
nicknames. Jiahui Fu's name will still be Jiahui Fu, even if s/he
tells everyone to call him or her Joey. By the way, if Jiahui is
female, I vote for "Joy".
Mike Lyle
[...]
>
> We have a young Polish colleague whose first name is pronounced Alicia
> although spelled a little differently. Her surname is pronounceable
> after some practice but sounds nothing like the way it looks written
> down (not unusual with Polish names IME). This means that finding her
> in telephone lists for example can be difficult and referring
> students to her is often problematic, especially when they are from
> overseas and have enough trouble with my own name.
Add to the difficulties inseparable from English spelling the
slovenliness of so many British speakers. By this I don't mean regional
accents, which are a Good Thing, but the wanton murder of innocent
vowels and consonants. Even that is fair game, as long as the perps know
they're doing it, and make allowances for strangers: but they don't. I
mean, what on earth is a "fum manager"? Presumably the BBC is referring
to one who manages a fum; but what is a fum?
I've previously moaned about "Cheesedee", and the merry telephonic and
foam-book dance I had before discovering that my electricity supplier
was not, in fact, called "Empower", which seemed very like the damfool
names organisations now have to give themselves so you can't work out
what they do (my meter claimed to belong to the Midlands Electricity
Board, which didn't exist). I'm now with e-on, which makes a sort of
jokey sense to Einstein fans once they know what it means, but not
before.
--
Mike.
John Varela
(in article <TPCgWtYW...@fpwolff.demon.co.uk>):
> Compared with the apparent Chinese practice of claiming an entirely new
> name if the proper name is perceived as unpronounceable, why not just
> give out an approximation that would work well for all parties?
That's what the OP wanted: "My name is Jiahui Fu in my language. Please
give me a name sounds like that."
--
Evan Kirshenbaum
> We have a young Polish colleague whose first name is pronounced Alicia
> although spelled a little differently. Her surname is pronounceable
> after some practice but sounds nothing like the way it looks written
> down (not unusual with Polish names IME).
But Polish words are pretty much always pronounced as written. It's
just
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_language#Orthography
that the letters don't necessarily mean the same things they mean to
an English speaker.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |"You can't prove it *isn't* so!" is
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |as good as Q.E.D. in folk logic--as
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |though it were necessary to submit
|a piece of the moon to chemical
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com |analysis before you could be sure
(650)857-7572 |that it was not made of green
|cheese.
http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ | Bergen Evans
ray o'hara
> I recall a story about a call center in India where the employees were
> encouraged to take up American personae, including suitable names...one young
> woman was still in the process of trying to think up a good American name for
> herself so nobody on the phone would suspect she was Indian....
>
> Her actual name was "Anita"....r
>
We'd never notice the accent.
Paul Wolff
>On Fri, 7 Nov 2008 04:53:26 -0500, Paul Wolff wrote
>(in article <TPCgWtYW...@fpwolff.demon.co.uk>):
>
>> Compared with the apparent Chinese practice of claiming an entirely new
>> name if the proper name is perceived as unpronounceable, why not just
>> give out an approximation that would work well for all parties?
>
>That's what the OP wanted: "My name is Jiahui Fu in my language. Please
>give me a name sounds like that."
>
be for Jiahui Fu to state how Jiahui Fu sounds, so:
1. If 'Jiahui Fu' is in any respect inaccurate, we can give a more
useful Roman transliteration; or
2. If 'Jiahui Fu' sounds like 'Jiahui Fu', we can advise leaving it
alone.
--
Paul
CDB
<Nessie accent> / ,dZahwe'fu:/. But I'm pretty sure he wants a local
name, not just a respelling. Nobody's mentioned "Zowie" yet.
LFS
> LFS <la...@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> writes:
>
>> We have a young Polish colleague whose first name is pronounced Alicia
>> although spelled a little differently. Her surname is pronounceable
>> after some practice but sounds nothing like the way it looks written
>> down (not unusual with Polish names IME).
>
> But Polish words are pretty much always pronounced as written. It's
> just
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_language#Orthography
>
> that the letters don't necessarily mean the same things they mean to
> an English speaker.
>
Indeed, which is why I wrote "the way it looks written down" rather than
"the way it is written". Should I have added "to an English speaker"?
Chuck Riggs
wrote:
Does you use "Skitt" only in newsgroups, Alec?
--
Regards,
Chuck Riggs
Near Dublin, Ireland
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
>
>Originally, I didn't have a middle name. When I came to the USA, upon
>obtaining citizenship, I selected a new first name (Alec), demoting my
>original first name (Uldis) to the middle name slot. Our last name (it was
>a long and hyphenated one) was shortened by the entire family at that time.
>That made things somewhat easier for everyone.
All you need to do is to adopt a last name beginning with E and you would be a
total fit for this ng: AUE the AUE-er.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Paul Wolff
use, face to face, among certain people on a temporary basis. I can't
help that seeming a touch dishonest to me, being a deliberate deception
for unstated purposes, but if he wants to distance himself from his
'true' persona he may have good reason.
In that case, I suggest Georgie Foo. Or perhaps Xavier Foo. Any choice
of name should depend in part on the tone he wants to convey.
--
Paul
jerry_f...@yahoo.com
> Murray Arnow <ar...@iname.com> wrote
>
> >J. J. Lodder wrote:
> >>Murray Arnow wrote:
> >>> J. J. Lodder wrote:
> >>> >fjhx_x wrote:
>
> >>> >> I am studying in the U.S. I want a English name, but i cannot
> >>> >> find a good name. My name is Jiahui Fu in my language. Please give me
> >>> >> a name sounds like that. Thank u ~~
> >>> >Why?
> >>The Dutch will accept you as Murray Arnow,
> >>and will not insist on you calling youself
> >>Mark Aarnauw, for example,
>
> I am temperamentally aligned with Jan on this one. Perhaps Chinese
> people don't get so attached to their names as we do in lands that speak
> European languages. I wouldn't wish to adopt an alias when going
> abroad, although I can see some attractions.
>
>
>
> >It isn't a question of playing dumb; it is the unreasonable expectation
> >that Chinese names will not be problematic for English speakers. Chinese
> >is a tonal language which is not appreciated by many Westerners--this in
> >part explains why Wong, Huang and Ng are different spellings of the same
> >name.
I was hoping someone who knows Chinese would comment on this. Maybe
posting an ignorant attempt will get someone to correct me.
The tones are a problem, but Chinese sounds are hard to pronounce and
distinguish for English speakers even in words with the level tone.
Thus "river" is ho (Wade-Giles) or he (pinyin); the vowel doesn't
sound like either "e" or "o" to me and I can't tell it from the pinyin
monophthongs "i" and "u".
Apparently the reason Wong, Huang, and Ng are different spellings of
the same surname is not tones but dialects. Huang is Mandarin and
means "yellow" as above, Wong is Cantonese and Hakka, and Ng is
Taiwanese and Teochew. Wong is also Cantonese for Wang, and Ng is
also Cantonese for, naturally, Wu.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wong_(surname)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ng
with links to the dialects that I mentioned as if I knew what they
were.
> > Jiahu Fu is reasonable in his/her request. He/she has probably
> >already had problems with his/her name and wishes to be polite in trying
> >to accomodate to the Westerner's inability to say his/her name.
>
> >An anecdote may demonstrate the problem. On one of my jobs I was
> >requested to contact a female named Jo. I knew she was Chinese, but only
> >later did I learn she spelled her name Xuia; I spelled her name the way
> >it sounded to me.
As I understand it, "Xuia" isn't possible in either of the standard
romanization systems. The closest thing might be "Xuya" (two
syllables) in pinyin; the X would be something like our "sh" and the
u would be an umlaut-u.
> I don't really understand this. If her name was sounded "Jo", why did
> she try to spell it X-U-I-A (Ksooia) in Latin characters? "Dyo" would
> make more sense.
There's a common Chinese surname that I can't tell from "Jo", rendered
"Chou" in Wade-Giles and "Zhou" in pinyin.
> There seems to be a misapprehension of the Latin
> alphabet over there in the far east.
Well, that's another problem. Wade-Giles, though invented by Britons,
often doesn't suggest the right pronunciation to English speakers, and
pinyin, invented by Chinese, does so even less often. One reason is
that Chinese has sound distinctions that don't occur in English, such
as between pinyin "x" and "sh" (Wade-Giles "hs" and "sh").
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinyin> says almost every letter in
pinyin have a similar value in /some/ European language--x as in
Catalan, for instance. (They might have added Portuguese.) The
section on pronunciation makes amusing reading for an idle hour.
--
Jerry Friedman
Skitt
> "Skitt" wrote:
>> Originally, I didn't have a middle name. When I came to the USA,
>> upon obtaining citizenship, I selected a new first name (Alec),
>> demoting my original first name (Uldis) to the middle name slot.
>> Our last name (it was a long and hyphenated one) was shortened by
>> the entire family at that time. That made things somewhat easier for
>> everyone.
>
> Does you use "Skitt" only in newsgroups, Alec?
"Skitt" is also on my web page, but other than that, I don't use it.
--
Skitt (in SF Bay Area)
http://www.geocities.com/opus731/
Skitt
> "Skitt" wrote:
>> Originally, I didn't have a middle name. When I came to the USA,
>> upon obtaining citizenship, I selected a new first name (Alec),
>> demoting my original first name (Uldis) to the middle name slot.
>> Our last name (it was a long and hyphenated one) was shortened by
>> the entire family at that time. That made things somewhat easier for
>> everyone.
>
> All you need to do is to adopt a last name beginning with E and you
> would be a total fit for this ng: AUE the AUE-er.
There were some people who used my first two initals to call me. I think
that's what they were using ...
--
Skitt (AmE)
Paul Wolff
[interesting]
>
><http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinyin> says almost every letter in
>pinyin have a similar value in /some/ European language--x as in
>Catalan, for instance. (They might have added Portuguese.) The
>section on pronunciation makes amusing reading for an idle hour.
>
So it does. I see that there is method in the madness. If I could
digest it all, I'm sure I should pronounce it sensible. Though choosing
Catalan or Maltese as the standard for X is a little difficult to
forgive.
--
Paul
CDB
[local equivalent for Jiahui]
> I'm sure he or she wants a local name, and I assume only for limited
> use, face to face, among certain people on a temporary basis. I
> can't help that seeming a touch dishonest to me, being a deliberate
> deception for unstated purposes, but if he wants to distance
> himself from his 'true' persona he may have good reason.
The adoption of a local name may suggest itself to Chinese living
abroad because foreigners in China necessarily adopt Chinese names, at
least if they want to write them down. There is no commonly-used
system in Chinese for phonetic representation of foreign words, and
anything you write has to be represented by Chinese characters. There
are conventional equivalents for common Western names: I was told that
mine was Chali (cha2li3, "Consult-reason", a name so Puritan in its
style as to baffle suggestions of ickleness).
I have, but somewhere inaccessible, a list of such names, and was
going to search the web for yours as another example, but found this
interesting website, which will choose you a full Chinese name and
write it out in rather elegant characters on the basis of your Western
given and family names, your birth date, and the characteristics you
want the name to emphasize. If you were born in January, 1950, for
example, and wished to present yourself in terms of your personal
character and skill, your name would be Wu Pinli (wu1 pin2li3), family
name perhaps "Raven" (the "wu" character looks like the black bird
that is the "oo" of Oolong (Black Dragon) tea), with a banner beside
it; given name could be "Frequently-Courteous".
This is far beyond the crude phonetic resemblance of Chali, and may be
more fun. I note that the site recommends that, in serious cases, you
ask a native speaker to choose your Chinese name for you, to avoid the
commission of embarrassing puns (although they don't say that):
http://www.mandarintools.com/chinesename.html .
> In that case, I suggest Georgie Foo. Or perhaps Xavier Foo. Any
> choice of name should depend in part on the tone he wants to convey.
I like Xavier Fu. Travels better than Georgie, with a kind of
glamorous between-wars Eurasian flavour to it. Seriously, Jiahui, if
you're still reading, and if you're male (I don't think you've told us
yet) that wouldn't be a bad choice. It's well-known but not common,
and not any kind of diminutive. It's pronounced much like "saviour",
except that it begins with a "z" sound.
Paul Wolff
>Paul Wolff wrote:
>
>[local equivalent for Jiahui]
>
>abroad because foreigners in China necessarily adopt Chinese names, at
>least if they want to write them down. There is no commonly-used
>system in Chinese for phonetic representation of foreign words, and
>anything you write has to be represented by Chinese characters. There
>are conventional equivalents for common Western names: I was told that
>mine was Chali (cha2li3, "Consult-reason", a name so Puritan in its
>style as to baffle suggestions of ickleness).
Paul came back as Bao-lan. I can see the 'sounds like' at work here.
If that site is aligned with the culture of those who come here asking
for a European name, I can better understand, dare I say it, where they
are coming from.
The 'lan' element would upset Daniel, were it to be offered him.
>
>I have, but somewhere inaccessible, a list of such names, and was
>going to search the web for yours as another example, but found this
>interesting website, which will choose you a full Chinese name and
>write it out in rather elegant characters on the basis of your Western
>given and family names, your birth date, and the characteristics you
>want the name to emphasize. If you were born in January, 1950, for
>example, and wished to present yourself in terms of your personal
>character and skill, your name would be Wu Pinli (wu1 pin2li3), family
>name perhaps "Raven" (the "wu" character looks like the black bird
>that is the "oo" of Oolong (Black Dragon) tea), with a banner beside
>it; given name could be "Frequently-Courteous".
Wu will do. I was offered Wang, but I am quite happy with a remembrance
of George Formby and the Chinese laundry blues.
>
>This is far beyond the crude phonetic resemblance of Chali, and may be
>more fun. I note that the site recommends that, in serious cases, you
>ask a native speaker to choose your Chinese name for you, to avoid the
>commission of embarrassing puns (although they don't say that):
>http://www.mandarintools.com/chinesename.html .
>
>> In that case, I suggest Georgie Foo. Or perhaps Xavier Foo. Any
>> choice of name should depend in part on the tone he wants to convey.
>
>I like Xavier Fu. Travels better than Georgie, with a kind of
>glamorous between-wars Eurasian flavour to it. Seriously, Jiahui, if
>you're still reading, and if you're male (I don't think you've told us
>yet) that wouldn't be a bad choice. It's well-known but not common,
>and not any kind of diminutive. It's pronounced much like "saviour",
>except that it begins with a "z" sound.
>
Francis Xavier may be persona non grata in some eastern circles. I felt
a little mischievous suggesting the X-word.
--
Paul
Robert Bannister
> LFS <la...@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> writes:
>
>> We have a young Polish colleague whose first name is pronounced Alicia
>> although spelled a little differently. Her surname is pronounceable
>> after some practice but sounds nothing like the way it looks written
>> down (not unusual with Polish names IME).
>
> But Polish words are pretty much always pronounced as written. It's
> just
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_language#Orthography
>
> that the letters don't necessarily mean the same things they mean to
> an English speaker.
>
I don't think I've ever seen (or at least noticed) those letters with
the curly tails before. My problem is that I see a Polish word that I
can often understand from my knowledge of other Slav languages, but when
I hear it, it is often so nasalised, that it is unrecognisable.
--
Rob Bannister
John Varela
(in article <61SMG8+D...@fpwolff.demon.co.uk>):
> I'm sure he or she wants a local name, and I assume only for limited
> use, face to face, among certain people on a temporary basis. I can't
> help that seeming a touch dishonest to me, being a deliberate deception
> for unstated purposes, but if he wants to distance himself from his
> 'true' persona he may have good reason.
I don't see why a person with a Chinese name adopting a nickname that
is easily pronounced and spelled by Westerners is any more
reprehensible than it is for someone named Charles, which is a
perfectly respectable name, opting to take the nickname Chuck. Or
William going by Bill, or Elizabeth calling herself Liz, and so forth
and so on.
Paul Wolff
I wouldn't choose the word 'reprehensible' myself.
These examples are standard substitutes or derivatives that are well
known to be associated with the full name, and if they are adopted by or
given to a person with the original name, they exist alongside as
alternatives. I have the impression that in the Chinese to European
context, the westerners are being presented with a wholly fictitious
name that is offered as the, or at least a, genuine name of the
individual. It's like wearing a mask and never taking it off.
That's not at all the same as a nickname in the usual sense of that
word, though I suppose it qualifies as an eke name. A nickname is
primarily, maybe always, chosen by those others who wish to apply it.
None of the nicknames I've been given have been of my own choosing.
--
Paul
Robert Bannister
> John Varela <OLDl...@verizon.net> wrote
>> On Sat, 8 Nov 2008 09:38:59 -0500, Paul Wolff wrote
>> (in article <61SMG8+D...@fpwolff.demon.co.uk>):
>>
>>> I'm sure he or she wants a local name, and I assume only for limited
>>> use, face to face, among certain people on a temporary basis. I can't
>>> help that seeming a touch dishonest to me, being a deliberate deception
>>> for unstated purposes, but if he wants to distance himself from his
>>> 'true' persona he may have good reason.
>>
>> I don't see why a person with a Chinese name adopting a nickname that
>> is easily pronounced and spelled by Westerners is any more
>> reprehensible than it is for someone named Charles, which is a
>> perfectly respectable name, opting to take the nickname Chuck. Or
>> William going by Bill, or Elizabeth calling herself Liz, and so forth
>> and so on.
>
> I wouldn't choose the word 'reprehensible' myself.
>
> These examples are standard substitutes or derivatives that are well
> known to be associated with the full name, and if they are adopted by or
> given to a person with the original name, they exist alongside as
> alternatives.
I wonder just how well known some of them are and how many people really
associate derivatives like Betty, Molly, Nell, Rita, Jack, etc. with the
name they originally came from. And then there are others like Tel,
Bazza, et alia, that are only known in certain milieux.
--
Rob Bannister
CDB
[local equivalent for Jiahui]
>>> In that case, I suggest Georgie Foo. Or perhaps Xavier Foo. Any
>>> choice of name should depend in part on the tone he wants to
>>> convey.
>> I like Xavier Fu. Travels better than Georgie, with a kind of
>> glamorous between-wars Eurasian flavour to it. Seriously, Jiahui,
>> if you're still reading, and if you're male (I don't think you've
>> told us yet) that wouldn't be a bad choice. It's well-known but
>> not common, and not any kind of diminutive. It's pronounced much
>> like "saviour", except that it begins with a "z" sound.
> Francis Xavier may be persona non grata in some eastern circles. I
> felt a little mischievous suggesting the X-word.
One has heard stories about Goa; but let us say no more of that
painful episode, squire. And, while Jiahui might not be able to claim
Nemo Me in Poona Lacessit for his motto*, Providence appears to have
intervened before St. F-X could blot the escutcheon too badly among
the Chinese. Anyway, J-X would only have to reveal it to Americans,
no?
*As Flann O'Brien claimed Gandhi could. Checking to see how far the
city is from Goa (not far), I see that its name is pronounced as it is
now spelled: "Pune". Wonder if that was widely known among O'Brien's
readers.
John Varela
(in article <vCE5r1Mb...@fpwolff.demon.co.uk>):
> John Varela <OLDl...@verizon.net> wrote
>> On Sat, 8 Nov 2008 09:38:59 -0500, Paul Wolff wrote
>> (in article <61SMG8+D...@fpwolff.demon.co.uk>):
>>
>>> I'm sure he or she wants a local name, and I assume only for limited
>>> use, face to face, among certain people on a temporary basis. I can't
>>> help that seeming a touch dishonest to me, being a deliberate deception
>>> for unstated purposes, but if he wants to distance himself from his
>>> 'true' persona he may have good reason.
>>
>> I don't see why a person with a Chinese name adopting a nickname that
>> is easily pronounced and spelled by Westerners is any more
>> reprehensible than it is for someone named Charles, which is a
>> perfectly respectable name, opting to take the nickname Chuck. Or
>> William going by Bill, or Elizabeth calling herself Liz, and so forth
>> and so on.
>
> I wouldn't choose the word 'reprehensible' myself.
The word you did use was "dishonest".
> These examples are standard substitutes or derivatives that are well
> known to be associated with the full name, and if they are adopted by or
> given to a person with the original name, they exist alongside as
> alternatives. I have the impression that in the Chinese to European
> context, the westerners are being presented with a wholly fictitious
> name that is offered as the, or at least a, genuine name of the
> individual. It's like wearing a mask and never taking it off.
OK, what about Bubba, Sis, Butch, Moose, Rev, Doc, Whizzer, Bull, Prof,
Sonny, Junior, Slim, and any number of other nicknames that are
unrelated to the actual given name? Are they "dishonest"? My wife's
cousin married a man named Arthur H Jr. who spent his whole life
nicknamed "Bill" by his own choice. Was that "dishonest"? In the
small town where my wife grew up they called them as they saw them and
had no mercy: there was a man there nicknamed "Pig". That certainly
wasn't "dishonest".
Paul Wolff
need to restate my opinion on the substantive issue.
>OK, what about Bubba, Sis, Butch, Moose, Rev, Doc, Whizzer, Bull, Prof,
>Sonny, Junior, Slim, and any number of other nicknames that are
>unrelated to the actual given name? Are they "dishonest"?
Not in the normal course of events.
>My wife's
>cousin married a man named Arthur H Jr. who spent his whole life
>nicknamed "Bill" by his own choice. Was that "dishonest"?
No.
>In the
>small town where my wife grew up they called them as they saw them and
>had no mercy: there was a man there nicknamed "Pig". That certainly
>wasn't "dishonest".
I once had a very close friend who was given that nickname. He killed
himself. I don't know how much the one contributed to the other.
--
Paul
Mike Lyle
>> In the
>> small town where my wife grew up they called them as they saw them
>> and had no mercy: there was a man there nicknamed "Pig". That
>> certainly wasn't "dishonest".
>
> I once had a very close friend who was given that nickname. He killed
> himself. I don't know how much the one contributed to the other.
Small communities can be brutal. In the next village, when I lived in
Wales, was man known to all by the Welsh equivalent of "Pisser". I never
even knew his real name.
--
Mike.
HVS
"I built all the fences around here, but do they call me Taffy the
Fence-Builder? They do not. And I built all the roads and houses;
but do they call me Taffy the Road-Builder or Taffy the House-
Builder. They do not."
"You shag one poxy sheep..."
--
Cheers, Harvey
CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed
R H Draney
How about those nicknames used almost universally to refer to someone in the
third person, but *never* (if one values one's life) in the presence of their
object?...I'm thinking here of "Bugsy" Siegel, or to use an example from fiction
"Mad Dog" Tannen from "Back to the Future III"....r
--
"You got Schadenfreude on my Weltanschauung!"
"You got Weltanschauung in my Schadenfreude!"
Chuck Riggs
One of Joyce's characters in "Ulysses" is Pisser Burke. He plays a
part in the story from the very start:
http://lib.ru/DVOJS/ulysses.txt
Chuck Riggs
wrote:
The joke about "John the Bridge Builder" is similar:
http://rudepundit.blogspot.com/2004/02/once-youve-fucked-goat-as-rude-pundit.html
the Omrud
Very common (in my day at least) for school teachers. We had a (well
liked but firm) teacher who was known by all as Killer, although never
addressed as such. Except, the story goes, by a parent, one parents'
evening, who said "I'm very pleased to meet you, Mr Killer". Having
said that, one of my school mates wrote a ditty in the style of WS
Gilbert which played on the Killer moniker and which was published in
the school magazine, so he can't have minded.
There were loads of such nicknames: Horace, Freddy and Sid (which were
not their names), Fruit, Dead-eye Dick, Scratch and I'm sure many more
I've forgotten.
--
David
Chris Malcolm
We had a teacher we called Spondee, because he had two big feet. That
was back in the old days when teaching English involved old fashioned
things like literature, grammar, figures of speech, verse forms, and
so on. I'm not sure what they teach now in English classes. They seem
to have stopped teaching everything we used to call English.
I was called Ig, because I was a small person of no consequence, and
consequently was called it to boot to my face.
--
Chris Malcolm
R H Draney
>
>R H Draney wrote:
>>
>> How about those nicknames used almost universally to refer to someone in the
>> third person, but *never* (if one values one's life) in the presence of their
>>object?...I'm thinking here of "Bugsy" Siegel, or to use an example from fiction
>> "Mad Dog" Tannen from "Back to the Future III"....r
>
>Very common (in my day at least) for school teachers. We had a (well
>liked but firm) teacher who was known by all as Killer, although never
>addressed as such. Except, the story goes, by a parent, one parents'
>evening, who said "I'm very pleased to meet you, Mr Killer". Having
>said that, one of my school mates wrote a ditty in the style of WS
>Gilbert which played on the Killer moniker and which was published in
>the school magazine, so he can't have minded.
>
>There were loads of such nicknames: Horace, Freddy and Sid (which were
>not their names), Fruit, Dead-eye Dick, Scratch and I'm sure many more
>I've forgotten.
I can only remember one teacher who was known to students by a nickname (apart
from such obvious constructions as "Old Lady Oberg" or "Coach")...that was Mr
Rominger, called "Flick", memorably mainly for being completely bald (in a time
when nobody deliberately shaved his head)...I had Flick for Driver's Ed, and as
we drove past one landmark during a lesson, he asked us if we knew why it was
called "Rominger Field"...we admitted that we didn't know, and he explained
"because it doesn't have any grass on it"....
At a remove of a few decades, all these teachers seem a lot less
frightening....r
John Varela
(in article <kVURk.85390$E41....@text.news.virginmedia.com>):
> Very common (in my day at least) for school teachers.
The assistant headmaster at my boarding school had a habit of blinking
rapidly whenever he spoke. He was unaware that he did that until one
day he overheard a couple of boys strolling across the campus singing
"We'll hang stinky Blinky to a sour apple tree..." I guess at that
point he inquired who "Blinky" might be and someone told him, because
he stopped blinking and the nickname fell into disuse.
Another priest at that school was nicknamed "Piffle" because of his
fussbudgety manner.
Mike Lyle
> On Sun, 9 Nov 2008 21:57:09 -0000, "Mike Lyle"
> <mike_l...@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> Small communities can be brutal. In the next village, when I lived in
>> Wales, was man known to all by the Welsh equivalent of "Pisser". I
>> never even knew his real name.
>
> One of Joyce's characters in "Ulysses" is Pisser Burke. He plays a
> part in the story from the very start:
>
> http://lib.ru/DVOJS/ulysses.txt
Ah, thanks. I have a dead-tree edition, boarded it is in green, and what
colour better for your tome? and have read it one-and-twoish-halvesish
times, every white-gleaming page and crackling word by Heaven, but so
such was the overwhelmance of the whole thing entirely that I've quite
disremembered about Mr Burke.
--
Mike.
LFS
<applause>
I never did manage to finish "Finnegan's Wake", though. That and Gibbon
have to wait until I retire.
--
Laura
(emulate St. George for email)
Robin Bignall
>Mike Lyle filted:
>>
>>Paul Wolff wrote:
>>> John Varela <OLDl...@verizon.net> wrote
>>[...]
>>>> In the
>>>> small town where my wife grew up they called them as they saw them
>>>> and had no mercy: there was a man there nicknamed "Pig". That
>>>> certainly wasn't "dishonest".
>>>
>>> I once had a very close friend who was given that nickname. He killed
>>> himself. I don't know how much the one contributed to the other.
>>
>>Small communities can be brutal. In the next village, when I lived in
>>Wales, was man known to all by the Welsh equivalent of "Pisser". I never
>>even knew his real name.
>
>How about those nicknames used almost universally to refer to someone in the
>third person, but *never* (if one values one's life) in the presence of their
>object?...
We had a teacher who was an ex-gunnery sergeant major, a tough but
fair disciplinarian who taught PT and maths, and who was our form
teacher for the two final years. He was from London's East End and we
Midlands oiks hadn't had much experience of Cockney-ish accents. One
of his favourite expressions (it was a rough school) was "Come on, you
bleedin' swine". It sounded like "camorn" in our dialect, so that was
his nickname, but never, as you say, to his face.
--
Robin
(BrE)
Herts, England
musika
The ones I remember from school:
Alf - A.F. Gower - Headmaster
Rocket - Mr Stevenson
Cass - Mr Clay
The Med - Mr Medlicott
Jazzer - Mr Jones
Ma - Miss M.A. Roberts
There were better ones where I taught:
Bingo
Gappo (short for Gestapo)
Mole
Womble
Mini-Magnum
--
Ray
UK
Ian Jackson
<mUs...@excite.com> writes
>
>The ones I remember from school:
>Alf - A.F. Gower - Headmaster
>Rocket - Mr Stevenson
>Cass - Mr Clay
>The Med - Mr Medlicott
>Jazzer - Mr Jones
>Ma - Miss M.A. Roberts
>
>There were better ones where I taught:
>Bingo
>Gappo (short for Gestapo)
>Mole
>Womble
>Mini-Magnum
>
The Gaff (the gaffer) - Headmaster
Dusty - Mr Miller
Scoffer - Mr Schofield
Drac/Dracula - Mr Grieve
Although my school was in no way 'formal', it was a tradition for the
staff to wear academic gowns on special occasions. Dracula was the
exception. He also wore his to normal lessons and, with his gown
billowing, would sweep into the classroom like the Prince of Darkness
himself.
--
Ian
Skitt
> musika writes:
>> The ones I remember from school:
>> Alf - A.F. Gower - Headmaster
>> Rocket - Mr Stevenson
>> Cass - Mr Clay
>> The Med - Mr Medlicott
>> Jazzer - Mr Jones
>> Ma - Miss M.A. Roberts
>>
>> There were better ones where I taught:
>> Bingo
>> Gappo (short for Gestapo)
>> Mole
>> Womble
>> Mini-Magnum
>>
> Among our, we had:
> The Gaff (the gaffer) - Headmaster
> Dusty - Mr Miller
> Scoffer - Mr Schofield
> Drac/Dracula - Mr Grieve
> Although my school was in no way 'formal', it was a tradition for the
> staff to wear academic gowns on special occasions. Dracula was the
> exception. He also wore his to normal lessons and, with his gown
> billowing, would sweep into the classroom like the Prince of Darkness
> himself.
We had a Latin teacher like that in the Latvian high school in Germany. A
mousy kind of guy, though. He was teased to no end.
--
Skitt (AmE)
Robin Bignall
I am retired, and got to about halfway through vol 3 of Gibbon some
years ago. Then I declined and fell.
the Omrud
> Although my school was in no way 'formal', it was a tradition for the
> staff to wear academic gowns on special occasions. Dracula was the
> exception. He also wore his to normal lessons and, with his gown
> billowing, would sweep into the classroom like the Prince of Darkness
> himself.
Gowns were optional for teachers at my school, but many wore then for
various reasons. Some wore them for much of the year to keep warm.
Others used the fold at the bottom to store a board rubber which could
be twirled around and fetch you a nasty clip on the ear. Some used
their gowns to clean the blackboards.
Prefects wore gowns while on duty, which was a relief in the winter as
it allowed us to add an extra layer of clothing not otherwise permitted
by the rules.
--
David
Chuck Riggs
<la...@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> wrote:
I've tried to finish it several times, but can only manage a few dozen
pages, half-digested at best. The humongous words put my head in a
swim, but the plays on words that I am able to understand are
incredibly good. There isn't time for me to learn the languages Joyce
knew or to read the books he read, to enable me to understand FW in
full.
Amethyst Deceiver
mike_l...@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk says...
> LFS wrote:
> [...]
> >
> > We have a young Polish colleague whose first name is pronounced Alicia
> > although spelled a little differently. Her surname is pronounceable
> > after some practice but sounds nothing like the way it looks written
> > in telephone lists for example can be difficult and referring
> > students to her is often problematic, especially when they are from
> > overseas and have enough trouble with my own name.
> [...]
>
> Add to the difficulties inseparable from English spelling the
> slovenliness of so many British speakers. By this I don't mean regional
> accents, which are a Good Thing, but the wanton murder of innocent
> vowels and consonants.
And how is your full name pronounced? Don't you murder some of those
innocent vowels and consonents?
--
Linz
Wet Yorks via Cambridge, York, London and Watford
My accent may vary
Hatunen
You need "A Skeleton Key to Finnegans Wake: Unlocking James
Joyce's Masterwork" by Joseph Campbell.
http://www.amazon.com/Skeleton-Key-Finnegans-Wake-Masterwork/dp/1577314050
--
************* DAVE HATUNEN (hat...@cox.net) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
Mike Lyle
> In article <gf2egn$m8s$1...@registered.motzarella.org>,
> mike_l...@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk says...
>>
>> Add to the difficulties inseparable from English spelling the
>> slovenliness of so many British speakers. By this I don't mean
>> regional accents, which are a Good Thing, but the wanton murder of
>> innocent vowels and consonants.
>
> And how is your full name pronounced? Don't you murder some of those
> innocent vowels and consonents?
I don't think so, no. My name is pronounced in an unenterprisingly
standard way: I assume you're asking if I darken my "l" into "w", and as
far as I know I never do.
--
Mike.
Robin Bignall
Which "l", Mike? Do you Wyle away the time trying to pronounce Lywe?
John Varela
(in article <nuehh4h5g5vi54mnf...@4ax.com>):
> I am retired, and got to about halfway through vol 3 of Gibbon some
> years ago. Then I declined and fell.
I've never attempted Gibbon, but I have read all of Prescott's History
of the Conquest of Mexico and History of the Conquest of Peru. Does
that count?
Richard Bollard
wrote:
>On Sun, 09 Nov 2008 22:08:03 GMT, HVS <use...@REMOVETHISwhhvs.co.uk>
>wrote:
>
>>On 09 Nov 2008, Mike Lyle wrote
>>
>>> Paul Wolff wrote:
>>>> John Varela <OLDl...@verizon.net> wrote
>>> [...]
>>>>> In the
>>>>> small town where my wife grew up they called them as they saw
>>>>> them and had no mercy: there was a man there nicknamed "Pig".
>>>>> That certainly wasn't "dishonest".
>>>>
>>>> I once had a very close friend who was given that nickname. He
>>>> killed himself. I don't know how much the one contributed to
>>>> the other.
>>>
>>> Small communities can be brutal. In the next village, when I
>>> lived in Wales, was man known to all by the Welsh equivalent of
>>> "Pisser". I never even knew his real name.
>>
>>"I built all the fences around here, but do they call me Taffy the
>>Fence-Builder? They do not. And I built all the roads and houses;
>>but do they call me Taffy the Road-Builder or Taffy the House-
>>Builder. They do not."
>>
>>"You shag one poxy sheep..."
>
>The joke about "John the Bridge Builder" is similar:
I heard it in the "Stavros the Boat Builder" form.
"You suck one little cock ..."
--
Richard Bollard
Canberra Australia
To email, I'm at AMT not spAMT.